Criminals are really hurting Fantasy Football (1 Viewer)

[JohnnyU]

The increase in leagues getting ripped off of their winnings is becoming an epidemic. People are seeing a way to easily rip off people, so they do. Criminals can always sniff out ways to rob honest hard working people. Not to mention the increase in degenerate gamblers out there who see an easy way to feed their habit. I know everyone says use Leaguesafe, but doesn't the commish still have control over the money in a way? Or am I missing something?

Leaguesafe FAQ -

Winner payouts: How do I get paid at the end of the season?

Once the season has ended, your league commissioner will assign league funds to the winners of your league. Once the payout allocations have been approved in accordance with the Payout Rule for your league, individual winners are responsible for logging in to their LeagueSafe accounts and withdrawing their winnings. The amount available for withdrawal will be shown at the top of your user home page. Funds are available within 24 hours from the end of the regular season.

Payouts: Majority Vote Method

Commissioners who selected the Majority Vote payout method at the beginning of the season are solely responsible for allocating payouts at the end of the season. Once the allocation has been submitted, the league will be given a chance to vote on the proposed allocations via email. Once the allocation has received enough votes to pass with a 51% majority, funds will transfer from the league into individual owner accounts.

The vote will stay open for 7 days. If not enough votes are cast to reach a majority, the allocation will pass or fail based on the number of votes cast at the time of expiration. For example, if 3 members of a 10-team league vote YES and 1 votes NO, the allocation would pass by a count of 3-1 upon expiration.

ETA: Looks like eveyrone needs to make sure your Payout Rule is Majority Approval instead of Commissioner Control.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

yeah old Chris Bruce would withdraw funds from leaguesafe.

there is no fail safe way on the internet really to make sure you are gonna get your money.

I play in the MOX leagues and ravnzfan has always paid out, sometimes slow but giving him an extra nudge seems to work.

to me, being in an established well known commished league is probably the best way and just watch leaguesafe funds during the year if your league uses it

 

[Ministry of Pain]

yeah old Chris Bruce would withdraw funds from leaguesafe.

there is no fail safe way on the internet really to make sure you are gonna get your money.

I play in the MOX leagues and ravnzfan has always paid out, sometimes slow but giving him an extra nudge seems to work.

to me, being in an established well known commished league is probably the best way and just watch leaguesafe funds during the year if your league uses it

Thanks BSS, thinking of doing something pretty big this off season and reading this only makes me think a 6 month CD from the bank is still the best option.

 

[rizzler]

Truly not being arrogant.

But I feel for you dudes who don't have a long running (or even freshly started) league with GOOD, true friends.

I couldn't imagine ever giving any of my money to some unknown, and/or playing in a league with whom I don't know anyone. I personally find no fun in that.

3/4 of FF to me, is ####-talking the hell out of my buddies post-draft, winning games, more trash talk, drinking beers over it....

1/4 of it is the money. But be damned if i'm gonna let some noodle-brained banjo fiddler run off with my payout.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Truly not being arrogant.But I feel for you dudes who don't have a long running (or even freshly started) league with GOOD, true friends.I couldn't imagine ever giving any of my money to some unknown, and/or playing in a league with whom I don't know anyone. I personally find no fun in that.3/4 of FF to me, is ####-talking the hell out of my buddies post-draft, winning games, more trash talk, drinking beers over it....1/4 of it is the money. But be damned if i'm gonna let some noodle-brained banjo fiddler run off with my payout.

thats for local re-draft leagues. and I agree.but for good dynasty competition, its hard to find that locally and some of the best dynasty leagues are on the web ran by good commishes on the up and up

 

[rizzler]

Truly not being arrogant.But I feel for you dudes who don't have a long running (or even freshly started) league with GOOD, true friends.I couldn't imagine ever giving any of my money to some unknown, and/or playing in a league with whom I don't know anyone. I personally find no fun in that.3/4 of FF to me, is ####-talking the hell out of my buddies post-draft, winning games, more trash talk, drinking beers over it....1/4 of it is the money. But be damned if i'm gonna let some noodle-brained banjo fiddler run off with my payout.

thats for local re-draft leagues. and I agree.but for good dynasty competition, its hard to find that locally and some of the best dynasty leagues are on the web ran by good commishes on the up and up

You may have a point, though we run redraft and dynasty with nearly the same crew.I lucked out I guess.

 

[fsufan]

Truly not being arrogant.But I feel for you dudes who don't have a long running (or even freshly started) league with GOOD, true friends.I couldn't imagine ever giving any of my money to some unknown, and/or playing in a league with whom I don't know anyone. I personally find no fun in that.3/4 of FF to me, is ####-talking the hell out of my buddies post-draft, winning games, more trash talk, drinking beers over it....1/4 of it is the money. But be damned if i'm gonna let some noodle-brained banjo fiddler run off with my payout.

14 year commish hereI found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

 

[rizzler]

14 year commish hereI found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

 

[fsufan]

14 year commish hereI found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

90% were good friends. Just had to hound them for the $. Just got old

 

[rizzler]

14 year commish hereI found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

90% were good friends. Just had to hound them for the $. Just got old

sucks.

 

[RUSF18]

14 year commish hereI found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

90% were good friends. Just had to hound them for the $. Just got old

It's pretty simple...the money comes with you to the draft, and it's in the commish's hand before it starts. If you think you have the type of crew (or just a couple people) who will see this as a bluff, put in a rule that when the draft starts, only those who paid can make selections. Anyone who hasn't paid gets skipped, the next guy goes on the clock, and onward. The owner can come back and make his pick Vikings-style at the point he gets the money from the ATM. Come on, this is 2012, anyone can send money to another person through their phone.

 

[JohnnyU]

14 year commish here

I found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.

We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

90% were good friends. Just had to hound them for the $. Just got old

It's pretty simple...the money comes with you to the draft, and it's in the commish's hand before it starts. If you think you have the type of crew (or just a couple people) who will see this as a bluff, put in a rule that when the draft starts, only those who paid can make selections. Anyone who hasn't paid gets skipped, the next guy goes on the clock, and onward. The owner can come back and make his pick Vikings-style at the point he gets the money from the ATM. Come on, this is 2012, anyone can send money to another person through their phone.

There's the problem, it's the commish you have to worry about and that's the premise of this thread.

 

[stbugs]

14 year commish hereI found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

90% were good friends. Just had to hound them for the $. Just got old

It's pretty simple...the money comes with you to the draft, and it's in the commish's hand before it starts. If you think you have the type of crew (or just a couple people) who will see this as a bluff, put in a rule that when the draft starts, only those who paid can make selections. Anyone who hasn't paid gets skipped, the next guy goes on the clock, and onward. The owner can come back and make his pick Vikings-style at the point he gets the money from the ATM. Come on, this is 2012, anyone can send money to another person through their phone.

We have only had one issue I can recall with a longstanding league and that was last year that I didn't get paid for a long time due to one person not paying their fee. They did and did again for this year. Because of that we finally set it up after 15 years that you couldn't play unless you paid up front. I am fine with that and that is the way it is done in a local FBG's league and neighborhood league where we draft in person. I don't play in any on-line leagues, but I am in 3 local/phone leagues with friends/neighbors/FBGs acquaintances. We have been lucky enough to not have any $$$ issues (the late entry fee was paid), but now all 3 are up front payments, so the only issue is the commish and I have no worries about any of them.:knocksonwood:

 

[stbugs]

14 year commish here

I found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.

We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

90% were good friends. Just had to hound them for the $. Just got old

It's pretty simple...the money comes with you to the draft, and it's in the commish's hand before it starts. If you think you have the type of crew (or just a couple people) who will see this as a bluff, put in a rule that when the draft starts, only those who paid can make selections. Anyone who hasn't paid gets skipped, the next guy goes on the clock, and onward. The owner can come back and make his pick Vikings-style at the point he gets the money from the ATM. Come on, this is 2012, anyone can send money to another person through their phone.

There's the problem, it's the commish you have to worry about and that's the premise of this thread.

I do agree with you when you don't know the person. If all LeagueSafe does is make sure everyone pays up front and then the commish does the actual dispersement then it really only postpones a potential issue. Even if LeagueSafe did dispersements to the accounts that paid, the commish still has to enter in the actual winners and amounts. The only saving grace is that in a pinch, you would have proof that someone stole money, but not sure of the legality of everything and what you could do to get the money back.I think the only thing LeagueSafe really does is makes sure everyone pays and keeps the money out of the commish's account where they could "accidentally" use it for something else. Kind of takes the temptation out of the equation until the end of the season. That does count for something as the commish could use the money if they think they will win something. At the end of the year, the commish will already know that they would be stealing instead of borrowing.

 

[JohnnyU]

14 year commish here

I found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.

We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

90% were good friends. Just had to hound them for the $. Just got old

It's pretty simple...the money comes with you to the draft, and it's in the commish's hand before it starts. If you think you have the type of crew (or just a couple people) who will see this as a bluff, put in a rule that when the draft starts, only those who paid can make selections. Anyone who hasn't paid gets skipped, the next guy goes on the clock, and onward. The owner can come back and make his pick Vikings-style at the point he gets the money from the ATM. Come on, this is 2012, anyone can send money to another person through their phone.

There's the problem, it's the commish you have to worry about and that's the premise of this thread.

I do agree with you when you don't know the person. If all LeagueSafe does is make sure everyone pays up front and then the commish does the actual dispersement then it really only postpones a potential issue. Even if LeagueSafe did dispersements to the accounts that paid, the commish still has to enter in the actual winners and amounts. The only saving grace is that in a pinch, you would have proof that someone stole money, but not sure of the legality of everything and what you could do to get the money back.I think the only thing LeagueSafe really does is makes sure everyone pays and keeps the money out of the commish's account where they could "accidentally" use it for something else. Kind of takes the temptation out of the equation until the end of the season. That does count for something as the commish could use the money if they think they will win something. At the end of the year, the commish will already know that they would be stealing instead of borrowing.

In other words, if someone comes into the situation with the intent of robbing you, he's going to rob you.

 

[JohnnyU]

I wonder if Leaguesafe could partner with Fantasy hosting sites like MFL and interface with each other, taking the commish out of the equation? Leaguesafe could interface with MFL to get the winners and allocate the winnings. It would require programming on both sides to make this happen, but I know it can be done.

 

[beaux]

Play in free leagues. There is no need to have money involved.

 

[JohnnyU]

Play in free leagues. There is no need to have money involved.

Free leagues are boring and I wouldn't waste my time with them. Besides, people lose interest in them real quick and you end up with a dead league with inactive owners. I think most like to play for some cash. It makes it more interesting.

 

[RUSF18]

14 year commish here

I found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.

We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

90% were good friends. Just had to hound them for the $. Just got old

It's pretty simple...the money comes with you to the draft, and it's in the commish's hand before it starts. If you think you have the type of crew (or just a couple people) who will see this as a bluff, put in a rule that when the draft starts, only those who paid can make selections. Anyone who hasn't paid gets skipped, the next guy goes on the clock, and onward. The owner can come back and make his pick Vikings-style at the point he gets the money from the ATM. Come on, this is 2012, anyone can send money to another person through their phone.

There's the problem, it's the commish you have to worry about and that's the premise of this thread.

It wasn't the premise of the posts I was responding to, Thread Cop.

 

[JohnnyU]

14 year commish here

I found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.

We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

90% were good friends. Just had to hound them for the $. Just got old

It's pretty simple...the money comes with you to the draft, and it's in the commish's hand before it starts. If you think you have the type of crew (or just a couple people) who will see this as a bluff, put in a rule that when the draft starts, only those who paid can make selections. Anyone who hasn't paid gets skipped, the next guy goes on the clock, and onward. The owner can come back and make his pick Vikings-style at the point he gets the money from the ATM. Come on, this is 2012, anyone can send money to another person through their phone.

There's the problem, it's the commish you have to worry about and that's the premise of this thread.

It wasn't the premise of the posts I was responding to, Thread Cop.

WTH? Oh, I don't know, I try to relate posts to the subject of the thread.

 

[stbugs]

14 year commish here

I found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.

We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

90% were good friends. Just had to hound them for the $. Just got old

It's pretty simple...the money comes with you to the draft, and it's in the commish's hand before it starts. If you think you have the type of crew (or just a couple people) who will see this as a bluff, put in a rule that when the draft starts, only those who paid can make selections. Anyone who hasn't paid gets skipped, the next guy goes on the clock, and onward. The owner can come back and make his pick Vikings-style at the point he gets the money from the ATM. Come on, this is 2012, anyone can send money to another person through their phone.

There's the problem, it's the commish you have to worry about and that's the premise of this thread.

I do agree with you when you don't know the person. If all LeagueSafe does is make sure everyone pays up front and then the commish does the actual dispersement then it really only postpones a potential issue. Even if LeagueSafe did dispersements to the accounts that paid, the commish still has to enter in the actual winners and amounts. The only saving grace is that in a pinch, you would have proof that someone stole money, but not sure of the legality of everything and what you could do to get the money back.I think the only thing LeagueSafe really does is makes sure everyone pays and keeps the money out of the commish's account where they could "accidentally" use it for something else. Kind of takes the temptation out of the equation until the end of the season. That does count for something as the commish could use the money if they think they will win something. At the end of the year, the commish will already know that they would be stealing instead of borrowing.

In other words, if someone comes into the situation with the intent of robbing you, he's going to rob you.

Possibly. You've heard of the term the road to hell is paved with good intentions, correct? Well, if the commish is out to steal in the beginning, you are correct, not much you can do. Heck, even if you tie into MFL, the commish could change game results if they wanted to before it gets pushed to LeagueSafe.What I was referring to is the guy with good intentions that gets in a bind. If the money is already in their account, the ease of use may be too much. If the money is in LeagueSafe, he may not touch it even at the end of the season. If the commish is 4-0, he may think he is probably winning something so taking the money isn't a problem. If the season is over, he knows who gets what and all of a sudden it is stealing and not borrowing, i.e. playing with house money.

That said, I agree with you. I have never used it, so just "holding" the money outside of the commish's bank account isn't really what I thought LeagueSafe did. I figured it dispersed the money for the commish. For bad commish's with the intent to steal, it does nothing.

 

[beaux]

Play in free leagues. There is no need to have money involved.

Free leagues are boring and I wouldn't waste my time with them. Besides, people lose interest in them real quick and you end up with a dead league with inactive owners. I think most like to play for some cash. It makes it more interesting.

Congrats, but every free league I have been involved with has never had a dead owner and has always been highly active. You have to find the right owners.

 

[rizzler]

Congrats, but every free league I have been involved with has never had a dead owner and has always been highly active. You have to find the right owners.

A free league is akin to "just the tip"

 

[JohnnyU]

Play in free leagues. There is no need to have money involved.

Free leagues are boring and I wouldn't waste my time with them. Besides, people lose interest in them real quick and you end up with a dead league with inactive owners. I think most like to play for some cash. It makes it more interesting.

Congrats, but every free league I have been involved with has never had a dead owner and has always been highly active. You have to find the right owners.

ok

 

[bonesman]

The increase in leagues getting ripped off of their winnings is becoming an epidemic.

Why do you say that?Did you or someone you know get ripped off this year?I haven't seen a big influx of threads about it in the SP or anything.

 

[JohnnyU]

The increase in leagues getting ripped off of their winnings is becoming an epidemic.

Why do you say that?Did you or someone you know get ripped off this year?I haven't seen a big influx of threads about it in the SP or anything.

If you read one per year it's too many, but I've read about 3 or 4 instances this year alone (See looking for Leagues Thread). That's where the rip off threads get banished to.

 

[GregR]

... I know everyone says use Leaguesafe, but doesn't the commish still have control over the money in a way? Or am I missing something?

Leaguesafe FAQ -

Payouts: Majority Vote Method

Commissioners who selected the Majority Vote payout method at the beginning of the season are solely responsible for allocating payouts at the end of the season. Once the allocation has been submitted, the league will be given a chance to vote on the proposed allocations via email. Once the allocation has received enough votes to pass with a 51% majority, funds will transfer from the league into individual owner accounts.

I haven't used LeagueSafe myself, but it sounds like only thing the commish can do is submit how the money should be paid out. If the league doesn't agree they vote no and it won't be paid out. So the worst that could happen is the money is tied up but the commish can't walk with it anyway.I'm not sure what what you could do better. There has to be someone with the authority to say what the distribution should be. I don't know that having it directly tied to an MFL standings is going to do any better. A commish who wanted to cheat could just edit the results as easily as he could submit a fake set of payouts.

 

[JohnnyU]

... I know everyone says use Leaguesafe, but doesn't the commish still have control over the money in a way? Or am I missing something?

Leaguesafe FAQ -

Payouts: Majority Vote Method

Commissioners who selected the Majority Vote payout method at the beginning of the season are solely responsible for allocating payouts at the end of the season. Once the allocation has been submitted, the league will be given a chance to vote on the proposed allocations via email. Once the allocation has received enough votes to pass with a 51% majority, funds will transfer from the league into individual owner accounts.

I haven't used LeagueSafe myself, but it sounds like only thing the commish can do is submit how the money should be paid out. If the league doesn't agree they vote no and it won't be paid out. So the worst that could happen is the money is tied up but the commish can't walk with it anyway.I'm not sure what what you could do better. There has to be someone with the authority to say what the distribution should be. I don't know that having it directly tied to an MFL standings is going to do any better. A commish who wanted to cheat could just edit the results as easily as he could submit a fake set of payouts.

You're right about the editing part. Also, if you don't have a vote I think it's no better than not using League Safe. I think in a couple of leagues using LS we're not voting.

 

[GregR]

14 year commish hereI found running a league with friends to be a pain in the ###. They would never pay the league fee when due. I was running down fees in January, February and March, got ####ed a few times by friend with the league fee. Never will run a league with friends again

Sounds to me you're confusing "friends" with "acquaintances".At least I hope you are.We are also going on our 15th year, with almost the 100% original crew, and not a penny unpaid.

90% were good friends. Just had to hound them for the $. Just got old

It's pretty simple...the money comes with you to the draft, and it's in the commish's hand before it starts. If you think you have the type of crew (or just a couple people) who will see this as a bluff, put in a rule that when the draft starts, only those who paid can make selections. Anyone who hasn't paid gets skipped, the next guy goes on the clock, and onward. The owner can come back and make his pick Vikings-style at the point he gets the money from the ATM. Come on, this is 2012, anyone can send money to another person through their phone.

I think this line of thinking is in the right direction, but a much better way of doing it is to require the money a week or two BEFORE the draft. That way the person who didn't pay loses any leverage with the league not wanting to get stuck with an 11 team league or the like. You have time to find a replacement owner.Plus, that email the deadbeat sees that the league is going to get an owner to replace him because he didn't pay is probably enough incentive to get him to go pay if he really plans to be in the league.

 

[SayWhat?]

The increase in leagues getting ripped off of their winnings is becoming an epidemic. People are seeing a way to easily rip off people, so they do. Criminals can always sniff out ways to rob honest hard working people. Not to mention the increase in degenerate gamblers out there who see an easy way to feed their habit. I know everyone says use Leaguesafe, but doesn't the commish still have control over the money in a way? Or am I missing something?

Leaguesafe FAQ -

Winner payouts: How do I get paid at the end of the season?

Once the season has ended, your league commissioner will assign league funds to the winners of your league. Once the payout allocations have been approved in accordance with the Payout Rule for your league, individual winners are responsible for logging in to their LeagueSafe accounts and withdrawing their winnings. The amount available for withdrawal will be shown at the top of your user home page. Funds are available within 24 hours from the end of the regular season.

Payouts: Majority Vote Method

Commissioners who selected the Majority Vote payout method at the beginning of the season are solely responsible for allocating payouts at the end of the season. Once the allocation has been submitted, the league will be given a chance to vote on the proposed allocations via email. Once the allocation has received enough votes to pass with a 51% majority, funds will transfer from the league into individual owner accounts.

The vote will stay open for 7 days. If not enough votes are cast to reach a majority, the allocation will pass or fail based on the number of votes cast at the time of expiration. For example, if 3 members of a 10-team league vote YES and 1 votes NO, the allocation would pass by a count of 3-1 upon expiration.

Unless I've missed something, when the "Majority Vote" method is selected via League Safe (done at the beginning of the year so all league members know this), then the only thing the commish has control over is actually allocating the distribution at year-end, which is then put up for a league majority vote.So if the commish allocated the funds to himself that should've have been, then owners would vote against the distribution and it wouldn't happen. As long as the majority vote option in League Safe is selected, I don't think it's very likely that a commish can rip off a league.

Is that incorrect?

 

[Flying Elvis]

I had the same impression from my reading of Leaguesafe's payout options: the commish can only "propose" allocations, which is entirely different from actually allocating. Once the commish proposes allocations it requires a majority vote to actually allocate the funds. I, too, thought the worst case scenario was money simply sits in Leaguesafe's accounts until some resolution is reached by vote.

As for the title . . . I'm not sure bad commish's are really hurting FF. Maybe some nice folks don't play again b/c they got burned in their first attempt at a money league, but I don't think the impression people have of FF when mentioned is tarnished somehow. Hell, most people probably live their FF lives blissfully unaware that scummy people run off with league fees on a yearly basis.

 

[Fullback Fro]

The second option that you mentioned in the first post:

Commissioners who selected the Majority Vote payout method at the beginning of the season are solely responsible for allocating payouts at the end of the season. Once the allocation has been submitted, the league will be given a chance to vote on the proposed allocations via email. Once the allocation has received enough votes to pass with a 51% majority, funds will transfer from the league into individual owner accounts.



Make sue you sign up for a league that has this option selected when you go to leaguesafe.



The commish has no rights to be able to take the money. It has to be voted on by the majority of the members of the league. His only job is to setup the leaguesafe league. He cannot change the option in mid-league. He also has to do the allocation. This means tell where the money goes to league safe. Then the money won't be transferred unless the members of the league vote the allocation in place.

 

[JohnnyU]

The second option that you mentioned in the first post:

Commissioners who selected the Majority Vote payout method at the beginning of the season are solely responsible for allocating payouts at the end of the season. Once the allocation has been submitted, the league will be given a chance to vote on the proposed allocations via email. Once the allocation has received enough votes to pass with a 51% majority, funds will transfer from the league into individual owner accounts.



Make sue you sign up for a league that has this option selected when you go to leaguesafe.



The commish has no rights to be able to take the money. It has to be voted on by the majority of the members of the league. His only job is to setup the leaguesafe league. He cannot change the option in mid-league. He also has to do the allocation. This means tell where the money goes to league safe. Then the money won't be transferred unless the members of the league vote the allocation in place.

I understand that, but I believe in a couple leagues I'm in we're not using the voting option. I will suggest it.

 

[Agent575]

Dirty commishes can change their name/email very easily so you cannot stop them unless you stop joining their leagues.

I believe the best thing for the hobby because I agree that Leaguesafe is not the answer whasoever is to comprise a list of the GOOD COMMISHES. A good commissioner wouldn't be allowed on the list until like 20+ people speak on his behalf. Not only will this help folks avoid scammers but it will help you find well run leagues because even some of the guys who won't run off with your loot don't have any business running a league.

It could work if someone really did it well. Then if a couple guys from the major forums basically updated each other with additions or subtractions to the list, everyone benefits.

If angry mobs cannot track down these losers and take care of em, to me the above is the next best way to stop it.

 

[JohnnyU]

I changed the OP to include:

ETA: Looks like eveyrone needs to make sure your Payout Rule is Majority Approval instead of Commissioner Control.

 

[beaux]

Congrats, but every free league I have been involved with has never had a dead owner and has always been highly active. You have to find the right owners.

A free league is akin to "just the tip"

Yeah, not really. I don't see the need to have money involved to play a game of luck when free will do just fine if you find a solid group of owners.

 

[Fullback Fro]

I changed the OP to include:

ETA: Looks like eveyrone needs to make sure your Payout Rule is Majority Approval instead of Commissioner Control.

Exactly.

Also MFL does nave integration with Leaguesafe already in place.

How do I set my league up to use LeagueSafe.com to manage our finances?

Answer: To set your league up to use LeagueSafe.com you can go to the For Commissioner > Setup > Manage League Finances Using LeagueSafe.com.

Here you can set your league up to use this third-party company to manage your league finances.

 

[matuski]

Truly not being arrogant.

But I feel for you dudes who don't have a long running (or even freshly started) league with GOOD, true friends.

I couldn't imagine ever giving any of my money to some unknown, and/or playing in a league with whom I don't know anyone. I personally find no fun in that.

3/4 of FF to me, is ####-talking the hell out of my buddies post-draft, winning games, more trash talk, drinking beers over it....

1/4 of it is the money. But be damned if i'm gonna let some noodle-brained banjo fiddler run off with my payout.

 

[Charch]

Thanks for the LeagueSafe discussion, everyone and specifically OP JohnnyU. If you don't know, I'm Paul Charchian, the founder of LeagueSafe.

You guys have figured out the most salient points of this discussion. For leagues that are formed among strangers, we definitely recommend using the LeagueSafe feature that requires a majority vote for winnings allocations. This ensures that everyone in the league has an opportunity to approve/reject the proposed payouts.

And I agree with the notion that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. These forums have seen guys get ripped off in long-standing leagues, probably from commissioners who never thought they'd end up stealing the money. LeagueSafe puts the whole monetary issue aside. Everyone knows that the money is going to paid out quickly and properly.

MFL leagues can import their league data directly to LeagueSafe through the Setup options. And you can even pay for MFL from your LeagueSafe balance. That way, commissioners don't have to pay for the entire MFL service themselves.

I'm always available for questions, comments or concerns about LeagueSafe. Feel free to hit my FBG inbox.

 

[Warrior]

Thanks for the LeagueSafe discussion, everyone and specifically OP JohnnyU. If you don't know, I'm Paul Charchian, the founder of LeagueSafe.

You guys have figured out the most salient points of this discussion. For leagues that are formed among strangers, we definitely recommend using the LeagueSafe feature that requires a majority vote for winnings allocations. This ensures that everyone in the league has an opportunity to approve/reject the proposed payouts.

And what happens if the league rejects the proposed payouts? If you have a corrupt commish and everyone rejects, the money seems to be just frozen indefinitely in LS. I don't see where having this option is helpful as it seems to just create a standoff.

And I agree with the notion that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. These forums have seen guys get ripped off in long-standing leagues, probably from commissioners who never thought they'd end up stealing the money. LeagueSafe puts the whole monetary issue aside. Everyone knows that the money is going to paid out quickly and properly.

This is assuming that the Commish is on the up and up, which would eliminate the need to use LS in the first place. That is, unless the issue above is resolved.

MFL leagues can import their league data directly to LeagueSafe through the Setup options. And you can even pay for MFL from your LeagueSafe balance. That way, commissioners don't have to pay for the entire MFL service themselves.

I'm always available for questions, comments or concerns about LeagueSafe. Feel free to hit my FBG inbox.

Please see bolded questions above.I use LS, but it's tough to get past the glitchy site, especially when you're trusting it not only to hold the balance of your fantasy sports winnings, but to securely protect your CC# and bank account # when you input them.

I have had at least a half-dozen managers in my leagues report issues with the website that I had to get sorted out through customer service. *Note: Customer service for LS is superb...but it shouldn't be needed in the first place for most of these issues.

The problem is that on the LS website, basic actions cause hangups, glitches, and other major issues when you consider that large amoutns of money are changing hands with these actions.

For example, I have personally had issues with hitting the refresh button and having an action repeated, such as paying for a manager's entry from my LS balance. In other words, I transfer $x from my balance to pay for this entry since he paid me offline. After that, the page didn't load correctly so I hit refresh, causing the entire transaction to happen twice.

Another time, I hit the 'back' button a couple of times causing my browser to navigate to a prior payment screen and re-process a second payment.

In another case, a couple months ago, there was an issue where clicking on the links would cause a never-ending loop. If you went to leaguesafe.com and clocked on login, then clicked on the leagues page, it would bring you right back to the home page again, and so on.

Another manager had issues with his Canadian $ payment being charged to his bank account but not showing up as paid.

These are only a couple of many website-related issues that we have had over the years. The website was improved recently, but I have still come across issues even with the new version. Like I said above, the customer service reps fixed everything and were very nice about it. However, I expect more of a website that handles huge amounts of payments on a day to day basis. I still use LeagueSafe's services, but I'm very leery that the site will at some point implode or be hacked given how basic some of the navigation issues are (imagine a credit card website, bank website, or paypal double-charging your account because you hit the back button one too many times or hit refresh).

These are very basic issues that any reputable website should iron out from the get-go, certainly before they started processing payments, accepting CC#'s and bank account information. For goodness sake...hire a tester or two that can try to 'break' the website by doing basic actions and fix those glitches.

On a side note, there is one rediculous aspect of LS that I cannot understand. If you choose the option to allow late payments, LS charges the person who makes the payment a $10 fee. This doesn't go to the league...it goes to LG itself. How does that make any sense? LS isn't hurt in any way by managers paying late and claim that this $10 fee is an 'incentive' to pay on time...if they want to make an incentive to pay on time, the late fee should go into the league pot, not as some sort of bonus to the website itself. That's just silly.

I say all of these things as someone who uses LS for all of my leagues. I really like the idea and the website and am trying to provide objective criticism because I want to see it improve. And once again, the customer service is top-notch, which says a lot about the website and founder

 

[Warpig]

Have to be careful with LeagueSafe as well. In one of the leagues I am in, with LeagueSafe as the fund tracker, Leaguesafe did some sort of an upgrade and all the funds from our account disappeared. Our commish paid every penny back out of his pocket since he felt bad because he is the one that wanted to go to LeagueSafe. LeagueSafe said they weren't responsible for the lost funds. They had no explanation.

I commish a league and will never use LeagueSafe for that. Just takes 1 time.

 

[SayWhat?]

Have to be careful with LeagueSafe as well. In one of the leagues I am in, with LeagueSafe as the fund tracker, Leaguesafe did some sort of an upgrade and all the funds from our account disappeared. Our commish paid every penny back out of his pocket since he felt bad because he is the one that wanted to go to LeagueSafe. LeagueSafe said they weren't responsible for the lost funds. They had no explanation.I commish a league and will never use LeagueSafe for that. Just takes 1 time.

All of your funds that were in League Safe disappeared, and League Safe simply said "too bad?" I find that extremely difficult to believe. League Safe may not be the most user friendly website, but it's done its job in the leagues that I'm in and run thus far.

 

[Kleck]

The second option that you mentioned in the first post:

Commissioners who selected the Majority Vote payout method at the beginning of the season are solely responsible for allocating payouts at the end of the season. Once the allocation has been submitted, the league will be given a chance to vote on the proposed allocations via email. Once the allocation has received enough votes to pass with a 51% majority, funds will transfer from the league into individual owner accounts.



Make sue you sign up for a league that has this option selected when you go to leaguesafe.



The commish has no rights to be able to take the money. It has to be voted on by the majority of the members of the league. His only job is to setup the leaguesafe league. He cannot change the option in mid-league. He also has to do the allocation. This means tell where the money goes to league safe. Then the money won't be transferred unless the members of the league vote the allocation in place.

I understand that, but I believe in a couple leagues I'm in we're not using the voting option. I will suggest it.

If some people have already paid, you cannot change to the voting option. At least that is what LeagueSafe is telling me when I try to switch to the league vote option.

 

[Charch]

Have to be careful with LeagueSafe as well. In one of the leagues I am in, with LeagueSafe as the fund tracker, Leaguesafe did some sort of an upgrade and all the funds from our account disappeared. Our commish paid every penny back out of his pocket since he felt bad because he is the one that wanted to go to LeagueSafe. LeagueSafe said they weren't responsible for the lost funds. They had no explanation.

I commish a league and will never use LeagueSafe for that. Just takes 1 time.

Warpig, We DID do a complete site overhaul last summer. But, I can't believe that we lost your money, and wouldn't refund it. That's the exact opposite of what we stand for. Please send me as many details as you can (you can send to my inbox here on FBG), and I'll investigate.

 

[SWC]

in my leagues if you dont pay up you dont draft and if you dont draft then you dont have a team and if you dont have a team and ##### about it then you are likely to have someone come over to your house and give you a pile driver in your front yard while your kids watch and then maybe they get a pile driver too if they get lippy basically themoral of the story is pay up and then play and then pay out and dont ##### about it because no one likes whiners or chumps punks

 

[Charch]

Warrior, thanks for the meaty topics, and the time it took to spell out the issues you've had. This is the kind of feedback that I love to hear about.

You asked: "And what happens if the league rejects the proposed payouts? If you have a corrupt commish and everyone rejects, the money seems to be just frozen indefinitely in LS. I don't see where having this option is helpful as it seems to just create a standoff."

My reply: Per our terms of service, if the commissioner cannot get a majority vote, or refuses to allocate funds for 60 days, owners in that league can request a refund of their entry fee. In our three years of service, it's happened once.

You asked: "This is assuming that the Commish is on the up and up, which would eliminate the need to use LS in the first place. That is, unless the issue above is resolved."

My reply: I think my reply resolves the issue.

You asked: "I use LS, but it's tough to get past the glitchy site, especially when you're trusting it not only to hold the balance of your fantasy sports winnings, but to securely protect your CC# and bank account # when you input them."

My reply: Most importantly, we don't store any financial data, specifically not CC# or bank account numbers. We feel that the site's overhaul last summer cleared most of the glitches out of the system. Our customer support incidents are WAY down. If you're having a problem, please let us know so we can clear the issue.

You asked: *Note: Customer service for LS is superb

My reply: Thank you!

You asked: Another manager had issues with his Canadian $ payment being charged to his bank account but not showing up as paid.

My reply: International users have a higher incidence of rejected CC attempts due to address mismatches (not the users' fault, it's just inherent due to the wide variety of formats of international addresses). As a fraud protection measure, many credit card companies will temporarily display an attempted transaction with an address mismatch as a regular charge. These postings look like regular charges, but in reality, they're not, and they drop off the bill in 1-2 days. So, at first glance, it looks like the rejected charge when through, but in reality it didn't. If your friend was actually charged twice, definitely let us know so we can refund him.

You asked: I'm very leery that the site will at some point implode or be hacked given how basic some of the navigation issues are (imagine a credit card website, bank website, or paypal double-charging your account because you hit the back button one too many times or hit refresh).

My reply: I think every web site discourages users from hitting the back button during processing. We certainly don't want double charges, and if it does happen, we're definitely going to refund the second charge. Refunds are a hassle for everyone involved, including us. We are very conscious of refund issues, and I assure you that it's not a significant issue for our site.

You asked: If you choose the option to allow late payments, LS charges the person who makes the payment a $10 fee. This doesn't go to the league...it goes to LG itself. How does that make any sense?

My reply: Two reasons, Warrior. 1) The late fee exists because there needs to be a penalty for those who don't pay, or else nobody pays on time. In our first year, we didn't have the penalty, and people just didn't bother paying on time, creating problems for commissioners. 2) As you may know, LeagueSafe can be totally free experience. In a 0% interest rate economy, this is one of the revenue streams that lets us keep the lights on. And, nobody has to pay a late fee. Everyone has the option of paying on time. Think of it this way: The deadbeats are keeping the site free for everyone who pays on time.

Again, I really appreciate you passing along your thoughts, Warrior. Never hesitate to hit my FBG inbox with any problems or ideas that you might have.

 

[Charch]

If some people have already paid, you cannot change to the voting option. At least that is what LeagueSafe is telling me when I try to switch to the league vote option.

Kleck, if someone has already made a payment into the league under the understanding that the league funds are going to be distributed according to a particular rule, we can't allow the commissioner to change it. It's not fair to the people who have made their deposit already. If nobody has made a deposit, it can be changed.I hope that helps.

 

[Otis]

You're talking about NFL players, right?

Ray Lewis destroys fantasy stats every week. Great example.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

If you're playing for higher-than-normal stakes (to me, that's an entry fee of $200 or higher) I can see the need for a system where you can guarantee payout. There's a lot on the line.

But for smaller leagues (like $50 entry fees), why play for money at all? If you're playing with friends, you're really playing for the camaraderie, trash-talking and bragging rights. The money is almost getting in the way, and opens opportunities for hard feelings over paying on time, chasing down the commish, etc. Just play for a trophy and be done with it. You eliminate a lot of headaches.

If the money is needed to make things interesting, maybe the league isn't that interesting on its own. Maybe it would be wiser to quit those leagues, save up the entry fee from a few smaller leagues and play in one higher stakes league. For leagues with friends you don't really need the money anyway, so play in friends leagues for bragging rights.

Everyone's experience is different, but some of the most intense leagues I've ever played in are no-money leagues. It depends on the friendships, competitiveness and quality of the bragging rights.

I guess my point is that criminals really are making things tougher for fantasy owners, and one solution might be to eliminate money in leagues where it's not enough to care much about and only creates opportunities for friction. That way you can still enjoy it and not give yourself $2000 worth of heartburn over not getting your $250 payout.

 

[The Comedian]

I don't agree, at all, that criminals are really hurting fantasy football.