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Crime Wave Thread - Where we discuss the national increase in crime during the Biden Administration (1 Viewer)

jon_mx said:
 As usual snarky, hypocritical and pathetic.  It was based on numerous facts.

1.  Study shows increase in crime was not s result of increases in gun sales.

2.  Data which showed record gun sales spiking immediately after the unrest and riots following the shooting of George Floyd.

3.  Violent crime is increasing but not gun violence.  

I said nothing to you, but as usual you come up with your double-barrelled baseless snark.  
Click to expand...
The same researchers from UC Davis show that  the rise in unemployment was a big factor in the "increases in firearm violence and homicide, but not other crime. Additional research is needed on mechanisms of association, generalizability, and modifying factors."

And the article you cited states "Increases in purchasing may have contributed to additional firearm injuries from domestic violence in April and May."

Lots of caveats in this type of research.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35084658/

 
jon_mx said:
It is not the judges. It is the lack of prosecution.   That is the real issue.  
Click to expand...
That’s a different argument, and I don’t think it’s one you can pin on liberal idealism (which is what the previous argument was attempting to do.) 

 
SoBeDad said:
The same researchers from UC Davis show that  the rise in unemployment was a big factor in the "increases in firearm violence and homicide, but not other crime. Additional research is needed on mechanisms of association, generalizability, and modifying factors."

And the article you cited states "Increases in purchasing may have contributed to additional firearm injuries from domestic violence in April and May."

Lots of caveats in this type of research.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35084658/
Click to expand...


Sure, but the major conclusion was that gun purchases were NOT the cause. 

 
timschochet said:
Lol that’s like saying his yards per carry is below average when you take away the 50 yard runs. 
 

I don’t think you should exclude murders. 
Click to expand...


Your analogies are never good.   If you insist on a running back analogy  it woukd be your yardage goes down but your TDs go up.  There is nothing I am ignoring.  If you look at the whole picture,  violent crimes committed with guns are going down, while violent crimes are spiking up rapidly.  

 
jon_mx said:
Sure, but the major conclusion was that gun purchases were NOT the cause. 
Click to expand...
Correct, lol at liberals trying to blame the crime epidemic on guns...such a joke.  Is this what CNN is spewing these days.

Let the red wave commence, perhaps they'll figure it out in 2024 when they get their asses handed to them.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
That’s a different argument, and I don’t think it’s one you can pin on liberal idealism (which is what the previous argument was attempting to do.) 
Click to expand...
It is most certainly the judges.  It is amazing how many judges ignore parole violations and choose light sentences for repeat offenders with a history of violence.   Violent criminals rarely change their ways.   Most have little education and have never worked real jobs.   They only know that way of life.  

You need to dig into cases to see what is going on.   Unfortunately, I have had a front row seat over the last 20 years and everyone watching saw this coming.   The crime wave is not going away since federal judges are appointed for life.

 
DocHolliday said:
It is most certainly the judges.  It is amazing how many judges ignore parole violations and choose light sentences for repeat offenders with a history of violence.   Violent criminals rarely change their ways.   Most have little education and have never worked real jobs.   They only know that way of life.  

You need to dig into cases to see what is going on.   Unfortunately, I have had a front row seat over the last 20 years and everyone watching saw this coming.   The crime wave is not going away since federal judges are appointed for life.
Click to expand...
You didn’t answer my point about mandatory minimums. If most violent crimes have mandatory minimum sentences then how can judges be at fault here? 

 
I don't pin increases in crime on Biden.  This is a local level issue.  I speak on my experience only here in Philly.  The local leadership, from the Mayor to the DA to the Police Commissioner have instituted policies that are soft on crime and allow criminals to be released back into society often times without charges only to reoffend usually with more serious crimes.

It reminds me of the movie Colors.  Sean Penn says he wants to bust a kid for small time drug possession so that when he does something more serious later it isn't a first offense.  Robert Duvall's character is against this.  He wants to befriend the kids to get them to trust them to try and reform them.  In the end Duvall gets killed by the same people he was trying to help.  

 
Snotbubbles said:
I don't pin increases in crime on Biden.  This is a local level issue.  I speak on my experience only here in Philly.  The local leadership, from the Mayor to the DA to the Police Commissioner have instituted policies that are soft on crime and allow criminals to be released back into society often times without charges only to reoffend usually with more serious crimes.

It reminds me of the movie Colors.  Sean Penn says he wants to bust a kid for small time drug possession so that when he does something more serious later it isn't a first offense.  Robert Duvall's character is against this.  He wants to befriend the kids to get them to trust them to try and reform them.  In the end Duvall gets killed by the same people he was trying to help.  
Click to expand...
I think you make reasonable points here. 
 

But if there’s anything I detest about modern day political arguments, it’s the constant “either-or” nature of it. I don’t want a choice between rules that are too liberal towards criminals and rules that are too stringent, especially against minorities. I want reasonable,  thoughtful  laws and sentencing, appropriately tough when they need to be, appropriately lenient when they need to be. I don’t want to be forced to choose between fascism and anarchy. 

 
timschochet said:
I think you make reasonable points here. 
 

But if there’s anything I detest about modern day political arguments, it’s the constant “either-or” nature of it. I don’t want a choice between rules that are too liberal towards criminals and rules that are too stringent, especially against minorities. I want reasonable,  thoughtful  laws and sentencing, appropriately tough when they need to be, appropriately lenient when they need to be. I don’t want to be forced to choose between fascism and anarchy. 
Click to expand...


Your socioeconomic status is a HUGE determiner of the type of outcome you will receive in the criminal justice process.  

 
Let's say a man steals a car in Waukesha WI. Then he gets caught. He is put in jail in Waukesha County. A Milwaukee judge has already issued a bench warrant for him for something prior so he is extradited to Milwaukee. He is let out the next day on signature bond after making a MKE court appearance and then steals another car the next day. 

Who is at fault here?

1. White people

2. DA

3. Judge

4. Institutional mumbo jumbo

5. Republicans

6. Soft on crime policies

7. Kia

8. Guns

9. No fault, they probably had insurance.

 
Crime along with inflation is the Dems biggest weak point as elections ramp up. They should be hammered on crime in particular. I’m  too dumb to understand inflation but I think this is largely due to factors that aren’t necessarily politicians fault That doesn’t mean that won’t and shouldn’t be a political hammer but we’d have this issue regardless of who is in there I believe.

Crime however is impacting many, is a more tangible issue to address, is easily attachable to Dems. Republicans (or any non-incumbent really) should be able to make a pretty compelling argument on the need to address this and how the person in charge of your city has failed here.

This would be my number one issue if I were running a campaign. Hit the inflation talk and boilerplate political talking points in more rural areas.

 
parasaurolophus said:
Let's say a man steals a car in Waukesha WI. Then he gets caught. He is put in jail in Waukesha County. A Milwaukee judge has already issued a bench warrant for him for something prior so he is extradited to Milwaukee. He is let out the next day on signature bond after making a MKE court appearance and then steals another car the next day. 

Who is at fault here?

1. White people

2. DA

3. Judge

4. Institutional mumbo jumbo

5. Republicans

6. Soft on crime policies

7. Kia

8. Guns

9. No fault, they probably had insurance.
Click to expand...
In your scenario it would be #4. Because after the court appearance in Milwaukee the prisoner should have been sent back to Waukesha County lockup to complete that sentence. If he/she needs to appear again in Milwaukee during their remaining stay in Waukesha transportation will be provided once again.

In reality though, your scenario isn't plausible. If someone was transferred from County lockup to a court appearance in another jurisdiction the accused would appear in shackles, and likely County scrubs, having been in the custody of sheriff's during the entirety of the transfer. The judge would not have allowed a release on bond. The accused would simply be given the next date to appear, some paperwork, and then transferred back to the County facility. 

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
In your scenario it would be #4. Because after the court appearance in Milwaukee the prisoner should have been sent back to Waukesha County lockup to complete that sentence. If he/she needs to appear again in Milwaukee during their remaining stay in Waukesha transportation will be provided once again.

In reality though, your scenario isn't plausible. If someone was transferred from County lockup to a court appearance in another jurisdiction the accused would appear in shackles, and likely County scrubs, having been in the custody of sheriff's during the entirety of the transfer. The judge would not have allowed a release on bond. The accused would simply be given the next date to appear, some paperwork, and then transferred back to the County facility. 
Click to expand...
Sounds like you have it all figured out. I will be sure to pass on to my buddy that his car wasn't stolen then because the guy was still in jail because no way would somebody like that be let out. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
Sounds like you have it all figured out. I will be sure to pass on to my buddy that his car wasn't stolen then because the guy was still in jail because no way would somebody like that be let out. 
Click to expand...
Well, if that's true, which I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, then the fault lies entirely with option number 5. Republicans. People like that. You know, rule of law types. Because obviously the rule of law was followed in that specific case. Sorry about his car.

 
Amazon is temporarily relocating employees from its downtown Seattle office, following a rise in violent crime

"The office is at 300 Pine Street, about a half-mile from its main headquarters on Seventh Avenue. 

As reported by KOMO News, shootings, stabbings, and other crimes are increasing in the area.

Michael del Bianco, a 15-year-old boy, was shot and killed at the intersection where Amazon's office is located on March 2, per Newsweek. 

According to information from the Seattle Police Department's Twitter account, there have been at least three shootings, two stabbings, and one carjacking in the area since February 21."

 
Max Power said:
I think Crowder has a good idea one this.  Statistically the  largest common trait for if a person that goes to jail is that they came from a single parent household.

These homes offer less structure and lead to a higher % of future adults committing crimes.  The US should do more to incentivize men staying in the picture as dads, not promoting a culture where the state acts at the household's bread winners.

I know this would be a very heavy lift, but if we won't address a big part of the core issue, we're just band-aid fixing things. 
Click to expand...
One very good way to reduce the number of single parent households would be to increase access to safe, easy, legal abortions.

 
FairWarning said:
That isn’t the solution, and I’m for the woman's choice.  

I watched the documentary A Week in Watts last night,  a good portrait of life in one of the worst neighborhoods in the US.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5916158/
Click to expand...
No, of course, the pro-life movement isn't the only factor driving crime increases and likely not even a significant one.  However, making abortions safe, easy, legal, and cheap would certainly reduce the future number of single parent households.  Just saying that if one believes that the primary factor driving crime is an increased incidence of single parent households, one should presumably be for enacting more forceful pro-choice legislation.

 
Rich Conway said:
No, of course, the pro-life movement isn't the only factor driving crime increases and likely not even a significant one.  However, making abortions safe, easy, legal, and cheap would certainly reduce the future number of single parent households.  Just saying that if one believes that the primary factor driving crime is an increased incidence of single parent households, one should presumably be for enacting more forceful pro-choice legislation.
Click to expand...
The recent events from the right of trying to repeal abortion is odd.  

 
justthenews.com

Seven days of mayhem: Random killings expose lethality of Democrat crime policies

More than three-quarters of U.S. voters said violent crime is a major problem in a poll taken one month from Election Day.
justthenews.com justthenews.com

Seven days of mayhem: Random killings expose lethality of Democrat crime policies​

More than three-quarters of U.S. voters said violent crime is a major problem in a poll taken one month from Election Day.

A college dad shot by two homeless men high on drugs and long sought by police. An illegal migrant who stabbed eight on the Las Vegas strip. An abused wife slaughtered after her husband was released without cash bail.

In a single week, the Democrats' permissive approach to law enforcement — insecure borders, cashless bail and exploding homelessness — left a lethal wake of innocent victims that shook communities coast to coast and invigorated a political debate less than 30 days from mid-term elections.

"Policymakers have decided that law-abiding citizens are secondary and that those who commit crimes are afforded protections that embolden more crime," Dutchess County Executive Marcus Molinaro in New York told Fox News earlier this week.

Molinaro was reacting to the tragic shooting death of Paul Kutz, a 53-year-old college dad who was gunned down in a suburban New York hotel while visiting his son during family weekend at Marist College.

The suspects were two homeless men wanted in connection with other crimes who were smoking a PCP-like substance and had bomb-making materials in their room, police have said,

New York has been ground zero for liberals' experimentation with cashless bail, and the toll exacted by repeat offenders is mounting daily.

U.S. Rep. Lee Zeldin, the GOP nominee for governor of New York, has focused relentlessly on the killing last week of 40-year-old Keaira Bennefield, who was shot dead in front of her children, while wearing a bulletproof vest and fearing for her life from her husband.

Her husband, Adam Bennefield, is suspected of killing her after he was released on cashless bail on five different charges, including assault, harassment, and menacing — none of which are bail-eligible.

"There are too many pro-criminal laws getting passed right now up in Albany," an exasperated Zeldin said last week. "When do we say it's time to start sticking up for law-abiding New Yorkers instead of sticking up for criminals?"

The crime wave came literally to Zeldin's doorstep on Sunday, when two men were shot in front of his Long Island house with his daughters inside.

The men collapsed by Zeldin's porch as the congressman was headed to a Columbus Day event in the Bronx, making his home a crime scene.

The daughters "were at the kitchen table doing homework," Zeldin said. "One of the bullets landed just 30 feet from them. They acted very swiftly and smartly in response."
Click to expand...

Halfway across the country, the iconic Las Vegas Strip was turned into a bloody killing field Thursday when a Guatemalan man illegally in the United States knifed eight victims, killing two, including a showgirl, police said.


The episode stunned tourists and street entertainers alike, some of whom said they were afraid to go back on the streets.

"We're all really distraught — it happened on one of the safer locations on the Strip and at 11 o'clock in the morning," showgirl Mikayla Yegge told the New York Post.

"We don't feel safe being out there," she added. "We don't know what we're going to do next or how we are going to continue to make money."

Former President Donald Trump has encouraged Republicans to make fighting crime a centerpiece of their bid to win back Congress over the final month of the election.
Click to expand...
 

City of St. Louis threatens to sue Kia, Hyundai over car thefts​

ST. LOUIS – Car thefts have jumped in the City of St. Louis in 2022, driven by a surge in the number of Kia and Hyundai vehicles stolen. Earlier this month, the city counselor’s office sent letters to Kia and Hyundai chastizing the car manufacturers for failing to install an engine immobilizer in many of their vehicles. The city is demanding action.

St. Louis Mayor Tishaura Jones and Director of Public Safety Dan Isom signed off on the letter, which says the companies are contributing to a public nuisance in the city.

Recent theft victims said the city needs to do its part, too.

College sophomore, Ben Siemer, has a new feature on his new 2023 Hyundai Elantra: a steering wheel lock. He wishes he had it three weeks ago.

“My mom got up at 6 a.m., woke me up, and said my car was gone. It wasn’t a good morning,” Siemer said.

That stolen car ended up crashed and totaled. The new Elantra is the replacement.

Jim Hayes had his 2013 Kia Optima stolen a few blocks from where Siemer’s was taken in south St. Louis.

“This is ridiculous. What’s the city coming to,” Hayes said.

His car was found but is still awaiting ignition repairs nearly one month after the crime.

City officials say Kia and Hyundai vehicles are way too easy to steal, and it’s no secret how to do it. Thieves post the technique on social media. They break away the lower cover of the steering column, exposing a slot. They use the end of a USB to slide into the slot and use it as a makeshift key.

Kia and Hyundai key-start vehicles (Kia model years 2011-2021/Hyundai years 2016-2021) lack common technology which uses “smart keys” synced to an engine immobilizer to prevent theft. An engine immobilizer is a security device designed to prevent hot wiring. It prevents the engine from turning and starting unless the correct key is used. The technology itself was invented and patented in 1919 but did not become widespread until the early 21st century.

St. Louis City Counselor Sheena Hamilton, the city’s top legal officer, wrote Kia and Hyundai on August 19, saying St. Louis Police have reported more than 1,500 thefts or attempted thefts of Kia and Hyundai vehicles so far this year, with 356 coming in the first 13 days of August, which accounts for nearly 77% of all vehicles stolen over that timeframe.

“The (City of St. Louis) demands that Kia and Hyundai mitigate the defective conditions providing thieves the ability to steal cars, destroy property, endanger city drivers and themselves, and in some cases committing very violent crimes,” said Dan Isom, Director of Public Safety for the City of St. Louis.

Theft victims applaud the letter but say the city also needs to crack down on crime.
Click to expand...
 
Max Power said:

City of St. Louis threatens to sue Kia, Hyundai over car thefts​

ST. LOUIS – Car thefts have jumped in the City of St. Louis in 2022, driven by a surge in the number of Kia and Hyundai vehicles stolen. Earlier this month, the city counselor’s office sent letters to Kia and Hyundai chastizing the car manufacturers for failing to install an engine immobilizer in many of their vehicles. The city is demanding action.

St. Louis Mayor Tishaura Jones and Director of Public Safety Dan Isom signed off on the letter, which says the companies are contributing to a public nuisance in the city.

Recent theft victims said the city needs to do its part, too.

College sophomore, Ben Siemer, has a new feature on his new 2023 Hyundai Elantra: a steering wheel lock. He wishes he had it three weeks ago.

“My mom got up at 6 a.m., woke me up, and said my car was gone. It wasn’t a good morning,” Siemer said.

That stolen car ended up crashed and totaled. The new Elantra is the replacement.

Jim Hayes had his 2013 Kia Optima stolen a few blocks from where Siemer’s was taken in south St. Louis.

“This is ridiculous. What’s the city coming to,” Hayes said.

His car was found but is still awaiting ignition repairs nearly one month after the crime.

City officials say Kia and Hyundai vehicles are way too easy to steal, and it’s no secret how to do it. Thieves post the technique on social media. They break away the lower cover of the steering column, exposing a slot. They use the end of a USB to slide into the slot and use it as a makeshift key.

Kia and Hyundai key-start vehicles (Kia model years 2011-2021/Hyundai years 2016-2021) lack common technology which uses “smart keys” synced to an engine immobilizer to prevent theft. An engine immobilizer is a security device designed to prevent hot wiring. It prevents the engine from turning and starting unless the correct key is used. The technology itself was invented and patented in 1919 but did not become widespread until the early 21st century.

St. Louis City Counselor Sheena Hamilton, the city’s top legal officer, wrote Kia and Hyundai on August 19, saying St. Louis Police have reported more than 1,500 thefts or attempted thefts of Kia and Hyundai vehicles so far this year, with 356 coming in the first 13 days of August, which accounts for nearly 77% of all vehicles stolen over that timeframe.

“The (City of St. Louis) demands that Kia and Hyundai mitigate the defective conditions providing thieves the ability to steal cars, destroy property, endanger city drivers and themselves, and in some cases committing very violent crimes,” said Dan Isom, Director of Public Safety for the City of St. Louis.

Theft victims applaud the letter but say the city also needs to crack down on crime.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
How crazy is it to blame the car company for theft? If consumers want to buy easy-to-steal cars, that’s on them….
 
Alex P Keaton said:
Max Power said:

City of St. Louis threatens to sue Kia, Hyundai over car thefts​

ST. LOUIS – Car thefts have jumped in the City of St. Louis in 2022, driven by a surge in the number of Kia and Hyundai vehicles stolen. Earlier this month, the city counselor’s office sent letters to Kia and Hyundai chastizing the car manufacturers for failing to install an engine immobilizer in many of their vehicles. The city is demanding action.

St. Louis Mayor Tishaura Jones and Director of Public Safety Dan Isom signed off on the letter, which says the companies are contributing to a public nuisance in the city.

Recent theft victims said the city needs to do its part, too.

College sophomore, Ben Siemer, has a new feature on his new 2023 Hyundai Elantra: a steering wheel lock. He wishes he had it three weeks ago.

“My mom got up at 6 a.m., woke me up, and said my car was gone. It wasn’t a good morning,” Siemer said.

That stolen car ended up crashed and totaled. The new Elantra is the replacement.

Jim Hayes had his 2013 Kia Optima stolen a few blocks from where Siemer’s was taken in south St. Louis.

“This is ridiculous. What’s the city coming to,” Hayes said.

His car was found but is still awaiting ignition repairs nearly one month after the crime.

City officials say Kia and Hyundai vehicles are way too easy to steal, and it’s no secret how to do it. Thieves post the technique on social media. They break away the lower cover of the steering column, exposing a slot. They use the end of a USB to slide into the slot and use it as a makeshift key.

Kia and Hyundai key-start vehicles (Kia model years 2011-2021/Hyundai years 2016-2021) lack common technology which uses “smart keys” synced to an engine immobilizer to prevent theft. An engine immobilizer is a security device designed to prevent hot wiring. It prevents the engine from turning and starting unless the correct key is used. The technology itself was invented and patented in 1919 but did not become widespread until the early 21st century.

St. Louis City Counselor Sheena Hamilton, the city’s top legal officer, wrote Kia and Hyundai on August 19, saying St. Louis Police have reported more than 1,500 thefts or attempted thefts of Kia and Hyundai vehicles so far this year, with 356 coming in the first 13 days of August, which accounts for nearly 77% of all vehicles stolen over that timeframe.

“The (City of St. Louis) demands that Kia and Hyundai mitigate the defective conditions providing thieves the ability to steal cars, destroy property, endanger city drivers and themselves, and in some cases committing very violent crimes,” said Dan Isom, Director of Public Safety for the City of St. Louis.

Theft victims applaud the letter but say the city also needs to crack down on crime.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
How crazy is it to blame the car company for theft? If consumers want to buy easy-to-steal cars, that’s on them….
Click to expand...
Saw that too and thought it was an Onion article at first. I really did. I mean doesn't it SEEM like something the Onion would write? This is just so stupid it's funny...Also not really.
 
Max Power said:
Apparently it was a TikTok Challenge to steal a Kia. I blame TikTok.

www.wxyz.com

Kia and Hyundai offer fixes to stop TikTok challenge thefts

A social media challenge that's led to the theft of hundreds of Kia and Hyundai vehicles has prompted the automakers to release a repair kit that should stop teens from stealing them.
www.wxyz.com www.wxyz.com
Click to expand...
$500 for the kit and installation. ****ers. My kid has one of these affected vehicles and put in a kill switch to the fuel pump.
 
Alex P Keaton said:
Max Power said:

City of St. Louis threatens to sue Kia, Hyundai over car thefts​

ST. LOUIS – Car thefts have jumped in the City of St. Louis in 2022, driven by a surge in the number of Kia and Hyundai vehicles stolen. Earlier this month, the city counselor’s office sent letters to Kia and Hyundai chastizing the car manufacturers for failing to install an engine immobilizer in many of their vehicles. The city is demanding action.

St. Louis Mayor Tishaura Jones and Director of Public Safety Dan Isom signed off on the letter, which says the companies are contributing to a public nuisance in the city.

Recent theft victims said the city needs to do its part, too.

College sophomore, Ben Siemer, has a new feature on his new 2023 Hyundai Elantra: a steering wheel lock. He wishes he had it three weeks ago.

“My mom got up at 6 a.m., woke me up, and said my car was gone. It wasn’t a good morning,” Siemer said.

That stolen car ended up crashed and totaled. The new Elantra is the replacement.

Jim Hayes had his 2013 Kia Optima stolen a few blocks from where Siemer’s was taken in south St. Louis.

“This is ridiculous. What’s the city coming to,” Hayes said.

His car was found but is still awaiting ignition repairs nearly one month after the crime.

City officials say Kia and Hyundai vehicles are way too easy to steal, and it’s no secret how to do it. Thieves post the technique on social media. They break away the lower cover of the steering column, exposing a slot. They use the end of a USB to slide into the slot and use it as a makeshift key.

Kia and Hyundai key-start vehicles (Kia model years 2011-2021/Hyundai years 2016-2021) lack common technology which uses “smart keys” synced to an engine immobilizer to prevent theft. An engine immobilizer is a security device designed to prevent hot wiring. It prevents the engine from turning and starting unless the correct key is used. The technology itself was invented and patented in 1919 but did not become widespread until the early 21st century.

St. Louis City Counselor Sheena Hamilton, the city’s top legal officer, wrote Kia and Hyundai on August 19, saying St. Louis Police have reported more than 1,500 thefts or attempted thefts of Kia and Hyundai vehicles so far this year, with 356 coming in the first 13 days of August, which accounts for nearly 77% of all vehicles stolen over that timeframe.

“The (City of St. Louis) demands that Kia and Hyundai mitigate the defective conditions providing thieves the ability to steal cars, destroy property, endanger city drivers and themselves, and in some cases committing very violent crimes,” said Dan Isom, Director of Public Safety for the City of St. Louis.

Theft victims applaud the letter but say the city also needs to crack down on crime.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
How crazy is it to blame the car company for theft? If consumers want to buy easy-to-steal cars, that’s on them….
Click to expand...
I remember when it became cool in WI for kids to start stealing cars from dealerships. Some cities passed laws that made it illegal to not have all the keys in a safe.

They fined car dealerships because their cars got stolen and let the thiefs out of jail the next day.
 
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