Dolphin Players bullied Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito SUSPENDED (1 Viewer)

[rdrouyn]

Who would you go to if you were in the place of Jonathan Martin? Your oline coach which put Incognito in the position of leadership. Your head coach who is completely clueless to whats going on with his own team? He couldve handled it better, sure, but don't make it seem like it was an easy decision to make given the disfunction of the franchise.

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

I believe it was summarized by:

Richie is a D-bag

Martin is a push over with mental issues

The "knuckle draggers" nailed that one from what I've read....

Correct. Question that has to still be answered, what would Martin's mental state and career be like had he been drafted by another team?

Probably a lot better.I am glad the report is finally out. Truly a massive black eye on the Dolphins orgainization. Very apparent and consistent with what I felt was going on with a few exceptions. Incognito is a complete bonehead and has no business being in a position of leadership on any team...if playing in the NFL at all anymore. Jonathan Martin obviously has some deep.....deep issues with being depressed, socially in-awkward and lacking confidence. He could not handle the taunting and metal abuse.

Now it begs to wonder if he would have been on a team and not subjected to the extreme harrasment....would he have been more successful? I think he still is a sub par football player in the NFL. But surely his mental state would have been better and that would have led to probably better performance on the field in the big picture.

It's a real shame what happened. And the report really paints a clear picture of what happened.

Martin was a victim.

Case closed. My speculation was wrong in regards to the severity of the taunts and bullying. And I based it on my own experience in high school and college baseball.

This was some brutal treatment.......you should not have to be subjected to this on a daily basis. A metally weak person would crumble. And a person who is head strong and confident......would not deal with this either. It came down to situation of how are you going to handle this? I always felt martin should have dealt with it internally first....I mean really pursue that and keep it in house.

He did not.

Because of that....a lot of players would never trust him. And trust is the cornerstone to being a teammate. Even though it was wrong, and now after reading a lot of this report.....I am disgusted with my favorite NFL team to allow this to go on for so long.....Martin's career is on thin ice as well.

In any case.....no question now. Martin was a victim here and Incognito the ring leader.

Let's move on now......let's start talking about footbal again everyone.

 

[Kalamazoo]

I may be ahead of the curve with this question but at what point do we question the parenting Martin had? He seems to be reaching out to his parents for a loooong time and what has come of it? As a parent, no matter how old or big my sons are, I cant really imagine not helping them when he's reaching out like he was. I wrongfully questioned Martin's "manhood" here without knowing all of the stuff he was going through for how long but his parents HAD to see and hear more than what's just in this report.

It sounds like they did respond and try to help as much as they could. I was actually impressed with what I saw from them and it does appear that he has a great family. Plenty of depressed people have family members who are not at all supportive. They tried to get him psychiatric help and they apparently talked directly with several members of the organization. At a certain point they can't do anything more and they can't force him to get treatment. It is often not easy for the ill person to get help. Not only can they have very little energy to do anything, but they are often ashamed of their condition (as Martin was) or feel like they should be able to handle it themselves.

What is disturbing, however, is that the first psychiatrist told him that he couldn't help. I hope he gave Martin some kind of referral that Martin didn't use. What is far more disturbing is that the Dolphins sent him to an 85(?) year old doctor who clearly wasn't taking things seriously.

 

[Kalamazoo]

Who would you go to if you were in the place of Jonathan Martin? Your oline coach which put Incognito in the position of leadership. Your head coach who is completely clueless to whats going on with his own team? He couldve handled it better, sure, but don't make it seem like it was an easy decision to make given the disfunction of the franchise.

Particularly when this is their attitude:

Incognito: F–k Jmart That f—t is never back

Pouncey: Bro I said the same thing I can’t even look at him the same he’s a #####

Incognito: My agent just said if we held mandatory strip club meetings Jmart is f–king ratting on everyone

Pouncey: Lol wow are you serious he is a f–k boy

Pouncey: He’s not welcome back bro I can’t be around that f–king guy

Incognito: F–k that guy if Ur not with s Ur against us

Pouncey: No question bro he’s a coward for snitching

Incognito: Snitches get stiches Blood in blood out F–king guy

Pouncey: He’s dead to me

I'm not sure he could have done anything... I doubt complaining to Philbin would have helped in the long run; I'd guess that it would have led him to being ostracized, which would not have helped anything (his health, the line's performance). Sucky situation all around.

 

[rdrouyn]

So when to the knuckledraggpers get an apology for being right since this all started?

Not today.

I believe it was summarized by:

Richie is a D-bag

Martin is a push over with mental issues

The "knuckle draggers" nailed that one from what I've read....

Correct. Question that has to still be answered, what would Martin's mental state and career be like had he been drafted by another team?

Interesting. I guess that depends on who you ask. The last tweet I saw was from Breer and he said this:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

That was a big bone of contention by me as well. It did not surprise me at all. I had been around this myself....took some of it....and then after proving myself on the field dealt some too to the Freshman and what not.It's part of sports.

But we were never this vulgar....it was in good fun. Obviously this went far deeper. Martin has some real issues he needs to deal with. I don't think he is a stable person and he should really get some help.

Incognito is what we thought he has always been. A bonehead.

I think this report makes me question more Incognito's sanity than anyone else's. He thought he would be cleared by this report? Jeez.

 

[fatness]

Point is, that while I agree that what I have read outlines behavior that is not acceptable in any environment, some of the burden must fall on the "victim" (not being sarcastic anymore) to express his feelings. In the absence of it, the D-Bags cannot be expected to read his mind and understand that it is unacceptable. These guys are not brought up the same way as people from Stanford. Acceptable behavior has different definitions for different people. Even in my white collar world, similar behavior occurs between friends. How it is handled is where the differences lie.Goes back to my original position that some people are too soft for the NFL culture.

Incognito, Pouncey, and and Jerry are not NFL culture. They are outliers ---bullies who got away with this on a team with weak locker room leadership, weak coaching leadership, and weak front office leadership.

 

[fatness]

Incognito's tweets this past week shows how he is out of control and can not see the big picture. This is not his first go around with these type of situations either. No NFL team needs this, no business needs this. Risk management practices will be more prevalent as a result of this. Thank God Martin didn't take his life. The forthcoming guidelines by the NFL will help contain these issues and will be good for the Incognito's, Martin's, the teams and the league as they will recognize issues before they get out of hand. Progress.

You can even sprinkle delusional in there as well. I have no clue why he was wanting this to come out as bad as he did. I can only think that he has zero clue on how to properly behave under any circumstances.

I think he knew the report was going to expose what he did, and he got angry and decided to start swinging first.

 

[fatness]

Incognito was aware of how the persistent taunting and harassment was affecting Martin, the report said, citing entries in a book of fines the offensive linemen kept between themselves. In the hours after Martin left the team, Incognito recorded a $200 fine against himself for “breaking Jmart.”

A week later, he texted Pouncey and Nate Garner saying: “They’re going to suspend me Please destroy the fine book first thing in the morning.”

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-dolphins-report-harassment-20140214,0,7365379.story

 

[fatness]

Philbin and members of the team’s front office were unaware of the mistreatment, the report concluded.“We are convinced that had Coach Philbin learned of the underlying misconduct, he would have intervened promptly to ensure that Martin and others were treated with dignity,” the report said.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Philbin and members of the team’s front office were unaware of the mistreatment, the report concluded.“We are convinced that had Coach Philbin learned of the underlying misconduct, he would have intervened promptly to ensure that Martin and others were treated with dignity,” the report said.

Do you believe this? I'm not sure, He seems pretty clueless though, so it could definitely get past him. Whether he's clueless or just wanted deniability, he's not HC material.

 

[fatness]

Philbin and members of the team’s front office were unaware of the mistreatment, the report concluded.“We are convinced that had Coach Philbin learned of the underlying misconduct, he would have intervened promptly to ensure that Martin and others were treated with dignity,” the report said.

Do you believe this? I'm not sure, He seems pretty clueless though, so it could definitely get past him. Whether he's clueless or just wanted deniability, he's not HC material.

I don't know if I believe it. It's hard to imagine that amount of harassment and intimidation of players and coaches going on without a coach knowing. That being said, if you've followed the Dolphins team topic here it's pretty clear the whole organization has been disorganized and disjointed so I guess Philbin could have been that out of it.

My point in posting it is to show why Philbin's still there. I think the owner knew long ago that nothing the investigation turned up pointed to Philbin.

 

[FBG Moderator]

The insults and commentary about other posters stops now.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Point is, that while I agree that what I have read outlines behavior that is not acceptable in any environment, some of the burden must fall on the "victim" (not being sarcastic anymore) to express his feelings. In the absence of it, the D-Bags cannot be expected to read his mind and understand that it is unacceptable. These guys are not brought up the same way as people from Stanford. Acceptable behavior has different definitions for different people. Even in my white collar world, similar behavior occurs between friends. How it is handled is where the differences lie.Goes back to my original position that some people are too soft for the NFL culture.

Incognito, Pouncey, and and Jerry are not NFL culture. They are outliers ---bullies who got away with this on a team with weak locker room leadership, weak coaching leadership, and weak front office leadership.

And you know this how? Plenty of other NFL insiders are saying the opposite...and they are credible, where you are...well...not.

I am not saying the culture of the NFL is fine and not need of change, I am just saying it is what it is right now, and he was too soft to handle it. Not saying I would have been tough enough to handle it better, so everyone can refrain from the keyboard tough guy schtick...I am not talking about me - I am not an NFL player - I am talking about him.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I thought proninja had two of the posts of the thread in one exchange. In the wake of the Glazer Incognito interview, he said (paraphrasing) he was either totally wronged or a complete sociopath, it wasn't possible to have any middle ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWU7PUJTWhY

I said that there was a middle ground. Good Richie was wronged, bad Richie a sociopath. Maybe he had DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder - previously known as MPD, or Multiple Personality Disorder). Proninja said he wasn't going to go there, but while we were on the subject, he offered the below diagnosis that checked off more boxes, and noted the shoe fits. I agree.

ASPD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

* Richie caught on camera bonding with teammates with some harmless roughhousing in this rare Hard Knocks out take.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3DOHvR1-yw

 

[Todem]

The more I read this report the more disgusted I become with these guys we have on our team. Just pure trash.

Now.......let's be real for a moment. Most other players would have nipped that in the butt. No doubt in my mind they would have laid out Incognito, Jerry and Pouncy...whether that would be in a practice scrum, in the locker room...whatever.

The fact that Martin laughed along, and just took it......he was easy to be a whipping boy. It's just like freaking school. When a bully looks for fresh meat he will keep pounding on the kid that won't fight back.

The thing that was hard to digest is....here is a guy who has played football his entire life and was able to get through a lot of teasing and bullying. I mean the guy talks about being bullied his entire life. He will not survive in the NFL where if you don't take a stand for yourself your going to have to live with the fact that at least 50% of the league (just guessing on my part) is full of animals like Incognito, Jerry and Pouncy who are pure garbage. No brain boneheaded ghetto trash.

Now I know a lot of this goes on in the league......but the degree and level of the mental abuse I read (SMH).....if someone talked to me about my mother and sister like that.....whether I can hurt them or not....I am going to at least try to hurt them back and tell them to back the ***k off.

If Martin had that inner strength to do this and draw a line I don't think we ever hear about this. But he didn't. He bascially wanted to fit in and went along...for better or for worse. He could not take a stand and the only way he could was to finally crack and do what he did.

I wish him luck.....I really do. Because even if he catches on with a new team....or even sticks with Miami....he really is not a good NFL tackle. But that is not the point.

Steven Ross has a huge....I mean huge mess to clean up here. Incredible what has happened to this franchise the moment Shula left. Just incredible.

 

[RBM]

Nobody posting here thinks the NFL locker room culture is really none of our business? Who are any of us to say it needs changed?

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Nobody posting here thinks the NFL locker room culture is really none of our business? Who are any of us to say it needs changed?

It has recently become our business, and yes, it looks like it does need to change.

 

[KCitons]

Nobody posting here thinks the NFL locker room culture is really none of our business? Who are any of us to say it needs changed?

 

[fatness]

After learning about the April 6 voicemail, Coach Philbin and the Executive Vice President of Football Administration had a meeting with Incognito, during which Incognito admitted he had left the message in question and that he had made other vulgar or racially charged statements to Martin. Reportedly, Incognito also said that profane language was common in the locker room and that admonishments from Coach Philbin “would not change the way we’re going to speak to one another.”

 

[Todem]

Nobody posting here thinks the NFL locker room culture is really none of our business? Who are any of us to say it needs changed?

This may be a really bad isolated incident......we all know hazing and busting each others balls goes on in all lockers rooms across all sports across all levels across the entire nation.

But the fact we have been exposed to this particular incident and got an inside look into personal exchanges among so called friends.....it is a little disgusting how bad it really was. I mean some of the things and exchanges said here in this case are just flat out incorigible.

Never heard this kind of insanity playing baseball. Never.

Football is it's own sub culture indeed. Truly insane.

 

[fatness]

Looks like Richie wants to (pay his lawyer to) to fight.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24443288/richie-incognito-lawyer-ted-wells-report-replete-with-errors

Mark Schamel, who represents Incognito, ripped Wells' report and also called into question Jonathan Martin's "mental health" and "drug use."

"Mr. Wells' NFL report is replete with errors. The facts do not support a conclusion that Jonathan Martin's mental health, drug use, or on field performance issues were related to the treatment by his teammates," Schamel said in a statement. "It is disappointing that Mr. Wells would have gotten it so wrong, but not surprising. The truth, as reported by the Dolphins players and as shown by the evidence, is that Jonathan Martin was never bullied by Richie Incognito or any member of the Dolphins Offensive line.

That won't increase the number of other teams interested in signing him. Neither will telling Philbin to blow off.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Go ahead and ignore the multiple reports saying while it was a bad situation in Miami, it was nothing too out of the ordinary for the league. So obnoxiously arrogant.

Go ahead and ignore the countless player reports that stuff like this would never fly in their team's locker room. And those player reports were before the worst details came out.

I have a slight problem with the bolded. When I see players make these statements I understand what they mean but I don't know that they're thinking about it, how this situation came to be. If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing, they most certainly would have it fly in their locker room. Its easy for someone to say this when that wasnt the case. Richie and company didnt come in and overnight take a respected locker room and change it to what we hear about today. This was how it was when Martin (and countless others) arrived. A newbie isnt changing that.

 

[fatness]

Go ahead and ignore the multiple reports saying while it was a bad situation in Miami, it was nothing too out of the ordinary for the league. So obnoxiously arrogant.

Go ahead and ignore the countless player reports that stuff like this would never fly in their team's locker room. And those player reports were before the worst details came out.

I have a slight problem with the bolded. When I see players make these statements I understand what they mean but I don't know that they're thinking about it, how this situation came to be. If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing, they most certainly would have it fly in their locker room. Its easy for someone to say this when that wasnt the case. Richie and company didnt come in and overnight take a respected locker room and change it to what we hear about today. This was how it was when Martin (and countless others) arrived. A newbie isnt changing that.

I don't see the conflict. Players on other teams said it wouldn't fly in their locker rooms. It did "fly" in the Dolphins locker room for the first 2 years of Martin's career. By saying "If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing," you're saying "if player X was drafted into the Dolphins locker room the last 2 years." I don't take issue with that. I take issue with behavior this bad being prevalent on other teams.

 

[KellysHeroes]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-dolphins-39-line-coach-161000378--nfl.html

Report: Dolphins' line coach gave male blow-up doll to lineman alleged to be gay

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Go ahead and ignore the multiple reports saying while it was a bad situation in Miami, it was nothing too out of the ordinary for the league. So obnoxiously arrogant.

Go ahead and ignore the countless player reports that stuff like this would never fly in their team's locker room. And those player reports were before the worst details came out.

I have a slight problem with the bolded. When I see players make these statements I understand what they mean but I don't know that they're thinking about it, how this situation came to be. If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing, they most certainly would have it fly in their locker room. Its easy for someone to say this when that wasnt the case. Richie and company didnt come in and overnight take a respected locker room and change it to what we hear about today. This was how it was when Martin (and countless others) arrived. A newbie isnt changing that.

I don't see the conflict. Players on other teams said it wouldn't fly in their locker rooms. It did "fly" in the Dolphins locker room for the first 2 years of Martin's career. By saying "If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing," you're saying "if player X was drafted into the Dolphins locker room the last 2 years." I don't take issue with that. I take issue with behavior this bad being prevalent on other teams.

They said it wouldnt fly in their current locker room. If the leaders of that team are cut or moved on and new leaders come in than who knows what may or may not happen.

I don't know enough to say surely whether or not this is prevalent on other teams. When I read those statements I go back to the Breer tweet from the previous page, when he said:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

Who am I to argue with that? Why isnt he stunned by this after reading the report? Is he lying? Player X may or may not have been in this situation before...so when he (Player X) says it he's speaking from his own experiance and one that may have included one locker room.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Nobody posting here thinks the NFL locker room culture is really none of our business? Who are any of us to say it needs changed?

It's a business. Who the hell should have to go to work every day and put up with that kind of abuse-which would affect their performance, the performance of their team, the performance of the business.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Based on the below, I've come to the conclusion that the winner in all of this will be Michael Sam

Per the Wells Report, Dolphins OL coach Jim Turner gave ex-Fins and current Panthers OT Andrew McDonald a male blowup doll as an insinuation that McDonald was homosexual.
Referred to as "Player A" in the report, McDonald was "frequently taunted ... with homophobic insults. He often was called a "" or a "######" in a demeaning tone." Richie Incognito went so far as to accuse McDonald of "sucking d---", "pissing while sitting down," and asked him "where’s your boyfriend?" None of the Dolphins' players actually believed McDonald was gay, but Turner took the harassment to another level. Around Christmas time in 2012, Turner gave his linemen gift bags and stocking stuffers. All of the linemen received inflatable female dolls. McDonald's contained a male blowup doll. Turner remains employed by the Dolphins.

After this, the NFL has no choice but to cater to Sam. Its PR 101. Sam is now the right person in the right place.

As for the wrong person in the right place....

Jim Turner is going be raked over the proverbial coals over this one. He will be turned into, and rightfully so, the fall guy for homophobic culture in the NFL. He will never work on any level ever again and his demise will set the tone going forward.

 

[Neofight]

Go ahead and ignore the multiple reports saying while it was a bad situation in Miami, it was nothing too out of the ordinary for the league. So obnoxiously arrogant.

Go ahead and ignore the countless player reports that stuff like this would never fly in their team's locker room. And those player reports were before the worst details came out.

I have a slight problem with the bolded. When I see players make these statements I understand what they mean but I don't know that they're thinking about it, how this situation came to be. If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing, they most certainly would have it fly in their locker room. Its easy for someone to say this when that wasnt the case. Richie and company didnt come in and overnight take a respected locker room and change it to what we hear about today. This was how it was when Martin (and countless others) arrived. A newbie isnt changing that.

I don't see the conflict. Players on other teams said it wouldn't fly in their locker rooms. It did "fly" in the Dolphins locker room for the first 2 years of Martin's career. By saying "If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing," you're saying "if player X was drafted into the Dolphins locker room the last 2 years." I don't take issue with that. I take issue with behavior this bad being prevalent on other teams.

They said it wouldnt fly in their current locker room. If the leaders of that team are cut or moved on and new leaders come in than who knows what may or may not happen.

I don't know enough to say surely whether or not this is prevalent on other teams. When I read those statements I go back to the Breer tweet from the previous page, when he said:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

Who am I to argue with that? Why isnt he stunned by this after reading the report? Is he lying? Player X may or may not have been in this situation before...so when he (Player X) says it he's speaking from his own experiance and one that may have included one locker room.

Did Breer ever play? You quoted a guy that did and who said plain as day this stuff is beyond the norm...

Who are you to argue with that?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Watch4thasnitches

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Go ahead and ignore the multiple reports saying while it was a bad situation in Miami, it was nothing too out of the ordinary for the league. So obnoxiously arrogant.

Go ahead and ignore the countless player reports that stuff like this would never fly in their team's locker room. And those player reports were before the worst details came out.

I have a slight problem with the bolded. When I see players make these statements I understand what they mean but I don't know that they're thinking about it, how this situation came to be. If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing, they most certainly would have it fly in their locker room. Its easy for someone to say this when that wasnt the case. Richie and company didnt come in and overnight take a respected locker room and change it to what we hear about today. This was how it was when Martin (and countless others) arrived. A newbie isnt changing that.

I don't see the conflict. Players on other teams said it wouldn't fly in their locker rooms. It did "fly" in the Dolphins locker room for the first 2 years of Martin's career. By saying "If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing," you're saying "if player X was drafted into the Dolphins locker room the last 2 years." I don't take issue with that. I take issue with behavior this bad being prevalent on other teams.

They said it wouldnt fly in their current locker room. If the leaders of that team are cut or moved on and new leaders come in than who knows what may or may not happen.

I don't know enough to say surely whether or not this is prevalent on other teams. When I read those statements I go back to the Breer tweet from the previous page, when he said:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

Who am I to argue with that? Why isnt he stunned by this after reading the report? Is he lying? Player X may or may not have been in this situation before...so when he (Player X) says it he's speaking from his own experiance and one that may have included one locker room.

Did Breer ever play?You quoted a guy that did and who said plain as day this stuff is beyond the norm...

Who are you to argue with that?

I'm not arguing that. I think my point is fairly easy to understand.

Obviously players veiws (not being stunned by what they read in the report and/or heard) will differ on this issue, as will coaches and guys who cover the sport. The very fact that there's differing opinions between them proves the point I'm trying to make. Breer says he isnt stunned by this because of what he's seen and/or heard. Reporter X may say this stuff is way beyond the norm for what he's seen and/or heard. All they're doing is comparing their own experiances. It doesnt mean that Breer had to play or he's lying or doesnt have a valid opinion on the issue.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Incognito meant snitches get stitches and blood in blood out from a place of love.

He still wants to hug Martin. :later dumps lifeless body on the ground:

 

[Doug B]

Saying one is not stunned by something is not the same as saying that same something is commonplace.

An isolated bar fight is not stunning. Can happen anywhere. But if a bar has a dozen fights every night, it's got a problem that can affect the botttom line.

 

[Neofight]

Go ahead and ignore the multiple reports saying while it was a bad situation in Miami, it was nothing too out of the ordinary for the league. So obnoxiously arrogant.

Go ahead and ignore the countless player reports that stuff like this would never fly in their team's locker room. And those player reports were before the worst details came out.

I have a slight problem with the bolded. When I see players make these statements I understand what they mean but I don't know that they're thinking about it, how this situation came to be. If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing, they most certainly would have it fly in their locker room. Its easy for someone to say this when that wasnt the case. Richie and company didnt come in and overnight take a respected locker room and change it to what we hear about today. This was how it was when Martin (and countless others) arrived. A newbie isnt changing that.

I don't see the conflict. Players on other teams said it wouldn't fly in their locker rooms. It did "fly" in the Dolphins locker room for the first 2 years of Martin's career. By saying "If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing," you're saying "if player X was drafted into the Dolphins locker room the last 2 years." I don't take issue with that. I take issue with behavior this bad being prevalent on other teams.

They said it wouldnt fly in their current locker room. If the leaders of that team are cut or moved on and new leaders come in than who knows what may or may not happen.

I don't know enough to say surely whether or not this is prevalent on other teams. When I read those statements I go back to the Breer tweet from the previous page, when he said:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

Who am I to argue with that? Why isnt he stunned by this after reading the report? Is he lying? Player X may or may not have been in this situation before...so when he (Player X) says it he's speaking from his own experiance and one that may have included one locker room.

Did Breer ever play?You quoted a guy that did and who said plain as day this stuff is beyond the norm...

Who are you to argue with that?

I'm not arguing that. I think my point is fairly easy to understand.

Obviously players veiws (not being stunned by what they read in the report and/or heard) will differ on this issue, as will coaches and guys who cover the sport. The very fact that there's differing opinions between them proves the point I'm trying to make. Breer says he isnt stunned by this because of what he's seen and/or heard. Reporter X may say this stuff is way beyond the norm for what he's seen and/or heard. All they're doing is comparing their own experiances. It doesnt mean that Breer had to play or he's lying or doesnt have a valid opinion on the issue.

Do you think Breer is uniquely qualified to know what goes on inside and outside of locker rooms? I only remember him as being the guy who took to twitter to whine about being dissed by Delta (or some other airline) this past season. He doesn't strike me as a guy who is very keyed in.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The more I read this report the more disgusted I become with these guys we have on our team. Just pure trash.

Now.......let's be real for a moment. Most other players would have nipped that in the butt. No doubt in my mind they would have laid out Incognito, Jerry and Pouncy...whether that would be in a practice scrum, in the locker room...whatever.

The fact that Martin laughed along, and just took it......he was easy to be a whipping boy. It's just like freaking school. When a bully looks for fresh meat he will keep pounding on the kid that won't fight back.

The thing that was hard to digest is....here is a guy who has played football his entire life and was able to get through a lot of teasing and bullying. I mean the guy talks about being bullied his entire life. He will not survive in the NFL where if you don't take a stand for yourself your going to have to live with the fact that at least 50% of the league (just guessing on my part) is full of animals like Incognito, Jerry and Pouncy who are pure garbage. No brain boneheaded ghetto trash.

Now I know a lot of this goes on in the league......but the degree and level of the mental abuse I read (SMH).....if someone talked to me about my mother and sister like that.....whether I can hurt them or not....I am going to at least try to hurt them back and tell them to back the ***k off.

If Martin had that inner strength to do this and draw a line I don't think we ever hear about this. But he didn't. He bascially wanted to fit in and went along...for better or for worse. He could not take a stand and the only way he could was to finally crack and do what he did.

I wish him luck.....I really do. Because even if he catches on with a new team....or even sticks with Miami....he really is not a good NFL tackle. But that is not the point.

Steven Ross has a huge....I mean huge mess to clean up here. Incredible what has happened to this franchise the moment Shula left. Just incredible.

Well said Todem and I think Ross needs to be called on the carpet, maybe a change of ownership by force from the league. This guy is clueless and Philbin should be let go either for knowing and not doing anything or NOT KNOWING which shows complete incompetence. I will not be purchasing any tickets for any games this season which is a shame as I wanted to become a season ticket holder again and cut down on the FF stuff and having to watch every game, just focus more on the Phins but that's a pipe dream now.

Ross is such an idiot backing Philbin publicly, should have 86'd everyone. I expect Pouncey to receive a major suspension and I also think Philbin should receive the Sean Peyton type suspension. Minimum 8 games, perhaps the whole season and force Ross to make a decision on what to do. Fan support was already weak, this just runs it into the ground.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Based on the below, I've come to the conclusion that the winner in all of this will be Michael Sam

Per the Wells Report, Dolphins OL coach Jim Turner gave ex-Fins and current Panthers OT Andrew McDonald a male blowup doll as an insinuation that McDonald was homosexual.
Referred to as "Player A" in the report, McDonald was "frequently taunted ... with homophobic insults. He often was called a "######" or a "######" in a demeaning tone." Richie Incognito went so far as to accuse McDonald of "sucking d---", "pissing while sitting down," and asked him "where’s your boyfriend?" None of the Dolphins' players actually believed McDonald was gay, but Turner took the harassment to another level. Around Christmas time in 2012, Turner gave his linemen gift bags and stocking stuffers. All of the linemen received inflatable female dolls. McDonald's contained a male blowup doll. Turner remains employed by the Dolphins.

After this, the NFL has no choice but to cater to Sam. Its PR 101. Sam is now the right person in the right place.

As for the wrong person in the right place....

Jim Turner is going be raked over the proverbial coals over this one. He will be turned into, and rightfully so, the fall guy for homophobic culture in the NFL. He will never work on any level ever again and his demise will set the tone going forward.

So Andrew McDonald is the "McDonald" that Martin was referring to when he told Richie he was going to lock him in a closet with McDonald and some sandpaper condoms. Right? I had wondered who McDonald was in the quote this entire time.

So, if I understand this correctly, Martin was essentially calling out his former teammate as being homosexual, while at the same time crafting a veiled threat (albeit seemingly in good locker-room style fun) toward Richie to lock him in a closet with a homosexual and sandpaper condoms.

I mean...is he not as much a part of the problem here as he is a part of any solution? We know we have 3 D-bags in Richie, Pouncey, and now Jerry as well. They harassed, and bullied, and all of that bad stuff. It seems clear at this point. But what about Martin here? Does he get off in the public eye for how he contributed to the problem simply because he also was the one to blow the whistle on it? We know from eyewitness accounts that he contributed in bullying Nate Garner, who seems to have gotten it about as bad as anyone else did in this case. We have seen the text exchanges, including one where he seemingly is harassing some guy behind his back about his sexuality. Is "trying to fit in" a valid excuse?

I get that most people are posting logically at this point, and recognizing that everyone is to blame. I agree with that completely. From the 3 D-bags, to Martin, to Turner, to Ireland, and even to Philbin and Ross for not captaining their ship - they are all guilty here. The organization sucks. I am ashamed that I am a fan.

 

[proninja]

I thought proninja had two of the posts of the thread in one exchange. In the wake of the Glazer Incognito interview, he said (paraphrasing) he was either totally wronged or a complete sociopath, it wasn't possible to have any middle ground.

Thanks Bob. That's the first thing I thought when I read about incognito's latest release about Martin's "mental problems."

Richie needs help for his too.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Go ahead and ignore the multiple reports saying while it was a bad situation in Miami, it was nothing too out of the ordinary for the league. So obnoxiously arrogant.

Go ahead and ignore the countless player reports that stuff like this would never fly in their team's locker room. And those player reports were before the worst details came out.

I have a slight problem with the bolded. When I see players make these statements I understand what they mean but I don't know that they're thinking about it, how this situation came to be. If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing, they most certainly would have it fly in their locker room. Its easy for someone to say this when that wasnt the case. Richie and company didnt come in and overnight take a respected locker room and change it to what we hear about today. This was how it was when Martin (and countless others) arrived. A newbie isnt changing that.

I don't see the conflict. Players on other teams said it wouldn't fly in their locker rooms. It did "fly" in the Dolphins locker room for the first 2 years of Martin's career. By saying "If Player X was drafted into this situation and this is what the "leaders" (veteran players and coaches) of his team were doing and allowing," you're saying "if player X was drafted into the Dolphins locker room the last 2 years." I don't take issue with that. I take issue with behavior this bad being prevalent on other teams.

They said it wouldnt fly in their current locker room. If the leaders of that team are cut or moved on and new leaders come in than who knows what may or may not happen.

I don't know enough to say surely whether or not this is prevalent on other teams. When I read those statements I go back to the Breer tweet from the previous page, when he said:

@AlbertBreer: I've gone thru pretty much all the facts in the Wells report, and it's really hard -- if you've been around the NFL -- to be stunned by it.

Who am I to argue with that? Why isnt he stunned by this after reading the report? Is he lying? Player X may or may not have been in this situation before...so when he (Player X) says it he's speaking from his own experiance and one that may have included one locker room.

Did Breer ever play?You quoted a guy that did and who said plain as day this stuff is beyond the norm...

Who are you to argue with that?

I'm not arguing that. I think my point is fairly easy to understand.

Obviously players veiws (not being stunned by what they read in the report and/or heard) will differ on this issue, as will coaches and guys who cover the sport. The very fact that there's differing opinions between them proves the point I'm trying to make. Breer says he isnt stunned by this because of what he's seen and/or heard. Reporter X may say this stuff is way beyond the norm for what he's seen and/or heard. All they're doing is comparing their own experiances. It doesnt mean that Breer had to play or he's lying or doesnt have a valid opinion on the issue.

Do you think Breer is uniquely qualified to know what goes on inside and outside of locker rooms? I only remember him as being the guy who took to twitter to whine about being dissed by Delta (or some other airline) this past season. He doesn't strike me as a guy who is very keyed in.

Yeah, I remember that. For a guy that must travel a ton, he acted like he had no idea how airlines work. Maybe he thinks he's more important than he is. He's a ####### sports writer for chrissakes.

 

[proninja]

Martin was a victim.

Case closed. My speculation was wrong in regards to the severity of the taunts and bullying. And I based it on my own experience in high school and college baseball.

This was some brutal treatment.......you should not have to be subjected to this on a daily basis. A metally weak person would crumble. And a person who is head strong and confident......would not deal with this either. It came down to situation of how are you going to handle this? I always felt martin should have dealt with it internally first....I mean really pursue that and keep it in house.

He did not.

Because of that....a lot of players would never trust him. And trust is the cornerstone to being a teammate. Even though it was wrong, and now after reading a lot of this report.....I am disgusted with my favorite NFL team to allow this to go on for so long.....Martin's career is on thin ice as well.

In any case.....no question now. Martin was a victim here and Incognito the ring leader.

Let's move on now......let's start talking about footbal again everyone.

Glad to hear you admit you were wrong. Lots of people would keep on slamming Martin.

I think you're still wrong with the "players won't trust him because he didn't keep it in house" thing too though. Seems like the only reason to worry about that is if you're the type of locker room that has that crap going on in it. If you run a locker room where players are treated like humans, there's really nothing to worry about.

I'm interested if he's actually any good or not, because I think Seattle would be the perfect landing spot for him. He's got a couple Stanford teammates here, Baldwin has been vocally supportive of him, and if Sherm's got your back, nothing bad is going to happen to you. It's a progressive town, and Carroll is as supportive of players and taking care of them how they need to be as any coach in the league. I can't say for sure this kind of stuff doesn't go on here, but it would shock me. But if he's not good enough as a player, it's a moot point.

 

[Doug B]

I'm interested if he's actually any good or not, because I think Seattle would be the perfect landing spot for him.

Likely Seattle or Indianapolis (with Luck, Fleener, and Pep Hamilton).

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I'm interested if he's actually any good or not, because I think Seattle would be the perfect landing spot for him.

Likely Seattle or Indianapolis (with Luck, Fleener, and Pep Hamilton).

Harbaugh coached him at Stanford, so add SF to the list. Bidding war!

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I'm interested if he's actually any good or not, because I think Seattle would be the perfect landing spot for him.

Likely Seattle or Indianapolis (with Luck, Fleener, and Pep Hamilton).

Harbaugh coached him at Stanford, so add SF to the list. Bidding war!

at the bidding war!

I think the kid needs some time off to figure some things out and maybe put that degree to work in a different field.

 

[proninja]

I'm interested if he's actually any good or not, because I think Seattle would be the perfect landing spot for him.

Likely Seattle or Indianapolis (with Luck, Fleener, and Pep Hamilton).

Harbaugh coached him at Stanford, so add SF to the list. Bidding war!

If I had to guess, I'd guess harbaugh wasn't Martin's favorite coach ever. Baldwin and Sherman certainly weren't his biggest fans. But that's just speculation. They could have been bff's for all I know.

 

[Todem]

Martin was a victim.

Case closed. My speculation was wrong in regards to the severity of the taunts and bullying. And I based it on my own experience in high school and college baseball.

This was some brutal treatment.......you should not have to be subjected to this on a daily basis. A metally weak person would crumble. And a person who is head strong and confident......would not deal with this either. It came down to situation of how are you going to handle this? I always felt martin should have dealt with it internally first....I mean really pursue that and keep it in house.

He did not.

Because of that....a lot of players would never trust him. And trust is the cornerstone to being a teammate. Even though it was wrong, and now after reading a lot of this report.....I am disgusted with my favorite NFL team to allow this to go on for so long.....Martin's career is on thin ice as well.

In any case.....no question now. Martin was a victim here and Incognito the ring leader.

Let's move on now......let's start talking about footbal again everyone.

Glad to hear you admit you were wrong. Lots of people would keep on slamming Martin.

I think you're still wrong with the "players won't trust him because he didn't keep it in house" thing too though. Seems like the only reason to worry about that is if you're the type of locker room that has that crap going on in it. If you run a locker room where players are treated like humans, there's really nothing to worry about.

I'm interested if he's actually any good or not, because I think Seattle would be the perfect landing spot for him. He's got a couple Stanford teammates here, Baldwin has been vocally supportive of him, and if Sherm's got your back, nothing bad is going to happen to you. It's a progressive town, and Carroll is as supportive of players and taking care of them how they need to be as any coach in the league. I can't say for sure this kind of stuff doesn't go on here, but it would shock me. But if he's not good enough as a player, it's a moot point.

I always said from the start that if this report came out and revealed true things…..I would easily change face.

We all were speculating and trying to have a discussion about what possibly happened. Now that an official report has finally been put out we have a much clearer picture of what went on.

Some of the things that were said were downright sick……just sick sick sick.

No place for that in any profession period. Just insane. Pure trash.

@MOP

I totally agree about Philbin…….he did not know? How could that be possible. I say BS. Suspend him…..no question. In fact I would have fired him and his entire staff after last season regardless just based on his cluelessness in coaching an NFL team.

Anyway…….

 

[Bob Magaw]

The more I read this report the more disgusted I become with these guys we have on our team. Just pure trash.

Now.......let's be real for a moment. Most other players would have nipped that in the butt. No doubt in my mind they would have laid out Incognito, Jerry and Pouncy...whether that would be in a practice scrum, in the locker room...whatever.

The fact that Martin laughed along, and just took it......he was easy to be a whipping boy. It's just like freaking school. When a bully looks for fresh meat he will keep pounding on the kid that won't fight back.

The thing that was hard to digest is....here is a guy who has played football his entire life and was able to get through a lot of teasing and bullying. I mean the guy talks about being bullied his entire life. He will not survive in the NFL where if you don't take a stand for yourself your going to have to live with the fact that at least 50% of the league (just guessing on my part) is full of animals like Incognito, Jerry and Pouncy who are pure garbage. No brain boneheaded ghetto trash.

Now I know a lot of this goes on in the league......but the degree and level of the mental abuse I read (SMH).....if someone talked to me about my mother and sister like that.....whether I can hurt them or not....I am going to at least try to hurt them back and tell them to back the ***k off.

If Martin had that inner strength to do this and draw a line I don't think we ever hear about this. But he didn't. He bascially wanted to fit in and went along...for better or for worse. He could not take a stand and the only way he could was to finally crack and do what he did.

I wish him luck.....I really do. Because even if he catches on with a new team....or even sticks with Miami....he really is not a good NFL tackle. But that is not the point.

Steven Ross has a huge....I mean huge mess to clean up here. Incredible what has happened to this franchise the moment Shula left. Just incredible.

Well said Todem and I think Ross needs to be called on the carpet, maybe a change of ownership by force from the league. This guy is clueless and Philbin should be let go either for knowing and not doing anything or NOT KNOWING which shows complete incompetence. I will not be purchasing any tickets for any games this season which is a shame as I wanted to become a season ticket holder again and cut down on the FF stuff and having to watch every game, just focus more on the Phins but that's a pipe dream now. Ross is such an idiot backing Philbin publicly, should have 86'd everyone. I expect Pouncey to receive a major suspension and I also think Philbin should receive the Sean Peyton type suspension. Minimum 8 games, perhaps the whole season and force Ross to make a decision on what to do. Fan support was already weak, this just runs it into the ground.

Where do they go from here department?

1) MIA has to distance themselves by denouncing in as strong as possible terms Incognito and his actions.

2) Allow Martin back as he has been exonerated? But Martin already said I think another team would be best, so almost certain mutual parting.

3) Philbin - no change. If he knew, he should be fired for complicity. If he didn't, he should be fired for incompetence. More half measures from Ross by firing Ireland but not the HC. How could he not know about the golf incident, at the time which that happened, he reportedly was already on zero strike terms?.

4) OL coach Turner - Must have been more in the loop and therefore even more implicated than Philbin. How do you forget giving a blow up doll as a present. Has he done that thousands of times and the recollections blur together? NO received multiple front office and coaching suspensions, not just for the Bountygate actions themselves that prompted the investigation, but a pattern of deceit in obstructing the investigation.

5) Pouncey (Jerry was already a free agent - will he receive less interest around the league now?), they are in a pickle as he is a core player. Does the team suspend him? Does the league suspend him if MIA doesn't.

6) Do we get a "status report" on the ex-player and exec leadership council to draft a new team charter (reports that not only they never met, but were never scheduled to meet - classic lip service move purely motivated by PR reasons, Ross might the biggest joke of all).

7) Will Incognito receive a suspension or work again? Ironic that he was hatin on Martin recently, now wants people to stop the hatin. In defiantly insisting he would be exonerated, he revealed the same delusions in not accepting responsibility that made him think that his actions and behavior were acceptable in the first place. Will he issue an apology (doubtful for legal reasons)? On what basis would prospective future teams think he has learned from this experience so it doesn't happen again?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The more I read this report the more disgusted I become with these guys we have on our team. Just pure trash.

Now.......let's be real for a moment. Most other players would have nipped that in the butt. No doubt in my mind they would have laid out Incognito, Jerry and Pouncy...whether that would be in a practice scrum, in the locker room...whatever.

The fact that Martin laughed along, and just took it......he was easy to be a whipping boy. It's just like freaking school. When a bully looks for fresh meat he will keep pounding on the kid that won't fight back.

The thing that was hard to digest is....here is a guy who has played football his entire life and was able to get through a lot of teasing and bullying. I mean the guy talks about being bullied his entire life. He will not survive in the NFL where if you don't take a stand for yourself your going to have to live with the fact that at least 50% of the league (just guessing on my part) is full of animals like Incognito, Jerry and Pouncy who are pure garbage. No brain boneheaded ghetto trash.

Now I know a lot of this goes on in the league......but the degree and level of the mental abuse I read (SMH).....if someone talked to me about my mother and sister like that.....whether I can hurt them or not....I am going to at least try to hurt them back and tell them to back the ***k off.

If Martin had that inner strength to do this and draw a line I don't think we ever hear about this. But he didn't. He bascially wanted to fit in and went along...for better or for worse. He could not take a stand and the only way he could was to finally crack and do what he did.

I wish him luck.....I really do. Because even if he catches on with a new team....or even sticks with Miami....he really is not a good NFL tackle. But that is not the point.

Steven Ross has a huge....I mean huge mess to clean up here. Incredible what has happened to this franchise the moment Shula left. Just incredible.

Well said Todem and I think Ross needs to be called on the carpet, maybe a change of ownership by force from the league. This guy is clueless and Philbin should be let go either for knowing and not doing anything or NOT KNOWING which shows complete incompetence. I will not be purchasing any tickets for any games this season which is a shame as I wanted to become a season ticket holder again and cut down on the FF stuff and having to watch every game, just focus more on the Phins but that's a pipe dream now. Ross is such an idiot backing Philbin publicly, should have 86'd everyone. I expect Pouncey to receive a major suspension and I also think Philbin should receive the Sean Peyton type suspension. Minimum 8 games, perhaps the whole season and force Ross to make a decision on what to do. Fan support was already weak, this just runs it into the ground.

Where do they go from here department?

1) MIA has to distance themselves by denouncing in as strong as possible terms Incognito and his actions.

2) Allow Martin back as he has been exonerated? But Martin already said I think another team would be best, so almost certain mutual parting.

3) Philbin - no change. If he knew, he should be fired for complicity. If he didn't, he should be fired for incompetence. More half measures from Ross by firing Ireland but not the HC.

4) OL coach Turner - Must have been more in the loop and therefore even more implicated than Philbin. How do you forget giving a blow up doll as a present. Has he done that thousands of times and the recollections blur together? NO received multiple front office and coaching suspensions, not just for the Bountygate actions themselves that prompted the investigation, but a pattern of deceit in obstructing the investigation.

5) Pouncey (Jerry was already a free agent - will he receive less interest around the league now?), they are in a pickle as he is a core player. Do the team suspend him? Does the league suspend him if MIA doesn't.

6) Do we get a "status report" on the ex-player and exec leadership council to draft a new team charter (reports that not only they never met, but we're never scheduled to meet - classic lip service move purely motivated by PR reasons, Ross might the biggest joke of all).

7) Will Incognito receive a suspension or work again? Ironic that he was hatin on Martin recently, now wants people to stop the hatin. In defiantly insisting he would be exonerated, he revealed the same delusions in not accepting responsibility that made him think that his actions and behavior were acceptable in the first place.

Hey Bob, as always I enjoy posting back and forth with you.

I'll answer in order of the numbers as you did.

1-They did suspend him for the season and released him from the team. Actions speak louder than words.

2-I got news for all the folks who feel somehow fulfilled from the Wells report…Martin will not see the inside of another NFL locker room. He already is marginal and then you add in some very damaging mental stuff form the report as suggested by Wells and then denounced by Martin's camp, he ain't coming back to Miami or any team as I read it.

3-Agree 100%, Philbin should be fired immediately with Jim Turner.

4-Turner should get the Greg Williams treatment here. He shouldn't be allowed to coach again. He brought blow up doll to hand to Martin or be in on the jokes, sounds like martin could not go to him for any support.

5-Pouncey should get a big suspension and Miami will now have ALL 5 positions on the OL vacated…they will have to draft 3-4 OL and bring in 2-3 UFA, all will likely make the team.

6-Ross is the worst owner in the league. If not, bottom 3.

7-Richie will find work if he is not suspended further. He can actually play, same for Pouncey should he be released by the team.

 

[Kalamazoo]

That was a big bone of contention by me as well. It did not surprise me at all. I had been around this myself....took some of it....and then after proving myself on the field dealt some too to the Freshman and what not.It's part of sports.

But we were never this vulgar....it was in good fun. Obviously this went far deeper. Martin has some real issues he needs to deal with. I don't think he is a stable person and he should really get some help.

Incognito is what we thought he has always been. A bonehead.

I think this report makes me question more Incognito's sanity than anyone else's. He thought he would be cleared by this report? Jeez.

It's amazing how clueless he is. He was his own worst enemy. He pretty much came out and admitted to everything like it was no big deal. He kinda gave them the rope to hang him with. It sounds like Pouncey, Jerry, and Turner were in denial/don't recall mode, which may be why they got off more easily.

There were two things in the report that were interesting...

Both of Richie's contracts with Dolphins had an unusual "character" clause because of his past history and he was told by Ireland that he would be subject to a "one-strike" policy for any infractions. (I can't seem to copy from the report, but see pages 61-61.) This could be why they suspended him so quickly and he didn't squawk about it too much. It also begs the question of why they kept him around after the golfing incident.

Also, (see pp. 25-26):

In addition, Incognito alleged that Martin at times abused alcohol and recreational drugs, particularly after bad games.

There was a footnote after this sentence:

Although we uncovered information relating to alleged drug use in this investigation, further inquiries into these matters are beyond the scope of our mandate, and the determination of any consequences for such activities is left to the league.

It will be interesting to see how the league handles this if Martin comes back. To investigate his possible drug use might seem like piling on, but if they don't, they will wide open to criticism that they are giving him special treatment.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Poor Richie!

Richie Incognito ‏@68INCOGNITO 2h
Pleeeeease Stop The Hate. Happy Valentines Day

 

[Doug B]

4-Turner should get the Greg Williams treatment here. He shouldn't be allowed to coach again. ...

I'm not sure how widely known this is ... but Gregg Williams is the current DC of the St. Louis Rams. He was on the Rams' payroll all of 2013 as a "consultant", and was promoted to DC after the season.

 

[Goldalene]

It's sickening that people are still blaming Martin, in any way, for this, for not getting illegal and punching a guy or for getting depression after years of abuse.

 

[RBM]

Martin was a victim.

Case closed. My speculation was wrong in regards to the severity of the taunts and bullying. And I based it on my own experience in high school and college baseball.

This was some brutal treatment.......you should not have to be subjected to this on a daily basis. A metally weak person would crumble. And a person who is head strong and confident......would not deal with this either. It came down to situation of how are you going to handle this? I always felt martin should have dealt with it internally first....I mean really pursue that and keep it in house.

He did not.

Because of that....a lot of players would never trust him. And trust is the cornerstone to being a teammate. Even though it was wrong, and now after reading a lot of this report.....I am disgusted with my favorite NFL team to allow this to go on for so long.....Martin's career is on thin ice as well.

In any case.....no question now. Martin was a victim here and Incognito the ring leader.

Let's move on now......let's start talking about footbal again everyone.

Glad to hear you admit you were wrong. Lots of people would keep on slamming Martin.

I think you're still wrong with the "players won't trust him because he didn't keep it in house" thing too though. Seems like the only reason to worry about that is if you're the type of locker room that has that crap going on in it. If you run a locker room where players are treated like humans, there's really nothing to worry about.

I'm interested if he's actually any good or not, because I think Seattle would be the perfect landing spot for him. He's got a couple Stanford teammates here, Baldwin has been vocally supportive of him, and if Sherm's got your back, nothing bad is going to happen to you. It's a progressive town, and Carroll is as supportive of players and taking care of them how they need to be as any coach in the league. I can't say for sure this kind of stuff doesn't go on here, but it would shock me. But if he's not good enough as a player, it's a moot point.

Lots of rainbows and butterflies in your version of the NFL. Jeez man c'mon.This is a brutal, violent sport played by nut jobs. It is no place for a guy like Martin.

 

[CalBear]

I agree that the report isn't stunning. The Bountygate situation wasn't stunning, either. Both are examples of long-tolerated, inhumane, unwelcome, and unnecessary behavior that provides no benefit (and significant drawbacks) to the NFL, its players, and its fans. Calling out the issue and forcing the league to address it is a positive step. It won't make the world change overnight, but it will start to raise the bar on the required level of human behavior from players. And that's a good thing.