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Do "dawn" and "don" rhyme? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Radical Larry
- Start date
Harry Manback
Footballguy
Dawn = don = lawn = fawn = gone = wonton
Mary = marry = Larry = Harry = hairy
Mary/marry <> merry
Very = merry = cherry
Y'all = fall = ball = tall
Stock = stalk = walk = balk = chalk
Did I miss any?
Mary = marry = Larry = Harry = hairy
Mary/marry <> merry
Very = merry = cherry
Y'all = fall = ball = tall
Stock = stalk = walk = balk = chalk
Did I miss any?
Harry Manback
Footballguy
I submit that your geographical stereotyping is wrong, because I've only ever lived in the Boston area and the only thing I disagree with you about is marry/Mary <> merry.Aaron Rudnicki said:OK I'll admit that there are people in this country that had the misfortune of living in certain places where there is some sort of strange collective compulsion to over exaggerate the vowel sound in "dawn". The kinds of places where you spend 4 or 5 months out of the year worrying about salting your walk way and chipping ice off your windshield with a rock. They're still wrong but I can see it happening. But this whole 'hairy' doesn't sound exactly like 'Harry' is insane.Who was the guy that did all the Cubs games? Harr-E Carey?
Otis
Footballguy
Thank god Hoart picked this one up and is running with it. Fine work, sir.In what solar system is there not a difference between harry (har-ree) and hairy (hair-ree)?http://www.thefreedictionary.com/harryhttp://www.thefreedictionary.com/hairyAaron Rudnicki said:OK I'll admit that there are people in this country that had the misfortune of living in certain places where there is some sort of strange collective compulsion to over exaggerate the vowel sound in "dawn". The kinds of places where you spend 4 or 5 months out of the year worrying about salting your walk way and chipping ice off your windshield with a rock. They're still wrong but I can see it happening.
But this whole 'hairy' doesn't sound exactly like 'Harry' is insane.
Who was the guy that did all the Cubs games? Harr-E Carey?
They're very close but look at the pronunciation. Not the same. Don and Dawn aren't even close. ahhhh<>awwww
I can no longer distinguish the fishermen from the fish in here...
bostonfred
Footballguy
I have less of an issue with this one, because if you emphasized the hair in hair-ee i would be more likely to think you meant that someone had a lot of hair. But whether I heard you say harry or hairy, I would still use context to figure out what you meant, and I don't feel any impulse or obligation to make one sound different from the other. So for any practical purpose, they're identical words.
gianmarco
Footballguy
This thread ceased being about rhyming LONG ago.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Ha(ve) ree = Hair reesame vowel sound anyway. nothing like the dawn/don debacle.
Last edited by a moderator:
DoubleG
Footballguy
Someone early on suggested changing the wording to "are they homphones" - which is the argument. All the people that live in northeastern part of the country are voting YES - all the people that don't talk through their nose (i.e. speak American English correctly) are voting NO. I presume several from the Mass. area are also making sure all their alliai vote as well to make it look closer than it is.Next they'll all start asking everyong to say "soda" and root for the Celtics against the Heat. Ever since the Pats lost that Superbowl, those new englanders have been all pissy. Trying to destroy the English language one poll at a time is simply part of their plan of spite on the rest of the unssuspecting nation. Well, I for one, wont stand for it. You don't like the language - fine, move somewhere else then. American English, baby - love it or leave it, but don't infect us with your NewEnglabonics. That's right - go drink your SODA and drink it till DAWN (awe) with your friend Don (on). 
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
Agree that it's nothing like Don/Dawn but Hairy/Harry don't have the exact same vowel sound. You're not saying Harry properly.Ha(ve) ree = Hair reesame vowel sound anyway. nothing like the dawn/don debacle.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
It's exactly like the dawn/don debacle. You're just one of them now.
do you pronounce Harry like Harrrrrrrr eeeee?what does the first syllable in Harry sound like in your world?sounds exactly like Hair to me.It's exactly like the dawn/don debacle. You're just one of them now.
if there is a difference, it's far too subtle for me to pick it up I guess.Agree that it's nothing like Don/Dawn but Hairy/Harry don't have the exact same vowel sound. You're not saying Harry properly.
Harry was a hairy dude.
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
That's the upstate new york talking.do you pronounce Harry like Harrrrrrrr eeeee?what does the first syllable in Harry sound like in your world?sounds exactly like Hair to me.It's exactly like the dawn/don debacle. You're just one of them now.
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
Take it down to just "air". In Harry it's just a little above that.if there is a difference, it's far too subtle for me to pick it up I guess.
spin-off poll created
Otis
Footballguy
But you concede they sound different.
Harry Manback
Footballguy
You do realize New England was colonized before any other parts of the USA, and if anyone is speaking "incorrectly" it's you inbred folks from down under.Someone early on suggested changing the wording to "are they homphones" - which is the argument. All the people that live in northeastern part of the country are voting YES - all the people that don't talk through their nose (i.e. speak American English correctly) are voting NO. I presume several from the Mass. area are also making sure all their alliai vote as well to make it look closer than it is.Next they'll all start asking everyong to say "soda" and root for the Celtics against the Heat. Ever since the Pats lost that Superbowl, those new englanders have been all pissy. Trying to destroy the English language one poll at a time is simply part of their plan of spite on the rest of the unssuspecting nation. Well, I for one, wont stand for it. You don't like the language - fine, move somewhere else then. American English, baby - love it or leave it, but don't infect us with your NewEnglabonics. That's right - go drink your SODA and drink it till DAWN (awe) with your friend Don (on).
Otis
Footballguy
No.Harry sounds like Larry sounds like Carry
Hairy sounds like hair-ee sounds like air-ree sounds like care-ree
Just because you're a mod on the internet doesn't mean you can just ignore the letter "i"
Otis
Footballguy
You're doing it wrong.do you pronounce Harry like Harrrrrrrr eeeee?what does the first syllable in Harry sound like in your world?It's exactly like the dawn/don debacle. You're just one of them now.
Ha(ve) ree = Hair ree
same vowel sound anyway. nothing like the dawn/don debacle.
sounds exactly like Hair to me.
poll results clearly suggest otherwise
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
Those all sound the same. How the heck are you saying Larry?
dgreen
Footballguy
I believe they say La-ree or maybe Lar-ree.So I guess they start "carry" with a "car" sound. "Would you please car-ree this to the other room."
Harry is a nickname for Harold (pronounced "hair old"). Why would you suddenly change the pronunciation of the Har in Harold when going with the nickname?
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
How do you pronounce Harold then?
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
Harry Manback
Footballguy
I think I get it. You pronounce Harry and Larry in that haughty, pompous, pretentious way rich folks speak in the old movies. "this caviar is simply mahvelous hahrry."
sometimes, denying it's shtick is the best form of shtick
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
Nope.
bostonfred
Footballguy
That's not really the debate here, Fatlock. I conceded a long time ago that people make different sounds. I don't concede that they're correct to do so. With don vs. dawn, some people say them the same, some people think i pronounce dawn correctly but don't have enough of a nasal dahn for the word "don". New Yorkers, on the other hand, pronounce dawn as something akin to doe-wun, while pronouncing don similarly to me. So I contend that my way - saying them the same - is both aesthetically and functionally preferable. I have no problem interpreting dahn or doe-un as a poorly accented attempt at saying dawn or don. The people who contend that there is a difference have complained on more than one occasion that they got confused. Guess who has the problem here? Hint: it's not the people who say them the same. I understand that the words are spelled differently and mean different things. The fact that linguisticographers came up with a word like homophone suggests that this is an acceptable part of language. But just because they were pronounced differently in the original languages from which we adopted them doesn't mean we should continue to do it. It's vestigial, like my appendix, or the part of your brain that knows when to stop gambling. It existed at one time but no longer appears to serve a purpose. With Harry and hairy, we have a similar issue - some people say them the same, others say them differently. But there are a couple key differences. One is that nobody gets confused in any scenario. Not even Harry Manback. Another is that I think, if someone deliberately put emphasis on the air sound in hairy, it could be interpreted as hairy instead of Harry. But I don't think that they have any obligation to do so, and I don't think Harry needs to be pronounced differently to get the point across, so I would encourage new learners of proper American English to pronounce them as homophones.
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
tribecalledjeff
Footballguy
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
Like Harry, but replace the -ry with -old.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
I defy you to defend this.
Finless
Footballguy
Not even close, GinoHa(ve) ree = Hair reesame vowel sound anyway. nothing like the dawn/don debacle.
Finless
Footballguy
I think I'm understanding the Don (dahhn) thing. I used to date a girl from Chicago. She'd say Dahhn instead of Don.
Do you same freaks say aahn instead of on? I remember it rubbing off on me and thinking what the hell am I saying right now.
Hey Marge would ya turn the lights aahn?
Do you same freaks say aahn instead of on? I remember it rubbing off on me and thinking what the hell am I saying right now.
Hey Marge would ya turn the lights aahn?
bostonfred
Footballguy
Fin - this is how Aaron thinks normal people talk. Jim11's vision of America is less frightening.
lol
bostonfred
Footballguy
Exhibit A:
To his first point, we don't all agree on what Don sounds like, because Aaron says Dawn like I do but pronounces Don as Daan, while Otis pronounces Don like I do but pronounces Dawn doe-uhn. And that's precisely the issue. Someone who thinks they're "supposed to be" pronounced different gets confused. I don't. Nobody who correctly pronounces them the same gets confused. We all know what you mean and learn to deal with your sucky accents.Unless I'm mistaken, I think we all agree on what "Don" sounds like.The real disagreement is with the pronunciation of "Dawn," and there will never be a consensus because it absolutely depends on where you live. I had to go to Boston for work several years ago, and a guy there kept raving about this hot new intern "Don" ...
bostonfred
Footballguy
It really isn't. This poll is a sham. The different mispronunciations of Dawn or Don have all been lumped in together under "no, they don't sound the same". Which means that the Chicago style Daan and the New Yawrk style Dawwwwn are really a couple of minority opinions as opposed to one larger majority opinion. And when you look at the posters on each side, it becomes even more clear that I have both quantity and quality on my side.shuke said:
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
How else can you pronounce Don? My relatives in Mass would say "McDawnOwlds" but everyone outside that area knows how ridiculous that Mass accent is. Don has a "ahhh" in it. Dahhhn. It sounds nothing like Dawn (awww). The same sound it in the word "pot". It is not pronounced "pawt" it's "pahhht" with an "ahhh" sound. As in "open up and say ahhh".http://www.thefreedictionary.com/DonExhibit A:To his first point, we don't all agree on what Don sounds like, because Aaron says Dawn like I do but pronounces Don as Daan, while Otis pronounces Don like I do but pronounces Dawn doe-uhn. And that's precisely the issue. Someone who thinks they're "supposed to be" pronounced different gets confused. I don't. Nobody who correctly pronounces them the same gets confused. We all know what you mean and learn to deal with your sucky accents.Unless I'm mistaken, I think we all agree on what "Don" sounds like.
The real disagreement is with the pronunciation of "Dawn," and there will never be a consensus because it absolutely depends on where you live. I had to go to Boston for work several years ago, and a guy there kept raving about this hot new intern "Don" ...
I made sure he was talking about a female, and finally, only after he WROTE her name did I realize it was "Dawn" he was saying.
Now, I live only one state over from this guy, yet our dialect is completely different.
click the sound over and over until your ear can pick it up. Don Don Don (keep clicking) Don Don Don. Train yourself to hear how it should sound.
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