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Dems lose again in GA (1 Viewer)

On the gutter cleaning example- major universities do this kind of thing. I worked at a big 10 school for years. If dept A needs a new roof on a shed, they have to call dept b. Dept b comes out, gives their estimate, which is double what it should cost or more (and 4 guys come out to do the estimate). You don't get to get another quote because its union work and unless they say it's ok to have it done by a private company you have to have the university employees do it. I'm talking like 20x15 on each side and then quoting north of $8000. 

I am 100% sure that this happens at every level of govt everywhere. Also the "use all of the budget so we don't get a decrease in budget". If it is going out to the private sector there is often "pay to play" politics involved. 

This isn't a blue/red distinction either. 
Actually I have done bids on government projects for years. They are pretty competitive in my experience and while there can be some favoritism to a local I have won bids anyway as the process is highly regulated. And I can assure you those bids I won while profitable weren't usually as profitable as private sector gigs with limited competition.

 
To the Democrats losing. Yet another centrist using GOP talking points went down to the real GOPer. If you keep telling the voters that the Republican is basically right why shouldn't they vote for them?

Present a competing cohesive vision that resonates with real people and give them a real choice. Those are the keys to winning. 

 
No, she was just so unlikable and arrogant.  I'm saying in general your ideas are too far left and not everyone who disagrees with them are racist homophobes.  Plus you need to change your leadership.  Pelosi needs to go (and take McCain with her).  Fresh faces and ideas that are not that far out.  The problem is your ideas all come from areas where there are only democrats.  You have no sound board to bounce those ideas off of so what sounds normal to someone from NY is extreme to someone living in WI. 
Not sure which policies you claim are to far left but the ones Bernie ran on often enjoy bipartisan majority support.

 
Not sure which policies you claim are to far left but the ones Bernie ran on often enjoy bipartisan majority support.
Wow, if you think Bernie's idea's are not Far Left you absolutely are going to continue to lose.  He's a socialist.  I'd say most of his ideas are far left.  I'm not saying they wernt popular with a segment of the Democrat base but that small segment of their base has too large a sway in their party IMO.  It's great to have energized kids at your rally saying they want free education, free healthcare etc but getting the rest of the middle class to pay for it is a no go.  And no I do not believe all his ideas could have been paid for by taxing the 1%'ers.

 
Wow, if you think Bernie's idea's are not Far Left you absolutely are going to continue to lose.  He's a socialist.  I'd say most of his ideas are far left.  I'm not saying they wernt popular with a segment of the Democrat base but that small segment of their base has too large a sway in their party IMO.  It's great to have energized kids at your rally saying they want free education, free healthcare etc but getting the rest of the middle class to pay for it is a no go.  And no I do not believe all his ideas could have been paid for by taxing the 1%'ers.
They are popular with bipartisan majorities in many cases and not just kids. This is the guy that got a standing ovation from Trump voters on his support for single payer.

The people in this country lean far more left than many, I guess yourself included, seem to think. Hopefully the Democrats will realize it at some point but then all that pretty donor money is so distracting.

 
They are popular with bipartisan majorities in many cases and not just kids. This is the guy that got a standing ovation from Trump voters on his support for single payer.

The people in this country lean far more left than many, I guess yourself included, seem to think. Hopefully the Democrats will realize it at some point but then all that pretty donor money is so distracting.
Agree to disagree then :)   I dont think thats the case at all.  As I said, democrats are concentrated in very high density locations.  I think this election proved me correct.  They couldn't beat a poor candidate like Trump. Something is wrong with their message clearly (and the candidate they put up obviously).   

 
Wow, if you think Bernie's idea's are not Far Left you absolutely are going to continue to lose.  He's a socialist.  I'd say most of his ideas are far left.  I'm not saying they wernt popular with a segment of the Democrat base but that small segment of their base has too large a sway in their party IMO.  It's great to have energized kids at your rally saying they want free education, free healthcare etc but getting the rest of the middle class to pay for it is a no go.  And no I do not believe all his ideas could have been paid for by taxing the 1%'ers.
Sounds familiar 

 
Wow, if you think Bernie's idea's are not Far Left you absolutely are going to continue to lose.  He's a socialist.  I'd say most of his ideas are far left.  I'm not saying they wernt popular with a segment of the Democrat base but that small segment of their base has too large a sway in their party IMO. 
As a Dem, I'd argue the opposite. The "old guard" are the ones with way too much sway IMO.

The young people that came out for Bernie, they are the future of the party.

The old guard gave us Hillary.

Every poll had Bernie beating Trump in the general, by more than Hillary. So it stands to reason that his message resonated with more people overall.

 
Agree to disagree then :)   I dont think thats the case at all.  As I said, democrats are concentrated in very high density locations.  I think this election proved me correct.  They couldn't beat a poor candidate like Trump. Something is wrong with their message clearly (and the candidate they put up obviously).   
Well then it certainly isn't a problem of too far left. Hillary is not all that liberal. If you think she is then you are looking from a far right position.

They lost to a clown they propped up. Their candidate didn't even bother to go to some rust belt states at all. One of her surrogates talked about not worrying about losing blue collar voters because they were going to win moderate Republicans. As Van Jones said Hillary took a billion dollars set it on fire and called it a campaign. Trump beat the most disliked candidate the Democrats have ever run. Ever. Anyone else and Donald is hawking his new reality show instead of embarrassing the nation in a daily basis 

 
At least now they are in a position where they can indulge their reformist side, since there are a shockingly low number of actual office-holders.  And the republicans now will have a problem related to the fact that they benefitted from this recent wave of populism, and now have to deliver perceived improvements or they will lose that edge.
I think that in theory, your post makes sense, but I'm not entirely convinced about your ending.  With the news media as fractured and biased, on both sides, as it is today, it's easy to find stories spun to fit whatever narrative you're seeking.  It's possible to pick nearly any major news story and compare media coverage on both sides and walk away thinking both sides won (see the MSNBC vs. Fox coverage of the Comey testimony).  

I suppose what I am saying is that Trump and the currently-elected GOP leadership may not actually have to deliver substantive improvements of any kind, so long as there are news outlets and sources preaching to the choir, so to speak.  As a pretty staunch independent libertarian-leaning voter, I don't particularly have a dog in the GOP/Dem fight, but the news media landscape - call it "fake news" or whatever you'd like - is looking like a pretty terrifying long-term proposition, from where I sit here.

 
Im not even discussing the merits of this issue.  I'm saying when people are losing their jobs and healthcare and Dems dont acknowledge this.  This is the result your going to get. 
I do find this post enlightening, and after reading a number of similar comments during last year's campaign it became clear to me that Trump had a legitimate chance to win.  Trump absolutely dominated the campaign narrative on jobs while providing very little in the way of substantive policy.  Hillary, on the other hand, hammered policy positions in her speeches.

There was a similar comment someone made during the campaign, very similar to this....at the time, I went back and sifted through the local news media stories from Hillary's previous week of campaign tour speeches....every single one of them was hammering jobs, hard.  We're going to do X to help laid-off steelworkers in <insert Rust Belt city>.  We're going to do Y to implement job skills training for <insert region>.

And it was totally glossed-over, repeatedly, in favor of Trump doing things like putting on a coal miner's helmet or talking about winning.  One candidate came to the table with actual substance - substance that I don't necessarily agree with, given my own leanings, but substance nonetheless - and was blown away by the other candidate speaking in wild soundbites.  Trump absolutely ####### dominated the jobs narrative, and I'm convinced that it probably won him the election.  But the fact that he did it so easily against a candidate with formulated ideas....that's what the Dems need to be worried about.  If they want to be competitive in future races, they need to figure out how to control that narrative.

 
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I don't disagree, Trump is the most child-like candidate of all-time.  But you don't win over voters by implying they are just a bunch of dumb racists.  If you are not winning elections, maybe it is because voters disagree with you agenda and maybe it is not because they are a bunch of stupid racists.  The way to win over voters is to find out what about your message it is they don't like and find a message that does appeal to them.  Becoming even more aggressive with attacks and name-calling as a few are suggesting here, is not the answer. 
There were 16 other options to Trump. All of which, except Carson, had mostly well reasoned "adult" positions on conservative and liberal issues. But the voters went with the least equipped, most childish candidate who surrounds himself with some people who can only through the rosiest of rose colored lenses could kindly be referred to as "Nationalist".

There were plenty of options for those who were against the liberal agenda and they were soundly rejected in favor of the least conservative one of the bunch.

I think it is naive to believe that Trump's base does not harbor a significant population of people with racist leanings who don't truly support the Republic. 

Then there is the dangerous trend of "faith based" denialism pushing a form of "Christian" fundamentalist belief that is looking more-and-more like the Sharia law they frequently rail against. These people also seem to have no concern for the Republic if it gets in the way of their beliefs.

And for some bizarre reason our Senators and Representatives are catering to these dangerous groups.

It's a shame that the reasonable fiscal conservatives (a group to which I belong) who voted for Trump (a group to which I do not belong) get lumped in with the dangerous ones but we need to keep focusing on the dangerous ones and do everything we can to not normalize them and make our voices heard in the halls.of Congress.

We can only hope that going forward the reasonable fiscal conservatives wrest back control of the party and start putting forth intelligent, qualified conservative candidates.

I am not hopeful that will happen and unless/until it does I will continue to align myself with those who oppose these enemies of the Republic.

 
One candidate came to the table with actual substance - substance that I don't necessarily agree with, given my own leanings, but substance nonetheless - and was blown away by the other candidate speaking in wild soundbites.
1. I don't think people trusted Hillary when her mouth moved, so the nature of what came out of it didn't resonate.  Most people realize she says what the focus group recommends (on many but not all topics).  She's basically a 'bot.

2. Donald once asked "what have you got to lose?!"  Not surprisingly, people sick of the Clinton/Bush drill (with a feckless side of Obama) we have been doing since the Wall came down actually signed up.

 
1. I don't think people trusted Hillary when her mouth moved, so the nature of what came out of it didn't resonate.  Most people realize she says what the focus group recommends (on many but not all topics).  She's basically a 'bot.

2. Donald once asked "what have you got to lose?!"  Not surprisingly, people sick of the Clinton/Bush drill (with a feckless side of Obama) we have been doing since the Wall came down actually signed up.
Right, and those are fair points, but if you'll notice his wording - and it was a common refrain from many voters throughout the course of the election - it's not that Hillary isn't credible.  I don't find Hillary necessarily credible, though that's neither here nor there.  It's that she and the Democratic Party in general are ignoring / not acknowledging the problem.  That's just simply not true, and that's what I find interesting.  If you turned on the nightly news, it was a 30-second blurb about whatever city Hillary is visiting followed by a 5-minute rant on <insert something silly that Trump said that day>.  By showboating and self-promotion, which Trump is surely great at, he stole the entire story.  No one cared what Hillary said in a random campaign speech....she could talk about substantive economic policy until blue in the face - and she did, figuratively - and no one would notice or care.  Why?  Because Trump controlled the narrative from the start.

 
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There were 16 other options to Trump. All of which, except Carson, had mostly well reasoned "adult" positions on conservative and liberal issues. But the voters went with the least equipped, most childish candidate who surrounds himself with some people who can only through the rosiest of rose colored lenses could kindly be referred to as "Nationalist".

There were plenty of options for those who were against the liberal agenda and they were soundly rejected in favor of the least conservative one of the bunch.

I think it is naive to believe that Trump's base does not harbor a significant population of people with racist leanings who don't truly support the Republic. 

Then there is the dangerous trend of "faith based" denialism pushing a form of "Christian" fundamentalist belief that is looking more-and-more like the Sharia law they frequently rail against. These people also seem to have no concern for the Republic if it gets in the way of their beliefs.

And for some bizarre reason our Senators and Representatives are catering to these dangerous groups.

It's a shame that the reasonable fiscal conservatives (a group to which I belong) who voted for Trump (a group to which I do not belong) get lumped in with the dangerous ones but we need to keep focusing on the dangerous ones and do everything we can to not normalize them and make our voices heard in the halls.of Congress.

We can only hope that going forward the reasonable fiscal conservatives wrest back control of the party and start putting forth intelligent, qualified conservative candidates.

I am not hopeful that will happen and unless/until it does I will continue to align myself with those who oppose these enemies of the Republic.
I don't take issue with what you are saying, except for the bolded.  Most people are not that engaged in politics.  They have no idea who Trump surrounds himself with.  They distrust Washington and the media (both of which I think there is ample justification for) and simple slogans like 'drain the swamp' and 'make America great again' appeal to them.  It's not much different than the 'hope and change' message which Obama rode to victory.  Ask the average person why they voted for someone, and you get simple answers.  I think it is wrong to project ill will on large groups of people. 

 
After 8 years of Obama and the candidates that were offered up for POTUS last year, I have checked out of politics.  Life is great.  I rarely watch the news.  Trump is the buffoon that I thought he was and much worse of a leader than I had hoped.  There are many issues facing this country and very few, if any, are being addressed.  Avoiding the issues facing this country did not start with Trump.  It started years ago and continues to get worse.  Our government is controlled by big business.  Government does not care about you or your family.  They care about obtaining money from big doners.   

And Dems should not be losing their minds over their losses.  They will be back in power soon.  The voters will grow sick of the GOPs inability to fix anything and vote D soon enough.  Of course, the Dems will not address problems either and will be back out of power a few years later since the game is not going to change.   Politics is a game to obtain wealth and power, not serve the people.     

 
I do find this post enlightening, and after reading a number of similar comments during last year's campaign it became clear to me that Trump had a legitimate chance to win.  Trump absolutely dominated the campaign narrative on jobs while providing very little in the way of substantive policy.  Hillary, on the other hand, hammered policy positions in her speeches.

There was a similar comment someone made during the campaign, very similar to this....at the time, I went back and sifted through the local news media stories from Hillary's previous week of campaign tour speeches....every single one of them was hammering jobs, hard.  We're going to do X to help laid-off steelworkers in <insert Rust Belt city>.  We're going to do Y to implement job skills training for <insert region>.

And it was totally glossed-over, repeatedly, in favor of Trump doing things like putting on a coal miner's helmet or talking about winning.  One candidate came to the table with actual substance - substance that I don't necessarily agree with, given my own leanings, but substance nonetheless - and was blown away by the other candidate speaking in wild soundbites.  Trump absolutely ####### dominated the jobs narrative, and I'm convinced that it probably won him the election.  But the fact that he did it so easily against a candidate with formulated ideas....that's what the Dems need to be worried about.  If they want to be competitive in future races, they need to figure out how to control that narrative.
The coal miners made a yuge mistake. 

They will find out when not only their job is gone forever but also their safety nets. 

 
I don't take issue with what you are saying, except for the bolded.  Most people are not that engaged in politics.  They have no idea who Trump surrounds himself with.  They distrust Washington and the media (both of which I think there is ample justification for) and simple slogans like 'drain the swamp' and 'make America great again' appeal to them.  It's not much different than the 'hope and change' message which Obama rode to victory.  Ask the average person why they voted for someone, and you get simple answers.  I think it is wrong to project ill will on large groups of people. 
Agreed.  Of course a huge part of Trump's message was anti-immigrant and it was stated in the most inflammatory way possible.  Perhaps his most quoted line from the entire election cycle was the whole Mexican rapists thing.

So while I agree that there are plenty of "drain the swamp" types (so sad that so many of them don't see that he did exactly the opposite) and "MAGA" types (who apparently didn't recognize that America was already great. Seriously can you imagine the backlash from those very same people if Hillary had used that as her tagline?). And those people are mostly well intentioned but there are just as many who went with Trump solely because of his anit-brown rhetoric and among those people are incredibly dangerous types and they must not be normalized on any level.

 
Agreed.  Of course a huge part of Trump's message was anti-immigrant and it was stated in the most inflammatory way possible.  Perhaps his most quoted line from the entire election cycle was the whole Mexican rapists thing.

So while I agree that there are plenty of "drain the swamp" types (so sad that so many of them don't see that he did exactly the opposite) and "MAGA" types (who apparently didn't recognize that America was already great. Seriously can you imagine the backlash from those very same people if Hillary had used that as her tagline?). And those people are mostly well intentioned but there are just as many who went with Trump solely because of his anit-brown rhetoric and among those people are incredibly dangerous types and they must not be normalized on any level.
I don't think Trump is anti immigrant or are the folks who voted for him for this reason. I think people want controlled immigration and controlled borders. Sadly Trump had to say this in the most inflammatory way possible thus making reform all the more difficult. Americans in general are the most accepting and welcoming in the world. 

 
I don't think Trump is anti immigrant or are the folks who voted for him for this reason. I think people want controlled immigration and controlled borders. Sadly Trump had to say this in the most inflammatory way possible thus making reform all the more difficult. Americans in general are the most accepting and welcoming in the world. 
Americans used to be among the most accepting in the world, I am not so sure that holds up today. Plenty of Americans have a vile hatred of any immigrants legal or illegal. Trump's message resonated with that group.  I am shocked at how some people refuse to admit/recognize/acknowledge that the Stormfront segment of our population that had previously been marginalized came out in force for Trump and no longer live in the fringes where they belong.

Defend Trump how you (the general you not you specifically) want, I don't think he is as bad as all that personally, but when you (the general you not you specifically) align with him you (the general you not you specifically) have to know that you (the general you not you specifically) also align with them.  You (the general you, not you specifically) may not personally believe in their message but you (the general you not you specifically) are standing with them.  The question I have is: If you (the general you not you specifically) despise them as much as I do what are you (the general you not you specifically) prepared to do about it? I would suggest that you (the general you not you specifically) start by putting Country over party and reject them in no uncertain terms because allowing them to stand with you (the general you not you specifically) does the opposite.

 
Plenty of Americans have a vile hatred of any immigrants legal or illegal. 
Sorry, but I don't believe this.  Are they irrationally afraid of immigrants and buy in to the rhetoric about them?  Sure, but I don't believe plenty of Americans hate them.  I think it's a very small minority who truly hate them.

 
Sorry, but I don't believe this.  Are they irrationally afraid of immigrants and buy in to the rhetoric about them?  Sure, but I don't believe plenty of Americans hate them.  I think it's a very small minority who truly hate them.
I believe you are correct, AAA, but it fits the narrative of a lot of Dem's when they lose an election.

 
Sorry, but I don't believe this.  Are they irrationally afraid of immigrants and buy in to the rhetoric about them?  Sure, but I don't believe plenty of Americans hate them.  I think it's a very small minority who truly hate them.
From the Southern Poverty Law Center

I guess the definition of "plenty" is squishy and I apologize for using that term but 300,000 total registered and if even 10% of those are vocal and active that is plenty in my book.  Particularly as we now live in an age where it isn't as simple as one-person-one-vote. Organized movements can easily act in in a concerted manner on social media to stir up populations with fear based tactics and rally them to their cause on election day.

 
And the Stormfronters aren't even the biggest faction of fundamentalists that are skewing what used to be the Republican party.  The religious zealotry that now appears to be driving so many state houses and influencing our Federal representatives is also a huge threat to the Republic.

If the moderate Republicans don't retake control of the party we will be heading down a path towards some kind of Theocratic Hegemony.

 
And the Stormfronters aren't even the biggest faction of fundamentalists that are skewing what used to be the Republican party.  The religious zealotry that now appears to be driving so many state houses and influencing our Federal representatives is also a huge threat to the Republic.

If the moderate Republicans don't retake control of the party we will be heading down a path towards some kind of Theocratic Hegemony.
Threat to the Republic? 

 
The religious zealotry that now appears to be driving so many state houses and influencing our Federal representatives is also a huge threat to the Republic.

If the moderate Republicans don't retake control of the party we will be heading down a path towards some kind of Theocratic Hegemony.
I'm rather of the impression that Trump has gotten self-described evangelists to abandon their religion.

And the Stormfronters aren't even the biggest faction of fundamentalists that are skewing what used to be the Republican party.
I think this is the threat to the Republic, this creeping racialism and racial identification blended into nationalism. I see shades of separatism, political violence, and rejection of institutions which can lead to downfall of societies. I'm not being hystrionic, I certainly think we can overcome this period and this threat and I think we already are but only because people defend those institutions. But I do think that is where the weak point in our society lies.

 
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Threat to the Republic? 
It feels like this scene from Animal House:

Bluto:
Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Otter:
Germans?

Boon:
Forget it, he's rolling.

Bluto:
And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...

Bluto:
the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!

 
How so? 
Seriously? Stormfront? Okay, broad strokes then.

By working insidiously and in a piecemeal fashion to normalize a racist agenda (with these guys it's definitely racist and I won't dignify it with softer language like "nationalist") that, as their end game, would fundamentally change our way of life socially, culturally, politically and in every other "ly" way imaginable.  We would no longer be a Federalist Republic with a democratically elected representative body (although with the electoral college you could argue that it isn't truly a democratically elected Executive).

 
Seriously? Stormfront? Okay, broad strokes then.

By working insidiously and in a piecemeal fashion to normalize a racist agenda (with these guys it's definitely racist and I won't dignify it with softer language like "nationalist") that, as their end game, would fundamentally change our way of life socially, culturally, politically and in every other "ly" way imaginable.  We would no longer be a Federalist Republic with a democratically elected representative body (although with the electoral college you could argue that it isn't truly a democratically elected Executive).
:loco:

 
Moving on from Stormfront, the religious zealots are, even if they don't do it knowingly (yet), slowly working on implementing their own "Christian" versions of Sharia Law.  It's still in a more nascent stage but they are definitely working the "Religious Freedom" angle for all they can make it worth. It's another path that, if allowed to continue unchecked eventually leads to taking the vote from those who don't believe the same as they do and becoming a true Theocracy ruled under someones interpretation of God's Law.

 
Moving on from Stormfront, the religious zealots are, even if they don't do it knowingly (yet), slowly working on implementing their own "Christian" versions of Sharia Law.  It's still in a more nascent stage but they are definitely working the "Religious Freedom" angle for all they can make it worth. It's another path that, if allowed to continue unchecked eventually leads to taking the vote from those who don't believe the same as they do and becoming a true Theocracy ruled under someones interpretation of God's Law.
Can anyone make sense of this?

 
Sorry, but I don't believe this.  Are they irrationally afraid of immigrants and buy in to the rhetoric about them?  Sure, but I don't believe plenty of Americans hate them.  I think it's a very small minority who truly hate them.
Agree. I think most Americans are just fine with legal immigration.

 
Chaka said:
Moving on from Stormfront, the religious zealots are, even if they don't do it knowingly (yet), slowly working on implementing their own "Christian" versions of Sharia Law.  It's still in a more nascent stage but they are definitely working the "Religious Freedom" angle for all they can make it worth. It's another path that, if allowed to continue unchecked eventually leads to taking the vote from those who don't believe the same as they do and becoming a true Theocracy ruled under someones interpretation of God's Law.
:oldunsure:

 
They are popular with bipartisan majorities in many cases and not just kids. This is the guy that got a standing ovation from Trump voters on his support for single payer.

The people in this country lean far more left than many, I guess yourself included, seem to think. Hopefully the Democrats will realize it at some point but then all that pretty donor money is so distracting.
If that were the case we'd have president Bernie. This country is pretty balanced IMO. Bernie and his scoicalist Ideas are Far Left.  But keep believing this please as this will guarantee continued Ruplician wins....like we've seen the last 4 special elections. 

I did however read just now that the dems may finally get rid of the corpse that is Pelosi. But I know you're side won't disappoint, you will elect someone even more left than her.  Mark my words. You just don't get it 

 
All of that, and it would have only taken about 5,000 votes out of 260,000 to flip and make the difference and give the Democrats a win in a district that the Republican usually wins with a 20% cushion. Republicans are dumb to take this result as some great victory and vindication of their brand if you ask me. 

 

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