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DFS data leak: employees cheating? (1 Viewer)

If you think having access to ownership percentage is more important than having accurate player projections, you know nothing about fantasy sports or DFS. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.
:hophead: Insulting irrelavant braggadocious straw man argument, great.
I'm not taking advice from someone that can't spell irrelevant. I'm saying people's money is safe and they need to stop panicking. Completely relevant
Wonder if we'll ever get numbers of dollars played wk4 vs wk5
 
Tsquared> post a google doc file with your projections after lineups lock this weekend so we can track accuracy going forward

 
Side note, I am still suspended from posting on RG.. First time that has ever happen on forum for me. I cant even private message their staff as that was taken away too..lol

 
I'm looking forward to an in-depth discussion of this whole thing from FBGs on the upcoming episodes of the Audible, Fanduel and Draftkings podcasts, and On the Couch.

I mean, surely they will give lots of air time to a story this big on the front page of the NYTimes, CNN, BusinessInsider, ESPN... pretty much every mainstream media outlet. Just today in the Washington Post: NY Attorney General Launches Investigation.

I would also like it if FBGs, representing their subscribers and the boat-load of referrals they have pushed the way of Fanduel and Draftkings (in return for revenue) would write an open letter -- asking for transparency in the disclosure, a full accounting of who had what info when, and more importantly, how many employees won how much money. Basically an open letter asking for an honest accounting.

Not that such a letter would be certain to accomplish all that much... but if FBGs is going to take subscribers' money and push them to these sites in exchange for revenue and NOT cover the biggest DFS story to date and NOT at least put in a good effort in "representing" the interests of the subscribers, it would smack of censorship or at least selective coverage in a way that is beneficial only to their own financial interests and not their subscribers.

Like I said, looking forward to it. Dodds, Sig, Lammey, Joe Bryant -- hoping you guys rise to the occasion on this one.

 
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wonder the long term implications this will have on the industry. I am a Boston area undergraduate senior and just last week I was talking to DK at a career fair.

 
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How long before a movie comes out about how each companies employees are getting rich winning money at their rivals site.

This sorta reminds me of the movie Boiler room.

 
wonder the long term implications this will have on the industry. I am a Boston area undergraduate senior and just last week I was talking to DK at a career fair.
Take the job and get as much ownership info as possible. Hopefully you're decent at DFS so you can profit in the short time you have left. You just don't know when the AG will shut them down.

 
  • We have permanently banned our employees from playing any daily fantasy games for money, on any site. We will also require all customers to confirm that they are not an employee of any other third party fantasy site, and if they are, they will not be allowed to access our site.
So no employees of Footballguys, Rotogrinders, Rotoworld, etc etc can play. Yeah right. More lies.

 
Below is the initial message I sent Fanduel yesterday and the entire conversation up to a message I received early this morning.

Don, Oct 7, 08:55:
Hi Zane,

Thank you for contacting us.

Media reports on 10/6 raised issues concerning an employee from another fantasy site participating in our NFL Sunday Million contest in Week 3 of the NFL season. Trust with our players is core to our business and has always been our primary concern so we take any potential game integrity issue very seriously.

Based on everything we know thus far, there is no evidence indicating that the integrity of FanDuel's contest was in any way compromised, or that non-public information was used for unfair advantage. That said, the incident has raised questions about the trust-based relationship we have with our players so just relying on what we know right now isn't enough. That's why we're taking the following steps:

We have permanently banned our employees from playing any daily fantasy games for money, on any site. We will also require all customers to confirm that they are not an employee of any other third party fantasy site, and if they are, they will not be allowed to access our site.

We have asked former federal judge and United States Attorney General Michael Mukasey to review the facts and evaluate our internal controls, standards and practices. His mandate is to conduct a review to identify ways that we can ensure we are doing the right things to maintain the trust we have with our players. He will have the freedom and authority to look at any areas he thinks appropriate. We will ask him and his team at the law firm Debevoise & Plimpton to develop a set of recommendations for us to adopt and to highlight any areas where our controls can be strengthened.

We are also creating an internal advisory board, led by Michael Garcia of the Kirkland and Ellis law firm and former United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York. The advisory board will provide on-going advice, recommendations and guidance to ensure that we are always taking every step possible to ensure the integrity of our site and our games. We also look forward to speaking with regulators across the nation about how to define the right set of rules for our industry as it continues to grow.

FanDuel is one of the fastest growing companies in the world. The way fans have embraced our games is a clear sign that fantasy sports is here to stay.

It's our job to ensure that as our company grows, so does our ability to ensure that our fans can be confident in the sanctity and integrity of every game, every day.

In general, our Newsroom (https://newsroom.fanduel.com/) is a good link to bookmark as we'll post official updates there regarding situations like this, new features, site issues, etc.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Best,
Don

Thank you for playing FanDuel.

FanDuel Customer Support Team
www.fanduel.com

Don, Oct 5, 14:33:

Hi Zane,

I appreciate your point of view and understand your frustration. I am not permitted to say anything else about this matter. I'm sorry that I am unable to provide you with more information.

Best,

Don

Thank you for playing FanDuel.

__________________________

FanDuel Customer Support Team

www.fanduel.com

Zane mitchell, Oct 5, 14:05:

I know you saw I included that page in my initial message to you. It's the cause, not the solution, to my frustration and current distrust of your company. Congress and the media are seeing the same things we are. A non-response to a major breach of public trust is not in your best interest.

Don, Oct 5, 13:58:

Hi Zane,

Thanks for reaching out. Our comment on this can be found by going to the following link:

https://newsroom.fanduel.com/2015/10/05/integrity-of-our-employees/"

In general, our Newsroom (https://newsroom.fanduel.com/) is a good link to bookmark as we'll post official updates there regarding situations like this, new features, site issues, etc.

Please let us know if you have any other questions, and we'll be happy to assist you.

Best,

Don

Thank you for playing FanDuel.

__________________________

FanDuel Customer Support Team

www.fanduel.com

Zane mitchell, Oct 5, 13:02:

<a href='https://newsroom.fanduel.com/2015/10/05/integrity-of-our-employees/'>newsroom.fanduel.com/2015/10/05/integrity-of-our-employees/</a>

<br/>

<br/>

I have no doubt the person reading this has no control over the situation in question, or the response. If you could pass it along that would be great.

<br/>

<br/>

Do you understand why this response is insanely lacking? Fanduel and Draftkings are being accused of allowing employees of the other company to use information not available to the public to win hundreds of thousands of dollars from an unaware public. Anything less than a swift and severe response isnt doing you any good. No IPO, no fantasy sports, no more gravy train.

<br/>

<br/>

Do everyone a favor, especially yourselves, and fix this now.

 
  • We have permanently banned our employees from playing any daily fantasy games for money, on any site. We will also require all customers to confirm that they are not an employee of any other third party fantasy site, and if they are, they will not be allowed to access our site.
So no employees of Footballguys, Rotogrinders, Rotoworld, etc etc can play. Yeah right. More lies.
Yep I read that as Dodds can no longer play fanduel

 
  • We have permanently banned our employees from playing any daily fantasy games for money, on any site. We will also require all customers to confirm that they are not an employee of any other third party fantasy site, and if they are, they will not be allowed to access our site.
So no employees of Footballguys, Rotogrinders, Rotoworld, etc etc can play. Yeah right. More lies.
Yep I read that as Dodds can no longer play fanduel
We'll see. It's huge if so. But I suspect the fine print will define third party sites as DK, fantasy fued, yahoo, etc. Sites that specifically run their own daily contests.

 
  • We have permanently banned our employees from playing any daily fantasy games for money, on any site. We will also require all customers to confirm that they are not an employee of any other third party fantasy site, and if they are, they will not be allowed to access our site.
So no employees of Footballguys, Rotogrinders, Rotoworld, etc etc can play. Yeah right. More lies.
Yep I read that as Dodds can no longer play fanduel
But that has ramifications like the FBG Fanduel thing where people compete against the FBG staff. I know that's small potatoes in the grand scheme, but still.

 
FanDuel has clarified that Footballguys staffers can still play in their contests. Employees of DFS hosting sites cannot.

 
  • We have permanently banned our employees from playing any daily fantasy games for money, on any site. We will also require all customers to confirm that they are not an employee of any other third party fantasy site, and if they are, they will not be allowed to access our site.
So no employees of Footballguys, Rotogrinders, Rotoworld, etc etc can play. Yeah right. More lies.
poor dodds can't play there anymore. Wonder what he will do now.
 
These clowns will have their wives and cousins creating accounts and using them for their own benefit.
Yes. Not letting employees play is just a PR move -- probably a necessary one, but it doesn't really solve anything. The real solution is to encrypt all the sensitive data and don't allow anyone to access it until it is made public. If it's impractical not to allow anyone to have it, then make it publicly available from the outset.

 
If it's impractical not to allow anyone to have it, then make it publicly available from the outset.
this
There are problems with this approach -- it will give everyone an incentive to enter dummy lineups until the last second to throw off the ownership percentages, for example. But I think those problems are smaller than the current problems where people don't know which insiders have what secret info.

 
If it's impractical not to allow anyone to have it, then make it publicly available from the outset.
this
There are problems with this approach -- it will give everyone an incentive to enter dummy lineups until the last second to throw off the ownership percentages, for example. But I think those problems are smaller than the current problems where people don't know which insiders have what secret info.
:lol: The site would crash at the last minute when all the whales made last minute changes. I kind of like the thought of big money getting caught up in trying to publicly move the numbers. Funny to me anyway. I prefer transparency by a wide wide margin to any other solution.

 
These clowns will have their wives and cousins creating accounts and using them for their own benefit.
Yes. Not letting employees play is just a PR move -- probably a necessary one, but it doesn't really solve anything. The real solution is to encrypt all the sensitive data and don't allow anyone to access it until it is made public. If it's impractical not to allow anyone to have it, then make it publicly available from the outset.
DFS is a great concept. Too bad some compulsive gamblers are going to ruin it completely.

I took my money out of DK and FD yesterday. I might play again when there is some tiered approached to entering contests. If you want to bet thousands a week bet against others doing the same. If you want to bet a hundred each week play against similar competition. As long as one can enter hundreds and thousands of contests each day it will always be crooked. The avg fantasy football player will stick to old school FF.

 
These clowns will have their wives and cousins creating accounts and using them for their own benefit.
Yes. Not letting employees play is just a PR move -- probably a necessary one, but it doesn't really solve anything. The real solution is to encrypt all the sensitive data and don't allow anyone to access it until it is made public. If it's impractical not to allow anyone to have it, then make it publicly available from the outset.
It can't be that difficult or impractical to keep anyone from having access. Financial institutions of all ilk manage to do it. Obviously controls, encryption, etc. can be bypassed by a rogue employee given sufficient time and expertise, but that's true of so much of the information that so many entities collect from us for myriad reasons. I "trust" my bank for example, but I don't "trust" every employee at the bank. I take it on some faith that my bank has sufficient controls in place to keep employees out of my personal financial information. Part of that trust that we have in our banks stems from government oversight and regulations. We can debate the efficacy of that oversight and those regulations, but they help the vast majority of us sleep at night when virtually all of our financial worth is held by massive multinational entities employing thousands of folks across multiple continents.

My point is, there's a degree of irrational hysteria going on from the consumer side and massive level of denial on the supplier side. It's not like FD, DK, etc. have to invent some new sort of encryption protocol and controls. They exist in the marketplace already. If they weren't already in place (and we don't know that they weren't) then it's incompetence of the highest order, but that should be easily remedied moving forward.

FD's statement is precisely the kind of response we should have been looking for. The fact that it took so long to generate indicates that this whole thing caught them a bit flat-footed, but whatever. The next step will be to see how forthcoming they are with the results of the audit as well as with the implementation of the action plan recommended by the audit.

 
I imagine the guy who sent the errant tweet is not very popular in the office these days. You have a bunch of young guys not making a ton of money in their paychecks but able to supplement their income by crushing it on their competitors site. How many of those guys were making more money playing daily than their actually paycheck? Now the gravy train has stopped completely thanks to that one tweet. I bet some of those guys are just going to quit the job so they can continue playing. Hopefully the errant tweet will turn out to be a good thing for public players and the industry but it'll never be good thing for the people in that office who have made 6 million to date on DraftKings. That guy has to feel like Private Pyle in Full Metal Jacket right about now.

 
These clowns will have their wives and cousins creating accounts and using them for their own benefit.
Yes. Not letting employees play is just a PR move -- probably a necessary one, but it doesn't really solve anything. The real solution is to encrypt all the sensitive data and don't allow anyone to access it until it is made public. If it's impractical not to allow anyone to have it, then make it publicly available from the outset.
DFS is a great concept. Too bad some compulsive gamblers are going to ruin it completely.

I took my money out of DK and FD yesterday. I might play again when there is some tiered approached to entering contests. If you want to bet thousands a week bet against others doing the same. If you want to bet a hundred each week play against similar competition. As long as one can enter hundreds and thousands of contests each day it will always be crooked. The avg fantasy football player will stick to old school FF.
why not just enter the free contests if you're worried about the "compulsive gamblers"?

 
If it's impractical not to allow anyone to have it, then make it publicly available from the outset.
this
There are problems with this approach -- it will give everyone an incentive to enter dummy lineups until the last second to throw off the ownership percentages, for example. But I think those problems are smaller than the current problems where people don't know which insiders have what secret info.
There's a level of geekery here that would strongly interest some computer nerds that hate football. The guy that says "who is Tom Brady" might be an interesting type for them to hire here. With all their $, even if not in this instance I think they need this type of individual around and will soon find a need.

Simplest IMO is to just get rid of the data. Don't calculate the percent owned. Rather than pay some outside company to monitor this data and it's usage, pay the auditor to make sure it's not calculated or gleaned from anything.

Yours and JP and Dodds' writing will just go from using 50% and 6% to using the words "many" and "few."

This whole percentages thing I struggle with in an over-thinking type manner. During the last few days I've figured many of these people that think they could use it so wisely are kidding themselves. In time, I'm sure I could work up a decent theory but for now it's hypothesis and shooting that down. Last week suppose you want to join the masses with starting Antonio Brown or think you're cute with Karlos Williams and small %. Neither were good picks. It is much easier said than done. For the most part, I consider this an over-thinking trap and avoid it. I suppose everyone is different but...

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
These clowns will have their wives and cousins creating accounts and using them for their own benefit.
This would be tough. The DFS sites might even prevent anyone from gaining access to ownership percentages prior to kickoff. It would be risky to do after what happened. Also there is hardly any benefit as you don't need to know exact percentages only rough estimates of ownership percentages in GPPs.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
Ramblin Wreck said:
These clowns will have their wives and cousins creating accounts and using them for their own benefit.
Yes. Not letting employees play is just a PR move -- probably a necessary one, but it doesn't really solve anything. The real solution is to encrypt all the sensitive data and don't allow anyone to access it until it is made public. If it's impractical not to allow anyone to have it, then make it publicly available from the outset.
DFS is a great concept. Too bad some compulsive gamblers are going to ruin it completely.

I took my money out of DK and FD yesterday. I might play again when there is some tiered approached to entering contests. If you want to bet thousands a week bet against others doing the same. If you want to bet a hundred each week play against similar competition. As long as one can enter hundreds and thousands of contests each day it will always be crooked. The avg fantasy football player will stick to old school FF.
You're confusing compulsive gamblers with advantage gamblers. Those are two very different sets of people.

BTW, try Yahoo!

 
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ya content manager a bird he tweeted out the security code to the building you got back from lunch and there were 20 strippers on molly twerking in the breakroom. You asked him what happen he said "I dunno man" and jumped out the window lol.

 
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So they are now asking if you work for a other dfs site don't ask if you are related or married to someone that does. Isn't that sorta common policy in contests involving big prize or money?

https://youtu.be/w4Pu_JuPILw

Your first day at draftkings starring Ben affleck

 
DraftKings CEO was on Outside the Lines this morning. He represented himself well until the counterposition came up and jumped right on the small number of Draftkings employees that were winning hundreds of thousands of dollars on Fanduel. He started looking very uncomfortable very quickly.

 
DraftKings CEO was on Outside the Lines this morning. He represented himself well until the counterposition came up and jumped right on the small number of Draftkings employees that were winning hundreds of thousands of dollars on Fanduel. He started looking very uncomfortable very quickly.
Like a cockroach reacts to light.

 
DraftKings CEO was on Outside the Lines this morning. He represented himself well until the counterposition came up and jumped right on the small number of Draftkings employees that were winning hundreds of thousands of dollars on Fanduel. He started looking very uncomfortable very quickly.
Like a cockroach reacts to light.
To be fair he answered every question directly and said the right things. It was just the involuntary non-verbal responses from someone who probably has never dealt with anything even close to this. Guy is maybe 30.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
There are problems with this approach -- it will give everyone an incentive to enter dummy lineups until the last second to throw off the ownership percentages, for example. But I think those problems are smaller than the current problems where people don't know which insiders have what secret info.
I'd call that a feature, not a bug. It's a good thing if ownership % info is unreliable and can't be used with confidence in analysis.

 
DraftKings CEO was on Outside the Lines this morning. He represented himself well until the counterposition came up and jumped right on the small number of Draftkings employees that were winning hundreds of thousands of dollars on Fanduel. He started looking very uncomfortable very quickly.
Like a cockroach reacts to light.
To be fair he answered every question directly and said the right things. It was just the involuntary non-verbal responses from someone who probably has never dealt with anything even close to this. Guy is maybe 30.
34, but yeah, he's not exactly a seasoned executive: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jason-robins/1/70b/262

 
I think if they open up the ownership percentages to be fully transparent prior to lock eliminates all skill involved with DFS. The name of the game is finding that low owned, high-upside play that no one else is one, to take down a big GPP.

Sometimes these low owned, high upside plays are top salary tier guys that get overlooked because another top salary guy has a "can't miss" matchup. The most recent example is a couple weeks ago when Julio Jones went off for >35 pts on DK versus the Cowboys (and AJ Green vs Baltimore) and everyone was on Antonio Brown that week versus the Rams and Brandon Marshall vs Philly. Julio was ~10% owned that day on most sites (AJ < 10%) and Antonio Brown and Brandon Marshall were both at 30%+ ownership. Given the price range, and the ability to see ownership %'s, people are much more likely to gravitate towards Julio and AJ Green when they saw how high of ownership Marshall and Brown were trending at prior to lock. Long story short, AJ and Julio went off, and Brown/Marshall had mediocre days...you had a great shot to win GPPs if you play Julio and AJ but this would have been diluted IMO if people had access to ownership %'s pre-lock.

If I had the choice, I would go for no ownership %'s at any site, as there is skill in being able to predict who will be highly owned or low owned in a given week. Providing this information to everyone takes a lot the fun (and skill) out of the game in my opinion.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
There are problems with this approach -- it will give everyone an incentive to enter dummy lineups until the last second to throw off the ownership percentages, for example. But I think those problems are smaller than the current problems where people don't know which insiders have what secret info.
I'd call that a feature, not a bug. It's a good thing if ownership % info is unreliable and can't be used with confidence in analysis.
Yup. That's why I was laughing at the idea of them trying to hide their work. The effort screws it up for them too.

Seriously, they can encrypt the data, use third party inspectors and auditors, yadaya. Too many have learned from larrybrownsports how to dig into the results of the professional players. Whether what they find reveals impropriety or just the appearance of it, doesn't really matter. The potential barrage of conspiracy theory and accusations feels like a stage 2 cancer atm. They need to remove it by being transparent.

 
I think if they open up the ownership percentages to be fully transparent prior to lock eliminates all skill involved with DFS. The name of the game is finding that low owned, high-upside play that no one else is one, to take down a big GPP.

Sometimes these low owned, high upside plays are top salary tier guys that get overlooked because another top salary guy has a "can't miss" matchup. The most recent example is a couple weeks ago when Julio Jones went off for >35 pts on DK versus the Cowboys (and AJ Green vs Baltimore) and everyone was on Antonio Brown that week versus the Rams and Brandon Marshall vs Philly. Julio was ~10% owned that day on most sites (AJ < 10%) and Antonio Brown and Brandon Marshall were both at 30%+ ownership. Given the price range, and the ability to see ownership %'s, people are much more likely to gravitate towards Julio and AJ Green when they saw how high of ownership Marshall and Brown were trending at prior to lock. Long story short, AJ and Julio went off, and Brown/Marshall had mediocre days...you had a great shot to win GPPs if you play Julio and AJ but this would have been diluted IMO if people had access to ownership %'s pre-lock.

If I had the choice, I would go for no ownership %'s at any site, as there is skill in being able to predict who will be highly owned or low owned in a given week. Providing this information to everyone takes a lot the fun (and skill) out of the game in my opinion.
Ugh. I tried to argue with this and didn't like my take after more consideration.

My fear goes to the conspiracy stuff I see as a cancer. If the information is secret how do we know for sure some insiders don't know the secret. It's become a trust issue. A loud public and political outcry is best avoided. So I guess I want all or nothing. Stop releasing the information altogether or put it out as close to real time as possible.

 
I think if they open up the ownership percentages to be fully transparent prior to lock eliminates all skill involved with DFS. The name of the game is finding that low owned, high-upside play that no one else is one, to take down a big GPP.

Sometimes these low owned, high upside plays are top salary tier guys that get overlooked because another top salary guy has a "can't miss" matchup. The most recent example is a couple weeks ago when Julio Jones went off for >35 pts on DK versus the Cowboys (and AJ Green vs Baltimore) and everyone was on Antonio Brown that week versus the Rams and Brandon Marshall vs Philly. Julio was ~10% owned that day on most sites (AJ < 10%) and Antonio Brown and Brandon Marshall were both at 30%+ ownership. Given the price range, and the ability to see ownership %'s, people are much more likely to gravitate towards Julio and AJ Green when they saw how high of ownership Marshall and Brown were trending at prior to lock. Long story short, AJ and Julio went off, and Brown/Marshall had mediocre days...you had a great shot to win GPPs if you play Julio and AJ but this would have been diluted IMO if people had access to ownership %'s pre-lock.

If I had the choice, I would go for no ownership %'s at any site, as there is skill in being able to predict who will be highly owned or low owned in a given week. Providing this information to everyone takes a lot the fun (and skill) out of the game in my opinion.
Ugh. I tried to argue with this and didn't like my take after more consideration.

My fear goes to the conspiracy stuff I see as a cancer. If the information is secret how do we know for sure some insiders don't know the secret. It's become a trust issue. A loud public and political outcry is best avoided. So I guess I want all or nothing. Stop releasing the information altogether or put it out as close to real time as possible.
That's where they screwed up. Once you lose trust you're screwed with many customers. And they can't really get that trust back without totally changing the concept of the game which will turn off others.

 

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