***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (1 Viewer)

[Faust]

Fantasy Week: The value of David Wilson

By Dan Graziano | ESPN.com

David Wilson, a first-round pick from the 2012 NFL draft, is going to be the New York Giants' starting running back this year. We think. Kind of. But something about this whole situation reminds me of how excited the fantasy football community was about Roy Helu in Washington this time last year. That didn't feel right, and neither does this.

How to lose credibility in a hurry.

Edit: I mean the author of the article, not Faust who is one of the reasons I come to this site.

That columnist is clearly a Bradshaw lover and still cant believe Wilson is the man. He will understand soon enough.

I don't quite get the Helu comparison, but the rest of the article is pretty much spot on. Anyone who is objectively looking at the Giants' RB situation can see that.

A true Wilson "breakout" likely won't arrive unless Brown suffers an injury, which is possible of course.

Considering they had ample opportunity to resign Bradshaw or a whole slew of other RB's (Mendenhall, Wells, Greene, etc), and are riding pretty much Wilson and the brittle Brown, I think a breakout is absolutely going to happen.

The writing on the wall that the writer misses is that he improved enough last year and the offseason to make Bradshaw expendible. The Giants did not let Bradshaw walk hoping Wilson can pass block. Decisions in the NFL aren't made like that. They don't risk the health of their two time SB winning QB with a guy they hope can figure it out sometime this season.

You may be right about the rationale for letting Bradshaw walk. I can't help think that his mouth and perpetual injuries may have factored in too though. Some of the FAs you named (and I realize it wasn't intended to be an exhaustive list) have their own issues with age/cost and being brittle as well so arguably they may not have been viewed as solutions to the "Bradshaw problem".

I just get a sense of deja vu here with last year's Wilson thread where he was either a non-factor or about to be let off his leash (depending on who you talked to).

The Giants are one of the smarter teams in the league in terms of Front Office and coaching moves. They DEFINITELY didn't let Bradshaw walk without trusting in Wilson being their workhorse. They aren't stupid either, they are well aware that Brown has a high history of injuries and may not be able to be counted on as much as last season. Lets look at the pros and cons of Wilson right now just his situation.

PROS:

1) They cut their starting running back and immediately named him the starter. There was no "This will be a camp competition between Wilson and Brown". Wilson is being handed the job. The Giants don't hand jobs to people lightly, they have to prove it.

2) They didn't even attempt to interview or try out any of the big name veterans that moved this year. Turner, Jackson, Bush etc. they didn't even try or care. So for the people making the argument that Bradshaw was released for 'cap reasons' that's just ridiculous. There are plenty of RBs they could have signed or at least attempted to sign and simply didn't bother. Not to mention after Bradshaw cleared waivers they could have resigned him if they wanted him back.

3) There is this misconception that the Giants have always been a pass first team. This simply isn't true up until the past two seasons the Giants were a Top 5 rushing team every single year and averaged a balanced 50/50 run/pass ratio in those years prior. This is the approach they prefer, the past two seasons have been pass first for necessity as their run game has sucked. They would always prefer to pound the ball and setup the play action. It's when Eli's at his strongest and it's when the offense runs the best.

CONS

1) Andre Brown exists. Andre Brown a three year NFL pro who has been on 4 different teams in those three years. And been injured his entire career up until last season (where he ended it injured). Up until last season in 2 years he had 4 carries for -1 yard. The guy isn't a threat at all in my opinion. But this is the con everyone keeps bringing up. Everyone keeps ignoring this fact as if Andre Brown is someone like Marcus Lattimore who had elite first round talent and just got hurt badly and couldn't come back. But he wasn't, he was a random pick at the tail end of the fourth round. He's just a change of pace guy to Wilson nothing more.

Honestly, my opinion on all of these reports from the mini camps and OTAs are this... Wilson has some maturity issues. The Giants are trying to be humble about his progression and not just come out and say "The kids amazing, he's picked up everything we've thrown at him. He is going to be a monster and our every down back this season".

Also latest Rotoworld update on him

"He still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant [growth]," Gilbride added. "Now until you get the pads on -– and he has to show that he, as a smaller guy, can do the things necessary that other small backs in this league have done –- you are still kind of holding your breath when you see him." Gilbride wants Wilson to become a better pass catcher and pass protector before committing to the second-year running back as an every-down player.

Here is the link to the full article:

Coach talk: Gilbride on offense

Excerpt:

Wilson growing: Gilbride likes the "significant" improvement he has seen from David Wilson from last year.

But the offensive coordinator made it clear that Wilson "is still not 100 percent."

"You see a guy like David Wilson, who started with no clue on who to block, much less how to block, to a pretty good understanding of what it is that he has to do," Gilbride said. "Now it is a matter of doing it. And it is a matter of getting better at it. He is still not 100 percent."

Gilbride likes Wilson's approach and attitude but wants to see Wilson be able to catch passes out of the backfield and "become a good pass protector."

"He still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant [growth]," Gilbride added. "Now until you get the pads on -– and he has to show that he, as a smaller guy, can do the things necessary that other small backs in this league have done –- you are still kind of holding your breath when you see him."

 

[Grahamburn]

Fantasy Week: The value of David Wilson

By Dan Graziano | ESPN.com

David Wilson, a first-round pick from the 2012 NFL draft, is going to be the New York Giants' starting running back this year. We think. Kind of. But something about this whole situation reminds me of how excited the fantasy football community was about Roy Helu in Washington this time last year. That didn't feel right, and neither does this.

How to lose credibility in a hurry.

Edit: I mean the author of the article, not Faust who is one of the reasons I come to this site.

That columnist is clearly a Bradshaw lover and still cant believe Wilson is the man. He will understand soon enough.

I don't quite get the Helu comparison, but the rest of the article is pretty much spot on. Anyone who is objectively looking at the Giants' RB situation can see that.

A true Wilson "breakout" likely won't arrive unless Brown suffers an injury, which is possible of course.

Considering they had ample opportunity to resign Bradshaw or a whole slew of other RB's (Mendenhall, Wells, Greene, etc), and are riding pretty much Wilson and the brittle Brown, I think a breakout is absolutely going to happen.

The writing on the wall that the writer misses is that he improved enough last year and the offseason to make Bradshaw expendible. The Giants did not let Bradshaw walk hoping Wilson can pass block. Decisions in the NFL aren't made like that. They don't risk the health of their two time SB winning QB with a guy they hope can figure it out sometime this season.

We all just kind of seem to be going round and round on this guy...

What's a "breakout?" 1,200 total yards and 6 TDs? Those were Bradshaw's numbers last season. He had 221 carries and 23 receptions. RB19. That's not a breakout to me, and unless Brown misses significant time that's about where I'd put Wilson.

Like I said, if Brown gets hurt, then we likely see a big breakout season.

CONS

1) Andre Brown exists. Andre Brown a three year NFL pro who has been on 4 different teams in those three years. And been injured his entire career up until last season (where he ended it injured). Up until last season in 2 years he had 4 carries for -1 yard. The guy isn't a threat at all in my opinion. But this is the con everyone keeps bringing up. Everyone keeps ignoring this fact as if Andre Brown is someone like Marcus Lattimore who had elite first round talent and just got hurt badly and couldn't come back. But he wasn't, he was a random pick at the tail end of the fourth round. He's just a change of pace guy to Wilson nothing more.

I realize you're a Wilson fan, but the two bolded comments are pretty ridiculous. TDs count in fantasy football. Andre Brown is good at scoring TDs. If he vultures 8 TDs like he did last season, which he managed in just 8 games, Wilson's value will be impacted.

Brown is going to be the RB in the game inside the 10. Ignoring that fact is silly. If you want to hang your hat on the hope he'll get hurt, that's fine, but pretending he "isn't a threat" doesn't make sense. He most certainly is a threat fantasy wise.

 

[Grahamburn]

Gilbride isn't exactly showering him with praise there...

 

[TheFanatic]

Fantasy Week: The value of David Wilson

By Dan Graziano | ESPN.com

David Wilson, a first-round pick from the 2012 NFL draft, is going to be the New York Giants' starting running back this year. We think. Kind of. But something about this whole situation reminds me of how excited the fantasy football community was about Roy Helu in Washington this time last year. That didn't feel right, and neither does this.

How to lose credibility in a hurry.

Edit: I mean the author of the article, not Faust who is one of the reasons I come to this site.

That columnist is clearly a Bradshaw lover and still cant believe Wilson is the man. He will understand soon enough.

I don't quite get the Helu comparison, but the rest of the article is pretty much spot on. Anyone who is objectively looking at the Giants' RB situation can see that.

A true Wilson "breakout" likely won't arrive unless Brown suffers an injury, which is possible of course.

Considering they had ample opportunity to resign Bradshaw or a whole slew of other RB's (Mendenhall, Wells, Greene, etc), and are riding pretty much Wilson and the brittle Brown, I think a breakout is absolutely going to happen.

The writing on the wall that the writer misses is that he improved enough last year and the offseason to make Bradshaw expendible. The Giants did not let Bradshaw walk hoping Wilson can pass block. Decisions in the NFL aren't made like that. They don't risk the health of their two time SB winning QB with a guy they hope can figure it out sometime this season.

We all just kind of seem to be going round and round on this guy...

What's a "breakout?" 1,200 total yards and 6 TDs? Those were Bradshaw's numbers last season. He had 221 carries and 23 receptions. RB19. That's not a breakout to me, and unless Brown misses significant time that's about where I'd put Wilson.

Like I said, if Brown gets hurt, then we likely see a big breakout season.

CONS

1) Andre Brown exists. Andre Brown a three year NFL pro who has been on 4 different teams in those three years. And been injured his entire career up until last season (where he ended it injured). Up until last season in 2 years he had 4 carries for -1 yard. The guy isn't a threat at all in my opinion. But this is the con everyone keeps bringing up. Everyone keeps ignoring this fact as if Andre Brown is someone like Marcus Lattimore who had elite first round talent and just got hurt badly and couldn't come back. But he wasn't, he was a random pick at the tail end of the fourth round. He's just a change of pace guy to Wilson nothing more.

I realize you're a Wilson fan, but the two bolded comments are pretty ridiculous. TDs count in fantasy football. Andre Brown is good at scoring TDs. If he vultures 8 TDs like he did last season, which he managed in just 8 games, Wilson's value will be impacted.

Brown is going to be the RB in the game inside the 10. Ignoring that fact is silly. If you want to hang your hat on the hope he'll get hurt, that's fine, but pretending he "isn't a threat" doesn't make sense. He most certainly is a threat fantasy wise.

He did a great job vulturing TD's for a while. Why exactly did that stop?

 

[Grahamburn]

He did a great job vulturing TD's for a while. Why exactly did that stop?

Do you think the 8 TDs Brown scored in the 8 games he was active positively or negatively affected the fantasy value of the other RBs on the Giants' roster?

See. We can both be condescending and ask rhetorical questions.

 

[TheFanatic]

He did a great job vulturing TD's for a while. Why exactly did that stop?

Do you think the 8 TDs Brown scored in the 8 games he was active positively or negatively affected the fantasy value of the other RBs on the Giants' roster?

See. We can both be condescending and ask rhetorical questions.

I didn't ask a rhetorical question though. I asked one based on fact. Yours is the one of supposition. Particularly that he will be a goal line back. Brown scored 8 TD's in 7 games actually. He had two against Carolina. So in 7 games, three of which he got double digit carries. So he was the bell cow and the goal line back. In 4 games, he had a handful of carries and a TD in each. Basically in about half the games, the Giants let the starter (Brown) get the goal line work. In the other 4, Brown was just a goal line back. Who's to say they don't let Wilson carry that load too?That is actually a rhetotical question. HTH

 

[Grahamburn]

He did a great job vulturing TD's for a while. Why exactly did that stop?

Do you think the 8 TDs Brown scored in the 8 games he was active positively or negatively affected the fantasy value of the other RBs on the Giants' roster?

See. We can both be condescending and ask rhetorical questions.

I didn't ask a rhetorical question though. I asked one based on fact. Yours is the one of supposition. Particularly that he will be a goal line back. Brown scored 8 TD's in 7 games actually. He had two against Carolina. So in 7 games, three of which he got double digit carries. So he was the bell cow and the goal line back. In 4 games, he had a handful of carries and a TD in each. Basically in about half the games, the Giants let the starter (Brown) get the goal line work. In the other 4, Brown was just a goal line back. Who's to say they don't let Wilson carry that load too?That is actually a rhetotical question. HTH

Yes, one of the games Brown was active for he did not score. 8 Total TDs. 8 games where he got carries. All 8 of his TDs came from inside the 2 yard line.

The reason Brown stopped scoring was because he got hurt, which is what you were implying, which is why it was rhetorical. I'm not sure why we're arguing this?

 

[TheFanatic]

He did a great job vulturing TD's for a while. Why exactly did that stop?

Do you think the 8 TDs Brown scored in the 8 games he was active positively or negatively affected the fantasy value of the other RBs on the Giants' roster?

See. We can both be condescending and ask rhetorical questions.

I didn't ask a rhetorical question though. I asked one based on fact. Yours is the one of supposition. Particularly that he will be a goal line back. Brown scored 8 TD's in 7 games actually. He had two against Carolina. So in 7 games, three of which he got double digit carries. So he was the bell cow and the goal line back. In 4 games, he had a handful of carries and a TD in each. Basically in about half the games, the Giants let the starter (Brown) get the goal line work. In the other 4, Brown was just a goal line back. Who's to say they don't let Wilson carry that load too?That is actually a rhetotical question. HTH

Yes, one of the games Brown was active for he did not score. 8 Total TDs. 8 games where he got carries. All 8 of his TDs came from inside the 2 yard line.

The reason Brown stopped scoring was because he got hurt, which is what you were implying, which is why it was rhetorical. I'm not sure why we're arguing this?

How is that a rhetorical question? I asked why he stopped being the goal line back. The answer is pretty simple and needs to be answered. It's hard to predict injuries, but the only constant of this guy's career is injuries. But hey, if Andre Brittle Brown is the reason you think Wilson will not perform, then so be it. I see Brown on the roster as a reason to be even more optimistic of Wilson's 2013 performance. Others see him as an impediment. Me, a 4 year player with something like 70 carries and lots of injury issues, means that the coaches have a TON of faith in Wilson.

 

[Khy]

He did a great job vulturing TD's for a while. Why exactly did that stop?

Do you think the 8 TDs Brown scored in the 8 games he was active positively or negatively affected the fantasy value of the other RBs on the Giants' roster?

See. We can both be condescending and ask rhetorical questions.

I didn't ask a rhetorical question though. I asked one based on fact. Yours is the one of supposition. Particularly that he will be a goal line back. Brown scored 8 TD's in 7 games actually. He had two against Carolina. So in 7 games, three of which he got double digit carries. So he was the bell cow and the goal line back. In 4 games, he had a handful of carries and a TD in each. Basically in about half the games, the Giants let the starter (Brown) get the goal line work. In the other 4, Brown was just a goal line back. Who's to say they don't let Wilson carry that load too?That is actually a rhetotical question. HTH

Yes, one of the games Brown was active for he did not score. 8 Total TDs. 8 games where he got carries. All 8 of his TDs came from inside the 2 yard line.

The reason Brown stopped scoring was because he got hurt, which is what you were implying, which is why it was rhetorical. I'm not sure why we're arguing this?

How is that a rhetorical question? I asked why he stopped being the goal line back. The answer is pretty simple and needs to be answered. It's hard to predict injuries, but the only constant of this guy's career is injuries. But hey, if Andre Brittle Brown is the reason you think Wilson will not perform, then so be it. I see Brown on the roster as a reason to be even more optimistic of Wilson's 2013 performance. Others see him as an impediment. Me, a 4 year player with something like 70 carries and lots of injury issues, means that the coaches have a TON of faith in Wilson.

This is more or less what I've been getting at in every post I've made on the man. Are people on these forums really crazy enough to believe that the Giants don't have faith in Wilson to be an every down lead back? They have a guy who has never played more than 8 games in his entire career without succumbing to season ending injury and two awful veterans behind Wilson. That's it. It legitimately blows my mind that people can look at that fact combined with the fact that they didn't work out a SINGLE one of the rather good veteran RBs that passed through FA this year. Then sit here and say "Brown is a threat, it's a time share".

Stop reading to deep into this coach speak we keep hearing. Make your own judgments, look at what has actually happened this year in the Front Office. The Giants have made none, zero, nada, zilch effort to pickup a more stable backup for Wilson. They have a guy who will be lucky to play half the season, Scott who is a special teams quality player at best, and Torain who is just... well Torain he's nothing. If they had any... ANY doubt even in the slightest amount that Wilson was NOT their guy? They would have made a move. At the very least they would have bought in Jackson, Turner, Bush etc. for a try out. Or signed Bradshaw again once he cleared waivers. If they had any doubt in Wilson's pass blocking ability on passing downs, do you really think they wouldn't be willing to throw Bradshaw (the best blocking RB in the NFL) $2mil for a year while Wilson improves?

All of these points lead me to believe this: Wilson is greatly out performing where they thought he would be. They are trying to be humble about the situation a) to reduce the hype around him coming into the season. b) Keep him from getting a big head as it's rather well known that he has some maturity issues. Maturity issues that are one of the main reasons he was kept off the field for the better past of last season (for example, crying after a fumble, or doing backflips when your HC said to stop several times).

So please, stop this nonsense and be logical about this situation. Brown poses no real threat to Wilson. Wilson is the guy.

 

[Grahamburn]

So please, stop this nonsense and be logical about this situation. Brown poses no real threat to Wilson. Wilson is the guy.

Nobody is saying Wilson isn't the guy. Nobody is saying Wilson isn't the most talented back on the roster. I don't believe I've used the term "time share."

What I am saying is Andre Brown will steal several TDs, and that's me being logical about the situation. Are you suggesting he won't?

 

[Eminence]

Didn't Andre Brown have a higher YPC and 8 Touchdowns on roughly the same amount of carries that Wilson got?

Yeah, let's just assume that this guy is dog#### and that Tom Coughlin doesn't want a 6 ft - 227lb Running Back who actually outproduced Wilson last year getting a significant amount of carries and stonewalling linebackers in pass-protection.

If I was coaching the Giants, I can tell you WHO I'd have in to pass-protect / wear the defense down.

 

[TheFanatic]

Didn't Andre Brown have a higher YPC and 8 Touchdowns on roughly the same amount of carries that Wilson got?

Yeah, let's just assume that this guy is dog#### and that Tom Coughlin doesn't want a 6 ft - 227lb Running Back who actually outproduced Wilson last year getting a significant amount of carries and stonewalling linebackers in pass-protection.

If I was coaching the Giants, I can tell you WHO I'd have in to pass-protect / wear the defense down.

What are you going to do after week 4 when they take him off on a stretcher? Is that when you would be willling to see what your first round pick can do?

 

[Eminence]

Didn't Andre Brown have a higher YPC and 8 Touchdowns on roughly the same amount of carries that Wilson got?

Yeah, let's just assume that this guy is dog#### and that Tom Coughlin doesn't want a 6 ft - 227lb Running Back who actually outproduced Wilson last year getting a significant amount of carries and stonewalling linebackers in pass-protection.

If I was coaching the Giants, I can tell you WHO I'd have in to pass-protect / wear the defense down.

What are you going to do after week 4 when they take him off on a stretcher? Is that when you would be willling to see what your first round pick can do?

I'm willing to bet that a statistically, it's more likely we see Wilson go down with an injury on excessive carries than we do Brown. Again, this is another reason as a coach I would give Brown MORE CARRIES than Wilson. One hamstring pull or bad hit and we won't see David Wilson rocketing out of the backfield like a bat out of hell.

Reason 1: Andre Brown was better statistically than Wilson last-season. If both RB can produce exactly the same (about 5.0YPC) then I am going to leave the bigger, better pass-blocking back in on 1st - 2nd down. There really is no upside in having my 1st Rounder in there, other than wearing down my Running Back who's main skill is his explosiveness out early.

Reason 2: David Wilson is a player that I want to utilize in the 3rd and 4th Quarter when the defense is battered down and ready to give up. If I am nursing a lead, have bruised the opposing defense with a battering ram like Brown excessively. It seems like the defense will be more prone to giving up a big-play to a guy like David Wilson. That's when you want a player like Wilson getting the ball, on 3rd downs when the defense is playing to stop the pass and late in the 2nd Half.

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

Reason 2: David Wilson is a player that I want to utilize in the 3rd and 4th Quarter when the defense is battered down and ready to give up. If I am nursing a lead, have bruised the opposing defense with a battering ram like Brown excessively. It seems like the defense will be more prone to giving up a big-play to a guy like David Wilson. That's when you want a player like Wilson getting the ball, on 3rd downs when the defense is playing to stop the pass and late in the 2nd Half.

Good analysis, I would venture to guess this was Coughlin's gamplan last two years with Jacobs and Bradshaw. There were several games I remember off the top of my head where Jacobs got much more carries than Bradshaw to start the game and became non-existent down the stretch. However this is contrary to your point I think, this strategy made Jacobs a viable bye-week fill and hurt Bradshaw from getting studly stats regularly. In fantasy terms that would make Brown also a viable bye-week fill, assuming he is that guy who can fill the role Jacobs did, and Wilson a potential weekly stud instead of a reliable RB1 each and every week. That, in turn, means Brown is a potential stat vulture.

 

[TheFanatic]

Didn't Andre Brown have a higher YPC and 8 Touchdowns on roughly the same amount of carries that Wilson got?

Yeah, let's just assume that this guy is dog#### and that Tom Coughlin doesn't want a 6 ft - 227lb Running Back who actually outproduced Wilson last year getting a significant amount of carries and stonewalling linebackers in pass-protection.

If I was coaching the Giants, I can tell you WHO I'd have in to pass-protect / wear the defense down.

What are you going to do after week 4 when they take him off on a stretcher? Is that when you would be willling to see what your first round pick can do?

I'm willing to bet that a statistically, it's more likely we see Wilson go down with an injury on excessive carries than we do Brown. Again, this is another reason as a coach I would give Brown MORE CARRIES than Wilson. One hamstring pull or bad hit and we won't see David Wilson rocketing out of the backfield like a bat out of hell.

Reason 1: Andre Brown was better statistically than Wilson last-season. If both RB can produce exactly the same (about 5.0YPC) then I am going to leave the bigger, better pass-blocking back in on 1st - 2nd down. There really is no upside in having my 1st Rounder in there, other than wearing down my Running Back who's main skill is his explosiveness out early.

Reason 2: David Wilson is a player that I want to utilize in the 3rd and 4th Quarter when the defense is battered down and ready to give up. If I am nursing a lead, have bruised the opposing defense with a battering ram like Brown excessively. It seems like the defense will be more prone to giving up a big-play to a guy like David Wilson. That's when you want a player like Wilson getting the ball, on 3rd downs when the defense is playing to stop the pass and late in the 2nd Half.

Now you are just talking crazy. What is Wilson's injury history? How about Brown's? You act as if 5'9" 205 lb RB's can't compare to a 220 pound guy. As if a RB has to be 220 to have any success in this league. That's completely crazy. Wilson is going to have a ton of success and Brittle Brown will be working at Home Depot in 2 years...

 

[Koya]

Single most important thing said by Gilbride is that Wilson still has a ways to go regarding pass protection, not to mention catching the ball out of the backfield - both the key responsibilities of a 3rd down back, where his speed and quicks can be deadly (be it on a draw or on a screen or pass out of the backfield).

Regardless of how much upside Wilson has, there is NO way the Giants are going to risk Manning in pass protection. The Giants have used some pretty pedestrian backs on 3rd down over the past few seasons because they could block. Ignore this at your own peril.

So, let's examine this, realistically.

1. Wilson has huge upside. If it ALL comes together, he could have a huge, breakout year. But...

2. ALL coming together would mean (a) touches in general for yards (b) third down responsibilities which can lead to some big gainers for a speedy guy and © goaline carries. If he gets all three, huge potential. Two of three, nice upside. One of three and you have a chance for a low to mid range #2 back.

Let's take each of those three components:

(a) I expect Wilson to lead the team in touches / carries... but I don't think he is going to get a huge workload. MAYBE 60/40, which is the upside imo, but which touches will those be. Which leads to the next two items

(b) If he can't block very well, he won't get nearly as much third down action. For a speed and quicks guy like Wilson, this is an opportunity for some big gains and longer TDs, especially since...

© He will almost assuredly not be the goal line back, certainly not from day one. Maybe he surprises when/if Brown gets hurt, but he might not get them in that case either, we have to see. But don't expect him to get short TDs.

So, he has a good chance to achieve (a), an ok chance to achieve (b) but right now I'd be concerned because of Gilbrides comments combined with what we saw last year and © is more of a hope than any basis in expected reality.

With that as a backdrop, how people can "expect" a HUGE year for Wilson, I just don't know. I see a good amount of yards with a good chance of a lot of yards, but he will need to get 3rd down receps (and receps in general) to get there which is a question. He's not the goal line guy... so we need to temper our expectations.

All that said, the guy has tremendous skills and breakout ability. There are plenty of players that even with all the touches in the world can only have so high a ceiling - his ceiling is BIG, but there are a lot of obstacles standing in the way.

As to letting Bradshaw go... the guy has been really, really hobbled. For people to say they let Bradshaw go only because they have faith in Wilson as a workhorse rings to me of not watching or knowing this team nor the coaching staff nor Bradshaw's limited time on the field. If anything, the biggest issue losing Bradshaw is he was a GREAT blocker... which has nothing to do with Wilson's skill set.

 

[Koya]

I should add that while Brown has obvious injury concerns, ANYone who watched him play last year HAD to be really, really impressed. He brought everything. Power, some speed, touchdowns - the guy was absolutely a workhorse.

When he is healthy its simply foolish to think Brown won't have some significant role. Simply put, he looked awesome most of the time last year, when he was playing.

 

[Khy]

Single most important thing said by Gilbride is that Wilson still has a ways to go regarding pass protection, not to mention catching the ball out of the backfield - both the key responsibilities of a 3rd down back, where his speed and quicks can be deadly (be it on a draw or on a screen or pass out of the backfield).

See now you're just putting words into the coaches mouth to prove your point.

"He still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant [growth]," Gilbride added. "Now until you get the pads on -– and he has to show that he, as a smaller guy, can do the things necessary that other small backs in this league have done –- you are still kind of holding your breath when you see him." Gilbride wants Wilson to become a better pass catcher and pass protector before committing to the second-year back as an every-down player. Wilson is still in the process of gaining his coaching staff's trust, making him a high-risk, high-reward RB2 fantasy football pick.

He actually stated the complete opposite of what you're saying he said. He said he's seen significant growth in both of those areas but until the real practice starts and he gets the pads on their holding their breaths on that optimism. Nowhere does it say that Wilson has a "ways to go in pass protection". If anything I would say this sounds like coach speak for "He's really coming together and we can wait to still how everything unfolds when we get the pads on in two weeks".

 

[The Man With No Name]

From 2009 just before Bradshaw got significant playing time after Tiki left. :

In college, Bradshaw had one huge receiving season - as a sophomore in 2005, when he caught 56 passes for 381 yards. But blitz protection could be an issue for the 5-9, 198-pounder. His size doesn't make him a natural for the duty, and he's never had to block defensive players of this caliber before.

"In Derrick, you had a guy who was 225-230 pounds who could protect the quarterback against these 250-pound linebackers," Ingram said. "When you have Brandon and Derrick in the backfield and you're able to throw the ball out of the backfield and still be able to protect those kinds of linebackers, there isn't a lot of drop-off. So you didn't have to change what you were doing. Well, we may have to change a little bit about what we're doing with Ahmad at times. But sometimes he's still going to have to stand up and get his job done."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/running-back-ahmad-bradshaw-hopes-weapon-giants-passing-game-article-1.395698#ixzz2YvbDNcWR

 

[Sabertooth]

Brown is no Zachary Stacy

 

[ShaHBucks]

Didn't Andre Brown have a higher YPC and 8 Touchdowns on roughly the same amount of carries that Wilson got?

Yeah, let's just assume that this guy is dog#### and that Tom Coughlin doesn't want a 6 ft - 227lb Running Back who actually outproduced Wilson last year getting a significant amount of carries and stonewalling linebackers in pass-protection.

If I was coaching the Giants, I can tell you WHO I'd have in to pass-protect / wear the defense down.

What are you going to do after week 4 when they take him off on a stretcher? Is that when you would be willling to see what your first round pick can do?

I'm willing to bet that a statistically, it's more likely we see Wilson go down with an injury on excessive carries than we do Brown. Again, this is another reason as a coach I would give Brown MORE CARRIES than Wilson. One hamstring pull or bad hit and we won't see David Wilson rocketing out of the backfield like a bat out of hell.

Reason 1: Andre Brown was better statistically than Wilson last-season. If both RB can produce exactly the same (about 5.0YPC) then I am going to leave the bigger, better pass-blocking back in on 1st - 2nd down. There really is no upside in having my 1st Rounder in there, other than wearing down my Running Back who's main skill is his explosiveness out early.

Reason 2: David Wilson is a player that I want to utilize in the 3rd and 4th Quarter when the defense is battered down and ready to give up. If I am nursing a lead, have bruised the opposing defense with a battering ram like Brown excessively. It seems like the defense will be more prone to giving up a big-play to a guy like David Wilson. That's when you want a player like Wilson getting the ball, on 3rd downs when the defense is playing to stop the pass and late in the 2nd Half.

Now you are just talking crazy. What is Wilson's injury history? How about Brown's? You act as if 5'9" 205 lb RB's can't compare to a 220 pound guy. As if a RB has to be 220 to have any success in this league. That's completely crazy. Wilson is going to have a ton of success and Brittle Brown will be working at Home Depot in 2 years...

Don't quote me on this, but it did matter last season. In standard scoring the top 12 RB were over 220 pounds. The only exceptions had sub 4.3 speed.

 

[Sabertooth]

Didn't Andre Brown have a higher YPC and 8 Touchdowns on roughly the same amount of carries that Wilson got?

Yeah, let's just assume that this guy is dog#### and that Tom Coughlin doesn't want a 6 ft - 227lb Running Back who actually outproduced Wilson last year getting a significant amount of carries and stonewalling linebackers in pass-protection.

If I was coaching the Giants, I can tell you WHO I'd have in to pass-protect / wear the defense down.

What are you going to do after week 4 when they take him off on a stretcher? Is that when you would be willling to see what your first round pick can do?

I'm willing to bet that a statistically, it's more likely we see Wilson go down with an injury on excessive carries than we do Brown. Again, this is another reason as a coach I would give Brown MORE CARRIES than Wilson. One hamstring pull or bad hit and we won't see David Wilson rocketing out of the backfield like a bat out of hell.

Reason 1: Andre Brown was better statistically than Wilson last-season. If both RB can produce exactly the same (about 5.0YPC) then I am going to leave the bigger, better pass-blocking back in on 1st - 2nd down. There really is no upside in having my 1st Rounder in there, other than wearing down my Running Back who's main skill is his explosiveness out early.

Reason 2: David Wilson is a player that I want to utilize in the 3rd and 4th Quarter when the defense is battered down and ready to give up. If I am nursing a lead, have bruised the opposing defense with a battering ram like Brown excessively. It seems like the defense will be more prone to giving up a big-play to a guy like David Wilson. That's when you want a player like Wilson getting the ball, on 3rd downs when the defense is playing to stop the pass and late in the 2nd Half.

Now you are just talking crazy. What is Wilson's injury history? How about Brown's? You act as if 5'9" 205 lb RB's can't compare to a 220 pound guy. As if a RB has to be 220 to have any success in this league. That's completely crazy. Wilson is going to have a ton of success and Brittle Brown will be working at Home Depot in 2 years...

Don't quote me on this, but it did matter last season. In standard scoring the top 12 RB were over 220 pounds. The only exceptions had sub 4.3 speed.

David Wilson runs a 4.03

 

[ShaHBucks]

Didn't Andre Brown have a higher YPC and 8 Touchdowns on roughly the same amount of carries that Wilson got?

Yeah, let's just assume that this guy is dog#### and that Tom Coughlin doesn't want a 6 ft - 227lb Running Back who actually outproduced Wilson last year getting a significant amount of carries and stonewalling linebackers in pass-protection.

If I was coaching the Giants, I can tell you WHO I'd have in to pass-protect / wear the defense down.

What are you going to do after week 4 when they take him off on a stretcher? Is that when you would be willling to see what your first round pick can do?

I'm willing to bet that a statistically, it's more likely we see Wilson go down with an injury on excessive carries than we do Brown. Again, this is another reason as a coach I would give Brown MORE CARRIES than Wilson. One hamstring pull or bad hit and we won't see David Wilson rocketing out of the backfield like a bat out of hell.

Reason 1: Andre Brown was better statistically than Wilson last-season. If both RB can produce exactly the same (about 5.0YPC) then I am going to leave the bigger, better pass-blocking back in on 1st - 2nd down. There really is no upside in having my 1st Rounder in there, other than wearing down my Running Back who's main skill is his explosiveness out early.

Reason 2: David Wilson is a player that I want to utilize in the 3rd and 4th Quarter when the defense is battered down and ready to give up. If I am nursing a lead, have bruised the opposing defense with a battering ram like Brown excessively. It seems like the defense will be more prone to giving up a big-play to a guy like David Wilson. That's when you want a player like Wilson getting the ball, on 3rd downs when the defense is playing to stop the pass and late in the 2nd Half.

Now you are just talking crazy. What is Wilson's injury history? How about Brown's? You act as if 5'9" 205 lb RB's can't compare to a 220 pound guy. As if a RB has to be 220 to have any success in this league. That's completely crazy. Wilson is going to have a ton of success and Brittle Brown will be working at Home Depot in 2 years...

Don't quote me on this, but it did matter last season. In standard scoring the top 12 RB were over 220 pounds. The only exceptions had sub 4.3 speed.

David Wilson runs a 4.03

Not at the combine http://mockdraftable.com/player/302/

 

[Sabertooth]

Well you're making #### up, why can't I ?

 

[Andrew74]

Some guy told me I was crazy for turning down the 2.04 for Wilson. Yes, I checked and he was serious. There is one extreme in his value.

 

[TheFanatic]

Didn't Andre Brown have a higher YPC and 8 Touchdowns on roughly the same amount of carries that Wilson got?

Yeah, let's just assume that this guy is dog#### and that Tom Coughlin doesn't want a 6 ft - 227lb Running Back who actually outproduced Wilson last year getting a significant amount of carries and stonewalling linebackers in pass-protection.

If I was coaching the Giants, I can tell you WHO I'd have in to pass-protect / wear the defense down.

What are you going to do after week 4 when they take him off on a stretcher? Is that when you would be willling to see what your first round pick can do?

I'm willing to bet that a statistically, it's more likely we see Wilson go down with an injury on excessive carries than we do Brown. Again, this is another reason as a coach I would give Brown MORE CARRIES than Wilson. One hamstring pull or bad hit and we won't see David Wilson rocketing out of the backfield like a bat out of hell.

Reason 1: Andre Brown was better statistically than Wilson last-season. If both RB can produce exactly the same (about 5.0YPC) then I am going to leave the bigger, better pass-blocking back in on 1st - 2nd down. There really is no upside in having my 1st Rounder in there, other than wearing down my Running Back who's main skill is his explosiveness out early.

Reason 2: David Wilson is a player that I want to utilize in the 3rd and 4th Quarter when the defense is battered down and ready to give up. If I am nursing a lead, have bruised the opposing defense with a battering ram like Brown excessively. It seems like the defense will be more prone to giving up a big-play to a guy like David Wilson. That's when you want a player like Wilson getting the ball, on 3rd downs when the defense is playing to stop the pass and late in the 2nd Half.

Now you are just talking crazy. What is Wilson's injury history? How about Brown's? You act as if 5'9" 205 lb RB's can't compare to a 220 pound guy. As if a RB has to be 220 to have any success in this league. That's completely crazy. Wilson is going to have a ton of success and Brittle Brown will be working at Home Depot in 2 years...

Don't quote me on this, but it did matter last season. In standard scoring the top 12 RB were over 220 pounds. The only exceptions had sub 4.3 speed.

Top 13 RB's in terms of yardage last year. This is just yardage, not FFB scoring, so it may not be accurate. 13 instead of 12 because 12 and 13 were tied:

Peterson - 217

Morris - 218

Lynch - 215

Charles - 199

Martin - 215

Foster - 230

Ridley - 220

Spiller - 200

CJ2K - 191

Gore - 217

Rice - 212

Forte - 218

BJGE - 220

Only three guys on that list are 220 or above. Only 1 guy is actually OVER 220. There a lot of guys close, but 220 is not some magical number.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Didn't Andre Brown have a higher YPC and 8 Touchdowns on roughly the same amount of carries that Wilson got?

Yeah, let's just assume that this guy is dog#### and that Tom Coughlin doesn't want a 6 ft - 227lb Running Back who actually outproduced Wilson last year getting a significant amount of carries and stonewalling linebackers in pass-protection.

If I was coaching the Giants, I can tell you WHO I'd have in to pass-protect / wear the defense down.

What are you going to do after week 4 when they take him off on a stretcher? Is that when you would be willling to see what your first round pick can do?

I'm willing to bet that a statistically, it's more likely we see Wilson go down with an injury on excessive carries than we do Brown. Again, this is another reason as a coach I would give Brown MORE CARRIES than Wilson. One hamstring pull or bad hit and we won't see David Wilson rocketing out of the backfield like a bat out of hell.Reason 1: Andre Brown was better statistically than Wilson last-season. If both RB can produce exactly the same (about 5.0YPC) then I am going to leave the bigger, better pass-blocking back in on 1st - 2nd down. There really is no upside in having my 1st Rounder in there, other than wearing down my Running Back who's main skill is his explosiveness out early.

Reason 2: David Wilson is a player that I want to utilize in the 3rd and 4th Quarter when the defense is battered down and ready to give up. If I am nursing a lead, have bruised the opposing defense with a battering ram like Brown excessively. It seems like the defense will be more prone to giving up a big-play to a guy like David Wilson. That's when you want a player like Wilson getting the ball, on 3rd downs when the defense is playing to stop the pass and late in the 2nd Half.

Now you are just talking crazy. What is Wilson's injury history? How about Brown's? You act as if 5'9" 205 lb RB's can't compare to a 220 pound guy. As if a RB has to be 220 to have any success in this league. That's completely crazy. Wilson is going to have a ton of success and Brittle Brown will be working at Home Depot in 2 years...

Don't quote me on this, but it did matter last season. In standard scoring the top 12 RB were over 220 pounds. The only exceptions had sub 4.3 speed.

Top 13 RB's in terms of yardage last year. This is just yardage, not FFB scoring, so it may not be accurate. 13 instead of 12 because 12 and 13 were tied:

Peterson - 217

Morris - 218

Lynch - 215

Charles - 199

Martin - 215

Foster - 230

Ridley - 220

Spiller - 200

CJ2K - 191

Gore - 217

Rice - 212

Forte - 218

BJGE - 220

Only three guys on that list are 220 or above. Only 1 guy is actually OVER 220. There a lot of guys close, but 220 is not some magical number.

I might have guessed/rounded when I just glanced at the list. They are all big guys and size does matter.

 

[Koya]

Single most important thing said by Gilbride is that Wilson still has a ways to go regarding pass protection, not to mention catching the ball out of the backfield - both the key responsibilities of a 3rd down back, where his speed and quicks can be deadly (be it on a draw or on a screen or pass out of the backfield).

See now you're just putting words into the coaches mouth to prove your point.

"He still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant [growth]," Gilbride added. "Now until you get the pads on -– and he has to show that he, as a smaller guy, can do the things necessary that other small backs in this league have done –- you are still kind of holding your breath when you see him." Gilbride wants Wilson to become a better pass catcher and pass protector before committing to the second-year back as an every-down player. Wilson is still in the process of gaining his coaching staff's trust, making him a high-risk, high-reward RB2 fantasy football pick.

He actually stated the complete opposite of what you're saying he said. He said he's seen significant growth in both of those areas but until the real practice starts and he gets the pads on their holding their breaths on that optimism. Nowhere does it say that Wilson has a "ways to go in pass protection". If anything I would say this sounds like coach speak for "He's really coming together and we can wait to still how everything unfolds when we get the pads on in two weeks".

I watch every Giants game. I saw his value and his issues last year. When Gilbride says "he still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant growth" you need to be a bit overly optimistic to assume that those issues are suddenly gone - for a team that (like many) is predicated upon the QB.

Just because I don't use a direct quote (and I did just now) please don't twist what I'm trying to say. Wilson has not at all proven he can be an ok pass blocker, not to say a good one - and the Giants are going to want great.

 

[gianmarco]

Didn't Andre Brown have a higher YPC and 8 Touchdowns on roughly the same amount of carries that Wilson got?

Yeah, let's just assume that this guy is dog#### and that Tom Coughlin doesn't want a 6 ft - 227lb Running Back who actually outproduced Wilson last year getting a significant amount of carries and stonewalling linebackers in pass-protection.

If I was coaching the Giants, I can tell you WHO I'd have in to pass-protect / wear the defense down.

What are you going to do after week 4 when they take him off on a stretcher? Is that when you would be willling to see what your first round pick can do?

I'm willing to bet that a statistically, it's more likely we see Wilson go down with an injury on excessive carries than we do Brown. Again, this is another reason as a coach I would give Brown MORE CARRIES than Wilson. One hamstring pull or bad hit and we won't see David Wilson rocketing out of the backfield like a bat out of hell.Reason 1: Andre Brown was better statistically than Wilson last-season. If both RB can produce exactly the same (about 5.0YPC) then I am going to leave the bigger, better pass-blocking back in on 1st - 2nd down. There really is no upside in having my 1st Rounder in there, other than wearing down my Running Back who's main skill is his explosiveness out early.

Reason 2: David Wilson is a player that I want to utilize in the 3rd and 4th Quarter when the defense is battered down and ready to give up. If I am nursing a lead, have bruised the opposing defense with a battering ram like Brown excessively. It seems like the defense will be more prone to giving up a big-play to a guy like David Wilson. That's when you want a player like Wilson getting the ball, on 3rd downs when the defense is playing to stop the pass and late in the 2nd Half.

Now you are just talking crazy. What is Wilson's injury history? How about Brown's? You act as if 5'9" 205 lb RB's can't compare to a 220 pound guy. As if a RB has to be 220 to have any success in this league. That's completely crazy. Wilson is going to have a ton of success and Brittle Brown will be working at Home Depot in 2 years...

Don't quote me on this, but it did matter last season. In standard scoring the top 12 RB were over 220 pounds. The only exceptions had sub 4.3 speed.

Top 13 RB's in terms of yardage last year. This is just yardage, not FFB scoring, so it may not be accurate. 13 instead of 12 because 12 and 13 were tied:

Peterson - 217

Morris - 218

Lynch - 215

Charles - 199

Martin - 215

Foster - 230

Ridley - 220

Spiller - 200

CJ2K - 191

Gore - 217

Rice - 212

Forte - 218

BJGE - 220

Only three guys on that list are 220 or above. Only 1 guy is actually OVER 220. There a lot of guys close, but 220 is not some magical number.

I might have guessed/rounded when I just glanced at the list. They are all big guys and size does matter.

Exactly. Except, they're not.

 

[TheFanatic]

Didn't Andre Brown have a higher YPC and 8 Touchdowns on roughly the same amount of carries that Wilson got?

Yeah, let's just assume that this guy is dog#### and that Tom Coughlin doesn't want a 6 ft - 227lb Running Back who actually outproduced Wilson last year getting a significant amount of carries and stonewalling linebackers in pass-protection.

If I was coaching the Giants, I can tell you WHO I'd have in to pass-protect / wear the defense down.

What are you going to do after week 4 when they take him off on a stretcher? Is that when you would be willling to see what your first round pick can do?

I'm willing to bet that a statistically, it's more likely we see Wilson go down with an injury on excessive carries than we do Brown. Again, this is another reason as a coach I would give Brown MORE CARRIES than Wilson. One hamstring pull or bad hit and we won't see David Wilson rocketing out of the backfield like a bat out of hell.Reason 1: Andre Brown was better statistically than Wilson last-season. If both RB can produce exactly the same (about 5.0YPC) then I am going to leave the bigger, better pass-blocking back in on 1st - 2nd down. There really is no upside in having my 1st Rounder in there, other than wearing down my Running Back who's main skill is his explosiveness out early.

Reason 2: David Wilson is a player that I want to utilize in the 3rd and 4th Quarter when the defense is battered down and ready to give up. If I am nursing a lead, have bruised the opposing defense with a battering ram like Brown excessively. It seems like the defense will be more prone to giving up a big-play to a guy like David Wilson. That's when you want a player like Wilson getting the ball, on 3rd downs when the defense is playing to stop the pass and late in the 2nd Half.

Now you are just talking crazy. What is Wilson's injury history? How about Brown's? You act as if 5'9" 205 lb RB's can't compare to a 220 pound guy. As if a RB has to be 220 to have any success in this league. That's completely crazy. Wilson is going to have a ton of success and Brittle Brown will be working at Home Depot in 2 years...

Don't quote me on this, but it did matter last season. In standard scoring the top 12 RB were over 220 pounds. The only exceptions had sub 4.3 speed.

Top 13 RB's in terms of yardage last year. This is just yardage, not FFB scoring, so it may not be accurate. 13 instead of 12 because 12 and 13 were tied:

Peterson - 217

Morris - 218

Lynch - 215

Charles - 199

Martin - 215

Foster - 230

Ridley - 220

Spiller - 200

CJ2K - 191

Gore - 217

Rice - 212

Forte - 218

BJGE - 220

Only three guys on that list are 220 or above. Only 1 guy is actually OVER 220. There a lot of guys close, but 220 is not some magical number.

I might have guessed/rounded when I just glanced at the list. They are all big guys and size does matter.

Exactly. Except, they're not.

I'm astounded at how hard this concept is to understand.

 

[Dippa]

I watch every Giants game. I saw his value and his issues last year. When Gilbride says "he still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant growth" you need to be a bit overly optimistic to assume that those issues are suddenly gone - for a team that (like many) is predicated upon the QB.Just because I don't use a direct quote (and I did just now) please don't twist what I'm trying to say. Wilson has not at all proven he can be an ok pass blocker, not to say a good one - and the Giants are going to want great.

I could buy this argument if Bradshaw were still around, as we know Bradshaw is a great pass protector. However, the fact is that someone is going to have to pass block, whether they're great or not. This almost seems to imply that Brown has shown he can be a great pass blocker, and I'm curious if and why you think this is the case.

I found an article about Brown in week 4 last year (when Bradshaw returned) where Gilbride said that the Giants don't trust Brown in pass protection, which limited him to just 9 snaps in week 4. Brown was then out with a concussion weeks 5 and 6. When he returned, he saw 16, 9, and 15 snaps in his next 3 games. It wasn't until week 10 when Bradshaw went down that he again saw significant (44 out of 73) snaps. Week 12 was his last game where he broke his fibula in the 4th quarter, so he played most of the game, and saw 25/66 snaps in Bradshaw's return.

Granted, I can understand why the Giants had Bradshaw in on a lot of snaps when healthy, but his coach's comments and the limited snaps behind Bradshaw don't exactly paint a pretty picture of Brown's pass protection. I can agree that pass protection will dictate playing time, but that seems to directed solely at Wilson, while no one really discusses Brown in that area.

 

[JohnnyU]

I watch every Giants game. I saw his value and his issues last year. When Gilbride says "he still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant growth" you need to be a bit overly optimistic to assume that those issues are suddenly gone - for a team that (like many) is predicated upon the QB.Just because I don't use a direct quote (and I did just now) please don't twist what I'm trying to say. Wilson has not at all proven he can be an ok pass blocker, not to say a good one - and the Giants are going to want great.

I could buy this argument if Bradshaw were still around, as we know Bradshaw is a great pass protector. However, the fact is that someone is going to have to pass block, whether they're great or not. This almost seems to imply that Brown has shown he can be a great pass blocker, and I'm curious if and why you think this is the case.

I found an article about Brown in week 4 last year (when Bradshaw returned) where Gilbride said that the Giants don't trust Brown in pass protection, which limited him to just 9 snaps in week 4.

...

...

...

Granted, I can understand why the Giants had Bradshaw in on a lot of snaps when healthy, but his coach's comments and the limited snaps behind Bradshaw don't exactly paint a pretty picture of Brown's pass protection. I can agree that pass protection will dictate playing time, but that seems to directed solely at Wilson, while no one really discusses Brown in that area.

Shhhh, Wilson haters don't want to hear that kind of crap. Didn't you know we're talking about ONLY Wilson's inability to block?

 

[Cookiemonster]

Stud RBs come in all sizes. Most of them come between 5'8" and 5'11" and weigh 205-220. Most of them put on 5 lbs or so after college just filling out if they are < 24 years old. David is 22 (just turned 22 on June 15th) and is listed at 205 and 5'9". Ray Rice is listed at 212 (and I think that's conservative) but was only 200 coming out of school.

 

[Koya]

I watch every Giants game. I saw his value and his issues last year. When Gilbride says "he still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant growth" you need to be a bit overly optimistic to assume that those issues are suddenly gone - for a team that (like many) is predicated upon the QB.Just because I don't use a direct quote (and I did just now) please don't twist what I'm trying to say. Wilson has not at all proven he can be an ok pass blocker, not to say a good one - and the Giants are going to want great.

I could buy this argument if Bradshaw were still around, as we know Bradshaw is a great pass protector. However, the fact is that someone is going to have to pass block, whether they're great or not. This almost seems to imply that Brown has shown he can be a great pass blocker, and I'm curious if and why you think this is the case.

I found an article about Brown in week 4 last year (when Bradshaw returned) where Gilbride said that the Giants don't trust Brown in pass protection, which limited him to just 9 snaps in week 4. Brown was then out with a concussion weeks 5 and 6. When he returned, he saw 16, 9, and 15 snaps in his next 3 games. It wasn't until week 10 when Bradshaw went down that he again saw significant (44 out of 73) snaps. Week 12 was his last game where he broke his fibula in the 4th quarter, so he played most of the game, and saw 25/66 snaps in Bradshaw's return.

Granted, I can understand why the Giants had Bradshaw in on a lot of snaps when healthy, but his coach's comments and the limited snaps behind Bradshaw don't exactly paint a pretty picture of Brown's pass protection. I can agree that pass protection will dictate playing time, but that seems to directed solely at Wilson, while no one really discusses Brown in that area.

I honestly don't recall much about Brown being in pass protection, just how good he looked running the ball. To your point, I don't believe it was a strength of Brown and at the end of the day, it could very well neither Brown NOR Wilson who gets that role. What I do know is how much the Giants value pass protection from their 3rd down back, and that might be someone they pick up if they can't find someone on the roster to provide the need.

To Wilson, it doesnt matter if Brown or someone else takes those snaps (I think someone else) - but I haven't seen enough to convince me that Wilson will get a majority, unless they are looking for playmaking, not blocking, on a particular call.

 

[Koya]

I watch every Giants game. I saw his value and his issues last year. When Gilbride says "he still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant growth" you need to be a bit overly optimistic to assume that those issues are suddenly gone - for a team that (like many) is predicated upon the QB.Just because I don't use a direct quote (and I did just now) please don't twist what I'm trying to say. Wilson has not at all proven he can be an ok pass blocker, not to say a good one - and the Giants are going to want great.

I could buy this argument if Bradshaw were still around, as we know Bradshaw is a great pass protector. However, the fact is that someone is going to have to pass block, whether they're great or not. This almost seems to imply that Brown has shown he can be a great pass blocker, and I'm curious if and why you think this is the case.

I found an article about Brown in week 4 last year (when Bradshaw returned) where Gilbride said that the Giants don't trust Brown in pass protection, which limited him to just 9 snaps in week 4.

...

...

...

Granted, I can understand why the Giants had Bradshaw in on a lot of snaps when healthy, but his coach's comments and the limited snaps behind Bradshaw don't exactly paint a pretty picture of Brown's pass protection. I can agree that pass protection will dictate playing time, but that seems to directed solely at Wilson, while no one really discusses Brown in that area.

Shhhh, Wilson haters don't want to hear that kind of crap. Didn't you know we're talking about ONLY Wilson's inability to block?

Yes, I am a Giants fan who was ecstatic about the pick and LOVES the upside, but I am a hater.

If following the team pretty closely, watching all games and looking at history and what the staff looks for objectively makes me a hater, so be it.

Just because someone (correctly) points out an area of the game where someone needs to improve, that doesn't make a hater. So yes, it's the 'haters' that are not being objective, not the 'fanboys'

 

[gianmarco]

I watch every Giants game. I saw his value and his issues last year. When Gilbride says "he still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant growth" you need to be a bit overly optimistic to assume that those issues are suddenly gone - for a team that (like many) is predicated upon the QB.Just because I don't use a direct quote (and I did just now) please don't twist what I'm trying to say. Wilson has not at all proven he can be an ok pass blocker, not to say a good one - and the Giants are going to want great.

I could buy this argument if Bradshaw were still around, as we know Bradshaw is a great pass protector. However, the fact is that someone is going to have to pass block, whether they're great or not. This almost seems to imply that Brown has shown he can be a great pass blocker, and I'm curious if and why you think this is the case.

I found an article about Brown in week 4 last year (when Bradshaw returned) where Gilbride said that the Giants don't trust Brown in pass protection, which limited him to just 9 snaps in week 4. Brown was then out with a concussion weeks 5 and 6. When he returned, he saw 16, 9, and 15 snaps in his next 3 games. It wasn't until week 10 when Bradshaw went down that he again saw significant (44 out of 73) snaps. Week 12 was his last game where he broke his fibula in the 4th quarter, so he played most of the game, and saw 25/66 snaps in Bradshaw's return.

Granted, I can understand why the Giants had Bradshaw in on a lot of snaps when healthy, but his coach's comments and the limited snaps behind Bradshaw don't exactly paint a pretty picture of Brown's pass protection. I can agree that pass protection will dictate playing time, but that seems to directed solely at Wilson, while no one really discusses Brown in that area.

I honestly don't recall much about Brown being in pass protection, just how good he looked running the ball. To your point, I don't believe it was a strength of Brown and at the end of the day, it could very well neither Brown NOR Wilson who gets that role. What I do know is how much the Giants value pass protection from their 3rd down back, and that might be someone they pick up if they can't find someone on the roster to provide the need.

To Wilson, it doesnt matter if Brown or someone else takes those snaps (I think someone else) - but I haven't seen enough to convince me that Wilson will get a majority, unless they are looking for playmaking, not blocking, on a particular call.

From October 2012

The Giants planned that running backs Ahmad Bradshaw and Andre Brown would split the snaps, and carries, at about 50/50 last week against the Philadelphia Eagles.

But Bradshaw played 58 of the 68 offensive snaps. Brown was in on just nine and had five carries for 14 yards.

On Thursday, offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride gave the simple answer: The Giants don’t trust Brown enough in pass protection, and they had been forced to throw more than they had planned.

 

[Donsmith753]

I'm on board now that I own him.

 

[TheFanatic]

I watch every Giants game. I saw his value and his issues last year. When Gilbride says "he still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant growth" you need to be a bit overly optimistic to assume that those issues are suddenly gone - for a team that (like many) is predicated upon the QB.Just because I don't use a direct quote (and I did just now) please don't twist what I'm trying to say. Wilson has not at all proven he can be an ok pass blocker, not to say a good one - and the Giants are going to want great.

I could buy this argument if Bradshaw were still around, as we know Bradshaw is a great pass protector. However, the fact is that someone is going to have to pass block, whether they're great or not. This almost seems to imply that Brown has shown he can be a great pass blocker, and I'm curious if and why you think this is the case.

I found an article about Brown in week 4 last year (when Bradshaw returned) where Gilbride said that the Giants don't trust Brown in pass protection, which limited him to just 9 snaps in week 4. Brown was then out with a concussion weeks 5 and 6. When he returned, he saw 16, 9, and 15 snaps in his next 3 games. It wasn't until week 10 when Bradshaw went down that he again saw significant (44 out of 73) snaps. Week 12 was his last game where he broke his fibula in the 4th quarter, so he played most of the game, and saw 25/66 snaps in Bradshaw's return.

Granted, I can understand why the Giants had Bradshaw in on a lot of snaps when healthy, but his coach's comments and the limited snaps behind Bradshaw don't exactly paint a pretty picture of Brown's pass protection. I can agree that pass protection will dictate playing time, but that seems to directed solely at Wilson, while no one really discusses Brown in that area.

I honestly don't recall much about Brown being in pass protection, just how good he looked running the ball. To your point, I don't believe it was a strength of Brown and at the end of the day, it could very well neither Brown NOR Wilson who gets that role. What I do know is how much the Giants value pass protection from their 3rd down back, and that might be someone they pick up if they can't find someone on the roster to provide the need.

To Wilson, it doesnt matter if Brown or someone else takes those snaps (I think someone else) - but I haven't seen enough to convince me that Wilson will get a majority, unless they are looking for playmaking, not blocking, on a particular call.

From October 2012

The Giants planned that running backs Ahmad Bradshaw and Andre Brown would split the snaps, and carries, at about 50/50 last week against the Philadelphia Eagles.

But Bradshaw played 58 of the 68 offensive snaps. Brown was in on just nine and had five carries for 14 yards.

On Thursday, offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride gave the simple answer: The Giants don’t trust Brown enough in pass protection, and they had been forced to throw more than they had planned.

But, but, but, goal line carries. But, fumbling problems. But, but, too small. But, but, pass too much, but, but...

 

[ShaHBucks]

I can't understand how you can be anymore than cautiously optimistic about Wilson when it's not a 100% guarantee that he will even lead the team in carries, let alone be the next stud RB. I care no more about Wilson than I do Lamar Miller- which means "hopeful," but I'm putting all of my chips down. If he was so great he wouldn't have flopped so hard to start the season. He had a 40-yard TD late in a Browns blowout. Outside of that run he had 27 carries for 71 yards through week 10. 6 carries for 8 yards his first 3 weeks. Weeks 8-12 13 carries for 25 yards. He destroyed NO with aother late run in a blowout but thats not saying much. The week after with the playoff on the line vs ATL Coughlin had him split carries with another journeymen, Kregg Lumpkin... Now when the game is on the line you expect Caughlin to sit a healthy Andre Brown for David Wilson? I will believe that when I see it. Wilson was more awful than not last season.

Wilson will be fine in the NFL. Plenty of solid RB's would be fine being the main carry RB for the NYG. I'm not hopping on the top-10 bandwagon anytime soon. Andre Brown is a better bargin at current ADP.

 

[meyerj31]

I can't understand how you can be anymore than cautiously optimistic about Wilson when it's not a 100% guarantee that he will even lead the team in carries, let alone be the next stud RB. I care no more about Wilson than I do Lamar Miller- which means "hopeful," but I'm putting all of my chips down. If he was so great he wouldn't have flopped so hard to start the season. He had a 40-yard TD late in a Browns blowout. Outside of that run he had 27 carries for 71 yards through week 10. 6 carries for 8 yards his first 3 weeks. Weeks 8-12 13 carries for 25 yards. He destroyed NO with aother late run in a blowout but thats not saying much. The week after with the playoff on the line vs ATL Coughlin had him split carries with another journeymen, Kregg Lumpkin... Now when the game is on the line you expect Caughlin to sit a healthy Andre Brown for David Wilson? I will believe that when I see it. Wilson was more awful than not last season.

Wilson will be fine in the NFL. Plenty of solid RB's would be fine being the main carry RB for the NYG. I'm not hopping on the top-10 bandwagon anytime soon. Andre Brown is a better bargin at current ADP.

There is no place for cautious optimism on these boards ... either he's the next Peterson or he's a dud. GET OUT!!!!

 

[The Man With No Name]

As I posted above, Bradshaw hadn't pass blocked, wasn't considered good at it and the Giants were concerned before the 5'9" 198 lb. Bradshaw started getting significant playing time. He, according to some of you is now a "great" pass blocker, So why can't Wilson learn it and do it?

It could take until 2014 before he is a "stud", but Bradshaw wasn't right away either. <Just for comparison. Similar circumstances and same team.

There are alot of articles from 2009 with regards to Bradshaw's lack of pass blocking history and skill.

 

[Touchdown There]

I can't understand how you can be anymore than cautiously optimistic about Wilson when it's not a 100% guarantee that he will even lead the team in carries, let alone be the next stud RB. I care no more about Wilson than I do Lamar Miller- which means "hopeful," but I'm putting all of my chips down. If he was so great he wouldn't have flopped so hard to start the season. He had a 40-yard TD late in a Browns blowout. Outside of that run he had 27 carries for 71 yards through week 10. 6 carries for 8 yards his first 3 weeks. Weeks 8-12 13 carries for 25 yards. He destroyed NO with aother late run in a blowout but thats not saying much. The week after with the playoff on the line vs ATL Coughlin had him split carries with another journeymen, Kregg Lumpkin... Now when the game is on the line you expect Caughlin to sit a healthy Andre Brown for David Wilson? I will believe that when I see it. Wilson was more awful than not last season.

Wilson will be fine in the NFL. Plenty of solid RB's would be fine being the main carry RB for the NYG. I'm not hopping on the top-10 bandwagon anytime soon. Andre Brown is a better bargin at current ADP.

Buying low before a breakout is the key to dynasty fantasy football. Your post is a manual on how to suck.

 

[Koya]

I watch every Giants game. I saw his value and his issues last year. When Gilbride says "he still makes mistakes but there has certainly been some significant growth" you need to be a bit overly optimistic to assume that those issues are suddenly gone - for a team that (like many) is predicated upon the QB.Just because I don't use a direct quote (and I did just now) please don't twist what I'm trying to say. Wilson has not at all proven he can be an ok pass blocker, not to say a good one - and the Giants are going to want great.

I could buy this argument if Bradshaw were still around, as we know Bradshaw is a great pass protector. However, the fact is that someone is going to have to pass block, whether they're great or not. This almost seems to imply that Brown has shown he can be a great pass blocker, and I'm curious if and why you think this is the case.

I found an article about Brown in week 4 last year (when Bradshaw returned) where Gilbride said that the Giants don't trust Brown in pass protection, which limited him to just 9 snaps in week 4. Brown was then out with a concussion weeks 5 and 6. When he returned, he saw 16, 9, and 15 snaps in his next 3 games. It wasn't until week 10 when Bradshaw went down that he again saw significant (44 out of 73) snaps. Week 12 was his last game where he broke his fibula in the 4th quarter, so he played most of the game, and saw 25/66 snaps in Bradshaw's return.

Granted, I can understand why the Giants had Bradshaw in on a lot of snaps when healthy, but his coach's comments and the limited snaps behind Bradshaw don't exactly paint a pretty picture of Brown's pass protection. I can agree that pass protection will dictate playing time, but that seems to directed solely at Wilson, while no one really discusses Brown in that area.

I honestly don't recall much about Brown being in pass protection, just how good he looked running the ball. To your point, I don't believe it was a strength of Brown and at the end of the day, it could very well neither Brown NOR Wilson who gets that role. What I do know is how much the Giants value pass protection from their 3rd down back, and that might be someone they pick up if they can't find someone on the roster to provide the need.

To Wilson, it doesnt matter if Brown or someone else takes those snaps (I think someone else) - but I haven't seen enough to convince me that Wilson will get a majority, unless they are looking for playmaking, not blocking, on a particular call.

From October 2012

The Giants planned that running backs Ahmad Bradshaw and Andre Brown would split the snaps, and carries, at about 50/50 last week against the Philadelphia Eagles.

But Bradshaw played 58 of the 68 offensive snaps. Brown was in on just nine and had five carries for 14 yards.

On Thursday, offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride gave the simple answer: The Giants don’t trust Brown enough in pass protection, and they had been forced to throw more than they had planned.

I remember that game - and it's a perfect case in point. On one hand, Brown sucks so Wilson has a chance to get the job IF he can learn to block.

However, I've yet to see him to so. Might it happen? Sure - and I hope so. But I'm not expecting it, and if I don't believe there's a strong likelihood, I'm not risking my fantasy season on wishful thinking upside.

It seems that the Giants are going to find whomever fits each role and use that guy accordingly. They've brought through guys like D. Ward, DJ Ware and those players had solid roles, which eat into production for a guy who is not likely to get many goaline looks as well. Not sure how you can ignore that, regardless how high the upside is.

Now, that's not to say Wilson doesn't have value, nor big upside especially in dynasty. But tempered expectations with an understanding of what is likely vs. what we wish to happen would seem to be in order, here.

 

[RushHour]

I can't believe so many people are high on Andre Brown this offseason. Conventional wisdom gone crazy. He might be ok, but people are talking about him being a great value where he's being drafted. I don't get it - he's a backup RB, nothing more. This is not going to be a committee.

 

[Koya]

As I posted above, Bradshaw hadn't pass blocked, wasn't considered good at it and the Giants were concerned before the 5'9" 198 lb. Bradshaw started getting significant playing time. He, according to some of you is now a "great" pass blocker, So why can't Wilson learn it and do it?

He absolutely COULD learn it. He MIGHT learn it. Maybe its this year even. Maybe not.

If you draft him expecting the upside and ignoring some real questions regarding roles (important ones though, fantasy scoring wise) then be forewarned.

But, as noted above, long term if you can get him at a good price, he has some very high upside, especially in a dynasty. If he overcomes just the blocking/receiving role then he is one of the better RB choices looking forward. If somehow get gets even some redzone / goaline work, more upside than most for sure.

But in a redraft, the questions, and the timing of the when part of if/when we will learn to block, become more prominent.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I can't believe so many people are high on Andre Brown this offseason. Conventional wisdom gone crazy. He might be ok, but people are talking about him being a great value where he's being drafted. I don't get it - he's a backup RB, nothing more. This is not going to be a committee.

Are you privy to some inside info that no one else has available?

 

[Mimo]

I can't understand how you can be anymore than cautiously optimistic about Wilson when it's not a 100% guarantee that he will even lead the team in carries, let alone be the next stud RB. I care no more about Wilson than I do Lamar Miller- which means "hopeful," but I'm putting all of my chips down. If he was so great he wouldn't have flopped so hard to start the season. He had a 40-yard TD late in a Browns blowout. Outside of that run he had 27 carries for 71 yards through week 10. 6 carries for 8 yards his first 3 weeks. Weeks 8-12 13 carries for 25 yards. He destroyed NO with aother late run in a blowout but thats not saying much. The week after with the playoff on the line vs ATL Coughlin had him split carries with another journeymen, Kregg Lumpkin... Now when the game is on the line you expect Caughlin to sit a healthy Andre Brown for David Wilson? I will believe that when I see it. Wilson was more awful than not last season.

Wilson will be fine in the NFL. Plenty of solid RB's would be fine being the main carry RB for the NYG. I'm not hopping on the top-10 bandwagon anytime soon. Andre Brown is a better bargin at current ADP.

Buying low before a breakout is the key to dynasty fantasy football. Your post is a manual on how to suck.

Buy low period sailed on Wilson mid season last year.

 

[RushHour]

I can't believe so many people are high on Andre Brown this offseason. Conventional wisdom gone crazy. He might be ok, but people are talking about him being a great value where he's being drafted. I don't get it - he's a backup RB, nothing more. This is not going to be a committee.

Are you privy to some inside info that no one else has available?

No, just my opinion. No doubt Brown was pretty impressive when he got the opportunity last year, but I just think this committe talk is overblown. Brown will get some carries, but some people are just assuming he will get all the carries at the goal line for some reason, which I doubt happens, and the consensus seems to be that it will be around a 60-40 split in workload, if not more even. I just find that hard to believe unless Wilson completely falls flat on his face, which is a scenario that I suppose many people see playing out. Basically, I think people are projecting a worst case scenario for Wilson and a best case for Brown, which is a bit unfair to Wilson. He's talented, the Giants want him to succeed, and I think there's an excellent chance that he will this year.

It's not that I dislike Brown or don't think he can be a decent starter when called upon, but I just think this has become one of those group think situations, where a certain opinion picks up momentum and suddenly everyone is parroting it because it sounds "sharky". It's kind of like the Zac Stacy thing - in the space of a couple of weeks everyone was listing him as one of their favourite sleepers, even though I doubt the majority of those people had actually seen him play in college. It has become trendy to pick Brown as a RB3/flex sleeper, who could do even more than that. Never mind the fact that he has never been able to stay on the field. Many people have expressed the view that he's a better value at his ADP than Wilson as well - I just think that is ludicrous. Wilson has some risk (though I think less than some people want to believe), but if he hits, he will be a tremendous value. I just don't see Brown as having the upside of anywhere near where he's being drafted, unless of course Wilson suffered a major injury.

I don't have a dog in this race, but I wouldn't be surprised of Brown was waiver material a few weeks into the season. I guess all will be revealed in time and I'm happy to be proven wrong. I just wouldn't want to miss out on drafting a potential RB1 type player because of the threat of Andre Brown.

 

[Koya]

I can't believe so many people are high on Andre Brown this offseason. Conventional wisdom gone crazy. He might be ok, but people are talking about him being a great value where he's being drafted. I don't get it - he's a backup RB, nothing more. This is not going to be a committee.

Are you privy to some inside info that no one else has available?

No, just my opinion. No doubt Brown was pretty impressive when he got the opportunity last year, but I just think this committe talk is overblown. Brown will get some carries, but some people are just assuming he will get all the carries at the goal line for some reason, which I doubt happens, and the consensus seems to be that it will be around a 60-40 split in workload, if not more even. I just find that hard to believe unless Wilson completely falls flat on his face, which is a scenario that I suppose many people see playing out. Basically, I think people are projecting a worst case scenario for Wilson and a best case for Brown, which is a bit unfair to Wilson. He's talented, the Giants want him to succeed, and I think there's an excellent chance that he will this year.

It's not that I dislike Brown or don't think he can be a decent starter when called upon, but I just think this has become one of those group think situations, where a certain opinion picks up momentum and suddenly everyone is parroting it because it sounds "sharky". It's kind of like the Zac Stacy thing - in the space of a couple of weeks everyone was listing him as one of their favourite sleepers, even though I doubt the majority of those people had actually seen him play in college. It has become trendy to pick Brown as a RB3/flex sleeper, who could do even more than that. Never mind the fact that he has never been able to stay on the field. Many people have expressed the view that he's a better value at his ADP than Wilson as well - I just think that is ludicrous. Wilson has some risk (though I think less than some people want to believe), but if he hits, he will be a tremendous value. I just don't see Brown as having the upside of anywhere near where he's being drafted, unless of course Wilson suffered a major injury.

I don't have a dog in this race, but I wouldn't be surprised of Brown was waiver material a few weeks into the season. I guess all will be revealed in time and I'm happy to be proven wrong. I just wouldn't want to miss out on drafting a potential RB1 type player because of the threat of Andre Brown.

Interesting perspective, but I just don't see where you are getting the info from which you base these conclusions.

My biggest horse in this race? Giants victories. And to that end, as I've stated before, there is nothing that points toward Wilson getting goal lines, and as of now, big question marks regarding how much of a role he will have on 3rd downs. Without one of those, he can have a very good season. Without both? Could be an ok #2 with some really big games and some 80-100 total yard relative duds, which is the most likely outcome in my opinion.

Did you watch many of the games last year? Don't know how people can discount Brown outside of the (large) injury issue. The guy looked fantastic. Power, speed, surprising ability to get to daylight. If I had to compare, he looked like a poor man's Arian Foster to a degree and was very, very productive for a stretch. To just shrug that off and suggest he will be waiver wire fodder confounds me. Injury concern, sure - but he has shown as much or even more during his time on the field than Wilson, although I'm not suggesting his upside is greater than Wilson's overall.

But, for the umpteenth time:

1. Wilson is not likely to get goal lines. You'd have to assume that's going to Brown for now.

2. Wilson is totally unproven regarding pass protection. Does that mean he can't nor will ever be able to block well or be a third down back? No. But you are postulating a lot if you suggest that it's likely.

3. Wilson will likely get a lot of yards, 1 & 2 downs between the 20s, has speed for some breakout runs and long TDs so he's in line for a nice year - with upside. But to "expect" all these other dominos to fall is wishful thinking.

As a Giants fan, I HOPE Im proven wrong and Wilson just goes absolute gangbusters. But don't tell me that anything we have actually seen would suggest this is the year where it's likely to happen.

 

[Pump N Go]

The Giants have to be high on either Wilson or Brown (or both) since they chose not to bring Bradshaw back for peanuts. Not only that, but they haven't chased any other veteran RB's to the best of my knowledge.

I was getting Felix Jones flashbacks for a bit on Wilson but his last year at VT he had 290 carries so he's shown he can be a feature back but even as a Wilson owner I'm skeptical. He couldn't beat out Brown last year until he got hurt and was splitting with Lumpkin at times even after that. I think as long as Brown is healthy (obviously a big if) he will be in the mix and neither will carry the full load.

190 Carries 950 Yards 6 TDs

18 Catches 140 Yards 0 TDs