Dolphin Players bullied Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito SUSPENDED (3 Viewers)

[Ballstein]

Turns out that Martin was Larry Lester's son. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[dickey moe]

What a complete cluster####.

 

[karmarooster]

We all remember Incognito from 3rd grade... that fat mean kid. Looks like he's never really changed. When this broke, I just thought back to Hard Knocks when he came across as such a jerk:

http://deadspin.com/report-richie-incognito-played-main-role-in-bullying-j-1457200127

 

[GroveDiesel]

Career Over.

Martin's? Maybe

Richie? He'd get signed tomorrow if the Phins cut him.

Hate to say it, but nobody likes a whistle-blower. Right or wrong, bullies bring less drama. Publicly everyone says, "yes, bring in the rat" but behind closed doors they say "gimme the bully"

I don't think so. Incognito is widely known as a dirty player. Very unlikeable. The fact that he's now been caught turning his nastiness onto his own teammates isn't something that other teams would want to bring into their locker rooms.

And there's a major difference between a guy Like Incognito and guys like Moss, TO, Blackmon and Josh Gordon. All the other guys are elite talents that are gamechangers. That's worth the headaches of all the other garbage surrounding those guys. Incognito isn't nearly good enough to get that kind of leeway. No team wants to put up with locker room cancers, bad PR and possible suspensions just so they can have a mediocre guy like Incognito on their team.

 

[JuniorNB]

His dad sounds like a winner.

we know were it comes from i suppose.

Yup. You plant corn, you get corn.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The last time the locker room was under scrutiny in the NFL was 25-30 years ago when women had to be accepted and men had to stop coming out of the showers naked.

NFL and all pro sports are on a different level and you can't compare what happens at an insurance job to an NFL locker room. You all can keep doing it but it's a silly analogy.

I also think just because something has been going on forever and ever doesn't make it right.

Miami has lost 40% of their OL, take note Miller owners.

 

[Pearl Frumpkin]

Miami has lost 40% of their OL, take note Miller owners.

Are the backups decent? Or are they practice squad types?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It's starting to sound like the entire mental health issues of Martin really had no part in this. This has become a straight up harassment suit and Martin is suing his employer over it.

Philbin/Ireland wanted to release a statement in conjunction with Martin's parents and they refused to do it. It really sounds like they are full steam ahead with suing the Phins.

Martin signed a 4 yr/$4.8M deal, he has a guarantee of $2.9M in the contract, he will get every penny plus some it would seem.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Miami has lost 40% of their OL, take note Miller owners.

Are the backups decent? Or are they practice squad types?

Clabo was a FA we signed in the off season, he was on pace to allow the most sacks ever for a OL in the NFL.

Nate Garner is OK as a back up, he played well against Cinci. Don't forget Pouncey got a subpoena which has become back page news at this point compared to the Inc/Martin situation.

Bryant McKinnie is now starting at LT.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I know this, whatever team Martin goes to next, no one will mess with him. If Incognito gets another gig ever, which I doubt, he will be the joke of everything.

Ironic, no?

Why should Martin play again? He can sue Incognito and the Dolphins for millions, and then be set for life.

Gee, I don't know, because maybe he loves the game. Maybe it isnt about the money for everyone, and assuming he is doing this for money is beyond the scope of whats really happening.

Does he? He just walked away it seems

Yup. He clearly does not love it THAT much.

I know I will get lambasted by many for saying this, and probably be told that people feel sorry for my kids, but...

The hazing that has been reported thus far does not sound all that bad to me. The $15K is bad, but not worthy of walking out on your team. The "getting up from the table" BS just sounds like guys being guys. And the recent report that Martin did the exact same thing to Nate Garner (backup guard) the prior week puts a bigger question mark on all of this. You are going to do it to someone else, and then cry when they do it to you? Really? Then tell on them? Sounds like 3rd grade.

I am not saying that the "victim" is to blame here. I am just saying that based upon what I have read, the alleged hazing does not seem to justify someone quitting on their teammates in the middle of a semi-promising season. There is probably a lot that I dont know, ranging possibly from worse hazing, mental illness, or both. Just basing this on what I have read...thats all. So hold off on calling me a bad parent for now.

ETA - That was not directed at any poster in particular - just the mentality of those getting high up on their soap boxes claiming that Martin is unquestionably right in all of this, and anyone questioning that point of view is a moronic thug.

The normal hazing of taping a player to a goal post or giving him a funny hair cut is part of a rookie experience. One thing you skipped over is the hate crime aspect of this story. What if a racial slur or homophobic slur was made by Incognito to Martin in a text or email?

Good point. That is inexcusable.

Then if you agree with that then every thing you said in your rant was useless. Because thats what this is about the hatred from bullying and some of that is surfacing as we speak.

No wonder he chose to leave over subjecting himself to hate, love the game or not. He dealt with it for two years, that shows love of the game to me. If I was dealing with racism and hatred at work for two years, I would get up and leave too, no man (or woman) at any level has to subject himself to that.

That is only true if it happened prior to him bailing, which I personally doubt. The locker room is a very diverse place. Doubt anyone would get away with racism inside of it. My *assumption* was that the alleged racism occurred after he left, when he was texted and received voicemails from someone who was fearful of losing their career over what they likely perceived as Martin going off the deep end.

I am NOT excusing it. I am trying to formulate my opinions based upon what I have read.

My rant was in response to someone saying that Martin loves football, which I find difficult to believe if he walked away over what I am reading he walked away over. I have big time trouble believing that he was being harassed for being black in an NFL locker room. Sexuality is not a race, so if racism is the accusation, then I am making the assumption that he is claiming just that.

 

[Otis]

I have no idea what was really going on, but I find it very strange that so many people think that large people are immune from bullying.

This. Then again, you look at the world around you, and it explains so much.

When did you get so sensitive, Tubby?

REPORTED

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Schefter sounds pretty indignant about what he's been told is on the one voicemail that led the Dolphins to step in last night. You can tell he's personally offended by it.

I blame the situation on Dolphin's management. This sort of thing usually trickles down from the top -- and Incognito being on the leadership council just confirms it in this case. Healthy organizations don't put scumbags in those positions.

For example, Polian mentioned that Saturday, Manning and Brackens were the players who monitored team/internal policies for the Colts.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I am NOT excusing it. I am trying to formulate my opinions based upon what I have read.

My rant was in response to someone saying that Martin loves football, which I find difficult to believe if he walked away over what I am reading he walked away over.

It's just as easy to say unknown things have happened to Martin which would cause someone that loves football to leave. You didn't make that choice, you'd rather just say he doesn't love the game. The choice someone makes is determined by their bias. Yours is against Martin.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I am NOT excusing it. I am trying to formulate my opinions based upon what I have read.

My rant was in response to someone saying that Martin loves football, which I find difficult to believe if he walked away over what I am reading he walked away over.

It's just as easy to say unknown things have happened to Martin which would cause someone that loves football to leave. You didn't make that choice, you'd rather just say he doesn't love the game. The choice someone makes is determined by their bias. Yours is against Martin.

Im not biased against anyone. I am formulating opinions based upon the information that I have access to, just like you are. Stop bullying me!

 

[msommer]

I know this, whatever team Martin goes to next, no one will mess with him. If Incognito gets another gig ever, which I doubt, he will be the joke of everything.

Ironic, no?

Why should Martin play again? He can sue Incognito and the Dolphins for millions, and then be set for life.

Gee, I don't know, because maybe he loves the game. Maybe it isnt about the money for everyone, and assuming he is doing this for money is beyond the scope of whats really happening.

Does he? He just walked away it seems

I get it, you think he is a wuss and bullying don't exist in the NFL.

No, I think he has enough smarts to realize he cannot escape the fallout from this and that in any NFL organisation he risks (at the very least) being a polarising figure, Moreover, that he can make more money now that he has been emotionaly scarred by the Dolphins and Mr Incognito, than by risking his long term health as a decent RT.

Let's not forget he's spent a couple of days in the huddle with his lawyer parents and has already hired legal representation likely to press for compensation.

 

[Phenix]

I am NOT excusing it. I am trying to formulate my opinions based upon what I have read.

My rant was in response to someone saying that Martin loves football, which I find difficult to believe if he walked away over what I am reading he walked away over.

It's just as easy to say unknown things have happened to Martin which would cause someone that loves football to leave. You didn't make that choice, you'd rather just say he doesn't love the game. The choice someone makes is determined by their bias. Yours is against Martin.

Im not biased against anyone. I am formulating opinions based upon the information that I have access to, just like you are. Stop bullying me!

Nope you are bias, quite obvious, too.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I am NOT excusing it. I am trying to formulate my opinions based upon what I have read.

My rant was in response to someone saying that Martin loves football, which I find difficult to believe if he walked away over what I am reading he walked away over.

It's just as easy to say unknown things have happened to Martin which would cause someone that loves football to leave. You didn't make that choice, you'd rather just say he doesn't love the game. The choice someone makes is determined by their bias. Yours is against Martin.

Im not biased against anyone. I am formulating opinions based upon the information that I have access to, just like you are. Stop bullying me!

You made a choice. You accepted that nothing else happened except what you know right now. Since what Martin dealt with didn't find the threshold of quitting, he doesn't love football. This requires bias and assumptions on your part. There is no dishonor in that. You can at least admit it.

 

[mbuehner]

I love how the 'this is no big deal because rookies always pay for dinners' reinforce the 'hazing of any form is bullying and must be stopped'. This is why any form of hazing ends up outlawed.

There is a quantitative difference between a tradition of rookies paying for a meal or two, and using rookies like an ATM for an entire season with the risk of violence to back you up. But that distinction is immaterial, because the hand wringers keep hearing from the meat-heads and assume (hell, hard to blame them) that mild hazing will always devolve into lunacy.

 

[Phenix]

I know this, whatever team Martin goes to next, no one will mess with him. If Incognito gets another gig ever, which I doubt, he will be the joke of everything.

Ironic, no?

Why should Martin play again? He can sue Incognito and the Dolphins for millions, and then be set for life.

Gee, I don't know, because maybe he loves the game. Maybe it isnt about the money for everyone, and assuming he is doing this for money is beyond the scope of whats really happening.

Does he? He just walked away it seems

I get it, you think he is a wuss and bullying don't exist in the NFL.

No, I think he has enough smarts to realize he cannot escape the fallout from this and that in any NFL organisation he risks (at the very least) being a polarising figure, Moreover, that he can make more money now that he has been emotionaly scarred by the Dolphins and Mr Incognito, than by risking his long term health as a decent RT.

Let's not forget he's spent a couple of days in the huddle with his lawyer parents and has already hired legal representation likely to press for compensation.

Making more money is not the point. Man are you clueless. The fact you think this is all about money is pathetic. Its about him being treated poorly. If I was treated poorly at a job I would seek advice from family too. Leave it to an angry person who thinks they know all the facts to think he is looking for a payout.

Also, blackballing the guy who is bringing this to light is not a good biz decision for the NFL. Martin will play again, Incognito will finally be gone forever. Only to surface again for murdering his girlfriend a few years from now, I can only assume.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Making more money is not the point. Man are you clueless. The fact you think this is all about money is pathetic. Its about him being treated poorly. If I was treated poorly at a job I would seek advice from family too. Leave it to an angry person who thinks they know all the facts to think he is looking for a payout.

Also, blackballing the guy who is bringing this to light is not a good biz decision for the NFL. Martin will play again, Incognito will finally be gone forever. Only to surface again for murdering his girlfriend a few years from now, I can only assume.

OMG, Martin has been holed up with mom n dad, never checked into a mental hospital. The mental instability is sounding more and more like a red herring from the Phins. He is suing his employer, how can money not play a role?

 

[ShockTheMonkey]

This story is so confusing. There absolutely has to be something we are not being told. Grown men simply don't bully other grown men to the point of sending weird texts and voicemails especially in the nfl.

Exactly. I think that is what frustrated martin enough to leave the team. Grown men shouldn't act that way. Not to mention paid professionals shouldn't act that way in the work place. I think I read somewhere that the league minimum salary for a rookie is $400,000 / year. Translate that to your typical job in corporate America that pays $400,000 / year, and imagine one of those guys acting this way at work. Would not happen.

 

[mbuehner]

I know this, whatever team Martin goes to next, no one will mess with him. If Incognito gets another gig ever, which I doubt, he will be the joke of everything.

Ironic, no?

Why should Martin play again? He can sue Incognito and the Dolphins for millions, and then be set for life.

Gee, I don't know, because maybe he loves the game. Maybe it isnt about the money for everyone, and assuming he is doing this for money is beyond the scope of whats really happening.

Does he? He just walked away it seems

I get it, you think he is a wuss and bullying don't exist in the NFL.

No, I think he has enough smarts to realize he cannot escape the fallout from this and that in any NFL organisation he risks (at the very least) being a polarising figure, Moreover, that he can make more money now that he has been emotionaly scarred by the Dolphins and Mr Incognito, than by risking his long term health as a decent RT.

Let's not forget he's spent a couple of days in the huddle with his lawyer parents and has already hired legal representation likely to press for compensation.

Making more money is not the point. Man are you clueless. The fact you think this is all about money is pathetic. Its about him being treated poorly. If I was treated poorly at a job I would seek advice from family too. Leave it to an angry person who thinks they know all the facts to think he is looking for a payout.

Also, blackballing the guy who is bringing this to light is not a good biz decision for the NFL. Martin will play again, Incognito will finally be gone forever. Only to surface again for murdering his girlfriend a few years from now, I can only assume.

I'd like to think Incognito will be gone forever but its not going to happen. Goddell will drop the hammer hard but the players union isn't going to roll over. A player could murder 50 children during the halftime show at the superbowl and the union would appeal the punishment. I get its their job, but they don't also seem to recognize the health of the league impacts the future of their members.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

OMG, Martin has been holed up with mom n dad, never checked into a mental hospital.

How do you know this?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Pouncey's name being brought up as a co-bully in this whole thing. Martin feared for his safety and then you know Pouncey got served with Hernandez subpoena over guns/weapons the day before the #### hit the fan.

Now Hernandez has nothing to do with this obviously but Martin may have started to fear because of the fallout what might happen to him.

Martin is in Los Angeles right now with his parents and has ZERO interest in reporting back to the team quickly. In fact he is going to wait until Miami makes their decisions and where they go from here.

And Roger Goodell at some point is going to have to step in.

Expect Pouncey to be the next OL to be suspended. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I am NOT excusing it. I am trying to formulate my opinions based upon what I have read.

My rant was in response to someone saying that Martin loves football, which I find difficult to believe if he walked away over what I am reading he walked away over.

It's just as easy to say unknown things have happened to Martin which would cause someone that loves football to leave. You didn't make that choice, you'd rather just say he doesn't love the game. The choice someone makes is determined by their bias. Yours is against Martin.

Im not biased against anyone. I am formulating opinions based upon the information that I have access to, just like you are. Stop bullying me!

You made a choice. You accepted that nothing else happened except what you know right now. Since what Martin dealt with didn't find the threshold of quitting, he doesn't love football. This requires bias and assumptions on your part. There is no dishonor in that. You can at least admit it.

bi·ased[bahy-uh

st] Show IPA
adjective having or showing bias or prejudice: They gave us a biased report on immigration trends.

Again, I have formulated an opinion based upon what information is available to me. Thats all I can do. I dont have a crystal ball. If that is your interpretation of biased, then I will own it! That is not my interpretation of the word though. If I was predisposed to hate black people, bad left tackles, mediocre right tackles, guys that went to Stanford, or guys that wear 71, that would be biased. I have no issues with any of those things though. I promise.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

OMG, Martin has been holed up with mom n dad, never checked into a mental hospital.

How do you know this?

Hey MTS, he is in Los Angeles with his family. He did not check into a mental hospital. Did he meet with a psychologist/psychiatrist in the last week and getting treatment? Maybe so but that's not like checking into a mental ward. People see mental health physicians all the time but that doesn't mean they are 1 step form checking into the nuthouse.

 

[fatness]

http://deadspin.com/is-richie-incognitos-dad-blasting-jonathan-martin-on-m-1457997230

Even Dolphins fans seem somewhat fed up with Incognito, who can't seem to avoid trouble off the field and is one of the league's dirtiest players on it. But on a popular Dolphins message board, Incognito has at least one strident defender—and it might be his dad.

Early this morning, a poster with the username "idrd1994" left an impassioned defense of Incognito on the FinHeaven message board. In it, he attacked both Martin and Mike Pouncey as "black brothers that do drugs on a regular basis," and asked readers to "pray [GM Jeff] Ireland and [coach Joe] Philbin die of AIDS." He blasts the team from top to bottom, claims Incognito is getting railroaded, and uses the "black people say the N-word in rap music" argument to dismiss claims that Incognito sent racial messages to Martin. He also implies that Martin has pondered suicide, and "does not belong in an NFL locker room."

The post has since been deleted, but here's a screengrab; click the magnifying glass to enlarge.

User "TheWalrus" decided to go back and look at idrd1994's post history, and found something interesting. idrd1994 "only talks about the offensive line, praises Jeff Darlington (who Richie 'trusted' to write the big feature on Richie) and constantly refers to Jason Smith, the legendary #2 overall draft pick bust of the Rams, who was taken when Incognito was there."

Then, more sleuthwork. TheWalrus found another post of idrd1994's where he talks about growing up in New Jersey and watching the Jets play at Shea Stadium. Richie Incognito was born in New Jersey, but after the Jets had already moved. Not too young to have seen the Jets play in Queens? Richie Incognito Sr., an active poster (under a different name) on Nebraska message boards when Richie Jr. played for the Huskers.

A Google search for "idrd1994" turns up a number of posts on RC car message boards, from a poster claiming to live in Arizona—where the Incognitos moved when Richie Jr. was 11. "idrd1994" is also a profile on MyLife.com, registered under one Richie Incognito, age 63, Glendale, Ariz.

idrd1994 has—at least according to what's accessible on the site—a brief but focused posting history on FinHeaven. His first few posts, beginning on Oct. 9, were all about the Miami offensive line. Then, on Nov. 2, when it emerged that the NFLPA was asked to investigate Martin's claims,

On Nov. 3, after Incognito was suspended,

NFLPA IS NOT TOUCHING THIS WITH A TEN FOOT POLE. It will come out, Martin has tried to kill himself three previous times. The team is silent because they all know about it, from Ross on down to Ireland and Philbin. If anybody has seen the latest news the NFLPA has decided not to look into the case. Jonathan Martin has had mental issues since College, it will all come out int he wash gentleman, believe me.

Late last night:

This is a joke, suspend an honest player for a drug addict and a player that tried to kill himself three times. Complete ****in utter BS and this team is just covering their ###. What a friggin joke. Strange only coments are from Zuckerman and not Martin himself. Irleand and Philbin should be ashamed of themselves, this is a ****in joke. Suspend a pro bowl player for a player that does not even belong in the NFL. FUKIN JOKE its all going to come out in the wash and Ireland should be ****in hung because he , philbin and everyone else knew Martin did drugs and attempted suicide three times. But hey, the regular people will never hear that right ? ****IN JOKE FOLKS, ****IN JOKE.

idrd1994's full posting history is available here (registration needed). Sure, it's possible this is someone maintaining a sustained, convincing impersonation of Richie Incognito's father. But if this is actually Richie Sr., it'll save writers a lot of time asking him how he feels about bullying accusations against his son, considering Richie Jr. was bullied as a child. A 2003 ESPN profile of the then-Nebraska player recalls how Richie Jr. was teased for his weight as a child, until his father told him "you can't let them keep doing it," and the young Incognito punched out his tormentor.

Incognito will look good in a Jets uniform beating the piss out of our defensive line in a few weeks. Watch, learn , and we will have ? Jonahtan Martin, draft bust, drug addict and on suicide watch, what a team. LMFAO.

Before his sophomore year, the story notes, the university sent Incognito to a Topeka behavioral clinic for anger management. "I don't think Richie is ever going to completely stop being the way he is," his mother said. Added Richie Sr.: "He just knows how to control it better."

That's some good sleuthing by the guy on the Dolphins message board.

an update on that article...

Update: Adam Beasley of the Miami Herald spoke to the FinsHeaven board administrator. idrd1994 registered with a date of birth of 12/14/1949, which matches Richie Incognito Sr.'s birthday.

And by Beasley.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

For those who want to follow the story and be ahead of some of this, you might enjoy following Armando Salgeuro, Omar kelly, Jeff Darlington, John Renshaw, all of them have twitter accounts and you can get a nice jump on some info there.

I encourage everyone to connect with twitter, I was hesitant for a long time but every Sunday I have about 100 beat writers and sources throughout the NFL I am connected into and the info just comes right to you. Even just major ones like NFL.com, NBC Sports, Peter King, you can get some really good info there before you hear about it 30 minutes later on ESPN.

Just keep an open mind everyone until we get all the facts and get more information. This story is not over, it's just beginning I'm afraid.

I've never felt so low as a fan of this team. When you hate the owner, GM, and losing faith in the coach, where does that leave you as a fan? I'm numb.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm sure it's been said but all sides are going to come out ugly in this story.

A few years ago under Jim Haslett when his Saints regime was unravelling there was more or less a throwdown between wannabe-T.O. Joe Horn and classy, uber-talented, booksmart, future HOF'er Willie Roaf and there were some bad rumors about personal goings on between the two, and at the same time similar ugly rumors about Haslett. - The end of it all was the Great Roaf, arguably one of the top two players the Saints have ever had, and one of the great NFL linemen of the last 30 years, getting traded to the Chiefs, while the noise maker and trouble maker Horn stayed. Roaf being the class character guy wanted out no matter what resolution was proposed to him. However there the Saints gave him what he wanted and a lot of further trouble was avoided (and most Saints fans were happy for him to be out of that bad situation).

In this case with the Dolphins, Martin is no Roaf (apparently in makeup or talent), but someone should have interceded. Several layers of authority failed here. Especially the fellow linemen (two or more of those guys should have handled their own and stepped in front of Incognito long ago and said, "enough"), and then other team leaders (understanding from MOP those are in short supply in MIA right now though), but then absolutely this is ultimately on the coaches and the front office. No matter who was right and who was wrong (and maybe both/all were at fault) the end result is that the team has now lost two starting linemen and further implosion could be underway. This is personnel mismanagement of the worst kind. Absolute fail and it's a sad day for a franchise once led by the likes of Shula and Griese and Marino. This might also be an example of where lack of quality in ownership in an organization is felt all the way down the line. I feel for the fans; call this season a null void, ride it out, get a new GM and coaching staff and start clean next year.

 

[RBM]

I'm sure Incognito is a big obnoxious goon, but I'm finding it hard to believe he's not being singled out right now to take heat off the coaches and higher ups. He's an easy target.

Having said that, it's very likely Martin is a big #####.

 

[Pearl Frumpkin]

Wow. Getting worse. From CBS.

======

Among the texts that Jonathan Martin made available to his parents, and then, eventually the Dolphins and the NFL, include those in which Richie Incognito refers to Martin, who is biracial, as a "half-n*****," according to a source who was privy to the communication.

DOLPHINS HARASSMENT CASELatest updates from the Martin-Incognito situation
There are several instances of threats as well, the sources said, and overall disturbing exchanges, including one in which Incognito refers to defecating in Martin's mouth.

Incognito also made reference to tracking down members of Martin's family and harming them in the texts as well, according to a source.

In some instances, that kind of rhetoric might be shaken off or ignored, but, given the track record of incidents between Incognito and Martin, and how sustained it had become, Martin truly felt that Incognito might be capable of inflicting harm, and for his safety getting away from the team was in his best interests.

The NFL, apprised of the evidence, began upper-level meetings on the case this morning as it launches its investigation. People with access to some of the exchanges believe in time this situation could become a springboard for further policies and practices at the league-wide level in regards to hazing, verbal harassment and perhaps also stricter codes in terms of financial harassment and actions whereby rookies are required by veterans to pick up excessive tabs and bills as a rite of passage.

 

[Workhorse]

For those who want to follow the story and be ahead of some of this, you might enjoy following Armando Salgeuro, Omar kelly, Jeff Darlington, John Renshaw, all of them have twitter accounts and you can get a nice jump on some info there.

I encourage everyone to connect with twitter, I was hesitant for a long time but every Sunday I have about 100 beat writers and sources throughout the NFL I am connected into and the info just comes right to you. Even just major ones like NFL.com, NBC Sports, Peter King, you can get some really good info there before you hear about it 30 minutes later on ESPN.

Just keep an open mind everyone until we get all the facts and get more information. This story is not over, it's just beginning I'm afraid.

I've never felt so low as a fan of this team. When you hate the owner, GM, and losing faith in the coach, where does that leave you as a fan? I'm numb.

As a fan, I feel for you GB. Patriots fans dealt with a similar feeling during the Victor Kiam era and the Lisa Olson debacle.

 

[fatness]

I've never felt so low as a fan of this team. When you hate the owner, GM, and losing faith in the coach, where does that leave you as a fan? I'm numb.

You remember that there are 50-some players on the team who come to work each day, work hard, and for the most part are pretty decent people. And you remember that Richie Incognito is not the team.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'm sure it's been said but all sides are going to come out ugly in this story.

A few years ago under Jim Haslett when his Saints regime was unravelling there was more or less a throwdown between wannabe-T.O. Joe Horn and classy, uber-talented, booksmart, future HOF'er Willie Roaf and there were some bad rumors about personal goings on between the two, and at the same time similar ugly rumors about Haslett. - The end of it all was the Great Roaf, arguably one of the top two players the Saints have ever had, and one of the great NFL linemen of the last 30 years, getting traded to the Chiefs, while the noise maker and trouble maker Horn stayed. Roaf being the class character guy wanted out no matter what resolution was proposed to him. However there the Saints gave him what he wanted and a lot of further trouble was avoided (and most Saints fans were happy for him to be out of that bad situation).

In this case,with the Dolphins Martin is no Roaf (apparently in makeup or talent), but someone should have interceded. Several layers of authority failed here. Especially the fellow linemen, and then other team leaders (understanding from MOP those are in short supply in MIA right now though), but then absolutely this is ultimately on the coaches and the front office. No matter who was right and who was wrong (and maybe both/all were at fault) the end result is that the team has now lost two starting linemen and further implosion could be underway. This is personnel mismanagement of the worst kind. Absolute fail and it's a sad day for a franchsie once led by the likes of Shula and Griese and Marino. I feel for the fans; call this season a null void, ride it out, get a new GM and coaching staff and start clean next year.

I wish I could put the photo up from yesterday as I was standing in the middle of Dolphins' field witnessing all these cyclists coming thru for a worthy cause of fighting cancer. I looked up into the sky and I see Dan Marino on the ring of honor with Duper and Clayton on both sides of him in that ring. I look around and see another corner where the perfect season is enshrined and then I see Shula's name along with many other great Dolphins players and I felt a real sense of pride.

From that high to the lows of last night after we got home and I saw the fallout form this and how the Miami Dolphins name will be forever damaged with this, just so sad. This is gonna potentially tear the fan base apart. Not sure Ross understands just how devastating this is gonna be.

 

[mbuehner]

I've never felt so low as a fan of this team. When you hate the owner, GM, and losing faith in the coach, where does that leave you as a fan? I'm numb.

I like the quarterback. Its too bad he's so young that he really had no chance to stamp this out. There is definitely a leadership gap amongst the players on this team that allows this to happen. Can you imagine a Peyton Manning led team enduring something like this? A lot of analysts and commentators don't take the leadership factor seriously, but its no joke. This is what happens when there's no one in the room to draw the lines and keep people in check... the biggest psychopath takes advantage. NFL teams are fascinating in that you get to see how culture spreads from the top down, for better or worse.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Wow. Getting worse. From CBS.

======

Among the texts that Jonathan Martin made available to his parents, and then, eventually the Dolphins and the NFL, include those in which Richie Incognito refers to Martin, who is biracial, as a "half-n*****," according to a source who was privy to the communication.

DOLPHINS HARASSMENT CASELatest updates from the Martin-Incognito situation
There are several instances of threats as well, the sources said, and overall disturbing exchanges, including one in which Incognito refers to defecating in Martin's mouth.

Incognito also made reference to tracking down members of Martin's family and harming them in the texts as well, according to a source.

In some instances, that kind of rhetoric might be shaken off or ignored, but, given the track record of incidents between Incognito and Martin, and how sustained it had become, Martin truly felt that Incognito might be capable of inflicting harm, and for his safety getting away from the team was in his best interests.

The NFL, apprised of the evidence, began upper-level meetings on the case this morning as it launches its investigation. People with access to some of the exchanges believe in time this situation could become a springboard for further policies and practices at the league-wide level in regards to hazing, verbal harassment and perhaps also stricter codes in terms of financial harassment and actions whereby rookies are required by veterans to pick up excessive tabs and bills as a rite of passage.

Add in Pouncey who seems to be a lot like Hernandez or of similar mindset and maybe Martin(drug use surfacing) did fear for his life.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

OMG, Martin has been holed up with mom n dad, never checked into a mental hospital.

How do you know this?

Hey MTS, he is in Los Angeles with his family. He did not check into a mental hospital. Did he meet with a psychologist/psychiatrist in the last week and getting treatment? Maybe so but that's not like checking into a mental ward. People see mental health physicians all the time but that doesn't mean they are 1 step form checking into the nuthouse.

I ask you how and you repeat the same stuff. That's fine, you don't know. It appeared that you were trying to dismiss the possibility of Martin going to see some kind of professional to talk to. It's common knowledge that psychiatrists and psychologists have offices in hospital complexes so when someone goes to a "mental health facility" I don't think anyone thinks he's in a straight jacket or padded room.

 

[whoknew]

I've never felt so low as a fan of this team. When you hate the owner, GM, and losing faith in the coach, where does that leave you as a fan? I'm numb.

I like the quarterback. Its too bad he's so young that he really had no chance to stamp this out. There is definitely a leadership gap amongst the players on this team that allows this to happen. Can you imagine a Peyton Manning led team enduring something like this? A lot of analysts and commentators don't take the leadership factor seriously, but its no joke. This is what happens when there's no one in the room to draw the lines and keep people in check... the biggest psychopath takes advantage. NFL teams are fascinating in that you get to see how culture spreads from the top down, for better or worse.

Pioli agrees with you:

Link

Dan Patrick: Mike [Florio] mentioned Richie Incognito. Um, if he's your leader, one of your leaders, and whatever is a prank or bullying here, what do you think of that situation?

Scott Pioli: If he is a leader in your locker room, that is a problem, because he has a long history of issues going back to Nebraska, when he was kicked out of school. But, what this shows me is that there is some void of leadership somewhere within the Miami Dolphins locker room, because if there are issues like this, generally the head coach or the general manager is going to know something about this. They're going to be able to fix the problem before it manifests itself into this disaster they have right now.

Patrick: Would you want Richie Incognito in your locker room?

Pioli: I didn't want him coming out, and I don't want him now.

 

[mbuehner]

Can Tebow play guard?

 

[Sinn Fein]

Can Tebow play guard?

Maybe shooting guard.

 

[mbuehner]

Can Tebow play guard?

Maybe shooting guard.

Well certainly not point guard.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Dolphins are set on Tuesday to place Jonathan Martin on the non-football injury list and Martin himself does not believe he can return to the team ever again...

Well no #### Sherlock, I know this is gonna sound callous so I apologize but WTF did he think was gonna happen when he left the team and did all this?

It sounds like Miami is also taking a slightly stern approach with him as well as Incognito.

I guess we are supposed to support Martin and say he is brave? Am I capturing the mindset of some of our viewers and listeners out there?

Martin is basically being removed form the roster. Miami has to do it so they can go out and sign a few OL, wonder if there are any guys without jobs that will pass on this and say they want no part of.

 

[Native]

Wow. Getting worse. From CBS.

======

Among the texts that Jonathan Martin made available to his parents, and then, eventually the Dolphins and the NFL, include those in which Richie Incognito refers to Martin, who is biracial, as a "half-n*****," according to a source who was privy to the communication.

DOLPHINS HARASSMENT CASELatest updates from the Martin-Incognito situation
There are several instances of threats as well, the sources said, and overall disturbing exchanges, including one in which Incognito refers to defecating in Martin's mouth.

Incognito also made reference to tracking down members of Martin's family and harming them in the texts as well, according to a source.

In some instances, that kind of rhetoric might be shaken off or ignored, but, given the track record of incidents between Incognito and Martin, and how sustained it had become, Martin truly felt that Incognito might be capable of inflicting harm, and for his safety getting away from the team was in his best interests.

The NFL, apprised of the evidence, began upper-level meetings on the case this morning as it launches its investigation. People with access to some of the exchanges believe in time this situation could become a springboard for further policies and practices at the league-wide level in regards to hazing, verbal harassment and perhaps also stricter codes in terms of financial harassment and actions whereby rookies are required by veterans to pick up excessive tabs and bills as a rite of passage.

Incognoto made the choice easy for the team and the NFL. Holy hell.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I think we've left the world of "bullying" far behind. This sounds like some very serious adult issues here and this has been mischaracterized.

 

[flysack]

Harmless rookie hazing goes on in every team. I remember a couple years ago the Giant's rookies being pretty upfront about it. The first round pick had to bring coffee and donuts to every practice, the second round pick had to buy something else. Nobody thought it was out of line (I don't). Yankees rookies have to dress up as girls on a day that's announced to the media. Stuff like this is actually good team building routines if done with moderation - the prankers bond, the rookies show they can take a gag (i.e. they're not bigger than the team) and earn some respect from the vets, who went through it when they were rooks.

RIchie Incognito is the type of ##### that would take it too far. Such as encouraging everyone to make the rooks pay for entire meals at five star restaurants and leaving harassing texts and phone calls. That's not team building or harmless fun. That's screwing up your team chemistry. I'm pretty sure he's done from football for awhile. He may get a shot in a year or two as a backup somewhere, but considering most of the league hated him to begin with, I doubt any players will be thrilled to have him around after this. The guy just shot a potential playoff team in the foot because he couldn't be a good teammate.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Dolphins are set on Tuesday to place Jonathan Martin on the non-football injury list and Martin himself does not believe he can return to the team ever again...

Well no #### Sherlock, I know this is gonna sound callous so I apologize but WTF did he think was gonna happen when he left the team and did all this?

It sounds like Miami is also taking a slightly stern approach with him as well as Incognito.

I guess we are supposed to support Martin and say he is brave? Am I capturing the mindset of some of our viewers and listeners out there?

Martin is basically being removed form the roster. Miami has to do it so they can go out and sign a few OL, wonder if there are any guys without jobs that will pass on this and say they want no part of.

Regarding this:

Dolphins are set on Tuesday to place Jonathan Martin on the non-football injury list and Martin himself does not believe he can return to the team ever again...

Doesn't this require a diagnosis, ie an actual physical or mental "injury," of some kind?

 

[mbuehner]

I think we've left the world of "bullying" far behind. This sounds like some very serious adult issues here and this has been mischaracterized.

This. There appear to have been laws broken. Hell, there may be a RICO case here if anyone gave a ####.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I've never felt so low as a fan of this team. When you hate the owner, GM, and losing faith in the coach, where does that leave you as a fan? I'm numb.

I like the quarterback. Its too bad he's so young that he really had no chance to stamp this out. There is definitely a leadership gap amongst the players on this team that allows this to happen. Can you imagine a Peyton Manning led team enduring something like this? A lot of analysts and commentators don't take the leadership factor seriously, but its no joke. This is what happens when there's no one in the room to draw the lines and keep people in check... the biggest psychopath takes advantage. NFL teams are fascinating in that you get to see how culture spreads from the top down, for better or worse.

Pioli agrees with you:

Link

Dan Patrick: Mike [Florio] mentioned Richie Incognito. Um, if he's your leader, one of your leaders, and whatever is a prank or bullying here, what do you think of that situation?

Scott Pioli: If he is a leader in your locker room, that is a problem, because he has a long history of issues going back to Nebraska, when he was kicked out of school. But, what this shows me is that there is some void of leadership somewhere within the Miami Dolphins locker room, because if there are issues like this, generally the head coach or the general manager is going to know something about this. They're going to be able to fix the problem before it manifests itself into this disaster they have right now.

Patrick: Would you want Richie Incognito in your locker room?

Pioli: I didn't want him coming out, and I don't want him now.

That is amazing to read, really puts the blame on the FO/ownership

 

[The Duff Man]

From the report above, Incognito might be lucky Martin didnt really lose it and show up with a gun. You can only apply pressure for so long until something breaks.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Martin himself does not believe he can return to the team ever again...

Link to this?