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Damien Harris - In the doghouse with his fumble? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Goooals
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
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I think it would do you well to review Harris Pff grade, and review some highlights of his from last year. I think you are not giving him enough credit.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Well aware of them...big fan of my PFF subscription, they do great work.
I'm obviously very high on Stevenson's ability to run the football.(compared to the consensus)
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
IMO, NE will look at the Stevenson fumble and missed block as a direct cause to Harris' fumbling late in the game. If Stevenson was competent and did his job, he wouldn't have been benched and Harris wouldn't have be gassed with 25 touches. Harris still way higher on the Patriots RB pecking order than Stevenson. Way higher.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Agree that Harris is significantly higher than Stevenson now, even though he is an inferior runner of the ball when compared to Stevenson.
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dcgangstas
Footballguy
You won't see a better power run than the 27-yard TD that Dame Harris just rolled on the Jets.
Kid is for real.
Kid is for real.
Timmay
Footballguy
dcgangstas said:
Fantastic Run.
Now he needs more touches. I didn't like how Harris wasn't in the game for the redzone early in the game which led to the White TD. He did get the touches late however but failed to punch it in. Belichick using Taylor and White stealing a TD early is a little worrisome.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Welcome to the Patriots RBBC. The only way out is for Harris to generate gawdy stats and win the bellcow role, which happens in NE but not that often.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
He's not going to get more touches. He is a 15-16 touch back that so far hasn't really been active as a receiver. That's how BB uses him . . . when he got 10 more touches last week he was gassed, tapped out of the game, and fumbled the game away when he went back in.
This really isn't news. NE has been doing the same thing rotating their backs and giving guys specific roles for 15 years. Stevenson will be back and contributing some soon enough, once he gets out of time out for being bad.
One not great situation for Harris and something to monitor is he had a 35 yard run in Week 1 and a 26 yard run in Week 2. But in 37 other carries, he's only racked up 101 yards (2.7 ypc). The big runs are nice, but getting less than 3 yards a carry can be a drive killer.
That's not all his fault . . . rookie QB, OL issues, conservative play calling, etc. all factor into that. But the strength of the offense was supposed to be the running game to set up play action. NE hasn't done very well in the red zone so far. They rank 31st in the league in TD conversion and already have 7 FG but only 3 offensive TD.
Clearly the NE offense is a work in progress and will evolve as the season goes on. But they only rank 23rd in both offensive yardage and points scored. Factor in there are a lot of mouths to feed and at least for now not a lot of production to go around and it's easy to see most NE skilled position players having mediocre numbers to start the year. I expect the Pats offense to end up pretty middle of the road by the end of the year (say ranked 15-17th) . . . but for now they are still figuring things out.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Dumb take on my part. Of course they would let the veteran Harris out and make the rookie Rhamondre think about what he has done for another week. I have to think he breaks out in week 3.
....and will probably get all of two carries on double-secret probation.
The problem with the 2.7 ypc observation is how they are calling the plays. They insisted on running between the tackles despite the Jets playing stoutly up the middle. There is, and has always been, the element that Belichick likes wearing down a defense and capitalizing late. He did it with Antwan Smith back in the day and he’s done it ever since. I think most teams would not consider the Pats running game as electric and shifty. It is power football between the tackles wether it is two yards a carry or better. So it isn’t shocking to me that you have nine carrier of 2.7 ypc and then one that cracks the worn down defense for 25 yards.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Obviously it is hard to make long-term conclusions off of only two games. Last week it was the opposite. The Dolphins had DBs staying home at the LOS and any pitches or runs off tackle went nowhere. This week it was the line was clogged the OL didn't get much push and couldn't move guys around.
The point being, BB, JMD, and Jones need to better identify where the defenders are and adjust plays accordingly. That is probably a tough ask for Jones to know all that, so the coaching staff needs to do better finding the best play calls for the defensive fronts they have been seeing.
rockaction
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
D.Harris right guard to NE 29 for 4 yards (B.Hall).
D.Harris right guard to NE 37 for 1 yard (Q.Williams).
D.Harris right guard to NYJ 26 for 9 yards (Qu.Williams; A.Colbert).
D.Harris up the middle to NYJ 24 for 2 yards (C.Mosley, J.Franklin-Myers).
D.Harris up the middle to NYJ 33 for 2 yards (M.Maye).
D.Harris left end to NE 40 for 2 yards (C.Mosley).
D.Harris up the middle to NE 35 for 4 yards (B.Huff).
D. Harris left guard 26 Yd Run (Nick Folk PAT failed)
D.Harris right guard to NE 48 for -1 yards (S.Lawson).
D.Harris left guard to NE 22 for 1 yard (C.Mosley).
D.Harris left guard to NYJ 20 for 5 yards (J.Guidry).
D.Harris right tackle to NYJ 22 for -2 yards (B.Hall).
D.Harris right guard to NYJ 10 for 12 yards (M.Maye).
D.Harris left tackle to NYJ 2 for 3 yards (C.Mosley, A.Colbert).
D.Harris up the middle to NYJ 3 for -1 yards (D.Phillips).
D.Harris left end to NYJ 8 for -5 yards (S.Lawson; Qu.Williams).
Boston
Footballguy
Beating a dead horse but would really like to see a legit multi-dimensional RB on this team...I really like Harris but looks we are gonna travel that same path as some previous RBs of when he is in the D knows it is gonna be a run...I love how Mac is playing but he is a rookie and you may not get away with some of the stuff you did with #12.
Thanks. Btw, where can I look to find these lists?
Anyways, his top 3 rushes went for 47 yards, or 15 yards per carry.
His 13 other carries went for 25 yards, or 2 yards per carry.
I think Belichick believes the 13 carries of 2 yards on average wear down the defense to get the 15 yards on average carries. So I doubt we see this trend change anytime soon.
Just like the short passing game. He wants keep their defense on the field running around to wear them down. Then when tired hopefully they find a long one due to breakdowns. That worked with the Hunter Henry seam catch. But probably game script kept the Pats from throwing down field much.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I watched / listened to a variety of shows this past week and a couple things stood out to me. The Boston sports media really has a thing about BB and can't wait for him to be gone, as lots of folks were banging the drum that Bill is nothing without TB12. The best one was that Rex Ryan has a better record than Bill does without Tom and that makes Ryan a better head coach.
But the one that didn't make any sense at all was people comparing Jones right now to Brady in his prime. Callers would point out that Brady didn't do much his first few games and the response was the game is way different now and you have to compare how QBs do now, not what they did 20 years ago. That then led into how TB12 is doing in Tampa and Jones is nowhere near that. I finally had to turn it off because the whole discussion went off the rails. Not sure how any sane person expects Jones to be Brady in his prime or as a 20+ year veteran.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I pulled the Harris plays from the play by play listing from the box score. You can find them on ESPN or PFR.
Seems like work. I was hoping some place has charts you can look at. Thanks for making the list!
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I don't actually think BB sees this the same way as you do. Harris only had 8 carries through the first 3 quarters. He got 8 carries in the 4th quarter for 13 yards. They were only looking to run out the clock and not turn the ball over. The bigger take away is he only got 8 carries in 3 quarters.
In general, if Harris is only getting less than 2 yards a carry on 81% of his carries, they are better off passing on those plays. An incompletion is almost the same as gaining only a yard and a half. They have to do better running on early downs or they are going to make life way more difficult for Jones.
He also left for a while because he ran up the middle and hit a brick wall of beef in the Jets interior DL. He left in favor of Taylor and White for a couple/few series. But having said that I agree. A multipurpose three downer won’t Telegraph our plays. Which is why Burkhead was efficient when healthy. But I doubt we get that. We will continue to run two backs on first and second down, and the White comes in.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
This is a bit short sighted IMO. White quietly has 12 receptions, 126 YFS, and a TD so far (RB9 in PPR leagues heading into MNF). Harris is RB16. Stevenson and Taylor are both potentially capable backs. But the offense overall isn't great so far, they are rolling with a rookie QB, they can't get in the end zone, and the RB workload is going to be split among multiple backs.
So not a lot has changed since before the season. Harris is mostly a 15 carry back, not a lot of receiving value, and probably few easy TD chances. How people value that is up to them. But at this stage Harris' value has mostly come from breaking a big play each week, and if those dry up he may be a JAG that week.
Boston
Footballguy
The people who want BB gone are absolute fools...I know the loudest chorus is a certain afternoon radio show but I really don't take them seriously as negativity is their schtick...I think when you look at BB you have to separate the Coach from the GM...the Coach is the best ever...the GM definitely has made his share of mistakes and I do think he will need to change a little now that #12 is gone (and he has based on their recent spending spree) but there is still no one else I would rather have...as for the Jones/TB12 comparison, I hear that as well and anyone who makes it is a moron...Jones is a rookie and to compare him to the best ever at his prime is laughable but IMO this is one of the reasons why Jones is such a great fit for the Pats...you can already see he knows how to play the media game and this is a very important thing in Boston because if you don't you will get swallowed up.
Overall you need to take your media takes with a grain of salt based on who they are...when I hear Curran, Reiss, Giardi, Perry and Bedard speak or write I know it is well thought out and not schtick...if it is the radio show I referenced I know it is bomb throwing or if it is someone like Volin or Bean I just dismiss it as I just don't think they really know what they are talking about.
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The Felger and Mazz show is horrible. I can’t take 95% of what they say seriously. I avoid it now, unless I need my blood pressure elevated.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The one making the rounds last week that I didn't quite understand was the media constantly pointing out their overall record from the second half of the 2019 season until now, both overall and in 1 score games. I get it, they haven't been good. But they have had Brady, Newton, and Jones at QB, had a ton of opt outs last year, and have so many different faces in the huddle on both sides of the ball now that they aren't even comparing apples to another fruit at this point.
Don't get me wrong, they are a log way away from being consistently good and winning with regularity. The defense still struggles against the run. They commit too many penalties. Their OT, CB, and WR situations aren't great. They give up chunk plays on 3rd and a country mile all the time. And they look like they don't remember how to play football in the red zone. And what happened to Jakobi Meyers? I thought he was going to be the Welker / Edelman / glue guy? He's been quiet so far.
They will almost certainly get better at a lot of those things, but they need to do a better job blocking or Jones is going to need his own whirlpool and may not make it through the season. Not really news here, but defenses are going to blitz a rookie QB, especially one that has an OL with injury issues.
But Jones has been steady and looks like he knows what he is doing most of the time. One play a game so far he looks lost (the backwards pass to spike the ball last week and the intentional grounding call this week). But consider . . .
Wilson - 5 INT in 70 attempts
Lawrence - 5 INT in 84 attempts
Fields - 1 INT in 15 attempts
Jones - 0 INT in 69 attempts
As long as he isn't giving the ball away, they should at least be competitive.
This has been much better then last year, when I think one out of every three drop backs our QB did something unexpected. Jones is just keeping it simple, taking what they give him, and not making risky decisions for the most part. I feel much less anxious then when we had Newton in there.
Boston
Footballguy
When you look at last year’s roster which was a train wreck and knowing they are in a post-Brady rebuild I am totally fine with where they are right now…right off the bat they have taken care of the QB position which is the most important thing and will now not hold them hostage and allow them to move forward…their drafting the past two years appears to be better and it is pretty much so far so good with what they brought in in free agency…this team is still not ready to compete for a title but I think 10 wins is realistic and if the likes of Jones, Barmore, Duggar, Onwenu, Uche and Stevenson are developing this season will be a success and than the hope is they are one more good offseason from getting to that next level.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I definitely feel more confident in . . .
Jones throwing to Smith, Henry, Agholor, Meyers, and Borne than
Newton throwing to Meyers, Byrd, Harry, Izzo, and LaCosse than
Brady throwing to Edelman, Harry, Sanu, Dorsett, and Watson.
People forgot that once Brown and Gordon left town, Brady had Edelman and the guy in Section 110, Row 4, Seat 7 to throw to. Certainly I would rather have Brady still around, but that was an unlikely outcome given how all sides were pretty miserable. We'll have to see if Jones can do more, stay healthy, and the guys they surrounded him are good enough to win. At this point I think they are good enough to be competitive most weeks, and the last two years that part was definitely always in doubt.
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