Dolphin Players bullied Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito SUSPENDED (1 Viewer)

[Bigboy10182000]

@RapSheet: Wells: Dolphins OL coach Jim Turner gave a player a male blowup doll as a Christmas gift. Told the investigators he didnt remember doing it

@AbramsonPBP: Martin says he was bullied in middle & high school. Interesting considering his size & athletic stature & he went to wealthy private schools

@ArmandoSalguero: The Ted Wells report makes no secret of idea Jon Martin is dealing with "a history of mental health issues."

 

[Bigboy10182000]

And he will get a pretty penny from Miami for this

 

[KellysHeroes]

Say goodbye to the NFL incognito. ####### psycho. Should've know when he went on his twitter rampage that he was about to be found out.

i think Richie has a better shot, hes a proven vet but it would take a team with great leadership to control him. Martin is young but seemed to be failing.

 

[Workhorse]

Say goodbye to the NFL incognito. ####### psycho. Should've know when he went on his twitter rampage that he was about to be found out.

i think Richie has a better shot, hes a proven vet but it would take a team with great leadership to control him. Martin is young but seemed to be failing.

Did you read the report? I'd be SHOCKED if Incognito plays again. Goodell is going to drop the hammer on these #######s.

 

[KCitons]

 

[KellysHeroes]

The Marines do not allow this type of behavior. Seems silly (and downright asinine) to argue it's okay in the NFL because it toughens them up, it's a violent sport, or whatever other excuse gets bandied about. Pretty sure Marines are plenty tough and experience actual violent situations.

gotten better over the yrs

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-369924/Probe-Marines-bullying-video.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txdTlBlHd_8

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?50398-Air-Force-WORST-for-Bullying

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Reading the report this am... Incognito, Pouncey and Jerry are just scumbags, plan and simple. Check out the crap they spewed to one of the assistant trainers:

We found that the Assistant Trainer, who was born in Japan, was the target of frequent and persistent harassment, including insults relating to his race and
national origin. Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey admitted that they directed racially
derogatory words toward him, including “***” and “********.” At times, according to
Martin, they referred to the Assistant Trainer as a “dirty communist” or a “North
Korean,” made demands such as “give me some water you ####### *****,” spoke to him
in a phony, mocking Asian accent, including asking for “rubby rubby sucky sucky,” and
called his mother a “rub and tug masseuse.” Martin and others informed us that
Incognito and Jerry taunted the Assistant Trainer with jokes about having sex with his
girlfriend. Incognito admitted that these types of comments were made to the Assistant
Trainer.
On December 7, 2012, the anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl
Harbor, Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey donned traditional Japanese headbands that
featured a rising sun emblem (which the Assistant Trainer had given them) and jokingly
threatened to harm the Assistant Trainer physically in retaliation for the Pearl Harbor
attack. According to Martin, the Assistant Trainer confided in him that he was upset
about the Pearl Harbor comments, finding them derogatory toward his heritage.

They did not use the preferred nomenclature.

 

[shadyridr]

People call me a to my face. Happened 2 days ago. And I laughed it off. Because I am too nice of a person. They say terrible things about my sister. I don't do anything. I suppose it's white private school conditioning, turning the other cheek

Isnt this kind of derogatory too?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Plus, Incognito directing Pouncey to destroy the "fine book", PROVES that the intent was to harass Martin and that he knew it was wrong. Incognito will never play another down in the NFL.

That's gonna sting,

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Can't wait from the twisting and backtracking the fake toughguy crew gives. It's gonna be great.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I have read the first 21 pages...plan to read the rest when I can.

Those guys (Pouncey, Richie, Jerry) definitely do come off as 3 of the biggest D-Bags on the planet. Not people I would want to hang out with on a regular basis. I would not be OK with people saying things like that about my sister or my mother. In fact, people have made jokes like that to me in the past, and I have calmly but sternly informed them that it was not acceptable. I am guilty of such behavior myself, when I teased my friend who had married a woman 10 years older than him about having to leave early to catch the "early bird". He calmly informed me that it was not OK, and it never happened again. We remain close friends a decade later - maybe even closer than we were before.

Point is, that while I agree that what I have read outlines behavior that is not acceptable in any environment, some of the burden must fall on the "victim" (not being sarcastic anymore) to express his feelings. In the absence of it, the D-Bags cannot be expected to read his mind and understand that it is unacceptable. These guys are not brought up the same way as people from Stanford. Acceptable behavior has different definitions for different people. Even in my white collar world, similar behavior occurs between friends. How it is handled is where the differences lie.

Goes back to my original position that some people are too soft for the NFL culture. A stronger person would either be able to blow it off as schoolboy idiot taunting, or stand up for himself (not physically) and tell the D-Bags that it is not OK. So far, I have not seen anything to indicate that this happened. Even as far back as middle school. Granted, I am only on page 21.

Dont get me wrong here...I am not saying that the harassment is OK. That will be the interpretation from some in here, but it is not the message.

 

[squistion]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

 

[JaxBill]

So, the Dolphins line should have some openings, huh? There's no way Martin can go back there, can he? Incognito done. John Jerry is UFA and possibly facing a suspension. Pouncey probably facing a suspension. OL coach could have his career flushed down the tubes.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@ArmandoSalguero: Jon Martin claimed John Jerry told him he wanted to have sex with his sister and mom at the same time.

@MattBowen41: #NFL locker rooms don't mesh with the normal workplace. They are unique. But #Dolphins situation goes beyond the norm. Meathead stuff.

@AlbertBreer: It's clear that Incognito, Pouncey, Jerry were engaging in what they considered normal behavior. And Martin didn't agree, but didn't say it.

@ArmandoSalguero: Report says John Jerry and Mike Pouncey taunted Jonathan Martin for not being "black enough."

@HubbuchNYP: No wonder nobody wanted the Dolphins' GM job. They make the Browns look like a model organization.

@ArmandoSalguero: Martin said Incognito called him "my #####."

@ProFootballTalk: Per the report, Incognito had a loud, belligerent side to his personality known as the "Tornado." Yes, the "Tornado."

@ArmandoSalguero: Report says Jerry and Pouncey denied making or hearing harassing comments about Martin or his family.

@TomPelissero: The report calls Incognito "the main instigator" and says Jerry and Pouncey "tended to follow Incognito's lead."

@ArmandoSalguero: Ted Wells says he does not find the denials from Pouncey and Jerry to be credible.

@RapSheet: Text from OL coach Jim Turner to Martin: (Richie) has been beat up for 4 days. Put an end to this. You are a grown man. Do the right thing

@ArmandoSalguero: Report says Martin occasionally asked teammates to stop insults but usually did not challenge language he found hurtful.

@TomPelissero: The report cites a consulting psychologist, William H. Berman, who said Martin going along with it was consistent with bullying victims.

@ArmandoSalguero: Report paints Joe Philbin as unaware, completely ignorant of what was going on within his team.

@RapSheet: Wow RT @AndrewSiciliano: Wells report has copy of Dolphins OL "fine book". Mike Pouncey was fined $100 dollars for "subpeona [sic] by FBI."

@RapSheet: A Dolphins assistant trainer is of Japanese descent. Incognito, Pouncey & Jerry called his mother a rub and tug masseuse, per the report

@RapSheet: On 12/7, Pearl Harbor anniv., Incognito, Pouncey & Jerry donned headbands that featured a rising sun emblem. Joked retaliation vs trainer

@AlbertBreer: Part of Joe Philbin's philosophical pitch to players: "The locker room is the most important room in the building - Respect one another."

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

I believe it was summarized by:

Richie is a D-bag

Martin is a push over with mental issues

The "knuckle draggers" nailed that one from what I've read....

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Turner is donezo. He'll get a worse punishment than that ####ty D Coordinator on the Saints for Bountygate.

And this ####?

"Sometimes, a fine would be levied on a lineman for acting like a “Judas,”

meaning a traitor or “snitch.” For example, if Coach Turner, while watching game
footage, criticized a lineman for missing an assignment, and that player pointed out that
his teammate was actually at fault, that player might be labeled a “Judas,” which could
result in a fine. Multiple offensive linemen were familiar with the “Judas” concept and
told us that it had been referenced in discussions with Coach Turner. When we
interviewed Turner, however, he denied knowing what the term “Judas” meant in the
context of the Dolphins offensive line. He said, “I’ve never heard ‘Judas fine’ in my
room,” and denied hearing any other references to “Judas” in the offensive line room. He
also denied lecturing players on the meaning of the term. The evidence shows, however,
122
that Turner was aware of the “Judas” concept, and that he discussed its meaning with a
number of linemen, even explaining how the biblical Judas had betrayed Jesus Christ and
so became a “snitch.” Further, Coach Mosley informed us that it had been Turner who
introduced the idea of the “Judas fine” to the offensive linemen."


Turner is OK with blaming a guy that didn't #### up and letting the guy that did go? Yeah, that's called incompetent coaching. No wonder the Dolphins OL sucked.

 

[KCitons]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

I believe it was summarized by:

Richie is a D-bag

Martin is a push over with mental issues

The "knuckle draggers" nailed that one from what I've read....

Correct.

Question that has to still be answered, what would Martin's mental state and career be like had he been drafted by another team?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

Not ever, but that's fine with me.

 

[squistion]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

I believe it was summarized by:

Richie is a D-bag

Martin is a push over with mental issues

The "knuckle draggers" nailed that one from what I've read....

Yes indeed those were the only points in this thread made by the knuckle draggers.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

No wonder Jake Long wanted to get the hell out of there.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

I believe it was summarized by:

Richie is a D-bag

Martin is a push over with mental issues

The "knuckle draggers" nailed that one from what I've read....

Yes indeed those were the only points in this thread made by the knuckle draggers.

What does summarize mean to you?

 

[RBM]

Love to know who Player A is? And sounds like Martin joined in on the taunting of him.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

I believe it was summarized by:

Richie is a D-bag

Martin is a push over with mental issues

The "knuckle draggers" nailed that one from what I've read....

Correct.

Question that has to still be answered, what would Martin's mental state and career be like had he been drafted by another team?

Interesting. I guess that depends on who you ask. The last tweet I saw was from Breer and he said this:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

I believe it was summarized by:

Richie is a D-bag

Martin is a push over with mental issues

The "knuckle draggers" nailed that one from what I've read....

Yes indeed those were the only points in this thread made by the knuckle draggers.

I'll play...What other points were made that are in dispute?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Love to know who Player A is? And sounds like Martin joined in on the taunting of him.

I assume it was Hartline, his name seemed to be tossed around a good bit

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Love to know who Player A is? And sounds like Martin joined in on the taunting of him.

I assume it was Hartline, his name seemed to be tossed around a good bit

I am GUESSING Nate Garner, who was the object of taunting in the lunchroom the week prior to Martin...by players including Martin.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Pages 79-81, more reasons to keep Turner and Incognito out of the NFL.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

"At least three teams (the Colts, the Patriots and the
Ravens) reportedly passed on Incognito during the draft because of character concerns."

to the well-run franchises.

 

[KCitons]

Interesting. I guess that depends on who you ask. The last tweet I saw was from Breer and he said this:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

I saw that tweet too. Martin himself said that he has been the target of bullies for most of his life. So, to put total blame on the Dolphins organization is wrong. But, where do you rank the Dolphin's locker room on the scale of best to worst? If it's determined to be the worst, an argument could be made that the draft forces a player to go to a team that is not in their best interest.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Interesting. I guess that depends on who you ask. The last tweet I saw was from Breer and he said this:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

I saw that tweet too. Martin himself said that he has been the target of bullies for most of his life. So, to put total blame on the Dolphins organization is wrong. But, where do you rank the Dolphin's locker room on the scale of best to worst? If it's determined to be the worst, an argument could be made that the draft forces a player to go to a team that is not in their best interest.

You have to think it's one of the worst IMO. Obviously it's taken with a grain of salt because I have never been in one.

 

[ratbast]

Incognito's tweets this past week shows how he is out of control and can not see the big picture. This is not his first go around with these type of situations either. No NFL team needs this, no business needs this. Risk management practices will be more prevalent as a result of this. Thank God Martin didn't take his life. The forthcoming guidelines by the NFL will help contain these issues and will be good for the Incognito's, Martin's, the teams and the league as they will recognize issues before they get out of hand. Progress.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I skimmed the report in full. I couldn't find a section about that anonymous player that said he was being financially hazed to being broke. Has anyone found that? That actually was the biggest issue for me (#2 was wishing a criminally insane player - Incognito to be removed from the NFL).

 

[RBM]

Love to know who Player A is? And sounds like Martin joined in on the taunting of him.

I assume it was Hartline, his name seemed to be tossed around a good bit

It's not Hartline. Says its a lineman

 

[KCitons]

Interesting. I guess that depends on who you ask. The last tweet I saw was from Breer and he said this:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

I saw that tweet too. Martin himself said that he has been the target of bullies for most of his life. So, to put total blame on the Dolphins organization is wrong. But, where do you rank the Dolphin's locker room on the scale of best to worst? If it's determined to be the worst, an argument could be made that the draft forces a player to go to a team that is not in their best interest.

You have to think it's one of the worst IMO. Obviously it's taken with a grain of salt because I have never been in one.

Yeah, as it's been mentioned already. No winners in this situation. I don't see Martin ever being successful in the NFL, regardless of team. Defenders would have a field day with him.

He needs to find something else in life to better utilize his skill set.

 

[Todem]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

I believe it was summarized by:

Richie is a D-bag

Martin is a push over with mental issues

The "knuckle draggers" nailed that one from what I've read....

Correct.

Question that has to still be answered, what would Martin's mental state and career be like had he been drafted by another team?

Probably a lot better.

I am glad the report is finally out. Truly a massive black eye on the Dolphins orgainization. Very apparent and consistent with what I felt was going on with a few exceptions. Incognito is a complete bonehead and has no business being in a position of leadership on any team...if playing in the NFL at all anymore. Jonathan Martin obviously has some deep.....deep issues with being depressed, socially in-awkward and lacking confidence. He could not handle the taunting and metal abuse.

Now it begs to wonder if he would have been on a team and not subjected to the extreme harrasment....would he have been more successful? I think he still is a sub par football player in the NFL. But surely his mental state would have been better and that would have led to probably better performance on the field in the big picture.

It's a real shame what happened. And the report really paints a clear picture of what happened.

Martin was a victim.

Case closed. My speculation was wrong in regards to the severity of the taunts and bullying. And I based it on my own experience in high school and college baseball.

This was some brutal treatment.......you should not have to be subjected to this on a daily basis. A metally weak person would crumble. And a person who is head strong and confident......would not deal with this either. It came down to situation of how are you going to handle this? I always felt martin should have dealt with it internally first....I mean really pursue that and keep it in house.

He did not.

Because of that....a lot of players would never trust him. And trust is the cornerstone to being a teammate. Even though it was wrong, and now after reading a lot of this report.....I am disgusted with my favorite NFL team to allow this to go on for so long.....Martin's career is on thin ice as well.

In any case.....no question now. Martin was a victim here and Incognito the ring leader.

Let's move on now......let's start talking about footbal again everyone.

 

[Todem]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

I believe it was summarized by:

Richie is a D-bag

Martin is a push over with mental issues

The "knuckle draggers" nailed that one from what I've read....

Correct.

Question that has to still be answered, what would Martin's mental state and career be like had he been drafted by another team?

Interesting. I guess that depends on who you ask. The last tweet I saw was from Breer and he said this:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

That was a big bone of contention by me as well. It did not surprise me at all. I had been around this myself....took some of it....and then after proving myself on the field dealt some too to the Freshman and what not.

It's part of sports.

But we were never this vulgar....it was in good fun. Obviously this went far deeper. Martin has some real issues he needs to deal with. I don't think he is a stable person and he should really get some help.

Incognito is what we thought he has always been. A bonehead.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

I believe it was summarized by:

Richie is a D-bag

Martin is a push over with mental issues

The "knuckle draggers" nailed that one from what I've read....

Correct.

Question that has to still be answered, what would Martin's mental state and career be like had he been drafted by another team?

Probably a lot better.

I am glad the report is finally out. Truly a massive black eye on the Dolphins orgainization. Very apparent and consistent with what I felt was going on with a few exceptions. Incognito is a complete bonehead and has no business being in a position of leadership on any team...if playing in theNFL at all anymore. Jonathan Martin obviously has some deep.....deep issues with being depressed, socially in awkard and lacking confidence. He could not handle the taunting and metal abuse.

Now it begs to wonder if he would have been on a team and not subjected to the extreme harrasment....would he have been more successful? I think he still is a sub par football player in the NFL. But surely his mental state would have been better and that would have led to probably better performance on the field in the big picture.

It's a real shame what happened. And the reprot really paints a clear picture of what happened.

Martin was a victim.

Case closed. My specualtion was wrong in regards to the severity of the taunts and bullying. And I based it on my own experience in high school baseball.

This was some brutal treatment.......you should not have to be subjected to this on a daily basis. A metally weak person would crumble. And a person who is head strong and confident......would not deal with this either. It came down to situation of how are you going to handle this? I always felt martin should have dealt with it internally first....I mean really pursue that and keep it in house.

He did not.

Because of that....a lot of players would never trust him. And trust is the cornerstone to being a teammate. Even though it was wrong, and now after reading a lot of this report.....I am disgusted with my favorite NFL team to allow this to go on for so long.....Martin's career is on thin ice as well.

In any case.....no question now. Martin was a victim here and Incognito the ring leader.

Let's move on now......let's start talking about footbal again everyone.

I forgive you. Seriously, I do.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Love to know who Player A is? And sounds like Martin joined in on the taunting of him.

I assume it was Hartline, his name seemed to be tossed around a good bit

It's not Hartline. Says its a lineman

Likely a player that cooperated with the condition that his identity remain hidden. It's not Nate Garner either.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Incognito's tweets this past week shows how he is out of control and can not see the big picture. This is not his first go around with these type of situations either. No NFL team needs this, no business needs this. Risk management practices will be more prevalent as a result of this. Thank God Martin didn't take his life. The forthcoming guidelines by the NFL will help contain these issues and will be good for the Incognito's, Martin's, the teams and the league as they will recognize issues before they get out of hand. Progress.

You can even sprinkle delusional in there as well. I have no clue why he was wanting this to come out as bad as he did. I can only think that he has zero clue on how to properly behave under any circumstances.

 

[RBM]

Pages 79-81, more reasons to keep Turner and Incognito out of the NFL.

What about Jerry, Pouncey and Martin? They were all in on it as well.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I may be ahead of the curve with this question but at what point do we question the parenting Martin had? He seems to be reaching out to his parents for a loooong time and what has come of it? As a parent, no matter how old or big my sons are, I cant really imagine not helping them when he's reaching out like he was. I wrongfully questioned Martin's "manhood" here without knowing all of the stuff he was going through for how long but his parents HAD to see and hear more than what's just in this report.

 

[KCitons]

Nobody was really all that right or wrong. Everyone was just expressing their opinions until we had the facts.

Hopefully Martin gets the help he needs. As much as I hate Incognito, I worry about that guy too. You have to think he's had a lot of "force" counseling in the past. He really doesn't understand how to treat other people. Is removing him from the NFL, a place where he gets to smash people legally, the best solution for him?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

In addition, also on November 1, hours after Incognito wrote, “I’m here
for you my dude” to Martin, Incognito exchanged the following text messages with
Pouncey:

Incognito: #### Jmart That ###### is never [allowed] back

Pouncey: Bro I said the same thing I can’t even look at him the
same he’s a #####

Incognito: My agent just asked if we held mandatory strip club
meetings Jmart is ####### ratting on everyone

Pouncey: Lol wow are you serious he is a #### boy

Pouncey: He’s not welcome back bro I can’t be around that
####### guy

Incognito: #### that guy if Ur not with s Ur against us

Pouncey: No question bro he’s a coward for snitching

Incognito: Snitches get stitches Blood in blood out ####### guy

Pouncey: He’s dead to me


Over the next couple of days, Incognito sent the following text messages
to Martin:

Incognito: I need you buddy I’m getting killed in the media.

Incognito: Bro can we talk? The dolphins are talking about
releasing me

 

[T J]

Richie Incognito ‏@68INCOGNITO 18m

Jon Martin---you started all of this

Strange sense if humor if you find that funny. It appears to the rest of the sane portion of the world to be 100% true.

First thing out of the mouth of a kid in trouble: "He started it!" while pointing at someone else.

First thing a kid does when he sucks at playing a sport is picks up his ball and runs home to his mommy and blames other kids.

And threatens to kill himself

According to Incognito and his dad. They're certainly solid, reliable people.

Reminds me of Jose Canseco on the whole steroid thing. Guess what? He was spot on and telling the truth. Just that others didn't want it to come out so they disparaged him.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Nobody was really all that right or wrong. Everyone was just expressing their opinions until we had the facts.

Hopefully Martin gets the help he needs. As much as I hate Incognito, I worry about that guy too. You have to think he's had a lot of "force" counseling in the past. He really doesn't understand how to treat other people. Is removing him from the NFL, a place where he gets to smash people legally, the best solution for him?

Fast forward 5 years, and Incognito is in prison. Let's just hope that he doesn't kill or permanently injure someone on the way there. That's where he belongs, for the good of society.

 

[RBM]

Pete Prisco

@PriscoCBS

Dive deep enough into any NFL locker room and you will find a lot of this same stuff went on. Believe it.

 

[dutch]

Pete Prisco

@PriscoCBS

Dive deep enough into any NFL locker room and you will find a lot of this same stuff went on. Believe it.

And that's where the good in this incident comes in. Hopefully lockeroom culture gets an upgrade and meatheads are not left in charge anymore.

 

[Kalamazoo]

Interesting. I guess that depends on who you ask. The last tweet I saw was from Breer and he said this:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

I saw that tweet too. Martin himself said that he has been the target of bullies for most of his life. So, to put total blame on the Dolphins organization is wrong. But, where do you rank the Dolphin's locker room on the scale of best to worst? If it's determined to be the worst, an argument could be made that the draft forces a player to go to a team that is not in their best interest.

Yup.

 

[KCitons]

Pete Prisco

@PriscoCBS

Dive deep enough into any NFL locker room and you will find a lot of this same stuff went on. Believe it.

Whew. OK, false alarm. Disregard the Wells report.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

"At least three teams (the Colts, the Patriots and the

Ravens) reportedly passed on Incognito during the draft because of character concerns."

to the well-run franchises.

Ummh, the Patriots drafted Aaron Hernandez despite other teams passing on him due to character concerns.

And one of the all-time greatest Ravens was an accessory to murder.

Its the NFL. Not IBM.