Does Favre still get credit (1 Viewer)

[Jason Wood]

I respectfully disagree with your ratings.

Passer ability-Favre hands down. Culpepper's completion percentage is one of the most misrepresentative stats in all of sports. An undue amount of his passes are bail out passes to players in the flat on third and long when another QB would throw the ball down field. Culpepper is average hitting a player crossing the field, and a tremendous amount of his completions are to players standing still or coming back to the ball. Favre ability to hit a player in stride far superceed Culpeppers.

You may believe what you're saying Dozier, but the facts don't back you up.Average Yards per Attempt 2004 -- Culpepper (8.61) vs. Favre (7.61)

Average YPA Career -- Culpepper (7.8) vs. Favre (7.1)

Another way of looking at this...
Culpepper -- 42% of his pass attempts led to first downs
Favre -- 35% of his passes led to first downs

 

[Bull Dozier]

I respectfully disagree with your ratings. 

Passer ability-Favre hands down.  Culpepper's completion percentage is one of the most misrepresentative stats in all of sports.  An undue amount of his passes are bail out passes to players in the flat on third and long when another QB would throw the ball down field.  Culpepper is average hitting a player crossing the field, and a tremendous amount of his completions are to players standing still or coming back to the ball.  Favre ability to hit a player in stride far superceed Culpeppers.

You may believe what you're saying Dozier, but the facts don't back you up.Average Yards per Attempt 2004 -- Culpepper (8.61) vs. Favre (7.61)

Average YPA Career -- Culpepper (7.8) vs. Favre (7.1)

Another way of looking at this...
Culpepper -- 42% of his pass attempts led to first downs
Favre -- 35% of his passes led to first downs

Do you have a source for 3rd down passing numbers? I'd be curious to see those numbers.I understand the point you are making with those stats, but I don't think they tell the whole story. Culpepper plays in a more vertical offense, and has had the luxury with playing with arguable the greatest deep threat in the NFL. In the five games Moss missed this year, Culpeppers Y/A was 7.1, versus 8.8 when Moss was in the lineup.

I don't think it can be argued that Favre has been able to play with the same level of receivers over his career that Culpepper has (Freeman, Brooks, Driver, and breifly with Walker and Sterling Sharpe don't compare to Cris Carter, and/or Randy Moss as your #1 for your entire career). Had Favre been able to play with Moss for the percentage of his career that Daunte has, I don't think there is any debate that his y/a would have been significantly higher. Favre's offense also has been of a more traditional WCO variety, with more consistent shorter passes to wide receivers. Favre made his name on the slant pass to Sterling Sharpe in his early years. Culpepper made his lobbing the long ball to Randy Moss. Please don't tell me you think comparing their respective y/a is an accurate statistical comparison.

 

[Jason Wood]

I respectfully disagree with your ratings. 

Passer ability-Favre hands down.  Culpepper's completion percentage is one of the most misrepresentative stats in all of sports.  An undue amount of his passes are bail out passes to players in the flat on third and long when another QB would throw the ball down field.  Culpepper is average hitting a player crossing the field, and a tremendous amount of his completions are to players standing still or coming back to the ball.  Favre ability to hit a player in stride far superceed Culpeppers.

You may believe what you're saying Dozier, but the facts don't back you up.Average Yards per Attempt 2004 -- Culpepper (8.61) vs. Favre (7.61)

Average YPA Career -- Culpepper (7.8) vs. Favre (7.1)

Another way of looking at this...
Culpepper -- 42% of his pass attempts led to first downs
Favre -- 35% of his passes led to first downs

Do you have a source for 3rd down passing numbers? I'd be curious to see those numbers.I understand the point you are making with those stats, but I don't think they tell the whole story. Culpepper plays in a more vertical offense, and has had the luxury with playing with arguable the greatest deep threat in the NFL. In the five games Moss missed this year, Culpeppers Y/A was 7.1, versus 8.8 when Moss was in the lineup.

I don't think it can be argued that Favre has been able to play with the same level of receivers over his career that Culpepper has (Freeman, Brooks, Driver, and breifly with Walker and Sterling Sharpe don't compare to Cris Carter, and/or Randy Moss as your #1 for your entire career). Had Favre been able to play with Moss for the percentage of his career that Daunte has, I don't think there is any debate that his y/a would have been significantly higher. Favre's offense also has been of a more traditional WCO variety, with more consistent shorter passes to wide receivers. Favre made his name on the slant pass to Sterling Sharpe in his early years. Culpepper made his lobbing the long ball to Randy Moss. Please don't tell me you think comparing their respective y/a is an accurate statistical comparison.

You just contradicted yourself. You suggest Culpepper's completion percentage is somehow smoke and mirrors yet admit that he plays in a vertical passing offense where they DON'T make a habit of throwing short passes and going for YAC as they do in more conventional WCO style offenses.As to 3rd down passing numbers, I've got those aplenty.

First downs per pass attempt on 3rd down

Culpepper -- 54% first downs (75 of 104)...9.53 YPA
Favre -- 46% first downs (75 of 118)...7.83 YPAYards per Pass Attempt, 3rd Down (YPA)

Culpepper -- 9.53 (1st in NFL)
Favre -- 7.83 (8th in NFL)

 

[Bull Dozier]

I respectfully disagree with your ratings. 

Passer ability-Favre hands down.  Culpepper's completion percentage is one of the most misrepresentative stats in all of sports.  An undue amount of his passes are bail out passes to players in the flat on third and long when another QB would throw the ball down field.  Culpepper is average hitting a player crossing the field, and a tremendous amount of his completions are to players standing still or coming back to the ball.  Favre ability to hit a player in stride far superceed Culpeppers.

You may believe what you're saying Dozier, but the facts don't back you up.Average Yards per Attempt 2004 -- Culpepper (8.61) vs. Favre (7.61)

Average YPA Career -- Culpepper (7.8) vs. Favre (7.1)

Another way of looking at this...
Culpepper -- 42% of his pass attempts led to first downs
Favre -- 35% of his passes led to first downs

Do you have a source for 3rd down passing numbers? I'd be curious to see those numbers.I understand the point you are making with those stats, but I don't think they tell the whole story. Culpepper plays in a more vertical offense, and has had the luxury with playing with arguable the greatest deep threat in the NFL. In the five games Moss missed this year, Culpeppers Y/A was 7.1, versus 8.8 when Moss was in the lineup.

I don't think it can be argued that Favre has been able to play with the same level of receivers over his career that Culpepper has (Freeman, Brooks, Driver, and breifly with Walker and Sterling Sharpe don't compare to Cris Carter, and/or Randy Moss as your #1 for your entire career). Had Favre been able to play with Moss for the percentage of his career that Daunte has, I don't think there is any debate that his y/a would have been significantly higher. Favre's offense also has been of a more traditional WCO variety, with more consistent shorter passes to wide receivers. Favre made his name on the slant pass to Sterling Sharpe in his early years. Culpepper made his lobbing the long ball to Randy Moss. Please don't tell me you think comparing their respective y/a is an accurate statistical comparison.

You just contradicted yourself. You suggest Culpepper's completion percentage is somehow smoke and mirrors yet admit that he plays in a vertical passing offense where they DON'T make a habit of throwing short passes and going for YAC as they do in more conventional WCO style offenses.As to 3rd down passing numbers, I've got those aplenty.

First downs per pass attempt on 3rd down

Culpepper -- 54% first downs (75 of 104)...9.53 YPA
Favre -- 46% first downs (75 of 118)...7.83 YPAYards per Pass Attempt, 3rd Down (YPA)

Culpepper -- 9.53 (1st in NFL)
Favre -- 7.83 (8th in NFL)

Jason, thanks for the 3rd down passing numbers, and based on those I will stand corrected.I do not however think I contradicted myself. MN has a more vertically designed passing attack, but of course every offense is going to have outlets designed into them. Culpepper uses the dump off on 3rd and long rather than going downfield, where Favre throws the ball downfield.

Favre just hasn't had the receivers to get YAC in the WCO he's played in.

Just answer me this, Jason, how do you think Favre would have done up to this point if he had been drafted by the Vikings in '99 as their future franchise instead of Culpepper? How would his numbers and W/L looked as compared to Culpepper?

 

[Jason Wood]

Jason, thanks for the 3rd down passing numbers, and based on those I will stand corrected.I do not however think I contradicted myself. MN has a more vertically designed passing attack, but of course every offense is going to have outlets designed into them. Culpepper uses the dump off on 3rd and long rather than going downfield, where Favre throws the ball downfield.Favre just hasn't had the receivers to get YAC in the WCO he's played in.Just answer me this, Jason, how do you think Favre would have done up to this point if he had been drafted by the Vikings in '99 as their future franchise instead of Culpepper? How would his numbers and W/L looked as compared to Culpepper?

Hey Dozier,Just to be clear, I'm not a Favre hater. Far from it. In fact, aside from my Eagles, Favre is easily among my favorite current NFL players.That said, it's very tough to play those games where we switch two players. But I will say this, Favre's talents are transcendent and I believe he would've been an exceptional talent and highly successful regardless of who he played for and who lined up with him every Sunday. And I would gladly take Favre in his prime over just about any QB in the league today, but this discussion was about Favre as a player TODAY versus his contemporaries, and in that regard I'll take 2004 Culpepper on any NFL team over 2004 Favre. My $0.02

 

[reg]

Is he the one guy currently that you want  under center with the game on the line. No he is not I believe him to be the fifth best in the league right now so I would choose Brady, Manning, Culpepper, McNabb over Farve.

You'd pick Culpepper over Favre with the game on the line? When has Culpepper displayed his great comeback ability?

There has been a few times that Culpepper has driven down the field late in the game for what should be a game winning drive, only to have the defense allow the other team to score.

Good point. This is true. Still, with an equally ranked defense, Favre has 4 4th quarter comebacks in the last 7 weeks of the season. Granted, 4th quarter comebacks are largely due to situational opportunity, but Favre shows me he still has the ability. Culpepper hasn't sold me on his, consistently or otherwise, yet.

Well in the 4th quarter score is within 7 points, Culpepper is:104/157 for 1140 yards, 11 tds vs 2 INT's. 54 1st downs and a 112 passer rating.By the same token Favre is:71/113 for 827 yards, 6 tds vs 6 INT's. 43 1st downs (quite amazing considering he only completed 71 passes) and 80 passer rating.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Is he the one guy currently that you want  under center with the game on the line. No he is not I believe him to be the fifth best in the league right now so I would choose Brady, Manning, Culpepper, McNabb over Farve.

You'd pick Culpepper over Favre with the game on the line? When has Culpepper displayed his great comeback ability?

There has been a few times that Culpepper has driven down the field late in the game for what should be a game winning drive, only to have the defense allow the other team to score.

Good point. This is true. Still, with an equally ranked defense, Favre has 4 4th quarter comebacks in the last 7 weeks of the season. Granted, 4th quarter comebacks are largely due to situational opportunity, but Favre shows me he still has the ability. Culpepper hasn't sold me on his, consistently or otherwise, yet.

Well in the 4th quarter score is within 7 points, Culpepper is:104/157 for 1140 yards, 11 tds vs 2 INT's. 54 1st downs and a 112 passer rating.By the same token Favre is:71/113 for 827 yards, 6 tds vs 6 INT's. 43 1st downs (quite amazing considering he only completed 71 passes) and 80 passer rating.

Link so I can see those for myself?Other than the TD/INT ration, it appears they are quite similar, with the exception that Culpepper threw it a lot more.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Jason, thanks for the 3rd down passing numbers, and based on those I will stand corrected.I do not however think I contradicted myself. MN has a more vertically designed passing attack, but of course every offense is going to have outlets designed into them. Culpepper uses the dump off on 3rd and long rather than going downfield, where Favre throws the ball downfield.Favre just hasn't had the receivers to get YAC in the WCO he's played in.Just answer me this, Jason, how do you think Favre would have done up to this point if he had been drafted by the Vikings in '99 as their future franchise instead of Culpepper? How would his numbers and W/L looked as compared to Culpepper?

Hey Dozier,Just to be clear, I'm not a Favre hater. Far from it. In fact, aside from my Eagles, Favre is easily among my favorite current NFL players.That said, it's very tough to play those games where we switch two players. But I will say this, Favre's talents are transcendent and I believe he would've been an exceptional talent and highly successful regardless of who he played for and who lined up with him every Sunday. And I would gladly take Favre in his prime over just about any QB in the league today, but this discussion was about Favre as a player TODAY versus his contemporaries, and in that regard I'll take 2004 Culpepper on any NFL team over 2004 Favre. My $0.02

Fair enough.

 

[reg]

No cause I made those numbers up.

Favre

Culpepper

 

[Bull Dozier]

No cause I made those numbers up. FavreCulpepper

Knowing you Reg, that is of course what I thought. I should have thought to check there earlier.I will say those numbers both you and Wood have shown me today make me second guess some things I have thought previously. For the time being, I can't say I have much to say at this point.

 

[DeCleater]

That said, it's very tough to play those games where we switch two players. But I will say this, Favre's talents are transcendent and I believe he would've been an exceptional talent and highly successful regardless of who he played for and who lined up with him every Sunday.

I totally disagree with you here Jason. Favre was a diamond in the rough but without great coaching early in his career he may never have achieved greatness. Without Holmgren, Reid, Mariucci, and Gruden, Favre may have been the next David Klingler. Put him on those Cincinnati teams and I think his interceptions overcome him, the light never goes on and he is out of the league before you know it. The right situation has alot to do with success in the NFL. Steve Young sucked in Tampa Bay before he went to SF. That said I think Favre is one of the top 5 QB's of all-time.

 

[StuntMonkee]

Note : QB Brett Favre not only finished with the fourth 4,000-yard passing season of his career, he also set an NFL record by throwing 30 or more touchdowns for the eighth time in his career. The Packers also finished the season with several other team records: Their 6,349 yards in total offense, 354 first downs and 382 completions all were most in franchise history.Anyone care to argue that Favre didn’t have a huge part in this?I will agree that when Favre has a dismal game it is an awful game, but take yesterdays game. When your down by 17 in the first 5 min of a game, it's going to be one of those games. You could see it in the whole team. Wr were out of sync, and Favre was out of sync. The running game hasn’t been solid for most of the season except for a handful of games, but I don’t think Green broke 100 in the last 7 or 8 games.In recent years, GB has been put on the field as one of the better teams, and a team to beat, and to be honest, with the defense they had this year, and the types of offenses they had to play this year, I was just happy to see them get back from their 1&4 start.Favre isn’t a modern QB by any means. The likes of Dante, McNabb, and Vick are totally different QB's, and they are all solid. Then you have Manning who is having a freakish year. But after those 4, who's your next QB? I would think Favre would come to mind. Now Vick isn’t considered a top qb this year, but if you look at the other 3, they all have those WR that are making a diff. This year Javon broke into that category, and even driver had a solid season. If we can keep Ferg health next year, then I wouldn't see it to be far fetched to see Favre leading the league in TD passes once again.I think Favre is one of the premier QB's of all time, and with out a question a top 10 next year, most likely a top 5, and a stretch #1. I think you also have to consider what he does for that team. There was rumors that it was turning into Greens team. . .that’s a joke. I love Green and all, but lets be honest, do any of you think that green could have had his season last year or even this year with Peterson at the helm?Bash Favre if you want, but you can't argue history. You mention all these other QB's being oh so great despite the fact that they are all seasoned vetrans and haven’t won a SB yet. Throw 100 td's in a season for all I care, but if manning chokes like he has in seasons past, then really what are we comparing?oh, and on the Brady comments. . .I give him credit for his 2 SB, but really it was the kicker that won both of those games, and it was a product of a well rounded team that got him there. Brady is a good qb the i think will be forgotten in the not so distant future.that’s my 2 cents. . .errr dollars I guess, take it for what its worth.I just hope to see him one more season and hopefully go out on a game that doesnt end on one of his int's.

 

[Beergogglz]

So we can officially put to rest the 'if you had just one game to win, you would pick Favre as your QB' talk...right? He has been below average in big 'have to win' games over the past 7 years. That's a long period of time to be a below average NFL QB in the playoffs.

I think Brady has taken that mantle from Favre as of now, and anyone who would pick someone else, after the last three years, is crazy (and I'm a big Favre backer).Still, if I'm down by 4 with 1:20 on the clock with the ball at my own 20, I'd taken Favre without a second though even after yesterday.

I think you would take 1997 Favre. I really don't think you'd take 2005 Favre.

Johnny Unitas invented the two minute drill, but I would take Montana over everyone else.

Amen, brother.

 

[14464]

Favre is now an average QB that has the occassional great game that reminds everyone of his past glories.Unfortunately, people forget that atheletes skills deteriorate with age.

Again, not to keep repeating myself, but Farve for a LONG time has hurt his ballclub just as much as he helped them in the SB year. Yes, he was fun to watch, throwing up balls, everyone laughing and slapping their knee "there goes that Farve!" but when time after time after time he is a KEY reason they lose their playoff games, enough is enough. I am sure it would be very easy to name 10 or 15 QBs right now I would much rather have going into a postseaon game but he is STILL regarded as ONE OF THE BEST?!?!? Why?I laugh that people like me who bring this up get bashed as if we don't know anything about Farve. Where are you bashers now?

 

[sts911911]

but when time after time after time he is a KEY reason they lose their playoff games, enough is enough. I am sure it would be very easy to name 10 or 15 QBs right now I would much rather have going into a postseaon game but he is STILL regarded as ONE OF THE BEST?!?!? Why?

These last couple of games in the playoffs Favre has definatly hurt the packers, but to say he is the key reason is stupid. Favre had a horrible game but he was playing without Fergy and Walker and throwing to crap at WR other than Driver. And to say last season Favre was the key reason the packers lost to philly is just ignorant. To say Favre is the key reason why the packers lost the last two years is extremely stupid but I am not surprised coming from you. The packers D has let the team down the last two seasons when it came time in the playoffs, both times exposing the packers as pretenders. Now please list the 15 QB's you'd rather have over Favre...seriously.

 

[Tough As Nails]

but when time after time after time he is a KEY reason they lose their playoff games, enough is enough. I am sure it would be very easy to name 10 or 15 QBs right now I would much rather have going into a postseaon game but he is STILL regarded as ONE OF THE BEST?!?!? Why?

These last couple of games in the playoffs Favre has definatly hurt the packers, but to say he is the key reason is stupid. Favre had a horrible game but he was playing without Fergy and Walker and throwing to crap at WR other than Driver. And to say last season Favre was the key reason the packers lost to philly is just ignorant. To say Favre is the key reason why the packers lost the last two years is extremely stupid but I am not surprised coming from you. The packers D has let the team down the last two seasons when it came time in the playoffs, both times exposing the packers as pretenders. Now please list the 15 QB's you'd rather have over Favre...seriously.

I'm certainly not going to go as far as saying there are 15 QB's I'd rather have than Favre at this point. Far from it. But the fact remains...if you take Favre the last 7 years and I just draw any QB that played a playoff game from a hat, I am probably going to draw a name that has a better record and statistics than Favre. He has an under .500 record and below average statistics. Favre is a fantastic regular season QB...and a very,very average playoff QB.

 

[Mario Kart]

but when time after time after time he is a KEY reason they lose their playoff games, enough is enough. I am sure it would be very easy to name 10 or 15 QBs right now I would much rather have going into a postseaon game but he is STILL regarded as ONE OF THE BEST?!?!? Why?

These last couple of games in the playoffs Favre has definatly hurt the packers, but to say he is the key reason is stupid. Favre had a horrible game but he was playing without Fergy and Walker and throwing to crap at WR other than Driver. And to say last season Favre was the key reason the packers lost to philly is just ignorant. To say Favre is the key reason why the packers lost the last two years is extremely stupid but I am not surprised coming from you. The packers D has let the team down the last two seasons when it came time in the playoffs, both times exposing the packers as pretenders. Now please list the 15 QB's you'd rather have over Favre...seriously.

I'm certainly not going to go as far as saying there are 15 QB's I'd rather have than Favre at this point. Far from it. But the fact remains...if you take Favre the last 7 years and I just draw any QB that played a playoff game from a hat, I am probably going to draw a name that has a better record and statistics than Favre. He has an under .500 record and below average statistics. Favre is a fantastic regular season QB...and a very,very average playoff QB.

Why do people always say "defense wins championships?" Is it true... most of the time it is. Even St. Louis had a great defense in 1999 even though they had a great offense as well. Is Favre to blame for the loss yesterday?? No. Is far to blame for the loss last year to Philly?? No. There were more big plays given up yesterday by the defense then given up by Favre. Did Favre help the Packers win yesterday?? No. Who is at fault?? If you are a believer it comes from the top down... you have to look first at the play calls. Did Favre execute them?? Some he did, some he didnt. When the first time you get the ball and you are down 7-0 there is a tendency to want to score. The second time you get the ball and you are down 14-0 there is a tendency to want to score. How do you score quick?? Throw the ball.My questions arise more about the playcalling then anything yesterday. After a missed FG what are you throwing the ball for on the 12 yard line. Run the freaking ball. Favre threw the ball 33 times and the Packers ran the ball well but they did not run it enough. The game was lost due to the playcalling IMO. Did Favre help... no! Did the defense help... hell no! It is funny that people try to put the blame on the one guy that could have won the game for us even with the dismal defensive performance.

 

[Tough As Nails]

but when time after time after time he is a KEY reason they lose their playoff games, enough is enough. I am sure it would be very easy to name 10 or 15 QBs right now I would much rather have going into a postseaon game but he is STILL regarded as ONE OF THE BEST?!?!? Why?

These last couple of games in the playoffs Favre has definatly hurt the packers, but to say he is the key reason is stupid. Favre had a horrible game but he was playing without Fergy and Walker and throwing to crap at WR other than Driver. And to say last season Favre was the key reason the packers lost to philly is just ignorant. To say Favre is the key reason why the packers lost the last two years is extremely stupid but I am not surprised coming from you. The packers D has let the team down the last two seasons when it came time in the playoffs, both times exposing the packers as pretenders. Now please list the 15 QB's you'd rather have over Favre...seriously.

I'm certainly not going to go as far as saying there are 15 QB's I'd rather have than Favre at this point. Far from it. But the fact remains...if you take Favre the last 7 years and I just draw any QB that played a playoff game from a hat, I am probably going to draw a name that has a better record and statistics than Favre. He has an under .500 record and below average statistics. Favre is a fantastic regular season QB...and a very,very average playoff QB.

Why do people always say "defense wins championships?" Is it true... most of the time it is. Even St. Louis had a great defense in 1999 even though they had a great offense as well. Is Favre to blame for the loss yesterday?? No. Is far to blame for the loss last year to Philly?? No. There were more big plays given up yesterday by the defense then given up by Favre. Did Favre help the Packers win yesterday?? No. Who is at fault?? If you are a believer it comes from the top down... you have to look first at the play calls. Did Favre execute them?? Some he did, some he didnt. When the first time you get the ball and you are down 7-0 there is a tendency to want to score. The second time you get the ball and you are down 14-0 there is a tendency to want to score. How do you score quick?? Throw the ball.My questions arise more about the playcalling then anything yesterday. After a missed FG what are you throwing the ball for on the 12 yard line. Run the freaking ball. Favre threw the ball 33 times and the Packers ran the ball well but they did not run it enough. The game was lost due to the playcalling IMO. Did Favre help... no! Did the defense help... hell no! It is funny that people try to put the blame on the one guy that could have won the game for us even with the dismal defensive performance.

I'm not blaming the loss soley on Favre. I'm not blaming any of the losses solely on Favre. But he hasn't stepped up his game in the spotlight. There is no arguing that. He is the QB. He gets the credit when things are going good, he takes the blame when things go bad. Things have gone very bad for the Packers in the playoffs in the last 7 years so Favre will take more flak. I'm sure, if you asked him, he wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[14464]

but when time after time after time he is a KEY reason they lose their playoff games, enough is enough. I am sure it would be very easy to name 10 or 15 QBs right now I would much rather have going into a postseaon game but he is STILL regarded as ONE OF THE BEST?!?!? Why?

These last couple of games in the playoffs Favre has definatly hurt the packers, but to say he is the key reason is stupid. Favre had a horrible game but he was playing without Fergy and Walker and throwing to crap at WR other than Driver. And to say last season Favre was the key reason the packers lost to philly is just ignorant. To say Favre is the key reason why the packers lost the last two years is extremely stupid but I am not surprised coming from you. The packers D has let the team down the last two seasons when it came time in the playoffs, both times exposing the packers as pretenders. Now please list the 15 QB's you'd rather have over Favre...seriously.

Stop blaming the Packers D..or are you going to give their D the credit, not Farve, for their SB win?Last time I looked, their Defense kept them in the game when Farve kept throwing INT. Go back the last few years and PLEASE someone tell me when he won a HUGE game for them? I can't think of any after their won the NFC championship game in the year they lost the SB.Unfortunatly, you are like many other people (and media) ALWAYS blame someone else besides Farve but when they win a game vs a crappy team during the season you are first to give him ALL the credit.Sorry, it doesn't work that way. His stats in the regular season have looked solid at times, terrible at others but not since their SB run has Farve looked AS GREAT as many make him out to be.Why does Farve (and to a lesser extent but similar in nature Jake The Snake) get way more hype and alcolades than he deserves? Is it because he is a good old boy, aw shucks I'm from the dirty south, white QB? I go by playoff records, championships won if I am goint to annoint a QB who is "easly top 3 - 5" as many media people say about him. Sorry, his postseason record doesn't hold water. He is one of the WORST QBs since his SB yeat in regards to most INT and actually playing a KEY part in losing, heck he blew the Lambeau mystique!!!!!Please don't blame their defense, Farve did play against one of the worst defenses in the NFL, MIN so what's the excuse there Farve lovers?

 

[cracKer]

No matter how he ends his career, he's still the second best QB in the history of the game (behind Montana).

 

[Ghost Rider]

No matter how he ends his career, he's still the second best QB in the history of the game (behind Montana).

That is incorrect.

 

[Perfect Tommy]

No matter how he ends his career, he's still the second best QB in the history of the game (behind Montana).

That is incorrect.

You got it right, Ghosty. If Favre's career were to end today, he would go down in history as the best QB ever. Montana was a great QB, but just not quite at the level of Brett.

 

[cracKer]

Brett Favre has played in 20 playoff games.

First 10, including Super Bowl victory (7-3)

194/317(.61) 2430(7.7), 17/7

Second 10, including Super Bowl loss (4-6)

207/346(.60) 2472(7.2), 16/19

Pretty similar, except for interceptions and W/L (direct correlation)

John Elway22 playoff games

First 11, including 3 Super Bowl losses (6-5)

170/329(.52) 2641(8.0), 15/15

Second 11, including 2 Super Bowl wins (8-3)

185/321(.58) 2323(7.2), 12/6

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

heck he blew the Lambeau mystique!!!!!

:rotflmao:

 

[rhawkins68]

Note : QB Brett Favre not only finished with the fourth 4,000-yard passing season of his career, he also set an NFL record by throwing 30 or more touchdowns for the eighth time in his career. The Packers also finished the season with several other team records: Their 6,349 yards in total offense, 354 first downs and 382 completions all were most in franchise history.Anyone care to argue that Favre didn’t have a huge part in this?I will agree that when Favre has a dismal game it is an awful game, but take yesterdays game. When your down by 17 in the first 5 min of a game, it's going to be one of those games. You could see it in the whole team. Wr were out of sync, and Favre was out of sync. The running game hasn’t been solid for most of the season except for a handful of games, but I don’t think Green broke 100 in the last 7 or 8 games.In recent years, GB has been put on the field as one of the better teams, and a team to beat, and to be honest, with the defense they had this year, and the types of offenses they had to play this year, I was just happy to see them get back from their 1&4 start.Favre isn’t a modern QB by any means. The likes of Dante, McNabb, and Vick are totally different QB's, and they are all solid. Then you have Manning who is having a freakish year. But after those 4, who's your next QB? I would think Favre would come to mind. Now Vick isn’t considered a top qb this year, but if you look at the other 3, they all have those WR that are making a diff. This year Javon broke into that category, and even driver had a solid season. If we can keep Ferg health next year, then I wouldn't see it to be far fetched to see Favre leading the league in TD passes once again.I think Favre is one of the premier QB's of all time, and with out a question a top 10 next year, most likely a top 5, and a stretch #1. I think you also have to consider what he does for that team. There was rumors that it was turning into Greens team. . .that’s a joke. I love Green and all, but lets be honest, do any of you think that green could have had his season last year or even this year with Peterson at the helm?Bash Favre if you want, but you can't argue history. You mention all these other QB's being oh so great despite the fact that they are all seasoned vetrans and haven’t won a SB yet. Throw 100 td's in a season for all I care, but if manning chokes like he has in seasons past, then really what are we comparing?oh, and on the Brady comments. . .I give him credit for his 2 SB, but really it was the kicker that won both of those games, and it was a product of a well rounded team that got him there. Brady is a good qb the i think will be forgotten in the not so distant future.that’s my 2 cents. . .errr dollars I guess, take it for what its worth.I just hope to see him one more season and hopefully go out on a game that doesnt end on one of his int's.

Vick is not a top 5 QB and is not solid.

 

[Beergogglz]

No matter how he ends his career, he's still the second best QB in the history of the game (behind Montana).

That is incorrect.

You got it right, Ghosty. If Favre's career were to end today, he would go down in history as the best QB ever. Montana was a great QB, but just not quite at the level of Brett.

....said the hopelessly blind Favre-lovin' homer.

 

[Beergogglz]

heck he blew the Lambeau mystique!!!!!

:rotflmao:

What mystique? That #### has been gone for a few years now. It's just another place as far as opposing teams are concerned.....

 

[Beergogglz]

Note : QB Brett Favre not only finished with the fourth 4,000-yard passing season of his career, he also set an NFL record by throwing 30 or more touchdowns for the eighth time in his career. The Packers also finished the season with several other team records: Their 6,349 yards in total offense, 354 first downs and 382 completions all were most in franchise history.

Anyone care to argue that Favre didn’t have a huge part in this?

I will agree that when Favre has a dismal game it is an awful game, but take yesterdays game. When your down by 17 in the first 5 min of a game, it's going to be one of those games. You could see it in the whole team. Wr were out of sync, and Favre was out of sync. The running game hasn’t been solid for most of the season except for a handful of games, but I don’t think Green broke 100 in the last 7 or 8 games.

In recent years, GB has been put on the field as one of the better teams, and a team to beat, and to be honest, with the defense they had this year, and the types of offenses they had to play this year, I was just happy to see them get back from their 1&4 start.

Favre isn’t a modern QB by any means. The likes of Dante, McNabb, and Vick are totally different QB's, and they are all solid. Then you have Manning who is having a freakish year. But after those 4, who's your next QB? I would think Favre would come to mind. Now Vick isn’t considered a top qb this year, but if you look at the other 3, they all have those WR that are making a diff. This year Javon broke into that category, and even driver had a solid season. If we can keep Ferg health next year, then I wouldn't see it to be far fetched to see Favre leading the league in TD passes once again.

I think Favre is one of the premier QB's of all time, and with out a question a top 10 next year, most likely a top 5, and a stretch #1. I think you also have to consider what he does for that team. There was rumors that it was turning into Greens team. . .that’s a joke. I love Green and all, but lets be honest, do any of you think that green could have had his season last year or even this year with Peterson at the helm?

Bash Favre if you want, but you can't argue history. You mention all these other QB's being oh so great despite the fact that they are all seasoned vetrans and haven’t won a SB yet. Throw 100 td's in a season for all I care, but if manning chokes like he has in seasons past, then really what are we comparing?

oh, and on the Brady comments. . .I give him credit for his 2 SB, but really it was the kicker that won both of those games, and it was a product of a well rounded team that got him there. Brady is a good qb the i think will be forgotten in the not so distant future.

that’s my 2 cents. . .errr dollars I guess, take it for what its worth.

I just hope to see him one more season and hopefully go out on a game that doesnt end on one of his int's.

Vick is not a top 5 QB and is not solid.

Sure seems like the team wins when he plays though, don't it? He might not have the pretty stats like some QB's, but bottom line, Atlanta wins when he's behind center. That counts for something in your book, no?

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

heck he blew the Lambeau mystique!!!!!

:rotflmao:

What mystique? That #### has been gone for a few years now. It's just another place as far as opposing teams are concerned.....

I'm laughing at the comment that Favre blew the mystique. You guys are pathetic.

 

[Beergogglz]

heck he blew the Lambeau mystique!!!!!

:rotflmao:

What mystique? That #### has been gone for a few years now. It's just another place as far as opposing teams are concerned.....

I'm laughing at the comment that Favre blew the mystique. You guys are pathetic.

Sherman, the defense, Favre -- they're all to blame for the demise of the Lambwaaaah! mystique.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

heck he blew the Lambeau mystique!!!!!

:rotflmao:

What mystique? That #### has been gone for a few years now. It's just another place as far as opposing teams are concerned.....

I'm laughing at the comment that Favre blew the mystique. You guys are pathetic.

Sherman, the defense, Favre -- they're all to blame for the demise of the Lambwaaaah! mystique.

Tell that to your partner.

 

[tietzjd]

No matter how he ends his career, he's still the second best QB in the history of the game (behind Montana).

As of Now all Time Qb's:MontanaElwayFarveJonny UManning (On the Rise)

 

[sts911911]

but when time after time after time he is a KEY reason they lose their playoff games, enough is enough. I am sure it would be very easy to name 10 or 15 QBs right now I would much rather have going into a postseaon game but he is STILL regarded as ONE OF THE BEST?!?!? Why?

These last couple of games in the playoffs Favre has definatly hurt the packers, but to say he is the key reason is stupid. Favre had a horrible game but he was playing without Fergy and Walker and throwing to crap at WR other than Driver. And to say last season Favre was the key reason the packers lost to philly is just ignorant. To say Favre is the key reason why the packers lost the last two years is extremely stupid but I am not surprised coming from you. The packers D has let the team down the last two seasons when it came time in the playoffs, both times exposing the packers as pretenders. Now please list the 15 QB's you'd rather have over Favre...seriously.

Stop blaming the Packers D..or are you going to give their D the credit, not Farve, for their SB win?Last time I looked, their Defense kept them in the game when Farve kept throwing INT. Go back the last few years and PLEASE someone tell me when he won a HUGE game for them? I can't think of any after their won the NFC championship game in the year they lost the SB.Unfortunatly, you are like many other people (and media) ALWAYS blame someone else besides Farve but when they win a game vs a crappy team during the season you are first to give him ALL the credit.Sorry, it doesn't work that way. His stats in the regular season have looked solid at times, terrible at others but not since their SB run has Farve looked AS GREAT as many make him out to be.Why does Farve (and to a lesser extent but similar in nature Jake The Snake) get way more hype and alcolades than he deserves? Is it because he is a good old boy, aw shucks I'm from the dirty south, white QB? I go by playoff records, championships won if I am goint to annoint a QB who is "easly top 3 - 5" as many media people say about him. Sorry, his postseason record doesn't hold water. He is one of the WORST QBs since his SB yeat in regards to most INT and actually playing a KEY part in losing, heck he blew the Lambeau mystique!!!!!Please don't blame their defense, Farve did play against one of the worst defenses in the NFL, MIN so what's the excuse there Farve lovers?

When did I ever give Favre soley credit for the superbowl win? Please show me where I said that. I'm sure you won't answer this though, as whenever someone questions your claims you never provide an answer. Still waiting for the 15 QB's you'd rather have over Favre.Secondly are you going to seriously tell me that the Packers D kept them in the game?? Did you even watch the game, or did you miss how the D let the vikings jump out to a 17pt lead. Whenever the packers got close to the vikings the Vikings would score and answer right back. If you seriously think the Packers D wasn't a factor in the loss, and that Favre was soley to blame you are a complete #######.

 

[rhawkins68]

Note : QB Brett Favre not only finished with the fourth 4,000-yard passing season of his career, he also set an NFL record by throwing 30 or more touchdowns for the eighth time in his career. The Packers also finished the season with several other team records: Their 6,349 yards in total offense, 354 first downs and 382 completions all were most in franchise history.

Anyone care to argue that Favre didn’t have a huge part in this?

I will agree that when Favre has a dismal game it is an awful game, but take yesterdays game. When your down by 17 in the first 5 min of a game, it's going to be one of those games. You could see it in the whole team. Wr were out of sync, and Favre was out of sync. The running game hasn’t been solid for most of the season except for a handful of games, but I don’t think Green broke 100 in the last 7 or 8 games.

In recent years, GB has been put on the field as one of the better teams, and a team to beat, and to be honest, with the defense they had this year, and the types of offenses they had to play this year, I was just happy to see them get back from their 1&4 start.

Favre isn’t a modern QB by any means. The likes of Dante, McNabb, and Vick are totally different QB's, and they are all solid. Then you have Manning who is having a freakish year. But after those 4, who's your next QB? I would think Favre would come to mind. Now Vick isn’t considered a top qb this year, but if you look at the other 3, they all have those WR that are making a diff. This year Javon broke into that category, and even driver had a solid season. If we can keep Ferg health next year, then I wouldn't see it to be far fetched to see Favre leading the league in TD passes once again.

I think Favre is one of the premier QB's of all time, and with out a question a top 10 next year, most likely a top 5, and a stretch #1. I think you also have to consider what he does for that team. There was rumors that it was turning into Greens team. . .that’s a joke. I love Green and all, but lets be honest, do any of you think that green could have had his season last year or even this year with Peterson at the helm?

Bash Favre if you want, but you can't argue history. You mention all these other QB's being oh so great despite the fact that they are all seasoned vetrans and haven’t won a SB yet. Throw 100 td's in a season for all I care, but if manning chokes like he has in seasons past, then really what are we comparing?

oh, and on the Brady comments. . .I give him credit for his 2 SB, but really it was the kicker that won both of those games, and it was a product of a well rounded team that got him there. Brady is a good qb the i think will be forgotten in the not so distant future.

that’s my 2 cents. . .errr dollars I guess, take it for what its worth.

I just hope to see him one more season and hopefully go out on a game that doesnt end on one of his int's.

Vick is not a top 5 QB and is not solid.

Sure seems like the team wins when he plays though, don't it? He might not have the pretty stats like some QB's, but bottom line, Atlanta wins when he's behind center. That counts for something in your book, no?

It counts for something but he is not a top 5 or 10 QB. He is the piece they need to complete the team. There are alot of QB's that could fill in and do better witht he supporting cast.In the future he could get better just not now. Also, do not forget the falcons are something like 25-22 since he become the starter.

 

[rhawkins68]

No matter how he ends his career, he's still the second best QB in the history of the game (behind Montana).

That is incorrect.

You got it right, Ghosty. If Favre's career were to end today, he would go down in history as the best QB ever. Montana was a great QB, but just not quite at the level of Brett.

....said the hopelessly blind Favre-lovin' homer.

Montanta and Farve are very close and would be a toss-up and more likely homerism determing who is better.

 

[rhawkins68]

but when time after time after time he is a KEY reason they lose their playoff games, enough is enough. I am sure it would be very easy to name 10 or 15 QBs right now I would much rather have going into a postseaon game but he is STILL regarded as ONE OF THE BEST?!?!? Why?

These last couple of games in the playoffs Favre has definatly hurt the packers, but to say he is the key reason is stupid. Favre had a horrible game but he was playing without Fergy and Walker and throwing to crap at WR other than Driver. And to say last season Favre was the key reason the packers lost to philly is just ignorant. To say Favre is the key reason why the packers lost the last two years is extremely stupid but I am not surprised coming from you. The packers D has let the team down the last two seasons when it came time in the playoffs, both times exposing the packers as pretenders. Now please list the 15 QB's you'd rather have over Favre...seriously.

Stop blaming the Packers D..or are you going to give their D the credit, not Farve, for their SB win?Last time I looked, their Defense kept them in the game when Farve kept throwing INT. Go back the last few years and PLEASE someone tell me when he won a HUGE game for them? I can't think of any after their won the NFC championship game in the year they lost the SB.Unfortunatly, you are like many other people (and media) ALWAYS blame someone else besides Farve but when they win a game vs a crappy team during the season you are first to give him ALL the credit.Sorry, it doesn't work that way. His stats in the regular season have looked solid at times, terrible at others but not since their SB run has Farve looked AS GREAT as many make him out to be.Why does Farve (and to a lesser extent but similar in nature Jake The Snake) get way more hype and alcolades than he deserves? Is it because he is a good old boy, aw shucks I'm from the dirty south, white QB? I go by playoff records, championships won if I am goint to annoint a QB who is "easly top 3 - 5" as many media people say about him. Sorry, his postseason record doesn't hold water. He is one of the WORST QBs since his SB yeat in regards to most INT and actually playing a KEY part in losing, heck he blew the Lambeau mystique!!!!!Please don't blame their defense, Farve did play against one of the worst defenses in the NFL, MIN so what's the excuse there Farve lovers?

When did I ever give Favre soley credit for the superbowl win? Please show me where I said that. I'm sure you won't answer this though, as whenever someone questions your claims you never provide an answer. Still waiting for the 15 QB's you'd rather have over Favre.Secondly are you going to seriously tell me that the Packers D kept them in the game?? Did you even watch the game, or did you miss how the D let the vikings jump out to a 17pt lead. Whenever the packers got close to the vikings the Vikings would score and answer right back. If you seriously think the Packers D wasn't a factor in the loss, and that Favre was soley to blame you are a complete #######.

I do not think you will see the list of 15. It's just talk and if he comes up with 15 he will be exposed. He would be hard pressed to come up with 10 and back them up. So do not hold your breath.

 

[Beergogglz]

Note : QB Brett Favre not only finished with the fourth 4,000-yard passing season of his career, he also set an NFL record by throwing 30 or more touchdowns for the eighth time in his career. The Packers also finished the season with several other team records: Their 6,349 yards in total offense, 354 first downs and 382 completions all were most in franchise history.

Anyone care to argue that Favre didn’t have a huge part in this?

I will agree that when Favre has a dismal game it is an awful game, but take yesterdays game. When your down by 17 in the first 5 min of a game, it's going to be one of those games. You could see it in the whole team. Wr were out of sync, and Favre was out of sync. The running game hasn’t been solid for most of the season except for a handful of games, but I don’t think Green broke 100 in the last 7 or 8 games.

In recent years, GB has been put on the field as one of the better teams, and a team to beat, and to be honest, with the defense they had this year, and the types of offenses they had to play this year, I was just happy to see them get back from their 1&4 start.

Favre isn’t a modern QB by any means. The likes of Dante, McNabb, and Vick are totally different QB's, and they are all solid. Then you have Manning who is having a freakish year. But after those 4, who's your next QB? I would think Favre would come to mind. Now Vick isn’t considered a top qb this year, but if you look at the other 3, they all have those WR that are making a diff. This year Javon broke into that category, and even driver had a solid season. If we can keep Ferg health next year, then I wouldn't see it to be far fetched to see Favre leading the league in TD passes once again.

I think Favre is one of the premier QB's of all time, and with out a question a top 10 next year, most likely a top 5, and a stretch #1. I think you also have to consider what he does for that team. There was rumors that it was turning into Greens team. . .that’s a joke. I love Green and all, but lets be honest, do any of you think that green could have had his season last year or even this year with Peterson at the helm?

Bash Favre if you want, but you can't argue history. You mention all these other QB's being oh so great despite the fact that they are all seasoned vetrans and haven’t won a SB yet. Throw 100 td's in a season for all I care, but if manning chokes like he has in seasons past, then really what are we comparing?

oh, and on the Brady comments. . .I give him credit for his 2 SB, but really it was the kicker that won both of those games, and it was a product of a well rounded team that got him there. Brady is a good qb the i think will be forgotten in the not so distant future.

that’s my 2 cents. . .errr dollars I guess, take it for what its worth.

I just hope to see him one more season and hopefully go out on a game that doesnt end on one of his int's.

Vick is not a top 5 QB and is not solid.

Sure seems like the team wins when he plays though, don't it? He might not have the pretty stats like some QB's, but bottom line, Atlanta wins when he's behind center. That counts for something in your book, no?

It counts for something but he is not a top 5 or 10 QB. He is the piece they need to complete the team. There are alot of QB's that could fill in and do better witht he supporting cast.In the future he could get better just not now. Also, do not forget the falcons are something like 25-22 since he become the starter.

Just a "piece," huh? Atlanta must be brain-damaged to hand him a $130M contract then, since, as you said, any number of QB's out there could step in and do just as well.By the way, where'd you get the 25-22 stat from? Just made it up? How 'bout a

 

[14464]

No matter how he ends his career, he's still the second best QB in the history of the game (behind Montana).

how so? Curious to know why you feel this way. One SB win, blew MORE playoff games against many teams who were underdogs and had terrible stats in postseason games. Because of his longevity perhaps?

 

[14464]

Brett Favre has played in 20 playoff games.

First 10, including Super Bowl victory (7-3)

194/317(.61) 2430(7.7), 17/7

Second 10, including Super Bowl loss (4-6)

207/346(.60) 2472(7.2), 16/19

Pretty similar, except for interceptions and W/L (direct correlation)

John Elway22 playoff games

First 11, including 3 Super Bowl losses (6-5)

170/329(.52) 2641(8.0), 15/15

Second 11, including 2 Super Bowl wins (8-3)

185/321(.58) 2323(7.2), 12/6

Didn't John Elway win a SB vs. GB and was the underdog??? Yep.

 

[14464]

heck he blew the Lambeau mystique!!!!!

:rotflmao:

Look at the playoffs for the last decade and you won't be laughing

 

[14464]

heck he blew the Lambeau mystique!!!!!

:rotflmao:

What mystique? That #### has been gone for a few years now. It's just another place as far as opposing teams are concerned.....

Same with KC being a hard place for a road team to win, that and Lambeau tough to win are two of the biggest jokes that people think are true but clearly aren't.

 

[14464]

Note : QB Brett Favre not only finished with the fourth 4,000-yard passing season of his career, he also set an NFL record by throwing 30 or more touchdowns for the eighth time in his career. The Packers also finished the season with several other team records: Their 6,349 yards in total offense, 354 first downs and 382 completions all were most in franchise history.Anyone care to argue that Favre didn’t have a huge part in this?I will agree that when Favre has a dismal game it is an awful game, but take yesterdays game. When your down by 17 in the first 5 min of a game, it's going to be one of those games. You could see it in the whole team. Wr were out of sync, and Favre was out of sync. The running game hasn’t been solid for most of the season except for a handful of games, but I don’t think Green broke 100 in the last 7 or 8 games.In recent years, GB has been put on the field as one of the better teams, and a team to beat, and to be honest, with the defense they had this year, and the types of offenses they had to play this year, I was just happy to see them get back from their 1&4 start.Favre isn’t a modern QB by any means. The likes of Dante, McNabb, and Vick are totally different QB's, and they are all solid. Then you have Manning who is having a freakish year. But after those 4, who's your next QB? I would think Favre would come to mind. Now Vick isn’t considered a top qb this year, but if you look at the other 3, they all have those WR that are making a diff. This year Javon broke into that category, and even driver had a solid season. If we can keep Ferg health next year, then I wouldn't see it to be far fetched to see Favre leading the league in TD passes once again.I think Favre is one of the premier QB's of all time, and with out a question a top 10 next year, most likely a top 5, and a stretch #1. I think you also have to consider what he does for that team. There was rumors that it was turning into Greens team. . .that’s a joke. I love Green and all, but lets be honest, do any of you think that green could have had his season last year or even this year with Peterson at the helm?Bash Favre if you want, but you can't argue history. You mention all these other QB's being oh so great despite the fact that they are all seasoned vetrans and haven’t won a SB yet. Throw 100 td's in a season for all I care, but if manning chokes like he has in seasons past, then really what are we comparing?oh, and on the Brady comments. . .I give him credit for his 2 SB, but really it was the kicker that won both of those games, and it was a product of a well rounded team that got him there. Brady is a good qb the i think will be forgotten in the not so distant future.that’s my 2 cents. . .errr dollars I guess, take it for what its worth.I just hope to see him one more season and hopefully go out on a game that doesnt end on one of his int's.

Vick is not a top 5 QB and is not solid.

wasn't vick the guy who came in a few years ago and handed Farve his #### on a platter? Just like MIN a road DOME team coming into cold Green Bay and showing Farve how it's done. What happened to the Lambeau mystique?

 

[rhawkins68]

Note : QB Brett Favre not only finished with the fourth 4,000-yard passing season of his career, he also set an NFL record by throwing 30 or more touchdowns for the eighth time in his career. The Packers also finished the season with several other team records: Their 6,349 yards in total offense, 354 first downs and 382 completions all were most in franchise history.

Anyone care to argue that Favre didn’t have a huge part in this?

I will agree that when Favre has a dismal game it is an awful game, but take yesterdays game. When your down by 17 in the first 5 min of a game, it's going to be one of those games. You could see it in the whole team. Wr were out of sync, and Favre was out of sync. The running game hasn’t been solid for most of the season except for a handful of games, but I don’t think Green broke 100 in the last 7 or 8 games.

In recent years, GB has been put on the field as one of the better teams, and a team to beat, and to be honest, with the defense they had this year, and the types of offenses they had to play this year, I was just happy to see them get back from their 1&4 start.

Favre isn’t a modern QB by any means. The likes of Dante, McNabb, and Vick are totally different QB's, and they are all solid. Then you have Manning who is having a freakish year. But after those 4, who's your next QB? I would think Favre would come to mind. Now Vick isn’t considered a top qb this year, but if you look at the other 3, they all have those WR that are making a diff. This year Javon broke into that category, and even driver had a solid season. If we can keep Ferg health next year, then I wouldn't see it to be far fetched to see Favre leading the league in TD passes once again.

I think Favre is one of the premier QB's of all time, and with out a question a top 10 next year, most likely a top 5, and a stretch #1. I think you also have to consider what he does for that team. There was rumors that it was turning into Greens team. . .that’s a joke. I love Green and all, but lets be honest, do any of you think that green could have had his season last year or even this year with Peterson at the helm?

Bash Favre if you want, but you can't argue history. You mention all these other QB's being oh so great despite the fact that they are all seasoned vetrans and haven’t won a SB yet. Throw 100 td's in a season for all I care, but if manning chokes like he has in seasons past, then really what are we comparing?

oh, and on the Brady comments. . .I give him credit for his 2 SB, but really it was the kicker that won both of those games, and it was a product of a well rounded team that got him there. Brady is a good qb the i think will be forgotten in the not so distant future.

that’s my 2 cents. . .errr dollars I guess, take it for what its worth.

I just hope to see him one more season and hopefully go out on a game that doesnt end on one of his int's.

Vick is not a top 5 QB and is not solid.

Sure seems like the team wins when he plays though, don't it? He might not have the pretty stats like some QB's, but bottom line, Atlanta wins when he's behind center. That counts for something in your book, no?

It counts for something but he is not a top 5 or 10 QB. He is the piece they need to complete the team. There are alot of QB's that could fill in and do better witht he supporting cast.In the future he could get better just not now. Also, do not forget the falcons are something like 25-22 since he become the starter.

Just a "piece," huh? Atlanta must be brain-damaged to hand him a $130M contract then, since, as you said, any number of QB's out there could step in and do just as well.By the way, where'd you get the 25-22 stat from? Just made it up? How 'bout a

He became the starter in 2002 and yes they are nuts handing him that money..http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atlindex.htm

 

[rhawkins68]

No matter how he ends his career, he's still the second best QB in the history of the game (behind Montana).

how so? Curious to know why you feel this way. One SB win, blew MORE playoff games against many teams who were underdogs and had terrible stats in postseason games. Because of his longevity perhaps?

The packers have won more games since he has been the starter (13 years or so) than any other team. Also, look at the records he will be holding or close to,It's easy to write him off if you do not like him. Be open minded, he is one of the greats.

 

[rhawkins68]

Note : QB Brett Favre not only finished with the fourth 4,000-yard passing season of his career, he also set an NFL record by throwing 30 or more touchdowns for the eighth time in his career. The Packers also finished the season with several other team records: Their 6,349 yards in total offense, 354 first downs and 382 completions all were most in franchise history.Anyone care to argue that Favre didn’t have a huge part in this?I will agree that when Favre has a dismal game it is an awful game, but take yesterdays game. When your down by 17 in the first 5 min of a game, it's going to be one of those games. You could see it in the whole team. Wr were out of sync, and Favre was out of sync. The running game hasn’t been solid for most of the season except for a handful of games, but I don’t think Green broke 100 in the last 7 or 8 games.In recent years, GB has been put on the field as one of the better teams, and a team to beat, and to be honest, with the defense they had this year, and the types of offenses they had to play this year, I was just happy to see them get back from their 1&4 start.Favre isn’t a modern QB by any means. The likes of Dante, McNabb, and Vick are totally different QB's, and they are all solid. Then you have Manning who is having a freakish year. But after those 4, who's your next QB? I would think Favre would come to mind. Now Vick isn’t considered a top qb this year, but if you look at the other 3, they all have those WR that are making a diff. This year Javon broke into that category, and even driver had a solid season. If we can keep Ferg health next year, then I wouldn't see it to be far fetched to see Favre leading the league in TD passes once again.I think Favre is one of the premier QB's of all time, and with out a question a top 10 next year, most likely a top 5, and a stretch #1. I think you also have to consider what he does for that team. There was rumors that it was turning into Greens team. . .that’s a joke. I love Green and all, but lets be honest, do any of you think that green could have had his season last year or even this year with Peterson at the helm?Bash Favre if you want, but you can't argue history. You mention all these other QB's being oh so great despite the fact that they are all seasoned vetrans and haven’t won a SB yet. Throw 100 td's in a season for all I care, but if manning chokes like he has in seasons past, then really what are we comparing?oh, and on the Brady comments. . .I give him credit for his 2 SB, but really it was the kicker that won both of those games, and it was a product of a well rounded team that got him there. Brady is a good qb the i think will be forgotten in the not so distant future.that’s my 2 cents. . .errr dollars I guess, take it for what its worth.I just hope to see him one more season and hopefully go out on a game that doesnt end on one of his int's.

Vick is not a top 5 QB and is not solid.

wasn't vick the guy who came in a few years ago and handed Farve his #### on a platter? Just like MIN a road DOME team coming into cold Green Bay and showing Farve how it's done. What happened to the Lambeau mystique?

The Falcons beat the Packers that day. Vick had help I am pretty sure. The FALCONS were the better team.

 

[14464]

but when time after time after time he is a KEY reason they lose their playoff games, enough is enough. I am sure it would be very easy to name 10 or 15 QBs right now I would much rather have going into a postseaon game but he is STILL regarded as ONE OF THE BEST?!?!? Why?

These last couple of games in the playoffs Favre has definatly hurt the packers, but to say he is the key reason is stupid. Favre had a horrible game but he was playing without Fergy and Walker and throwing to crap at WR other than Driver. And to say last season Favre was the key reason the packers lost to philly is just ignorant. To say Favre is the key reason why the packers lost the last two years is extremely stupid but I am not surprised coming from you. The packers D has let the team down the last two seasons when it came time in the playoffs, both times exposing the packers as pretenders. Now please list the 15 QB's you'd rather have over Favre...seriously.

Stop blaming the Packers D..or are you going to give their D the credit, not Farve, for their SB win?Last time I looked, their Defense kept them in the game when Farve kept throwing INT. Go back the last few years and PLEASE someone tell me when he won a HUGE game for them? I can't think of any after their won the NFC championship game in the year they lost the SB.Unfortunatly, you are like many other people (and media) ALWAYS blame someone else besides Farve but when they win a game vs a crappy team during the season you are first to give him ALL the credit.Sorry, it doesn't work that way. His stats in the regular season have looked solid at times, terrible at others but not since their SB run has Farve looked AS GREAT as many make him out to be.Why does Farve (and to a lesser extent but similar in nature Jake The Snake) get way more hype and alcolades than he deserves? Is it because he is a good old boy, aw shucks I'm from the dirty south, white QB? I go by playoff records, championships won if I am goint to annoint a QB who is "easly top 3 - 5" as many media people say about him. Sorry, his postseason record doesn't hold water. He is one of the WORST QBs since his SB yeat in regards to most INT and actually playing a KEY part in losing, heck he blew the Lambeau mystique!!!!!Please don't blame their defense, Farve did play against one of the worst defenses in the NFL, MIN so what's the excuse there Farve lovers?

When did I ever give Favre soley credit for the superbowl win? Please show me where I said that. I'm sure you won't answer this though, as whenever someone questions your claims you never provide an answer. Still waiting for the 15 QB's you'd rather have over Favre.Secondly are you going to seriously tell me that the Packers D kept them in the game?? Did you even watch the game, or did you miss how the D let the vikings jump out to a 17pt lead. Whenever the packers got close to the vikings the Vikings would score and answer right back. If you seriously think the Packers D wasn't a factor in the loss, and that Favre was soley to blame you are a complete #######.

With the studs GB has on offense I would have NO problem having the following play instead of Farve:ManningBradyDonovanDCulpVickRoethlisbergerMcNairBulgerGreenBrooksDelhommeBrezeCarrPalmerBJohnsonPenningtonManning(upside)To be honest, there are more QBs I would take than Farve.Hasselbeck and Kerry Collins are a toss up right now with Farve. Not completely decided.

 

[14464]

Note : QB Brett Favre not only finished with the fourth 4,000-yard passing season of his career, he also set an NFL record by throwing 30 or more touchdowns for the eighth time in his career. The Packers also finished the season with several other team records: Their 6,349 yards in total offense, 354 first downs and 382 completions all were most in franchise history.Anyone care to argue that Favre didn’t have a huge part in this?I will agree that when Favre has a dismal game it is an awful game, but take yesterdays game. When your down by 17 in the first 5 min of a game, it's going to be one of those games. You could see it in the whole team. Wr were out of sync, and Favre was out of sync. The running game hasn’t been solid for most of the season except for a handful of games, but I don’t think Green broke 100 in the last 7 or 8 games.In recent years, GB has been put on the field as one of the better teams, and a team to beat, and to be honest, with the defense they had this year, and the types of offenses they had to play this year, I was just happy to see them get back from their 1&4 start.Favre isn’t a modern QB by any means. The likes of Dante, McNabb, and Vick are totally different QB's, and they are all solid. Then you have Manning who is having a freakish year. But after those 4, who's your next QB? I would think Favre would come to mind. Now Vick isn’t considered a top qb this year, but if you look at the other 3, they all have those WR that are making a diff. This year Javon broke into that category, and even driver had a solid season. If we can keep Ferg health next year, then I wouldn't see it to be far fetched to see Favre leading the league in TD passes once again.I think Favre is one of the premier QB's of all time, and with out a question a top 10 next year, most likely a top 5, and a stretch #1. I think you also have to consider what he does for that team. There was rumors that it was turning into Greens team. . .that’s a joke. I love Green and all, but lets be honest, do any of you think that green could have had his season last year or even this year with Peterson at the helm?Bash Favre if you want, but you can't argue history. You mention all these other QB's being oh so great despite the fact that they are all seasoned vetrans and haven’t won a SB yet. Throw 100 td's in a season for all I care, but if manning chokes like he has in seasons past, then really what are we comparing?oh, and on the Brady comments. . .I give him credit for his 2 SB, but really it was the kicker that won both of those games, and it was a product of a well rounded team that got him there. Brady is a good qb the i think will be forgotten in the not so distant future.that’s my 2 cents. . .errr dollars I guess, take it for what its worth.I just hope to see him one more season and hopefully go out on a game that doesnt end on one of his int's.

Vick is not a top 5 QB and is not solid.

wasn't vick the guy who came in a few years ago and handed Farve his #### on a platter? Just like MIN a road DOME team coming into cold Green Bay and showing Farve how it's done. What happened to the Lambeau mystique?

The Falcons beat the Packers that day. Vick had help I am pretty sure. The FALCONS were the better team.

They were? GB was a nice favorite so how was the Falcons and an Vick in his first playoff game a better team? Why can't some people open their eyes? Last time I looked, Vegas doesn't award the FAVORITE team to get points.

 

[Beergogglz]

Note : QB Brett Favre not only finished with the fourth 4,000-yard passing season of his career, he also set an NFL record by throwing 30 or more touchdowns for the eighth time in his career. The Packers also finished the season with several other team records: Their 6,349 yards in total offense, 354 first downs and 382 completions all were most in franchise history.

Anyone care to argue that Favre didn’t have a huge part in this?

I will agree that when Favre has a dismal game it is an awful game, but take yesterdays game. When your down by 17 in the first 5 min of a game, it's going to be one of those games. You could see it in the whole team. Wr were out of sync, and Favre was out of sync. The running game hasn’t been solid for most of the season except for a handful of games, but I don’t think Green broke 100 in the last 7 or 8 games.

In recent years, GB has been put on the field as one of the better teams, and a team to beat, and to be honest, with the defense they had this year, and the types of offenses they had to play this year, I was just happy to see them get back from their 1&4 start.

Favre isn’t a modern QB by any means. The likes of Dante, McNabb, and Vick are totally different QB's, and they are all solid. Then you have Manning who is having a freakish year. But after those 4, who's your next QB? I would think Favre would come to mind. Now Vick isn’t considered a top qb this year, but if you look at the other 3, they all have those WR that are making a diff. This year Javon broke into that category, and even driver had a solid season. If we can keep Ferg health next year, then I wouldn't see it to be far fetched to see Favre leading the league in TD passes once again.

I think Favre is one of the premier QB's of all time, and with out a question a top 10 next year, most likely a top 5, and a stretch #1. I think you also have to consider what he does for that team. There was rumors that it was turning into Greens team. . .that’s a joke. I love Green and all, but lets be honest, do any of you think that green could have had his season last year or even this year with Peterson at the helm?

Bash Favre if you want, but you can't argue history. You mention all these other QB's being oh so great despite the fact that they are all seasoned vetrans and haven’t won a SB yet. Throw 100 td's in a season for all I care, but if manning chokes like he has in seasons past, then really what are we comparing?

oh, and on the Brady comments. . .I give him credit for his 2 SB, but really it was the kicker that won both of those games, and it was a product of a well rounded team that got him there. Brady is a good qb the i think will be forgotten in the not so distant future.

that’s my 2 cents. . .errr dollars I guess, take it for what its worth.

I just hope to see him one more season and hopefully go out on a game that doesnt end on one of his int's.

Vick is not a top 5 QB and is not solid.

Sure seems like the team wins when he plays though, don't it? He might not have the pretty stats like some QB's, but bottom line, Atlanta wins when he's behind center. That counts for something in your book, no?

It counts for something but he is not a top 5 or 10 QB. He is the piece they need to complete the team. There are alot of QB's that could fill in and do better witht he supporting cast.In the future he could get better just not now. Also, do not forget the falcons are something like 25-22 since he become the starter.

Just a "piece," huh? Atlanta must be brain-damaged to hand him a $130M contract then, since, as you said, any number of QB's out there could step in and do just as well.By the way, where'd you get the 25-22 stat from? Just made it up? How 'bout a

He became the starter in 2002 and yes they are nuts handing him that money..http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atlindex.htm

Uh yeah, maybe it would've helped had you looked a bit deeper than just the teams W-L record the past 3 years, eh? As of the day he signed that monstrous contract, Vick's record is actually 24-12-1. Guess that means they're 1-10 when he misses a game. I'd say he's pretty valuable, wouldn't you? Vick signs record $130 million deal

 

[Mario Kart]

Why can't some people open their eyes? Last time I looked, Vegas doesn't award the FAVORITE team to get points.

What a tool you are. Do you know how Vegas works?? They give the point spreads based on who is betting what team. The game last Sunday I would assume Vegas made a killing on since many people in Wisconsin and other places were surely betting the Packers. They had good reason too as well to bet the Packers based on recent history between the two teams. If we had a "tool" smilie everybody would be lacing you with them because that is what you simply are.

 

[Beergogglz]

Hey, anyone seen Pony Boy? I thought for sure he'd come around and visit just as he did when Princess Favre had a nice game on Christmas Eve....