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Dear Joe (1 Viewer)

Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
Your recent thoughts on Quinn/Crennel:

8/20 update

Cleveland Browns QB Brady Quinn is still third on the depth chart after his impressive performance against the Detroit Lions. Quinn will play after QB Charlie Frye and QB Derek Anderson for Saturday's game against the Denver Broncos. "We're going to keep working with him and bringing him along," HC Romeo Crennel said. "He showed enough poise and execution in the game to feel good about, but he still needs work. He still has work to do and we're not going to rush him in just because he looked good at the end of a game."

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I understand keeping the rookie holdout down and all but let's see if Romeo Crennel can keep from screwing this up. Anything less than Quinn starting this week's game to see how he fares against the #1 guys will be inexcusable.
8/24 update
Browns QB Brady Quinn seemed to take a few more snaps with the first team than QB Derek Anderson did, as the Browns closed camp with a half-speed workout in preparation for Saturday's game in Denver. HC Romeo Crennel said the No. 1 offense would be on the field for at least a half. He said game situations will dictate how much Quinn plays.

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I still am struggling with Romeo Crennel's need to see further proof that Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson are painfully mediocre. Quinn lighting up the 5th string defense last week may well have been a mirage. But we'd like to know by seeing how he looks with the first team. I don't have a good feeling at all that Crennel can keep from messing this up.
Joe,I understand that part of your job is offering opinions, and I enjoy reading them for the most part. But I think it's unfair to keep questioning/criticizing Crennel on this. I mean this more respectfully than it's probably going to sound, but do you know more about Brady Quinn and Cleveland's QB situation than Romeo Crennel? The man played an integral part in winning three Super Bowls, and he's been coaching for 26 years. OC Rob Chudzinski has been coaching for 13 years, the last two of which have been with the high-powered San Diego offense. Quarterbacks coach Rip Scherer has 33 years of coaching experience at the collegiate and NFL level.

These men are around Quinn and the other QBs all day, every day. If they don't feel that Quinn is ready to start - for whatever reason - I give them the benefit of the doubt. Why won't you? Hell, even though I was on record H-A-T-I-N-G the hirings of Art Shell and Tom Walsh last season, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. They evidently were qualified enough to get hired to run the Raiders. Meanwhile, I'm a slug who gets up and goes to work in the real world every day.

Do I think Crennel is the best coach to ever roam the sidelines? Hardly. It's likely that he's a far better defensive coordinator than he is a head coach. But he's there every day in camp. We're not. The bottom line is... if Quinn was ready to start, he'd be starting.

Now don't give me a timeout. My draft is in three days. :shrug:

 
Hell, even though I was on record H-A-T-I-N-G the hirings of Art Shell and Tom Walsh last season, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. They evidently were qualified enough to get hired to run the Raiders. Meanwhile, I'm a slug who gets up and goes to work in the real world every day.
In retrospect, though, you shouldn't have given them the benefit of the doubt. Bringing on Walsh was a terrible decision.People in every field make bad decisions, even the people at the top of their practice. NFL coaches make a ton of terrible decisions every year. So do NFL referees. Does Joe know more about football than Romeo Crennell? Of course not. But I don't see any problem with Joe saying the Browns are holding Quinn back. Personally, I think Quinn would benefit from redshirting a year, so I don't have a problem with it. But if Joe thinks Quinn is the best Browns QB, he's right to say he thinks Crennell is messing things up.

Remember when Marty Mornhinweg left training camp to ride his motorcycle? Would you have argued that Joe was wrong for saying Mornhinweg was messing things up in Detroit?

 
i agree. this does seem a bit overboard.

letting the rookie start the third preseason game when he was late to camp seem like a very rare occurance.

the team has stated all along that they want to bring him along slowly.

although, i will add that JB is entitled to his opinion, obviously, and Frye and Anderson do look terrible.

 
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Except that the other two starting quarterbacks were/are haaaarrrrible. Really bad. So, I think Joe's point is that there's not much to lose in letting Quinn get in there with the 1st team and I agree with this. The thread on here about Quinn was waaay sarcastic (and probably rightfully so) about his success in that game against scrubs. Let's just see how he does with 1st team vs. 1st team. I mean, the only reason NOT to do this would be because you think another game will give either Frye or Anderson the opportunity to get more in sync or something.

 
Hell, even though I was on record H-A-T-I-N-G the hirings of Art Shell and Tom Walsh last season, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. They evidently were qualified enough to get hired to run the Raiders. Meanwhile, I'm a slug who gets up and goes to work in the real world every day.
In retrospect, though, you shouldn't have given them the benefit of the doubt. Bringing on Walsh was a terrible decision.People in every field make bad decisions, even the people at the top of their practice. NFL coaches make a ton of terrible decisions every year. So do NFL referees. Does Joe know more about football than Romeo Crennell? Of course not. But I don't see any problem with Joe saying the Browns are holding Quinn back. Personally, I think Quinn would benefit from redshirting a year, so I don't have a problem with it. But if Joe thinks Quinn is the best Browns QB, he's right to say he thinks Crennell is messing things up.

Remember when Marty Mornhinweg left training camp to ride his motorcycle? Would you have argued that Joe was wrong for saying Mornhinweg was messing things up in Detroit?
:lmao: The Browns spent a lot of money and a high draft pick on their franchise QB. He looked damn good in the limited pre-season game action he had. The other Brown QB's have been god awful, and I would think as a Browns fan you would want to see this kid on the field more no? :goodposting:

 
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The Browns spent a lot of money and a high draft pick on their franchise QB. He looked damn good in the limited pre-season game action he had. The other Brown QB's have been god awful, and I would think as a Browns fan you would want to see this kid on the field more no?
For the record, I don't disagree with that. Rather, I thought the way Joe phrased his view was a bit harsh.
I understand keeping the rookie holdout down and all but let's see if Romeo Crennel can keep from screwing this up. Anything less than Quinn starting this week's game to see how he fares against the #1 guys will be inexcusable.
Screwing what up? Did Philip Rivers (and countless others) get "screwed up" because he was a backup his rookie season?And "inexcusable" is a bit strong, also. Should Crennel be fired if he doesn't start Quinn this preseason? You're better than that, Joe.

 
No Belichick disciple should start a kid in game one at the most prominent position in the NFL after he held out. Kid needs some humility.

 
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Quote from Kurt Warner last year on Leinart's hold out.

"I think everybody knows that the more days you miss, the more games you miss, the farther and farther you fall behind and the harder it is to catch up," Warner said.

What Kurt failed to understand is how easy it is to get passed up when your team goes 0-fer and the future is on the bench. Leinart started in Wk 5 in ARI last year. Quinn will be starting QB in CLE very soon.

 
Quote from Kurt Warner last year on Leinart's hold out.

"I think everybody knows that the more days you miss, the more games you miss, the farther and farther you fall behind and the harder it is to catch up," Warner said.

What Kurt failed to understand is how easy it is to get passed up when your team goes 0-fer and the future is on the bench. Leinart started in Wk 5 in ARI last year. Quinn will be starting QB in CLE very soon.
Yup. But not Game 1.
 
Quote from Kurt Warner last year on Leinart's hold out.

"I think everybody knows that the more days you miss, the more games you miss, the farther and farther you fall behind and the harder it is to catch up," Warner said.

What Kurt failed to understand is how easy it is to get passed up when your team goes 0-fer and the future is on the bench. Leinart started in Wk 5 in ARI last year. Quinn will be starting QB in CLE very soon.
Yup. But not Game 1.
Exactly, wait until you lose enough games, declare it a rebuilding year and throw the rookie in. Takes the pressure off him.
 
Does Joe know more about football than Romeo Crennell? Of course not. But I don't see any problem with Joe saying the Browns are holding Quinn back. Personally, I think Quinn would benefit from redshirting a year, so I don't have a problem with it. But if Joe thinks Quinn is the best Browns QB, he's right to say he thinks Crennell is messing things up.
Again, just for the record, I don't care if Quinn starts tonight, or the opening week, or never starts a single game in his career.I acknowledged that Joe's job is giving his opinions. If I didn't enjoy reading them, I would take myself off the mailing list. The point of my post was to ascertain the genesis of Joe's puzzling indignation over Quinn not being gift-wrapped a start this week. Is it Quinn's birthright to start for the Browns?

I'll shut up now.

 
Hell, even though I was on record H-A-T-I-N-G the hirings of Art Shell and Tom Walsh last season, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. They evidently were qualified enough to get hired to run the Raiders. Meanwhile, I'm a slug who gets up and goes to work in the real world every day.
In retrospect, though, you shouldn't have given them the benefit of the doubt. Bringing on Walsh was a terrible decision.People in every field make bad decisions, even the people at the top of their practice. NFL coaches make a ton of terrible decisions every year. So do NFL referees. Does Joe know more about football than Romeo Crennell? Of course not. But I don't see any problem with Joe saying the Browns are holding Quinn back. Personally, I think Quinn would benefit from redshirting a year, so I don't have a problem with it. But if Joe thinks Quinn is the best Browns QB, he's right to say he thinks Crennell is messing things up.

Remember when Marty Mornhinweg left training camp to ride his motorcycle? Would you have argued that Joe was wrong for saying Mornhinweg was messing things up in Detroit?
:thumbdown: You seem to have really taken this personally.
 
No problem. I'll always offer up opinions though. That's really all the "our view" is. It's what makes it different from the news blogger.

Offering up opinions like this is something we'll always do. It's the backbone of the website. And of the Shark Pool. I'm pretty nuetral on the Browns so I think I'm being objective. It just seems glaringly obvious to me that Frye and Anderson are nowhere near the answer. We know that already. The one thing we don't know is whether Quinn might be. He was awesome against the scrubs in prevent. To really tell much about him, we need to see him with the #1's. But that won't happen now becuase Crennel wants to see Frye and Anderson more. Just seems ridiculous to me. I'm not saying make him the week 1 starter. I'm saying see if he can show he should be the week 1 starter. :sadbanana:

J

 
As a Brown's homer, I think it's the right call. The Browns have already decided not to play Quinn till week 6 at the earliest after he held out. They will probably give him more of a chance against the first stringers next week, but even if he looks like Johnny Unitas, they would be stupid to start him week 1. He's behind on learning a very complicated offense. The Browns aren't expected to be a play-off team this year and they face some very good defenses early. They have to do their best to prepare Frye to start early and also prepare Quinn to eventually take over. Anderson is getting enough snaps to see if he's the back-up right now or on another team. They know what they have in Dorsey.

A lot of the Brown's fans agree with Joe, but most of the Brown's die hards that know football agree with the current plan. We all really want to see Quinn against the 1st teamers, but understand why that may not be best for the team.

Not saying Joe is wrong, but we're willing to wait till we play Miami to see if he's right.

 
As a Brown's homer, I think it's the right call. The Browns have already decided not to play Quinn till week 6 at the earliest after he held out. They will probably give him more of a chance against the first stringers next week, but even if he looks like Johnny Unitas, they would be stupid to start him week 1. He's behind on learning a very complicated offense. The Browns aren't expected to be a play-off team this year and they face some very good defenses early. They have to do their best to prepare Frye to start early and also prepare Quinn to eventually take over. Anderson is getting enough snaps to see if he's the back-up right now or on another team. They know what they have in Dorsey.A lot of the Brown's fans agree with Joe, but most of the Brown's die hards that know football agree with the current plan. We all really want to see Quinn against the 1st teamers, but understand why that may not be best for the team.Not saying Joe is wrong, but we're willing to wait till we play Miami to see if he's right.
I hear you Chris. And to be clear, I'm not saying Quinn should be the week 1 starter. I just wanted to see what he could do this week against the #1's.I think we see him about week 4 or so of the regular season. We'll see soon enough I guess.J
 
For comparison,

Leinart started the first series of the 2nd Quarter last year after Warner in week 3 of the preseason.

Young started the first series of the 3rd Quarter after Volek.

Both Volek and Warner are better than Frye and Anderson.

We'll see.

J

 
For comparison,Leinart started the first series of the 2nd Quarter last year after Warner in week 3 of the preseason.Young started the first series of the 3rd Quarter after Volek.Both Volek and Warner are better than Frye and Anderson.
Hi Joe,I'm thinking it's more about Quinn's preparedness and maturity level as opposed to the quality of talent ahead of him on the depth chart.What if he gets thrown in against the 1's, and completely craps the bed? Did you see his reaction when he waited... and waited... and waited on draft day? He pouted like a 4 year-old. I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that a bad outing against a good defense could set his development back rather than aid it.
 
Frye and Anderson are actually both looking pretty good this game Joe. I agree with you on the fact that they aren't the answer, but they are making it tough for Quinn to play early next week.

 
he flipped a frikkin coin last week

it embarrased the browns and even the coaching profession

most coaches start giving signs when they have lost it ...

Mora last year commenting on how he'd love to have the Wash. job, Dennis Green and his infamous "crown their ###" comments

and now Crennell flippin a frikkin coin

he is done ... over/under the monday after the regular season is finished

 
he flipped a frikkin coin last weekit embarrased the browns and even the coaching profession most coaches start giving signs when they have lost it ...Mora last year commenting on how he'd love to have the Wash. job, Dennis Green and his infamous "crown their ###" commentsand now Crennell flippin a frikkin coin he is done ... over/under the monday after the regular season is finished
It's pre-season week 1 and he wants both guys to fight for their job. Don't make too much out of the coin flip thing.
 
he flipped a frikkin coin last week

it embarrased the browns and even the coaching profession

most coaches start giving signs when they have lost it ...

Mora last year commenting on how he'd love to have the Wash. job, Dennis Green and his infamous "crown their ###" comments

and now Crennell flippin a frikkin coin

he is done ... over/under the monday after the regular season is finished
It's pre-season week 1 and he wants both guys to fight for their job. Don't make too much out of the coin flip thing.
I know chris, but it's just the perception of the thing. It just looks like the Wayne Fontes way in over his head deer in the headlights thing. It would have been tons better to say, "both guys are even, we're starting this guy in week 1 and that guy in week 2. A coin flip just makes you look clueless.I mean at least he could have used our Magic 8 Ball Head http://footballguys.com/8head.htm :shrug:

J

 
Quinn is in against the #1 Denver defense.
Thanks Chris. Denver D in that long? What about the Browns Offense?
Browns 2nd string o-line in but everybody else are starters
How'd the long incompletion to Jurevicius look?J
It was a play that was challengeable. JJ may not have gotten his right toe in, but it was close enough to throw a flag. I still wasn't sure after the replay. I was a little suprised to see JJ run that type of route. It was pretty much a go route on the sideline. Quinn put the ball in the right spot.
 
RAIDERNATION said:
What if he gets thrown in against the 1's, and completely craps the bed? Did you see his reaction when he waited... and waited... and waited on draft day? He pouted like a 4 year-old.
:lmao: Dude, WTF? I guess turning to your girlfriend and shrugging now qualifies as pouting? I thought Brady handled the insanity that is the NFL draft with a lot of class.
 
RAIDERNATION said:
What if he gets thrown in against the 1's, and completely craps the bed? Did you see his reaction when he waited... and waited... and waited on draft day? He pouted like a 4 year-old.
:lmao: Dude, WTF? I guess turning to your girlfriend and shrugging now qualifies as pouting? I thought Brady handled the insanity that is the NFL draft with a lot of class.
But seriously?The commish escorted him back to his private area after seeing Quinn on the verge of tears.

 
RAIDERNATION said:
What if he gets thrown in against the 1's, and completely craps the bed? Did you see his reaction when he waited... and waited... and waited on draft day? He pouted like a 4 year-old.
:lmao: Dude, WTF? I guess turning to your girlfriend and shrugging now qualifies as pouting? I thought Brady handled the insanity that is the NFL draft with a lot of class.
But seriously?The commish escorted him back to his private area after seeing Quinn on the verge of tears.
I didn't see it that way at all. Goodell said he was tired of seeing Quinn's face on TV when he passed him in the hall as Quinn was heading to the bathroom. It was obviously awkward for him as the cleaning crew was picking up the trash in the green room.Goodell offered to let him get off camera. Seemed smart to me. :shrug:

J

 
I think Charlie Frye should be the starter without one doubt. Frye performed well tonight (all qb's did) but I think he outdid Anderson w/ better passes and that 13 yard scamper... Quinn looked pretty good but he wasn't playing against the first strings (or atleast not for long).

I've always liked Charlie Frye btw, I think he's got a great arm and more mobility than Anderson and Quinn but at times you have to question his decisions.

 
I think Charlie Frye should be the starter without one doubt. Frye performed well tonight (all qb's did) but I think he outdid Anderson w/ better passes and that 13 yard scamper... Quinn looked pretty good but he wasn't playing against the first strings (or atleast not for long).I've always liked Charlie Frye btw, I think he's got a great arm and more mobility than Anderson and Quinn but at times you have to question his decisions.
Brady Quinn will be the starting QB for CLE when October comes around.
 
From what some of you said, Quinn should not be the #1 starter because he held out...so does that mean Larry Johnson should not start week 1 for the Chiefs? Asante Samuel (if back this week) should not start for the Patriots?

I think coaches are going to put in the best players that give them the opportunity to win, plain and simple.

:rolleyes:

 
Joe Bryant said:
No problem. I'll always offer up opinions though. That's really all the "our view" is. It's what makes it different from the news blogger.Offering up opinions like this is something we'll always do. It's the backbone of the website. And of the Shark Pool. I'm pretty nuetral on the Browns so I think I'm being objective. It just seems glaringly obvious to me that Frye and Anderson are nowhere near the answer. We know that already. The one thing we don't know is whether Quinn might be. He was awesome against the scrubs in prevent. To really tell much about him, we need to see him with the #1's. But that won't happen now becuase Crennel wants to see Frye and Anderson more. Just seems ridiculous to me. I'm not saying make him the week 1 starter. I'm saying see if he can show he should be the week 1 starter. :rolleyes:J
I agree Quinn deserves to get a pre-season start BUT I don't necessarily find it "ridiculous" Romeo is trying to give Frye/Anderson additional opportunity. I and MANY others thought Brees was done... thank god he was givin some additional opportunity , they spent a 1st on Rivers that year..... Identical situation. IF you CAN its almost always better to let a rookie QB sit the 1st year.
 
From what some of you said, Quinn should not be the #1 starter because he held out...so does that mean Larry Johnson should not start week 1 for the Chiefs? Asante Samuel (if back this week) should not start for the Patriots?I think coaches are going to put in the best players that give them the opportunity to win, plain and simple. :rolleyes:
There's a big difference between a rookie QB and veteran players holding out.
 
From what some of you said, Quinn should not be the #1 starter because he held out...so does that mean Larry Johnson should not start week 1 for the Chiefs? Asante Samuel (if back this week) should not start for the Patriots?I think coaches are going to put in the best players that give them the opportunity to win, plain and simple. :rolleyes:
Asante Samuel and Larry Johnson aren't rookies. They've earned the respect of players on their teams and in the league already. They know how to do their jobs at the NFL level, indeed know how to do them at the highest level possible. Each of them is at the top of his position in the NFL, capable of changing the outcome of a game by a single touch of the football. And each of them was forced to learn humility WAY before now. Samuel plays for Belichick, who is notoriously unforgiving toward rookie egos. And Larry Johnson sat on the bench until he could learn how to support his teammates without pouting about carries and an opportunity to shine.They've both gotten to the point that Quinn still needs to get to. They've earned the right to be starters.
 
Joe Bryant said:
No problem. I'll always offer up opinions though. That's really all the "our view" is. It's what makes it different from the news blogger.Offering up opinions like this is something we'll always do. It's the backbone of the website. And of the Shark Pool. I'm pretty nuetral on the Browns so I think I'm being objective. It just seems glaringly obvious to me that Frye and Anderson are nowhere near the answer. We know that already. The one thing we don't know is whether Quinn might be. He was awesome against the scrubs in prevent. To really tell much about him, we need to see him with the #1's. But that won't happen now becuase Crennel wants to see Frye and Anderson more. Just seems ridiculous to me. I'm not saying make him the week 1 starter. I'm saying see if he can show he should be the week 1 starter. :banned:J
AFTER THE FACTBrowns only fed Quinn the same handful of plays over and over that first game
 
Joe Bryant said:
No problem. I'll always offer up opinions though. That's really all the "our view" is. It's what makes it different from the news blogger.Offering up opinions like this is something we'll always do. It's the backbone of the website. And of the Shark Pool. I'm pretty nuetral on the Browns so I think I'm being objective. It just seems glaringly obvious to me that Frye and Anderson are nowhere near the answer. We know that already. The one thing we don't know is whether Quinn might be. He was awesome against the scrubs in prevent. To really tell much about him, we need to see him with the #1's. But that won't happen now becuase Crennel wants to see Frye and Anderson more. Just seems ridiculous to me. I'm not saying make him the week 1 starter. I'm saying see if he can show he should be the week 1 starter. :thumbup:J
AFTER THE FACTBrowns only fed Quinn the same handful of plays over and over that first game
:rolleyes: OK.J
 

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