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Culpepper for a 2nd rounder.... (1 Viewer)

NoCheese

turn or burn
from ProFootballTalk RUMOR MILL

VIKINGS SHOPPING CULPEPPER

Roughly a year ago, we broke the news that the Vikings were in the process of trading Randy Moss. Now, we're told that the Vikings actively are shopping quarterback Daunte Culpepper.

Per a league source, the Vikings are contacting all of the teams perceived to be in the market for a quarterback in order to gauge interest for a trade. The initial asking price, per the source, is a second-round draft pick.

The Vikings undoubtedly would be looking for much more if Culpepper hadn't suffered tears to three ligaments in his right knee on October 30, at the end of the first quarter of a game against the Panthers. The Vikings also would be looking for much more if Culpepper's play hadn't collapsed from 2004, in which he put together one of the best seasons ever at the position, to 2005, in which his performance was mediocre at best.

Tensions recently have climbed between the Vikings and Culpepper. After suffering the injury and undergoing surgery, Culpepper essentially became a stranger to the organization. After the season ended, Culpepper tried to resume talks aimed at restructuring a contract that runs through the 2013 season. (In 2005, the Vikings agreed to push $8 million in future money forward.) Culpepper since has fired agent Mason Ashe, and Culpepper might end up representing himself in connection with any future efforts to finagle more money.

For the Vikings, the bigger question (as we'd previously heard it) was whether Culpepper would be able to perform effectively in new coach Brad Childress's offense. Childress, we'd heard, was concerned that Culpepper couldn't pull it off. Coupled with the fact that Daunte won't be available to get on the field through the offseason program and training camp, there's no way he'd be effective as the team's quarterback this season.

So, apparently, the team has decided that the best thing to do is to make a move now, before Culpepper becomes even more of a distraction than he already is.

The problem, of course, will be finding a trade partner. Teams with possible needs at the position in 2006 include the Jets, Dolphins, Ravens, Browns, Titans, Raiders, Lions, Packers, Saints, and Rams.

Former Vikings offensive coordinator Scott Linehan is the head coach in St. Louis. Linehan was calling the plays in Minnesota when Culpepper put together his MVP-caliber performance in 2004. Moss publicly has indicated that he would welcome Daunte in Oakland. And although the Vikings are unlikely to do a deal within the NFC North, new Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz surely could draw up a playbook suited to Culpepper's unique size and deceptive speed.

We assume that the Cardinals aren't in the mix for Culpepper, given that Kurt Warner recently was signed to a three-year deal worth at least $18 million. We likewise assume that the Vikings made a call or two to Arizona in order to see whether Denny Green, who used the first-round pick obtained from the Redskins for Brad Johnson in 1999 to draft Culpepper, would be interested in a reunion.

Culpepper's health is the primary impediment to any possible trade. If he's never the same guy that he was due to the injury, the second-round pick is wasted. That's why we think the Vikings will be able to move him only in exchange for one or more conditional picks in 2007 or, possibly, 2008. Then, the ultimate value surrendered by the new team would be determined by the extent to which Culpepper can perform following the completion of his rehab.

Another significant glitch that needs to be addressed is Culpepper's $6 million roster bonus, due in early March. Given the uncertainties of the CBA negotiations, it will be hard for any team to justify devoting $8 million in 2006 cap dollars to a player who might not be available to play at all during the coming season.

In the end, the Vikings might not be able to justify it, either. And we wouldn't be shocked if decided to release Culpepper, if they can't get what they want for him in trade.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
The guy had major surgery, he won't likely be able to practice for much of the preseason...no one is going to offer anything close to fair value for him under those circumstances.

Good old PFT :thumbup:

 

Sinrman

Footballguy
Well, even with the QB dibacle in Detroit, I'd be a bit wary of going for Culpepper. The contract issue and injury issue are HUGE ones, and I'd be a bit scared to take that on. If it was just the injury issue or just the contract issue, I'd feel a lot more comfortable, and would love to see him in Detroit. But alas, it is not..

 

BeTheMatch

Let it burn!
Good old PFT :thumbup:
Well, as they mentioned, they broke the Randy Moss trade when most people said it wouldn't happen.I understand they've gotten some things wrong, but I still don't get the jab here. Is it because he has more inside info than FBG?

 

diesel7982

Footballguy
The guy had major surgery, he won't likely be able to practice for much of the preseason...no one is going to offer anything close to fair value for him under those circumstances.

Good old PFT :thumbup:
How dare they report what people are telling them as a RUMOR?Seriously.

 

Koya

Footballguy
I think everyone is jumping off the Culp bandwagon too fast. Obviously having Moss makes any QB that much better, but I truly believe Culpepper has more than enough skill and ability along with experience to be a better than average QB in the league... by a decent margin.

Don't know where he will end up, but if he can get healthy, I'd expect good things from him. Might not be all of next year depending on the recovery, but I wouldnt mind having Culp on my team.

The Jets could certainly do worse, btw.

 

fruity pebbles

Footballguy
So a team gets to pick up his 10 year 100 million dollar contract, plus they have to give up a second rounder for the privilage to do so? I'm sure they're lining up at the door.

 

ZebraHunter

Footballguy
MIN is asking a 2nd rounder.

If Pepper's rehab is progressing, a thrid rounder is very cheap for any team, especially AZ.

Denny drafted him, so...if u take that bet...u'll lose.

A franchise QB with a 3rd rounder? R U kidding me? Slam Dunk! Ask any GM!

 
M

MLBrandow

Guest
kurt warner sucks
yeah, and here's why.http://sportsforum.ws/attachment.php?attac...=1&d=1140069767

You can't break your throwing hand in so many places (over a given period of time) and expect to just be Superman again.

Kurt warner fumbles because he can't grip the ball, because his hand is mangled crap.

Here's to another losing season for Arizona.

Next year they'll be more than willing to give up that 2nd for him.

 
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BlueOnion

Footballguy
Interesting. Long time Culpepper (going back to Central Florida) fan, but his career in Minnesota has run it's course, ala Randy Moss. Childress is now in town and the Vikings would be better served not to commit so much salary cap money to a guy who has yet to work with Childress.

2nd round pick? Seems light as a Viking fan but I think this is a realistic expectation. I might even feel good about two third round picks.

 

jgb95

Footballguy
Kurt warners deal might be a glorified one or two year deal.

Then Pep will be healthy!

For a 3rd rounder it might actually be worth it. It's like taking DJ Shockley in the 3rd. It's a risk but might just pay off for the future!!!

 

Uruk-Hai

Footballguy
Rumor running around Baltimore is that the Ravens have been offered a 2nd for Ray Lewis.

Would Lewis for 'Pepper make any sense at all?

 

MrPhoenix

Ron Paul Soldier
Why da hell would the Rams be interested in Lollipopper? We already have a solid QB in Bulger!

If I were them, I'd spend that 2nd on Ray Lewis.

 

BeTheMatch

Let it burn!
wow - the Star Tribune is now running with this story - http://www.startribune.com/510/story/250717.html
I love it. The Vikings beat writer for the main stream media like the Star-Tribune is now citing profootballtalk.com as a "well-connected website."Seems like a lot of people around here, starting with Jason Wood, need to start changing their tune.

Whether a trade actually happens or not is irrelevant, as PFT's report was that the Vikings are simply shopping him, which apparently is 100 percent true.

Where's that eating crow smiley???

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
Obviously having Moss makes any QB that much better.
2004 Kerry Collins: 250 passing yards, 1.5 TD per game without Moss2005 Kerry Collins: 250 passing yards, 1.3 TD per game with Moss
Yeah, because Moss played every game perfectly healthy last year :rolleyes: It's also quite convenient how you left off INTs, which were 1.53 without Moss and 0.73 with him.

Collins' stats by game before Moss got hurt were:

265yds 3td 0int

263yds 1td 0int

345yds 2td 0int

 
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BeTheMatch

Let it burn!
Obviously having Moss makes any QB that much better.
2004 Kerry Collins: 250 passing yards, 1.5 TD per game without Moss2005 Kerry Collins: 250 passing yards, 1.3 TD per game with Moss
Yeah, because Moss played every game perfectly healthy last year :rolleyes: It's also quite convenient how you left off INTs, which were 1.53 without Moss and 0.73 with him.

Collins' stats by game before Moss got hurt were:

265yds 3td 0int

263yds 1td 0int

345yds 2td 0int
:own3d:
 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
Obviously having Moss makes any QB that much better.
2004 Kerry Collins: 250 passing yards, 1.5 TD per game without Moss2005 Kerry Collins: 250 passing yards, 1.3 TD per game with Moss
Yeah, because Moss played every game perfectly healthy last year :rolleyes: It's also quite convenient how you left off INTs, which were 1.53 without Moss and 0.73 with him.

Collins' stats by game before Moss got hurt were:

265yds 3td 0int

263yds 1td 0int

345yds 2td 0int
Moss played in every game last year, so he couldn't have been deathly ill. Those first 3 games were against the 31st, 30th, and 21st ranked passing defenses, and that likely had a lot to do with it. But to play this out anyway . . .Collins numbers past the first 3 games with a "healthy" Moss . . .

240 passing yards, 1.2 TD, 1 INT

Certainly the same argument could be made for Culpepper in 2004.

C-Pep's numbers with Moss out or "unhealthy" . . .

268 passing yards, 1.9 TD, 0. 7 INT

A healthy Moss should make his QB put up better numbers, but I'm not sure that the impact is as great as some like to think it is.

 

UnknownCoach

Footballguy
The asking price isnt much of an issue if its only a second round pick. The price is obviously negotiable. Miami paid that much for AJ Feeley.

Any team that is looking to the future at QB has to be willing to evaluate Culpepper's injury for themselves. It wont take Culpepper as long as Leinhart or Vince Young to start producing. Any of the teams mentioned would seem to have a better chance contending in 2007 with Culpepper than anybody else they can get. In the meantime he would greatly improve the depth of any of those teams.

The biggest issue is of course money. The guy wants more than he's currently getting and that aint cheap. Minnesota could afford to eat the 6 million and then trade him but that's a heavy price to pay for an extra second round pick. If the idea is to trade him in order to avoid the bonus that limits the number of teams who can afford him. Most teams have their own cap problems. Culpepper could restructure but he's representing himself and it sounds like he has no clue what he's doing unless its trying to get out of Minnesota. His options do look a lot better if he is cut.

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
Rumor running around Baltimore is that the Ravens have been offered a 2nd for Ray Lewis.

Would Lewis for 'Pepper make any sense at all?
I have two Vikings acquisitions on my wax board at work, one of which is Ray Lewis. I think Ray Lewis is a perfect match for the Vikings, he would fill so many different roles the Vikings currently lack on defense.I think Lewis ending up in Minnesota is at a 75% liklihood to happen.

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
The biggest issue is of course money. The guy wants more than he's currently getting and that aint cheap.
I genuinely think Culpepper wants out, so his asking price may actually be less if Culpepper is negogiating with a team in which he wants to play for.
 

Family Matters

Footballguy
Mike & Mike just called PFT a "well connected" web site.

So either other media has decided this site has credibility or they are willing to risk being wrong just to get it on the air before other main stream media does. Is this what it's come down to?

 
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Uruk-Hai

Footballguy
Rumor running around Baltimore is that the Ravens have been offered a 2nd for Ray Lewis.

Would Lewis for 'Pepper make any sense at all?
I have two Vikings acquisitions on my wax board at work, one of which is Ray Lewis. I think Ray Lewis is a perfect match for the Vikings, he would fill so many different roles the Vikings currently lack on defense.I think Lewis ending up in Minnesota is at a 75% liklihood to happen.
Would the Vikes trade Culpepper straight up for Lewis (assuming both are in good health)?
 

BeTheMatch

Let it burn!
The biggest issue is of course money. The guy wants more than he's currently getting and that aint cheap.
I genuinely think Culpepper wants out, so his asking price may actually be less if Culpepper is negogiating with a team in which he wants to play for.
Agreed. I think it's all a ploy by Daunte to force the Vikings to deal him.
 

John 14:6

Jesus is Lord!
First we lose Moss, now Culpepper :wall:

I wish they'd keep Daunte AND get Ray Lewis. That'd be SWEET!

I understand Daunte feels the MN media and fans weren't all that great to him, but does he really think it'll get any better elsewhere? He had some great seasons and I think he's an awesome QB, but he can't play like he did last year and have seasons with tons of turnovers and expect everyone to be happy about it.

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
Rumor running around Baltimore is that the Ravens have been offered a 2nd for Ray Lewis.

Would Lewis for 'Pepper make any sense at all?
I have two Vikings acquisitions on my wax board at work, one of which is Ray Lewis. I think Ray Lewis is a perfect match for the Vikings, he would fill so many different roles the Vikings currently lack on defense.I think Lewis ending up in Minnesota is at a 75% liklihood to happen.
Would the Vikes trade Culpepper straight up for Lewis (assuming both are in good health)?
Since I am not part of the Vikings' front office team, I am speculating here. But I would say 'yes'. I think mutually this makes sense, Lewis and Culpepper apparently want to leave their respective clubs, they both have significant salaries and both clubs apparently want to move the respective player. In addition, Baltimore needs to make a spash at quarterback (for their fans) and Minnesota needs to make a splash at linebacker (for their fans). You have Billick in Baltimore, who could entice the transition for Culpepper. For Lewis in Minnesota, he would be the defensive leader (no questions asked) and it would definitely be 'his defense'. For playing conditions, Ray Lewis would have to be thrilled to have a tackle like Pat Williams in front of him. These conditions lead me to believe both clubs would be willing to work out a trade (ala Champ Baily for Clinton Portis and Keyshawn Johnson for Joey Galloway).

The alternative for these clubs (if they don't find other suitors for their respective player), is to release the player. It is one thing to hold on to a disgruntled role player, but disgruntled leaders (who are not a 100% behind the club) are cancerous.

Again, a lot of speculation on my part; take it for what it is worth.

Edited - I would expect this to go through quickly once a new CBA agreement is reached and new contracts could be offered.

 
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BlueOnion

Footballguy
First we lose Moss, now Culpepper :wall:

I wish they'd keep Daunte AND get Ray Lewis. That'd be SWEET!

I understand Daunte feels the MN media and fans weren't all that great to him, but does he really think it'll get any better elsewhere? He had some great seasons and I think he's an awesome QB, but he can't play like he did last year and have seasons with tons of turnovers and expect everyone to be happy about it.
I love Daunte, but he is a moody guy. As a non-partisan Viking fan, he needs a fresh start.
 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
So what would the Vikings do for a back-up/future QB? Draft one?
I have no idea and any comment I would make would be deep speculation. I suspect Brad Johnson for the immediate future ( :X ), a free agent acquisition (maybe a 'Jon Kitna' at best) and a draft pick.I really have no idea. Maybe Childress asks management to make a ploy for the Eagle's backup. :shrug:

However we slice it, the Vikings will have a need and I suspect they will fill it with somebody outside of (Young, Leinert and Cutler).

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
Mike & Mike had "breaking news" this morning about this...and their source? PFT :wall:
That is embarrassing that Mike & Mike (working for ESPN) would consider PFT a legit source.
 

ConstruxBoy

Kate's Daddy
Mike & Mike had "breaking news" this morning about this...and their source? PFT :wall:
That is embarrassing that Mike & Mike (working for ESPN) would consider PFT a legit source.
Wood, if you would only admit that Mike and Mike blow chunks, this wouldn't hurt so much. :yes:
 

BeTheMatch

Let it burn!
Mike & Mike had "breaking news" this morning about this...and their source? PFT :wall:
Wood, maybe you could try to come up with some info instead of constantly bashing a source that is gaining more and more credibility. Just a thought.
 

ConstruxBoy

Kate's Daddy
Mike & Mike had "breaking news" this morning about this...and their source? PFT :wall:
Wood, maybe you could try to come up with some info instead of constantly bashing a source that is gaining more and more credibility. Just a thought.
I thought Diesel was the only PFT apologist around here? :hophead:
 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Mike & Mike had "breaking news" this morning about this...and their source? PFT :wall:
Wood, maybe you could try to come up with some info instead of constantly bashing a source that is gaining more and more credibility. Just a thought.
Hey mnesvig,1) I'm not a journalist, nor do I claim to be

2) Footballguys isn't a football news generator...we DO by virtue of a fantastic staff and even more fantastic collection of Shark Pool participants, have a community that by and large discusses and touches upon the vast majority of football related news items [and our Blogger aggregates the vast NFL related news from a myriad of sources]

3) I make no bones about not being a fan of PFT. I realize there are some that like what they do, and more power to them. They're in no way a "competitor" to what we're doing here; so whether they succeed or fail has little bearing on me or the rest of the staff. My issues with PFT are severalfold...a) I don't think they're very good writers, to a man, b) although they've done a better job of late, they still make far too much out of rumor and innuendo, which makes it much harder to give them credit when in fact they have a legitimate scoop or data point.

To each his own, but when Mike & Mike are referencing the PFT article in breaking news, that disgusts me. Maybe the fault really should lie with Mike & Mike's editors for not making it clear PFT's post was a RUMOR.

 

BeTheMatch

Let it burn!
Mike & Mike had "breaking news" this morning about this...and their source? PFT :wall:
Wood, maybe you could try to come up with some info instead of constantly bashing a source that is gaining more and more credibility. Just a thought.
Hey mnesvig,1) I'm not a journalist, nor do I claim to be

2) Footballguys isn't a football news generator...we DO by virtue of a fantastic staff and even more fantastic collection of Shark Pool participants, have a community that by and large discusses and touches upon the vast majority of football related news items [and our Blogger aggregates the vast NFL related news from a myriad of sources]

3) I make no bones about not being a fan of PFT. I realize there are some that like what they do, and more power to them. They're in no way a "competitor" to what we're doing here; so whether they succeed or fail has little bearing on me or the rest of the staff. My issues with PFT are severalfold...a) I don't think they're very good writers, to a man, b) although they've done a better job of late, they still make far too much out of rumor and innuendo, which makes it much harder to give them credit when in fact they have a legitimate scoop or data point.

To each his own, but when Mike & Mike are referencing the PFT article in breaking news, that disgusts me. Maybe the fault really should lie with Mike & Mike's editors for not making it clear PFT's post was a RUMOR.
Part of the reason ESPN is giving credence to this guy is because he used to work for ESPN and has a relationship with them. In fact, he has passed several tips on to ESPN that have allowed them to "break the story."I just don't see why anyone rips this guy for posting rumors. His site is a self-proclaimed rumor mill. He's not just making stuff up. He's posting what he's heard from his connections. Sometimes the talk he's heard pans out, other times it doesn't. When it doesn't, that doesn't mean he had it wrong.

For instance, if Daunte doesn't get traded, does that mean they weren't looking into it? Of course not. That's all PFT is saying, that the Vikings are exploring trade options.

I just don't get the bashing by you or anyone else.

 

BeTheMatch

Let it burn!
To each his own, but when Mike & Mike are referencing the PFT article in breaking news, that disgusts me. Maybe the fault really should lie with Mike & Mike's editors for not making it clear PFT's post was a RUMOR.
Their news wasn't that the Vikings traded Culpepper. It wasn't that they will trade Culpepper. It was that they are looking into trading Culpepper. I think that is still considered breaking news. How is it any different than if Clayton or Mortensen or Pasquarelli said the Vikings were looking into trading Culpepper? It's not. That would be a rumor, too, unless they specifically have a quote on the record from a Vikings executive, which they wouldn't.
 

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