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***Divisional Round Game Thread*** Baltimore at Pittsburgh (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jeff Pasquino
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Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Thanks, but I chalk this up to kind of a fluke. For one, there aren't many Ravens fans that post here often (we may be the smallest fan base in the NFL for a zillion reasons, and it stands to reason we are also the most rare on a MB). Secondly, it just so happens that the few Ravens fans who post here are some of their most level-headed. Trust me, the Ravens have the same % of idiots who follow them as any other team. If we had as many fans here as the Steelers/Vikes/Pack/Pats/Pokes you'd see a bunch of stupid posts from us too.fred_1_15301 said:Some classy ravens fans in this thread. Probably the classiest set of fans in this thread (including steeler fans.)
The_Man
Footballguy
Uruk-Hai said:Glad you survived the game, GB. I fear for The_Man's mental stability, thoughroadkill1292 said:These two teams have now played eight times in the last three years and the Stillers have won six of them. Somebody ought to remind T Sizzle about that before next year's games. Not much of a rivalry when one team wins all the time.Uruk-Hai said:Mustang Man said:); Flacco's resume is lacking them, though he made some strides in the regular season. But until he gets it done in a big spot, Joe's a level below.
He got happy feet something terrible in the 2nd half and sometimes looked like he was on drugs. The drops didn't help - and I don't ever want to hear TJ b*tch about not getting the ball again - but he did not play well. His pocket presence is lacking sorely and I don't know if that's something Flacco can develop. I suspect not.
I usually don't drink a lot and I never post during a game and I never ever drink a lot AND post during a game. All of which I did yesterday.
Ravens crapped the bed big time in the second half - very uncharacteristic for how they've played all season. Rice had zero fumbles - fumbles. Flacco had done a great job not throwing moronic INTs - throws a moronic INT. They just fell apart.
Had a great gameplan for the first half, but from what I remember it seemed like the Steelers stopped blitzing and got good pressure with 4 men and the Ravens never adjusted in the second half. Like the INT - the Ravens seemed to think Pittsburgh would have 8 in a box and so Flacco went through with the throw even though the reality is that Heap was totally bracketed by two defenders.
Huge respect to Suggs - when he got his big contract, a lot of Baltimore felt like he wasn't elite enough to be paid like that. He is for real.
Huge respect to the Steelers, too*, especially Ben - who I was defending in the Ben vs. Brady thread the other day. Talk about an elite player.
* except Hines Ward. How I hate him.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Whew! I had visions of you and about 60,000 others on top of the Key Bridge ready to jump.
I usually don't drink a lot and I never post during a game and I never ever drink a lot AND post during a game. All of which I did yesterday.
Ravens crapped the bed big time in the second half - very uncharacteristic for how they've played all season. Rice had zero fumbles - fumbles. Flacco had done a great job not throwing moronic INTs - throws a moronic INT. They just fell apart.
Had a great gameplan for the first half, but from what I remember it seemed like the Steelers stopped blitzing and got good pressure with 4 men and the Ravens never adjusted in the second half. Like the INT - the Ravens seemed to think Pittsburgh would have 8 in a box and so Flacco went through with the throw even though the reality is that Heap was totally bracketed by two defenders.
Huge respect to Suggs - when he got his big contract, a lot of Baltimore felt like he wasn't elite enough to be paid like that. He is for real.
Huge respect to the Steelers, too*, especially Ben - who I was defending in the Ben vs. Brady thread the other day. Talk about an elite player.
* except Hines Ward. How I hate him.
The_Man
Footballguy
The way my head feels today, that might have been a better option than passing out on the couch in front of the NFC game (which is what happened). Now going to run 12 miles in penance for my sins.Whew! I had visions of you and about 60,000 others on top of the Key Bridge ready to jump.
I usually don't drink a lot and I never post during a game and I never ever drink a lot AND post during a game. All of which I did yesterday.
Ravens crapped the bed big time in the second half - very uncharacteristic for how they've played all season. Rice had zero fumbles - fumbles. Flacco had done a great job not throwing moronic INTs - throws a moronic INT. They just fell apart.
Had a great gameplan for the first half, but from what I remember it seemed like the Steelers stopped blitzing and got good pressure with 4 men and the Ravens never adjusted in the second half. Like the INT - the Ravens seemed to think Pittsburgh would have 8 in a box and so Flacco went through with the throw even though the reality is that Heap was totally bracketed by two defenders.
Huge respect to Suggs - when he got his big contract, a lot of Baltimore felt like he wasn't elite enough to be paid like that. He is for real.
Huge respect to the Steelers, too*, especially Ben - who I was defending in the Ben vs. Brady thread the other day. Talk about an elite player.
* except Hines Ward. How I hate him.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Suggs is incredible. Total beast . I don't care who was blocking him yesterday , he's a big time player & one tough hombre
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
The Steelers ARE a "large market" team though. Not because Pittsburgh is a big city, but because their fan base is enormous. I'd bet they're one of the top 3 or 4 teams in the NFL in terms of allegience. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Steelers fan.I think Pitt/NE is CBS' dream matchup for the AFCCG.
Idiot Boxer
Footballguy
Juan Dixon is one of my favorite college hoops players of all time.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Well, at least you have some taste, GBIB
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
beerbarron said:
I can think of at least 4 AFCCGs theyve lost, just in the last 20 years. there's probably more i'm forgetting94 vs SD97 vs DEN01 and 04 vs Pats
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Didn't they also lose to the Raiders after the '76 season when Bradshaw was hurt? That was probably the best Steelers D of that whole era.beerbarron said:
HellToupee
Footballguy
that postbeerbarron said:
me as well
HellToupee
Footballguy
Raisers spanked them that gameDidn't they also lose to the Raiders after the '76 season when Bradshaw was hurt? That was probably the best Steelers D of that whole era.beerbarron said:
Wasn't that the season where both Franco and Rocky were both hurt and did not play in the playoffs?Raisers spanked them that gameDidn't they also lose to the Raiders after the '76 season when Bradshaw was hurt? That was probably the best Steelers D of that whole era.beerbarron said:
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Yep. Think Fuqua may have been injured as well. They were down to Harrison and the beer vendor.
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Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Pretty much. And I think the Yinzer D had like 5 shutouts that season.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
72 MIA76 OAK84 MIAbeerbarron said:I can think of at least 4 AFCCGs theyve lost, just in the last 20 years. there's probably more i'm forgetting94 vs SD97 vs DEN01 and 04 vs Pats
Various Steelers from the 70's teams have said that was their best team of the decade.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Stillers Jr.
Footballguy
Some call them PROPHETS
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I'm extending an invitation to all the Steelers fans who didn't think the officiating favored them to go to the Jets/Patriots game thread. Most of these people claim that whenever the Steelers wins a playoff game, of course someone will complain about the officiating. This is not true. People generally only complain about lopsided officiating when it actually occurs. If you go to the Jets/Patriot thread you will see that no one is complaining about officiating.
My favorite team is Indy. If Indy wins a game with a little help from the officials, I have no problem saying we were lucky to get the calls. Why is this so difficult for Pittsburgh fans? Why are they so adamant that the game was called evenly for both teams, whenever they win one of these games? I've always found this unusual.
My favorite team is Indy. If Indy wins a game with a little help from the officials, I have no problem saying we were lucky to get the calls. Why is this so difficult for Pittsburgh fans? Why are they so adamant that the game was called evenly for both teams, whenever they win one of these games? I've always found this unusual.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Maybe it's because every time the Steelers win a meaningful game, people blame it on the refs. The notion that there's some NFL consipracy is preposterous, yet posters here seem to perpetuate it. Whether it's simply fishing or they truly believe the NFL would risk undermining the integrity of their product just to see the Steelers win playoff games, I don't know. I'm completely numb to it by now, it's like someone who lives near the airport - after a while, you don't really hear the planes any more.
I'm sorry, but when the losing team only musters 125 yards in total offense then I don't see how the winning team got lucky to get calls to win the game. There were bad no calls against both teams. It wasn't one sided bad officiating. Sad thing is it's not even the Ravens fans who are crying about it.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
The Steelers got some calls in their favor. No doubt. But the thing is, the Ravens got just as many, whether it was the non-call on Suggs diving at Ben's knees or the fact that he used both hands and smacked Ben's head on the forced fumbled that was returned for a TD. Or many it was the many missed holding calls on Harrison and Woodley coming off the edges. How many people would be talking about that stuff had the Ravens won?People want to complain about the holding call on the punt return, but the fact is that there was holding. The guy didn't need to, but it's crystal clear that he had a handful of jersey on the replay. And in the end, the Steelers had more penalties and more yards than the Ravens.In the end, the Steelers made a lot of big plays in that game, and the Ravens couldn't run the ball and had less than 150 yards of total offense, yet people want to make it seem like the Steelers were just handed a win. The penalties, dropped passes, fumbles, and missed tackles by the Ravens weren't caused by the officials, and at least there have been a few Ravens' fans who've acknowledged that.Bring on the Jets.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I've known for a long time that Bebee stepped out of bounds and was the first guy to touch the ball. I don't get why so many Steelers fans have a problem admitting the obvious here. It doesn't change the fact that they outplayed the Ravens anyway and probably would have won even without the help.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
By that line of thinking, would you say that if your QB only had a QB rating of 22.6 in a playoff game then the other team must have been repeatedly shafted by the refs?
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I would think that this would really clue you in.
Not when that team's defense holds the other team to only 10 points and the winning team's rb sets a record for longest td run in a Superbowl. Not when the other team has the worst clock management in the history of the playoffs during that game. Not when the other team knows at some point the winning team is going to run a trick play and they let the winning team score on a trick play. NO!
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
Do you think that the 10 points were influenced by any of the referees decisions (maybe even just a little bit)?What people have to realize is that Pittsburgh is a great team with a great defense. It is difficult enough to move the ball on them. It is hard to make big plays against them. It is even more difficult when those big plays are negated by suspect calls.
They also have to realize that a football game usually has 4 big play (or less). If you take one or two of these plays, that will usually decide the game.
I suppose you were on of the posters who thought that wasn't holding on the punt return either. Even though picture evidence backs up that holding was the right call. Please list all the bad calls that you feel were so compelling that cost the Ravens a win even though they could not move the ball and kept turning the ball over and Flacco's receivers letting him down by dropping passes.
Can't be because of holding calls against Sea OL trying to control Harrison and Woodley and Hass throwing a pick right into Ike's hands. Can't be because Holmgren had no clue how to clock manage the game. Can't be because Seattle missed a FG.
timschochet
Footballguy
If the NFL really wanted to see a New England/Pittsburgh matchup for ratings, why were the Jets allowed to win today?
timschochet
Footballguy
I think you have your linebackers confused. If you're talking about 2005, perhaps you mean Porter and Haggans? Harrison played but did not start, IIRC.
Yes you are right. My bad ...too much drinking this weekend.I think you have your linebackers confused. If you're talking about 2005, perhaps you mean Porter and Haggans? Harrison played but did not start, IIRC.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
That was a horrible call. The defender was driving him backwards. I would say that 9 out of 10 times that would not be called. I saw that he had a bit of jersey, but I would say that 90% of the time the O-line will grab jersey when they are engaged with a pass rusher. The other 10% is when they completely whiff on their man.The defensive holding at the goal line was completely mind boggling. When was the last time you saw that one called, let alone in that situation.
I would like to see the defensive holding on the 4th and 20 that Pittsburgh converted. Just to see if it was as silly as the other two. They didn't replay it though. If Pittsburgh hadn't converted there and the penalty was as rediculous as the other two, then you really would have seen an uproar.
I also mentioned earlier in the post, that I would like to see which official made the call and if it was the same official. If it was 3 different officials then I would just say there was a bit of incompetence. If it was the same official then he needs to be investigated.
So good, you do admit holding was the right call on the return. Pouncey was getting held and could not get out to make his blocking assignment on the next level and that is why it was called near the goal line play. So these two calls and the call on Brown's catch (which was declined) are your complaints. Pretty weak argument for as much complaining as you are doing.
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DropKick
Footballguy
I'm about as neutral as you can get in that game...
Over the years, I've become cynical to officiating. Fixed NBA games... head scratching college and pro football calls. Receivers doing that stupid "throw the flag" gesture and sometimes selling it to the referee. I actually saw a guy do that in one of the bowl games and on replay, it was shown there was no contact (none at all). You know, we've almost become conditioned to certain things. After that punt return, I KNEW it was coming back. I didn't see anything... just knew it.
Was THAT holding? I don't think so... I understand he grasped the jersey and by strict definition that is a hold - but that isn't the way the call is usually made. If it were, you would have holding on every play. The receiver was in good position; squared up with the defender and, once engaged, ran over him. My first - and honest - reaction on the replay was FIFA worthy "flop". And then defensive holding on a running play in the key series of the game? What?
I'm not saying the Steelers wouldn't have won the game. and I don't think the Ravens deserved a thing. They were inept in many facets of the game. Arguably inept in all facets in the second half. But I do hate trying to watch a game for the sheer enjoyment and having flags fly on key plays for marginal (at best) infractions. There is a point where you have to let them play.
Over the years, I've become cynical to officiating. Fixed NBA games... head scratching college and pro football calls. Receivers doing that stupid "throw the flag" gesture and sometimes selling it to the referee. I actually saw a guy do that in one of the bowl games and on replay, it was shown there was no contact (none at all). You know, we've almost become conditioned to certain things. After that punt return, I KNEW it was coming back. I didn't see anything... just knew it.
Was THAT holding? I don't think so... I understand he grasped the jersey and by strict definition that is a hold - but that isn't the way the call is usually made. If it were, you would have holding on every play. The receiver was in good position; squared up with the defender and, once engaged, ran over him. My first - and honest - reaction on the replay was FIFA worthy "flop". And then defensive holding on a running play in the key series of the game? What?
I'm not saying the Steelers wouldn't have won the game. and I don't think the Ravens deserved a thing. They were inept in many facets of the game. Arguably inept in all facets in the second half. But I do hate trying to watch a game for the sheer enjoyment and having flags fly on key plays for marginal (at best) infractions. There is a point where you have to let them play.
The Jerk
Footballguy
It's always a losing battle to get into officiating discussions in the Shark Pool, and never more so when the Steelers are involved. The majority of posters seem to either not know or not care about the rules. And they also tend to confuse the frequency of officiating calls (i.e., more penalties being called) with one-sided officiating. In other words, the greater the presence of the officials on television due to a high number of penalties called and/or challenges made, the more likely you are to encounter the officiating conspiracy brigade. However, my favorite aspect of these discussions are the clairvoyance of posters who KNOW exactly how the games would have turned out had specific calls been made (or not made, depending on the situation). For example, the Seahawks would obviously have won Super Bowl XL if the offensive pass interference call on Jackson and the Locklear holding call not been made. Clearly, Shaun Alexander would have scored from the two yard line. Clearly, Randle El would not have completed his pass if the game situation was different. Clearly, the Steelers (and Seahawks, for that matter) would not have done anything different had the score been different later in the contest. Et cetera.
In the same way, clearly the Ravens would have won yesterday had the holding call not negated the punt return touchdown. Forget about the fact that Charley Casserly confirmed the correct call was made on the Sunday Jets-Patriots pregame show. Focus on the fact that these posters KNOW exactly how the rest of the game would have gone had calls been made differently. I love it. Never mind the history of Roethlisberger leading the Steelers to late TDs against the Ravens while trailing... the game would simply have ended 28-24 had the holding been ignored by the official.
Finally, to all of the posters in the Shark Pool who feel compelled to visit Steeler game threads more than 24 hours after the completion of the game apparently to attempt to negate Pittsburgh's accomplishments... please list any legitimate wins the Steelers have had in the past 40 years.
In particular, have the Steelers deserved any of their six Super Bowl championships?
How many of the Steelers 20 division titles in the past 39 seasons are legitimate?
How many Steelers should be removed from the Hall of Fame to account for the fact that some/many/all of these titles were not fairly earned?
For extra credit, please list who should have won the Super Bowl since 2001 to include the Patriot conspiracy theorists, too.
So far we know that:
2001 -- Raiders?? or Rams?? I can't remember who won the hypothetical matchup
2002 -- Bucs -- not too many complaints about Tampa Bay (that wouldn't have anything to do with their limited history of success, would it?)
2003 -- Colts -- because the Patriots interfered with the WRs all day in the AFCC
2004 -- Eagles -- it can't be the Steelers or Patriots, so they're all that's left
2005 -- Seahawks -- I mean EVERYONE knows this
2006 -- Colts
2007 -- Giants
2008 -- Cardinals -- we all know Al Michaels lied about Warner's midfield fumble being reviewed by the officials, and obviously a final-chance Hail Mary would have succeeded.
2009 -- Saints
Did I miss anything in 2002, 2006, 2007 or 2009? Does the fact that these are the least controversial championships in the past decade have anything to do with the fact that they are the only championship for two of the franchises and the first in a generation for the other two franchises?
In the same way, clearly the Ravens would have won yesterday had the holding call not negated the punt return touchdown. Forget about the fact that Charley Casserly confirmed the correct call was made on the Sunday Jets-Patriots pregame show. Focus on the fact that these posters KNOW exactly how the rest of the game would have gone had calls been made differently. I love it. Never mind the history of Roethlisberger leading the Steelers to late TDs against the Ravens while trailing... the game would simply have ended 28-24 had the holding been ignored by the official.
Finally, to all of the posters in the Shark Pool who feel compelled to visit Steeler game threads more than 24 hours after the completion of the game apparently to attempt to negate Pittsburgh's accomplishments... please list any legitimate wins the Steelers have had in the past 40 years.
In particular, have the Steelers deserved any of their six Super Bowl championships?
How many of the Steelers 20 division titles in the past 39 seasons are legitimate?
How many Steelers should be removed from the Hall of Fame to account for the fact that some/many/all of these titles were not fairly earned?
For extra credit, please list who should have won the Super Bowl since 2001 to include the Patriot conspiracy theorists, too.
So far we know that:
2001 -- Raiders?? or Rams?? I can't remember who won the hypothetical matchup
2002 -- Bucs -- not too many complaints about Tampa Bay (that wouldn't have anything to do with their limited history of success, would it?)
2003 -- Colts -- because the Patriots interfered with the WRs all day in the AFCC
2004 -- Eagles -- it can't be the Steelers or Patriots, so they're all that's left
2005 -- Seahawks -- I mean EVERYONE knows this
2006 -- Colts
2007 -- Giants
2008 -- Cardinals -- we all know Al Michaels lied about Warner's midfield fumble being reviewed by the officials, and obviously a final-chance Hail Mary would have succeeded.
2009 -- Saints
Did I miss anything in 2002, 2006, 2007 or 2009? Does the fact that these are the least controversial championships in the past decade have anything to do with the fact that they are the only championship for two of the franchises and the first in a generation for the other two franchises?
Stillers Jr.
Footballguy
So you're spending time writing paragraphs upon paragraphs just to get people on the internet to "admit" to something that's as arbitrary as it gets?To what end? I owe you nothing. You and I just have a differing opinion on what we saw.
monessen
Footballguy
The Steeler haters in these threads must be jealous, lacking in objectivity, myopic, just plain ignorant, or all of the above. Maybe they simply resent Steeler fans. They can't stand the Pgh fans packing visiting stadiums or seeing the team merchandise all over the country. I don't know. It's too bad they won't give the team its due.
In the past decade, the Colts, Patriots, and Steelers have been dominant because they are all just that good. They locate and work into their systems strong contributors from year to year to complement the star players. And the teams are well-coached with strong organizational commitments to winning. If that isn't clear, then bias is the only reason I can think of.
In the past decade, the Colts, Patriots, and Steelers have been dominant because they are all just that good. They locate and work into their systems strong contributors from year to year to complement the star players. And the teams are well-coached with strong organizational commitments to winning. If that isn't clear, then bias is the only reason I can think of.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I consider myself an objective football fan. If the Steelers folded tomorrow I wouldn't care except for the loss of a storied franchise as an NFL fan. But I'd get over it.
The Steelers got the benefit of many questionable calls in their Super Bowl against Seattle. I don't think any objective fan sees it differently.
The Steelers did NOT get the benefit of crazy, questionable calls in the game against Baltimore. I think the refs were too visible in that game, but they were pretty even in their meddling. Some Steelers calls came later in the game, but early on I thought they were helping Baltimore more.
The Steelers are going to be scrutinized for the ref calls because of that Super Bowl. But that doesn't mean it's always valid. The Ravens fell apart in the third quarter because their offense got scared and the Steelers D smelled blood. That's why they lost. Don't blame the refs.
The better team won.
The Steelers got the benefit of many questionable calls in their Super Bowl against Seattle. I don't think any objective fan sees it differently.
The Steelers did NOT get the benefit of crazy, questionable calls in the game against Baltimore. I think the refs were too visible in that game, but they were pretty even in their meddling. Some Steelers calls came later in the game, but early on I thought they were helping Baltimore more.
The Steelers are going to be scrutinized for the ref calls because of that Super Bowl. But that doesn't mean it's always valid. The Ravens fell apart in the third quarter because their offense got scared and the Steelers D smelled blood. That's why they lost. Don't blame the refs.
The better team won.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
this is a good posting. Obviously Chaz and a few others can't get over sb 40
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Don't forget Roadkill. He's good people too.Idiot Boxer said:
monessen
Footballguy
I understand your thinking about the dubious calls that largely went Pgh's way in the SB vs. the Seahawks. Yet Pittsburgh had to win at Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and Denver to reach that SB game. Not too shabby. Some of the key Seahawks did not play well that day, most notably Jeramy Stevens who had drops. Perhaps Joey Porter got in his head. Shaun Alexander was about as explosive against the Pgh D as Emmitt Smith was against them (49 yds rushing) for Dallas in the infamous '96 Super Bowl game. Bettis rumbled on, though the Seahawk defense likely knew it was coming. Pittsburgh was still the better team over a gallant Seattle squad.If the Jets pull off what the Steelers did a few years ago, that will be quite amazing. And they'd deserve the credit for sure.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
The part that I don't get is that you seem to be admitting that the call on the punt return was by definition a hold. Then you say it shouldn't have been called? Is that because it benefit the steelers? What if it benefit the ravens? Would you honestly be saying the same thing. That call to me looked pretty obvious. The defensive holding against the ravens on the other hand was a bad call in my opinion. Of course that could have impacted the game and we will never really know. The part that frustrates steelers fans is that there were several missed calls and bad calls against both teams but people will ignore the ones favoring the ravens. I get that this is a result is sb 40(which I admit definitely favored the steelers). I consider myself pretty objective as well and truly believe that the steelers/ravens game was horribly officiated but in both directions. On the other hand, I have no problem admitting that the steelers got the majority of calls in sb 40. That doesn't mean that I believe there was a fix.DropKick said:
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