Dolphin Players bullied Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito SUSPENDED (1 Viewer)

[ChuckLiddell]

Also, I don't have to paint you as an insensitive creep. You're doing a fine job of that all on your own.

Why you gotta go there? Try making a real point instead of making this about me. The post above this was an attempt at a real point...that fell flat on it's face. You stop making sense once your argument gets exposed as silly.

I have said that if he is either weak or has mental problems time and again since the beginning. If he is mentally ill, he needs to seek treatment...not take down the NFL. Stop blaming others, and solve your problem.

If he came in and shot up the cafeteria, I sure would have said he should have just walked away. What the heck are you asking? He didn't just walk away. He hired a lawyer and made this into a big deal. You seem to be saying that him just walking away was his best recourse...which is true, but not what happened. There are several options in between walking away quietly and shooting up the cafeteria.

He had plenty of options, and they have been discussed today in this thread. No need to rehash them just to counter your weak and unfathomable position on this again.

Im done for today. My tolerance level for stupidity has reached its apex.

 

[KCitons]

Also, I don't have to paint you as an insensitive creep. You're doing a fine job of that all on your own.

Why you gotta go there? Try making a real point instead of making this about me. The post above this was an attempt at a real point...that fell flat on it's face. You stop making sense once your argument gets exposed as silly.

I have said that if he is either weak or has mental problems time and again since the beginning. If he is mentally ill, he needs to seek treatment...not take down the NFL. Stop blaming others, and solve your problem.

If he came in and shot up the cafeteria, I sure would have said he should have just walked away. What the heck are you asking? He didn't just walk away. He hired a lawyer and made this into a big deal. You seem to be saying that him just walking away was his best recourse...which is true, but not what happened. There are several options in between walking away quietly and shooting up the cafeteria.

He had plenty of options, and they have been discussed today in this thread. No need to rehash them just to counter your weak and unfathomable position on this again.

Im done for today. My tolerance level for stupidity has reached its apex.

Just stating I wasn't the one making you look insensitive. After all, you did say that being mentally ill is not an excuse. I would venture to guess there is an entire medical profession that would argue that point for me.

Did you ever think that he hired a lawyer as a buffer? Because he walked away from the NFL while under contract. He was going to need to explain his reasoning sooner or later. The Dolphins and the NFL were going to want answers.

Why did Richie hire a PR guy? If he did nothing wrong, teams should be waiting on his doorstep on March 4th,.

I truly hope you are done. Did you learn anything new from all this?

 

[fatness]

Armando Salguero ‏@ArmandoSalguero 42mNFLPA exec director DeMaurice Smith said union conducted investigation into Dolphins bully charges. Everyone participated except Jon Martin.

Where is the report on what the NFLPA found?

 

[fantasycurse42]

Martin is a ####### disgrace and should never play in the NFL.

Incognito is an #######, but I assume a decent percentage of guys in the NFL are #######s too.

/thread

 

[JAMES!]

Most overblown story in the history of the world.

 

[Todem]

Most overblown story in the history of the world.

Ya think?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Also, I don't have to paint you as an insensitive creep. You're doing a fine job of that all on your own.

Why you gotta go there? Try making a real point instead of making this about me. The post above this was an attempt at a real point...that fell flat on it's face. You stop making sense once your argument gets exposed as silly.

I have said that if he is either weak or has mental problems time and again since the beginning. If he is mentally ill, he needs to seek treatment...not take down the NFL. Stop blaming others, and solve your problem.

If he came in and shot up the cafeteria, I sure would have said he should have just walked away. What the heck are you asking? He didn't just walk away. He hired a lawyer and made this into a big deal. You seem to be saying that him just walking away was his best recourse...which is true, but not what happened. There are several options in between walking away quietly and shooting up the cafeteria.

He had plenty of options, and they have been discussed today in this thread. No need to rehash them just to counter your weak and unfathomable position on this again.

Im done for today. My tolerance level for stupidity has reached its apex.

Just stating I wasn't the one making you look insensitive. After all, you did say that being mentally ill is not an excuse. I would venture to guess there is an entire medical profession that would argue that point for me.

Did you ever think that he hired a lawyer as a buffer? Because he walked away from the NFL while under contract. He was going to need to explain his reasoning sooner or later. The Dolphins and the NFL were going to want answers.

Why did Richie hire a PR guy? If he did nothing wrong, teams should be waiting on his doorstep on March 4th,.

I truly hope you are done. Did you learn anything new from all this?

I sure did. I learned that when I communicate with people of questionable intellect, I need to explain myself better.

Mental illness would be an explanation for someone shooting up a school. It would not be an excuse. It could explain your boy's hissy fit, but that would not excuse his behavior either that day, or every day that has followed.

Lawyer as a buffer is now your theory? Pay someone tens of thousands of dollars to go on the offensive on your behalf and try to bring down a teammate, team, and league as a buffer for his mental problems? Thats the new theory?

Why did Richie need a PR firm? Seriously? Is that a real question, or are you just grasping for any possible way that you can still blame all of your boy's issues on someone else?

 

[KCitons]

Also, I don't have to paint you as an insensitive creep. You're doing a fine job of that all on your own.

Why you gotta go there? Try making a real point instead of making this about me. The post above this was an attempt at a real point...that fell flat on it's face. You stop making sense once your argument gets exposed as silly.

I have said that if he is either weak or has mental problems time and again since the beginning. If he is mentally ill, he needs to seek treatment...not take down the NFL. Stop blaming others, and solve your problem.

If he came in and shot up the cafeteria, I sure would have said he should have just walked away. What the heck are you asking? He didn't just walk away. He hired a lawyer and made this into a big deal. You seem to be saying that him just walking away was his best recourse...which is true, but not what happened. There are several options in between walking away quietly and shooting up the cafeteria.

He had plenty of options, and they have been discussed today in this thread. No need to rehash them just to counter your weak and unfathomable position on this again.

Im done for today. My tolerance level for stupidity has reached its apex.

Just stating I wasn't the one making you look insensitive. After all, you did say that being mentally ill is not an excuse. I would venture to guess there is an entire medical profession that would argue that point for me.

Did you ever think that he hired a lawyer as a buffer? Because he walked away from the NFL while under contract. He was going to need to explain his reasoning sooner or later. The Dolphins and the NFL were going to want answers.

Why did Richie hire a PR guy? If he did nothing wrong, teams should be waiting on his doorstep on March 4th,.

I truly hope you are done. Did you learn anything new from all this?

I sure did. I learned that when I communicate with people of questionable intellect, I need to explain myself better.

Mental illness would be an explanation for someone shooting up a school. It would not be an excuse. It could explain your boy's hissy fit, but that would not excuse his behavior either that day, or every day that has followed.

Lawyer as a buffer is now your theory? Pay someone tens of thousands of dollars to go on the offensive on your behalf and try to bring down a teammate, team, and league as a buffer for his mental problems? Thats the new theory?

Why did Richie need a PR firm? Seriously? Is that a real question, or are you just grasping for any possible way that you can still blame all of your boy's issues on someone else?

Yeah, I'm the dumb one here.

You summed it up. Martin may have a mental issue, that explains why he walked out on his team. You still believe that a person with a mental condition has full control over their actions. That is the excuse part I am talking about. It's no different than other diseases. And yes, it is insensitive to think this way.

You seem to be able to agree that Martin's actions could be due to a mental problem, but you refuse to accept that he had/has no choice on how he acts do to said problem. This makes no sense on your part and makes it look as if you are the one grasping as straws. Do you under stand what mental illness is? Do you understand the definition of disease? I suggest you spend a few minutes and read this thread.

Why is your theory better than my theory? Neither is born out of absolute facts. But, it's not unreasonable to think Martin hired a lawyer to be a buffer. After all, Martin did his first interview, months after he walked away. He wanted to give people an explanation, the lawyer was the logical choice, since Martin didn't want to hold a press conference himself.

Yes, the PR guy is a serious question. If the Wells report comes out and Incognito did nothing wrong (as you suggest) then why a high priced PR guy? If Richie is innocent and a Pro Bowl player, he shouldn't need a PR guy. Or perhaps Richie has some fault in this thing and he is trying to get ahead of it. Don't you find the timing rather odd as well? Approx a week before the Wells report comes out, he hires a PR guy. Why didn't he hire one a few months ago? Probably because he knows the #### is about to hit the fan.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Also, I don't have to paint you as an insensitive creep. You're doing a fine job of that all on your own.

Why you gotta go there? Try making a real point instead of making this about me. The post above this was an attempt at a real point...that fell flat on it's face. You stop making sense once your argument gets exposed as silly.

I have said that if he is either weak or has mental problems time and again since the beginning. If he is mentally ill, he needs to seek treatment...not take down the NFL. Stop blaming others, and solve your problem.

If he came in and shot up the cafeteria, I sure would have said he should have just walked away. What the heck are you asking? He didn't just walk away. He hired a lawyer and made this into a big deal. You seem to be saying that him just walking away was his best recourse...which is true, but not what happened. There are several options in between walking away quietly and shooting up the cafeteria.

He had plenty of options, and they have been discussed today in this thread. No need to rehash them just to counter your weak and unfathomable position on this again.

Im done for today. My tolerance level for stupidity has reached its apex.

Just stating I wasn't the one making you look insensitive. After all, you did say that being mentally ill is not an excuse. I would venture to guess there is an entire medical profession that would argue that point for me.

Did you ever think that he hired a lawyer as a buffer? Because he walked away from the NFL while under contract. He was going to need to explain his reasoning sooner or later. The Dolphins and the NFL were going to want answers.

Why did Richie hire a PR guy? If he did nothing wrong, teams should be waiting on his doorstep on March 4th,.

I truly hope you are done. Did you learn anything new from all this?

I sure did. I learned that when I communicate with people of questionable intellect, I need to explain myself better.

Mental illness would be an explanation for someone shooting up a school. It would not be an excuse. It could explain your boy's hissy fit, but that would not excuse his behavior either that day, or every day that has followed.

Lawyer as a buffer is now your theory? Pay someone tens of thousands of dollars to go on the offensive on your behalf and try to bring down a teammate, team, and league as a buffer for his mental problems? Thats the new theory?

Why did Richie need a PR firm? Seriously? Is that a real question, or are you just grasping for any possible way that you can still blame all of your boy's issues on someone else?

Yeah, I'm the dumb one here.

You summed it up. Martin may have a mental issue, that explains why he walked out on his team. You still believe that a person with a mental condition has full control over their actions. That is the excuse part I am talking about. It's no different than other diseases. And yes, it is insensitive to think this way.

You seem to be able to agree that Martin's actions could be due to a mental problem, but you refuse to accept that he had/has no choice on how he acts do to said problem. This makes no sense on your part and makes it look as if you are the one grasping as straws. Do you under stand what mental illness is? Do you understand the definition of disease? I suggest you spend a few minutes and read this thread.

Why is your theory better than my theory? Neither is born out of absolute facts. But, it's not unreasonable to think Martin hired a lawyer to be a buffer. After all, Martin did his first interview, months after he walked away. He wanted to give people an explanation, the lawyer was the logical choice, since Martin didn't want to hold a press conference himself.

Yes, the PR guy is a serious question. If the Wells report comes out and Incognito did nothing wrong (as you suggest) then why a high priced PR guy? If Richie is innocent and a Pro Bowl player, he shouldn't need a PR guy. Or perhaps Richie has some fault in this thing and he is trying to get ahead of it. Don't you find the timing rather odd as well? Approx a week before the Wells report comes out, he hires a PR guy. Why didn't he hire one a few months ago? Probably because he knows the #### is about to hit the fan.

Again, I have to spell things out for you. I guess maybe I didnt learn my lesson well enough. This is going to be a challenge trying to help you understand simple concepts.

OK...assume he has a mental condition...maybe you can excuse the lunchroom hissy fit, and walking out on his team due to that disease. However, how do you excuse him then trying to blame everything on his teammate (and best friend), team, and the league? If he is sick, he should get treatment, and those advising him should make that happen. If he does not do that, then he is accountable for his actions. His actions have had a profound affect on a lot of people.

Your buffer theory seems ridiculous. If that is all the lawyer was hired for, then why the offensive onslaught against his best friend, team, and league? That is not buffering. It is blaming. Pretty simple concept.

Richie hired a PR firm because his character has been (in this case) falsely destroyed. Martin goes on TV trying to assassinate it even further, and Richie still wants his career. He made the right move in trying to defend his character. Not everyone who hires PR firms is guilty just because you say so.

You are the victim lover...it seems disingenuous that you would not be racing to his side to protect him as the innocent victim in this case. Like it or not, the bad guy is not the bad guy in this case. The bad guy is your boy. You may need to find a new mancrush.

 

[KCitons]

Also, I don't have to paint you as an insensitive creep. You're doing a fine job of that all on your own.

Why you gotta go there? Try making a real point instead of making this about me. The post above this was an attempt at a real point...that fell flat on it's face. You stop making sense once your argument gets exposed as silly.

I have said that if he is either weak or has mental problems time and again since the beginning. If he is mentally ill, he needs to seek treatment...not take down the NFL. Stop blaming others, and solve your problem.

If he came in and shot up the cafeteria, I sure would have said he should have just walked away. What the heck are you asking? He didn't just walk away. He hired a lawyer and made this into a big deal. You seem to be saying that him just walking away was his best recourse...which is true, but not what happened. There are several options in between walking away quietly and shooting up the cafeteria.

He had plenty of options, and they have been discussed today in this thread. No need to rehash them just to counter your weak and unfathomable position on this again.

Im done for today. My tolerance level for stupidity has reached its apex.

Just stating I wasn't the one making you look insensitive. After all, you did say that being mentally ill is not an excuse. I would venture to guess there is an entire medical profession that would argue that point for me.

Did you ever think that he hired a lawyer as a buffer? Because he walked away from the NFL while under contract. He was going to need to explain his reasoning sooner or later. The Dolphins and the NFL were going to want answers.

Why did Richie hire a PR guy? If he did nothing wrong, teams should be waiting on his doorstep on March 4th,.

I truly hope you are done. Did you learn anything new from all this?

I sure did. I learned that when I communicate with people of questionable intellect, I need to explain myself better.

Mental illness would be an explanation for someone shooting up a school. It would not be an excuse. It could explain your boy's hissy fit, but that would not excuse his behavior either that day, or every day that has followed.

Lawyer as a buffer is now your theory? Pay someone tens of thousands of dollars to go on the offensive on your behalf and try to bring down a teammate, team, and league as a buffer for his mental problems? Thats the new theory?

Why did Richie need a PR firm? Seriously? Is that a real question, or are you just grasping for any possible way that you can still blame all of your boy's issues on someone else?

Yeah, I'm the dumb one here.

You summed it up. Martin may have a mental issue, that explains why he walked out on his team. You still believe that a person with a mental condition has full control over their actions. That is the excuse part I am talking about. It's no different than other diseases. And yes, it is insensitive to think this way.

You seem to be able to agree that Martin's actions could be due to a mental problem, but you refuse to accept that he had/has no choice on how he acts do to said problem. This makes no sense on your part and makes it look as if you are the one grasping as straws. Do you under stand what mental illness is? Do you understand the definition of disease? I suggest you spend a few minutes and read this thread.

Why is your theory better than my theory? Neither is born out of absolute facts. But, it's not unreasonable to think Martin hired a lawyer to be a buffer. After all, Martin did his first interview, months after he walked away. He wanted to give people an explanation, the lawyer was the logical choice, since Martin didn't want to hold a press conference himself.

Yes, the PR guy is a serious question. If the Wells report comes out and Incognito did nothing wrong (as you suggest) then why a high priced PR guy? If Richie is innocent and a Pro Bowl player, he shouldn't need a PR guy. Or perhaps Richie has some fault in this thing and he is trying to get ahead of it. Don't you find the timing rather odd as well? Approx a week before the Wells report comes out, he hires a PR guy. Why didn't he hire one a few months ago? Probably because he knows the #### is about to hit the fan.

Again, I have to spell things out for you. I guess maybe I didnt learn my lesson well enough. This is going to be a challenge trying to help you understand simple concepts.

OK...assume he has a mental condition...maybe you can excuse the lunchroom hissy fit, and walking out on his team due to that disease. However, how do you excuse him then trying to blame everything on his teammate (and best friend), team, and the league? If he is sick, he should get treatment, and those advising him should make that happen. If he does not do that, then he is accountable for his actions. His actions have had a profound affect on a lot of people.

Your buffer theory seems ridiculous. If that is all the lawyer was hired for, then why the offensive onslaught against his best friend, team, and league? That is not buffering. It is blaming. Pretty simple concept.

Richie hired a PR firm because his character has been (in this case) falsely destroyed. Martin goes on TV trying to assassinate it even further, and Richie still wants his career. He made the right move in trying to defend his character. Not everyone who hires PR firms is guilty just because you say so.

You are the victim lover...it seems disingenuous that you would not be racing to his side to protect him as the innocent victim in this case. Like it or not, the bad guy is not the bad guy in this case. The bad guy is your boy. You may need to find a new mancrush.

Did you read the suicide thread I linked? You seem to be under the impression that a mentally ill person is making rational decisions. Why don't you venture over to that thread and post some of your comments there? Tell some of your fellow FBG's that they should have got help before they attempted to take their own lives. As if they had a choice. You know very little about the issue of mental illness and your comments do make you look insensitive.

Martin's lawyer offered up an explanation why his client left the team. He gave facts to back this up. Again, you seem to think I am condoning everything that Martin did. Could it have been handled differently? Maybe. We don't know all the facts, or Martins state of mind. As I mentioned already, he could have acted out in a violent manner, people could have been hurt or killed. At that point, I would gladly take the way he is handling it now.

You unfortunately can't fathom the thought that things could have been worse. You are focused solely on the negative effects of Martin on your favorite team. You can try to defend Incognito as a victim in this, but I already explained that Karma is evening things out with him. He is far from a victim.

You can call me a victim lover if that makes you feel better. Calling Martin my boy, has a slight tone of racism to it that other may find offensive. (just a nickels worth of free advise) Also, I've never claimed Martin as an innocent victim in any of this. I claimed he was/is a victim because we owe any human being the right to be heard. Where it goes from there is determined by facts.

Can you say for a fact that Richie character has been destroyed by Martin? He has a long history of problems. Martin may have been the straw that broke the camels back, but I hardly see Martin as the only negative mark on Richies record.

 

[Slapdash]

Yeah, I'm the dumb one here.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

sounds like these guy are jsut like me and my buddies during FFL season (minus the racist stuff) talking smack back n forth via texts

JMartin just happened to snap mentally couldnt take it any more, and now you have a giant mess

 

[KCitons]

Yeah, I'm the dumb one here.

Thanks Bully.

 

[KCitons]

sounds like these guy are jsut like me and my buddies during FFL season (minus the racist stuff) talking smack back n forth via texts

JMartin just happened to snap mentally couldnt take it any more, and now you have a giant mess

I agree. It's a giant mess for the Dolphins, the NFL, Martin and Incognito.

The question that still remains, why did Martin snap? Is it his own mental makeup? Was it Incognito? Was it the Dolphins locker room? Some feel he's faking it and it was because he lost his starting job.

People snap every day. Some work out, some take a long walk, others punch people, and the worst of them go on a shooting rampage.

 

[GroveDiesel]

What may end up being a bigger problem for everyone involved is all the talk about doing drugs. Sounds like Pouncey was quite involved on that scene.

 

[Doug B]

What may end up being a bigger problem for everyone involved is all the talk about doing drugs. Sounds like Pouncey was quite involved on that scene.

Don't think much is going to happen with the Martin stuff, but I'm surprised there hasn't been more collateral damage. Thought the "using rookies as ATMs" thing would have real legs

 

[ChuckLiddell]

What may end up being a bigger problem for everyone involved is all the talk about doing drugs. Sounds like Pouncey was quite involved on that scene.

Don't think much is going to happen with the Martin stuff, but I'm surprised there hasn't been more collateral damage. Thought the "using rookies as ATMs" thing would have real legs

I think it still does. I bet Goodell uses the Dolphins incident as an impetus to develop policies prohibiting things like financial hazing.

 

[Kalamazoo]

The interview and other information is still pretty consistent with the "perfect storm" (fueled by Martin's need to fit in, which he pretty stated was the case in the interview going up against the likes of Richie) story I outlined above. This leads me to a couple of questions:

1. I've asked this before, but when and how did the "Martin left the team to check in at a mental hospital" story come out? I still think this is an important angle, because I can't imagine Martin's side revealing this information, whether it was true or not. If it came from the Dolphins, Martin might have felt the need to defend himself, particularly if it weren't true, and thus set off this whole, possibly unfortunate, chain of events. In other words, if the Dolphins had kept their mouths shut (assuming they didn't), it seems possible that none of this would have gotten so blown up.

2. I don't think Martin handle this well at all. I truly don't. But in trying to put myself in his shoes, I can kind of see how it came to this point. My thoughts:

* The first step any grown-up "victim" should take in most non-violent situations that involves harassment (as this one likely did to one degree or another) or any similar dispute should be to speak to the other party and tell him or her that it's not cool.

* I don't know that we know if he ever confronted Richie about it, but if he did and Richie blew him off, what would his next steps have been? My understanding is that even the biggest anti-Martin (I don't think it would be fair to call many, if any, of them "pro-Richie") folks here agree that he should not have been required to resort to violence.

* If not violence, then here's a quite serious question for the "code of the locker room and what happens there, stays there" folks: Would it really have been OK for him to have spoken to Philbin, say? Or would that have been going off crying and tattling to the principal? In the interview Martin seemed to imply that it would have been. Based on some of the points of view expressed here, I can see that he might have considered that showing weakness. I know nothing about locker rooms and don't like that kind of rank-closing culture, but I would have felt uncomfortable "tattling" too.

There was a toxic situation that arose in my workplace a few years ago, where some bad blood somehow developed between Tom and co. and Jerry. It was initiated and perpetrated by Tom and co. and made Jerry's life pretty uncomfortable. Jerry was very confused, didn't share the animosity, and took the high road, but Tom would complain to the bosses (without talking to Jerry about his grievances first), who took his word on things and sided with him over Jerry. Jerry also tried to talk to Tom, who wouldn't engage. I would ask Jerry why didn't fight fire with fire and give the bosses his side of the story. He said that that was the kind of thing his 5 year old daughter's kindergarten classmates would have done. I did have to agree with him. I was there when it finally got to the point where Jerry mentioned to the boss something one of Tom's guys did, and the boss was pretty appalled. I think the boss finally started to realize that maybe there was more to the story. Heck, even in that context, I bit my tongue about some of the things I had seen Tom do (unrelated to Jerry) that were pretty uncool, because I didn't want to throw him under the bus. This whole situation was very demoralizing for not just Jerry, but me as well as some of our other coworkers. (Luckily there was a happy ending; a certain manager left, and now everybody is friends again.) I imagine most of us have seen this kind of thing.

I could see myself in Jerry's shoes also trying to take the high road, and then, when I finally had enough, getting the hell out of there. Not the best way to handle it, but it would have felt better than stooping to Tom's level and tattling. I mean, what would I say, "Mr Boss, Tommy is being mean to me..."? I think grown-ups should be able to work this kind of thing out on their own. But what happens when they can't?

Maybe Martin really did have enough, felt trapped, didn't see a easy way to fix things, was stressed by his poor performance, and just snapped, and walked right out of a terrible situation. Whether he was mentally ill to some extent or not, his judgement was certainly badly clouded. I think there is a scenario in which I might have done the same thing. I wouldn't have been in the least bit proud of it, but I can totally see it happening. If so, it's too bad it blew up into a media circus for whatever reason. Or maybe it's not, if it leads to some other reforms (e.g. rookie financial hazing) or Martin ending up in a better place and thriving, or something else. I guess all of that remains to be seen.

 

[KCitons]

couple of interesting points from this CBS Miami article.

After Martin left the team near the end of October, Incognito repeatedly texted martin asking him to call him and if he was okay. Martin finally responded to Incognito on November 1, “Wassup man? The world’s gone crazy lol I’m good tho congrats on the win.”

Incognito responded to Martin, “Thanks dude. It’s unbelievable all the attention this is getting. All that’s important is that you feel better and know we miss u dude.” Martin replied, “Yeah I’m good man. It’s insane bro but just know I don’t blame you guys at all its just the culture around football and the locker room got to me a little. Btw…never check yourself into a mental hospital.”



Incognito replied, “I hear ya It’s a lot to take in I’ve checked myself in before I had to threaten to beat everyone up for them to let me out. Not fun.” Martin wrote back, “Yeah bro it was the worst. I almost snapped and started breaking s***.”

Again, who released the info that Martin checked into a mental hospital? Had to be Incognito or the Dolphins.

The conversation on November 1 continued with Incognito writing back, “Hahahahah That’s exactly what I was feeling. The brain is a tricky thing My brain has been to far out places and back.” Martin replied, “yeah man. How you feeling? Heard you got hurt.”

A little later in the day, Incognito texted Martin a picture of an article from ESPN.com titled, “Sources: NFLPA Eyes Martin Case.” Incognito followed that up with, “What’s up with this?”

Martin replied, “I got nothing to do with it man I haven’t said anything to anyone.”

Incognito replied, “I heard it’s all coming Ur agent?” Martin didn’t reply back to Incognito.

On November 2, Incognito wrote to Martin saying, “I need you buddy I’m getting killed in the media.” The next day Incognito again pleaded with Martin, “Bro can we talk? The dolphins are talking about releasing me”

Martin didn’t respond in the transcripts given to CBS4 by Incognito’s attorney.

This I find hard to believe. Regardless of legal council, a lawyer isn't going to release the things they did without Martin knowing. Even if he was in a mental hospital, his lawyer would have to consult before making those statements.

“It was comments, specific comments of a racial nature, aggressive, sexual comments related to my sister and my mother,” Martin told Dungy sparked his problems. “I spoke with my teammates, former teammates in other locker rooms, across the NFL and asked if this stuff goes on, is this normal rookie hazing and the consensus was this is not normal.”

So Martin did talk to other people about what was going on. Just not people within the Dolphins organization.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

What may end up being a bigger problem for everyone involved is all the talk about doing drugs. Sounds like Pouncey was quite involved on that scene.

Don't think much is going to happen with the Martin stuff, but I'm surprised there hasn't been more collateral damage. Thought the "using rookies as ATMs" thing would have real legs

I think it still does. I bet Goodell uses the Dolphins incident as an impetus to develop policies prohibiting things like financial hazing.

I bet you are pissed about that.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

couple of interesting points from this CBS Miami article.

After Martin left the team near the end of October, Incognito repeatedly texted martin asking him to call him and if he was okay. Martin finally responded to Incognito on November 1, “Wassup man? The world’s gone crazy lol I’m good tho congrats on the win.”

Incognito responded to Martin, “Thanks dude. It’s unbelievable all the attention this is getting. All that’s important is that you feel better and know we miss u dude.” Martin replied, “Yeah I’m good man. It’s insane bro but just know I don’t blame you guys at all its just the culture around football and the locker room got to me a little. Btw…never check yourself into a mental hospital.”



Incognito replied, “I hear ya It’s a lot to take in I’ve checked myself in before I had to threaten to beat everyone up for them to let me out. Not fun.” Martin wrote back, “Yeah bro it was the worst. I almost snapped and started breaking s***.”

Again, who released the info that Martin checked into a mental hospital? Had to be Incognito or the Dolphins.

The conversation on November 1 continued with Incognito writing back, “Hahahahah That’s exactly what I was feeling. The brain is a tricky thing My brain has been to far out places and back.” Martin replied, “yeah man. How you feeling? Heard you got hurt.”

A little later in the day, Incognito texted Martin a picture of an article from ESPN.com titled, “Sources: NFLPA Eyes Martin Case.” Incognito followed that up with, “What’s up with this?”

Martin replied, “I got nothing to do with it man I haven’t said anything to anyone.”

Incognito replied, “I heard it’s all coming Ur agent?” Martin didn’t reply back to Incognito.

On November 2, Incognito wrote to Martin saying, “I need you buddy I’m getting killed in the media.” The next day Incognito again pleaded with Martin, “Bro can we talk? The dolphins are talking about releasing me”

Martin didn’t respond in the transcripts given to CBS4 by Incognito’s attorney.

This I find hard to believe. Regardless of legal council, a lawyer isn't going to release the things they did without Martin knowing. Even if he was in a mental hospital, his lawyer would have to consult before making those statements.

“It was comments, specific comments of a racial nature, aggressive, sexual comments related to my sister and my mother,” Martin told Dungy sparked his problems. “I spoke with my teammates, former teammates in other locker rooms, across the NFL and asked if this stuff goes on, is this normal rookie hazing and the consensus was this is not normal.”

So Martin did talk to other people about what was going on. Just not people within the Dolphins organization.

So Richie has been checked into a mental hospital in his past? I guess you need to excuse him from everything he has ever done. He may have mental issues. He is a victim. We should all feel fortunate that he only sexually harasses people instead of shooting up schools.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

couple of interesting points from this CBS Miami article.

After Martin left the team near the end of October, Incognito repeatedly texted martin asking him to call him and if he was okay. Martin finally responded to Incognito on November 1, “Wassup man? The world’s gone crazy lol I’m good tho congrats on the win.”

Incognito responded to Martin, “Thanks dude. It’s unbelievable all the attention this is getting. All that’s important is that you feel better and know we miss u dude.” Martin replied, “Yeah I’m good man. It’s insane bro but just know I don’t blame you guys at all its just the culture around football and the locker room got to me a little. Btw…never check yourself into a mental hospital.”



Incognito replied, “I hear ya It’s a lot to take in I’ve checked myself in before I had to threaten to beat everyone up for them to let me out. Not fun.” Martin wrote back, “Yeah bro it was the worst. I almost snapped and started breaking s***.”

Again, who released the info that Martin checked into a mental hospital? Had to be Incognito or the Dolphins.

The conversation on November 1 continued with Incognito writing back, “Hahahahah That’s exactly what I was feeling. The brain is a tricky thing My brain has been to far out places and back.” Martin replied, “yeah man. How you feeling? Heard you got hurt.”

A little later in the day, Incognito texted Martin a picture of an article from ESPN.com titled, “Sources: NFLPA Eyes Martin Case.” Incognito followed that up with, “What’s up with this?”

Martin replied, “I got nothing to do with it man I haven’t said anything to anyone.”

Incognito replied, “I heard it’s all coming Ur agent?” Martin didn’t reply back to Incognito.

On November 2, Incognito wrote to Martin saying, “I need you buddy I’m getting killed in the media.” The next day Incognito again pleaded with Martin, “Bro can we talk? The dolphins are talking about releasing me”

Martin didn’t respond in the transcripts given to CBS4 by Incognito’s attorney.

This I find hard to believe. Regardless of legal council, a lawyer isn't going to release the things they did without Martin knowing. Even if he was in a mental hospital, his lawyer would have to consult before making those statements.

“It was comments, specific comments of a racial nature, aggressive, sexual comments related to my sister and my mother,” Martin told Dungy sparked his problems. “I spoke with my teammates, former teammates in other locker rooms, across the NFL and asked if this stuff goes on, is this normal rookie hazing and the consensus was this is not normal.”

So Martin did talk to other people about what was going on. Just not people within the Dolphins organization.

So Richie has been checked into a mental hospital in his past? I guess you need to excuse him from everything he has ever done. He may have mental issues. He is a victim. We should all feel fortunate that he only sexually harasses people instead of shooting up schools.

Incognito went to a mental hospital because he is violently insane. He should probably should have stayed there.

 

[KCitons]

Your intelligence is showing.

It's obvious this thread has become more about attacking me, than it is about understanding what is going on. Did you stop and think that Richie's mental issues could come into play if this thing ever goes to court? I would be curious as to the timing and reasoning as to why Incognito sought help from a mental hospital. Was it court ordered? Was it after a physical altercation? Was it league ordered?

If Richie has a diagnosed mental problem that the league and the Dolphins knew about, it could be compared to putting a registered sex offender in charge of a day care. Someone other than Martin or Incognito could be held accountable.

Do you not read the news? One of the first things that the legal system did for the Aurora shooter was to prove his sanity. Same for the Arizona shooting. Establishing a persons mental status doesn't excuse them from their action, but it does determine how the courts proceed. Same holds true with some of the violent crimes that are happening today. Kids under the age of 16 are being tried as adults. Age is not the only determining factor when establishing mental responsibility.

In the case of Martin, he hasn't done anything physical to hurt anyone when he walked out on his team. The statements he made against Incognito, may be fact based, or they may be how Martin perceived them. He may have made them in response to reports of him admitting himself to a mental hospital. Incognitos suspension may have been due to other circumstances we know nothing about. (such as the golf course, or strip club meetings) If Richie has mental problems that leads to a violent and uncontrollable behavior, the NFL will have to answer some questions. The fact that the NFL nurtures this type of behavior is not the best place for Richie. Win at all costs won't fly here.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Your intelligence is showing.

It's obvious this thread has become more about attacking me, than it is about understanding what is going on. Did you stop and think that Richie's mental issues could come into play if this thing ever goes to court? I would be curious as to the timing and reasoning as to why Incognito sought help from a mental hospital. Was it court ordered? Was it after a physical altercation? Was it league ordered?

If Richie has a diagnosed mental problem that the league and the Dolphins knew about, it could be compared to putting a registered sex offender in charge of a day care. Someone other than Martin or Incognito could be held accountable.

Do you not read the news? One of the first things that the legal system did for the Aurora shooter was to prove his sanity. Same for the Arizona shooting. Establishing a persons mental status doesn't excuse them from their action, but it does determine how the courts proceed. Same holds true with some of the violent crimes that are happening today. Kids under the age of 16 are being tried as adults. Age is not the only determining factor when establishing mental responsibility.

In the case of Martin, he hasn't done anything physical to hurt anyone when he walked out on his team. The statements he made against Incognito, may be fact based, or they may be how Martin perceived them. He may have made them in response to reports of him admitting himself to a mental hospital. Incognitos suspension may have been due to other circumstances we know nothing about. (such as the golf course, or strip club meetings) If Richie has mental problems that leads to a violent and uncontrollable behavior, the NFL will have to answer some questions. The fact that the NFL nurtures this type of behavior is not the best place for Richie. Win at all costs won't fly here.

Oh...but just a couple of days ago you boasted about having several doctors on speed dial that would confirm that mental illness is an excuse for bad behavior. You even alluded to my lack of intelligence for thinking otherwise. I guess things changed drastically since Friday. Or those doctors are very selective about who this theory applies to, based apparently on who you like and who you dont like.

 

[fatness]

What may end up being a bigger problem for everyone involved is all the talk about doing drugs. Sounds like Pouncey was quite involved on that scene.

Don't think much is going to happen with the Martin stuff, but I'm surprised there hasn't been more collateral damage. Thought the "using rookies as ATMs" thing would have real legs

I think it still does. I bet Goodell uses the Dolphins incident as an impetus to develop policies prohibiting things like financial hazing.

I bet you are pissed about that.

####ification of America.

A slap in the face of Dolphins fans.

Did you know Martin's mom is a lawyer?

 

[KCitons]

Your intelligence is showing.

It's obvious this thread has become more about attacking me, than it is about understanding what is going on. Did you stop and think that Richie's mental issues could come into play if this thing ever goes to court? I would be curious as to the timing and reasoning as to why Incognito sought help from a mental hospital. Was it court ordered? Was it after a physical altercation? Was it league ordered?

If Richie has a diagnosed mental problem that the league and the Dolphins knew about, it could be compared to putting a registered sex offender in charge of a day care. Someone other than Martin or Incognito could be held accountable.

Do you not read the news? One of the first things that the legal system did for the Aurora shooter was to prove his sanity. Same for the Arizona shooting. Establishing a persons mental status doesn't excuse them from their action, but it does determine how the courts proceed. Same holds true with some of the violent crimes that are happening today. Kids under the age of 16 are being tried as adults. Age is not the only determining factor when establishing mental responsibility.

In the case of Martin, he hasn't done anything physical to hurt anyone when he walked out on his team. The statements he made against Incognito, may be fact based, or they may be how Martin perceived them. He may have made them in response to reports of him admitting himself to a mental hospital. Incognitos suspension may have been due to other circumstances we know nothing about. (such as the golf course, or strip club meetings) If Richie has mental problems that leads to a violent and uncontrollable behavior, the NFL will have to answer some questions. The fact that the NFL nurtures this type of behavior is not the best place for Richie. Win at all costs won't fly here.

Oh...but just a couple of days ago you boasted about having several doctors on speed dial that would confirm that mental illness is an excuse for bad behavior. You even alluded to my lack of intelligence for thinking otherwise. I guess things changed drastically since Friday. Or those doctors are very selective about who this theory applies to, based apparently on who you like and who you dont like.

You really are lost aren't you Chuck? If there were no negative effects of mental illness, then there would be no need to fix it. Similar to the negative effects of drug addiction or alcoholics. A vast majority of people can have a drink and not fall into an addiction, others shouldn't be attending frat parties and working at bars.

Did you read my post? I questioned when, where, and why Incognito checked into a mental hospital. I would be understanding of his behavior, if he sought treatment early on in his career. I would also be critical of him and the Dolphins, if he had been diagnosed with a condition years ago, and has since been ignoring treatment. If a person has a mental problem that leads to violent behavior, being on an NFL team may not be the best place for him. This was why I referenced winning at all costs. Also take into consideration that the Dolphins may have attempted to hide a sexual assault committed by a person that may have psychological issues. It has to at least raise more questions about Incognito's mental health.

To answer your question about excusing Incognito, I would say perhaps. If he has a mental problem that causes him to act a certain way, then I do not hold him entirely accountable for his actions early on. Once he is made aware of his actions and seeks help, I would expect that excuse to disappear. Richie may have been submitted for mental evaluation after a physical altercation where he hurt someone. At last check, Martin didn't act out in a violent manner, he (or his family) may have seen he was starting to lose it and recommended checking himself into a mental hospital.

You want to classify Incognito and Martin as the same. Richie may have mental issues, but he has a track record of violent behavior. This may have been what led him to the mental hospital. Perhaps a mental institution or jail is the best place for him. Martin, has zero history of violent behavior, and is being proactive in straightening out his mental health instead of acting out violently. Maybe he sees what Incognito has become and doesn't want to end up the same.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

You want to classify Incognito and Martin as the same. Richie may have mental issues, but he has a track record of violent behavior. This may have been what led him to the mental hospital. Perhaps a mental institution or jail is the best place for him. Martin, has zero history of violent behavior, and is being proactive in straightening out his mental health instead of acting out violently. Maybe he sees what Incognito has become and doesn't want to end up the same.

The slackjaw crowd sees no difference between the two people you descried.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

What may end up being a bigger problem for everyone involved is all the talk about doing drugs. Sounds like Pouncey was quite involved on that scene.

Don't think much is going to happen with the Martin stuff, but I'm surprised there hasn't been more collateral damage. Thought the "using rookies as ATMs" thing would have real legs

I think it still does. I bet Goodell uses the Dolphins incident as an impetus to develop policies prohibiting things like financial hazing.

I bet you are pissed about that.

####ification of America.

A slap in the face of Dolphins fans.

Did you know Martin's mom is a lawyer?

What? I could care less about financial hazing one way or the other. Has nothing to do with the wussification of America, and is in no way a slap in the face of the Dolphins fans. Its dumb, but relatively harmless. You can point to a plethora of other slaps that we have had to endure, and you pick this?

Some of you people are so high up on your horses that the thin air is clearly affecting your ability to think.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Your intelligence is showing.

It's obvious this thread has become more about attacking me, than it is about understanding what is going on. Did you stop and think that Richie's mental issues could come into play if this thing ever goes to court? I would be curious as to the timing and reasoning as to why Incognito sought help from a mental hospital. Was it court ordered? Was it after a physical altercation? Was it league ordered?

If Richie has a diagnosed mental problem that the league and the Dolphins knew about, it could be compared to putting a registered sex offender in charge of a day care. Someone other than Martin or Incognito could be held accountable.

Do you not read the news? One of the first things that the legal system did for the Aurora shooter was to prove his sanity. Same for the Arizona shooting. Establishing a persons mental status doesn't excuse them from their action, but it does determine how the courts proceed. Same holds true with some of the violent crimes that are happening today. Kids under the age of 16 are being tried as adults. Age is not the only determining factor when establishing mental responsibility.

In the case of Martin, he hasn't done anything physical to hurt anyone when he walked out on his team. The statements he made against Incognito, may be fact based, or they may be how Martin perceived them. He may have made them in response to reports of him admitting himself to a mental hospital. Incognitos suspension may have been due to other circumstances we know nothing about. (such as the golf course, or strip club meetings) If Richie has mental problems that leads to a violent and uncontrollable behavior, the NFL will have to answer some questions. The fact that the NFL nurtures this type of behavior is not the best place for Richie. Win at all costs won't fly here.

Oh...but just a couple of days ago you boasted about having several doctors on speed dial that would confirm that mental illness is an excuse for bad behavior. You even alluded to my lack of intelligence for thinking otherwise. I guess things changed drastically since Friday. Or those doctors are very selective about who this theory applies to, based apparently on who you like and who you dont like.

You really are lost aren't you Chuck? If there were no negative effects of mental illness, then there would be no need to fix it. Similar to the negative effects of drug addiction or alcoholics. A vast majority of people can have a drink and not fall into an addiction, others shouldn't be attending frat parties and working at bars.

Did you read my post? I questioned when, where, and why Incognito checked into a mental hospital. I would be understanding of his behavior, if he sought treatment early on in his career. I would also be critical of him and the Dolphins, if he had been diagnosed with a condition years ago, and has since been ignoring treatment. If a person has a mental problem that leads to violent behavior, being on an NFL team may not be the best place for him. This was why I referenced winning at all costs. Also take into consideration that the Dolphins may have attempted to hide a sexual assault committed by a person that may have psychological issues. It has to at least raise more questions about Incognito's mental health.

To answer your question about excusing Incognito, I would say perhaps. If he has a mental problem that causes him to act a certain way, then I do not hold him entirely accountable for his actions early on. Once he is made aware of his actions and seeks help, I would expect that excuse to disappear. Richie may have been submitted for mental evaluation after a physical altercation where he hurt someone. At last check, Martin didn't act out in a violent manner, he (or his family) may have seen he was starting to lose it and recommended checking himself into a mental hospital.

You want to classify Incognito and Martin as the same. Richie may have mental issues, but he has a track record of violent behavior. This may have been what led him to the mental hospital. Perhaps a mental institution or jail is the best place for him. Martin, has zero history of violent behavior, and is being proactive in straightening out his mental health instead of acting out violently. Maybe he sees what Incognito has become and doesn't want to end up the same.

You make almost no sense whatsoever.

How did I imply that there is no need to fix mental illness or addiction? Why do you feel the need to bless us with your gospel on these topics when they are in no way relevant?

To me, Richie has demonstrated several characteristics of a mentally ill person. I dont see that as an excuse. It isnt! It is an explanation. Charles Manson is mentally ill. Do you excuse him for his actions? Of course not. But lets find anyone or anything to blame for your boy Johnny's ridiculous and inexcusable behavior. It cant be his fault. He went to Stanford. He hasnt done this before. How could he be bad? He is a "victim". We love him.

 

[KCitons]

Your intelligence is showing.

It's obvious this thread has become more about attacking me, than it is about understanding what is going on. Did you stop and think that Richie's mental issues could come into play if this thing ever goes to court? I would be curious as to the timing and reasoning as to why Incognito sought help from a mental hospital. Was it court ordered? Was it after a physical altercation? Was it league ordered?

If Richie has a diagnosed mental problem that the league and the Dolphins knew about, it could be compared to putting a registered sex offender in charge of a day care. Someone other than Martin or Incognito could be held accountable.

Do you not read the news? One of the first things that the legal system did for the Aurora shooter was to prove his sanity. Same for the Arizona shooting. Establishing a persons mental status doesn't excuse them from their action, but it does determine how the courts proceed. Same holds true with some of the violent crimes that are happening today. Kids under the age of 16 are being tried as adults. Age is not the only determining factor when establishing mental responsibility.

In the case of Martin, he hasn't done anything physical to hurt anyone when he walked out on his team. The statements he made against Incognito, may be fact based, or they may be how Martin perceived them. He may have made them in response to reports of him admitting himself to a mental hospital. Incognitos suspension may have been due to other circumstances we know nothing about. (such as the golf course, or strip club meetings) If Richie has mental problems that leads to a violent and uncontrollable behavior, the NFL will have to answer some questions. The fact that the NFL nurtures this type of behavior is not the best place for Richie. Win at all costs won't fly here.

Oh...but just a couple of days ago you boasted about having several doctors on speed dial that would confirm that mental illness is an excuse for bad behavior. You even alluded to my lack of intelligence for thinking otherwise. I guess things changed drastically since Friday. Or those doctors are very selective about who this theory applies to, based apparently on who you like and who you dont like.

You really are lost aren't you Chuck? If there were no negative effects of mental illness, then there would be no need to fix it. Similar to the negative effects of drug addiction or alcoholics. A vast majority of people can have a drink and not fall into an addiction, others shouldn't be attending frat parties and working at bars.

Did you read my post? I questioned when, where, and why Incognito checked into a mental hospital. I would be understanding of his behavior, if he sought treatment early on in his career. I would also be critical of him and the Dolphins, if he had been diagnosed with a condition years ago, and has since been ignoring treatment. If a person has a mental problem that leads to violent behavior, being on an NFL team may not be the best place for him. This was why I referenced winning at all costs. Also take into consideration that the Dolphins may have attempted to hide a sexual assault committed by a person that may have psychological issues. It has to at least raise more questions about Incognito's mental health.

To answer your question about excusing Incognito, I would say perhaps. If he has a mental problem that causes him to act a certain way, then I do not hold him entirely accountable for his actions early on. Once he is made aware of his actions and seeks help, I would expect that excuse to disappear. Richie may have been submitted for mental evaluation after a physical altercation where he hurt someone. At last check, Martin didn't act out in a violent manner, he (or his family) may have seen he was starting to lose it and recommended checking himself into a mental hospital.

You want to classify Incognito and Martin as the same. Richie may have mental issues, but he has a track record of violent behavior. This may have been what led him to the mental hospital. Perhaps a mental institution or jail is the best place for him. Martin, has zero history of violent behavior, and is being proactive in straightening out his mental health instead of acting out violently. Maybe he sees what Incognito has become and doesn't want to end up the same.

You make almost no sense whatsoever.

How did I imply that there is no need to fix mental illness or addiction? Why do you feel the need to bless us with your gospel on these topics when they are in no way relevant?

To me, Richie has demonstrated several characteristics of a mentally ill person. I dont see that as an excuse. It isnt! It is an explanation. Charles Manson is mentally ill. Do you excuse him for his actions? Of course not. But lets find anyone or anything to blame for your boy Johnny's ridiculous and inexcusable behavior. It cant be his fault. He went to Stanford. He hasnt done this before. How could he be bad? He is a "victim". We love him.

So, then what facts have you used to determine Martin is NOT a victim? From day one, I have said that Martin is a victim because he stated so. The extreme actions of walking away from an NFL team and possibly an NFL career, should be enough for any person to take pause and look for an explanation. Your explanation was a lawsuit. Which hasn't been filed. Your explanation was that he wanted to get paid, since he was going to lose his starting job. He has said he wants to return to the NFL. What's left? What is net gain for Martin in all of this?

Nothing has changed to determine victim or cause in this case. So, I still believe Martin to be a victim. Or at the very least, Martin truly believes he is the victim. (this is where the mental illness may come into play)

Since you brought up Charles Manson, would it be fair to label other members of the Manson Family as being mentally ill? Were they mentally ill before they joined the family? Did Chuck (see the name correlation) have anything to do with changing their mental state?

I'm sure your next post will be how ridiculous my post is, because I'm now comparing Richie Incognito to Charles Manson. I'm not, I simply using him as an example of one person influencing another. The same way you can have a good kid mixed up with a few bad kids. Environment can influence people.

 

[fatness]

What may end up being a bigger problem for everyone involved is all the talk about doing drugs. Sounds like Pouncey was quite involved on that scene.

Don't think much is going to happen with the Martin stuff, but I'm surprised there hasn't been more collateral damage. Thought the "using rookies as ATMs" thing would have real legs

I think it still does. I bet Goodell uses the Dolphins incident as an impetus to develop policies prohibiting things like financial hazing.

I bet you are pissed about that.

####ification of America.

A slap in the face of Dolphins fans.

Did you know Martin's mom is a lawyer?

What? I could care less about financial hazing one way or the other. Has nothing to do with the wussification of America, and is in no way a slap in the face of the Dolphins fans. Its dumb, but relatively harmless. You can point to a plethora of other slaps that we have had to endure, and you pick this?

Some of you people are so high up on your horses that the thin air is clearly affecting your ability to think.

:whoosh:

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Your intelligence is showing.

It's obvious this thread has become more about attacking me, than it is about understanding what is going on. Did you stop and think that Richie's mental issues could come into play if this thing ever goes to court? I would be curious as to the timing and reasoning as to why Incognito sought help from a mental hospital. Was it court ordered? Was it after a physical altercation? Was it league ordered?

If Richie has a diagnosed mental problem that the league and the Dolphins knew about, it could be compared to putting a registered sex offender in charge of a day care. Someone other than Martin or Incognito could be held accountable.

Do you not read the news? One of the first things that the legal system did for the Aurora shooter was to prove his sanity. Same for the Arizona shooting. Establishing a persons mental status doesn't excuse them from their action, but it does determine how the courts proceed. Same holds true with some of the violent crimes that are happening today. Kids under the age of 16 are being tried as adults. Age is not the only determining factor when establishing mental responsibility.

In the case of Martin, he hasn't done anything physical to hurt anyone when he walked out on his team. The statements he made against Incognito, may be fact based, or they may be how Martin perceived them. He may have made them in response to reports of him admitting himself to a mental hospital. Incognitos suspension may have been due to other circumstances we know nothing about. (such as the golf course, or strip club meetings) If Richie has mental problems that leads to a violent and uncontrollable behavior, the NFL will have to answer some questions. The fact that the NFL nurtures this type of behavior is not the best place for Richie. Win at all costs won't fly here.

Oh...but just a couple of days ago you boasted about having several doctors on speed dial that would confirm that mental illness is an excuse for bad behavior. You even alluded to my lack of intelligence for thinking otherwise. I guess things changed drastically since Friday. Or those doctors are very selective about who this theory applies to, based apparently on who you like and who you dont like.

You really are lost aren't you Chuck? If there were no negative effects of mental illness, then there would be no need to fix it. Similar to the negative effects of drug addiction or alcoholics. A vast majority of people can have a drink and not fall into an addiction, others shouldn't be attending frat parties and working at bars.

Did you read my post? I questioned when, where, and why Incognito checked into a mental hospital. I would be understanding of his behavior, if he sought treatment early on in his career. I would also be critical of him and the Dolphins, if he had been diagnosed with a condition years ago, and has since been ignoring treatment. If a person has a mental problem that leads to violent behavior, being on an NFL team may not be the best place for him. This was why I referenced winning at all costs. Also take into consideration that the Dolphins may have attempted to hide a sexual assault committed by a person that may have psychological issues. It has to at least raise more questions about Incognito's mental health.

To answer your question about excusing Incognito, I would say perhaps. If he has a mental problem that causes him to act a certain way, then I do not hold him entirely accountable for his actions early on. Once he is made aware of his actions and seeks help, I would expect that excuse to disappear. Richie may have been submitted for mental evaluation after a physical altercation where he hurt someone. At last check, Martin didn't act out in a violent manner, he (or his family) may have seen he was starting to lose it and recommended checking himself into a mental hospital.

You want to classify Incognito and Martin as the same. Richie may have mental issues, but he has a track record of violent behavior. This may have been what led him to the mental hospital. Perhaps a mental institution or jail is the best place for him. Martin, has zero history of violent behavior, and is being proactive in straightening out his mental health instead of acting out violently. Maybe he sees what Incognito has become and doesn't want to end up the same.

You make almost no sense whatsoever.

How did I imply that there is no need to fix mental illness or addiction? Why do you feel the need to bless us with your gospel on these topics when they are in no way relevant?

To me, Richie has demonstrated several characteristics of a mentally ill person. I dont see that as an excuse. It isnt! It is an explanation. Charles Manson is mentally ill. Do you excuse him for his actions? Of course not. But lets find anyone or anything to blame for your boy Johnny's ridiculous and inexcusable behavior. It cant be his fault. He went to Stanford. He hasnt done this before. How could he be bad? He is a "victim". We love him.

So, then what facts have you used to determine Martin is NOT a victim? From day one, I have said that Martin is a victim because he stated so. The extreme actions of walking away from an NFL team and possibly an NFL career, should be enough for any person to take pause and look for an explanation. Your explanation was a lawsuit. Which hasn't been filed. Your explanation was that he wanted to get paid, since he was going to lose his starting job. He has said he wants to return to the NFL. What's left? What is net gain for Martin in all of this?

Nothing has changed to determine victim or cause in this case. So, I still believe Martin to be a victim. Or at the very least, Martin truly believes he is the victim. (this is where the mental illness may come into play)

Since you brought up Charles Manson, would it be fair to label other members of the Manson Family as being mentally ill? Were they mentally ill before they joined the family? Did Chuck (see the name correlation) have anything to do with changing their mental state?

I'm sure your next post will be how ridiculous my post is, because I'm now comparing Richie Incognito to Charles Manson. I'm not, I simply using him as an example of one person influencing another. The same way you can have a good kid mixed up with a few bad kids. Environment can influence people.

I posted all of your posts up during halftime on my Apple TV so we could all read them aloud and laugh at how ridiculous you are. Way more entertaining than Bruno Mars will ever be. You are fabulous!

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I've mostly stop posting in here but from my sources which are not the best but pretty solid within the Dolphins, this Thursday is supposed to be the boom on this. From what I understand Martin and Incognito are both gonna look foolish BUT Incognito is going to sue the Martin law team for leaking info painting him as a total doosh early on in this situation.

I can't even wrap my head around what Martin and that legal tam was thinking but it seems they wanted to just publicly flog the Miami Dolphins. I'll wait till this unfolds completely but I want to just say to my Phins folks, take it easy on KC, this was a horrible story and people were manipulated by ESPN, media, and I have to remember that I don't watch those shows and I bet they were pretty much soap opera networks when this unfolded. I don't have cable in our house, shocking I know.

I do think MTS deserves every foul post you can throw his/her way, total fishing expedition, surprised he is still active in here.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

my sources which are not the best but pretty solid within the Dolphins

Sure thing, insider.

 

[KCitons]

I've mostly stop posting in here but from my sources which are not the best but pretty solid within the Dolphins, this Thursday is supposed to be the boom on this. From what I understand Martin and Incognito are both gonna look foolish BUT Incognito is going to sue the Martin law team for leaking info painting him as a total doosh early on in this situation.

I can't even wrap my head around what Martin and that legal tam was thinking but it seems they wanted to just publicly flog the Miami Dolphins. I'll wait till this unfolds completely but I want to just say to my Phins folks, take it easy on KC, this was a horrible story and people were manipulated by ESPN, media, and I have to remember that I don't watch those shows and I bet they were pretty much soap opera networks when this unfolded. I don't have cable in our house, shocking I know.

I do think MTS deserves every foul post you can throw his/her way, total fishing expedition, surprised he is still active in here.

Have you heard anything on Incognito's lawsuit? Is he waiting for the Wells report to file?

I'm wondering if he will have a case against Martin. The timeline of when each party released info is important. Even now, there is nothing but a bunch or he said, she said. Only Martin and Incognito know the context of their relationship. I would think Incognito would have a better case against the Dolphins or the NFL. Martin wasn't the person that suspended him. He may have been a reason, but that falls at the feet of the Dolphins. This is why NFL teams take a wait and see approach when a player is arrested. Once the courts are done, the league and teams hand down suspensions.

As far as people taking it easy on me. Thanks for help, but there's only one person that seems to have an issue with me. So much so, that I'm part of his life outside of this board. The scariest thing is that his friends are all gathered together, laughing at a discussion about mental health issues. Wonder if they spent some time after the game perusing the suicide thread or cancer threads in the FFA . Big laughs to be had there for them too.

Karma will catch up with those that find humor in other peoples pain.

 

[KCitons]

I posted all of your posts up during halftime on my Apple TV so we could all read them aloud and laugh at how ridiculous you are. Way more entertaining than Bruno Mars will ever be. You are fabulous!

Seek help Chuck. You're having trouble separating you online life, from your real life.

Feel sorry for your friends. They probably wanted to leave, but they didn't want to miss the second half.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I posted all of your posts up during halftime on my Apple TV so we could all read them aloud and laugh at how ridiculous you are. Way more entertaining than Bruno Mars will ever be. You are fabulous!

Seek help Chuck. You're having trouble separating you online life, from your real life.

Feel sorry for your friends. They probably wanted to leave, but they didn't want to miss the second half.

He's only dialed in for the Miami threads bud. You rarely see him trying to weigh in on any other team…just saying KC. I would let this go. There are no winners in this silliness.

 

[KCitons]

I posted all of your posts up during halftime on my Apple TV so we could all read them aloud and laugh at how ridiculous you are. Way more entertaining than Bruno Mars will ever be. You are fabulous!

Seek help Chuck. You're having trouble separating you online life, from your real life.

Feel sorry for your friends. They probably wanted to leave, but they didn't want to miss the second half.

He's only dialed in for the Miami threads bud. You rarely see him trying to weigh in on any other team…just saying KC. I would let this go. There are no winners in this silliness.

Thanks MOP. I get what you're saying. I'll stop feeding the bear.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Thursday the report will officially be released…local TV here reporting.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Thanks MOP. I get what you're saying. I'll stop feeding the bear.

He's not a bear and you're not a fish, I like you both. I'm not picking sides, I just don't want to see you guys keep going back and forth on this issue. We know how both of you feel and I think after Thrusday the banter will be better and more meaningful once we get the Wells report.

From what I know, Incognito did not talk much to Wells but we'll see if that is the case come Thursday.

 

[KCitons]

Thanks MOP. I get what you're saying. I'll stop feeding the bear.

He's not a bear and you're not a fish, I like you both. I'm not picking sides, I just don't want to see you guys keep going back and forth on this issue. We know how both of you feel and I think after Thrusday the banter will be better and more meaningful once we get the Wells report.

From what I know, Incognito did not talk much to Wells but we'll see if that is the case come Thursday.

Do you question why the NFL chose to delay the Wells report until after the Super Bowl? Some feel it's because there is no story, others think it was bad enough that the NFL wanted to shelve it.

We know the news cycle in this country. Two, maybe three days, and this thing would have been over. By delaying the report for months, it seems the NFL and Dolphins are more to blame for damage to Incognito, if he isn't at fault.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Thanks MOP. I get what you're saying. I'll stop feeding the bear.

He's not a bear and you're not a fish, I like you both. I'm not picking sides, I just don't want to see you guys keep going back and forth on this issue. We know how both of you feel and I think after Thrusday the banter will be better and more meaningful once we get the Wells report.

From what I know, Incognito did not talk much to Wells but we'll see if that is the case come Thursday.

Do you question why the NFL chose to delay the Wells report until after the Super Bowl? Some feel it's because there is no story, others think it was bad enough that the NFL wanted to shelve it.

We know the news cycle in this country. Two, maybe three days, and this thing would have been over. By delaying the report for months, it seems the NFL and Dolphins are more to blame for damage to Incognito, if he isn't at fault.

Oh I know why the NFL waited, they want this story to die like everything else 1-2 days after the SB…90% of most fans will check out until Apr-May and the draft, then nothing until the preseason. We are the nut cases in here that need 24 hour round the clock information.

I think the NFL does not want to answer the tough questions. They don't want to have to make the league worse and restructuring the entire locker rooms would IMO not be a good thing long term for the NFL.

I don't believe either player is gonna look good here.

I think the Thursday release or report will actually have little impact. GM is gone, HC is still here, new GM, nothing will change and Incognito plus Martin are off the team. Martin is gone, will never wear a Miami jersey again, maybe he is happy about that.

The NFL IMO is more worried about repeat type instances for players that might simply want off a team not going anywhere. There are bigger things at play here.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I've mostly stop posting in here but from my sources which are not the best but pretty solid within the Dolphins, this Thursday is supposed to be the boom on this. From what I understand Martin and Incognito are both gonna look foolish BUT Incognito is going to sue the Martin law team for leaking info painting him as a total doosh early on in this situation.

I can't even wrap my head around what Martin and that legal tam was thinking but it seems they wanted to just publicly flog the Miami Dolphins. I'll wait till this unfolds completely but I want to just say to my Phins folks, take it easy on KC, this was a horrible story and people were manipulated by ESPN, media, and I have to remember that I don't watch those shows and I bet they were pretty much soap opera networks when this unfolded. I don't have cable in our house, shocking I know.

I do think MTS deserves every foul post you can throw his/her way, total fishing expedition, surprised he is still active in here.

Have you heard anything on Incognito's lawsuit? Is he waiting for the Wells report to file?

I'm wondering if he will have a case against Martin. The timeline of when each party released info is important. Even now, there is nothing but a bunch or he said, she said. Only Martin and Incognito know the context of their relationship. I would think Incognito would have a better case against the Dolphins or the NFL. Martin wasn't the person that suspended him. He may have been a reason, but that falls at the feet of the Dolphins. This is why NFL teams take a wait and see approach when a player is arrested. Once the courts are done, the league and teams hand down suspensions.

As far as people taking it easy on me. Thanks for help, but there's only one person that seems to have an issue with me. So much so, that I'm part of his life outside of this board. The scariest thing is that his friends are all gathered together, laughing at a discussion about mental health issues. Wonder if they spent some time after the game perusing the suicide thread or cancer threads in the FFA . Big laughs to be had there for them too.

Karma will catch up with those that find humor in other peoples pain.

Its not other people's pain that we found the humor in. Its other people's double talk, blatant hypocrisy, "bias" (ahahahahaha!!), rudeness, and general foolishness when trying so hard to be taken seriously that we found humor in. So many "have you ever thought that maybe...." statements that were so ludicrous. Looking back at them is fun. Especially since you refuse to let these silly points drop regardless of what common sense dictates. People did admire your loyalty to your cause...as lost as it clearly is to anyone else who has an IQ over 12.

 

[KCitons]

I've mostly stop posting in here but from my sources which are not the best but pretty solid within the Dolphins, this Thursday is supposed to be the boom on this. From what I understand Martin and Incognito are both gonna look foolish BUT Incognito is going to sue the Martin law team for leaking info painting him as a total doosh early on in this situation.

I can't even wrap my head around what Martin and that legal tam was thinking but it seems they wanted to just publicly flog the Miami Dolphins. I'll wait till this unfolds completely but I want to just say to my Phins folks, take it easy on KC, this was a horrible story and people were manipulated by ESPN, media, and I have to remember that I don't watch those shows and I bet they were pretty much soap opera networks when this unfolded. I don't have cable in our house, shocking I know.

I do think MTS deserves every foul post you can throw his/her way, total fishing expedition, surprised he is still active in here.

Have you heard anything on Incognito's lawsuit? Is he waiting for the Wells report to file?

I'm wondering if he will have a case against Martin. The timeline of when each party released info is important. Even now, there is nothing but a bunch or he said, she said. Only Martin and Incognito know the context of their relationship. I would think Incognito would have a better case against the Dolphins or the NFL. Martin wasn't the person that suspended him. He may have been a reason, but that falls at the feet of the Dolphins. This is why NFL teams take a wait and see approach when a player is arrested. Once the courts are done, the league and teams hand down suspensions.

As far as people taking it easy on me. Thanks for help, but there's only one person that seems to have an issue with me. So much so, that I'm part of his life outside of this board. The scariest thing is that his friends are all gathered together, laughing at a discussion about mental health issues. Wonder if they spent some time after the game perusing the suicide thread or cancer threads in the FFA . Big laughs to be had there for them too.

Karma will catch up with those that find humor in other peoples pain.

Its not other people's pain that we found the humor in. Its other people's double talk, blatant hypocrisy, "bias" (ahahahahaha!!), rudeness, and general foolishness when trying so hard to be taken seriously that we found humor in. So many "have you ever thought that maybe...." statements that were so ludicrous. Looking back at them is fun. Especially since you refuse to let these silly points drop regardless of what common sense dictates. People did admire your loyalty to your cause...as lost as it clearly is to anyone else who has an IQ over 12.

I was referring to those that find humor in the discussion of mental illness.

See you Thursday.

 

[fatness]

I've mostly stop posting in here but from my sources which are not the best but pretty solid within the Dolphins, this Thursday is supposed to be the boom on this. From what I understand Martin and Incognito are both gonna look foolish BUT Incognito is going to sue the Martin law team for leaking info painting him as a total doosh early on in this situation.

So Incognito has been in a mental institution (according to himself), bullied other teammates, got himself kicked off the team, and is looking for a big payday (according to your sources).

Martin has been in a mental institution (according to himself), was bullied by Incognito and other Dolphins in his first and second seasons, left the team, and there are no reports he's suing anyone.

Looks pretty clownish to be bagging on Martin as the bad guy.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I've mostly stop posting in here but from my sources which are not the best but pretty solid within the Dolphins, this Thursday is supposed to be the boom on this. From what I understand Martin and Incognito are both gonna look foolish BUT Incognito is going to sue the Martin law team for leaking info painting him as a total doosh early on in this situation.

So Incognito has been in a mental institution (according to himself), bullied other teammates, got himself kicked off the team, and is looking for a big payday (according to your sources).

Martin has been in a mental institution (according to himself), was bullied by Incognito and other Dolphins in his first and second seasons, left the team, and there are no reports he's suing anyone.

Looks pretty clownish to be bagging on Martin as the bad guy.

Oh my god...unbelievable how people see things the way they so desperately want to see them.

1. Speculation on Richie suing the team is no different than speculation on Johnny suing the team. Difference is, Richie would have a real case, and it would be a reactionary decision rather than a proactive decision like Johnny Victim.

2, No real evidence that Richie ever bullied any teammates. Thats just how you want to see it.

3. No evidence that Richie is looking for a big payday. If anything, he would be looking to right a wrong, and be made whole financially. He may be a huge villain in many instances, but in this one, he would be doing what he has to to be made whole. He didnt quit the team, and then seek a way to make millions of dollars without working. He is reacting to the fact that his career may be over due to negligence on the part of many, including but not limited to false allegations from Johnny Victim. INCREDIBLE how people refuse to see this. Blinders.

4. I am sure Johnny hired a lawyer just to be charitable to the profession. Unbelievable that this point continues to be argued. Grasping for anyone to blame other than the true bad guy in this whole fiasco. If he does not file a lawsuit, it will only be due to the fact that his case was torn to shreds by the truth. So blatantly obvious to anyone not wearing blinders.

 

[fatness]

1. Speculation on Richie suing the team is no different than speculation on Johnny suing the team. Difference is, Richie would have a real case, and it would be a reactionary decision rather than a proactive decision like Johnny Victim.2, No real evidence that Richie ever bullied any teammates. Thats just how you want to see it.

3. No evidence that Richie is looking for a big payday. If anything, he would be looking to right a wrong, and be made whole financially. He may be a huge villain in many instances, but in this one, he would be doing what he has to to be made whole. He didnt quit the team, and then seek a way to make millions of dollars without working. He is reacting to the fact that his career may be over due to negligence on the part of many, including but not limited to false allegations from Johnny Victim. INCREDIBLE how people refuse to see this. Blinders.

These 3 are hilarious.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

1. Speculation on Richie suing the team is no different than speculation on Johnny suing the team. Difference is, Richie would have a real case, and it would be a reactionary decision rather than a proactive decision like Johnny Victim.2, No real evidence that Richie ever bullied any teammates. Thats just how you want to see it.

3. No evidence that Richie is looking for a big payday. If anything, he would be looking to right a wrong, and be made whole financially. He may be a huge villain in many instances, but in this one, he would be doing what he has to to be made whole. He didnt quit the team, and then seek a way to make millions of dollars without working. He is reacting to the fact that his career may be over due to negligence on the part of many, including but not limited to false allegations from Johnny Victim. INCREDIBLE how people refuse to see this. Blinders.

These 3 are hilarious.

How can you possibly find humor in a thread about mental illness?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

It's sad that the Chuck Liddell group keeps repeated the "No WE are the smart ones, you are the stupid ones!" refrain. Some of those guys are barely literate, and I think we all know who we are talking about here.