Crime Wave Thread - Where we discuss the national increase in crime during the Biden Administration (1 Viewer)

[Stealthycat]

The “defund police” message was a horrible one, a disaster politically, and I and many others made that point early on. But I don’t know how much actual defunding of police has taken place. I suspect not much, though it’s clearly to the advantage of conservatives to overemphasis the amount that actually has taken place. 

lots of links out there

https://americanpoliceofficersalliance.com/cities-that-defunded-police/

 

[Stealthycat]

You said Dems were "encouraging criminals."  Now you've changed it to "not discouraging criminals enough."  That seems different to me.

I didn't say enough - and to me, reversing many of the things that keep criminals at bay IS encouraging = giving someone support or confidence; supportive.

The measures I mentioned is supporting criminals staying on the streets, doing what criminals do

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I think unfortunately conservatives and liberals have a tendency to talk past each other and place blame on the other side vs. arriving at a comprehensive solution, which I would expect would borrow some stuff from both "sides".

The following statements seem fairly indisputable to me:

• People being largely rational,
  

Not sure I agree with this.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I didn't say enough - and to me, reversing many of the things that keep criminals at bay IS encouraging = giving someone support or confidence; supportive.

The measures I mentioned is supporting criminals staying on the streets, doing what criminals do

I think all people accused of any crime should be immediately executed.  Anyone that thinks punishment should be less than that is encouraging criminals.

 

[The Commish]

I think all people accused of any crime should be immediately executed.  Anyone that thinks punishment should be less than that is encouraging criminals.

Well, except those that already had a death wish, but otherwise spot on  

 

[TripItUp]

I think unfortunately conservatives and liberals have a tendency to talk past each other and place blame on the other side vs. arriving at a comprehensive solution, which I would expect would borrow some stuff from both "sides".

The following statements seem fairly indisputable to me:

• There is a cycle through which people are put through the criminal justice system for minor offenses that leads to community breakdown and loss of opportunity
  

no dispute that this occurs , but how prevalent is it

People being largely rational, if you respond to this first observation by greatly reducing the cost of major crimes in addition to minor crimes, you will get more major crimes and make communities less safe

correct

Police misconduct has been allowed to fester/be swept under the rug, and this leads to loss of trust in the police

There may be some truth to this, but it is not as prevalent as the liberal media may lead you to believe

Tarring the police with a broad brush (e.g., ACAB) leads to more animosity between the police and their respective communities and will make the problems worse

correct, see above

The ultimate solution would be to fix broken families, broken schools, and provide opportunity to blighted areas, but how to even begin to do this, and what government's role should be, is the Step 2 in the underpants gnome plan

It's a very complex problem that ignorant movements such as "defund the police" only make worse

 

[Dr_Zaius]

Not sure I agree with this.

Ha!  Yeah, I figured someone would go after that softball.

Seriously though, I think even the most dimwitted are more than capable of determining what is in their own short term interest and acting accordingly.  It's when you get into medium and long term planning that a lot of people get tripped up.

 

[Stealthycat]

I think all people accused of any crime should be immediately executed.  Anyone that thinks punishment should be less than that is encouraging criminals.

I think that's a little harsh but violent criminals I could get behind a vastly faster execution system than we have

https://www.foxnews.com/us/phoenix-police-several-officers-1-person-injured-as-barricade-situation-ongoing-inside-home

war on police is an offshoot of what Democrats have been encouraging for years - blame police, hate police, riots, looting .... and this kind of thing? its encouraged behavior IMO

 

[Dr_Zaius]

I think that's a little harsh but violent criminals I could get behind a vastly faster execution system than we have

I'm not qualified to know what the "right" amount of time is for a state execution to take, but if you read up on Leon Czolgosz, the anarchist assassin who killed President McKinley, one of the things that's striking to a modern reader is the timeline : Czolgosz shot McKinley on September 6th, McKinley died on September 14th, the trial started September 23rd and lasted 8 hours, and Czolgosz was executed on October 29th.  Granted, they had 28 eyewitnesses and the defendant was completely unremorseful, but for better or worse I can't imagine something happening with such speed today.  

 

[Stealthycat]

Czolgosz shot McKinley on September 6th, McKinley died on September 14th, the trial started September 23rd and lasted 8 hours, and Czolgosz was executed on October 29th.  Granted, they had 28 eyewitnesses and the defendant was completely unremorseful, but for better or worse I can't imagine something happening with such speed today.  

Czolgosz  doing the same today would live 15-20 years and lawyers would make millions and it'd cost taxpayers millions before they finally executed 

and that's a problem and a disgrace in the USA today IMO

 

[cosjobs]

‘Alt-Right Armory’ Podcaster Faces Charges of Possessing Machine Guns

The podcaster, Joseph Paul Berger, and his father, Joseph Raymond Berger, had 13 fully automatic machine guns and 12 gun silencers that were illegally imported into the United States, officials said.

thanks a lot, Biden

 

[sho nuff]

I think that's a little harsh but violent criminals I could get behind a vastly faster execution system than we have

https://www.foxnews.com/us/phoenix-police-several-officers-1-person-injured-as-barricade-situation-ongoing-inside-home

war on police is an offshoot of what Democrats have been encouraging for years - blame police, hate police, riots, looting .... and this kind of thing? its encouraged behavior IMO

First...how about no executions. Capital punishment is little more than vengeance carried out by the state.  There is a reason most first world countries don't use it anymore.  Seriously...look at who still has a death penalty in this world...is that the company you want to keep?

Second...no, war on police is not something even close to what Democrats have said or encouraged.  Holding police accountable is not the same as the bolded.  Nowhere is a war on police encouraged from the left at this time.  Yes...Im sure you can find some radicals that may do so...its in no way close to a large movement inside the establishment left to just claim "Democrats" do it using it that generally.

 

[FairWarning]

First...how about no executions. Capital punishment is little more than vengeance carried out by the state.  There is a reason most first world countries don't use it anymore.  Seriously...look at who still has a death penalty in this world...is that the company you want to keep?

Second...no, war on police is not something even close to what Democrats have said or encouraged.  Holding police accountable is not the same as the bolded.  Nowhere is a war on police encouraged from the left at this time.  Yes...Im sure you can find some radicals that may do so...its in no way close to a large movement inside the establishment left to just claim "Democrats" do it using it that generally.

It obviously doesn’t play well from the left now they just saw two years of crime.  
 

unfortunately the cameras always find the radicals on any subject.  

 

[DocHolliday]

The current crime wave has been years in the making.   As more and more liberal judges are put in place, criminals know they don’t have much to pay if they are arrested and convicted.   Take a look at the criminal sentences in your State.  

 

[TripItUp]

The current crime wave has been years in the making.   As more and more liberal judges are put in place, criminals know they don’t have much to pay if they are arrested and convicted.   Take a look at the criminal sentences in your State.  

So true, this is a big reason why and a huge reason the Dems are going to have historical losses this midterm.

 

[TripItUp]

First...how about no executions. Capital punishment is little more than vengeance carried out by the state.  There is a reason most first world countries don't use it anymore. 

I would like to see more death penalties, not less.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Also - somewhat related - are there any studies that show that cities with more police officers per capita, have lower crime rates?  (My sense is that police do more work catching bad guys than they do preventing bad guys - but I don't know that.)

Bad guys dont only commit one crime.

 

[parasaurolophus]

The current crime wave has been years in the making.   As more and more liberal judges are put in place, criminals know they don’t have much to pay if they are arrested and convicted.   Take a look at the criminal sentences in your State.  

The pandemic jumpstarted this thing because it was the beginning of so much lax enforcement. It was completely obvious that crime was going to go way up. 

Crime is about to increase a ton.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I think all people accused of any crime should be immediately executed.  Anyone that thinks punishment should be less than that is encouraging criminals.

This is such a lame post. 

The only interesting thing will be to see how you somehow bring it around to raising taxes. 

 

[jon_mx]

This is such a lame post. 

The only interesting thing will be to see how you somehow bring it around to raising taxes. 

Executing people ain't cheap. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

50 years ago those areas had jobs.  Those factories left town and went south or to mexico.  Zero need to live in those ghettos now.

On the flip side, isn't it harder to afford to relocate when you don't have a job ?    

The one thing I agreed with in jon's rant above is that need to help get people from these areas integrated into other communities, but there have been a lot of examples given in these types of threads where we have seen that process blocked or made harder.   And no, 50+ years ago.   

I would think that our issues with covid and our supply chains would have shown us the downside of our system of solely thinking of profit margin and stockholders that lead us to moving so many of these jobs outside the country.   Time to think long and hard about that, and reinvesting in these poor communities with quality jobs and education.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

So true, this is a big reason why and a huge reason the Dems are going to have historical losses this midterm.

Hey Trip, you think the Democrats are going to lose in the midterms? 

 

 

[FairWarning]

On the flip side, isn't it harder to afford to relocate when you don't have a job ?    

The one thing I agreed with in jon's rant above is that need to help get people from these areas integrated into other communities, but there have been a lot of examples given in these types of threads where we have seen that process blocked or made harder.   And no, 50+ years ago.   

I would think that our issues with covid and our supply chains would have shown us the downside of our system of solely thinking of profit margin and stockholders that lead us to moving so many of these jobs outside the country.   Time to think long and hard about that, and reinvesting in these poor communities with quality jobs and education.  

Sure, it’s much harder to relocate without a job. They have below average education and no job prospects.  The people with education and money leave.  Basically they are the forgotten ones.  
 

100% agree with your last point also.  We have to look at why these factories close down.  In the cities, they pay high taxes, which really plays into it.  

 

[The General]

Ultimately there’s a subset of people in any group that #### up everything for everyone else. This is true across all spectrums of people.

Bail reform, police reform are legit issues and have merit but this rash of crime will bring the hammer down across the board.

 

[Stealthycat]

First...how about no executions. Capital punishment is little more than vengeance carried out by the state.  There is a reason most first world countries don't use it anymore.  Seriously...look at who still has a death penalty in this world...is that the company you want to keep?

Second...no, war on police is not something even close to what Democrats have said or encouraged.  Holding police accountable is not the same as the bolded.  Nowhere is a war on police encouraged from the left at this time.  Yes...Im sure you can find some radicals that may do so...its in no way close to a large movement inside the establishment left to just claim "Democrats" do it using it that generally.

on your first point if you could tell me what the statistics are on repeat offenders - because if its a high number (on violent offenders) then obviously our system isn't a deterrent and these criminals are hurting citizens/society because we're too soft on them. Executions remove those who simply live to hurt others.

https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/recidivism-among-federal-violent-offenders

on your second point if Republicans supported a pro-white group and that group spawned looting, rioting, and people in it committed violent acts ... would you say that the Republican party held a responsibility for encouraging and enabling?

because that's what Democrats do with BLM and other groups 

 

[TripItUp]

They Wanted to Roll Back Tough-on-Crime Policies. Then Violent Crime Surged.

This current regime of Democrats is destroying this country  

 

[SoBeDad]

They Wanted to Roll Back Tough-on-Crime Policies. Then Violent Crime Surged.

This current regime of Democrats is destroying this country  

It's hard to prove cause and effect when there are many potentially confounding variables, such as the effects of the pandemic. Do you think the huge increase in gun sales in 2020 is related to the increase in violent crime?

 

[Max Power]

It's hard to prove cause and effect when there are many potentially confounding variables, such as the effects of the pandemic. Do you think the huge increase in gun sales in 2020 is related to the increase in violent crime?

Not after you compare the demographics for each. 

 

[SoBeDad]

Not after you compare the demographics for each. 

Legal guns end up in the hands of criminals. That's a big increase in gun sales, from 28 to 39 million. How do we know that there's no relationship between the big increase in both violent crime and gun sales? 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Legal guns end up in the hands of criminals. That's a big increase in gun sales, from 28 to 39 million. How do we know that there's no relationship between the big increase in both violent crime and gun sales? 

We do know - we've had many links showing the rise in crime along with the rise in guns.    If I remember right, it was a lot of new gun owners in the last few years, so it's not like it's the same gun owners just buying more.  

 

[Boston]

We do know - we've had many links showing the rise in crime along with the rise in guns.    If I remember right, it was a lot of new gun owners in the last few years, so it's not like it's the same gun owners just buying more.  

Hopefully we solve the issue of these guns going off by themself...once we do that, we should be crime-free.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Hopefully we solve the issue of these guns going off by themself...once we do that, we should be crime-free.

You and SC have the same talking points I see.   

 

[CletiusMaximus]

A colleague just showed me a flyer from a lunatic running for Alderman in the neighborhood next to mine in which the candidate claims our city "is one of the highest crime and most dangerous cities in the western world." It talks about "rampant crime!"  Takes a bunch of low-rent shots at his opponent who apparently "opposes sending criminals to prison."

This is for a non-partisan position on a small city council that spends 95% of its time approving store fronts and debating whether to put up a new stop sign.

 

[TripItUp]

It's hard to prove cause and effect when there are many potentially confounding variables, such as the effects of the pandemic. Do you think the huge increase in gun sales in 2020 is related to the increase in violent crime?

The go to Democrat retort.  Refusing to accept responsibility for their actions.

 

[KarmaPolice]

The go to Democrat retort.  Refusing to accept responsibility for their actions.

It could be multiple things.   , I know.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

A colleague just showed me a flyer from a lunatic running for Alderman in the neighborhood next to mine in which the candidate claims our city "is one of the highest crime and most dangerous cities in the western world." It talks about "rampant crime!"  Takes a bunch of low-rent shots at his opponent who apparently "opposes sending criminals to prison."

This is for a non-partisan position on a small city council that spends 95% of its time approving store fronts and debating whether to put up a new stop sign.

Heated battle for that powerful political position.    

 

[KarmaPolice]

I was reading up on the uptick in carjackings over the last few years.    I was shocked by the ages of some of these kids committing the crimes.  

 

[jon_mx]

Legal guns end up in the hands of criminals. That's a big increase in gun sales, from 28 to 39 million. How do we know that there's no relationship between the big increase in both violent crime and gun sales? 

Probably not the relationship people assume.  Most people are buying guns because of the riots and fear of the increased crime.  

 

[The Big Donkey]

I was reading up on the uptick in carjackings over the last few years.    I was shocked by the ages of some of these kids committing the crimes.  

yeah it's crazy.   12 year old in philly charged with murder in the carjacking of a 70 year old.    was with an 18 year old (arrested), 16 year old (on the run).       where are the parents in raising these kids.  sad.

link  

 

[KarmaPolice]

Probably not the relationship people assume.  Most people are buying guns because of the riots and fear of the increased crime.  

Isn't that just an assumption on your part too?  

 

[KarmaPolice]

yeah it's crazy.   12 year old in philly charged with murder in the carjacking of a 70 year old.    was with an 18 year old (arrested), 16 year old (on the run).       where are the parents in raising these kids.  sad.   

I was reading about the whys and saw a bunch of interesting factors popping up:  low arrest rate for the crime, lax laws (some b/c of covid protocols), higher % in carjackings in areas with low internet access (less able to participate in school?),  "easy" to pull off, etc.  

 

[jon_mx]

Isn't that just an assumption on your part too?  

 As usual snarky, hypocritical and pathetic.  It was based on numerous facts.

1.  Study shows increase in crime was not s result of increases in gun sales.

2.  Data which showed record gun sales spiking immediately after the unrest and riots following the shooting of George Floyd.

3.  Violent crime is increasing but not gun violence.  

I said nothing to you, but as usual you come up with your double-barrelled baseless snark.  

 

[Philo Beddoe]

All those guns running around shooting people. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

All those guns running around shooting people. 

Not enough eye rolls for these posts.  

 

[The Commish]

A colleague just showed me a flyer from a lunatic running for Alderman in the neighborhood next to mine in which the candidate claims our city "is one of the highest crime and most dangerous cities in the western world." It talks about "rampant crime!"  Takes a bunch of low-rent shots at his opponent who apparently "opposes sending criminals to prison."

This is for a non-partisan position on a small city council that spends 95% of its time approving store fronts and debating whether to put up a new stop sign.

Fear sells 

 

[KarmaPolice]

 As usual snarky, hypocritical and pathetic.  It was based on numerous facts.

1.  Study shows increase in crime was not s result of increases in gun sales.

2.  Data which showed record gun sales spiking immediately after the unrest and riots following the shooting of George Floyd.

3.  Violent crime is increasing but not gun violence.  

I said nothing to you, but as usual you come up with your double-barrelled baseless snark.  

I missed a couple key words when I replied.  That is my bad.   

The question still stands though.  You provided good reason why people are buying more.  We've had links showing increased guns = increased violent crime.   So regardless of the reason for getting them, couldn't some of the increase be tied to the increase # of guns, for a variety of reasons.  

 

[jon_mx]

I missed a couple key words when I replied.  That is my bad.   

The question still stands though.  You provided good reason why people are buying more.  We've had links showing increased guns = increased violent crime.   So regardless of the reason for getting them, couldn't some of the increase be tied to the increase # of guns, for a variety of reasons.  

The violent crime increase yes.  Violent crimes where guns were involved, no.  

 

[timschochet]

You know, it’s just possible that crime is up because some laws have become too liberal AND because of a proliferation of gun sales AND because of the riots AND because of Covid. 
 

It’s a complex world out there. 

 

[timschochet]

The current crime wave has been years in the making.   As more and more liberal judges are put in place, criminals know they don’t have much to pay if they are arrested and convicted.   Take a look at the criminal sentences in your State.  

This argument doesn’t make any sense to me, because most states have mandatory minimum sentencing for most serious crimes. So the judges you’re referring to couldn’t give out easy sentences even if they wanted to. 

 

[jon_mx]

You know, it’s just possible that crime is up because some laws have become too liberal AND because of a proliferation of gun sales AND because of the riots AND because of Covid. 
 

It’s a complex world out there. 

But the data and surveys show people are buying in response to the violence.