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Does Colts/Pats count as a "big game" (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter smcindoe
- Start date
did you have? 
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
No.Banger said:
Does this imply that no regular season game is a big game? And also that, of the 267 NFL games played each year, only about 7 of them (give or take) are big?
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Due to the success of the Patriots over the last 5 years, my definition of a big game is a "hat and t-shirt game" (Tedy Bruschi coined this term).A guy of Mannings stature shouldnt be excited about winning a wild card game.When your team consistently pumps out 13-3 and 12-4 seasons, can any 1 regular season game be considered a big game? The Colts are going to win their division every year. If they arent concerned about winning their division or making the playoffs, then I cant classify it as a big game.
OK. So there are exactly three big games every year, correct?
lions327
Footballguy
Up until now, Mannings 3 best postseason games were 2 blowouts and a close game against a terrible KC defense in 2003. In those 3 games he had 12 TD's and one pick. In the other 8 playoff games, he has had 4 TD's and 12 picks. That is terrible. Those are numbers of a scrub QB. He simply can't play like that this week. In close games against respectable teams, he has not played well. He played below average in both of this years playoff games, even though they won.Pat Patriot said:
Let's face it, he has to PLAY WELL in a big game against a quality team to get rid of the choker label. This is without question the biggest game of his career.
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
Joe, if you are reading this, I think we need a new forum, and we call it the Peyton Manning forum....there are so many people who have differing opinions on this - most of them irrational as all get out. So I assert that we give them their own place to piss and moan about him and free up space in the SP.
Guys like H.K., BostonFred, etc could moderate.
Guys like H.K., BostonFred, etc could moderate.
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My_Favorite_Team_is
Footballguy
Thanks, I love being called irrational as all get out 
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Fantastic post, it made my morning.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I guarantee you that if "your' Patriots ever go a decade without making the playoffs, and it will happen eventually, you WOULD consider any playoff game a "BIG" game.
nygiants56
Footballguy
the biggest game of Manning's career.period.
Sweeper
Footballguy
The tools really come out in the postseason, eh?
This is A big game that leads to THE BIG GAME. Peyton has to win the superbowl to be able to get this monkey off of his back.
If he loses this game, the tag that he can't win a big game will stick to him more then ever. It will take more then ONE win vs. the Pats to shake the "choker" reputation.
This is A big game that leads to THE BIG GAME. Peyton has to win the superbowl to be able to get this monkey off of his back.
If he loses this game, the tag that he can't win a big game will stick to him more then ever. It will take more then ONE win vs. the Pats to shake the "choker" reputation.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
When you are judging QB's historically, YES.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
The Patriots of my childhood, teens, and 20's were the joke of the league. I had season tickets at various times during that period as well. Believe me, I am no bandwagon fan. But we are not just talking about what is a BIG game. We are talking about what is a BIG game in the context of comparing the greatest QB's of all time. For Manning to be included in that group, he has to win at minimum an AFC Championship and most likely a SB. There are NO big games left for Manning prior to the AFC Championship Game. Thats just the way it is for him now. You say that every playoff game is a big game. Manning is 5-6 in the playoffs. Why do most fans say that Manning cant win the big game? The "Big" game is bigger than just a playoff game at this stage.
Sweeper
Footballguy
I would like to add that for Peyton, WINNING the Super Bowl is the only acceptable result here.
He has had enough chances where he has fallen short of expectations, and yes, winning vs the Pats would be the biggest win of his career but he still needs to win the Super Bowl. No question.
To compare him to Tom Brady, Tom usually finds a way to win these games and for that he has been labeled a clutch QB. In fact, it is accepted that he is the best QB playing today. This is not because of one game, it is a trend over many games.
Now, by the same standard, Manning's reputation is the result of a trend as well. He needs to do more then win ONE big game. He needs to win this big game and then go on to win the super bowl.
He has had enough chances where he has fallen short of expectations, and yes, winning vs the Pats would be the biggest win of his career but he still needs to win the Super Bowl. No question.
To compare him to Tom Brady, Tom usually finds a way to win these games and for that he has been labeled a clutch QB. In fact, it is accepted that he is the best QB playing today. This is not because of one game, it is a trend over many games.
Now, by the same standard, Manning's reputation is the result of a trend as well. He needs to do more then win ONE big game. He needs to win this big game and then go on to win the super bowl.
I think it can be argued that taking the step between just missing the playoffs and getting in the bracket is perceived to be bigger than the step between winning 0 and 1 playoff games. When you qualify for postseason, it is hat and t-shirt time. You don't get a hat and t-shirt after every playoff win.
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Of course tomorrow is a huge game to people that think.
But it's absolutley NOT a big game in the sense that the masses will stop saying Manning can't win the big game.
Until he wins the Super Bowl, those people will say that. Winning tomorrow will do nothing to lessen that unless he wins again in two weeks. In fact, it would probably be worse.
J
But it's absolutley NOT a big game in the sense that the masses will stop saying Manning can't win the big game.
Until he wins the Super Bowl, those people will say that. Winning tomorrow will do nothing to lessen that unless he wins again in two weeks. In fact, it would probably be worse.
J
bostonfred
Footballguy
I think tomorrow is a big game. I thought last week and the week before were big games. I thought that Manning's previous wins at KC and Denver were big games. I think Manning has already shown he is capable of winning a big game.
I also think he's shown a consistent dropoff in performance that threatens his legacy. If he didn't win a Superbowl despite carrying the team on his back, it would be one thing. But if he doesn't win a Superbowl after putting up bad performance after bad performance, it's quite another. And with his defense and running game doing all of the heavy lifting so far this offseason, while Manning has had two decidedly subpar games, I would say that the AFC Championship this year is yet another critical game in terms of defining his legacy.
People used to say that Manning couldn't beat the Patriots. With his recent regular season success against them, I think he's shown that that's not true. Or maybe, that it's no longer the case. I don't know which. But I no longer base my opinion of whether the Colts will beat the Patriots on some kind of inability to beat the Patriots.
Win or lose, if Manning has a great game tomorrow, and doesn't make his characteristic mistakes, I'll be less likely to expect them in his next playoff game. Win or lose, if Manning shows poor clock management, takes sacks he shouldn't, turns the ball over, I'll expect him to continue to do so in playoff games until I see otherwise. This year has done nothing to make me think he's over that.
Manning had 8 INTs in nine playoff games prior to this postseason. He has 5 INTs in two playoff games this year. He had 17 total TDs in nine playoff games prior to this postseason. He has one this year. His 170 yard performance against Baltimore is the second fewest of his postseason career. It's the second fewest of his 2006 season.
When people say that Manning has his worst games in the playoffs, here's what they mean:
- Manning has had four INTs twice in 136 regular season games (3%). He has one in 11 playoff games (9%).
- Manning has had 5 games with 3+ INTs in 136 regular season games. He has two in 11 playoff games.
- Manning has had 28 multi INT games in 136 regular season games (20%). He has four in 11 playoff games (36%).
- In 136 complete games since his rookie season, his 170 against Baltimore last week was his seventh worst yardage output. His worst was 136 yards. That was also in the playoffs.
- Since 1998, the Colts have never been held to 3 or fewer points in the regular season. Except in the playoffs, when it has happened twice.
I don't understand why anyone is still criticizing Manning for being unable to win the big game. He's done it. That monkey's off his back. I also don't know why anyone is defending Manning from accusations that he plays worse in the playoffs. He's doing it right now. Maybe tomorrow he'll take another step towards getting that monkey off his back. Maybe he won't. But - and I think his supporters and detractors will agree that this is the way it should be - the result of the game won't have as much to do with my opinion of Manning as his individual performance.
I also think he's shown a consistent dropoff in performance that threatens his legacy. If he didn't win a Superbowl despite carrying the team on his back, it would be one thing. But if he doesn't win a Superbowl after putting up bad performance after bad performance, it's quite another. And with his defense and running game doing all of the heavy lifting so far this offseason, while Manning has had two decidedly subpar games, I would say that the AFC Championship this year is yet another critical game in terms of defining his legacy.
People used to say that Manning couldn't beat the Patriots. With his recent regular season success against them, I think he's shown that that's not true. Or maybe, that it's no longer the case. I don't know which. But I no longer base my opinion of whether the Colts will beat the Patriots on some kind of inability to beat the Patriots.
Win or lose, if Manning has a great game tomorrow, and doesn't make his characteristic mistakes, I'll be less likely to expect them in his next playoff game. Win or lose, if Manning shows poor clock management, takes sacks he shouldn't, turns the ball over, I'll expect him to continue to do so in playoff games until I see otherwise. This year has done nothing to make me think he's over that.
Manning had 8 INTs in nine playoff games prior to this postseason. He has 5 INTs in two playoff games this year. He had 17 total TDs in nine playoff games prior to this postseason. He has one this year. His 170 yard performance against Baltimore is the second fewest of his postseason career. It's the second fewest of his 2006 season.
When people say that Manning has his worst games in the playoffs, here's what they mean:
- Manning has had four INTs twice in 136 regular season games (3%). He has one in 11 playoff games (9%).
- Manning has had 5 games with 3+ INTs in 136 regular season games. He has two in 11 playoff games.
- Manning has had 28 multi INT games in 136 regular season games (20%). He has four in 11 playoff games (36%).
- In 136 complete games since his rookie season, his 170 against Baltimore last week was his seventh worst yardage output. His worst was 136 yards. That was also in the playoffs.
- Since 1998, the Colts have never been held to 3 or fewer points in the regular season. Except in the playoffs, when it has happened twice.
I don't understand why anyone is still criticizing Manning for being unable to win the big game. He's done it. That monkey's off his back. I also don't know why anyone is defending Manning from accusations that he plays worse in the playoffs. He's doing it right now. Maybe tomorrow he'll take another step towards getting that monkey off his back. Maybe he won't. But - and I think his supporters and detractors will agree that this is the way it should be - the result of the game won't have as much to do with my opinion of Manning as his individual performance.
nice post BF, ya lost me on this last paragraph though. Seemed hypocritical
bostonfred
Footballguy
I'm talking about three different thingsnice post BF, ya lost me on this last paragraph though. Seemed hypocritical
o I think Manning can win a big game? Yes. Do I think Manning can have a good game in the playoffs? Yes.Do I think Manning is likely to make critical, game-losing mistakes in pressure situations in the playoffs? Yes. What's hypocritical about that? I think it's a realistic player evaluation. There are a lot of myths about Manning that are either untrue or unprovable. I think we have enough data to honestly evaluate the three statements above.OK I gotcha, thanks for clarifyingI'm talking about three different thingsnice post BF, ya lost me on this last paragraph though. Seemed hypocritical
CalBear
Footballguy
OK, let's then ignore the results of the snow game against the Raiders.Guess Vinatieri's not as good as we thought, too, since those kicks weren't in a big game.
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