DeAngelo Williams vs. Michael Turner (1 Viewer)

[gianmarco]

When I watch DeAngelo play, I just don't see a starting RB. When I see Michael Turner play, I see a 300 carry RB with breakaway speed. It's not close for me. DeAngelo may have talent, but it is telling to me that he could not take the job from Foster when he had ample opportunity to do it.

Umm, isn't this exactly what he did by Car trading Foster?

They didn't cut Foster because of DeAngelo; they cut Foster because of Foster not doing much, plus the salary cap.

Therein lies the difference. Signing a player to a fat contract is an endorsement of that player.

Cutting a starter is not (necessarily) an endorsement of his backup. What Carolina does in the draft should offer strong clues about their opinion of Williams. Personally, I would hold off on acquiring him until after the draft. His value won't shoot up a ton if he becomes their starter, but it will drop a ton if they draft Mendenhall or Stewart.

Thanks EBF, I have been thinking about this for a couple of days and have watched all of the Youtube Highlights on Williams. I see a great third down back in the NFL, I'll Repeat I see a great third down back in the NFL that doesn’t catch the ball much out of the backfield (In College). Talent yes, but the person who wrote Williams > Turner is either biased or is going to have to point me to some video that clearly shows Williams the Complete back. I don’t see it, I thought I've missed something while watching football the last two years, only a couple of Carolina games, but I just don’t see it. I don’t know what Turner will do this year, but I'm going to bet that he will be a good 30-40% more productive than Williams. Stats don’t lie unless they do. Sometimes they don’t tell the whole story. Watch all the Video available online for these two. I believe that if you are objective you will come to the same conclusion that I do, Turner is clearly the more talented back.

My only issue with what you are saying is that Williams was good enough to warrant being drafted in the 1st round. And it's not as if Carolina reached on him. He was projected to be a 1st round pick by NFL scouts whose job it is to figure out who is worth it and who isn't. I seriously doubt they draft a RB in the 1st round if all they see out of him is a 3rd down back. Now, I'm not saying that where a guy is drafted is the definitive measure to his ability. But, without him showing whether or not he can carry a full load in the NFL, it's a bit premature to write him off. That being said, I've never been very impressed from what I've seen from him on the field as well. He's never "wowed' me by anything he's done on the field. That doesn't mean he can't be a full-time back, just that he may not be an elite full-time back or even a very good full-time back. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion and if that's what you see on the field, then that's what you see. But, combine his draft position, NFL scouting, as well as his NFL stats over his 1st 2 yrs, and I think a lot of us may be writing this guy off way too early (myself included). I can't put my finger on it, but something seems to be missing on the "eye test" but yet he still seems to get it done.

 

[Biabreakable]

When I watch DeAngelo play, I just don't see a starting RB. When I see Michael Turner play, I see a 300 carry RB with breakaway speed. It's not close for me. DeAngelo may have talent, but it is telling to me that he could not take the job from Foster when he had ample opportunity to do it.

Umm, isn't this exactly what he did by Car trading Foster?

They didn't cut Foster because of DeAngelo; they cut Foster because of Foster not doing much, plus the salary cap.

Therein lies the difference. Signing a player to a fat contract is an endorsement of that player.

Cutting a starter is not (necessarily) an endorsement of his backup. What Carolina does in the draft should offer strong clues about their opinion of Williams. Personally, I would hold off on acquiring him until after the draft. His value won't shoot up a ton if he becomes their starter, but it will drop a ton if they draft Mendenhall or Stewart.

Thanks EBF, I have been thinking about this for a couple of days and have watched all of the Youtube Highlights on Williams. I see a great third down back in the NFL, I'll Repeat I see a great third down back in the NFL that doesn’t catch the ball much out of the backfield (In College). Talent yes, but the person who wrote Williams > Turner is either biased or is going to have to point me to some video that clearly shows Williams the Complete back. I don’t see it, I thought I've missed something while watching football the last two years, only a couple of Carolina games, but I just don’t see it. I don’t know what Turner will do this year, but I'm going to bet that he will be a good 30-40% more productive than Williams. Stats don’t lie unless they do. Sometimes they don’t tell the whole story. Watch all the Video available online for these two. I believe that if you are objective you will come to the same conclusion that I do, Turner is clearly the more talented back.

So you watched a few youtube higlight reels on Williams and suddenly become a scout better than the professional scouts? But you not biased?I scouted and read everything about all of the RBs of DeAngelo's class while prepping for the upcoming draft. He looked like the best RB of that class to me. Including Bush. If you want to talk about a RB who cannot run between the tackles its Bush not Williams.

In your 2 days of study did you recognize that Williams was one of the most productive RBs in college during his time there?

You want me to point out video? Why your an expert on the situation after watching a few youtubes right?

You have only seen 2 Carolina games. I recomend if your eye for who is or isn't a complete RB is so important to you in making these decisions that you watch more than 2 games of the guy. And try having a objective point of view about it while your at it. Because I can read from your tone that you went into this analysis with a bias towards Turner before you even began.

All of the professional scouts saw Williams as a 1st round RB talent which he turned out to be. Those same scouts never considered Turner to be on that level. But what would they know? They should watch a couple youtubes so they could objectivly come to the same conclushion that you have.

 

[Milwaukees_best]

Thats a good point. I remember Mock drafts had the Jets taking Deangelo (I think at 4?) before they sprung big cash on Thomas Jones. I bet they are kicking themselves now.

People are too quick to write off Deangelo. as for the idea of taking another RB with the first round pick - thats just plain nonsense. Who carries 2 first round draft picks at the same position on the roster without giving one guy the chance to be the man?

They will draft a guy - probably in round 3 who will be a good backup RB. Now is about the last few weeks to buy on Deangelo Williams.

 

[EBF]

All of the professional scouts saw Williams as a 1st round RB talent which he turned out to be. Those same scouts never considered Turner to be on that level. But what would they know? They should watch a couple youtubes so they could objectivly come to the same conclushion that you have.

You can only take that logic so far. It was two years ago that Williams was selected in the draft. In those two NFL seasons he hasn't distinguished himself as an exceptional talent. Turner might not be a stud either, but he played well enough to get "professional scouts" to deem him worthy of a fat contract and a starting role. So while I'm a big fan of using draft position when gauging prospects, I think the idea that Williams is better than Turner because Williams was a high pick is flawed to say the least. I was lukewarm on D-Will when he was entering the league. He shows some flashes and has a good stocky build, but he seemed to get eaten alive by tacklers and didn't quite have elite burst (good, but not great). I don't think he's a lock for success, but he is one of the most intriguing RB2 candidates out there right now. He certainly has a high upside if he can seize this opportunity and capitalize.

 

[BigJim®]

You can only take that logic so far. It was two years ago that Williams was selected in the draft. In those two NFL seasons he hasn't distinguished himself as an exceptional talent. Turner might not be a stud either, but he played well enough to get "professional scouts" to deem him worthy of a fat contract and a starting role. So while I'm a big fan of using draft position when gauging prospects, I think the idea that Williams is better than Turner because Williams was a high pick is flawed to say the least.

I agree it doesn't make sense to value him over Turner based on draft position, but I disagree that he has not shown himself to be an exceptional back in his first 2 years. First off, he hasn't had an opportunity. Second off, 4.6 YPC and 1700 total yards in his limited action is definitely impressive. I'm couldn't speculate how professional scouts opine on Williams merits for a big contract; he isn't up for one so its anyone's guess. To me it is 100% hinging on Fox. But keep in mind this same guy who did not allow 2nd rounder Foster to play vs. Stephen Davis, then stood by Foster steadfast vs. a 1st round RB for 2 season. There doesnlt seem to be any rhyme or reason to it other than going with the vet, and that's Deangelo for now. It's obviously the make or break season.

 

[mdog1967]

When I watch DeAngelo play, I just don't see a starting RB. When I see Michael Turner play, I see a 300 carry RB with breakaway speed. It's not close for me. DeAngelo may have talent, but it is telling to me that he could not take the job from Foster when he had ample opportunity to do it.

Umm, isn't this exactly what he did by Car trading Foster?

They didn't cut Foster because of DeAngelo; they cut Foster because of Foster not doing much, plus the salary cap.

Therein lies the difference. Signing a player to a fat contract is an endorsement of that player.

Cutting a starter is not (necessarily) an endorsement of his backup. What Carolina does in the draft should offer strong clues about their opinion of Williams. Personally, I would hold off on acquiring him until after the draft. His value won't shoot up a ton if he becomes their starter, but it will drop a ton if they draft Mendenhall or Stewart.

Thanks EBF, I have been thinking about this for a couple of days and have watched all of the Youtube Highlights on Williams. I see a great third down back in the NFL, I'll Repeat I see a great third down back in the NFL that doesn’t catch the ball much out of the backfield (In College). Talent yes, but the person who wrote Williams > Turner is either biased or is going to have to point me to some video that clearly shows Williams the Complete back. I don’t see it, I thought I've missed something while watching football the last two years, only a couple of Carolina games, but I just don’t see it. I don’t know what Turner will do this year, but I'm going to bet that he will be a good 30-40% more productive than Williams. Stats don’t lie unless they do. Sometimes they don’t tell the whole story. Watch all the Video available online for these two. I believe that if you are objective you will come to the same conclusion that I do, Turner is clearly the more talented back.

So you watched a few youtube higlight reels on Williams and suddenly become a scout better than the professional scouts? But you not biased?I scouted and read everything about all of the RBs of DeAngelo's class while prepping for the upcoming draft. He looked like the best RB of that class to me. Including Bush. If you want to talk about a RB who cannot run between the tackles its Bush not Williams.

In your 2 days of study did you recognize that Williams was one of the most productive RBs in college during his time there?

You want me to point out video? Why your an expert on the situation after watching a few youtubes right?

You have only seen 2 Carolina games. I recomend if your eye for who is or isn't a complete RB is so important to you in making these decisions that you watch more than 2 games of the guy. And try having a objective point of view about it while your at it. Because I can read from your tone that you went into this analysis with a bias towards Turner before you even began.

All of the professional scouts saw Williams as a 1st round RB talent which he turned out to be. Those same scouts never considered Turner to be on that level. But what would they know? They should watch a couple youtubes so they could objectivly come to the same conclushion that you have.

How to answer your better than the scouts argument? Well one I like you have watched football all of my life, 40+ years and had have played a little as well. I don’t claim to be a scout but I know what my eyes see, yes I have a biased for Turner because he looks like a damn good RB. The secret to scouting in the NFL is anyone and I mean anyone can be an NFL scout. Just go take a course from Sports Management Worldwide or one of the other training institutions and wham you’re an NFL scout. You don’t have to have been an NFL player, coach or even a fan. Most scouts are going to follow the heard and play it safe. I’ll tell you something else; I’ll take the advice from many FBG forum posters over the so-called scouts. Hell the staff at FBG given the time could scout as well or better than a good portion of the people in the business. So save that argument for some kid you met in the park. If you’re going to argue why Williams is the better back then lay it out there. Don’t tell me what everyone already has read from the scouts; give me your reason why. You want to base it on stats, on college competition or whatever. I gave my opinion and why I think others should take a look at the video out there. Your eyes don’t lie. If my post seems to have a little "tone" too it then maybe you should re-read my first post, no tone just stateing opinion. Didnt attack Williams, didnt call him a bust, just called like I see it.

 

[Liquid Tension]

When I watch DeAngelo play, I just don't see a starting RB. When I see Michael Turner play, I see a 300 carry RB with breakaway speed. It's not close for me. DeAngelo may have talent, but it is telling to me that he could not take the job from Foster when he had ample opportunity to do it.

Umm, isn't this exactly what he did by Car trading Foster?

They didn't cut Foster because of DeAngelo; they cut Foster because of Foster not doing much, plus the salary cap.

Therein lies the difference. Signing a player to a fat contract is an endorsement of that player.

Cutting a starter is not (necessarily) an endorsement of his backup. What Carolina does in the draft should offer strong clues about their opinion of Williams. Personally, I would hold off on acquiring him until after the draft. His value won't shoot up a ton if he becomes their starter, but it will drop a ton if they draft Mendenhall or Stewart.

Thanks EBF, I have been thinking about this for a couple of days and have watched all of the Youtube Highlights on Williams. I see a great third down back in the NFL, I'll Repeat I see a great third down back in the NFL that doesn’t catch the ball much out of the backfield (In College). Talent yes, but the person who wrote Williams > Turner is either biased or is going to have to point me to some video that clearly shows Williams the Complete back. I don’t see it, I thought I've missed something while watching football the last two years, only a couple of Carolina games, but I just don’t see it. I don’t know what Turner will do this year, but I'm going to bet that he will be a good 30-40% more productive than Williams. Stats don’t lie unless they do. Sometimes they don’t tell the whole story. Watch all the Video available online for these two. I believe that if you are objective you will come to the same conclusion that I do, Turner is clearly the more talented back.

So you watched a few youtube higlight reels on Williams and suddenly become a scout better than the professional scouts? But you not biased?I scouted and read everything about all of the RBs of DeAngelo's class while prepping for the upcoming draft. He looked like the best RB of that class to me. Including Bush. If you want to talk about a RB who cannot run between the tackles its Bush not Williams.

In your 2 days of study did you recognize that Williams was one of the most productive RBs in college during his time there?

You want me to point out video? Why your an expert on the situation after watching a few youtubes right?

You have only seen 2 Carolina games. I recomend if your eye for who is or isn't a complete RB is so important to you in making these decisions that you watch more than 2 games of the guy. And try having a objective point of view about it while your at it. Because I can read from your tone that you went into this analysis with a bias towards Turner before you even began.

All of the professional scouts saw Williams as a 1st round RB talent which he turned out to be. Those same scouts never considered Turner to be on that level. But what would they know? They should watch a couple youtubes so they could objectivly come to the same conclushion that you have.

How to answer your better than the scouts argument? Well one I like you have watched football all of my life, 40+ years and had have played a little as well. I don’t claim to be a scout but I know what my eyes see, yes I have a biased for Turner because he looks like a damn good RB. The secret to scouting in the NFL is anyone and I mean anyone can be an NFL scout. Just go take a course from Sports Management Worldwide or one of the other training institutions and wham you’re an NFL scout. You don’t have to have been an NFL player, coach or even a fan. Most scouts are going to fallow the heard and play it safe. I’ll tell you something else; I’ll take the advice from many FBG forum posters over the so-called scouts. Hell the staff at FBG given the time could scout as well or better than a good portion of the people in the business. So save that argument for some kid you met in the park. If you’re going to argue why Williams is the better back then lay it out there. Don’t tell me what everyone already has read from the scouts; give me your reason why. You want to base it on stats, on college competition or whatever. I gave my opinion and why I think others should take a look at the video out there. Your eyes don’t lie. If my post seems to have a little "tone" too it then maybe you should re-read my first post, no tone just stateing opinion. Didnt attack Williams, didnt call him a bust, just called like I see it.

This was his opinion, others can take it FWIW. I am not saying I agree or disagree with his conclusions, but the idea that the scouts know everything is absurd. There are many people who are not very strong in evaluations; we see it all the time. using baseball as an example, look how many people disagreed with what billy Beane was doing and kept relying on their scouts ONLY. Just recently we have seen OPS become a huge factor in analysis and it is clear that the scouts were WAY behind because they are human and have bias.Getting back to football, which does NOT lend itself to statistical study nearly as much as baseball, you do need scouts. But, to think they have so much more ability to judge talent than some others who are not in the business (but are serious in watching watching tape sometimes over and over) is a reach if you ask me.

"they must know what they are doing" is not really a good argument IMO.

 

[Phalic0192]

This youtube clip is from the Atlanta game in 2006, DeAngelo's rookie year. In this game Delhomme was injured and Chris Weinke was as bad as David Carr. So, on third down the Panther's used a single wing set with DeAngelo as the QB. This clip should show that he has great vision and some good toughness. Props to AKPantherFan.

 

[Tau837]

This youtube clip is from the Atlanta game in 2006, DeAngelo's rookie year. In this game Delhomme was injured and Chris Weinke was as bad as David Carr. So, on third down the Panther's used a single wing set with DeAngelo as the QB. This clip should show that he has great vision and some good toughness. Props to AKPantherFan.

Granted it was only one game against the Falcons, but that is an impressive clip IMO. Thanks for posting.

 

[gianmarco]

This youtube clip is from the Atlanta game in 2006, DeAngelo's rookie year. In this game Delhomme was injured and Chris Weinke was as bad as David Carr. So, on third down the Panther's used a single wing set with DeAngelo as the QB. This clip should show that he has great vision and some good toughness. Props to AKPantherFan.

Agreed.

 

[switz]

This youtube clip is from the Atlanta game in 2006, DeAngelo's rookie year. In this game Delhomme was injured and Chris Weinke was as bad as David Carr. So, on third down the Panther's used a single wing set with DeAngelo as the QB. This clip should show that he has great vision and some good toughness. Props to AKPantherFan.

It would be more impressive if Foster hadn't also had a 100 yard game against the pathetic Falcons D.Not trying to take away from Williams, but taking the video in context does diminish it quite a bit.

 

[Phalic0192]

This youtube clip is from the Atlanta game in 2006, DeAngelo's rookie year. In this game Delhomme was injured and Chris Weinke was as bad as David Carr. So, on third down the Panther's used a single wing set with DeAngelo as the QB. This clip should show that he has great vision and some good toughness. Props to AKPantherFan.

Yeah, I can agree. But to me it just shows that he does have the ability to play in the NFL. Whether that is as a full-time back or only a part of a rbbc is yet to be seen.

 

[Biabreakable]

All of the professional scouts saw Williams as a 1st round RB talent which he turned out to be. Those same scouts never considered Turner to be on that level. But what would they know? They should watch a couple youtubes so they could objectivly come to the same conclushion that you have.

You can only take that logic so far. It was two years ago that Williams was selected in the draft. In those two NFL seasons he hasn't distinguished himself as an exceptional talent. Turner might not be a stud either, but he played well enough to get "professional scouts" to deem him worthy of a fat contract and a starting role. So while I'm a big fan of using draft position when gauging prospects, I think the idea that Williams is better than Turner because Williams was a high pick is flawed to say the least. I was lukewarm on D-Will when he was entering the league. He shows some flashes and has a good stocky build, but he seemed to get eaten alive by tacklers and didn't quite have elite burst (good, but not great). I don't think he's a lock for success, but he is one of the most intriguing RB2 candidates out there right now. He certainly has a high upside if he can seize this opportunity and capitalize.

Interesting to hear you take that position when pedigree has been one of hugely significant factors in how you evaluate players for dynasty. From my experience over the years you have been a much bigger proponent of draft position in player evaluation than I have been. So are you saying that your evaluation over the years based off of this criteria has been flawed?

 

[Biabreakable]

When I watch DeAngelo play, I just don't see a starting RB. When I see Michael Turner play, I see a 300 carry RB with breakaway speed. It's not close for me. DeAngelo may have talent, but it is telling to me that he could not take the job from Foster when he had ample opportunity to do it.

Umm, isn't this exactly what he did by Car trading Foster?

They didn't cut Foster because of DeAngelo; they cut Foster because of Foster not doing much, plus the salary cap.

Therein lies the difference. Signing a player to a fat contract is an endorsement of that player.

Cutting a starter is not (necessarily) an endorsement of his backup. What Carolina does in the draft should offer strong clues about their opinion of Williams. Personally, I would hold off on acquiring him until after the draft. His value won't shoot up a ton if he becomes their starter, but it will drop a ton if they draft Mendenhall or Stewart.

Thanks EBF, I have been thinking about this for a couple of days and have watched all of the Youtube Highlights on Williams. I see a great third down back in the NFL, I'll Repeat I see a great third down back in the NFL that doesn’t catch the ball much out of the backfield (In College). Talent yes, but the person who wrote Williams > Turner is either biased or is going to have to point me to some video that clearly shows Williams the Complete back. I don’t see it, I thought I've missed something while watching football the last two years, only a couple of Carolina games, but I just don’t see it. I don’t know what Turner will do this year, but I'm going to bet that he will be a good 30-40% more productive than Williams. Stats don’t lie unless they do. Sometimes they don’t tell the whole story. Watch all the Video available online for these two. I believe that if you are objective you will come to the same conclusion that I do, Turner is clearly the more talented back.

So you watched a few youtube higlight reels on Williams and suddenly become a scout better than the professional scouts? But you not biased?I scouted and read everything about all of the RBs of DeAngelo's class while prepping for the upcoming draft. He looked like the best RB of that class to me. Including Bush. If you want to talk about a RB who cannot run between the tackles its Bush not Williams.

In your 2 days of study did you recognize that Williams was one of the most productive RBs in college during his time there?

You want me to point out video? Why your an expert on the situation after watching a few youtubes right?

You have only seen 2 Carolina games. I recomend if your eye for who is or isn't a complete RB is so important to you in making these decisions that you watch more than 2 games of the guy. And try having a objective point of view about it while your at it. Because I can read from your tone that you went into this analysis with a bias towards Turner before you even began.

All of the professional scouts saw Williams as a 1st round RB talent which he turned out to be. Those same scouts never considered Turner to be on that level. But what would they know? They should watch a couple youtubes so they could objectivly come to the same conclushion that you have.

How to answer your better than the scouts argument? Well one I like you have watched football all of my life, 40+ years and had have played a little as well. I don’t claim to be a scout but I know what my eyes see, yes I have a biased for Turner because he looks like a damn good RB. The secret to scouting in the NFL is anyone and I mean anyone can be an NFL scout. Just go take a course from Sports Management Worldwide or one of the other training institutions and wham you’re an NFL scout. You don’t have to have been an NFL player, coach or even a fan. Most scouts are going to fallow the heard and play it safe. I’ll tell you something else; I’ll take the advice from many FBG forum posters over the so-called scouts. Hell the staff at FBG given the time could scout as well or better than a good portion of the people in the business. So save that argument for some kid you met in the park. If you’re going to argue why Williams is the better back then lay it out there. Don’t tell me what everyone already has read from the scouts; give me your reason why. You want to base it on stats, on college competition or whatever. I gave my opinion and why I think others should take a look at the video out there. Your eyes don’t lie. If my post seems to have a little "tone" too it then maybe you should re-read my first post, no tone just stateing opinion. Didnt attack Williams, didnt call him a bust, just called like I see it.

Nice to see so many posters here do not trust NFL scouts as the end all be all to player evaluation. I agree with this. I also think that when people watch players they see what they want to see. A power runner breaking tackles is more impressive to the observer than a graceful player who uses a combination of balance, vision and agility to make defenders miss. The player breaking tackles will be more impressive than a player making a subtle move to gain additional yardage.You miss the point of my sarcastic and exaggerated post however. The bolded line above is what I take issue with. "Watch all the Video available online for these two. You say: "I believe that if you are objective you will come to the same conclusion that I do, Turner is clearly the more talented back." You say this while also saying that you have not seen much of Williams. So where is the objectivity?

1st of all anyone watching has a subjective point of view. An objective point of view would be one based on facts.

Sand Diego's offensive line is far superior to Carolina's. Also the supporting cast on SD offense as well as defense supports the running game more than those factors are supporting Carolina's running game. So when you are watching these 2 players are you really making an objective comparision between the two? Many of Turners runs he is running full speed well past the LOS before being touched. He does not have to make defenders miss like Williams does behind or at the LOS.

Most of Turners plays have come after LT has worn the defense down. I would not say Foster is as tiring to a defense as LT and SD Oline.

2nd based on the criteria of watching the two players I do not come to the same conclushion as you do. I have seen a bulk of most of both players on the professional level. I like Turner a lot and think he has a great combination of speed and power. I think he will be successful as a starting RB. I also think that DeAngelo Williams will be successful as a starter and to me he is a more complete RB than Turner, being well rounded in his skill set. I think Williams has more tools available to him as a runner than Turner has.

Now that Turner is in Atlanta (a poor team and Oline) the playing field for both players is much more even. I think Williams has more tools as a runner to overcome that adversity than Turner does. I also think Williams running style will last longer over time than Turners style does. Turner runs to contact much more often and because of that I believe he will be a bigger risk for injury.

This is where the subjective side of how the eye of the beholder will see different things. I tend to look for RBs like Curtis Martin. Smallish, illusive RBs with well rounded games as opposed to the bigger more powerful RBs like Turner. That is just my subjective opinion and a matter of preference. I know from experience that a player like Curtis Martin or Tiki Barber can get the job done and with better chances to stay healthy and producitive because of their skill set long term than players like Marion Butts and Lamont Jordan, who Turner more reminds me of.

 

[mdog1967]

Thanks, a better post. Its True I have not watched as much of Williams as I have of Turner, I guess well know when we know it.

I hope I didnt come off like to much of a Donkey

 

[Rattlesnake]

 

[Banger]

bump...

 

[mdog1967]

bump...

Its better I quit while I'm Ahead.

 

[jurb26]

Car = New Den of RBs in the shark pool.

 

[UnknownCoach]

People love underdogs. Turner came into the league with much lower expectations. Also one is now locked into a starting role and the other isnt.

There are a number of differences between the two including size and receiving ability. So I assume you only want to compare why people are cheering one on more than the other.

 

[duaneok66]

This thread was funny before the draft, now it's downright hysterical . . .

 

[cstu]

This thread was funny before the draft, now it's downright hysterical . . .

DeAngelo is the new Turner. It won't be long before he's demanding a trade (rightly so) and will get a starting job somewhere else.

 

[duaneok66]

This thread was funny before the draft, now it's downright hysterical . . .

DeAngelo is the new Turner. It won't be long before he's demanding a trade (rightly so) and will get a starting job somewhere else.

San Diego didn't draft a 1st running back after acquiring Turner . . .the two situations aren't close . . .the only place Williams starts will be north of the border . . .

 

[Knight who says Ni]

Is Stewart expected to be 100% by opening day?

 

[duaneok66]

Is Stewart expected to be 100% by opening day?

the CAR physician is the one that performed the surgery . . .he greenlit the pick , so I assume he thinks he'll be ready . . .

 

[Banger]

Car = New Den of RBs in the shark pool.

w/out the upside...

 

[switz]

Car = New Den of RBs in the shark pool.

w/out the upside...

CAR has done a lot to address their OL, which was the main reason for the RB struggles last season. I think Stewart (as much as I don't think he's a great RB) will put up good numbers this season.

 

[Otis]

Turner couldn't get a starting job on the Chargers, which means the coaching staff probably think he isn't the best RB in the league.Williams couldn't get a starting job on the Panthers, which means the coaching staff probably think he isn't one of the top 20 RBs in the league.Coaches don't always play the right guy, but there's a good bit of evidence that Williams isn't an elite talent because he couldn't steal the job from DeShaun Foster. On the other hand, he did perform well, and I think you'll see his stock rise quite a bit if Carolina doesn't add anyone in the draft or free agency. Lots of people were high on Williams two years ago, and he hasn't really underperformed or disappointed since then. He'll get a chance to show it this year.Turner has averaged nearly a full yard more per carry so far into his career, so it's understandable why the hype is a bit higher there.

Horrible comparison. If you aren't unseating Dehaun Foster by a big margin, you aren't all that impressive.

 

[UnknownCoach]

This thread was funny before the draft, now it's downright hysterical . . .

DeAngelo is the new Turner. It won't be long before he's demanding a trade (rightly so) and will get a starting job somewhere else.

As much as I'd like to see it, it wont happen. Carolina drafted Foster while sticking with Stephen Davis. They drafted DWill while sticking with Foster. They have shown an obvious desire to keep 2+ quality backs on the team.

 

[brock]

turner and its not even close

 

[switz]

This thread was funny before the draft, now it's downright hysterical . . .

DeAngelo is the new Turner. It won't be long before he's demanding a trade (rightly so) and will get a starting job somewhere else.

As much as I'd like to see it, it wont happen. Carolina drafted Foster while sticking with Stephen Davis. They drafted DWill while sticking with Foster. They have shown an obvious desire to keep 2+ quality backs on the team.

What people fail to realize is that Williams is not a highly desired commodity in the NFL.When Turner was an RFA, there was talk about which team would pony up the picks to acquire him. That's just not the case with Williams, who is viewed as nothing more than COP material.

 

[cstu]

This thread was funny before the draft, now it's downright hysterical . . .

DeAngelo is the new Turner. It won't be long before he's demanding a trade (rightly so) and will get a starting job somewhere else.

As much as I'd like to see it, it wont happen. Carolina drafted Foster while sticking with Stephen Davis. They drafted DWill while sticking with Foster. They have shown an obvious desire to keep 2+ quality backs on the team.

What people fail to realize is that Williams is not a highly desired commodity in the NFL.When Turner was an RFA, there was talk about which team would pony up the picks to acquire him. That's just not the case with Williams, who is viewed as nothing more than COP material.

DeW isn't even a RFA so we don't know how other teams value him. He signed a 5 year deal so he'll have to demand a trade to get out of Carolina early. The issue with DeW is that he's not a good pass blocker, something that he'll need to improve if he's ever going to be a starter. That's what has kept him from playing more, not that he's too small or just a COP back.

 

[mdog1967]

This thread was funny before the draft, now it's downright hysterical . . .

DeAngelo is the new Turner. It won't be long before he's demanding a trade (rightly so) and will get a starting job somewhere else.

As much as I'd like to see it, it wont happen. Carolina drafted Foster while sticking with Stephen Davis. They drafted DWill while sticking with Foster. They have shown an obvious desire to keep 2+ quality backs on the team.

What people fail to realize is that Williams is not a highly desired commodity in the NFL.When Turner was an RFA, there was talk about which team would pony up the picks to acquire him. That's just not the case with Williams, who is viewed as nothing more than COP material.

DeW isn't even a RFA so we don't know how other teams value him. He signed a 5 year deal so he'll have to demand a trade to get out of Carolina early. The issue with DeW is that he's not a good pass blocker, something that he'll need to improve if he's ever going to be a starter. That's what has kept him from playing more, not that he's too small or just a COP back.

CSTU you have some pretty good posts time to time. I think we all suffer from latching on to a conception about a player, particularly one we own or one that is on our team. Carolina must not have believed that Williams was the guy. Its more than what we see on Sunday, its also what "they" see in practice. The other option is they felt that Stew was just too good to pass on. Considering they could have went a number of different directions, or traded to get more picks it doesn't look too good for Williams prospects as an eventual starter. The first response from a fantasy owners perspective when apple cart gets turned upside down, meaning someone that we own and thought was going to be the starter has their potential value crushed in the draft is:1. Shock - I cant believe they drafted him, right? Were not Williams owners every where stunned?

2. Denial - They just drafted him because he was the best value and Williams needs a legit back up, right? Not in the first round my friends. Unless your Jerry Jones

3. Anger - This is point were we make excuses and try to justify why Williams value is just as high as it was before(like the Comment that Williams is the new Turner), we want to believe that Stewert wont be the starter for 2-3 years. At worse he will be the Goal Line back, so Williams will lose a TD or two no big deal right? The anger helps us justify our Denial.

4. Acceptance - Now you've went back and watched the Youtube and ESPN highlights and realize, Stewerts probably gonna be the starter. He's elusive, powerful, fast and has great vision. Oh and he can catch out of the Backfield. He didnt wait to get his surgery on that toe of his, he's proactive. Another good sign the guy wants to play football real bad. Finally like others have already pointed out - The Panthers team Doctor did the Surgery.

I would speculate that the Panthers would have taken him anywhere after pick 6, I think that if he was not the Number one on their board, he was pretty close.

 

[cstu]

This thread was funny before the draft, now it's downright hysterical . . .

DeAngelo is the new Turner. It won't be long before he's demanding a trade (rightly so) and will get a starting job somewhere else.

As much as I'd like to see it, it wont happen. Carolina drafted Foster while sticking with Stephen Davis. They drafted DWill while sticking with Foster. They have shown an obvious desire to keep 2+ quality backs on the team.

What people fail to realize is that Williams is not a highly desired commodity in the NFL.When Turner was an RFA, there was talk about which team would pony up the picks to acquire him. That's just not the case with Williams, who is viewed as nothing more than COP material.

DeW isn't even a RFA so we don't know how other teams value him. He signed a 5 year deal so he'll have to demand a trade to get out of Carolina early. The issue with DeW is that he's not a good pass blocker, something that he'll need to improve if he's ever going to be a starter. That's what has kept him from playing more, not that he's too small or just a COP back.

CSTU you have some pretty good posts time to time. I think we all suffer from latching on to a conception about a player, particularly one we own or one that is on our team. Carolina must not have believed that Williams was the guy. Its more than what we see on Sunday, its also what "they" see in practice. The other option is they felt that Stew was just too good to pass on. Considering they could have went a number of different directions, or traded to get more picks it doesn't look too good for Williams prospects as an eventual starter. The first response from a fantasy owners perspective when apple cart gets turned upside down, meaning someone that we own and thought was going to be the starter has their potential value crushed in the draft is:1. Shock - I cant believe they drafted him, right? Were not Williams owners every where stunned?

2. Denial - They just drafted him because he was the best value and Williams needs a legit back up, right? Not in the first round my friends. Unless your Jerry Jones

3. Anger - This is point were we make excuses and try to justify why Williams value is just as high as it was before(like the Comment that Williams is the new Turner), we want to believe that Stewert wont be the starter for 2-3 years. At worse he will be the Goal Line back, so Williams will lose a TD or two no big deal right? The anger helps us justify our Denial.

4. Acceptance - Now you've went back and watched the Youtube and ESPN highlights and realize, Stewerts probably gonna be the starter. He's elusive, powerful, fast and has great vision. Oh and he can catch out of the Backfield. He didnt wait to get his surgery on that toe of his, he's proactive. Another good sign the guy wants to play football real bad. Finally like others have already pointed out - The Panthers team Doctor did the Surgery.

I would speculate that the Panthers would have taken him anywhere after pick 6, I think that if he was not the Number one on their board, he was pretty close.

The funny thing is I don't own him in any leagues, but I'll admit I'm partial to him. Going into the draft it was well-known that the Panthers would draft a power back and the surprise was that they drafted the best one in the draft. Frankly, I'm not deluded into thinking there's any way he can hold off Stewart, barring injury of course. The issue with him is not his size (although it doesn't fit what Fox wants) or his running ability - I believe it's simply that his pass-blocking is not adequate. If he doesn't improve that then he won't be the first back who couldn't make it as a starter because of it.

 

[gianmarco]

This thread was funny before the draft, now it's downright hysterical . . .

DeAngelo is the new Turner. It won't be long before he's demanding a trade (rightly so) and will get a starting job somewhere else.

As much as I'd like to see it, it wont happen. Carolina drafted Foster while sticking with Stephen Davis. They drafted DWill while sticking with Foster. They have shown an obvious desire to keep 2+ quality backs on the team.

What people fail to realize is that Williams is not a highly desired commodity in the NFL.When Turner was an RFA, there was talk about which team would pony up the picks to acquire him. That's just not the case with Williams, who is viewed as nothing more than COP material.

DeW isn't even a RFA so we don't know how other teams value him. He signed a 5 year deal so he'll have to demand a trade to get out of Carolina early. The issue with DeW is that he's not a good pass blocker, something that he'll need to improve if he's ever going to be a starter. That's what has kept him from playing more, not that he's too small or just a COP back.

CSTU you have some pretty good posts time to time. I think we all suffer from latching on to a conception about a player, particularly one we own or one that is on our team. Carolina must not have believed that Williams was the guy. Its more than what we see on Sunday, its also what "they" see in practice. The other option is they felt that Stew was just too good to pass on. Considering they could have went a number of different directions, or traded to get more picks it doesn't look too good for Williams prospects as an eventual starter. The first response from a fantasy owners perspective when apple cart gets turned upside down, meaning someone that we own and thought was going to be the starter has their potential value crushed in the draft is:1. Shock - I cant believe they drafted him, right? Were not Williams owners every where stunned?

2. Denial - They just drafted him because he was the best value and Williams needs a legit back up, right? Not in the first round my friends. Unless your Jerry Jones

3. Anger - This is point were we make excuses and try to justify why Williams value is just as high as it was before(like the Comment that Williams is the new Turner), we want to believe that Stewert wont be the starter for 2-3 years. At worse he will be the Goal Line back, so Williams will lose a TD or two no big deal right? The anger helps us justify our Denial.

4. Acceptance - Now you've went back and watched the Youtube and ESPN highlights and realize, Stewerts probably gonna be the starter. He's elusive, powerful, fast and has great vision. Oh and he can catch out of the Backfield. He didnt wait to get his surgery on that toe of his, he's proactive. Another good sign the guy wants to play football real bad. Finally like others have already pointed out - The Panthers team Doctor did the Surgery.

I would speculate that the Panthers would have taken him anywhere after pick 6, I think that if he was not the Number one on their board, he was pretty close.

The funny thing is I don't own him in any leagues, but I'll admit I'm partial to him. Going into the draft it was well-known that the Panthers would draft a power back and the surprise was that they drafted the best one in the draft. Frankly, I'm not deluded into thinking there's any way he can hold off Stewart, barring injury of course. The issue with him is not his size (although it doesn't fit what Fox wants) or his running ability - I believe it's simply that his pass-blocking is not adequate. If he doesn't improve that then he won't be the first back who couldn't make it as a starter because of it.

p.s.--I don't own him either and I'm not a Panther fan either

 

[gianmarco]

Bump for some discussion on this again.

Who's set for a bigger 2008 now? Turner or DeAngelo?

Who's set for bigger production beyond 2008? Turner or DeAngelo? And why?

 

[Alias]

Bump for some discussion on this again.Who's set for a bigger 2008 now? Turner or DeAngelo?Who's set for bigger production beyond 2008? Turner or DeAngelo? And why?

Turner is setup better for 2008 only due to lack of competition. Depending on how well Atlanta rebuilds he should also have more upside in the future.

 

[bucsbaby]

Turner has the better opportunity, but after watching Sproles last night, Turner could be a product of the SD system

 

[gianmarco]

People starting to feel differently? Looks like both are starting to prove their worth.....

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

If anything I feel better about starting Williams these days. Neither one is unbenchable for a bad match-up.

 

[Biabreakable]

People starting to feel differently? Looks like both are starting to prove their worth.....

I am really suprised how well Ryan and the offense have been. I thought Ryan would be green and make a lot more mistakes, be less effective than he has been. I also thought the Oline was worse than it is.Both of them a very talented RB. I still like Williams slightly more than Turner but Turner's situation is better than I expected.

 

[treat88]

I still struggle to believe in Williams, but he's looked dang good lately.

For this season and the future, I see Stewart as a larger threat to Williams touches than Norwood to Turner's regardless....

They both look like players.

 

[gianmarco]

Bump by request.

 

[Truman]

Obviously the argument is on a different level now, but I still think the jump between Turner and Williams is the same.

 

[MAC_32]

Am I the only one that thinks both are over valued?

These guys are routinely taken in or near the top 5 in most drafts, there are several players I'd rather have than them that routinely go later in the draft. Players like Westbrook, LT, Ronnie Brown, Gore, Portis, and Jacobs.

I think Turner benefited heavily from a soft schedule last year and is going to find it much more difficult this year to put up close to the same numbers, him being a non factor in the passing game plays a heavy role.

I like DeAng and don't think J Stew is much of a threat to his production, but expecting anything close to that TD production again would be unreasonable. Sure, anything's possible, but I think expecting any more than 10 can be penciled into wishful thinking.

Both guys are surely capable of repeating last year and finishing in the top 5 but I just think there are better bets to be made. I'm not overly concerned with the Turner vs. DeAng debate because I don't think either are as valuable as the consensus believe.

 

[baconisgood]

These guys are routinely taken in or near the top 5 in most drafts, there are several players I'd rather have than them that routinely go later in the draft. Players like Westbrook, LT, Ronnie Brown, Gore, Portis, and Jacobs.

Westbrook Portis and LT have injury/mileage concerns those two don't. jacobs is expected to split enough carries away from him that breaking into the top 5 in RBs is going to be virtually impossible. He had 15 TDs last year and wasn't top 10. RB is yet to finish a season in the top 10. I can see an argument for Gore, but thats it really.

 

[MAC_32]

These guys are routinely taken in or near the top 5 in most drafts, there are several players I'd rather have than them that routinely go later in the draft. Players like Westbrook, LT, Ronnie Brown, Gore, Portis, and Jacobs.

Westbrook Portis and LT have injury/mileage concerns those two don't. jacobs is expected to split enough carries away from him that breaking into the top 5 in RBs is going to be virtually impossible. He had 15 TDs last year and wasn't top 10. RB is yet to finish a season in the top 10. I can see an argument for Gore, but thats it really.

Jacobs is a stud when healthy, I get that his end game numbers may not match either Turner or DeAng but that doesn't take into account the weeks you don't start Jacobs because he's hurt. I'd rather have 12 weeks of Jacobs and 4 weeks of a revolving door like that of Hillis, Green Ellis, Mewelde Moore last year than either Turner or DeAng.As much as many try to argue otherwise Portis is not old, I'm more concerned about Colt Brennan potentially being his QB than his age.It's all about risk/reward when it comes to Westbrook/LT vs. Turner/DeAng. I think the potential rewards LT and Westbrook come with outweigh Turner and DeAng, enough so to make their age risk justifiable.

 

[baconisgood]

Jacobs is a stud when healthy, I get that his end game numbers may not match either Turner or DeAng but that doesn't take into account the weeks you don't start Jacobs because he's hurt. I'd rather have 12 weeks of Jacobs and 4 weeks of a revolving door like that of Hillis, Green Ellis, Mewelde Moore last year than either Turner or DeAng.

Even pro rating Jacobs' production to 16 full games last year he is still just outside the top 5. There is not much chance- unless you get really lucky with your back RB prdocution, that Jacobs +2-4 games of your 3rd stringer will = top 5 production. Hes a very good back and valuable but he will (in a fantasy sense) be always behind a guy with talent + a solid offense + over 300 touches a year like turner IMO. Thats just the way fantasy scoring goes.

It's all about risk/reward when it comes to Westbrook/LT vs. Turner/DeAng. I think the potential rewards LT and Westbrook come with outweigh Turner and DeAng, enough so to make their age risk justifiable.

If you feel that way its fine, but I believe both Deagelo and Turner showed that they are capable of having incredible seasons which are at least as good as what LT or Westbrook can be expected to do at this point in their careers with less injury risk = a higher pick to me. Its hard to say it because there is a good chance these guys can squeeze out one or two more top level production seasons- but the risk of them missing more time makes their average season not look like top 5 pick stuff. I think this could be one year where picking 8-12 could be a huge boon as one of those guys could easily fall to you and be an easy choice there, but you could also struggle wondering if you should start of bench LDT like last year

 

[MAC_32]

Jacobs is a stud when healthy, I get that his end game numbers may not match either Turner or DeAng but that doesn't take into account the weeks you don't start Jacobs because he's hurt. I'd rather have 12 weeks of Jacobs and 4 weeks of a revolving door like that of Hillis, Green Ellis, Mewelde Moore last year than either Turner or DeAng.

Even pro rating Jacobs' production to 16 full games last year he is still just outside the top 5. There is not much chance- unless you get really lucky with your back RB prdocution, that Jacobs +2-4 games of your 3rd stringer will = top 5 production. Hes a very good back and valuable but he will (in a fantasy sense) be always behind a guy with talent + a solid offense + over 300 touches a year like turner IMO. Thats just the way fantasy scoring goes.

I see less bad weeks from Jacobs than Turner. Turner bowled over inferior competition but struggled against tougher teams, Jacobs produces regardless of opponent, I'd rather have that guy.DeAng is a bit trickier, I think he'll be consistent but with regressed TD numbers may not match up H2H vs. Jacobs when all's said and done. If he were more involved in the passing game I'd give the nod to DeAng, but being primarily used as a ball carrier only I think expecting more TD's from Jacobs is a good bet and the yards could go either way. I'll give a slight edge to DeAng, but could see it go either way. That's why I'll take Jacobs.

 

[JPeso]

These guys are routinely taken in or near the top 5 in most drafts, there are several players I'd rather have than them that routinely go later in the draft. Players like Westbrook, LT, Ronnie Brown, Gore, Portis, and Jacobs.

Give me DeAngelo over all these guys in any format.