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Do you agree with Bill Maher here? A pole (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Captain Cranks
- Start date
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I agreed with him until he brought up Trump. It was a great monologue until the last part. Therefore, I don't know how to answer the poll.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Biden/Agree.
I agree 100% with what Maher said out loud. The Democratic party is on the wrong trajectory and is becoming irrelevant. It's as if they're deliberately trying to lose elections. I know they're not, but if they wanted to deliberately tank their own party I don't see what they'd be doing much differently.
I also agree with what Maher didn't say out loud but said very clearly by omission. The Democratic party is also our best hope for preserving liberal democracy, and it's not worth engaging with people like Trump, MTG, that Boebert person, wheelchair orgy guy, the disheveled drunk guy with one too many shirts on, etc. The GOP as it currently stands just needs to be reformed from within or defeated from without.
I agree 100% with what Maher said out loud. The Democratic party is on the wrong trajectory and is becoming irrelevant. It's as if they're deliberately trying to lose elections. I know they're not, but if they wanted to deliberately tank their own party I don't see what they'd be doing much differently.
I also agree with what Maher didn't say out loud but said very clearly by omission. The Democratic party is also our best hope for preserving liberal democracy, and it's not worth engaging with people like Trump, MTG, that Boebert person, wheelchair orgy guy, the disheveled drunk guy with one too many shirts on, etc. The GOP as it currently stands just needs to be reformed from within or defeated from without.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
who is wheelchair orgy guy? 
bigbottom
Footballguy
Fair. But as I’ve said before, Maher is so right on so many things, when he says something you disagree with, perhaps it’s worth taking a moment to consider the point. Put another way, for all the people on one team who love posting clips of him going after the other team and how spot on he is with his takes, maybe he might be similarly on point when he flames your team as well. Not saying he’s always correct 100% of the time, but he’s certainly more correct by a country mile than every other talking head opinion person on television
rockaction
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/madison-cawthorn-orgy-washington-dc-perversion-b2045133.html?amp
For those who watch The Boys, it’s like Herogasm, except for pasty out of shape politicians.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
This is how I see it too. During the Trump admin he was the liberals' darling who Trumpers hated. Now he's turned his sights on the woke left and I see him quoted on Fox News as if he's their boy now. However, his politics haven't changed over this time and he calls out BS on both sides. If you find yourself disagreeing with him, there's a good chance you're too close to the fringe on that topic.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Agreed. The GOP is such a clown show right now that the Democrats should be lapping them on a regular basis, but they aren't, and I think liberals like Maher want to run their head through a wall because he knows it. The Democrats' obsession with playing identity politics and going off the rails with certain social issues has caused a lot of people, many of whom want to support them, to run away from them. It's why people like me refuse to vote for either party right now.
Take Roe vs. Wade. I still hate what the Supreme Court did, but while it is easy to solely blame the GOP and the conservative judges, the Democrats have to get some of the blame as well in the pie chart of blame. They have lost far too many elections that should have been layups, and this is the result. Actions and words have consequences, and we are seeing that happen in real time. And the sad thing is, they don't even see it. It is much easier to just point the finger and pretend that the "other side" is all to blame. The Republicans do it as well, and it's just as gross. Hypocrites and liars, all of them.
rockaction
Footballguy
Not when it comes to his views about religion. He's on the American fringe in that respect, and it colors his worldview, which is completely secular.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Of course, that is how the media works. When a member of the GOP bags on their own party CNN loves it.
Mahar just seems disgusted with the direction of the Dem party that he belongs to, he is not alone. Right now the party is too fragmented.
It is just sad that we followed Trump with Biden who is equally as bad in different ways.
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Snotbubbles
Footballguy
To continue on with the Jan. 6th hearings in hopes that the Democrats can prevent Trump from running again isn't something that I view as a winning issue this November or in 2024. If anything, it will galvanize Republicans and will ensure that Trump will throw his support behind a candidate (say a DeSantis) which IMO will almost certainly assure a Republican President (with probably a Republican controlled House and Senate) in 2024. The Democrats won in 2020 because people voted as a referendum against Trump. Democrats in the races since 2020 have tried to use the "he's a Trump guy or Trump clone" in state races and it doesn't work. Being a Trump guy and being Trump are not the same. Why remove that Trump carrot at the end of the stick for voters? I think it's a bad move.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Nail on the head for me. 2012 - 2020 was an insta-Team Blue vote for me because I'm so disgusted by team red. Now I just want to sit out the game.Agreed. The GOP is such a clown show right now that the Democrats should be lapping them on a regular basis, but they aren't, and I think liberals like Maher want to run their head through a wall because he knows it. The Democrats' obsession with playing identity politics and going off the rails with certain social issues has caused a lot of people, many of whom want to support them, to run away from them. It's why people like me refuse to vote for either party right now.
Take Roe vs. Wade. I still hate what the Supreme Court did, but while it is easy to solely blame the GOP and the conservative judges, the Democrats have to get some of the blame as well in the pie chart of blame. They have lost far too many elections that should have been layups, and this is the result. Actions and words have consequences, and we are seeing that happen in real time. And the sad thing is, they don't even see it. It is much easier to just point the finger and pretend that the "other side" is all to blame. The Republicans do it as well, and it's just as gross. Hypocrites and liars, all of them.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Well, he's right about that too. The world is slowly catching up, as they always do.
Eta - you're right though. It's still a fringe view.
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Captain Cranks
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
If you listen carefully, he never says he wants the Democrats to win the election. He wants them to "win the Trump issue," which in his words means preventing him from running. He doesn't say a thing about whether that will help or hurt Democrats. I think he's starting with the big stuff like getting Trump gone and then he'd move on to election strategies for Democrats later.
rockaction
Footballguy
You said in eight words what I said in a bloviated paragraph. He wants Trump gone, first and foremost.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
He said that’s what he wants - how do you disagree with what he wants? His point is there’s others they can reach if they don’t focus on eating their own faces off.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Actually, I think his point was to show why Democrats aren’t winning in a lot of places and with some groups. Just my take.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I hadn't thought about it that way, but Herogasm might be the thing that finally replaces the Mos Eisley cantina as my go-to metaphor for "collection of weirdos and freaks."
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I don’t watch a lot of talking heads but I find this hard to believe. My impression is that Maher’s opinions rarely hold up to scrutiny. Haven’t watched this one though.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
As opposed to when? Outside of coalescing around a major threat when has the democratic party been unified on anything?
bigbottom
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
None of this was suggested by Maher. He wants to win the Trump issue which is to say that man never see another elected position in this country ever again and establish that what happened can never happen again. If that means "losing" in November so be it. For a great many, there's more to elections than party.
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Summer Wheat
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Because going after Trump for what he did on January 6 is more important than winning or losing elections.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
It’s an 8-min clip. Maher says a ton of stuff in that clip. What exactly are we supposed to agree or disagree with? What are the main points you based the pole on?
timschochet
Footballguy
I agree with just about every specific point he made. The one about Bernie and pot especially made a lot of sense.
But again, so much of this is peripheral stuff to me. Sure the Democrats get too wokey at times. Sure the leftist elements can be ridiculous. But IMO the Democrats are on the right side on almost all of the important issues of my lifetime: abortion, guns, immigration, black issues, gay issues, helping the poor, and most important of all, climate change. So I will continue to support them no matter how crazy the fringes can get (so long as, unlike the Republicans, they don’t allow the crazies to take over.)
But again, so much of this is peripheral stuff to me. Sure the Democrats get too wokey at times. Sure the leftist elements can be ridiculous. But IMO the Democrats are on the right side on almost all of the important issues of my lifetime: abortion, guns, immigration, black issues, gay issues, helping the poor, and most important of all, climate change. So I will continue to support them no matter how crazy the fringes can get (so long as, unlike the Republicans, they don’t allow the crazies to take over.)
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
The main theme which is that the democrats aren't doing a good job of representing most people, thus forcing them to look for other representation.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
The bolded is the problem, not because they're on the right side of those issues, but they're making it seem like everyone else's issues are secondary. Also, people are sick of the Democrats' solution of throwing money at the problem.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I don't watch many either - just ones I think are funny as well - Maher, Jon Stewart, etc..
IMO Maher gets a lot of big ideas right, but this year is lacking a little bit with details and stats in his New Rules (maybe it's always been that way and I am just noticing them more as I learn more about topics?). For example a couple weeks ago his bit on violent media. I agree with the general premise and him pointing out how we don't care about showing violence to kids, but he was way off using violent media as a big 4 thing for mass shooters - I have never seen a high correlation with that and mass shooters (around 7-8% only, if I remember right). I felt similar with his New Rule about LGBTQ in the last month.
Funny how you mention immigration, which he specifically called out early in his monologue by pointing out that those most affected by Biden's policies on it are turning against the Democrats. Whether you think we should allow more immigration or not, clearly the way Biden is going about it is wrong. Only the fringe left thinks he's doing it right.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
It’s hard to imagine disagreeing with that. Dems seem to be on a mission to alienate the middle 80% of voters.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
It feels like a lot of people in this forum don't read anything. They're getting their news from John Oliver, Bill Maher, YouTube, and so on.
There's nothing wrong with that sort of thing as part of a balanced intellectual diet. But when all you eat is highlights of Jimmy Kimmel, how can you possibly even read, let alone follow and critically engage with, a 200+ page judicial opinion?
timschochet
Footballguy
I’ve always been on the fringe when it comes to immigration issues. I acknowledge that fact. My view is not in the majority and probably never will be. That being said I dispute that it’s a “left” view. My position, particularly on illegal immigration, is in keeping with my fundamental views on libertarianism and support of capitalism, quite the opposite of left.
timschochet
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Bad example there, GB. I feel like I am above average in intelligence, read more than average, attempted to read the SC ruling and went crosseyed and had a headache after about 10pages.
Yeah, you're like the liberals pushing the term "Latinx." The people you're actually trying to rename don't want it but you push it anyways.
timschochet
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
ZADO
Footballguy
While i laugh and nod yup now more than i ever did before (Maher has been giving it to both sides nicely) i also know that when he says things about the right that make me uncomfortable ,its because i know deep down inside, that i have to begrudgingly agree with him. He`s been on fire this year.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Not sure where that perception is coming from, but it doesn't seem to be the case with Biden or more progressive idealists like Warren or Sanders. Their inability to pass broad legislation like expanding health care or the child tax credits is down to the reticence of conservative democrats. Not the ultra-liberal "woke" types.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
The interesting thing is that many who have consistently watched him over the years have said he hasn't changed his stances much at all. Now the right has gravitated to him more this year though. Is it just because it's not the low hanging Trump fruit every week?
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Being a liberal necessarily entails taking positions that aren't popular. Progress is hard for a reason; the conservative base position is essentially to do nothing, thus from a purely strategic standpoint, liberals are fighting an uphill battle before the fight even begins.
As a politics junkie, I know that many of the issues some of the more progressive members of my party push aren't going to play well in the places I grew up, even if they're absolutely the right things to do for marginalized people. Should we ignore doing the right thing, to offend less people, in order to win more elections? It's an age old question, but for many of the reasons that lead me to being a liberal in the first place, I'm ok with the fact that my party may lose power occasionally for standing up for the voiceless when it's not popular.
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I haven't had time to watch the clip yet but wanted to say this is a good way to set up a poll and ask a a question to encourage discussion.
Good job.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I've said in threads that I think a lot of the race issues would be "fixed" by simply addressing poverty and education issues. Since a higher proportion of black America are affected by such things, it would help them more than other groups, BUT it would also help poor white areas who are left behind and hurting in similar ways. Where the Democrats go wrong, which I believe is what Cranks is getting at, is in general they approach it from a black/white issue and talk about the black communities more for various reasons.
