Does Michael Vick deserve the opp to compete in 2009? (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

There is a PR nightmare of sorts if you go out and sign Vick. I think most fans would be forgiving of him and probably don't really care that much about the gambling, but when the PETA folks camp out and protest outside stadiums, not such a good situation.

But more than the PR nightmare, does Vick deserve a chance to compete this year? Should Goodell just call it a day with the prison sentence? Should he drop the hammer and ban Vick for life? Should he ban Vick for a year? Should he suspend Vick at all?

 

[money.never.sleeps]

Personally feel that Vick has paid his debt to society and if the NFL wants to suspend him 4-8 games I think he would understand.

Regardless I do not believe he should be suspended more than 4-8 games max this year and should be reinstated if he complies with Goodell's outlines for him off the field.

 

[buster c]

1 year ban seems to be an appropriate and Goodellian suspension. He has to be suspended by the NFL for the prison time. Others have served suspensions for less.

 

[shredhead]

Let him play this year starting in game 1 if anyone is willing to sign him. He has paid his debt to society and it should be over. He has already sat out of football for long enough. The NFL suspension should be retro dated and served concurrently with the prison sentence.

 

[hotdogcollars]

Given my username and chosen business, my answer to this question is obvious. Either way, I do not envy Roger Goodell for having to make this decision. Either way he chooses, he has angered 50% of his fan base.

Being someone who has dedicated his life to pets and pet owners, I cannot watch anyone who would throw defenseless house pets into a ring with trained assassins. Dog fighting is horrible and cruel, but the aspect of this case that i cannot get over is how Vick and his cohorts threw in family pets to be dismantled by far larger, stronger, and more vicious animals.

Whatever team Vick ends up on, and i am sure he will play eventually, I think we will silently boycott that team. No sales, no merchandise, no ads for any team that employs him. How can we, in good conscience, sell items for pets with the logo of a team that pays Mike Vick millions to play a game?

 

[Tau837]

There is a lot of related discussion in these threads, including a couple of potentially related polls:

Has Vick been blackballed?

What's your guess on the chances Michael Vick is on an NFL roster

Politically correct thread, will Vick get signed by anyone?, Is he worth a roster spot in dynasty leagues?

Will Vick get blackballed from the NFL?

Michael Vick, 2009 and beyond

 

[Wadsworth]

Let him play this year starting in game 1 if anyone is willing to sign him. He has paid his debt to society and it should be over. He has already sat out of football for long enough. The NFL suspension should be retro dated and served concurrently with the prison sentence.

dittoThe guy broke the law and did some pretty nasty things, but he has already paid a huge price it's time to move on. If a team wants him he should be allowed to play.

 

[hotdogcollars]

There is a lot of related discussion in these threads, including a couple of potentially related polls:

Has Vick been blackballed?

What's your guess on the chances Michael Vick is on an NFL roster

Politically correct thread, will Vick get signed by anyone?, Is he worth a roster spot in dynasty leagues?

Will Vick get blackballed from the NFL?

Michael Vick, 2009 and beyond

Thanks JWB. I dont mind new threads for old topics as most threads descend into name calling and ancillary arguments by page 2 or 3

 

[shredhead]

Let him play this year starting in game 1 if anyone is willing to sign him. He has paid his debt to society and it should be over. He has already sat out of football for long enough. The NFL suspension should be retro dated and served concurrently with the prison sentence.

dittoThe guy broke the law and did some pretty nasty things, but he has already paid a huge price it's time to move on. If a team wants him he should be allowed to play.

I actually thought the first response to my post would be negative. I'm glad you agree with me. Don't get me wrong fellas, I absolutely abhor (look at me, I can use fancy words) what he did, but the fact remains that he committed the crime and paid his time. You can argue that he should have gotten more punishment if you wish, but we have to live with what our justice system decided. Let the man move ahead with his life, and if he proves he can still play football, then so be it.

 

[menobrown]

Even if he gets in the league this year the contract probably won't be much. He's got to get back into the league, get a chance to play and perform well before he can even put himself in a position to make the kind of big money he needs to get out of debt. He's paid more than enough already in my opinion and it's time. It's time to let him back so he can work on positioning himself for a better contract and right fit for 2010.

 

[froafro]

I am having a hard time rationalizing Vick playing ever again in professional sports. Guess I'm crazy since everyone else seems to think that he should eventually be given the chance. He paid his debt to society....yes, but to be a professional athlete, aren't you supposed to live by certain standards? How did American sportsmen sway from that so much in the last couple decades? I say its time to start making examples of this sort of thing commish. We're not talking about steroids or meth amphetamines or coke or even beating his girlfriend up . This guy repeatedly let dogs kill each other for money and entertainment. Does he really deserve another chance to represent a NFL football team in your city? I don't want him.

Go Bears! You must keep the city rolling after the Cubs finally win it this year.

 

[Ruffrodys05]

I really just don't give a rat's patootie if he is wrapping "Nathan's natural casing w/mustard n onion" links for a living.....so I did not vote. Also, there was not a "Don't care" option on this poll. Just sayin'

 

[Bri]

1 year ban seems to be an appropriate and Goodellian suspension. He has to be suspended by the NFL for the prison time. Others have served suspensions for less.

he's already served that in the NFL. He was suspended indefinitely last summer wasn't he?I hate that I think this now but, the guy paid his debt to society and he paid more than any other dope that was involved in dog fighting so...I guess he's gotta be given the chance to play.

 

[two_dollars]

Playing in the NFL is a privledge not a right. If no one chooses to sign him, that's fine with me. I don't think there are really that many teams out there he can help anymore anyway.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I am having a hard time rationalizing Vick playing ever again in professional sports. Guess I'm crazy since everyone else seems to think that he should eventually be given the chance. He paid his debt to society....yes, but to be a professional athlete, aren't you supposed to live by certain standards? How did American sportsmen sway from that so much in the last couple decades? I say its time to start making examples of this sort of thing commish. We're not talking about steroids or meth amphetamines or coke or even beating his girlfriend up . This guy repeatedly let dogs kill each other for money and entertainment. Does he really deserve another chance to represent a NFL football team in your city? I don't want him.

Go Bears! You must keep the city rolling after the Cubs finally win it this year.

Sportsmen have always been the same. They're just a slice of society with good and bad. I don't think they've swayed any more than the rest of society over the last couple decades. There private lives just aren't so private anymore.

 

[buster c]

1 year ban seems to be an appropriate and Goodellian suspension. He has to be suspended by the NFL for the prison time. Others have served suspensions for less.

he's already served that in the NFL. He was suspended indefinitely last summer wasn't he?I hate that I think this now but, the guy paid his debt to society and he paid more than any other dope that was involved in dog fighting so...I guess he's gotta be given the chance to play.

I may be wrong, but I thought the "indefinite" suspension came before the prison sentence. I don't know what good an NFL suspension would do if the guy can't get to the stadium and suit up for a game. Seems like a suspension with no teeth. Now that he can physically play, suspend him. Otherwise, he has had no real NFL penalty for being a convicted felon.

 

[pollardsvision]

Certainly. I'd love for the Jags to sign him and will root for any team that does.

Also, I'm excited about the UFL and I'll be even more excited if that ends up being Vick's best (only) option.

With the UFL, a big Goodell suspension wouldn't be quite as disasterous for Vick's career. He could go play with UFL Orlando (they have his rights, I think), get in 6-7 games in during Oct/Nov. (if he can beat out Brooks Bollinger), and be an even more attractive commodity to the NFL.

I hope the NFL doesn't suspend him, but it's nice to know that somehow, someway, he'll be on the field.

 

[Bri]

1 year ban seems to be an appropriate and Goodellian suspension. He has to be suspended by the NFL for the prison time. Others have served suspensions for less.

he's already served that in the NFL. He was suspended indefinitely last summer wasn't he?I hate that I think this now but, the guy paid his debt to society and he paid more than any other dope that was involved in dog fighting so...I guess he's gotta be given the chance to play.

I may be wrong, but I thought the "indefinite" suspension came before the prison sentence. I don't know what good an NFL suspension would do if the guy can't get to the stadium and suit up for a game. Seems like a suspension with no teeth. Now that he can physically play, suspend him. Otherwise, he has had no real NFL penalty for being a convicted felon.

that's a fair point.The thing that upset me last summer was reading about people like the "dealing with dogs" HBO special where these people did such cruel things to dogs or animals in general and our society just doesn't "hit em hard enough". Our laws are(or were) so weak it's horrible by our state and national governments. I want to say "you've gotta go read what some people have done and the weak sentence to follow" but I sure wish I never did. Anyhow, I believe Vick has been punished the most or nearly the most of anyone that ever(or recently?) committed crimes against dogs. He's been made an example of and I guess I wanted that to happen. When is it enough? At what point does it appear that the NFL is stricter against killing dogs(Vick) than killing a person(Leonard Little) due to DUI? IMO Goodell was to straighten this type of stuff out and he wasn't the commish when Little was up to no good so...let's see what he does.I'm quite annoyed that he was doing this at 8 years old and we can't put his parents in jail or at least fine them in some way. As someone else said on the radio yesterday, it is very possible/very likely, this dog fighting stuff was quite normal to him since he grew up around it. Sure if you grow up around crack dealers you hopefully don't become one as a grownup but, has he seen people get arrested for this? seen society come down hard on this as being something wrong? There is something very weird and twisted in this having begun at 8 years old and him never getting in trouble for it before. I've resolved to the fact that he'll be part of society again and probably play again. I'm rrrrrrreally fighting the idea of feeling bad for the guy. I just don't want to one bit so I haven't read too much about the 8 years old stuff.

 

[Phurfur]

I said no. The guy lied to the Feds and he lied to Goodell. He only came clean when his buddies turned on him. I think Vick is sorry he got caught and nothing more. I am getting pretty sick of watching this kind of low character scum in the NFL. Who needs him?

 

[bcr8f]

Personally feel that Vick has paid his debt to society and if the NFL wants to suspend him 4-8 games I think he would understand.Regardless I do not believe he should be suspended more than 4-8 games max this year and should be reinstated if he complies with Goodell's outlines for him off the field.

He hasn't paid anything for torturing the dogs. He was in prison for the other crimes. He deserves more time for that. Goodell should suspend him.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

The RIGHT? No he does not have the RIGHT to play in the NFL. You don't have the RIGHT to work anywhere. You have the privilege. If someone is willing to pay him for his services then yes he should be allowed to work for that corporation.

That being said, he brings a long a ton of baggage and in todays financial climate I am not sure too many owners would want to upset the sponsors/advertisers they do have.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Personally feel that Vick has paid his debt to society and if the NFL wants to suspend him 4-8 games I think he would understand.Regardless I do not believe he should be suspended more than 4-8 games max this year and should be reinstated if he complies with Goodell's outlines for him off the field.

Football is the only job hes ever had... hes paid his debt and hes broke; give him a chance.

 

[Phurfur]

Personally feel that Vick has paid his debt to society and if the NFL wants to suspend him 4-8 games I think he would understand.Regardless I do not believe he should be suspended more than 4-8 games max this year and should be reinstated if he complies with Goodell's outlines for him off the field.

Football is the only job hes ever had... hes paid his debt and hes broke; give him a chance.

He's working construction right now. At least he has a job!

 

[fatness]

What?

Allow people with criminal records who've served their time to work again?

Outrageous!

 

[KellysHeroes]

if teams want to give him a try out and sign him, there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Couch Potato]

I won't get into how I feel about it personally, but I'll predict he gets a suspension of 4 to 8 games and is signed by someone, and if I had to guess, Miami or Jacksonville.

 

[barista]

'Deserve' is subjective... but that's the point of polls I guess.

 

[LHUCKS]

Nice to see the FFA majority get this right...I feel sorry for those who voted no.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Let him play this year starting in game 1 if anyone is willing to sign him. He has paid his debt to society and it should be over. He has already sat out of football for long enough. The NFL suspension should be retro dated and served concurrently with the prison sentence.

dittoThe guy broke the law and did some pretty nasty things, but he has already paid a huge price it's time to move on. If a team wants him he should be allowed to play.

I look at playing in the NFL as a privilege, not a right. He has a right to return to society, and get a job, etc. but if I were running the NFL I'd not let guys like this back in. JMO...

 

[Godsbrother]

Let him play this year starting in game 1 if anyone is willing to sign him. He has paid his debt to society and it should be over. He has already sat out of football for long enough. The NFL suspension should be retro dated and served concurrently with the prison sentence.

If someone is willing to sign him then he should be permitted to compete. Personally I always viewed as a faster version of Kordell Stewart: A wonderful athlete but not a great quarterback.

 

[Mapmaker]

Mike and Mike on ESPN Radio posed this question this morning ... If you were found guilty as Vick was would you be allowed to continue your career now that your sentence has been served? ... Not if you were a government employee, not if you were an employee in any bondable employment, not if you were a police officer .... there are a very large number of employment positions that refuse to reinstate Felons .... as has been stated over and over Vick did his crime willingly and with no care for the laws of society, he lied about it and was non repentant until he was convicted ... I personally don't believe he should have the opportunity to earn Millions of Dollars for PLAYING anything ever again ... let him go forth and earn a living like the rest of us working stiffs!!

 

[Tau837]

Mike and Mike on ESPN Radio posed this question this morning ... If you were found guilty as Vick was would you be allowed to continue your career now that your sentence has been served? ... Not if you were a government employee, not if you were an employee in any bondable employment, not if you were a police officer .... there are a very large number of employment positions that refuse to reinstate Felons .... as has been stated over and over Vick did his crime willingly and with no care for the laws of society, he lied about it and was non repentant until he was convicted ... I personally don't believe he should have the opportunity to earn Millions of Dollars for PLAYING anything ever again ... let him go forth and earn a living like the rest of us working stiffs!!

I agree with this. And for all those who will inevitably bring up Leonard Little and others, let me just say that I don't think any convicted felons should be allowed to play in the NFL or any other pro sports league.

 

[Matt Waldman]

My take on Vick

He deserves to play in the NFL because our society's rules have allowed him the opportunity to do so. Personally, I think the punishment didn't fit the crime and if something could have differed then I would argue he needed to serve more time. Since that isn't the case, he should play.

 

[David Yudkin]

Let him go forth and earn a living like the rest of us working stiffs!!

Unlike the positions you referenced, I do not believe that there is anything that prohibits Vick in the NFL rules from coming back as a convicted felon. Entertainers, film makers, etc. can go and make more albums or movies and still have careers. That's just how it is. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I don't think the structure and framework is currently in place to prevent Vick from coming back (unless Goodell wants to set precident on his own).

 

[Stealthycat]

If you ban Vick from employment in the NFL, are you also going to ban him from working at Home Depot of Target?

I mean seriously, you cannot "ban" someone from employment after they've completed their convicted sentence and paid their debt to society can you?

 

[Mystery Achiever]

I absolutely abhor (look at me, I can use fancy words) what he did, but the fact remains that he committed the crime and paid his time. You can argue that he should have gotten more punishment if you wish, but we have to live with what our justice system decided. Let the man move ahead with his life, and if he proves he can still play football, then so be it.

My view as well.

 

[Adebisi]

I said no. The guy lied to the Feds and he lied to Goodell. He only came clean when his buddies turned on him. I think Vick is sorry he got caught and nothing more. I am getting pretty sick of watching this kind of low character scum in the NFL. Who needs him?

Very

 

[Adebisi]

If you ban Vick from employment in the NFL, are you also going to ban him from working at Home Depot of Target?I mean seriously, you cannot "ban" someone from employment after they've completed their convicted sentence and paid their debt to society can you?

Sure. There are plenty of employers who do background checks and will not hire convicted felons.

 

[Yenrub]

While I agree that playing in the NFL isn’t a right, I am not so sure that it is a privilege either.

I guess when I think of privilege I think of something being handed to someone who didn’t have to work for it

 

[Tau837]

While I agree that playing in the NFL isn’t a right, I am not so sure that it is a privilege either.I guess when I think of privilege I think of something being handed to someone who didn’t have to work for it

I think of a privilege as something that must be earned and can be lost. IMO Vick originally earned the privilege to play in the NFL due to his talent and hard work but lost the privilege with his criminal behavior.That said, I fully expect him to be reinstated, it's just a matter of when and whether or not he must first serve an NFL suspension.

 

[Phurfur]

If you ban Vick from employment in the NFL, are you also going to ban him from working at Home Depot of Target?

I mean seriously, you cannot "ban" someone from employment after they've completed their convicted sentence and paid their debt to society can you?

You can if they break the Company's Personal Conduct Policy that your Union agreed to.

 

[BuddyKnuckles]

Nice to see the FFA majority get this right...I feel sorry for those who voted no.

so, what day of the week do you prefer to torture your dogs? dont worry, you dont go to jail for that, or get suspended from your job either. Just dont gamble on it

 

[renesauz]

I still dont get why everyone is so focused on the dog-fights that they ignore the (even) darker side of this. Vick was at the head of an illegal interstate gambling operation. That's organized crime type stuff fellas, not a back alley craps game. Vick's name even came up during a murder investigation in La, and Vick most certainly was rubbing elbows with some of the most ruthless criminals in the country.

He paid his debt for what they could prove, but people don't get into that kind of thing without a whole lot of other stuff going on. For that reason, and since it WAS gambling, I voted MAYBE 2010. No reason for Goodell to rush this decision in either direction.

 

[renesauz]

Let him go forth and earn a living like the rest of us working stiffs!!

Unlike the positions you referenced, I do not believe that there is anything that prohibits Vick in the NFL rules from coming back as a convicted felon. Entertainers, film makers, etc. can go and make more albums or movies and still have careers. That's just how it is. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I don't think the structure and framework is currently in place to prevent Vick from coming back (unless Goodell wants to set precident on his own).

I think there is actually, since he was invlved in GAMBLING.

 

[BuddyKnuckles]

This is ridiculous. I cant believe how many people are blind fanboys and dont see how bad it would be to let vick back in the NFL. Let me break it down for you:

- Spending time in a jail cell DOES NOT EQUAL remorse. Remorse means he is truly sorry for what he did. Not for getting caught

- He never served time for tossing in family pets to his fighting dogs or for personally murdering his dogs . He served only for interstate gambling. This was because the prosecutor in VA, Poindexter, dragged his feet and botched the case. vick HAS ADMITTED TO BEING PART OF THE DOG FIGHTING AND TO KILLING DOGS. He just was not prosecuted for it.

- vicks dogs ripped apart family pets and killed them in a gruesome fashion. Picture your family pet being torn apart while still alive

- Those who compare vick to Leonard Little or someone who kills while DUI just dont get it. Yes, killing someone while DUI is horrible, but that is a mistake, an error in judgment. a horrible one, but still a one time event. What vick did is premeditated, it is a lifestyle. it is not something you wake up and accidentally do one day. It is a series of a thousand decisions every single day where you decide to murder family pets.

- Check out the poll on CNN.com right now, it is an exact split, 50/50 between letting vick in and keeping him out. 50% of homes in the US own dogs. That means anyone with a family pet understands how horrific vick is.

I'd love to see the NFL get arrogant and think they can do whatever they want. To think that they can let scum of the earth make millions and play a game for a living and that fans will still blindly follow. Go ahead get arrogant, see where that gets the league

 

[BuddyKnuckles]

I still dont get why everyone is so focused on the dog-fights that they ignore the (even) darker side of this. Vick was at the head of an illegal interstate gambling operation. That's organized crime type stuff fellas, not a back alley craps game. Vick's name even came up during a murder investigation in La, and Vick most certainly was rubbing elbows with some of the most ruthless criminals in the country.

He paid his debt for what they could prove, but people don't get into that kind of thing without a whole lot of other stuff going on. For that reason, and since it WAS gambling, I voted MAYBE 2010. No reason for Goodell to rush this decision in either direction.

not entirely true. vick admitted to all the aspects of dog fighting, but was convicted only on the interstate gambling aspects. So, he was not convicted for "what they could prove" b/c he admitted to other crimes and was never convicted of them

 

[BuddyKnuckles]

If you ban Vick from employment in the NFL, are you also going to ban him from working at Home Depot of Target?I mean seriously, you cannot "ban" someone from employment after they've completed their convicted sentence and paid their debt to society can you?

yes, you can. private businesses can make hiring and firing decisions based on any criteria they want, so long as its not based on age, sex, religion, race, etc

 

[David Yudkin]

Let him go forth and earn a living like the rest of us working stiffs!!

Unlike the positions you referenced, I do not believe that there is anything that prohibits Vick in the NFL rules from coming back as a convicted felon. Entertainers, film makers, etc. can go and make more albums or movies and still have careers. That's just how it is. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I don't think the structure and framework is currently in place to prevent Vick from coming back (unless Goodell wants to set precident on his own).

I think there is actually, since he was invlved in GAMBLING.

It's been so long that I can't remember the specifics, but Vick pled guilty to Conspiracy to Travel in Interstate Commerce in Aid of Unlawful Activities and to Sponsor a Dog in an Animal Fighting Venture. I'm not sure if that carries the same weight as a gambling charge or not.

 

[David Yudkin]

This is ridiculous. I cant believe how many people are blind fanboys and dont see how bad it would be to let vick back in the NFL. Let me break it down for you:

- Spending time in a jail cell DOES NOT EQUAL remorse. Remorse means he is truly sorry for what he did. Not for getting caught

- He never served time for tossing in family pets to his fighting dogs or for personally murdering his dogs . He served only for interstate gambling. This was because the prosecutor in VA, Poindexter, dragged his feet and botched the case. vick HAS ADMITTED TO BEING PART OF THE DOG FIGHTING AND TO KILLING DOGS. He just was not prosecuted for it.

- vicks dogs ripped apart family pets and killed them in a gruesome fashion. Picture your family pet being torn apart while still alive

- Those who compare vick to Leonard Little or someone who kills while DUI just dont get it. Yes, killing someone while DUI is horrible, but that is a mistake, an error in judgment. a horrible one, but still a one time event. What vick did is premeditated, it is a lifestyle. it is not something you wake up and accidentally do one day. It is a series of a thousand decisions every single day where you decide to murder family pets.

- Check out the poll on CNN.com right now, it is an exact split, 50/50 between letting vick in and keeping him out. 50% of homes in the US own dogs. That means anyone with a family pet understands how horrific vick is.

I'd love to see the NFL get arrogant and think they can do whatever they want. To think that they can let scum of the earth make millions and play a game for a living and that fans will still blindly follow. Go ahead get arrogant, see where that gets the league

I don't really want to turn this thread into a can of worms and rehash things that people debated years ago, but aren't animals animals?My contention at the time was how was this really all that different than hunting or fishing? Bottom line, people derived pleasure from killing animals. Yes, I am aware that the way the animals were killed in each example is different and the dogfighting was more inhumane, but because people thought of dogs as Spike the family pet that was closer to home than a deer, moose, pheasant, fish, etc.

I'm guessing a good percentage of the NFL goes hunting, and I personally have a hard time with people that can kill other animals but then be outraged and incensed by the dog fighting. Animals going up against other animals is an accepted practice in other countries (as is bull fighting). Yet that seems to be ok in certain parts of the world.

I'm certainly not condoning what Vick did, and I'm not poo-pooing it or sweeping it under the rug either. However, I do think that the animal element to this was heavily influenced by the dogs being domesticated animals.

Taking the PETA side of things, there are countless attrocities that occur to animals (chickens, cows, minks for furs, lab testing animals, etc.), so IMO people need to be animal activists for all animals and not pick and choose the ones that they like because they live with them.

 

[Adebisi]

This is ridiculous. I cant believe how many people are blind fanboys and dont see how bad it would be to let vick back in the NFL. Let me break it down for you:

- Spending time in a jail cell DOES NOT EQUAL remorse. Remorse means he is truly sorry for what he did. Not for getting caught

- He never served time for tossing in family pets to his fighting dogs or for personally murdering his dogs . He served only for interstate gambling. This was because the prosecutor in VA, Poindexter, dragged his feet and botched the case. vick HAS ADMITTED TO BEING PART OF THE DOG FIGHTING AND TO KILLING DOGS. He just was not prosecuted for it.

- vicks dogs ripped apart family pets and killed them in a gruesome fashion. Picture your family pet being torn apart while still alive

- Those who compare vick to Leonard Little or someone who kills while DUI just dont get it. Yes, killing someone while DUI is horrible, but that is a mistake, an error in judgment. a horrible one, but still a one time event. What vick did is premeditated, it is a lifestyle. it is not something you wake up and accidentally do one day. It is a series of a thousand decisions every single day where you decide to murder family pets.

- Check out the poll on CNN.com right now, it is an exact split, 50/50 between letting vick in and keeping him out. 50% of homes in the US own dogs. That means anyone with a family pet understands how horrific vick is.

I'd love to see the NFL get arrogant and think they can do whatever they want. To think that they can let scum of the earth make millions and play a game for a living and that fans will still blindly follow. Go ahead get arrogant, see where that gets the league

I don't really want to turn this thread into a can of worms and rehash things that people debated years ago, but aren't animals animals?My contention at the time was how was this really all that different than hunting or fishing? Bottom line, people derived pleasure from killing animals. Yes, I am aware that the way the animals were killed in each example is different and the dogfighting was more inhumane, but because people thought of dogs as Spike the family pet that was closer to home than a deer, moose, pheasant, fish, etc.

I'm guessing a good percentage of the NFL goes hunting, and I personally have a hard time with people that can kill other animals but then be outraged and incensed by the dog fighting. Animals going up against other animals is an accepted practice in other countries (as is bull fighting). Yet that seems to be ok in certain parts of the world.

I'm certainly not condoning what Vick did, and I'm not poo-pooing it or sweeping it under the rug either. However, I do think that the animal element to this was heavily influenced by the dogs being domesticated animals.

Taking the PETA side of things, there are countless attrocities that occur to animals (chickens, cows, minks for furs, lab testing animals, etc.), so IMO people need to be animal activists for all animals and not pick and choose the ones that they like because they live with them.

People hunt and fish for food. Such is the circle of life. Of course, there are exceptions, and I am not condoning the actions of people who hunt or fish only for the excitement of killing animals; I believe that if you are going to hunt or fish, then you ought to eat what you kill. It's not unlike buying a steak from the butcher, except you're taking out the middle man.What Vick did was for savage amusement (and perhaps financial profit); nothing more.

You don't see the difference between the two?