Cutler and Rivers (1 Viewer)

[T-BONE]

Why is Cutler highter then Rivers in every fantasy season ranking I see?

I just think it's not right based on these 3 points:

1. Last 3 weeks fantasy points: Rivers > Cutler

2. Offensive weapons: Marshal, Royal, Schefler = Chambers, V Jackson, Gates

3. Schedule: Rivers easier than Cutler

Can anyone explain me why the consensus?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

do you mean ranking this week??

Probably because of the raider matchup they expect SD to get out infront and not throw

 

[duece2626]

do you mean ranking this week??Probably because of the raider matchup they expect SD to get out infront and not throw

Couldn't you say the same thing about Denver's matchup with KC?

 

[T-BONE]

do you mean ranking this week??Probably because of the raider matchup they expect SD to get out infront and not throw

No, I meant the entire season.edited the first post.

 

[Banger]

do you mean ranking this week??Probably because of the raider matchup they expect SD to get out infront and not throw

No, I meant the entire season.edited the first post.

Because Cutler > RiversBecause Cutler's supporting talent > ChargersBecause Chargers running game > Denver and Chargers will score more on the groundBecause Chargers defense > Denver defense (not by a lot but it is), therefore Denver will be throwing every game.

 

[Tau837]

Because Chargers running game > Denver and Chargers will score more on the groundBecause Chargers defense > Denver defense (not by a lot but it is), therefore Denver will be throwing every game.

I agree these are valid points.

Because Cutler > RiversBecause Cutler's supporting talent > Chargers.

But I disagree with these. Can you justify these statements?

 

[duece2626]

Denver: 5 rushing TD's

Chargers: 2 rushing TD's

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I think Rivers is making a case that he can be right up there with (or even perform above) Cutler. But I suppose people still think of the Chargers as a run-first team. If LT gets back to speed, he'll have multi-TD games in his future. Won't that affect Rivers on those days? Sure, Pittman can vulture scores but he's not going to break the single-season TD record.

Throw in Marshall and Cutler looks like a safe play most weeks. But you have to be impressed with Rivers right now. He can carry the team on his back. It's just that he won't really need to most of the time.

 

[bonesman]

I think Shanny will sling it more than Norv. Especially after the last two weeks being so close late in the 4th after getting ahead early. Like Cutler put it, "We can't keep doing this every week". So they'll probably keep the throttle on even when up 21 points in the 1st quarter.

 

[Banger]

Because Chargers running game > Denver and Chargers will score more on the groundBecause Chargers defense > Denver defense (not by a lot but it is), therefore Denver will be throwing every game.

I agree these are valid points.

Because Cutler > RiversBecause Cutler's supporting talent > Chargers.

But I disagree with these. Can you justify these statements?

I like Rivers but Cutler has better scramble ability and escapability in the pocket, stronger arm, both are accurate, he's pretty much got it all. I don't know one thing Rivers does better.Marshall >>> ChambersSheffler<<GatesRoyal>=VJax

 

[Banger]

Denver: 5 rushing TD'sChargers: 2 rushing TD's

It's 3 games into the season and the Chargers will run to set up the pass and the Bronc's are going to pass to setup the run.

 

[cubbie5150]

I think Shanny will sling it more than Norv. Especially after the last two weeks being so close late in the 4th after getting ahead early. Like Cutler put it, "We can't keep doing this every week". So they'll probably keep the throttle on even when up 21 points in the 1st quarter.

Shanny is one coach most likely to be like Belicheat & run up the score early in order to prevent his defense losing a game late. As a Cutler/Marshall owner, I hope this is the case...

 

[duece2626]

Denver: 5 rushing TD'sChargers: 2 rushing TD's

It's 3 games into the season and the Chargers will run to set up the pass and the Bronc's are going to pass to setup the run.

Yeah, I realize it's only 3 games. Just throwing out some facts is all.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Why is Cutler highter then Rivers in every fantasy season ranking I see?I just think it's not right based on these 3 points:1. Last 3 weeks fantasy points: Rivers > Cutler2. Offensive weapons: Marshal, Royal, Schefler = Chambers, V Jackson, Gates3. Schedule: Rivers easier than CutlerCan anyone explain me why the consensus?

1. I agree with you on point 12. I don't agree with NO. 2......Gates isn't healthy and Marshall is playing at another level3. Meh, not a huge difference IMOI think you can't go wrong with either of these guys. If they stay healthy, they'll be in the top 5 in fantasy at their positions. If you have either one of these guys on your team, you're probably 2-1 or better if you started them from the beginning.

 

[Tau837]

I like Rivers but Cutler has better scramble ability and escapability in the pocket, stronger arm, both are accurate, he's pretty much got it all. I don't know one thing Rivers does better.

I agree Cutler is a better runner/scrambler and has a stronger arm (though I think Rivers' arm strength is underrated).IMO Rivers is a better leader. (I realize many will disagree.)Rivers makes fewer mistakes:- Rivers turns the ball over less often (better interception rate and the same number of fumbles lost in many more snaps).- Rivers gets sacked less often.

 

[Burning Sensation]

do you mean ranking this week??Probably because of the raider matchup they expect SD to get out infront and not throw

No, I meant the entire season.edited the first post.

Because Cutler > RiversBecause Cutler's supporting talent > ChargersBecause Chargers running game > Denver and Chargers will score more on the groundBecause Chargers defense > Denver defense (not by a lot but it is), therefore Denver will be throwing every game.

especially Cutler>Rivers. Rivers is a good QB who is benefiting from a good situation, Cutler is just that good of a QB, and the best is yet to come.

 

[shredhead]

IMO Rivers is a better leader. (I realize many will disagree.)

At least you realize it.

- Rivers gets sacked less often.

Has Rivers been sacked less than 0 times this season?

 

[Tau837]

IMO Rivers is a better leader. (I realize many will disagree.)

At least you realize it.

:(I realize that Rivers has played on a better team, but that doesn't change the fact that he has been a strong leader on a team that made a deep playoff run and Cutler hasn't. Rivers' playoff performance last year, especially playing less than a week after knee surgery, emphasized his leadership role on the team. Cutler may ultimately prove to be a great leader, but we don't really know at this point.

- Rivers gets sacked less often.

Has Rivers been sacked less than 0 times this season?

That is a curious question, since Cutler has been sacked once this season. However, I'm not talking about only this season. All of my comments are based on their full careers. If we want to talk just about this season, Rivers has outperformed Cutler thus far.

 

[Buffaloes]

I like Rivers but Cutler has better scramble ability and escapability in the pocket, stronger arm, both are accurate, he's pretty much got it all. I don't know one thing Rivers does better.

I agree Cutler is a better runner/scrambler and has a stronger arm (though I think Rivers' arm strength is underrated).IMO Rivers is a better leader. (I realize many will disagree.)

Rivers makes fewer mistakes:

- Rivers turns the ball over less often (better interception rate and the same number of fumbles lost in many more snaps).

- Rivers gets sacked less often.

Cutler hasn't been sacked yet this year unless you count that fumble play against San Diego.

 

[Tau837]

I like Rivers but Cutler has better scramble ability and escapability in the pocket, stronger arm, both are accurate, he's pretty much got it all. I don't know one thing Rivers does better.

I agree Cutler is a better runner/scrambler and has a stronger arm (though I think Rivers' arm strength is underrated).IMO Rivers is a better leader. (I realize many will disagree.)

Rivers makes fewer mistakes:

- Rivers turns the ball over less often (better interception rate and the same number of fumbles lost in many more snaps).

- Rivers gets sacked less often.

Cutler hasn't been sacked yet this year unless you count that fumble play against San Diego.

As I already posted, my comments were about their careers to date, not just this season. If we were talking only about this season, there is no question Rivers has outperformed Cutler thus far.

 

[Buffaloes]

I like Rivers but Cutler has better scramble ability and escapability in the pocket, stronger arm, both are accurate, he's pretty much got it all. I don't know one thing Rivers does better.

I agree Cutler is a better runner/scrambler and has a stronger arm (though I think Rivers' arm strength is underrated).IMO Rivers is a better leader. (I realize many will disagree.)

Rivers makes fewer mistakes:

- Rivers turns the ball over less often (better interception rate and the same number of fumbles lost in many more snaps).

- Rivers gets sacked less often.

Cutler hasn't been sacked yet this year unless you count that fumble play against San Diego.

As I already posted, my comments were about their careers to date, not just this season. If we were talking only about this season, there is no question Rivers has outperformed Cutler thus far.

Well, if you are going off career sacks, go ahead and take into consideration the fact that much of Denver's OL was injured last year and that Cutler was playing with an undiagnosed diabetic condition. As for your second statement, how has Rivers so greatly outperformed Cutler so far this year? Please do tell because if we are speaking from a statistical standpoint, I don't see it. If we are talking from a win-loss standpoint, I don't see it.

 

[T-BONE]

I like Rivers but Cutler has better scramble ability and escapability in the pocket, stronger arm, both are accurate, he's pretty much got it all. I don't know one thing Rivers does better.

I agree Cutler is a better runner/scrambler and has a stronger arm (though I think Rivers' arm strength is underrated).IMO Rivers is a better leader. (I realize many will disagree.)

Rivers makes fewer mistakes:

- Rivers turns the ball over less often (better interception rate and the same number of fumbles lost in many more snaps).

- Rivers gets sacked less often.

Cutler hasn't been sacked yet this year unless you count that fumble play against San Diego.

As I already posted, my comments were about their careers to date, not just this season. If we were talking only about this season, there is no question Rivers has outperformed Cutler thus far.

Well, if you are going off career sacks, go ahead and take into consideration the fact that much of Denver's OL was injured last year and that Cutler was playing with an undiagnosed diabetic condition. As for your second statement, how has Rivers so greatly outperformed Cutler so far this year? Please do tell because if we are speaking from a statistical standpoint, I don't see it. If we are talking from a win-loss standpoint, I don't see it.

What about FANTASY POINTS ?Can you see it?

 

[Tau837]

As for your second statement, how has Rivers so greatly outperformed Cutler so far this year? Please do tell because if we are speaking from a statistical standpoint, I don't see it. If we are talking from a win-loss standpoint, I don't see it.

Well, 3 games is a very small sample size. That said, this year to date:TD percentage: Rivers 10.6% (#1 in the NFL), Cutler 7.4%Yards per attempt: Rivers 9.93 (#1 in the NFL), Cutler 8.46QB rating: Rivers 124.8 (#1 in the NFL), Cutler 110.6Poor throws: Rivers 5.9% (probably #1 in the NFL among qualifiers, but can't find a complete list), Cutler 14.8%If the bad call wasn't made on Rivers' supposed interception in the Denver game, Rivers would have higher completion percentage and lower interception percentage than Cutler. As it is, Cutler has a narrow lead in both:Completion percentage: Cutler 67.6%, Rivers 67.1%Interception percentage: Cutler 1.9%, Rivers 2.4%If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup. Plus, Cutler would have one fewer TD, and 3 total turnovers to Rivers' 2 (or 1, per previous point).On top of all that, Cutler has faced these pass defenses so far: Oakland (#26 in the NFL), San Diego (#31), and New Orleans (#29). Meanwhile, Rivers has faced Carolina (#13), Denver (#32), and the Jets (#21). So Rivers has done it against a harder schedule.

 

[Despyzer]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

1. Last 3 weeks fantasy points: Rivers > Cutler

Depends on your scoring. I have them both on the same team and Cutler outscored Rivers two of the three weeks. And while the margin between them isn't huge, it was slightly more the weeks Cutler was higher (ie I didn't lose much starting Cutler that one week Rivers scoerd more)

 

[Marc Levin]

Because Chargers running game > Denver and Chargers will score more on the groundBecause Chargers defense > Denver defense (not by a lot but it is), therefore Denver will be throwing every game.

I agree these are valid points.

Because Cutler > RiversBecause Cutler's supporting talent > Chargers.

But I disagree with these. Can you justify these statements?

I like Rivers but Cutler has better scramble ability and escapability in the pocket, stronger arm, both are accurate, he's pretty much got it all. I don't know one thing Rivers does better.Marshall >>> ChambersSheffler<<GatesRoyal>=VJax

Plus Darrel Jackson, Brandon Stokely, Keary Colbert, Nate Jackson, Dan Graham > the no-names as third receiver (Osgood, Floyd, Nanee, Davis) and ManamaleunaThe thing Rivers has going for him in fantasy terms are the dump off passes to Sproles and LT should be significantly more productive than Cutler's dump-offs to Pittman/Young/Hall/TorrainThat said, Rivers is having a tremendous season so far. Just Win Baby's points are well taken.

 

[Marc Levin]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

 

[Manster]

Cutler>>Rivers, imo.

 

[Despyzer]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

 

[Marc Levin]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

AFC West Team W L T Pct PF PA Net Pts TD Home Road Div Pct Conf Pct Non-Conf Streak Last 5

Denver Broncos 3 0 0 1.000 114 84 30 14 2-0 1-0 2-0 1.000 2-0 1.000 1-0 3W 3-0

Oakland Raiders 1 2 0 .333 60 73 -13 6 0-1 1-1 1-1 .500 1-2 .333 0-0 1L 1-2

San Diego Chargers 1 2 0 .333 110 94 16 13 1-1 0-1 0-1 .000 1-1 .500 0-1 1W 1-2

Kansas City Chiefs 0 3 0 .000 32 78 -46 4 0-1 0-2 0-1 .000 0-2 .000 0-1 3L 0-3

 

[Despyzer]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

AFC West Team W L T Pct PF PA Net Pts TD Home Road Div Pct Conf Pct Non-Conf Streak Last 5

Denver Broncos 3 0 0 1.000 114 84 30 14 2-0 1-0 2-0 1.000 2-0 1.000 1-0 3W 3-0

Oakland Raiders 1 2 0 .333 60 73 -13 6 0-1 1-1 1-1 .500 1-2 .333 0-0 1L 1-2

San Diego Chargers 1 2 0 .333 110 94 16 13 1-1 0-1 0-1 .000 1-1 .500 0-1 1W 1-2

Kansas City Chiefs 0 3 0 .000 32 78 -46 4 0-1 0-2 0-1 .000 0-2 .000 0-1 3L 0-3

My mistake. I'd just figured you were actually following the games and not just looking at the standings. Sorry about that. I never meant to cause so much confusion in your life.

 

[thatguy]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

You are ridiculous... Simple enough.

 

[Despyzer]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

You are ridiculous... Simple enough.

Okay. I'll bite. Which one of those last two games would Cutler and the Broncos have won if the referees had properly ruled the Cutler fumble or the offsides call, both of which would have effectively ended those games with the Broncos trailing? Take your time.

 

[thatguy]

I like Rivers but Cutler has better scramble ability and escapability in the pocket, stronger arm, both are accurate, he's pretty much got it all. I don't know one thing Rivers does better.

I agree Cutler is a better runner/scrambler and has a stronger arm (though I think Rivers' arm strength is underrated).IMO Rivers is a better leader. (I realize many will disagree.)Rivers makes fewer mistakes:- Rivers turns the ball over less often (better interception rate and the same number of fumbles lost in many more snaps).- Rivers gets sacked less often.

Who is a better leader is not something that is quantifiable. They both lead differently, and by the looks of it, both have the respect of their teammates. Cutler is less outspoken than Rivers, but he certainly is THE leader of that team.Last 19 games (gonna throw out Cutler's rookie season since it's not really fair to compare that to Rivers first season as a starter being as it was his 3rd year in the league): Rivers 17 INTs, 545 attempts, Cutler, 16 INTs, 575 attempts.And others have already mentioned that Jay is simply not getting sacked this season... His offensive line last season was decimated by injuries and therefore never really found a groove as a unit. His offensive line this season has been very, very good.

 

[two_dollars]

Tomlinson >> Young/Pittman/Hall/Torain/Whoever

SD is more Balanced, they will regress to the mean as Tomlinson starts getting hot again.

And Marshall is better than any 2 WR's on SD combined.

 

[thatguy]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

You are ridiculous... Simple enough.

Okay. I'll bite. Which one of those last two games would Cutler and the Broncos have won if the referees had properly ruled the Cutler fumble or the offsides call, both of which would have effectively ended those games with the Broncos trailing? Take your time.

The Chargers game, they would not have won. However, the refs did not win that game for them, they simply gave them another opportunity to win it on their own. You can't tell me that the two plays that Cutler made were not clutch. Of course, I'm sure you WILL tell me that the INT and the fumble were not clutch. I can't disagree with that.The Saints game, there was still over two minutes left. Denver had one timeout and the two minute warning. I believe either the Saints would have scored easily, giving Denver time to drive down the field and score, or they would have pounded it up the gut a few times and settled for a field goal, which they still would have had to make - not a given based on the day Grammatica was having. Denver would have had about a minute at that point to get into field goal range for the win. The way the Saints were running the ball, I think it highly unlikely they would have got another first down if they took this second approach. Look, I'm not saying Denver would have won that game, but it was far from over. Besides, do you know how often neutral zone infractions are not called?Basically, I think you're ridiculous because you are using circumstances and events that were completely out of Jay's control as arguments against him. Yes, he has been a bit lucky. But he has also been a lot good.I think they're both very good QBs who by season's end could be considered great.ETA: I could be wrong about Denver still having the 2 minute warning... Still, the game was not over.

 

[waybackwhen]

Aside from all the stats that everyone has thrown around I am taking Cutler 10 times out of 10 if I had to draft one of the two QB's for the rest of the season. That is all that I need to know.

 

[Despyzer]

Basically, I think you're ridiculous because you are using circumstances and events that were completely out of Jay's control as arguments against him. Yes, he has been a bit lucky. But he has also been a lot good.

I'm not really knocking Cutler at all. He's been exceptionally impressive, especially considering how few starts he has under his belt. It was a Cutler supporter that brought up wins and losses. I was just extending on JWB's point that this year's wins and losses isn't a very good criteria to use. Sorry if that seemed ridiculous.

 

[thatguy]

Basically, I think you're ridiculous because you are using circumstances and events that were completely out of Jay's control as arguments against him. Yes, he has been a bit lucky. But he has also been a lot good.

I'm not really knocking Cutler at all. He's been exceptionally impressive, especially considering how few starts he has under his belt. It was a Cutler supporter that brought up wins and losses. I was just extending on JWB's point that this year's wins and losses isn't a very good criteria to use. Sorry if that seemed ridiculous.

That's okay... I forgive you. I will also add this: In the Saints game, Cutler led Denver on about a five minute drive to inside the Saints 10 yard line before Scheffler fumbled and put the game in the hands of the Denver D. A TD, which they very likely would have got, would have made it a two possession game. I'd say Cutler did all he could in that game to put his team in a position to win.

 

[jonessed]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

You are ridiculous... Simple enough.

Okay. I'll bite. Which one of those last two games would Cutler and the Broncos have won if the referees had properly ruled the Cutler fumble or the offsides call, both of which would have effectively ended those games with the Broncos trailing? Take your time.

The Chargers game, they would not have won. However, the refs did not win that game for them, they simply gave them another opportunity to win it on their own. You can't tell me that the two plays that Cutler made were not clutch. Of course, I'm sure you WILL tell me that the INT and the fumble were not clutch. I can't disagree with that.The Saints game, there was still over two minutes left. Denver had one timeout and the two minute warning. I believe either the Saints would have scored easily, giving Denver time to drive down the field and score, or they would have pounded it up the gut a few times and settled for a field goal, which they still would have had to make - not a given based on the day Grammatica was having. Denver would have had about a minute at that point to get into field goal range for the win. The way the Saints were running the ball, I think it highly unlikely they would have got another first down if they took this second approach. Look, I'm not saying Denver would have won that game, but it was far from over. Besides, do you know how often neutral zone infractions are not called?

Basically, I think you're ridiculous because you are using circumstances and events that were completely out of Jay's control as arguments against him. Yes, he has been a bit lucky. But he has also been a lot good.

I think they're both very good QBs who by season's end could be considered great.

ETA: I could be wrong about Denver still having the 2 minute warning... Still, the game was not over.

This stuff kills me

 

[thatguy]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

You are ridiculous... Simple enough.

Okay. I'll bite. Which one of those last two games would Cutler and the Broncos have won if the referees had properly ruled the Cutler fumble or the offsides call, both of which would have effectively ended those games with the Broncos trailing? Take your time.

The Chargers game, they would not have won. However, the refs did not win that game for them, they simply gave them another opportunity to win it on their own. You can't tell me that the two plays that Cutler made were not clutch. Of course, I'm sure you WILL tell me that the INT and the fumble were not clutch. I can't disagree with that.The Saints game, there was still over two minutes left. Denver had one timeout and the two minute warning. I believe either the Saints would have scored easily, giving Denver time to drive down the field and score, or they would have pounded it up the gut a few times and settled for a field goal, which they still would have had to make - not a given based on the day Grammatica was having. Denver would have had about a minute at that point to get into field goal range for the win. The way the Saints were running the ball, I think it highly unlikely they would have got another first down if they took this second approach. Look, I'm not saying Denver would have won that game, but it was far from over. Besides, do you know how often neutral zone infractions are not called?

Basically, I think you're ridiculous because you are using circumstances and events that were completely out of Jay's control as arguments against him. Yes, he has been a bit lucky. But he has also been a lot good.

I think they're both very good QBs who by season's end could be considered great.

ETA: I could be wrong about Denver still having the 2 minute warning... Still, the game was not over.

This stuff kills me

Is it not true?

 

[jonessed]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

You are ridiculous... Simple enough.

Okay. I'll bite. Which one of those last two games would Cutler and the Broncos have won if the referees had properly ruled the Cutler fumble or the offsides call, both of which would have effectively ended those games with the Broncos trailing? Take your time.

The Chargers game, they would not have won. However, the refs did not win that game for them, they simply gave them another opportunity to win it on their own. You can't tell me that the two plays that Cutler made were not clutch. Of course, I'm sure you WILL tell me that the INT and the fumble were not clutch. I can't disagree with that.The Saints game, there was still over two minutes left. Denver had one timeout and the two minute warning. I believe either the Saints would have scored easily, giving Denver time to drive down the field and score, or they would have pounded it up the gut a few times and settled for a field goal, which they still would have had to make - not a given based on the day Grammatica was having. Denver would have had about a minute at that point to get into field goal range for the win. The way the Saints were running the ball, I think it highly unlikely they would have got another first down if they took this second approach. Look, I'm not saying Denver would have won that game, but it was far from over. Besides, do you know how often neutral zone infractions are not called?

Basically, I think you're ridiculous because you are using circumstances and events that were completely out of Jay's control as arguments against him. Yes, he has been a bit lucky. But he has also been a lot good.

I think they're both very good QBs who by season's end could be considered great.

ETA: I could be wrong about Denver still having the 2 minute warning... Still, the game was not over.

This stuff kills me

Is it not true?

You don't get another opportunity to win it on your own. The very nature of that statement acknowledges that they did not win on their own.

 

[Tau837]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

You are ridiculous... Simple enough.

Okay. I'll bite. Which one of those last two games would Cutler and the Broncos have won if the referees had properly ruled the Cutler fumble or the offsides call, both of which would have effectively ended those games with the Broncos trailing? Take your time.

The Chargers game, they would not have won. However, the refs did not win that game for them, they simply gave them another opportunity to win it on their own. You can't tell me that the two plays that Cutler made were not clutch. Of course, I'm sure you WILL tell me that the INT and the fumble were not clutch. I can't disagree with that.The Saints game, there was still over two minutes left. Denver had one timeout and the two minute warning. I believe either the Saints would have scored easily, giving Denver time to drive down the field and score, or they would have pounded it up the gut a few times and settled for a field goal, which they still would have had to make - not a given based on the day Grammatica was having. Denver would have had about a minute at that point to get into field goal range for the win. The way the Saints were running the ball, I think it highly unlikely they would have got another first down if they took this second approach. Look, I'm not saying Denver would have won that game, but it was far from over. Besides, do you know how often neutral zone infractions are not called?

Basically, I think you're ridiculous because you are using circumstances and events that were completely out of Jay's control as arguments against him. Yes, he has been a bit lucky. But he has also been a lot good.

I think they're both very good QBs who by season's end could be considered great.

ETA: I could be wrong about Denver still having the 2 minute warning... Still, the game was not over.

I think you have your facts incorrect about the Saints game. If I am not mistaken, the contentious no call occurred on the 3rd and 1 play that immediately preceded Gramatica's last missed FG. Denver had no timeouts remaining.Had the penalty been called, the Saints would have had a first down at the Denver 19. The play in question occurred with 2:19 remaining, but the Saints could have chosen to let the clock wind down to the two minute warning after the refs spotted the ball after the penalty. Then they could have run 3 plays that stayed inbounds, and taken the clock down far enough to ensure the FG attempt was the final play. (New Orleans had a timeout remaining, in case they needed to use it to stop the clock prior to the FG.)

Saints-Broncos Game Play by Play

Screen Shot of the Penalty

Does that guarantee the Saints would have won? No. But they would have had a closer FG attempt, which would seem to make it more likely that Grammatica would have made the kick.

Regardless, I don't think it is appropriate to give Cutler more credit than Rivers for winning this season. Rivers has outplayed him, and Denver has been extremely lucky to get 2 of their 3 wins. And especially considering Cutler was responsible for the error in the win over the Chargers that should have sealed a loss for a Denver and the win for the Chargers.

 

[Despyzer]

Is it not true?

I think his point is that if the referee made the correct call, the Chargers get four downs to run out a minute on the clock with the lead. Referees really shouldn't be in the business of continually giving another chance to win it on their own.That being said, as a Chargers fan I do not blame that loss on the Ed Hochuli. San Diego's defense had no business letting Denver drive down the field like that when the Chargers had everything going their way in the fourth quarter.

 

[thatguy]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

You are ridiculous... Simple enough.

Okay. I'll bite. Which one of those last two games would Cutler and the Broncos have won if the referees had properly ruled the Cutler fumble or the offsides call, both of which would have effectively ended those games with the Broncos trailing? Take your time.

The Chargers game, they would not have won. However, the refs did not win that game for them, they simply gave them another opportunity to win it on their own. You can't tell me that the two plays that Cutler made were not clutch. Of course, I'm sure you WILL tell me that the INT and the fumble were not clutch. I can't disagree with that.The Saints game, there was still over two minutes left. Denver had one timeout and the two minute warning. I believe either the Saints would have scored easily, giving Denver time to drive down the field and score, or they would have pounded it up the gut a few times and settled for a field goal, which they still would have had to make - not a given based on the day Grammatica was having. Denver would have had about a minute at that point to get into field goal range for the win. The way the Saints were running the ball, I think it highly unlikely they would have got another first down if they took this second approach. Look, I'm not saying Denver would have won that game, but it was far from over. Besides, do you know how often neutral zone infractions are not called?

Basically, I think you're ridiculous because you are using circumstances and events that were completely out of Jay's control as arguments against him. Yes, he has been a bit lucky. But he has also been a lot good.

I think they're both very good QBs who by season's end could be considered great.

ETA: I could be wrong about Denver still having the 2 minute warning... Still, the game was not over.

This stuff kills me

Is it not true?

You don't shouldn't get another opportunity to win it on your own. The very nature of that statement acknowledges that they did not win on their own.

Fixed. Clearly, every now and then, you do get another opportunity.

 

[jonessed]

You don't shouldn't get another opportunity to win it on your own. The very nature of that statement acknowledges that they did not win on their own.

Fixed. Clearly, every now and then, you do get another opportunity.

Maybe this will helpYou don't get another opportunity to win it on your own. The very nature of that statement acknowledges that they did not win on their own.

 

[thatguy]

You don't shouldn't get another opportunity to win it on your own. The very nature of that statement acknowledges that they did not win on their own.

Fixed. Clearly, every now and then, you do get another opportunity.

Maybe this will helpYou don't get another opportunity to win it on your own. The very nature of that statement acknowledges that they did not win on their own.

Do you really want to argue semantics? Because if you do PM me and I'll explain. Otherwise, take it easy...

 

[StrikeS2k]

You don't shouldn't get another opportunity to win it on your own. The very nature of that statement acknowledges that they did not win on their own.

Fixed. Clearly, every now and then, you do get another opportunity.

Maybe this will helpYou don't get another opportunity to win it on your own. The very nature of that statement acknowledges that they did not win on their own.

Do you really want to argue semantics? Because if you do PM me and I'll explain. Otherwise, take it easy...

It's not semantics. If someone not on your team helps you you're not winning it on your own. Damn, I'm a Denver homer and even I can acknowledge that.

 

[thatguy]

You don't shouldn't get another opportunity to win it on your own. The very nature of that statement acknowledges that they did not win on their own.

Fixed. Clearly, every now and then, you do get another opportunity.

Maybe this will helpYou don't get another opportunity to win it on your own. The very nature of that statement acknowledges that they did not win on their own.

Do you really want to argue semantics? Because if you do PM me and I'll explain. Otherwise, take it easy...

It's not semantics. If someone not on your team helps you you're not winning it on your own. Damn, I'm a Denver homer and even I can acknowledge that.

Yes, it is semantics. Do you really want to keep this going? PM me if you want to discuss it. It is pointless to have it in this thread.

 

[Marc Levin]

If the bad call wasn't made on Cutler's fumble, Rivers and Cutler would both be 2-1, with Rivers having won the head-to-head matchup.

Throw in the botched call that gave the game to the Broncos last week and Cutler looks that much worse in this category.

Very

Really? If not for the refs blowing calls that would have ordinarily ended the games resulting in Broncos' losses, Cutler's team would be 1-2 and Rivers' would be 2-1. Hence, Cutler's record in regards to wins and losses this year would not be as good as Rivers. Simple enough.

AFC West Team W L T Pct PF PA Net Pts TD Home Road Div Pct Conf Pct Non-Conf Streak Last 5

Denver Broncos 3 0 0 1.000 114 84 30 14 2-0 1-0 2-0 1.000 2-0 1.000 1-0 3W 3-0

Oakland Raiders 1 2 0 .333 60 73 -13 6 0-1 1-1 1-1 .500 1-2 .333 0-0 1L 1-2

San Diego Chargers 1 2 0 .333 110 94 16 13 1-1 0-1 0-1 .000 1-1 .500 0-1 1W 1-2

Kansas City Chiefs 0 3 0 .000 32 78 -46 4 0-1 0-2 0-1 .000 0-2 .000 0-1 3L 0-3

My mistake. I'd just figured you were actually following the games and not just looking at the standings. Sorry about that. I never meant to cause so much confusion in your life.

If you think the refs gave Denver the Saints game, you are not being objective.Shall we micro-dissect every call in every game and then make hypothetical judgments about the winners? You are just being a hater. Not sure of what - the Broncos or Cutler - but your point stinks.

I give you the Charger's game - not the Saints.