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Dear Raider fans... (1 Viewer)

BlueOnion

Footballguy
I am really excited for you guys and what you will see with Randy Moss. The guy is an amazing talent and there will be times your jaw will hit the floor, and then you will just snicker to yourself as other teams try to cover him. Couple of things to look for:1) Randy Moss blowing by a safety who was playing 20 to 30 yards off the ball. It kills me every time I see a safety play 20 yards of the LOS (line of scrimmage) only to see the same safety 3, 4 or 5 steps behind Randy Moss at 70 yards off the LOS downfield.2) Randy Moss going in motion and seeing 3/4 of the defensive backfield shift sides of the field as well. It is amazing how much defenses adjust solely for him and the other opportunities he opens up.3) The "lawn chair move". Very controversial but still very effective. This is when Randy Moss lines up wide and 'sits in a lawn chair' at the snap of the ball. Sure Randy is not going to make a play but it kills me when 2 or 3 defensive backs still stay with in 5 yards of him in case he decides to get out of the lawn chair.

 
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DoubleG

Footballguy
I would like to add to Blue Onions list, though:4) The "my elbows are stuck to my sides" move (usually occurring as Moss goes over the middle against a defense that actually hits). I have a 2 month old son who has been seen to extend his arms further than Moss has on occasion.5) The "I realize I'm getting paid millions, but I have something important to do in the locker room" move. This is usually accompanied by a score not in favor of his team.I could also have include the "Oh, Charles Tillman, would you like this touchdown instead?" move or the "if you don't pass to me I'll take a few quarters off" manuever, but I felt that the 2 above occur more often ;)Signed,A Bears Fan :thumbup:

 
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Jim Otto

Footballguy
I am really excited for you guys and what you will see with Randy Moss. The guy is an amazing talent and there will be times your jaw will hit the floor, and then you will just snicker to yourself as other teams try to cover him. Couple of things to look for:

1) Randy Moss blowing by a safety who was playing 20 to 30 yards off the ball. It kills me every time I see a safety play 20 yards of the LOS (line of scrimmage) only to see the same safety 3, 4 or 5 steps behind Randy Moss at 70 yards off the LOS downfield.

2) Randy Moss going in motion and seeing 3/4 of the defensive backfield shift sides of the field as well. It is amazing how much defenses adjust solely for him and the other opportunities he opens up.

3) The "lawn chair move". Very controversial but still very effective. This is when Randy Moss lines up wide and 'sits in a lawn chair' at the snap of the ball. Sure Randy is not going to make a play but it kills me when 2 or 3 defensive backs still stay with in 5 yards of him in case he decides to get out of the lawn chair.
Jealous much?
 

joffer

Footballguy
I am really excited for you guys and what you will see with Randy Moss.  The guy is an amazing talent and there will be times your jaw will hit the floor, and then you will just snicker to yourself as other teams try to cover him.  Couple of things to look for:

1) Randy Moss blowing by a safety who was playing 20 to 30 yards off the ball.  It kills me every time I see a safety play 20 yards of the LOS (line of scrimmage) only to see the same safety 3, 4 or 5 steps behind Randy Moss at 70 yards off the LOS downfield.

2) Randy Moss going in motion and seeing 3/4 of the defensive backfield shift sides of the field as well.  It is amazing how much defenses adjust solely for him and the other opportunities he opens up.

3) The "lawn chair move".  Very controversial but still very effective.  This is when Randy Moss lines up wide and 'sits in a lawn chair' at the snap of the ball.  Sure Randy is not going to make a play but it kills me when 2 or 3 defensive backs still stay with in 5 yards of him in case he decides to get out of the lawn chair.
Jealous much?
that WHOOOOOOOSHHHHHH sound that flew right by your head was his point.
 

P Boy

Footballguy
4) The "my elbows are stuck to my sides" move (usually occurring as Moss goes over the middle against a defense that actually hits).  I have a 2 month old son who has been seen to extend his arms further than Moss has on occasion.
This condition is known in football as "Alligator arms". The WRs arms stretch is directly proportional to the distance between the WR and any nearby DB.In a self-styled & impressive alternative to the classic Alligator arms, Moss will pull the "Horse jump" move, where he pulls up to a dead stop a route while the ball is in the air if he sees DBs converging on the same spot as where he & the ball are headed - often leading to INTs which he then promptly points at tyhe QB and blames him loudly on the sideline. This move looks very much like a jumping horse that refuses a jump, stopping on a dime in front of the jump & sending the rider sailing over the crossbars.

 
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BlueOnion

Footballguy
A lot of knee-jerk reactions going on here. As a Vikings fan I enjoyed watching Moss play for the Vikings, honwever his time in Minnesota had come and gone. No reason for me to start bashing the kid, I am genuinely excited for the Raider fans. :shrug:

 

jurb26

Footballguy
A lot of knee-jerk reactions going on here. As a Vikings fan I enjoyed watching Moss play for the Vikings, honwever his time in Minnesota had come and gone. No reason for me to start bashing the kid, I am genuinely excited for the Raider fans. :shrug:
No, there isn't any reason for you to bash him BlueOnion, several posters around here have already cornered that market. ;)
 

packersfan

Footballguy
Moss is an unbelievable talent and there's no question in my mind he's going to have a big season with the Raiders. However, what I'm looking forward to most is the first time he goes off on Collins on the sidelines because you know it's going to happen. That should be quality theater. :yes:

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
A lot of knee-jerk reactions going on here.  As a Vikings fan I enjoyed watching Moss play for the Vikings, honwever his time in Minnesota had come and gone.  No reason for me to start bashing the kid, I am genuinely excited for the Raider fans.  :shrug:
No, there isn't any reason for you to bash him BlueOnion, several posters around here have already cornered that market. ;)
Thanks jurb. Kind of like walking into a bar only to find yourself in the middle of a bar fight?
 

14464

Footballguy
All I know is that about the only thing right with MIN over the years was Randy Moss. Sort of reminds me of all the silly backlash/blame AI with 76er fans in the NBA. About the ONLY guy you could count on in MIN was Randy. It will get interesting this year to see MIN fall to the bottom of the league and then see who their fans will blame next. Perhaps the real culprit? :unsure:

 
A lot of knee-jerk reactions going on here. As a Vikings fan I enjoyed watching Moss play for the Vikings, honwever his time in Minnesota had come and gone. No reason for me to start bashing the kid, I am genuinely excited for the Raider fans. :shrug:
This Raider fan genuinely appreciates your points and your enthusiasm.Moss brings all-world talent to a team that is traditionally dedicated to the deep strike. While Collins may not be a Montana or Elway, he can deliver the ball in a manner that suits Moss's "throw it up and I'll bring it down" style.

The impact of a credible every-down running threat in Jordan finally brings some multi-dimensionality to the offense, and will only help to maximize what Moss can do in the O.

There is no doubting DoubleG's list as well, but the Raiders are used to adapting larger-than-life personalities to the overall team. I am certain there will be times when the downside of Randy's personality affects the team, but when you are winning games and having fun, this downside is gretly mitigated.

I, for one, and psyched to see how the Raiders are going to utilize this awesome offensive firepower, and hope that it doesn't get squandered.

Now if we can only muster up some D, we might have a shot at the postseason, even within an incredibly competitive division.

 

Tackling Dummies

Footballguy
In a self-styled & impressive alternative to the classic Alligator arms, Moss will pull the "Horse jump" move, where he pulls up to a dead stop a route while the ball is in the air if he sees DBs converging on the same spot as where he & the ball are headed - often leading to INTs which he then promptly points at tyhe QB and blames him loudly on the sideline. This move looks very much like a jumping horse that refuses a jump, stopping on a dime in front of the jump & sending the rider sailing over the crossbars.
Classic.
 

John 14:6

Jesus is Lord!
I'm with you, Blue Onion. I'm actually upset at the Vikings for trading him but still can't help but root for the home team. Now I'm also rooting for the Raiders, too. Probably moreso now.

 

P Boy

Footballguy
While there is no denying Moss' incerdible talent & amazing ability on the field, similarly there is no denying his cowardice in a crowd coming across the middle, his loafing on plays when his number isn't called, and his willingness to publicly humiliate his QB on the sideline.OAK fans ought to be ready to take the bad with the good, just like Vikes' fans had to. Facts is facts.

 

John 14:6

Jesus is Lord!
While there is no denying Moss' incerdible talent & amazing ability on the field, similarly there is no denying his cowardice in a crowd coming across the middle, his loafing on plays when his number isn't called, and his willingness to publicly humiliate his QB on the sideline.

OAK fans ought to be ready to take the bad with the good, just like Vikes' fans had to. Facts is facts.
None of that kept the Vikings from being a top offensive unit when he was playing. I hear about how all this stuff was such a distraction to the team, but for some reason it only seemed to have affected the defense.
 

P Boy

Footballguy
None of that kept the Vikings from being a top offensive unit when he was playing. I hear about how all this stuff was such a distraction to the team, but for some reason it only seemed to have affected the defense.
So you think that Moss shutting his mouth, running all his routes hard, and fighting for balls across the middle wouldn't have made a difference in MIN moving up a notch on the food chain? Maybe winning a couple more division titles, getting to the NFC championship or maybe further?Great players make great plays & lift those around them. While there's no doubt the Vikes' D was questionable, doesn't Moss get some accountability? Imagine if Moss welded his talent to say Rod Smith's desire & work ethic.
 

jurb26

Footballguy
None of that kept the Vikings from being a top offensive unit when he was playing. I hear about how all this stuff was such a distraction to the team, but for some reason it only seemed to have affected the defense.
So you think that Moss shutting his mouth, running all his routes hard, and fighting for balls across the middle wouldn't have made a difference in MIN moving up a notch on the food chain? Maybe winning a couple more division titles, getting to the NFC championship or maybe further?Great players make great plays & lift those around them. While there's no doubt the Vikes' D was questionable, doesn't Moss get some accountability? Imagine if Moss welded his talent to say Rod Smith's desire & work ethic.
The guy is on the same pace as Jerry Rice in his career and has, for the most part, been the #1 WR in the NFL since the 1st time he steped on the field in 98. Yet amazingly people can still only look for the worst in every situation.
 

B-Deep

Footballguy
The guy is on the same pace as Jerry Rice in his career and has, for the most part, been the #1 WR in the NFL since the 1st time he steped on the field in 98. Yet amazingly people can still only look for the worst in every situation.
If the guy would just act a little bit more like a real football/reasonable adult player he'd be unstopable.He'll never pass rice's records, he lacks the discipline needed to continue to perform when his freakish talent starts to fade.

He should end his career as the best WR ever, he is that talented, but he won't.

His talent cannot be denied, but there is something fundamentally lacking from a player that will walk off the field and give up before the game ends.

 

John 14:6

Jesus is Lord!
So you think that Moss shutting his mouth, running all his routes hard, and fighting for balls across the middle wouldn't have made a difference in MIN moving up a notch on the food chain? Maybe winning a couple more division titles, getting to the NFC championship or maybe further?
Sure, but it also would have helped if Daunte turned the ball over less, if the RBs ran a bit harder, if the line blocked better, etc. etc. A whole bunch of things could have improved, but the GREATEST reason for any Viking shortcomings was not Randy Moss, not by a longshot. It was the defense and coaching. Moss was much MUCH more of a positive that a negative yet he becomes the fall guy.
 

jurb26

Footballguy
If the guy would just act a little bit more like a real football/reasonable adult player he'd be unstopable.
I don't think you and I are watching the same NFL or Randy Moss. THEY GUY IS UNSTOPABLE!
He'll never pass rice's records, he lacks the discipline needed to continue to perform when his freakish talent starts to fade.
You know this how exactly? Everthing I have heard about Moss' work ethic has been good. He is continually sited as a leader to young palyers both in Minn and now in Oak. the guy moves to the beach during the offseason to pull sleds in sand and run with parachuttes among other things.. yet he has poor work ethic. :rolleyes: Don't confuse a loud mouth and some poor personal choices for poor work ethic, they are seperate issues altogether.
He should end his career as the best WR ever, he is that talented, but he won't.
Again, I'd love to know how you can make such an absolute statement. For the record, him being the best ever is not just about stats IMO.
His talent cannot be denied, but there is something fundamentally lacking from a player that will walk off the field and give up before the game ends.
No arguement there.
 

John 14:6

Jesus is Lord!
If the guy would just act a little bit more like a real football/reasonable adult player he'd be unstopable.

He'll never pass rice's records, he lacks the discipline needed to continue to perform when his freakish talent starts to fade.

He should end his career as the best WR ever, he is that talented, but he won't.

His talent cannot be denied, but there is something fundamentally lacking from a player that will walk off the field and give up before the game ends.
If he keeps producing as well as he has been, I don't care if he's only going 50%. I would still take the player that goes half effort and gets over 1,000 yards and 10 TDs over a guy who busts his tail yet only gets 500 yards and 5 TDs. In fantasy and REAL football.
 

reg

Mod in training
You know this how exactly? Everthing I have heard about Moss' work ethic has been good. He is continually sited as a leader to young palyers both in Minn and now in Oak. the guy moves to the beach during the offseason to pull sleds in sand and run with parachuttes among other things.. yet he has poor work ethic. Don't confuse a loud mouth and some poor personal choices for poor work ethic, they are seperate issues altogether.
Not to get into the middle of your guys' arguments (and I am not going to take a side), but Randy did the sled pulling thing one year. Most other years he was not even close to a workout warrior. I read an article where he doesn't (or at least in the past) even stretch for games/practices, just goes through the motions.
 

B-Deep

Footballguy
If the guy would just act a little bit more like a real football/reasonable adult player he'd be unstopable.
I don't think you and I are watching the same NFL or Randy Moss. THEY GUY IS UNSTOPABLE!
He'll never pass rice's records, he lacks the discipline needed to continue to perform when his freakish talent starts to fade.
You know this how exactly? Everthing I have heard about Moss' work ethic has been good. He is continually sited as a leader to young palyers both in Minn and now in Oak. the guy moves to the beach during the offseason to pull sleds in sand and run with parachuttes among other things.. yet he has poor work ethic. :rolleyes: Don't confuse a loud mouth and some poor personal choices for poor work ethic, they are seperate issues altogether.
He should end his career as the best WR ever, he is that talented, but he won't.
Again, I'd love to know how you can make such an absolute statement. For the record, him being the best ever is not just about stats IMO.
His talent cannot be denied, but there is something fundamentally lacking from a player that will walk off the field and give up before the game ends.
No arguement there.
If you watch Rice at Moss age and watch Moss you will not be able to say with a straight face that Moss works as hard. Forget workouts, lets's talk running routes and taking one for the team and playing hard every play. At some point his physical abilities start to fade and desire and mental toughness have to make up the difference. Rice was not the most talented WR ever, but he wanted it more then most (this is not to say it was desire alone, dude had skills).You cannot look at Moss on the field and say he has that same fire. And yes, he is stopable, if he were not there'd be a ring on his finger. As great as his numbers are I believe if he had the same fire and determination that Rice had, they'd be even better.

I obviously cannot tell you for certain that Moss will not end his career as the best WR ever, but I just don't think he has what it takes. Of everything Moss does what irritates me the most is that as GREAT as he is, he could be better.

 
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P Boy

Footballguy
Sure, but it also would have helped if Daunte turned the ball over less,
I can positively state by first hand witness that Moss was directly responsible for some of Culpepper's INTs by cutting his route short or refusing to mix it up in traffic.Look, I would agree that Moss could be the greatest WR ever to grace any football field anywhere, anytime. The working word is "could". He just doesn't want it bad enough. That's really a damn shame.
 

John 14:6

Jesus is Lord!
I can positively state by first hand witness that Moss was directly responsible for some of Culpepper's INTs by cutting his route short or refusing to mix it up in traffic.
Fine. I still say Moss was far from the Vikings' greatest problem, it was the defense. And I still say Moss helped MUCH more than he hurt.
Look, I would agree that Moss could be the greatest WR ever to grace any football field anywhere, anytime.  The working word is "could".  He just doesn't want it bad enough.  That's really a damn shame.
I don't care if he never works out another day in his life as long as he puts up the numbers and has the effect he does on opposing Ds.
 
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jurb26

Footballguy
If the guy would just act a little bit more like a real football/reasonable adult player he'd be unstopable.
I don't think you and I are watching the same NFL or Randy Moss. THEY GUY IS UNSTOPABLE!
He'll never pass rice's records, he lacks the discipline needed to continue to perform when his freakish talent starts to fade.
You know this how exactly? Everthing I have heard about Moss' work ethic has been good. He is continually sited as a leader to young palyers both in Minn and now in Oak. the guy moves to the beach during the offseason to pull sleds in sand and run with parachuttes among other things.. yet he has poor work ethic. :rolleyes: Don't confuse a loud mouth and some poor personal choices for poor work ethic, they are seperate issues altogether.
He should end his career as the best WR ever, he is that talented, but he won't.
Again, I'd love to know how you can make such an absolute statement. For the record, him being the best ever is not just about stats IMO.
His talent cannot be denied, but there is something fundamentally lacking from a player that will walk off the field and give up before the game ends.
No arguement there.
If you watch Rice at Moss age and watch Moss you will not be able to say with a straight face that Moss works as hard. Forget workouts, lets's talk running routes and taking one for the team and playing hard every play. At some point his physical abilities start to fade and desire and mental toughness have to make up the difference. Rice was not the most talented WR ever, but he wanted it more then most (this is not to say it was desire alone, dude had skills).You cannot look at Moss on the field and say he has that same fire. And yes, he is stopable, if he were not there'd be a ring on his finger. As great as his numbers are I believe if he had the same fire and determination that Rice had, they'd be even better.

I obviously cannot tell you for certain that Moss will not end his career as the best WR ever, but I just don't think he has what it takes. Of everything Moss does what irritates me the most is that as GREAT as he is, he could be better.
Jerry's work ethic is LEGENDARY and to compare anyone to it is simply a poor basline IMO. Who else does match up? Walter, maybe? Thats it. When I look at Moss on the field I do see that fire, but all players show it in deferent ways. Thas what makes us human and individuals... no 2 are exactly alike. Based on your defintion of "unstopable," I don't think anyone lives up. What I find most ammusing about the Moss haters is that they are so quick to point out that he is not a "team" guy and the reason for this and that when it comes to the Vikes. Then those same people will turn around and point to Moss alone and blame him for the entire TEAMS problems. I love how you say if Moss was unstopable, he would have a ring... are we just ignoring that there are 21 other players (not including back-ups) and several coaches/GMs that also play a major roll on if the TEAM, not MOSS wins a ring?

 

jurb26

Footballguy
Sure, but it also would have helped if Daunte turned the ball over less,
I can positively state by first hand witness that Moss was directly responsible for some of Culpepper's INTs by cutting his route short or refusing to mix it up in traffic.
This very thing could be said of EVERY WR in the league with their respective QB.
 

jasvic

Footballguy
I think the problem most people have is his wasted potential. Yes, the things he has done and will do have been, and I'm sure will continue to be, amazing. He's a freak of nature. But what irritates me is that he could have, and still can do, even more!It's extremely rare for someone to have the physical abilities he has, and I think for many it irritates the heck out of us when that someone isn't thankful they have it and makes the most of it. If Moss put his mind to it, he could obliterate every receiving record there is, and literally be unstoppable...but I don't think he will, and he's not.Is he a great player and has he done great things, yes, I think no one will deny that. But could he do even more with what he has and is not taking advantage of that? I think so.As a fan I hate seeing great talent being wasted. I pay to see the best play their best, when I get less I feel cheated.

 

B-Deep

Footballguy
If the guy would just act a little bit more like a real football/reasonable adult player he'd be unstopable.
I don't think you and I are watching the same NFL or Randy Moss. THEY GUY IS UNSTOPABLE!
He'll never pass rice's records, he lacks the discipline needed to continue to perform when his freakish talent starts to fade.
You know this how exactly? Everthing I have heard about Moss' work ethic has been good. He is continually sited as a leader to young palyers both in Minn and now in Oak. the guy moves to the beach during the offseason to pull sleds in sand and run with parachuttes among other things.. yet he has poor work ethic. :rolleyes: Don't confuse a loud mouth and some poor personal choices for poor work ethic, they are seperate issues altogether.
He should end his career as the best WR ever, he is that talented, but he won't.
Again, I'd love to know how you can make such an absolute statement. For the record, him being the best ever is not just about stats IMO.
His talent cannot be denied, but there is something fundamentally lacking from a player that will walk off the field and give up before the game ends.
No arguement there.
If you watch Rice at Moss age and watch Moss you will not be able to say with a straight face that Moss works as hard. Forget workouts, lets's talk running routes and taking one for the team and playing hard every play. At some point his physical abilities start to fade and desire and mental toughness have to make up the difference. Rice was not the most talented WR ever, but he wanted it more then most (this is not to say it was desire alone, dude had skills).You cannot look at Moss on the field and say he has that same fire. And yes, he is stopable, if he were not there'd be a ring on his finger. As great as his numbers are I believe if he had the same fire and determination that Rice had, they'd be even better.

I obviously cannot tell you for certain that Moss will not end his career as the best WR ever, but I just don't think he has what it takes. Of everything Moss does what irritates me the most is that as GREAT as he is, he could be better.
Jerry's work ethic is LEGENDARY and to compare anyone to it is simply a poor basline IMO. Who else does match up? Walter, maybe? Thats it. When I look at Moss on the field I do see that fire, but all players show it in deferent ways. Thas what makes us human and individuals... no 2 are exactly alike. Based on your defintion of "unstopable," I don't think anyone lives up. What I find most ammusing about the Moss haters is that they are so quick to point out that he is not a "team" guy and the reason for this and that when it comes to the Vikes. Then those same people will turn around and point to Moss alone and blame him for the entire TEAMS problems. I love how you say if Moss was unstopable, he would have a ring... are we just ignoring that there are 21 other players (not including back-ups) and several coaches/GMs that also play a major roll on if the TEAM, not MOSS wins a ring?
I never blamed him for the teams problems, but he also doesn't do everything he can to help the team win. There's a reason the vikes got rid of him. He clearly can be stopped, to know this you need hear nothing more then Tice saying that they need to get the ball to Moss enough to keep him interested in the game. He can stop himself, and he does.Again, I am not talking about Rice's off season workouts (although those are another reason why i doubt Moss will get his numbers, I would say that about any WR) I am talking about on the field. MAny, if not most GREAT players have that level of fire on the field. Want a list? Farve, Emmitt, Montana, Elway, Barry Sanders, Faulk, Curtis Martin, Brady...all work as hard as Rice on the field. Does the list sound elite? That's the point, you want to end your career as an all time elite, you'd better measure yourself in all aspects by what they did.

If you think he works as hard on the field as Marvin Harrison or Hines Ward or Rod Smith then fine, you must thik he has reached his maximum. I do not think he does, I think it is obvious that he takes too many plays off. If you disagree so be it. I have not once said Moss is not the best WR in the game because he is and I firmly believe he may be the most talented WR ever. I just think he could be better, and when all is said and done he'll be well short of Rice, and it will be his own fault.

 

B-Deep

Footballguy
I think the problem most people have is his wasted potential. Yes, the things he has done and will do have been, and I'm sure will continue to be, amazing. He's a freak of nature. But what irritates me is that he could have, and still can do, even more!

It's extremely rare for someone to have the physical abilities he has, and I think for many it irritates the heck out of us when that someone isn't thankful they have it and makes the most of it. If Moss put his mind to it, he could obliterate every receiving record there is, and literally be unstoppable...but I don't think he will, and he's not.

Is he a great player and has he done great things, yes, I think no one will deny that. But could he do even more with what he has and is not taking advantage of that? I think so.

As a fan I hate seeing great talent being wasted. I pay to see the best play their best, when I get less I feel cheated.
I could not agree more.
 

jurb26

Footballguy
I think the problem most people have is his wasted potential. Yes, the things he has done and will do have been, and I'm sure will continue to be, amazing. He's a freak of nature. But what irritates me is that he could have, and still can do, even more!

It's extremely rare for someone to have the physical abilities he has, and I think for many it irritates the heck out of us when that someone isn't thankful they have it and makes the most of it. If Moss put his mind to it, he could obliterate every receiving record there is, and literally be unstoppable...but I don't think he will, and he's not.

Is he a great player and has he done great things, yes, I think no one will deny that. But could he do even more with what he has and is not taking advantage of that? I think so.

As a fan I hate seeing great talent being wasted. I pay to see the best play their best, when I get less I feel cheated.
I could not agree more.
This is absurd, did you guys even read the initial post made by a real Minn fan. Ds devote more attention to Randy Moss than any other WR in the history of the game. If what he is doing in spite of that does not impress you, then you are simply unable to be impressed IMO. Moss is not asked to do the same things that other WRs are because of his rare physical gifts. Why would you send the most dangerous player in the NFL across the middle to take on hits when just sending him down the sidline draws 3 defenders away. Him running a half arsed stop pattern pulls the CB covering him along with the outside LB and the S to that side on most plays. You guys are all so quick to point out that yes, he is defferent than other WRs. Yet at the same time, you fail to realize that that difference is why he is not used in the same way by his team as others and why his game is different. Coaches, at least good ones, play to the stregth of their players and put players in the best situations to be successfull. You simply can NOT compare Rice and Moss because of this. The strengths in their game are so vastly different it makes it useless. This carries over to the others you mentioned as well. If you think Moss is so different from other WRs in terms of his physical gifts, then WHY DO YOU CONTINUALLY TRY AND MOLD HIM TO OTHER WRS?
 
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BlueOnion

Footballguy
I have always considered Randy Moss comparable to a nuclear weapon, his mere presence impacts the game more than anyone else. You cannot deny this.A lot like Shaquille O'Neil, you cannot measure Shaq's impact on a game by his numbers alone.

 

P Boy

Footballguy
This very thing could be said of EVERY WR in the league with their respective QB.
I couldn't disagree more. There are some WRs that save their QBs from INTs by getting into the mix & knocking down a badly thrown ball, or by acting as a DB on an underthrown ball. They can really make their QBs look good despite some bad throws. Moss on the other hand may turn a bad pass into a TD, but just as often will make his QB look ridiculous by pulling up 10 yds short on an in, making Culpepper look like he didn't have a clue where he was throwing when it was Moss that was entirely at fault for not being at his spot when the ball arrived.
 

CalBear

Footballguy
Randy Moss, at age 28, is the best WR in the game, even despite his personality issues.

But to be considered the best ever, he will need to be productive once he's no longer able to do the same things he can do now physically. Jerry Rice put up 1200 yards and 7 TDs at age 40. If you look at the true greats in any sport, they adapted as their abilities changed; Michael Jordan at 35 was nothing like the player he was at 23, but he was still among the best in the game.

I don't think Moss has the fortitude or the brains to succeed in that way. He has three or four years of dominance left, then a quick decline.

 

jasvic

Footballguy
I think the problem most people have is his wasted potential.  Yes, the things he has done and will do have been, and I'm sure will continue to be, amazing.  He's a freak of nature.  But what irritates me is that he could have, and still can do, even more!

It's extremely rare for someone to have the physical abilities he has, and I think for many it irritates the heck out of us when that someone isn't thankful they have it and makes the most of it.  If Moss put his mind to it, he could obliterate every receiving record there is, and literally be unstoppable...but I don't think he will, and he's not.

Is he a great player and has he done great things, yes, I think no one will deny that.  But could he do even more with what he has and is not taking advantage of that?  I think so.

As a fan I hate seeing great talent being wasted.  I pay to see the best play their best, when I get less I feel cheated.
I could not agree more.
This is absurd, did you guys even read the initial post made by a real Minn fan. Ds devote more attention to Randy Moss than any other WR in the history of the game. If what he is doing in spite of that does not impress you, then you are simply unable to be impressed IMO. Moss is not asked to do the same things that other WRs are because of his rare physical gifts. Why would you send the most dangerous player in the NFL across the middle to take on hits when just sending him down the sidline draws 3 defenders away. Him running a half arsed stop pattern pulls the CB covering him along with the outside LB and the S to that side on most plays. You guys are all so quick to point out that yes, he is defferent than other WRs. Yet at the same time, you fail to realize that that difference is why he is not used in the same way by his team as others and why his game is different. Coaches, at least good ones, play to the stregth of their players and put players in the best situations to be successfull. You simply can NOT compare Rice and Moss because of this. The strengths in their game are so vastly different it makes it useless. This carries over to the others you mentioned as well. If you think Moss is so different from other WRs in terms of his physical gifts, then WHY DO YOU CONTINUALLY TRY AND MOLD HIM TO OTHER WRS?
I think you're missing my point. I'm not looking to argue and I am NOT part of the bash Randy club. Also, not once did I compare him to anyone.It's fairly well known that Moss only plays 100% when he wants to...which is not all the time. By definition, that is a waste.

Like I said, he is a freak, amazing, great, throw in whatever good adjective you like, and I'll agree. The fact that he doesn't use these gifts all the time is what irks me, and his general bad attitude, but that's another story.

I'm not comparing him to other WRS or expecting him to fit a positional mold, I'm comparing him to other NFL players. The ones who do everyting they can to win, make themselves better, etc. I don't think he does that, it's a waste.

And I understand how he effects opposing defenses just by being on the field. Once again, not doubting his effectiveness or impact on the game, but he has the potential to do so much more, and he feels doesn't need to, he's doing just enough to be great and collect his fat checks instead of being legendary.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

 

jurb26

Footballguy
This very thing could be said of EVERY WR in the league with their respective QB.
I couldn't disagree more. There are some WRs that save their QBs from INTs by getting into the mix & knocking down a badly thrown ball, or by acting as a DB on an underthrown ball. They can really make their QBs look good despite some bad throws. Moss on the other hand may turn a bad pass into a TD, but just as often will make his QB look ridiculous by pulling up 10 yds short on an in, making Culpepper look like he didn't have a clue where he was throwing when it was Moss that was entirely at fault for not being at his spot when the ball arrived.
OK, now your clearly just :fishing: . If you think that Moss has never saved a bad play/int for his QB there is nothing more to say but.... :bye:
 

jurb26

Footballguy
I think you're missing my point. I'm not looking to argue and I am NOT part of the bash Randy club. Also, not once did I compare him to anyone.

It's fairly well known that Moss only plays 100% when he wants to...which is not all the time. By definition, that is a waste.

Like I said, he is a freak, amazing, great, throw in whatever good adjective you like, and I'll agree. The fact that he doesn't use these gifts all the time is what irks me, and his general bad attitude, but that's another story.

I'm not comparing him to other WRS or expecting him to fit a positional mold, I'm comparing him to other NFL players. The ones who do everyting they can to win, make themselves better, etc. I don't think he does that, it's a waste.

And I understand how he effects opposing defenses just by being on the field. Once again, not doubting his effectiveness or impact on the game, but he has the potential to do so much more, and he feels doesn't need to, he's doing just enough to be great and collect his fat checks instead of being legendary.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
I apologize and yes I do understand you much better now. I do not agree with your opinion though and thats fair enough.
 

jasvic

Footballguy
I think you're missing my point.  I'm not looking to argue and I am NOT part of the bash Randy club.  Also, not once did I compare him to anyone.

It's fairly well known that Moss only plays 100% when he wants to...which is not all the time.  By definition, that is a waste.

Like I said, he is a freak, amazing, great, throw in whatever good adjective you like, and I'll agree.  The fact that he doesn't use these gifts all the time is what irks me, and his general bad attitude, but that's another story.

I'm not comparing him to other WRS or expecting him to fit a positional mold, I'm comparing him to other NFL players.  The ones who do everyting they can to win, make themselves better, etc.  I don't think he does that, it's a waste.

And I understand how he effects opposing defenses just by being on the field.  Once again, not doubting his effectiveness or impact on the game, but he has the potential to do so much more, and he feels doesn't need to, he's doing just enough to be great and collect his fat checks instead of being legendary.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
I apologize and yes I do understand you much better now. I do not agree with your opinion though and thats fair enough.
Cool and the gang, thanks.
 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
But to be considered the best ever, he will need to be productive once he's no longer able to do the same things he can do now physically. Jerry Rice put up 1200 yards and 7 TDs at age 40. If you look at the true greats in any sport, they adapted as their abilities changed; Michael Jordan at 35 was nothing like the player he was at 23, but he was still among the best in the game.
:mellow: Does this mean Emmitt Smith is the greatest running back ever?

 

P Boy

Footballguy
OK, now your clearly just :fishing: . If you think that Moss has never saved a bad play/int for his QB there is nothing more to say but.... :bye:
I certainly am not fishing, and I certainly did not make the statement that you referenced above. In fact, I actually stated that Moss will make a bad throw look good at times, if you'll read my post.
 

CalBear

Footballguy
But to be considered the best ever, he will need to be productive once he's no longer able to do the same things he can do now physically. Jerry Rice put up 1200 yards and 7 TDs at age 40. If you look at the true greats in any sport, they adapted as their abilities changed; Michael Jordan at 35 was nothing like the player he was at 23, but he was still among the best in the game.
:mellow: Does this mean Emmitt Smith is the greatest running back ever?
I think that's another debate, but certainly an argument can be made for Emmitt as the best ever. Though Payton also produced past age 32. I think Sanders may have been the most talented RB ever, but after bailing on the league at age 30, after a season where he scored just 4 TDs, I think it's hard to call him the best ever. It's hard to compare modern runners to Jim Brown.

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
It's hard to compare modern runners to Jim Brown.
Well this would be a whole other thread and there are lots of arguments against Jim Brown.But likewise, if someone is going to annoint Jim Brown the best running back ever when he only played while in his prime, is there no reason one could not apply the same logic to Randy Moss?

 

B-Deep

Footballguy
This is absurd, did you guys even read the initial post made by a real Minn fan. Ds devote more attention to Randy Moss than any other WR in the history of the game. If what he is doing in spite of that does not impress you, then you are simply unable to be impressed IMO. Moss is not asked to do the same things that other WRs are because of his rare physical gifts. Why would you send the most dangerous player in the NFL across the middle to take on hits when just sending him down the sidline draws 3 defenders away. Him running a half arsed stop pattern pulls the CB covering him along with the outside LB and the S to that side on most plays. You guys are all so quick to point out that yes, he is defferent than other WRs. Yet at the same time, you fail to realize that that difference is why he is not used in the same way by his team as others and why his game is different. Coaches, at least good ones, play to the stregth of their players and put players in the best situations to be successfull. You simply can NOT compare Rice and Moss because of this. The strengths in their game are so vastly different it makes it useless. This carries over to the others you mentioned as well. If you think Moss is so different from other WRs in terms of his physical gifts, then WHY DO YOU CONTINUALLY TRY AND MOLD HIM TO OTHER WRS?
Obviously you see something different then I do. If he was SO valuable that he is not expected to catch balls over the middle, then I am stupified at why the coach, OC, and QB did not get that memo when they called the plays. You even have his giving up on a pattern as a positive, so obviously you do not think he is capable of anything other then brilliance. We just disagree, no matter how great you are I want 100% effort in between the stripes, and I never want a "team leader" to utter the words "I'll play when I want to play" after a playoff loss.

 

jurb26

Footballguy
You even have his giving up on a pattern as a positive, so obviously you do not think he is capable of anything other then brilliance.
LOL, I never said this was a positive for Moss the individual, only that it still creates a positive effect for his team.
 

CalBear

Footballguy
It's hard to compare modern runners to Jim Brown.
Well this would be a whole other thread and there are lots of arguments against Jim Brown.But likewise, if someone is going to annoint Jim Brown the best running back ever when he only played while in his prime, is there no reason one could not apply the same logic to Randy Moss?
One could try to say that Moss was the best WR while in his prime, but Rice performed just as well as Moss in his prime on a statistical basis, and better relative to his peers (Rice was the #1 or #2 WR by fantasy points for 10 years in a row). If Moss is going to challenge Jerry for the title of best of all time, he will need to have a career that's just as long and accomplished. It won't happen.On Brown, again, I don't like comparing old-era to new-era players. There is no doubt that Brown dominated the league in a way that Smith, Sanders, and Payton never did, but his career was short and his competition was weaker. Comparing Rice and Moss isn't as difficult, as their careers overlapped and the game hasn't changed that much in the past 20 years.

 

BeTheMatch

Let it burn!
While there is no denying Moss' incerdible talent & amazing ability on the field, similarly there is no denying his cowardice in a crowd coming across the middle, his loafing on plays when his number isn't called, and his willingness to publicly humiliate his QB on the sideline.

OAK fans ought to be ready to take the bad with the good, just like Vikes' fans had to. Facts is facts.
You don't know what the ****** you're talking about! I love people who swallow all the overblown BS spewed by the media. If you ran a 60-yard fly pattern three straight times, might you want to take a breather? What's the difference if he runs his route? His purpose on those plays is take several defenders out of the play, which he accomplished.Anyone who rips on Randy Moss is a moron. All of you. Morons.

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
One could try to say that Moss was the best WR while in his prime, but Rice performed just as well as Moss in his prime on a statistical basis, and better relative to his peers (Rice was the #1 or #2 WR by fantasy points for 10 years in a row). If Moss is going to challenge Jerry for the title of best of all time, he will need to have a career that's just as long and accomplished. It won't happen.
One could argue that the rule changes benefited Rice's abilities more so than Moss' though.
 

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