dawgtrails
Footballguy
If DC was 95% conservative I would hope the democratic party would try to make inroads there and convince voters that they should vote for them. And not resort to keeping them as second class citizens without representation
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DC as 51st state (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter stlrams
- Start date
If DC was 95% conservative I would hope the democratic party would try to make inroads there and convince voters that they should vote for them. And not resort to keeping them as second class citizens without representation
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Or, more likely, they just ignore calls calling for DC to become the 51st state. Let's not pretend the Democrats are moral or are standing on any moral high ground here. You may want to believe they would do that, but there is ZERO percent chance they would do that.
If DC was 95% conservative I would hope the democratic party would try to make inroads there and convince voters that they should vote for them. And not resort to keeping them as second class citizens without representation
dawgtrails
Footballguy
Can you argue a reason why DC shouldn't get statehood that does not include the dems are only advocating for it because they want two more senators? How about Puerto Rico, where do you stand on that one?
Marauder
Footballguy
I don't disagree that the reason the Dems are pushing this now is because it will give them more power. I think we all know that if DC was majority R, then the GOP would be pushing for it and the Dems would be against it. That would be true on this board too. You would be on here arguing in favor of it and most of the Dems on here would be arguing against it. Anybody who doesn't believe this is not being intellectually honest with themselves.
But that's the politics of it. Whether it is the right or wrong thing to do is a separate question. I'd like to hear the arguments why it's a bad idea to give the citizens of DC the same level of representation that the citizens of the 50 states have. Not just "We don't want to give the Democrats more power". Are there real non-partisan arguments why it's a bad idea? This is an honest question, as I admit I haven't done a lot of research on it.
Sea Duck
Footballguy
The evidence doesn't support your conjecture here. The Democratic Party has consistently supported Puerto Rico statehood (despite the territory's conservative leanings), while the Republican party has abandoned its support of DC statehood.
The Republican party lost their moral high ground when they abandoned their principles of self-determination. Seems like the only way to say the same about Democrats is to make sweeping generalizations about "what if" scenarios.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
dawgtrails
Footballguy
Same thing what? Puerto Rico is viewed as a swing state where nobody knows exactly how the senate/representaive vote would shake out
Don Quixote
Footballguy
It is about more than representation to DC residents. In the past year, DC got less money than its population would have suggested in the CARES Act because it was treated like a territory instead of a state. And DC's lack of control over the DC National Guard has raised some issues lately, through the tear gassing for the church photo op during the BLM protests, and the slow response during the Capitol attack earlier this month.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
All for DC becoming part of Maryland or Virginia. Should NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston or any other city just become a state?
rcam
Footballguy
renesauz
IBL Representative
No it wouldn't. DC would carry just a couple of electoral votes.
Where it would matter is the senate....but it seems Republicans already have plenty of cheap seats from the Dakotas, Iowa, etc. Democrats have Rhode Island I guess.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
Which is why the bill doesn't include PR as a state. It's all about power.
Puerto Rico currently has a republican represenatative to US congress
The Football Freak
Footballguy
If DC was 95% conservative, Mitch would have already made it a state.
If DC was 95% conservative I would hope the democratic party would try to make inroads there and convince voters that they should vote for them. And not resort to keeping them as second class citizens without representation
dawgtrails
Footballguy
You can see the difference between these places and DC, right?
If DC was 95% republican leaning, would you want to grant them statehood?
The Football Freak
Footballguy
PR is a territory, so isn’t the process that we arrange another vote, if they agree to one? Do they propose the votes in a bill?
Unity in politics means to me working in a bipartisan group. Ending the filibuster and providing statehood to DC is a giant middle finger to republicans which ends any chance of unity. Can’t have it both ways.
Sea Duck
Footballguy
Here's a thought: how about you actually wait until the thing happens before proclaiming that a thing has happened?
T J
Footballguy
I'm not necessarily in favor of DC statehood.
But I do believe strongly that admitting more territories to the Union would be more unifying than continuing to exclude them.
So if unity is important, that seems like a good argument for adding Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia as states.
But I do believe strongly that admitting more territories to the Union would be more unifying than continuing to exclude them.
So if unity is important, that seems like a good argument for adding Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia as states.
I don't think this is correct. It's partially about getting two senators, but it's also about getting a voting member in the House.
Sand
Footballguy
PR - fine. As a territory they're most of the way there. If DC wants it's folks to have representation give land/population to Maryland or Virginia. As I recall that's happened before and should be the remedy this time, as well. There is a very good reason why DC isn't a state and it is still as valid today as when we were founded.
If we want a grand compromise let's admit PR and DC. At the same time we can split off northern California and eastern Oregon for another state - both of those areas want to be free of the yoke of their far left masters. This would provide a 2 senator counterpoint to the DC senators.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
If DC has to join a state I think they should choose which of the 50 they want to join.
400K votes for the DNC
30K for the RNC
Very bipartisan state.
400K votes for the DNC
30K for the RNC
Very bipartisan state.
Here’s a thought, don't reply to any of my posts. You come in hot every time and don’t have any inclination to have an open and honest discussion. Got it?
MAC_32
Footballguy
What is it? I genuinely don't know. Anytime the subject comes up all I ever read is republicans whining about it being heavily democratic. They're not wrong. And from a debate perspective it's also nonsense.
Can you argue why they should after hundreds of years for both? Why now and what your reason it’s needed?
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
That’s easy. To prevent the further disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of tax-paying citizens.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1:
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
This is one of the silliest arguments I’ve ever read on this board. The Founder’s intention to have a federal district became a ridiculous anachronism the second they let people live and hold property in the Districtv
Can you argue why they should after hundreds of years for both? Why now and what your reason it’s needed?
So that’s been the case for hundreds of years so we need to change now and why?
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
Have we ever as a nation annexed an island or territory and not made it a state?
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
Next congress and the senate should push through statehood for the following after DC and Puerto Rico:
American Samoa.
Guam.
Northern Mariana Islands.
U.S. Virgin Islands.
The way Mitch rammed Kavanaugh and Barrett. HARD AND FAST!
American Samoa.
Guam.
Northern Mariana Islands.
U.S. Virgin Islands.
The way Mitch rammed Kavanaugh and Barrett. HARD AND FAST!
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Presumably because we may have the ovotes. This has been an issue where I’m from (grew up in NOVA, have lived in DC over a decade) for my entire adult life and longer.
That’s like asking “why end segregation now if it’s been around so long.” Because it’s the right thing to do. And yeah, it helps Democrats. But it helps them by lessening the power of a counter-majoriitan anachronism that was enacted to appease slave-holding colonies and that has since benefitted Republicans.
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kwille
Footballguy
Right, like Georgia. Sorry, couldn't resist. Put me down for shrinking the DC footprint and including as many people as possible into neighboring states. Those blue votes would still add up and the people would participate in true representative democracy more than they do now.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
It should have happened decades ago. There are 700,000 people who live in DC, which is more than either VT or WY. The residents of DC pay a #### ton of federal income taxes and really have no say in how that money is spent
Sea Duck
Footballguy
Maryland would gain 1 House seat and 1 electoral vote, while DC would lose 3 electoral votes. Bad deal for Democrats but probably a more fair solution than suddenly appointing 2 Senators and a Representative to DC.
T J
Footballguy
Because it alone, in the entire country, is the nation’s capital and as such, should stay out of the fray and not have representation in the house or senate. If the individuals living there feel that strongly about it, they should move to a place that allows for that representation.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Madison’s justification for the District clause was that he felt that the federal government could not be reliant on any one state for its self-defense. But we know that justification doesn’t hold water today. The government owns land where it possesses the means of defense in states all over the country. I mean, the seat of Defense Department is in Virginia.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Meh. Various States have switched their political party identity throughout history. Says more about Republicans and their platform that they feel they can't or refuse to identify with the people of D.C.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
zoonation
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
I don't understand your first paragraph. It assumes that we are currently at some proper balance between GOP and DEM representation. So I guess I would ask:
1) Why is the current makeup the proper balance? Doesn't it change over time?
2) How would adding a state disrupt that balance?
supermike80
Footballguy
This one, to me comes down to the "Sorry you lost" situation.
There are winners and losers in politics. Trump was able to get his SC justices confirmed because the GOP Held the power.
Well now the dems hold the power and that means they get to push agendas they feel are important to their needs. It's just the way politics work.---to me anyway.
I completely and totally agree that if DC was a GOP strong area this wouldn't be a topic at all with todays administration, but that's kinda obvious isn't it?
There are winners and losers in politics. Trump was able to get his SC justices confirmed because the GOP Held the power.
Well now the dems hold the power and that means they get to push agendas they feel are important to their needs. It's just the way politics work.---to me anyway.
I completely and totally agree that if DC was a GOP strong area this wouldn't be a topic at all with todays administration, but that's kinda obvious isn't it?
Please just stop. It’s nothing more than a permanent power grab so let’s stop kidding.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Can you give me one good reason other than "naked power grab"?
Here are a bunch of other reasons.
Stop giving me reasons! It's just a naked power grab!
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Regardless of their political affiliation, do you think it is fair that residents of the 20th most populous city in the country have almost no representation in Congress?
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
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