Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
This sucks for redraft but for dynasty guys who got him as a number 3 or even perhaps as a number 2 I think good things will come.
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Dillon Traded! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gildawg
- Start date
Turf Toe killed Me
Footballguy
hmmmmm....don't you wind up getting the guy you want by offering more than the other team?I don't think they would have gotten him by offering "the set amount", do you?
BoltBacker
Footballguy
This si the first thing I thought of as well. Still, I have to eat crow. I was SURE there was no team in the NFL willing to part with a 2nd rounder to acquire Dillon under the circumstances. In fact, I thought there was no way OAK would even give up that high 3rd rounder. Guess I was wrong. Great day to be a Bengal fan. Lots of good prospects on the board at the end of round #2 and they just got rid of the team cancer.
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
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Irish
Footballguy
If the Raiders do a trade of #2 pick for #7 pick and only Green, then Al Davis should be admitted to a mental hospital. Green is more of a problem child and is less proven than Dillion, and Dillion was only worth a late 2nd rd pick. So trading the 2nd pick for the 7th pick and a 3rd or 4th rd value is not a very wise move.Let's get back to that Willie Green to Oakland thing. I really think this is going to happen.Green and the #7 to Oakland for the #2 and Oakland still get Roy Williams. Aint life grand.
Big Score
Footballguy
Great trade for the Bengals.Bengals get a 2nd rounder for a guy they were going to get rid of...one way or another. NO WAY they would've gotten a 1st rounder for a bruiser type RB pushing 30 and coming off an injury plauged season. Actually surprised they got a 2nd rounder for him. Cleared cap space for FA moves or long term signings of core players they want to keep.Good to Great trade for the Pats.Pats get a possible 2 to 3 year fix at their RB position.....as long as Dillon doesn't continue his negative antics and puts last years nagging injuries behind him. No pressure to grab a RB with their 1st pick. Bellichek has more flexibility to do as he thinks best when it's the Pats turn in the 1st round.Might have over paid. Remains to be seen.In essence: The Bengals shed themselves of a player who has long been a distraction to the team and was on the way out this year, one way or another. Cleared cap space. Snagged a 2nd rounder to boot.The Pats addressed a position need and created flexibility for how they use their 1st round pick.All I can say is, good move for both teams. Given the variables, I think the Bengals come out slightly ahead on this one.
He will also NOT run. Belichick is the craftiest sonofagun in football. Remember a couple years back they openned the season throwing almost every down as folks expected them to run? Sure this will be an occasion and not the norm but it worries me(a Dillon owner). Faulk is probably one of the best 3rd down backs in the league. Due to injuries+free agency, not many teams have had a 3rd down back. They've all had to start and play more. IMO this helps in many many ways:Meggett was an absolute weapon for the Giants+Pats, Leon Johnson had some moments as the Jets 3rd down back. I can see Faulk relishing this role.Now can Faulk return punts and let ol' achy Troy Brown get a lil' rest?The threat of Dillon running will make Brady's job easier. Not to mention the development of Graham whom someday soon may be a serious FF TE.And Dillon running.Bill loves roles, and every soldier doing their job in the battle. Dillon will grant him the opportunity to cement these roles, and the players the opportunity to get comfy and "master" these roles.As for the draft. I don't think they let a special RB pass by but doubt they draft one early. Perfect would be to draft some stud Safety as the loss of Milloy still stings and their D looks to the S. Most likely though(IMO) a LBer or OL.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Well, that depends. If the trade is, at face value, the #2 for the #7 and William Green, then its shakey.If the trade is the #2 for William Green and Roy Williams (or the player they want at 2 but can take at 7), then it would be a downright steal for the Raiders.COlin
Native
Footballguy
Wait a minute, thats not the point at all. There may have been 20 seasons of 30 year old 1000 yard rushers, but only 12 players out of the 25 listed reached 1000. And the number of players that ran for 1000 yards TWICE once over the age of 30 is FIVE - Riggins, Watters, Emmitt, Dorset and Payton.Those are VERY telling numbers. And BTW, Dillon will be 30 in October of this year.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I have seen Dillon's birthday listed as 10/24/74 and also as 10/24/75. For argument's sake, we'll go with the earlier one (which is probably right).As far as I know, a player's age for the season is based on opening day, so Dillon will technically be categorized as being 29 for the year (at least profootball-reference does it that way).It has been well documented that RB do nor fare as well at age 31+, but Dillon will technically have 2 seasons before hitting what has been a traditional wall.I agree that there have not been a ton of top performing performers beyond age 30, but here's a list of all RB since 1970 that were 30 or more years old that have had Top 20 fantasy seasons:
That 55 occurances in 34 seasons--certainly not a lot, but often enough to say that it does happen (1.6 times per season). And when you factor in that there were 13 occurances in the past 5 years (2.6 times per season), the trend shows that RB seem to last a little longer in this era.BTW, I happen to agree that RB over 30 are dicey propositions in either the NFL or FFL. Just trying to show both sides . . .
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QuizGuy66
Footballguy
As a Bengals fan, I'm happy we got what we did and it was nice to see it pan out for Mike Brown (he was adamant about the 2nd rounder).The only way the Pats may have "overpaid" was in giving up the Miami pick instead of their own pick, but the Bengals insisted and I don't think the 7 or 8 slots needed to be a deal breaker for them. This is what NE had to pay - the Raiders were offering a top 3rd round pick, there's no NE 3rd rounder that was better.I think it's a worthwhile gamble for the Patriots given the make up of their team and the RB situation they've had. Will it bring them a Super Bowl again? I don't know about that. Ironically the trade reminds me the most of when the Jets got Curtis Martin (another #28 from the Pats) - Martin has played well for the Jets, but not awe-inspiringly so. I think this might be the case for Corey as well.Those saying the Patriots line is better than the Bengals, I would have to say I'm no sure. Rudi did rip off games of 180+ and 170+ yards including a game with like 43(!) carries. The Bengals moved the chains a lot in their games last year - the problem were moreso on defense.I was curious what kind of surface they are playing on in Foxboro - have they made the switch to field turf? I'm assuming the field up there doesn't add to injury risk? As for the Bengals not being able to get that kind of RB in Round 2, it's kind of funny, b/c they got Dillon in round 2 the year they drafted him (albeit about 15 spaces higher if I recall correctly). It definitely was a case of addition by subraction - there is NO downside for the Bengals. For the Pats? With all of those picks, I really don't see that much downside for them as well. As a Bengals fan, I would love to have the problem of facing Corey in the playoffs, since it means playoffs.Fantasywise, I think that Rudi will probably be properly valued toward the end of round 2, though I'd love to see him slide to my pick at #29, I can't see that possibly happening (I'm protecting Ricky and Deuce almost definitely). I think Corey will be drafted too high - somewhere in the mid-teens, though I personally think that his value is in the high 20s. I would put by Bengals fandom aside and draft him if by some strange lucky chance he was there at #29. The good news for me is that this adds 2 more RBs to the pool which in any case will probably land me a decent #3 before the well runs completely dry.-QG
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Martin's been a HOF calibre player for the Jets.Six seasons, one missed game, and averaged 20 carries a game for five of his six years for the Jets. He is certainly the best Jet from 1970-2004. <insert joke here>
David Yudkin
Footballguy
How many RB have gone 9 for 9 in 1,000 yard rushing seasons? He will jump to the #9 slot all-time in rushing yards this season. How is he NOT a HOF player?
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Whether or not a player gets into the HOF, he can still be HOF calibre.In addition to Martin being HOF calibre, he WILL get inducted into the HOF. His resume is very strong, and he's been a remarkable back. He was never the top back in the league, but he was very good for very long.And btw, he isn't done yet. We're talking about a player who rushed for 946 yards the last ten games of the season (i.e., the number of games Pennington played). He also averaged 4.2 yards per carry.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Just two of course, but you knew that. This would be the year Martin ties Sanders. George (five) and Dillon (six) stayed close for awhile.In reality, I've generally been lukewarm on Martin's current abilities, as he's clearly no longer one of the best RBs in the game. I think this is due more to the presence of other great RBs than his own decline. However, his place in history is not really much of a debate.Martin may be 9th now, but the smart money is on him being ranked sixth by the end of the season. He's only 1,070 yards away from top five, but Jerome Bettis is within a few hundred yards. Marshall Faulk and Eddie George are the only current active players near Martin, and obviously neither are a good bet to make up that difference anytime soon. Dillon is next, 3,068 yards behind Martin.
Hatchdog33
Footballguy
I think this is a great move for the Pats and the Bengals. Both got what they wanted.The Pats, if they get the cap # to 660,000 for a back of Dillon's quality is fantastic.And in reality, the pick they traded if you trace it back to it's origin, is the 3rd rounder that they got from the Saints for Tebucky Jones.So, Dillon for Tebucky Jones, slam dunk Pats !!!!!!
switz
Footballguy
Seems to me that HOF players are more compared to their contemporaries than to their historical counterparts. #9 all time isn't that spectacular when you see Emmitt Smith #1, Barry Sanders #3, Jerome Bettis #6, Marshall Faulk #14, Ricky Watters #15, Eddie George at #17. Some of those guys played less time than Martin, some have SB rings... Among his contemporaries he's 5th all-time, not HOF material.Martin's career YPC is only 4.0, he's only had three seasons with 10+ TDs.Do you consider Bettis a HOFer? Yet his career is eerily similar.Martin was never the rushing leader, never the scoring leader, and has made the ProBowl only 4 times (based on Pro Bowl rosters on pro-football-reference.com, possibly 5, and I'm not sure if any were as alternates)He's been a good RB but not HOF.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Absolutely yes I consider Jerome Bettis a HOF.
switz
Footballguy
Then I can see where we will always disagree.IMO, from what I've seen go into the hall, you have to be top-3 among your contemporaries, and if not you wait 40 years to be in the seniors group and they pity you into the hall.Potential HOFers now playing IMO:LTFaulk (because of how complete a back he is with receiving)Edge (if he can regain form and last quite a few more years)
David Yudkin
Footballguy
So what, if anything, can Martin do (in your eyes) to merit HOF consideration? Let's say he holds on for another 3,600 rushing yards over the next 3-4 seasons (unlikely, I know, but just go with me on this one).That would make Martin one of the Top 3 RB all-time for rushing yards. He had over 1,300 yards last year, and with his conditioning program, he COULD last a few more years. Marcus Allen played until he was 37 . . .Is Top 3 rushing all-time not HOF worthy?I would say Martin is leaps and bounds ahead of Edge and LT at this point in HOF consideration, as they both need 5 more years under them to get to where Martin is.
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switz
Footballguy
Not trying to be argumentative, really.I don't see Bettis and Martin a HOF material any more than I see Terry Allen as HOF material, or Ricky Watters. I just don't think they separated themselves from the pack enough to be considered the cream of the crop, especially playing in the same time as Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith, or even guys like Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes (who I also do not consider HOF RBs)
What it really comes down to is whatever Paul Zimmermann thinks (if he's still there when Martin is eligible) since he represents the Jets. From this article, I would concede that Dr. Zwould reccommend him for the hall, but not Jerome Bettis.
This is a point I found extremely interesting:
I still for some reason can't bring myself to view Martin as a HOF calibre back though...
switz
Footballguy
David, I agree on both counts.The first one is clearly hypothetical, and if that point came, then sure, no doubt, a shoe in. But on length of career and placement on the all-time rushing list, Terry Allen is pretty high up, top-20 I think, but I doubt anyone considers him HOF material. There's more to it than just length of career, and number of carries at 4.0 a pop.On the second point, I agree as well, their careers are too short to say for certain, but at this point I would say they have what it takes IF their career continues strongly, they have the makings of HOF. I was using them to cite how few RBs I really think ought to make it to the hall.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Glad I sparked a discussion I think Martin ultimately is a "cusp" player, but I think that despite the numbers, it's been a long time since he's been mentioned in the top 5 at any given moment in time - I think that he would be considered in that class when he was with the Pats, where I think he was a little better and a bit more of a factor than he has been the Jets. He's either just-in, or just-out, of the HOF. I think Dillon will perform similarly. I don't think he'll suddenly be a top-5 guy every year and I don't think his performance will be quite as good as with the Bengals (that's peformance, not numbers) - that is I don't think we'll see him breaking out 250-yard games or anything like he did with the Bengals. But I think, provided the injury was an aberration, he'll be solid and should settle that position for them for the next 3 or 4 years and that's good for the Pats. That's why I thought the comparison to Martin seemed apt.It will be interesting to see if his peformance does level off in NE - with the Bengals he seemed to go from 200 to 45 yards back to 150 back to 47 depending on the opponent and the way the game played. I anticipate the Pats will prove a better balance compared to the bad pre-2003 Bengal teams he was on, and level off his numbers some (90-140 each game, vs. the wild swings).The question as a cynical Bengal fan I have to ask is how long will he truly be happy carry 15 to 20 times a game as might be the plan in NE.-QG
I think Martin ultimately is a "cusp" player, but I think that despite the numbers, it's been a long time since he's been mentioned in the top 5 at any given moment in time - I think that he would be considered in that class when he was with the Pats, where I think he was a little better and a bit more of a factor than he has been the Jets. He's either just-in, or just-out, of the HOF. I think Dillon will perform similarly. I don't think he'll suddenly be a top-5 guy every year and I don't think his performance will be quite as good as with the Bengals (that's peformance, not numbers) - that is I don't think we'll see him breaking out 250-yard games or anything like he did with the Bengals. But I think, provided the injury was an aberration, he'll be solid and should settle that position for them for the next 3 or 4 years and that's good for the Pats. That's why I thought the comparison to Martin seemed apt.It will be interesting to see if his peformance does level off in NE - with the Bengals he seemed to go from 200 to 45 yards back to 150 back to 47 depending on the opponent and the way the game played. I anticipate the Pats will prove a better balance compared to the bad pre-2003 Bengal teams he was on, and level off his numbers some (90-140 each game, vs. the wild swings).The question as a cynical Bengal fan I have to ask is how long will he truly be happy carry 15 to 20 times a game as might be the plan in NE.-QG2 years ago he sat the 4th quarter and Priest edged him to lead the NFL in rushingGlad I sparked a discussion
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
To be fair, Martin was neck and neck with Jerome Bettis until week eleven or twelve in 2001. Bettis suffered an injury, and Martin stormed ahead.In week 17, Priest Holmes entered the week with 1,438 yards and Martin had 1,463 yards. Holmes' Chiefs were out of the playoffs before the bye week (2-7), but the Jets regular season finale was a win and your in game. The Jets were behind in the fourth quarter, and to some extent abandonned the run. Ironically, the Jets were rooting for the Chiefs that day because a Chiefs win would have meant the Jets didn't need to win. The Chiefs lost (but Priest had a great day), the Jets won (but Martin didn't get the rushing title), the Raiders lost (and lost out on homefield in round two of the playoffs--where they played the infamous snow game against the Patriots). And Raiders fans probably thought the 53 yarder hit by John Hall (longest in the history of NAC) would be the worst FG they'd see all year
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Perhaps my perception of Martin is colored by his TD production, which hasn't been in the stratosphere for most of his career. Perhaps we should just get his career breakdown along with his league rankings for TDs, Yards, and Average Per Carry His numbers very well run ahead of the perception I have of him - I'll admit to a bit of a bias against the green guys as well as the blue guys who play in my state and don't acknowledge it. (I'm from Jersey) I guess I've always considerd Martin in the 2nd tier (my first tier is about 5 or so backs) for most of the years he's been there, though he's lasted longer than pretty much all the guys that were ahead of him on that basis during those given years (e.g. T. Davis)Perhaps the limited playoff success of the Jets during his career is coloring my thinking as well.Though it's fun that sort of a "throwaway" line in my message about Dillon turned into this. -QG
His numbers very well run ahead of the perception I have of him - I'll admit to a bit of a bias against the green guys as well as the blue guys who play in my state and don't acknowledge it. (I'm from Jersey) I guess I've always considerd Martin in the 2nd tier (my first tier is about 5 or so backs) for most of the years he's been there, though he's lasted longer than pretty much all the guys that were ahead of him on that basis during those given years (e.g. T. Davis)Perhaps the limited playoff success of the Jets during his career is coloring my thinking as well.Though it's fun that sort of a "throwaway" line in my message about Dillon turned into this. -QG
silentmark
Footballguy
I have been a D. Branch supporter since his rookie year. Could this be THE year with the Dillon addition ? Man I hope so ...FWIW I have Dillon & Rudi in a keeper and I have been waiting for this, only time will tell ...
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I'm suprised football minds are actually debating this. I will go further than anyone - not only will Curtis Martin be inducted into the HOF, but he will be in on his first ballot, with no debate.When he does his "farewell tour" and the misty eyes start reminiscing, his presence in the hall will be undoubted. The only thing missing from his resume is a Super Bowl, which has not prevented other players from getting into the HOF.Just to keep in mind, here's his rushing numbers from NFL.com:1995 New England Patriots 16 15 368 1487 4.0 49 14 11 80 1996 New England Patriots 16 15 316 1152 3.6 57 14 3 76 1997 New England Patriots 13 13 274 1160 4.2 70 4 8 46 1998 New York Jets 15 15 369 1287 3.5 60 8 2 69 1999 New York Jets 16 16 367 1464 4.0 50 5 9 84 2000 New York Jets 16 16 316 1204 3.8 55 9 8 61 2001 New York Jets 16 16 333 1513 4.5 47 10 9 77 2002 New York Jets 16 16 261 1094 4.2 35 7 5 54 2003 New York Jets 16 16 323 1308 4.0 56 2 5 53 TOTAL 140 138 2927 11669 4.0 70 73 60 600 Ater this year, Martin will have rushed for over 12G in yards in 10 seasons - an average of over 1200 rush yards a season for a decade is incredible. Also, in 9 years, he has missed 4 games. That is amazing given the injury history of the position. Curtis Martin defines the term "workhorse back." The only drawback to his numbers is that he did not score a lot of TDs, rarely hitting double digits on the year.
switz
Footballguy
Wow, thanks for the compliment
In all seriousness.
I think it will seriously depend on who is in his class for induction. If he is the only RB to come up, it's possible, but if he retires the same year as Faulk, I doubt it. Despite his being higher on the list of rushing yards, Faulk is viewed league wide as being the better player and having a greater impact on his team than Martin.
Plus Faulk has a ring
My bottom line, I have no doubts Martin is a very good RB, but in comparison to his contemporaries, the only thing that makes him better is his longevity. Sure he's averaged 1200 yards a season, and only missed 4 games, but look at what other RBs were doing at the same time until they got injured.TD = 1350/season until injuryEdge = 1600/season until injury, and he got 1300 last seasonFaulk = 1100/season, despite missing time to injury in 5 seasons, plus he averaged 620/season receivingLT = 1500/season rush, 500/season recPro-Football-Reference has this great compilation:forCMartAmong the league's all-time top 50Rushes: 9 Rushing yards: 11 Rushing TDs: 17t Yards from scrimmage: 13 Rush/Receive TDs: 36t Here's Ricky Watters:Among the league's all-time top 50Rushes: 13 Rushing yards: 15 Rushing TDs: 12 Yards from scrimmage: 11 Rush/Receive TDs: 17 very similar numbers, is he HOF? I mean there has to be something special about the back, or else it's not really a hall of FAME... just a hall of GOOD.But then again, Thurman Thomas made the HOF, so Martin likely will...
David Yudkin
Footballguy
This has been debated numerous times over the years I have been on the boards, and I agree 100%. However, there are no rules for considering and electing players, and this is certainly true for HOF induction in other sports as well.The example I use is Jim Rice. He was clearly the most feared player in the A.L. for several years and posted 12 great years. Yes, his numbers were not .350/50/150, but he was the best hitter in that timeframe in that league.In those 12 seasons, Rice was MVP and was Top 5 in the voting 6 times and an All-Star 8 times. Top 7 in average 6 times. Top 2 in SLG% 5 times. Top 5 in hits 5 times. Top 5 in RBI 7 times. League leader in HR 3 times.Back in the day, pitchers would intentionally walk Rice to pitch to Yaz (a HOF), Fisk (a HOF), Fredd Lynn (no slouch) or Dewey Evans (again, no slouch). Yet Rice has not gotten much support for the HOF and likely will not make it.Now let's look at Eddie Murray, who was easily elected to the HOF. Over a longer timeframe (21 years), Murray was Top 5 in average 3 times, Top 5 in RBI 5 times, never was Top 5 in hits, was Top 2 in SLG% once, was never in the Top 3 in HR in a full season (tied for league lead in a strike shortened season), and never hit more than 33 home runs.I am not saying Murray should not be in the HOF but his extra 5 years of padding his stats got him in with ease. Take away his 5 extra years of stats and his career numbers were worse than Rice. His only truly productive year in those 5 years was his last year with the Mets, and the last 4 years certainly another younger player on the roster could have matched or bettered his production.On a face-to-face comparison of the two players in their primes, by most accounts, Rice should have been in over Murray. But that's not what happened, and time will remember Murray as an uber superstar and Rice will go by the wayside.
I agree that Faulk will go in ahead of Curtis Martin, as would Emmitt. But, other than those 2, Curtis Martin is the 3rd most deserving RB that is currently active.I agree with others who believe Curtis Martin is a lock to make the HOF. He's just been too good for too long with little letdown. Lamont Jordan was a 2nd round pick but hasn't been able to beat out 30yo Martin for years. Martin to me has been a much more complete player than guys like Jerome Bettis or Eddie George.The point you miss is that the reason Martin deserves HOF consideration over many of the RBs you listed is precisely BECAUSE he was able to do it over a longer period of time. Terrell Davis and Edge and perhaps LT2 haven't been able to achieve that level of success over a long period time, so their status is questionable. It is not enough to be great over a 4 or 5 year period...you need to have a huge body of work, with 8-10 great years as a RB to get consideration, and Martin clearly qualifies.RE: Ricky Watters, he is done playing so his numbers can't get any better. Martin is still going strong and will continue to climb the charts over the next year or two, making the comparison seem unwarranted.RE: Thurman Thomas, he's not in yet but I'm puzzled by your suggestion that he might not belong. Recall he was the first RB since Jim Brown to lead the league in yards from scrimmage 4 years in a row. He also had 8 1,000 yard rushing seasons in a row, was league MVP, went to the Super Bowl 4 times, and had one of the best RB performances in a Super Bowl ever in Super Bowl XXV (where he should have easily been voted MVP). His case is much stronger than Martin's and I expect him to get in on his first try.I think it will seriously depend on who is in his class for induction. If he is the only RB to come up, it's possible, but if he retires the same year as Faulk, I doubt it. Despite his being higher on the list of rushing yards, Faulk is viewed league wide as being the better player and having a greater impact on his team than Martin.Plus Faulk has a ring
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
While I think Curtis Martin is a hall of famer (and actually deserves to be more than Bettis), I don't think it's going to be a layup for him necessarily.Switz brings up two exceedingly good points that are being dismissed by most of Martin's supporters:1) He'll be judged against his peers, not his overall numbers -- Glance at the current HOF inductees and their RELATIVE accomplishments for their individual eras far outweight their overall production in the history of the game. While Martin has been very very good to great for much of his career, can you honestly say he's ever been one of the best two or three backs at any point? Earlier in his career that honor would've gone to the likes of Emmitt, Barry and T.D., and that run has continued through the likes of Edge, Faulk, Holmes and Tomlinson.2) The NFL HOF limits entrants to a maximum of 5 per year -- At most, five players can be inducted into the HOF in a given year, and most years fewer than five are inducted. When he comes due, he will be up against a very impressive class of players (in the same time frame) and thus, he'll likely have to wait his turn.
Seasons among the league's top 5Rushes: 1995-2, 1998-3, 1999-2, 2001-4
Rushing yards: 1995-3, 1999-2, 2001-2
Rushing TDs: 1995-3, 1996-2, 2001-4t
Yards from scrimmage: 1995-5, 1999-5, 2001-4
Rush/Receive TDs: 1996-2
for comparison purposes, here is Jerome Bettis
Seasons among the league's top 5
Rushes: 1993-3, 1997-1, 2000-3
Rushing yards: 1993-2, 1996-3, 1997-3
Rushing TDs:
Yards from scrimmage: 1993-3, 1996-4, 1997-4
Rush/Receive TDs:
and here is Eddie George
Seasons among the league's top 5
Rushes: 1996-4, 1997-3, 1998-4, 2000-1, 2002-3
Rushing yards: 1996-5, 1997-5, 2000-3
Rushing TDs: 2000-3t
Yards from scrimmage: 1996-5, 1999-4, 2000-3
Rush/Receive TDs: 1999-3t, 2000-3t
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
Fair enough, I'll give him 1995 and 2001, but is that enough?
Seasons among the league's top 5
Rushes: 1995-2, 1998-3, 1999-2, 2001-4
Rushing yards: 1995-3, 1999-2, 2001-2
Rushing TDs: 1995-3, 1996-2, 2001-4t
Yards from scrimmage: 1995-5, 1999-5, 2001-4
Rush/Receive TDs: 1996-2
someone closer to the situation will be able to make a much stronger case for him than anyone of us probably could. But, I feel confident that he'll be a lock after another year or two to build on his resume. He may not get in on the first try, but I think he'll definitely get strong consideration.Terrell Davis was a top-3 RB for probably at least 3 or 4 years, but the brevity of his career hurts his chances. By comparison, Curtis Martin may not have been as great over a short period of time, but his sustained level of excellence and durability throughout his career is what makes him a very strong candidate, IMO.Longevity for a RB is much more impressive than longevity for most other positions. I don't think you can discount a RB who puts up 1,000 yards for 10-straight seasons. He was also a huge factor in the Patriots turnaround under Bill Parcells, as well as the Jets turnaround. He carried both teams, IMO.
rabidfireweasel
Footballguy
I will bet you whatever you like that he makes on no worse than his third year of eligibilty. I expect that he will make it on his second year. Like Carl Yastremski and Don Sutton, he is simply going to amass numbers that are too big to ignore. At some point- and he is very close to that point- sheer accumulation matters. To be very good for as long as he has in a sport as violent as football while being the focal point of the offense is going to gather him votes.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Can't forget 1999 - and he was second in the league in TDs in 1996. He had 14 each of his first two years and then a huge TD tailspin since then - especially while playing for the Jets.He might not be a first ballot HOFer if competing versus Marshal, but I have full confidence he will be in the year after Marshal if the two are on the same first ticket.In fact, I am thinking Martin ekes out an additional year and maybe two beyond Marshal (who has nothing left to play for if the Rams miss the Bowl this year) and that Marshal and Rice go in together, Martin gets in on his first ballot as there will be no other RBs with eligibility and as impressive a resume.Missing only 4 games at the RB position in 10 years (assuming he doesn't miss time this year) is REALLY impressive and, on its own, might deserve HOF consideration, even if Martin hadn't averaged 1200+ yards a season in his career. He has 70 (or 73) rushing TDs and 8 receiving TDs in his career - if he crests 90 total TDs in a ten+ year career, I think that will be enough TDs to make TDs a non-issue. Especially when you consider his place in the Jets' record books.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Interesting - and if he plays two more years, his total numbers will be very pretty. Let's also not forget his spotlight reel playing on the biggest stage of NYC, at the seocnd most publicly noticed position will get him the "popularity" vote.I think this has been as complete a hijack of a thread as I have ever seen, including staff hijack participation.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Agreed. Not to continue the hijack further BUT...all this talk has me wondering about Priest. You can't discount the enormity of his last three season, yet he hasn't come close to winning a bowl (whereas TD has two in his short period of dominance)...how much more does Holmes need to be a viable HOF candidate?
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
In short, zero.Priest is in simply because of his record setting rushing TDs and his incredible yards from scrimmage. If that record is broken before he ends up as eligible, the picture might change - but 25 rush TD seasons aren't particularly common.TD's most yards ever in a season, IMO, will land him in the HOF, too (along with the fact that he got Elway his first ring and Denver's first super bowl victory).
Marc, sounds like you're ready and willing to let everybody in. Gotta keep some people out, you know.
I don't think Priest is in yet, but if he keeps this up for another 3 or 4 more years it will be hard to keep him out. The rushing TD record is a great accomplishment and all, but a player doesn't make it into the HOF based on 1 or 2 seasons alone. At this point, I still think many people believe it is the system and the O-line that is a big factor in his success. The same could be said for Terrell Davis as well, and since they didn't play over a long period of time we don't really know how much was them or how much was just being in the right place at the right time.The same cannot be said for Curtis Martin, who has consistently proven himself on different teams with varying levels of surrounding talent.
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switz
Footballguy
DOH! Now I feel foolish, I had thought Thomas made it in last year.Regardless, I agree he will be a shoe in. But the comparison I was looking at was his overall numbers are very similar to Martin's overall numbers at first clance. And if that's what Martin will be judged by, then he will make it in.Thomas had so many _other_ things than total numbers going for him, as Aaron mentioned, his MVP, his 4 SBs, he was one of the RBs that turned that position into a receiving threat, which is often ignored, so in that respect he was game changing.My intention wasn't that Thomas doesn't belong, but that he doesn't belong ONLY due to his total career numbers, whereas all Martin has going for him IS his total career numbers.Interesting point on Thomas, in college he relegated Barry Sanders to bench duty
