ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
I dont like to entertain the posts of trolls, but the irony of this particular one calling someone else illiterate in a post that displays a lack of literacy is awesome.
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Dolphin Players bullied Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito SUSPENDED (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter KellysHeroes
- Start date
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I never said Incognito was looking for a big payday, me might sue for $1,000 just to prove a point at the end of this. I think he is trying to clear his name. Despite his other off the field incidents along the way, many teams would still like him to be their LG and he could start for probably half the league if not more. This is about Richie making sure he can sign a deal somewhere IMO.
My friend, please dial it down a notch on this topic. The report is supposed to come out Thursday, wasn't long after I heard about this that it seems to go viral quickly so I didn't have any secret info, it was coming out anyways. It's hard for teams to keep any secrets these days with so much going on in social media and so many beat reporters having access and contacts.
And the only thing clownish is you with the name calling. I think I am down to about 1-2 posts per page, Chuck seems to be handling things fine in here so most of us have relegated to letting him argue with you, KC, and the Troll who many of us have on ignore. Whatever camp it is that you all fall into, there seems to be way more name calling on your alls side of the fence. It's juvenile, stop it.
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MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
I figured I'd throw you a bone here, since you've been getting your ### kicked since page 4. Now if you mother wasn't busy doing other things when you were a child, you'd learn when to say thank you.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
You know you aren't fooling anyone here. Calling other people names then doing a high road act is full speed hypocrisy.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Just being a good Samaritan and picking up the putrid garbage that continually gets tossed onto the road that is this thread.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Do you really think you are "winning" arguments in this thead? Really?
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I know the lawyer representing Incognito. I doubt he's planning a lawsuit (against Martin) for two reasons. (1) he's a criminal defense attorney who works for a civil defense firm that does little plaintiff's work; and (2) he almost certainly was referred by his friend DeMaurice Smith and I don't think Dee would want two players union members going after each other this way.
An action against the league seems more plausible to me.
I have no inside information, I'm just basing it off what I know about Richie's counsel and the way I see possible claims.
An action against the league seems more plausible to me.
I have no inside information, I'm just basing it off what I know about Richie's counsel and the way I see possible claims.
fatness
Footballguy
The idea that Incognito would sue Martin for $1000 is clownish. Incognito will get an offer or offers from NFL teams anyway. Martin may get an offer or offer as well. The only thing such an imagined suit might accomplish is to give some sort of "there, I told you so" comfort to a few message board posters here. And doing that is far below Incognito's radar, and accomplishes nothing he needs. It's a silly idea that your "sources" floated.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
OK, I'm done even replying to you in this thread, perhaps others. I thought you were above it a bit but have at it. Your beloved Skins are about a half step from becoming the Phins in the front office so I don't know why you seem to have such a good time trying to derail Miami fans and acting like a ham flower to everyone in here.
Cheers
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Todem
Footballguy
I am very interested in the report being released Thursday.
Looking forward to maybe getting some closure on this matter. Whatever it may say.
My gut tells me it will end up being a politically correct report and my gut tells me it will show that both parties are guilty of things and all of this without a doubt could have been handled better on both sides.
But.......we shall see what Wells and his team interpret from all of interviews, evidence etc. It's been long enough.
Looking forward to maybe getting some closure on this matter. Whatever it may say.
My gut tells me it will end up being a politically correct report and my gut tells me it will show that both parties are guilty of things and all of this without a doubt could have been handled better on both sides.
But.......we shall see what Wells and his team interpret from all of interviews, evidence etc. It's been long enough.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
It sucks when people you put on ignore still post emphatically towards you, about you, and have to come behind every post you make with some smile comment. I thought that stalking was against the house rules in here, I know things have laxed a bit more recently but...
And when you get PMs from others alerting you to it, starts to get a little weird.
And when you get PMs from others alerting you to it, starts to get a little weird.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
This just came out on PFT - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/03/texts-between-martin-and-incognito-finally-surface/
A lot of us have already seen most of these texts surface in other areas. Whats great about this article is the comments from readers. It is so refreshing to see so many people who are able to shed their blinders and admit that they had been incorrectly swayed by initial media reports. The opinions of the general public do not seem to align with the few people in here who insist on blaming others for the actions of Johnny Victim. Seems that many people are in fact able to see a correlation between what his parents do for a living, his ulterior motives with regard to hiring lawyers, the correlation between his demotion and his exodus, his scapegoating of Incognito, and his general weakness of character. Amazing what you can see when you actually open your eyes...and your mind.
My faith in humanity outside of this forum has been restored.
A lot of us have already seen most of these texts surface in other areas. Whats great about this article is the comments from readers. It is so refreshing to see so many people who are able to shed their blinders and admit that they had been incorrectly swayed by initial media reports. The opinions of the general public do not seem to align with the few people in here who insist on blaming others for the actions of Johnny Victim. Seems that many people are in fact able to see a correlation between what his parents do for a living, his ulterior motives with regard to hiring lawyers, the correlation between his demotion and his exodus, his scapegoating of Incognito, and his general weakness of character. Amazing what you can see when you actually open your eyes...and your mind.
My faith in humanity outside of this forum has been restored.
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Martin comes across like a dude playing along with idiocy. He is probably gay....not that there is anything wrong with that.
Uwe Blab
Footballguy
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
TheMagus
Footballguy
Yep. I just read the whole thing. I am interested in watching ESPN tomorrow to see what they have to say now.
fatness
Footballguy
Same here. Although I do think Ross was given a general idea of what the report would say some time ago. Wells concluded the investigation awhile back, and it was the NFL who decided to delay releasing it until after the Super Bowl to keep down negative attention during the playoffs. Leaving Ross totally in the dark wouldn't have been quite fair. And Ross seemed to have a pretty definite idea of who he was going to keep and who he was going to let go of in the front office. I don't think he did that with no idea of where the report would point.Todem said:
Once it's released the whole issue will fade away. It already has for most of the country, and for Dolphins fans upcoming decisions in free agency and the draft will become more important.
KCitons
Footballguy
Careful MOP. You tend to pick and choose who gets to take jabs at people. If you can dish it out, you should be able to take it.
These texts are no different than what Martin's camp released months ago. They may be incomplete and may not be taken in context. This is the same thing that was said when Martin's texts came out. Those that are jumping to conclusions now are doing the same thing ESPN and the media did.
I mentioned the sudden increase in activity. Incognito hiring a PR guy, the Martin interview last week, and now the release of these texts by Incognito's camp. Even a blind person can see both sides are posturing. If there was nothing to worry about, then why posture? I watched a report on Fox about the PR guy. He is supposed to be a cutthroat kind of guy, so he will use anything possible to earn his keep.
The Wells report, and any lawsuit will be the only way to get the real facts. I'm actually hoping either Martin or Incognito files a suit. It was mentioned that Wells had no subpoena power to make players discuss what happened.
For those stating that Martin cost Richie his job, I think you need to take another look at Richie's career and the new things that surfaced during this investigation. You call it unfair, I call it Karma.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
So when you said "See you Thursday", what you really meant was "See you later today". I got it. Starting to get a better grasp on the code that you use to communicate.
Yeah...when J.Victim's peeps leaked texts that only showed one side of the communication and painted Richie as a heartless monster, that was about the same as Richie leaking full text conversations showing exactly what the context of the communication entailed. Got it. Exactly the same...if you are wearing blinders.
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KCitons
Footballguy
Yeah Chuck, you figured that all out on your own. Maybe I underestimated your intelligence. I would have waited until Thursday, but when someone refers to people as garbage, I feel it necessary to speak up.
Nothing, over the last week has changed anything. At least not in the area of finding the truth. It's just both sides doing what they are paid to do. If all it took to prove innocence or guilt was to have a lawyer release a statement, then we wouldn't need courts. Still no word on other financial hazing, still no word on any physical altercations.
Regardless of the outcome, you've defined yourself pretty well. You probably mirror Incognito. Bordering on bully most of your life. I would venture to guess you played a little football at a junior college, but the grades ultimately got the better of you and you had to drop out. You work in the blue collar or construction field and think that a man's worth is determined by his physical strength. Anyone with a greater intelligence than you, is a threat. And anyone with a weakness is fair game for laugh. You're quick to raise your voice and quicker to raise your hand. Your battles are fought with fists instead of wit. You surround yourself with like minded people, or at least you think they are like you. When in reality, they are afraid to disagree with you for fear of becoming one of your targets.
I'm pretty certain your next post will include one of these
. When it should be one of these 
Those texts sure paint Incognito in a better light (regarding his interaction with Martin) than what's been in the media up till now.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
You are dead wrong on pretty much all of that...but you should not be expected to be able to determine things like that from a message board. Where it becomes irresponsible is when you try. You want to know who I am, I am happy to share my linked in info with you. Just PM me, and its yours. You may be surprised. I will give you facebook too. You can see who I am . Nothing to hide.Yeah Chuck, you figured that all out on your own. Maybe I underestimated your intelligence. I would have waited until Thursday, but when someone refers to people as garbage, I feel it necessary to speak up.
Nothing, over the last week has changed anything. At least not in the area of finding the truth. It's just both sides doing what they are paid to do. If all it took to prove innocence or guilt was to have a lawyer release a statement, then we wouldn't need courts. Still no word on other financial hazing, still no word on any physical altercations.
Regardless of the outcome, you've defined yourself pretty well. You probably mirror Incognito. Bordering on bully most of your life. I would venture to guess you played a little football at a junior college, but the grades ultimately got the better of you and you had to drop out. You work in the blue collar or construction field and think that a man's worth is determined by his physical strength. Anyone with a greater intelligence than you, is a threat. And anyone with a weakness is fair game for laugh. You're quick to raise your voice and quicker to raise your hand. Your battles are fought with fists instead of wit. You surround yourself with like minded people, or at least you think they are like you. When in reality, they are afraid to disagree with you for fear of becoming one of your targets.
I'm pretty certain your next post will include one of these
You may also want to read this in its entirety.
Here's all the texts:
http://usatthebiglea.../02/ritojm1.pdf
Forget for a second how much you despise me and what you feel that I stand for. Just read this in its entirety, and then come back and tell me what your real takeaway is on what is going on here. Try for one minute to look at this with any semblance of an open mind. There is pretty much no chance you stand firm in your position if you actually read these. Even the financial hazing is exposed as complete nonsense in those texts. Its a lot, but I promise you its worth it, as long as you really want to see what the truth is. You wont like it at all, but at least you will know.
ETA: I didnt call you garbage. I called the crud that you type on this board garbage. I TRY not to get into name calling, although admittedly I have been dragged into that with you on a few occasions. I am totally fine eliminating that nonsense. The facts at this point kind of say it all. Also, I have never ever used one of those avatars, or whatever it is with the yellow dude rolling around laughing. Not my thing. As well as you think you know me, its crazy that you expected that from me. I dont even know where to find those to use them, and dont care. My preference is to use my stellar vocabulary to get my points across.
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lakerstan
Footballguy
It seems that these guys were good friends, Martin had a breakdown of sorts, and said things he shouldn't have and that he probably regrets. Then it got blown up in the media, the team had to play damage control, and now lawyers and agents are involved. I hope that by the end of it, people can return their lives to some normalcy.
KCitons
Footballguy
Chuck, I read all of those last night. Tell me what the difference is between the texts that Martin released and the texts the Incognito released? We don't know if either is being completely honest, but we can be certain that both are trying to use it to prove their side of the case.You are dead wrong on pretty much all of that...but you should not be expected to be able to determine things like that from a message board. Where it becomes irresponsible is when you try. You want to know who I am, I am happy to share my linked in info with you. Just PM me, and its yours. You may be surprised. I will give you facebook too. You can see who I am . Nothing to hide.Yeah Chuck, you figured that all out on your own. Maybe I underestimated your intelligence. I would have waited until Thursday, but when someone refers to people as garbage, I feel it necessary to speak up.
Nothing, over the last week has changed anything. At least not in the area of finding the truth. It's just both sides doing what they are paid to do. If all it took to prove innocence or guilt was to have a lawyer release a statement, then we wouldn't need courts. Still no word on other financial hazing, still no word on any physical altercations.
Regardless of the outcome, you've defined yourself pretty well. You probably mirror Incognito. Bordering on bully most of your life. I would venture to guess you played a little football at a junior college, but the grades ultimately got the better of you and you had to drop out. You work in the blue collar or construction field and think that a man's worth is determined by his physical strength. Anyone with a greater intelligence than you, is a threat. And anyone with a weakness is fair game for laugh. You're quick to raise your voice and quicker to raise your hand. Your battles are fought with fists instead of wit. You surround yourself with like minded people, or at least you think they are like you. When in reality, they are afraid to disagree with you for fear of becoming one of your targets.
I'm pretty certain your next post will include one of these
You may also want to read this in its entirety.
Here's all the texts:
http://usatthebiglea.../02/ritojm1.pdf
Forget for a second how much you despise me and what you feel that I stand for. Just read this in its entirety, and then come back and tell me what your real takeaway is on what is going on here. Try for one minute to look at this with any semblance of an open mind. There is pretty much no chance you stand firm in your position if you actually read these. Even the financial hazing is exposed as complete nonsense in those texts. Its a lot, but I promise you its worth it, as long as you really want to see what the truth is. You wont like it at all, but at least you will know.
ETA: I didnt call you garbage. I called the crud that you type on this board garbage. I TRY not to get into name calling, although admittedly I have been dragged into that with you on a few occasions. I am totally fine eliminating that nonsense. The facts at this point kind of say it all. Also, I have never ever used one of those avatars, or whatever it is with the yellow dude rolling around laughing. Not my thing. As well as you think you know me, its crazy that you expected that from me. I dont even know where to find those to use them, and dont care. My preference is to use my stellar vocabulary to get my points across.
Why the sudden activity by both sides this week? If there is zero reason to blame Richie, then teams will be lining up to sign him. No need for a PR person. You only need to read the comments to see the way public opinion swings on these things. When Martin released his stuff, everyone was talking about Incognito being a POS. Now they are saying Richie is the victim. Both times people were wrong. As I already mentioned, defense lawyers release a statements stating their clients are innocent. I guess we should believe everything they say from now on.
As far as your facebook, or linked in, no thanks. I really don't want to have any more contact with you than necessary. The only reason I've spent so much time commenting in this thread is because I felt you've played the part of a bully from the beginning. From day one, you pegged Martin as a wuss. Regardless of the outcome, you were never prepared to listen to what Martin had to say. He was the cause of turmoil with your favorite team, and that was more important than anything else. Yesterday was an excellent example. I mentioned stepping away until Thursday, and instead of following suit, you use it as an opportunity to attack people. Again, a lack of tolerance on your part.
For me, nothing has changed with this case. We still have very few facts. Everyone from Martin and Richie, to the Dolphins and the NFL will have a lot of explaining to do in the days ahead.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
I never said I was stepping away until Thursday. What are you, like the Batman of this thread? Did someone send up a signal so that you could come save everyone from evil Chuck who was so bold as to call some of the posts on here "garbage"?Chuck, I read all of those last night. Tell me what the difference is between the texts that Martin released and the texts the Incognito released? We don't know if either is being completely honest, but we can be certain that both are trying to use it to prove their side of the case.You are dead wrong on pretty much all of that...but you should not be expected to be able to determine things like that from a message board. Where it becomes irresponsible is when you try. You want to know who I am, I am happy to share my linked in info with you. Just PM me, and its yours. You may be surprised. I will give you facebook too. You can see who I am . Nothing to hide.Yeah Chuck, you figured that all out on your own. Maybe I underestimated your intelligence. I would have waited until Thursday, but when someone refers to people as garbage, I feel it necessary to speak up.
Nothing, over the last week has changed anything. At least not in the area of finding the truth. It's just both sides doing what they are paid to do. If all it took to prove innocence or guilt was to have a lawyer release a statement, then we wouldn't need courts. Still no word on other financial hazing, still no word on any physical altercations.
Regardless of the outcome, you've defined yourself pretty well. You probably mirror Incognito. Bordering on bully most of your life. I would venture to guess you played a little football at a junior college, but the grades ultimately got the better of you and you had to drop out. You work in the blue collar or construction field and think that a man's worth is determined by his physical strength. Anyone with a greater intelligence than you, is a threat. And anyone with a weakness is fair game for laugh. You're quick to raise your voice and quicker to raise your hand. Your battles are fought with fists instead of wit. You surround yourself with like minded people, or at least you think they are like you. When in reality, they are afraid to disagree with you for fear of becoming one of your targets.
I'm pretty certain your next post will include one of these
You may also want to read this in its entirety.
Here's all the texts:
http://usatthebiglea.../02/ritojm1.pdf
Forget for a second how much you despise me and what you feel that I stand for. Just read this in its entirety, and then come back and tell me what your real takeaway is on what is going on here. Try for one minute to look at this with any semblance of an open mind. There is pretty much no chance you stand firm in your position if you actually read these. Even the financial hazing is exposed as complete nonsense in those texts. Its a lot, but I promise you its worth it, as long as you really want to see what the truth is. You wont like it at all, but at least you will know.
ETA: I didnt call you garbage. I called the crud that you type on this board garbage. I TRY not to get into name calling, although admittedly I have been dragged into that with you on a few occasions. I am totally fine eliminating that nonsense. The facts at this point kind of say it all. Also, I have never ever used one of those avatars, or whatever it is with the yellow dude rolling around laughing. Not my thing. As well as you think you know me, its crazy that you expected that from me. I dont even know where to find those to use them, and dont care. My preference is to use my stellar vocabulary to get my points across.
Why the sudden activity by both sides this week? If there is zero reason to blame Richie, then teams will be lining up to sign him. No need for a PR person. You only need to read the comments to see the way public opinion swings on these things. When Martin released his stuff, everyone was talking about Incognito being a POS. Now they are saying Richie is the victim. Both times people were wrong. As I already mentioned, defense lawyers release a statements stating their clients are innocent. I guess we should believe everything they say from now on.
As far as your facebook, or linked in, no thanks. I really don't want to have any more contact with you than necessary. The only reason I've spent so much time commenting in this thread is because I felt you've played the part of a bully from the beginning. From day one, you pegged Martin as a wuss. Regardless of the outcome, you were never prepared to listen to what Martin had to say. He was the cause of turmoil with your favorite team, and that was more important than anything else. Yesterday was an excellent example. I mentioned stepping away until Thursday, and instead of following suit, you use it as an opportunity to attack people. Again, a lack of tolerance on your part.
For me, nothing has changed with this case. We still have very few facts. Everyone from Martin and Richie, to the Dolphins and the NFL will have a lot of explaining to do in the days ahead.
You are clearly beyond help here. Your blinders are on so tight they must hurt at this point. I will not justify your garbage post with any more response, because to any sane human being the answers are far, far to obvious, and have already been addressed several times. Regarding the lack of tolerance on my part...you are right. I have to work on building up a better tolerance for stupidity. On this point, we agree.
And if you are so disinterested in who I am, then maybe you should stop writing essays on who you THINK I am on a public message board. I was just trying to help you correct your misguided thesis...again.
The truth does not seem to be something that you are all that interested in.
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KCitons
Footballguy
You never answered my question. What is the difference between the texts released by Martin months ago, and the texts released by Incognito this week?I never said I was stepping away until Thursday. What are you, like the Batman of this thread? Did someone send up a signal so that you could come save everyone from evil Chuck who was so bold as to call some of the posts on here "garbage"?Chuck, I read all of those last night. Tell me what the difference is between the texts that Martin released and the texts the Incognito released? We don't know if either is being completely honest, but we can be certain that both are trying to use it to prove their side of the case.You are dead wrong on pretty much all of that...but you should not be expected to be able to determine things like that from a message board. Where it becomes irresponsible is when you try. You want to know who I am, I am happy to share my linked in info with you. Just PM me, and its yours. You may be surprised. I will give you facebook too. You can see who I am . Nothing to hide.Yeah Chuck, you figured that all out on your own. Maybe I underestimated your intelligence. I would have waited until Thursday, but when someone refers to people as garbage, I feel it necessary to speak up.
Nothing, over the last week has changed anything. At least not in the area of finding the truth. It's just both sides doing what they are paid to do. If all it took to prove innocence or guilt was to have a lawyer release a statement, then we wouldn't need courts. Still no word on other financial hazing, still no word on any physical altercations.
Regardless of the outcome, you've defined yourself pretty well. You probably mirror Incognito. Bordering on bully most of your life. I would venture to guess you played a little football at a junior college, but the grades ultimately got the better of you and you had to drop out. You work in the blue collar or construction field and think that a man's worth is determined by his physical strength. Anyone with a greater intelligence than you, is a threat. And anyone with a weakness is fair game for laugh. You're quick to raise your voice and quicker to raise your hand. Your battles are fought with fists instead of wit. You surround yourself with like minded people, or at least you think they are like you. When in reality, they are afraid to disagree with you for fear of becoming one of your targets.
I'm pretty certain your next post will include one of these
You may also want to read this in its entirety.
Here's all the texts:
http://usatthebiglea.../02/ritojm1.pdf
Forget for a second how much you despise me and what you feel that I stand for. Just read this in its entirety, and then come back and tell me what your real takeaway is on what is going on here. Try for one minute to look at this with any semblance of an open mind. There is pretty much no chance you stand firm in your position if you actually read these. Even the financial hazing is exposed as complete nonsense in those texts. Its a lot, but I promise you its worth it, as long as you really want to see what the truth is. You wont like it at all, but at least you will know.
ETA: I didnt call you garbage. I called the crud that you type on this board garbage. I TRY not to get into name calling, although admittedly I have been dragged into that with you on a few occasions. I am totally fine eliminating that nonsense. The facts at this point kind of say it all. Also, I have never ever used one of those avatars, or whatever it is with the yellow dude rolling around laughing. Not my thing. As well as you think you know me, its crazy that you expected that from me. I dont even know where to find those to use them, and dont care. My preference is to use my stellar vocabulary to get my points across.
Why the sudden activity by both sides this week? If there is zero reason to blame Richie, then teams will be lining up to sign him. No need for a PR person. You only need to read the comments to see the way public opinion swings on these things. When Martin released his stuff, everyone was talking about Incognito being a POS. Now they are saying Richie is the victim. Both times people were wrong. As I already mentioned, defense lawyers release a statements stating their clients are innocent. I guess we should believe everything they say from now on.
As far as your facebook, or linked in, no thanks. I really don't want to have any more contact with you than necessary. The only reason I've spent so much time commenting in this thread is because I felt you've played the part of a bully from the beginning. From day one, you pegged Martin as a wuss. Regardless of the outcome, you were never prepared to listen to what Martin had to say. He was the cause of turmoil with your favorite team, and that was more important than anything else. Yesterday was an excellent example. I mentioned stepping away until Thursday, and instead of following suit, you use it as an opportunity to attack people. Again, a lack of tolerance on your part.
For me, nothing has changed with this case. We still have very few facts. Everyone from Martin and Richie, to the Dolphins and the NFL will have a lot of explaining to do in the days ahead.
You are clearly beyond help here. Your blinders are on so tight they must hurt at this point. I will not justify your garbage post with any more response, because to any sane human being the answers are far, far to obvious, and have already been addressed several times. Regarding the lack of tolerance on my part...you are right. I have to work on building up a better tolerance for stupidity. On this point, we agree.
And if you are so disinterested in who I am, then maybe you should stop writing essays on who you THINK I am on a public message board. I was just trying to help you correct your misguided thesis...again.
The truth does not seem to be something that you are all that interested in.
Simple question.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Because it is so incredibly obvious that I shouldnt have to...and I already have. Pull your brain out of your butt and use it.You never answered my question. What is the difference between the texts released by Martin months ago, and the texts released by Incognito this week?I never said I was stepping away until Thursday. What are you, like the Batman of this thread? Did someone send up a signal so that you could come save everyone from evil Chuck who was so bold as to call some of the posts on here "garbage"?Chuck, I read all of those last night. Tell me what the difference is between the texts that Martin released and the texts the Incognito released? We don't know if either is being completely honest, but we can be certain that both are trying to use it to prove their side of the case.You are dead wrong on pretty much all of that...but you should not be expected to be able to determine things like that from a message board. Where it becomes irresponsible is when you try. You want to know who I am, I am happy to share my linked in info with you. Just PM me, and its yours. You may be surprised. I will give you facebook too. You can see who I am . Nothing to hide.Yeah Chuck, you figured that all out on your own. Maybe I underestimated your intelligence. I would have waited until Thursday, but when someone refers to people as garbage, I feel it necessary to speak up.
Nothing, over the last week has changed anything. At least not in the area of finding the truth. It's just both sides doing what they are paid to do. If all it took to prove innocence or guilt was to have a lawyer release a statement, then we wouldn't need courts. Still no word on other financial hazing, still no word on any physical altercations.
Regardless of the outcome, you've defined yourself pretty well. You probably mirror Incognito. Bordering on bully most of your life. I would venture to guess you played a little football at a junior college, but the grades ultimately got the better of you and you had to drop out. You work in the blue collar or construction field and think that a man's worth is determined by his physical strength. Anyone with a greater intelligence than you, is a threat. And anyone with a weakness is fair game for laugh. You're quick to raise your voice and quicker to raise your hand. Your battles are fought with fists instead of wit. You surround yourself with like minded people, or at least you think they are like you. When in reality, they are afraid to disagree with you for fear of becoming one of your targets.
I'm pretty certain your next post will include one of these
You may also want to read this in its entirety.
Here's all the texts:
http://usatthebiglea.../02/ritojm1.pdf
Forget for a second how much you despise me and what you feel that I stand for. Just read this in its entirety, and then come back and tell me what your real takeaway is on what is going on here. Try for one minute to look at this with any semblance of an open mind. There is pretty much no chance you stand firm in your position if you actually read these. Even the financial hazing is exposed as complete nonsense in those texts. Its a lot, but I promise you its worth it, as long as you really want to see what the truth is. You wont like it at all, but at least you will know.
ETA: I didnt call you garbage. I called the crud that you type on this board garbage. I TRY not to get into name calling, although admittedly I have been dragged into that with you on a few occasions. I am totally fine eliminating that nonsense. The facts at this point kind of say it all. Also, I have never ever used one of those avatars, or whatever it is with the yellow dude rolling around laughing. Not my thing. As well as you think you know me, its crazy that you expected that from me. I dont even know where to find those to use them, and dont care. My preference is to use my stellar vocabulary to get my points across.
Why the sudden activity by both sides this week? If there is zero reason to blame Richie, then teams will be lining up to sign him. No need for a PR person. You only need to read the comments to see the way public opinion swings on these things. When Martin released his stuff, everyone was talking about Incognito being a POS. Now they are saying Richie is the victim. Both times people were wrong. As I already mentioned, defense lawyers release a statements stating their clients are innocent. I guess we should believe everything they say from now on.
As far as your facebook, or linked in, no thanks. I really don't want to have any more contact with you than necessary. The only reason I've spent so much time commenting in this thread is because I felt you've played the part of a bully from the beginning. From day one, you pegged Martin as a wuss. Regardless of the outcome, you were never prepared to listen to what Martin had to say. He was the cause of turmoil with your favorite team, and that was more important than anything else. Yesterday was an excellent example. I mentioned stepping away until Thursday, and instead of following suit, you use it as an opportunity to attack people. Again, a lack of tolerance on your part.
For me, nothing has changed with this case. We still have very few facts. Everyone from Martin and Richie, to the Dolphins and the NFL will have a lot of explaining to do in the days ahead.
You are clearly beyond help here. Your blinders are on so tight they must hurt at this point. I will not justify your garbage post with any more response, because to any sane human being the answers are far, far to obvious, and have already been addressed several times. Regarding the lack of tolerance on my part...you are right. I have to work on building up a better tolerance for stupidity. On this point, we agree.
And if you are so disinterested in who I am, then maybe you should stop writing essays on who you THINK I am on a public message board. I was just trying to help you correct your misguided thesis...again.
The truth does not seem to be something that you are all that interested in.
Simple question.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
1st sentence equals complete and total BS, you are blind or trolling now.
As far as the second sentence:
If that's no help please refer to your neighborhood moron or stop at your local zoo, one of the exhibits can surely explain the difference. Please excuse their look of confusion when you ask the question, they won't be able to hide how they feel.
Timmay
Footballguy
The texts make Incognito look a ton better. I am on his side as of now. Almost everything on there seems like normal man to man banter. I'm sure what they have exchanged between each other is what most friends on a professional level have exchanged. Martin comes off like a big pu$$y.
(HULK)
(Smash)
KCitons
Footballguy
Your making the assumption that both Martin and Incognito released everything and not just those texts that prove their side.
Why is this such a difficult thing to understand? The only difference is Martin supporters believed Martins texts. Now, Incognito supporters are believing Richie's texts. This is why a third party is brought in to determine what is facts and what is true.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
No I wouldn't say that's the case...I feel quite comfortable, operating on the presumption of accuracy of the newly released texts, that Incognito is the victim. Based on the fact that Martin initiated and action that smeared Incognito on a national, public level and caused him to be suspended for half of an NFL season for what appears no justifiable reason. Those are 8 games he won't get back. And he stands every chance of being blacklisted and blackballed based on him being nuclear by association.Chuck, I read all of those last night. Tell me what the difference is between the texts that Martin released and the texts the Incognito released? We don't know if either is being completely honest, but we can be certain that both are trying to use it to prove their side of the case.You are dead wrong on pretty much all of that...but you should not be expected to be able to determine things like that from a message board. Where it becomes irresponsible is when you try. You want to know who I am, I am happy to share my linked in info with you. Just PM me, and its yours. You may be surprised. I will give you facebook too. You can see who I am . Nothing to hide.Yeah Chuck, you figured that all out on your own. Maybe I underestimated your intelligence. I would have waited until Thursday, but when someone refers to people as garbage, I feel it necessary to speak up.
Nothing, over the last week has changed anything. At least not in the area of finding the truth. It's just both sides doing what they are paid to do. If all it took to prove innocence or guilt was to have a lawyer release a statement, then we wouldn't need courts. Still no word on other financial hazing, still no word on any physical altercations.
Regardless of the outcome, you've defined yourself pretty well. You probably mirror Incognito. Bordering on bully most of your life. I would venture to guess you played a little football at a junior college, but the grades ultimately got the better of you and you had to drop out. You work in the blue collar or construction field and think that a man's worth is determined by his physical strength. Anyone with a greater intelligence than you, is a threat. And anyone with a weakness is fair game for laugh. You're quick to raise your voice and quicker to raise your hand. Your battles are fought with fists instead of wit. You surround yourself with like minded people, or at least you think they are like you. When in reality, they are afraid to disagree with you for fear of becoming one of your targets.
I'm pretty certain your next post will include one of these
You may also want to read this in its entirety.
Here's all the texts:
http://usatthebiglea.../02/ritojm1.pdf
Forget for a second how much you despise me and what you feel that I stand for. Just read this in its entirety, and then come back and tell me what your real takeaway is on what is going on here. Try for one minute to look at this with any semblance of an open mind. There is pretty much no chance you stand firm in your position if you actually read these. Even the financial hazing is exposed as complete nonsense in those texts. Its a lot, but I promise you its worth it, as long as you really want to see what the truth is. You wont like it at all, but at least you will know.
ETA: I didnt call you garbage. I called the crud that you type on this board garbage. I TRY not to get into name calling, although admittedly I have been dragged into that with you on a few occasions. I am totally fine eliminating that nonsense. The facts at this point kind of say it all. Also, I have never ever used one of those avatars, or whatever it is with the yellow dude rolling around laughing. Not my thing. As well as you think you know me, its crazy that you expected that from me. I dont even know where to find those to use them, and dont care. My preference is to use my stellar vocabulary to get my points across.
Why the sudden activity by both sides this week? If there is zero reason to blame Richie, then teams will be lining up to sign him. No need for a PR person. You only need to read the comments to see the way public opinion swings on these things. When Martin released his stuff, everyone was talking about Incognito being a POS. Now they are saying Richie is the victim. Both times people were wrong. As I already mentioned, defense lawyers release a statements stating their clients are innocent. I guess we should believe everything they say from now on.
As far as your facebook, or linked in, no thanks. I really don't want to have any more contact with you than necessary. The only reason I've spent so much time commenting in this thread is because I felt you've played the part of a bully from the beginning. From day one, you pegged Martin as a wuss. Regardless of the outcome, you were never prepared to listen to what Martin had to say. He was the cause of turmoil with your favorite team, and that was more important than anything else. Yesterday was an excellent example. I mentioned stepping away until Thursday, and instead of following suit, you use it as an opportunity to attack people. Again, a lack of tolerance on your part.
For me, nothing has changed with this case. We still have very few facts. Everyone from Martin and Richie, to the Dolphins and the NFL will have a lot of explaining to do in the days ahead.
To me, as a hopefully accurately self-assessed and self described reasonable person, the question in this to me is this: Is there anything in those pages of exchanges that would have lead me to believe if I were Incognito that the party I was conversing with was uncomfortable with the tone and tenor of the dialogue. Basically, are you "bullying" someone if you don't intend to bully them? Its ok for someone to feel bullied, and Martin's got every right to his feelings but it doesn't mean they are accurate or reasonable. There is nothing that would limit or restrict Incognito in those exchanges.
I think Incoginto has played this perfectly in really being limited in dialogue. That said, I don't doubt this guy is a jagoff and not the kind of person I'd want to hang with. But if we were going to kick Jerks out of the league, we'd have some pretty quiet Sundays. This is not teet for tat, Martin initiated this so in my mind, we don't get to do the old "well they're both at faul". No Martin, it appears, took no steps to reasonably address his own situation prior to his leaving the team. He plays along with Incognito so why would Incognito alter his discourse?
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Edited to add: assuming the most recently released texts are the full dialog. I see your point KC, but it seems like the most recently released messages are the full dialog.
Not true. This shows the circumstances for each message. A few of the messages by themselves look terrible. But when you look at the back and fourth, and start to understand the context, what was really happening here becomes much more obvious. Incognito isn't harassing Martin. If you can get by the language and their questionable activities, he seems like a pretty decent friend.
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KCitons
Footballguy
I can agree with some of this Tripper. But, we still don't know who released the information that Martin checked in to a mental hospital. If we are going to believe these texts, then it's obvious that Martin told Richie.No I wouldn't say that's the case...I feel quite comfortable, operating on the presumption of accuracy of the newly released texts, that Incognito is the victim. Based on the fact that Martin initiated and action that smeared Incognito on a national, public level and caused him to be suspended for half of an NFL season for what appears no justifiable reason. Those are 8 games he won't get back. And he stands every chance of being blacklisted and blackballed based on him being nuclear by association.Chuck, I read all of those last night. Tell me what the difference is between the texts that Martin released and the texts the Incognito released? We don't know if either is being completely honest, but we can be certain that both are trying to use it to prove their side of the case.You are dead wrong on pretty much all of that...but you should not be expected to be able to determine things like that from a message board. Where it becomes irresponsible is when you try. You want to know who I am, I am happy to share my linked in info with you. Just PM me, and its yours. You may be surprised. I will give you facebook too. You can see who I am . Nothing to hide.Yeah Chuck, you figured that all out on your own. Maybe I underestimated your intelligence. I would have waited until Thursday, but when someone refers to people as garbage, I feel it necessary to speak up.
Nothing, over the last week has changed anything. At least not in the area of finding the truth. It's just both sides doing what they are paid to do. If all it took to prove innocence or guilt was to have a lawyer release a statement, then we wouldn't need courts. Still no word on other financial hazing, still no word on any physical altercations.
Regardless of the outcome, you've defined yourself pretty well. You probably mirror Incognito. Bordering on bully most of your life. I would venture to guess you played a little football at a junior college, but the grades ultimately got the better of you and you had to drop out. You work in the blue collar or construction field and think that a man's worth is determined by his physical strength. Anyone with a greater intelligence than you, is a threat. And anyone with a weakness is fair game for laugh. You're quick to raise your voice and quicker to raise your hand. Your battles are fought with fists instead of wit. You surround yourself with like minded people, or at least you think they are like you. When in reality, they are afraid to disagree with you for fear of becoming one of your targets.
I'm pretty certain your next post will include one of these
You may also want to read this in its entirety.
Here's all the texts:
http://usatthebiglea.../02/ritojm1.pdf
Forget for a second how much you despise me and what you feel that I stand for. Just read this in its entirety, and then come back and tell me what your real takeaway is on what is going on here. Try for one minute to look at this with any semblance of an open mind. There is pretty much no chance you stand firm in your position if you actually read these. Even the financial hazing is exposed as complete nonsense in those texts. Its a lot, but I promise you its worth it, as long as you really want to see what the truth is. You wont like it at all, but at least you will know.
ETA: I didnt call you garbage. I called the crud that you type on this board garbage. I TRY not to get into name calling, although admittedly I have been dragged into that with you on a few occasions. I am totally fine eliminating that nonsense. The facts at this point kind of say it all. Also, I have never ever used one of those avatars, or whatever it is with the yellow dude rolling around laughing. Not my thing. As well as you think you know me, its crazy that you expected that from me. I dont even know where to find those to use them, and dont care. My preference is to use my stellar vocabulary to get my points across.
Why the sudden activity by both sides this week? If there is zero reason to blame Richie, then teams will be lining up to sign him. No need for a PR person. You only need to read the comments to see the way public opinion swings on these things. When Martin released his stuff, everyone was talking about Incognito being a POS. Now they are saying Richie is the victim. Both times people were wrong. As I already mentioned, defense lawyers release a statements stating their clients are innocent. I guess we should believe everything they say from now on.
As far as your facebook, or linked in, no thanks. I really don't want to have any more contact with you than necessary. The only reason I've spent so much time commenting in this thread is because I felt you've played the part of a bully from the beginning. From day one, you pegged Martin as a wuss. Regardless of the outcome, you were never prepared to listen to what Martin had to say. He was the cause of turmoil with your favorite team, and that was more important than anything else. Yesterday was an excellent example. I mentioned stepping away until Thursday, and instead of following suit, you use it as an opportunity to attack people. Again, a lack of tolerance on your part.
For me, nothing has changed with this case. We still have very few facts. Everyone from Martin and Richie, to the Dolphins and the NFL will have a lot of explaining to do in the days ahead.
To me, as a hopefully accurately self-assessed and self described reasonable person, the question in this to me is this: Is there anything in those pages of exchanges that would have lead me to believe if I were Incognito that the party I was conversing with was uncomfortable with the tone and tenor of the dialogue. Basically, are you "bullying" someone if you don't intend to bully them? Its ok for someone to feel bullied, and Martin's got every right to his feelings but it doesn't mean they are accurate or reasonable. There is nothing that would limit or restrict Incognito in those exchanges.
I think Incoginto has played this perfectly in really being limited in dialogue. That said, I don't doubt this guy is a jagoff and not the kind of person I'd want to hang with. But if we were going to kick Jerks out of the league, we'd have some pretty quiet Sundays. This is not teet for tat, Martin initiated this so in my mind, we don't get to do the old "well they're both at faul". No Martin, it appears, took no steps to reasonably address his own situation prior to his leaving the team. He plays along with Incognito so why would Incognito alter his discourse?
Martin may have wanted to walk away. He recognized that he was having mental problems, so he sought help. He didn't feel comfortable getting that help from the team or the NFL. Someone betrayed his trust by releasing this information. At that point, Martin had no choice but to explain his actions. He may have felt that the team released this info, or since Richie was the only one he told, that Richie released it.
Who knows, had Martin been able to get the help he needed without information leaking, things could have turned out differently.
KCitons
Footballguy
Agreed. This was my point. Martin's texts looked pretty damming also, until all the facts were gathered. I'm just saying proceed with caution. Listen to the people who have nothing to gain when releasing information.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
I'm not wall to wall with this story, so I didn't know about this angle. I think I posted in this thread early on, and I haven't kept up on the matter.
If the issue about the mental hospital is the crux of things, and he somehow told Incognito and Incognito alone, knowing how teams, and workpalces work, that word is simply going to spread. Doesn't make it right, but it is how it is, and I don't care if you are in the Oval Office, a Fortune 500 board room or a UPS loading dock, that kind of talk will simply spread.
I'm quite sympathetic to mental issues and anxiety and that sort of thing and I hope Martin truly gets any help he needs and I hope him and Incognito can both play in the league if they are talented enough and that's their wish. But just because you have a moment of potential psychosis doesn't absolve of you responsibility for your conduct. To take an extreme example, if a guy murders someone because he's schitzophrenic, he's liable for his actions. So to that end, if Martin is having some sort of mental issue that causes him to run out of the lunch room, drive away and go AWOL for a few days, I'm sorry, that is conduct that does warrant some measure of an explanation. There has to be a balance between a very fair right to privacy and simply explaining in some manner your absence to your fellow employees, particularly when it happens in the manner it happened. To just say "Jonathans gone and its a private manner" is OF COURSE going to lead to gossip and speculation. How to move past that, man you are talking about rewiring society.
I do feel like the stigma with mental illness is decreasing but at some point, Martin is in a public forum. He is being handsomely compensated for the burden of having his workplace issue play out before the nation.
As far as I can tell, he had advisors and counsel in the time between his departure and word of this reaching the public. We see matters all the time described as "a family matter", "a personal situation" and Jonathan Martin isn't Peyton Manning. If he takes some time off, outside of a few Miami beat guys, is anyone going to press that hard on where he went.
It seems to me Martin escalated this matter to another level that it didn't need to go to, when he was outside the heat of the moment when he went scorched earth on Incognito and the Fins. As for the leak, given the way gossip spreads, unless it was implicitly told that confidentiality is a must, I can't fault Incognito for the word getting out unless he directly leaked it to the press.
At the end of the day, the evidence doesn't seem to support the accusation at this point. Perhaps more will come but at this point, I'm done faulting Incognito. He used stunningly poor judgment using racial language, even in a place of presumed comfort or acceptance, and that's the real reason he's in limbo professionally, even though there is little evidence of malice in his so doing.
And just because you have a mental episode doesn't mean you abandon all responsibility for your conduct and choices.
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ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Spectacular post. Far too logical and well thought out to be accepted by some of the people on this board though. Any second now, you will get a "Have you ever thought that maybe..." followed by some ludicrous conspiracy theory blaming the Russians for Jonathan Martin's actions.
On another note, I guess it is impossible to rule out the possibility that the texts were not released in full, but using logical thought, it seems like a silly position. Eventually, the investigation will expose the full conversations, so why would Richie's peeps try to buy themselves 2 days of swayed public opinion, only to allow that to be completely washed away by cell phone records? If it were just Richie making the decisions, I could see that, but as has been alluded to, he hired a high priced firm. I cannot see them doing something that hackish, when the truth would follow in 2 days. They released texts dating back to 2012 that absolutely establish a strong relationship, no different that that of any 2 close male friends that you may pick at random.
I think some people on here are just going to refuse to ever see the truth, no matter how hard it hits them in the face. In poker terms, some people here are just pot committed at this point. They will disappear from the boards and come back under a new name before they admit that they were mistaken.
KCitons
Footballguy
You make some excellent points. I never excused Martin for anything. I did (and still do) believe that Martin deserves to be heard. Something, whether it's real or perceived, caused a well educated NFL athlete to snap. Was it self inflicted or brought on by something else?
There are still too many questions to decide who is right and who is wrong.
KCitons
Footballguy
Keep attacking bully.
Why is it so unreal to believe that one party (Martin's) could release partial texts, but the other party (Incognito's) wouldn't do the same thing.
You keep saying I refuse to see the truth. Have you seen the truth? Once I see it, I will accept it.
PS. I will be here forever. No need to change my name.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
I agree with you that there are excellent points in here. I am just shocked that you feel that way, given that when I made the same exact points about mental illness not being an excuse, you informed me of an entire team of medical professionals that you had coffee with on Tuesdays that would support your position that mental illness is in fact an excuse for bad behavior. Is it only an excellent point when it comes from anyone besides your buddy, me? Or are you actually exhibiting the ability to admit that you are not all-knowing, and perhaps you took an incorrect position? I am kind of proud of you. Until I read your next post where you backtrack, and call me a name, and then when I respond you call me a bully.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
My god. Unbelievable. If the truth crawled into your eyeball directly to your receptor and straight to your brain, you would not see it. Not in this case. You are far too programmed in your misguided beliefs to see the truth.
Martin did not just release partial texts. He released one side of the texts showing no context and deliberately painting his best friend and supporter as a racist monster for his own personal gain. How can you not see the difference between that, and releasing 30 pages of texts dating back to 2012 showing both of these guys bantering back and forth in rude, lude, normal 25 year old dude ways? And then of course there is the fact that every other person from the locker room that spoke made statements that basically supported this position from day 1. BLINDERS!
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KCitons
Footballguy
Chuck, you've spent too much time hating Martin to understand anything I've said from the start.
Let me make it clear. I support Martin as a person. You could change his name, change his team, I would still support him. Obviously, he is struggling with some type of mental issue. All too often, society (and people like yourself), want to kick people like Martin when they are down. (hence, your bully moniker) This doesn't help anyone in this situation.
If you haven't noticed, the damage is done. Both players lost half a season of football. Richie may very well play in the NFL again. His reputation will still remain. He is what he is. Martin however, may never recover. He may think that accepting professional help, is a sign of being a wuss. Bad things usually happen when people refuse to get help.
This is problem that is increasing in this country. It just happens to be effecting your favorite team.
The problem with your posts is that they are 50/50. You may say something positive, but it usually comes with an insult attached. In which case, it loses all credibility
Let me make it clear. I support Martin as a person. You could change his name, change his team, I would still support him. Obviously, he is struggling with some type of mental issue. All too often, society (and people like yourself), want to kick people like Martin when they are down. (hence, your bully moniker) This doesn't help anyone in this situation.
If you haven't noticed, the damage is done. Both players lost half a season of football. Richie may very well play in the NFL again. His reputation will still remain. He is what he is. Martin however, may never recover. He may think that accepting professional help, is a sign of being a wuss. Bad things usually happen when people refuse to get help.
This is problem that is increasing in this country. It just happens to be effecting your favorite team.
The problem with your posts is that they are 50/50. You may say something positive, but it usually comes with an insult attached. In which case, it loses all credibility
KCitons
Footballguy
how do you know this is all of the texts?
how do you know what every person in the locker room said? Are you really Ted Wells?
