Do you personally agree with taking down confederate monuments? (2 Viewers)

[MarvinTScamper]

I can't wait to see the rallies in support of taking down the pyramids and the Sphinx. 

 

[GregR]

I can't wait to see the rallies in support of taking down the pyramids and the Sphinx. 

If only I'd thought to make a post that there's no reason to take down something for commemorating something that no one thinks it is commemorating.

 

[Quez]

No, it's not. Get them off of government grounds. Period.

You want to have a statue of RE Lee in your yard? Go for it.

So should we change the name of every school, road, etc. Named after Robert Lee?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

As much as I like to clown around about the North making the South their #####....I don't see the point in removing the statues now just because (to generalize) the Northerners then didn't seem concerned with total subjugation of Southerners who fought.  IIRC, there wasn't war crime tribunals, there weren't Southerners hung for treason. To me, it doesn't seem like the Federal Government wanted to eradicate the memory of the South ala the Allies did with the Nazi Party or Emperor worship post WWII. 

Where I do think there is a problem today is in the co-opting (generally speaking) of Southern Civil War ideals by hate groups today. I think if you're a proud "Son of the South" you need to be at the tip of the spear in shouting these people down for trying to glom onto and corrupt what (I'm assuming) you hold sacred. 

Of course they didn't - most of them at the time were racist #######s, too. Hence the revisionist history with a century of romanticizing the Antebellum South and d!ckheads like Stonewall Jackson & Beauregard

 

[squistion]

2 hours ago, Quez said:

I think it's opening up a can of worms.  All those old guys have baggage.  Unless we are going to erase everyone's name who owned a slave.  Adios, Jefferson.  Goodbye Washington, and even Lincoln.

Wait. You think Lincoln owned slaves?

Quez is not exactly a big student of history, is he?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

So should we change the name of every school, road, etc. Named after Robert Lee?

Not in my opinion - just get the likenesses (statues & portraits) out of government property.

 

[[scooter]]

I can't wait to see the rallies in support of taking down the pyramids and the Sphinx. 

What is wrong with your brain?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Perhaps there is a compromise.  Simply place another statue nearby, in the apparent gaze of the current Confederate one.  Have this statue noticeably grander in scale.  Have it be Harriet Tubman.  You can substitute MLK if that is your predilection. 

 

[Capella]

I can't wait to see the rallies in support of taking down the pyramids and the Sphinx. 

I don't think those are in America 

 

[MarvinTScamper]

If only I'd thought to make a post that there's no reason to take down something for commemorating something that no one thinks it is commemorating.

I was supporting your argument, actually  

What is wrong with your brain?

Nothing.  Of note is these were people defending the way of life of their neighbors and friends. They were supporting something that had been normal for about 4000+ years.  They weren't rolling across the north murdering Jews, killing non Romans.  I don't support what they were standing for, but the comparisons to Hitler are laughable. 

I don't know why they were allowed to be put up in the first place, but they were meant to honor the people who led them in a time of great strife, not the principles they stood for. 

 

[MarvinTScamper]

I don't think those are in America 

:applause:

 

[GregR]

If only I'd thought to make a post that there's no reason to take down something for commemorating something that no one thinks it is commemorating.

I was supporting your argument, actually  

Ah, sorry.  That's how sad some of these arguments end up being that I could imagine someone might say that and actually think they were making a point somehow.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Why do people post Qs like this and not make them a poll?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

What comes to my heart and head when I see them is not necessarily what was intended by those who placed these items there.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

If they are brought down do we put up something in their place? 

 

[Wrigley]

It's part of our history, why run from it?

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

So should we change the name of every school, road, etc. Named after Robert Lee?

Yes

 

[Dedfin]

What is wrong with your brain?

 He's so wrong about so many things, it's hilarious to read his posts.  I love them!

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

It's part of our history, why run from it?

Nobody's running from history.  Some of us are just opposed to paying tribute to the Confederate leaders.

There's even a couple of nice, big pictures of Lee in the textbook I use.

 

[MarvinTScamper]

Slaves were beaten, raped repeatedly, and hung in front of their friends and family. Mothers would kill their infant babies so they wouldn't have to endure that life. Families were ripped apart when slave owners felt like selling one of them off. The comparisons to Hitler in terms of how the people he persecuted were treated don't seem at all out of line. Your responses make me think you don't actually know very much about what it was like to be a slave. 

"Defending the way of life" is a startlingly ignorant way to whitewash the human rights catastrophe that slavery was. You should stop posting about this. 

And none of that has anything to do with what i said.  Please continue with your hysteria while putting words in my mouth. 

 

[Dedfin]

Yes

I'd be in favor of renaming the streets "Lee was a traitor St"

 

[[scooter]]

It's part of our history, why run from it?

We shouldn't whitewash it or run from it at all. We should recognize that we aren't as different from Cambodia/Germany when it comes to the painful things in our history as we'd like to think. We should *always* remember that. 

What we shouldn't do is celebrate it. 

 

[knowledge dropper]

The national park service includes confederate cemeteries.  I assume some of you plan on digging them up as well?

 

[Henry Ford]

If they are brought down do we put up something in their place? 

Some of them. Probably not much point in replacing the Battle Of Liberty Place monument.  Maybe a nice fountain or something. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

If they are brought down do we put up something in their place? 

This

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

The national park service includes confederate cemeteries.  I assume some of you plan on digging them up as well?

No

 

[Quez]

The President should create a task force to go around looking for things that might be offensive and erase them.  Sure, it will be a massive undertaking, and cost plenty of tax dollars, but we want to make sure nobody has their feelings hurt.

 

[Dedfin]

This

 

[knowledge dropper]

We were pretty cruel to the Native Americans. Maybe using this logic we take down all US monuments?   

 

[Quez]

We were pretty cruel to the Native Americans. Maybe using this logic we take down all US monuments?   

 

[Henry Ford]

I live in an area where people use Confederate flags for curtains. It's their property and, as much as it sickens me, their right.

I draw the line at having monuments to traitors on grounds that I pay taxes to support. I'll budge on museums, but not on active government sites. 

I drive past 4 confederate flags every day on the way home. People can scream "heritage not hate" until they're blue in the face, but I personally know each homeowner flying one I drive past, and coincidentally they're all racists.  Not "the welfare state is paternalistic toward blacks" Republican racists, full on "that [nword] ever looks at my wife again I'll put a bullet in him" racists.

There are arguments for keeping the statue of Lee.  Even some for Jefferson Davis and, I suppose, P.G.T. Beauregard.  The Battle of Liberty Place monument was the dumbest hill I can imagine the anti-removal demonstrators electing to die on. 

 

[Uruk-Hai]

The President should create a task force to go around looking for things that might be offensive and erase them.  Sure, it will be a massive undertaking, and cost plenty of tax dollars, but we want to make sure nobody has their feelings hurt.

No one is talking about having "their feelings hurt". This was a systematic genocide that's been romanticized. Pick another hill to die on

 

[Uruk-Hai]

We were pretty cruel to the Native Americans. Maybe using this logic we take down all US monuments?   

I've made most of the dumbest posts in this board's history but, you sir, have me beat. Jesus....

 

[Dedfin]

No one is talking about having "their feelings hurt". This was a systematic genocide that's been romanticized. Pick another hill to die on

Maybe this type of stuff doesn't bother Quezbot.

 

[James Daulton]

Why can't we let the monuments stand as a memory of how we have progressed as a society, rather than as some kind of celebration of a past we'd like to forget.

I'm for keeping the ones we have and not erecting any new ones.  Can we start by getting rid of the Ark and Creationist Museum?  I know they're not really monuments but they're both stupid and embarrassing. 

 

[MarvinTScamper]

Whatever you do, be sure to blame someone else for the fact that you come across as tremendously ignorant on a subject you feel the need to tell us your opinion on

I didn't blame anyone chooch. 

 

[squistion]

We were pretty cruel to the Native Americans. Maybe using this logic we take down all US monuments?   

How bout we start with the Redskins team name first, then we can move on to monuments celebrating Native American genocide?

 

[MarvinTScamper]

Oh, good, so you recognize that it's your fault you come across as tremendously ignorant. The first step toward fixing a personal flaw is admitting it. Good on you.  

You're a real ####, but you own it.  :applause:

 

[Henry Ford]

You're a real ####, but you own it.  :applause:

You've hit on the one intellectually consistent argument for keeping these monuments. 

 

[knowledge dropper]

How bout we start with the Redskins team name first, then we can move on to monuments celebrating Native American genocide?

And this is where the whitewashing is going.....

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

I tell you what.  They can keep the statues but right next to each one we put a 50 foot tall one of these with a plaque that says 

"TALK ####, GET HIT"

--The good Americans

 

[MarvinTScamper]

You've hit on the one intellectually consistent argument for keeping these monuments. 

The only one worth considering.  And I already stated I would never have been in support of putting them up, so I'm fine with removal. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

And this is where the whitewashing is going.....

Who is whitewashing anything?

 

[squistion]

20 minutes ago, squistion said:

How bout we start with the Redskins team name first, then we can move on to monuments celebrating Native American genocide?

And this is where the whitewashing is going.....

Changing a team name that many Native Americans find pejorative, insulting and demeaning is not whitewashing.

 

[MarvinTScamper]

I would have thought that's something you'd at least respect

And yes, I'm being a ####. I get that. Guys like you don't generally appreciate people who #####foot around things, so I'm being direct. And I'm not worried about offending you because you're a big boy. 

Yep.  Slavery sucked.  Always did.  4000+ yrs of it.  These dip####s didn't invent it, but we did get rid of it. 

 

[knowledge dropper]

I've made most of the dumbest posts in this board's history but, you sir, have me beat. Jesus....

You just talked about genocide as it relates to the confederates. Our country was just as (if not) worse to the native Americans. 

 

[Henry Ford]

I tell you what.  They can keep the statues but right next to each one we put a 50 foot tall one of these with a plaque that says 

"TALK ####, GET HIT"

--The good Americans

I'm okay with keeping them and then just changing the plaque to explain how each person's failures led to the defeat of the Confederacy. 

"If General Beauregard had simply pressed his advantage through the night, General Grant would have been slaughtered at Shiloh.  Thank you General Beauregard, for deciding to get some sleep and let reinforcements arrive and begin their own assault that shattered your forces the next day."

- a grateful nation

 

[Wrigley]

We shouldn't whitewash it or run from it at all. We should recognize that we aren't as different from Cambodia/Germany when it comes to the painful things in our history as we'd like to think. We should *always* remember that. 

What we shouldn't do is celebrate it. 

But we are whitewashing it.........whitewashing a past, that we as a country, have tried to make right.

Not recognizing our past is forgetting what we've moved forward from.  

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

I don't think you guys know what "whitewashing" means.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

"Let's take down that statue of Lee.  We shouldn't celebrate him."  NOT whitewashing.

"Slavery wasn't that bad. I mean they had jobs and food and houses.  Some of the slave women even got free sex!"  = whitewashing.

anything, as deceptive words or actions, used tocover up or gloss over faults, errors, orwrongdoings, or absolve a wrongdoer from blame.