Mortimer Ichabod
Footballguy
Does Andy Reid flip flop again after Kolb roasting Atlanta today?
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Does Andy Reid change his mind again? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mortimer Ichabod
- Start date
Alluro
Footballguy
I didn't see the game, but did Kolb face any pass rush during the game? The one advantage Vick (seemingly) gives Philly is the ability to make something out of nothing when the pocket collapses. Was Kolb under duress during the game or was it smooth sailing for the Philly O-Line?
ScottyFargo
Footballguy
It's a beautiful thing
Dizzy
Footballguy
Good point. I watched the game and Kolb had it pretty easy out there today. Falcons were suckers for every wrinkle Philly threw at them... trick plays, fake end-arounds, etc.
NinerFan49
Footballguy
Vick's stats were inflated because he was the starter vs Detroit and Jacksonville, who have awful pass defenses. But the "Vick hype train" will probably result in him getting the starting job back as soon as he's healthy.
KentGraham10
Footballguy
With the offensive line you almost have to put Vick back in.
gotexansgo
Footballguy
Why? It hasnt seemed to affect Kolb to much in his past 2 starts.
WiDDoW_MaKeR
Footballguy
I have a feeling that they will keep Vick out until after their bye week. Just to take a longer look. They will activate him as a backup just in case. Kolb did throw one critical interception that could have cost them the game.
I also think that they could stick with Kolb... maybe they were even just giving him more time to recover after his concussion, as they had just been under fire for how they handle concussions.
However, I think that they will put Vick back in when healthy.... if not only because he has flip flopped so much, that he doesn't want to do it again. Also, having Kolb perform the way that he did would really raise his trade value if they were looking to go that route.
In other words.... I don't have a clue.
I also think that they could stick with Kolb... maybe they were even just giving him more time to recover after his concussion, as they had just been under fire for how they handle concussions.
However, I think that they will put Vick back in when healthy.... if not only because he has flip flopped so much, that he doesn't want to do it again. Also, having Kolb perform the way that he did would really raise his trade value if they were looking to go that route.
In other words.... I don't have a clue.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
Kolb is Reid's QB. It's who he decided to stake his coaching future on by trading McNabb. It's who he wants to succeed there for that reason.
Vick is manna from heaven. His play was surprisingly excellent, but he's still more of a free-lancer.
I think Andy, if he has any bias at work, will have the bias that seeks to demonstrate his wisdom in picking Kolb over McNabb, which means that Kolb would be his preference over Vick. That's only reinforced by Kolb fitting the prototype for Reid's offense given Kolb's style as a pocket passer.
Vick is manna from heaven. His play was surprisingly excellent, but he's still more of a free-lancer.
I think Andy, if he has any bias at work, will have the bias that seeks to demonstrate his wisdom in picking Kolb over McNabb, which means that Kolb would be his preference over Vick. That's only reinforced by Kolb fitting the prototype for Reid's offense given Kolb's style as a pocket passer.
WiDDoW_MaKeR
Footballguy
The answer may come from over Ried's head.
meanjoegreen
Footballguy
If I were Kolb I would want to be traded out of there. He got knocked out of the first game of the season due to injury, and Reid said over and over again publicly that Kolb would remain the starting QB when healthy. Reid then took away that support and changed his mind. I'd never trust my coach again.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Its gonna be Vick.
Wait, its Kolb.
No, its gonna be Vick. I am sure of it.
Ok the more I think as I type this the more I think its gonna be Kolb... ok maybe Vick.
Wait, its Kolb.
No, its gonna be Vick. I am sure of it.
Ok the more I think as I type this the more I think its gonna be Kolb... ok maybe Vick.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
I doubt it That's one team that I've never seen meddle in coaching decisions such as this one.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I've seen this thought about trading Kolb come up in other threads...I can't see it as Vick is not under contract beyond this season. Kolb and Kafka are. I don't think they would go into the offseason with Kafka being the only QB under contract, especially after all they've done to get Kolb to this point.
This may be a situation where the better choice might be different week to week. The O-line is getting better, but is still a long way from good. Play Vick against the better pass rush teams, and Kolb otherwise?
No way they do that, but that's what they should do. Vick is an exciting playmaker, but he isn't as good of a pure passer as Kolb, and Kolb has a ton more room to grow.
Nice problem to have if your an Eagles fan.
No way they do that, but that's what they should do. Vick is an exciting playmaker, but he isn't as good of a pure passer as Kolb, and Kolb has a ton more room to grow.
Nice problem to have if your an Eagles fan.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
Also, Vick won't sign an extension absent a clear indication that he's the starting QB. He wants to start now and will test the FA waters for a contract if Kolb remains the starter.
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
Yes he changes his mind and probably not for the last time either.
I understand the speculation that it could, but there is NO WAY the decision comes from anyone other than Reid. Just like the decision to sit Kolb and name Vick the starter was decided between Kolb and Reid. That was all done before a phone call to brass that left them speechless that Andy was making the move at that time. Trust me- this is Andy's team FIRST.
It looks like it happened that way, but it didn't.
hootyhoo22
Footballguy
here's what i see.
vick- bigger arm. can make plays ANYWHERE on the field with arms and legs. Out of pocket, in pocket. it doesn't matter. plus you have to keep a spy on him which opens up the running lanes for mccoy and harrison. Has more potential for big plays with vick under center.
kolb- accurate as hell. Dude gets that ball out quick. Doesn't throw the deep bell as well as vick or donovan. but its still effective. the problem is that when the protection breaks down. kolb is horrible. he is starting to better as far as stepping up in the pocket and just feeling the pressure period.
vick- bigger arm. can make plays ANYWHERE on the field with arms and legs. Out of pocket, in pocket. it doesn't matter. plus you have to keep a spy on him which opens up the running lanes for mccoy and harrison. Has more potential for big plays with vick under center.
kolb- accurate as hell. Dude gets that ball out quick. Doesn't throw the deep bell as well as vick or donovan. but its still effective. the problem is that when the protection breaks down. kolb is horrible. he is starting to better as far as stepping up in the pocket and just feeling the pressure period.
hootyhoo22
Footballguy
it doesn't. Before the game against atlanta, kolb wasn't looking at jackson much. Kolb likes to spread the ball around anyways. so maclin, celek, weaver and avant should be able to pick up the slack. main issue is that there is no home run threat.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
Weaver is out for the year with a torn ACL.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Maclin becomes the home run threat with DJax out.
Owen Schmitt has assumed Weaver's role in the offense and may actually be a viable play in PPR leagues if you're desperate.
Owen Schmitt has assumed Weaver's role in the offense and may actually be a viable play in PPR leagues if you're desperate.
hootyhoo22
Footballguy
sorry i meant mccoy.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I stated that when Kolb got hurt Vick earned the right to start. Now that Vick is hurt Kolb has more than eared his job back.
Last edited by a moderator:
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
I think they are gonna stick with Kolb.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
As I said in another Kolb thread:
Kolb is dependent on the play of his O-Line. If they are good (as they were yesterday), he is good. If they are bad (as they were against Green Bay), he is bad. The O-Line has been more bad than good this year.
This is not the case with Vick. He can play well (and has) when the O-Line is playing poorly because of his legs.
Therefore, I think Vick becomes the starter again, but only when he is fully healthy.
However, Kolb has shown enough to allow the Eagles to stick with their plan of him as QB of the future. In the offseason, Vick will be allowed to sign a rich deal with another team, Kolb will become the undisputed starter, and the O-Line will be addressed, particularly at C and RG.
Kolb is dependent on the play of his O-Line. If they are good (as they were yesterday), he is good. If they are bad (as they were against Green Bay), he is bad. The O-Line has been more bad than good this year.
This is not the case with Vick. He can play well (and has) when the O-Line is playing poorly because of his legs.
Therefore, I think Vick becomes the starter again, but only when he is fully healthy.
However, Kolb has shown enough to allow the Eagles to stick with their plan of him as QB of the future. In the offseason, Vick will be allowed to sign a rich deal with another team, Kolb will become the undisputed starter, and the O-Line will be addressed, particularly at C and RG.
gotexansgo
Footballguy
I think this is a very overlooked thing, I do not think its a coincidence that Kolb has played well in every game except the one where he was being dragged in and out to bring Vick in.coltsnut said:
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
I think he'll stick with Kolb, but I can see this happening if the o-line is a recurring problem. The thing is, given Reid's stubbornness and the link between his QB talent evaluation and his reputation, this will take weeks to play out before another switch is made (ignoring potential injuries, etc.). Kolb is the starter for at least the next two games IMHO, and obviously beyond that if he continues to be successful.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
I agree with this assessment. Vick and Kolb are both great QBs, but Kolb does not like Vick hanging around (unlike McNabb). There are a few football positions that work well with a rotation, but IMO QB is not one of them.With the number of NFL teams that need a solid franchise QB, the Eagles have a high value trade-able asset in Vick. If you start Vick when he is less than 100% (and against good defenses) his trade value will go down. I am not sure what Reid will do this year, but it has worked out really well so far. Kolb had a few extra weeks to heal from his concussion, and now Vick should have a few extra weeks to heal from his injury. There is no sense in rushing Vick back, even if Reid goes with Vick for this year.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Also - not sure if anyone else saw Dungy last night discussing the Kolb/Vick situation, but he feels Reid will go with Kolb.
gotexansgo
Footballguy
I saw that, and must say I was very shocked considering his involvement with Vick.
gotexansgo
Footballguy
I feel pretty confident in saying, Kolb would have lit up Detroit and Jacksonville to.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
You're expecting a personal bias from Dungy on this given his relationship with Vick, but he was commenting upon another coach's evaluation. Unless you're suggesting that Dungy predicting Vick would be the starter would influence Reid's decision, I don't see how Dungy's relationship with Vick is in any way relevant to his comments.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I am going to get crucified by many on here for perhaps stating this but the Eagles best opportunity of winning a SB will be with Kolb for the now and the future.
Vick has had a couple of good games this year, and looks improved in many areas of his game, but I still think when push comes to shove and he needs to make throws to win, the Eagles will fail. Vick is a career 54% passer and when he will need to rely heavily on his arm it will not be pretty.
Now, before people will say he has turned it around and is a better passer (which he may be to a smaller extent) I just don't see when playoffs come around that Vick is good enough to string together drives with his arm when that is what it will take.
Vick has had a couple of good games this year, and looks improved in many areas of his game, but I still think when push comes to shove and he needs to make throws to win, the Eagles will fail. Vick is a career 54% passer and when he will need to rely heavily on his arm it will not be pretty.
Now, before people will say he has turned it around and is a better passer (which he may be to a smaller extent) I just don't see when playoffs come around that Vick is good enough to string together drives with his arm when that is what it will take.
And Vick would have lit up San Fran.What's your point?Vick is still better.
Please See Mine
Footballguy
Reid says in presser that there is a pretty good chance that Kolb starts next week.
I think this has been offered many times, and some folks have speculated that's what Reid will do. I think it's also been pointed out that this is probably not a good idea, because the effect on the rhythm and flow of the 'passing' QB - Kolb, is negative.What you would end up with is Kolb performing inconsistantly due to this, and Philly fans screaming for Vick.The other thing I wanted to address was that someone mentioned Kolb's interception, and he was lucky not to have more. I couldn't disagree more.The pass that was picked was an excellent defensive play, where the CB jumped to get a hand on it and it bounced around before being caught. Regardless... there was another play where a pass should have been picked off. Kolb is going to make mistakes, all good QBs do their first year starting.It is what he does with the learning of those mistakes that will decide whether he becomes a really good QB or not. Flip-flopping QB's in and out does not lend itself to improving that learning... especially if you don't give a guy a chance to go right back out there and make up for that mistake, but he has to sit and stew about it while another QB is leading the team. It also can wreck the locker room chemistry. A franchise QB needs to be a locker room leader, not a co-leader.It never works. Show me one time in the modern era where it has? Co QBs leading a team to the superbowl.
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