Dolphin Players bullied Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito SUSPENDED (2 Viewers)

[Doug B]

Do you think Martin would be welcomed at a new team? You think any locker room is gonna want to play with him? I'm thinking no but maybe I am in the minority on this.

I really just think time heals. Martin might have a hard time getting on a team right this minute ... but next summer? It will be yesterday's news by then. Besides from that, I don't think Martin will have a rep for throwing teammates under the bus just for snoring. Some players will have a problem with what he did because of machismo and "the code", but other players will understand it differently.

I do think Martin would have a much easier time integrating into a strongly coach-driven team such as the Patriots, Saints, Giants, Chiefs, or Broncos (where P Manning is "the coach"). Where the top of the player hierarchy is not viewed internally as the last stop.

 

[Touchdown There]

If Incognito went that route he would be brought up on real charges for assault. If Martin duked it out in closed practices every time Incognito opened his mouth, none of this would be in the news right now.

Would you have hit him?

You may not be aware, but players throw fisticuffs in closed practices all the time. Yes, if I were Martin, I would have repeatedly taken care of it on the field until it stopped off the field.

No. Would YOU hit him, if he was bullying you?

So the situation you are imagining is that Ritchie Incognito comes into my work on a daily basis and bullies me, so I have to make the choice? Or, is the situation that I am another lineman for the Dolphins and have to deal with him daily? You can see the problem with your question now.

If he was bullying you, would you hit him? You are making a complex situation black and white, when suggesting your solution. Why can't you do the same while answering my question?

Pick one and then we can move on.

 

[Pearl Frumpkin]

If Incognito went that route he would be brought up on real charges for assault. If Martin duked it out in closed practices every time Incognito opened his mouth, none of this would be in the news right now.

Would you have hit him?

You may not be aware, but players throw fisticuffs in closed practices all the time. Yes, if I were Martin, I would have repeatedly taken care of it on the field until it stopped off the field.

No. Would YOU hit him, if he was bullying you?

So the situation you are imagining is that Ritchie Incognito comes into my work on a daily basis and bullies me, so I have to make the choice? Or, is the situation that I am another lineman for the Dolphins and have to deal with him daily? You can see the problem with your question now.

Lets all face it. Incognito would kick the living ##### of out Martin if they got in a fight. I don't care how big Martin is, he wouldn't stand a chance. There is no doubt about that.

So the question becomes if a guy that would beat you to a pulp bullied you every day would YOU start a fight?

Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't. But I would say that most people would not. They would probably just quit their job and find a new one.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

From the Philbin presser...

-Stephen Ross called Roger Goodell and asked for and asked for a review of the workplace.

-Philbin will give full and complete cooperation to the NFL

From MOP...

Does that sound like good leadership? It should have never gotten to that level. Philbin sounds like a guy who knows his fate is probably sealed. And Ross sounds like a complete buffoon who cannot manage the day to day operations of the Miami Dolphins.

I hope Goodell comes down on them like a bag of bricks. I can't believe anyone would say I was defending the culprits here. Ask any Dolphin fan who posts on these boards, check the Miami 2013 thread and read all of it, I have been nothing short of critical to the point I piss off the Phinsfans we do have here. But people read what they want to read. Earlier in the day and going back to last night the information has been coming out quicker than you can link it practically. Not sure why people here are so ready to jump on other posters.

 

[Concept Coop]

Pick one and then we can move on.

Done.

A) Of course not; I like to play tough behind a keyboard. In real life, I have no idea what I'd do, and would be in no position to judge anyone in said situation.

 

[Touchdown There]

At 6'5" and 315lbs you should be able to handle a bully..

How so? And why should size play a role?

It's funny how "punch a bully in the mouth" turns to "well, I mean, if you're the same size...".

It's funny how you think dealing with a bully on the football field is the same as dealing with a bully in real life.

 

[Touchdown There]

Pick one and then we can move on.

Done.

A) Of course not; I like to play tough behind a keyboard. In real life, I have no idea what I'd do, and would be in no position to judge anyone in said situation.

B) Yes, I would kick his dumb ### all over the place and it would not be the first time I tossed down with the pads on or off.

 

[Neofight]

Several GMs chimed in today behind the scenes and they did not think highly of how Martin handled this...I believe ESPN ran that story.

Incognito can just file his retirement papers but Martin may not ever wear a uniform again either. Done in Miami, but maybe the NFL as well.

Those same GM's likely went along with their ownership and the league in using the courtroom to resolve that pesky little problem of concussions,TBI and dementia suffered by dozens (I use this as an extremely conservative number, intentionally) to resolve their issues and save some money. Why should it come as a surprise to them if/when the tables are turned?

 

[Concept Coop]

It's funny how you think dealing with a bully on the football field is the same as dealing with a bully in real life.

It's funny how you cling to absolutes like NFL vs. Real life, as though there are only two situations in which bullying occurs.

And - remind me - how long did you play in the NFL for? I am asking so that I can properly weigh your claim.

 

[KCitons]

If Incognito went that route he would be brought up on real charges for assault. If Martin duked it out in closed practices every time Incognito opened his mouth, none of this would be in the news right now.

Would you have hit him?

You may not be aware, but players throw fisticuffs in closed practices all the time. Yes, if I were Martin, I would have repeatedly taken care of it on the field until it stopped off the field.

No. Would YOU hit him, if he was bullying you?

So the situation you are imagining is that Ritchie Incognito comes into my work on a daily basis and bullies me, so I have to make the choice? Or, is the situation that I am another lineman for the Dolphins and have to deal with him daily? You can see the problem with your question now.

Lets all face it. Incognito would kick the living ##### of out Martin if they got in a fight. I don't care how big Martin is, he wouldn't stand a chance. There is no doubt about that.

So the question becomes if a guy that would beat you to a pulp bullied you every day would YOU start a fight?

Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't. But I would say that most people would not. They would probably just quit their job and find a new one.

I'd drop a toaster in Incognito's ice bath when nobody was looking. And then run.

But again, I'm a chicken.

 

[Concept Coop]

B) Yes, I would kick his dumb ### all over the place and it would not be the first time I tossed down with the pads on or off.

 

[Neofight]

At 6'5" and 315lbs you should be able to handle a bully..

How so? And why should size play a role?

It's funny how "punch a bully in the mouth" turns to "well, I mean, if you're the same size...".

It's funny how you think dealing with a bully on the football field is the same as dealing with a bully in real life.

In the NFL football is a business, and in this country there is nothing more real than that.

 

[Native]

I can confirm that MOP hates the Dolphins as much, if not more, than any other Phins fan.

 

[Doug B]

I hope Goodell comes down on them like a bag of bricks. I can't believe anyone would say I was defending the culprits here.

Respectfully: you're vulnerable to this criticism because you've mentioned several times that you believe Martin has sunk his own NFL career. It's easy to read between the lines that you feel he deserves to be shunned by other NFL squads. It's reasonable to read your posts and come to the conclusion that you have disdain for Martin's actions. And that, in turn, suggests siding with Incognito and friends.

If that's not reflective of your actual take, of course, there's ample opportunity to make oneself clear. If I may: I see you riding the fence a bit, and perhaps thinking Incognito & buds were 100% wrong, but that Martin was something like 80% wrong. Just a stab on my part.

 

[Slapdash]

One thing that Philbin brought up in the presser - Incognito was voted to the "Leadership" thingy by his teammates.

This says a lot about how deep the problems are in Miami then...

 

[General Tso]

Dude, why do you insist over and over again in this thread on dragging Martin through the dirt? You just can't seem to help yourself I guess. You even posted rumors earlier about the guy's sexual orientation. Others have called you out on it but you still insist on doing it. Why don't you just accept the fact that your beloved Dolphins are a festering sore of an Organization and focus on how and why they allowed this type of thug atmosphere to pervade the clubhouse? Seriously.

Don't want to speak for MOP ... but I can understand having vitriol against the person perceived to have brought my team down, right/wrong be dam[n]ed. Felt that way about Gregg Williams at one time.

The guy who brought the team down was Incognito. To focus on the victim is at first strange, but then after it is done over and over, despite more evidence coming out that Martin probably did a good thing by exposing this thug-like behavior, it starts to resemble something almost sinister in nature. Read the entire thread and draw your own conclusion.

 

[nxmehta]

Pick one and then we can move on.

Done.

A) Of course not; I like to play tough behind a keyboard. In real life, I have no idea what I'd do, and would be in no position to judge anyone in said situation.

B) Yes, I would kick his dumb ### all over the place and it would not be the first time I tossed down with the pads on or off.

Congratulations, you are a victim blamer!

 

[RBM]

Dude, why do you insist over and over again in this thread on dragging Martin through the dirt? You just can't seem to help yourself I guess. You even posted rumors earlier about the guy's sexual orientation. Others have called you out on it but you still insist on doing it. Why don't you just accept the fact that your beloved Dolphins are a festering sore of an Organization and focus on how and why they allowed this type of thug atmosphere to pervade the clubhouse? Seriously.

Don't want to speak for MOP ... but I can understand having vitriol against the person perceived to have brought my team down, right/wrong be dam[n]ed. Felt that way about Gregg Williams at one time.

The guy who brought the team down was Incognito. To focus on the victim is at first strange, but then after it is done over and over, despite more evidence coming out that Martin probably did a good thing by exposing this thug-like behavior, it starts to resemble something almost sinister in nature. Read the entire thread and draw your own conclusion.

The only quotes we have from guys on the team have no issue with Incognito.

 

[KCitons]

Do we know if Martin tried to stand up to Incognito? Maybe he didn't do it physically, but tried to make it clear. I don't see Incognito taking constructive criticism well.

This would leave Martin feeling rather helpless. Didn't Rolando McClain come out this week and say he left the NFL because he was feeling like he wanted to kill someone?

just a thought.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I can confirm that MOP hates the Dolphins as much, if not more, than any other Phins fan.

 

[RBM]

At 6'5" and 315lbs you should be able to handle a bully..

How so? And why should size play a role?

It's funny how "punch a bully in the mouth" turns to "well, I mean, if you're the same size...".

You find that odd?

 

[Concept Coop]

At 6'5" and 315lbs you should be able to handle a bully..

How so? And why should size play a role?

It's funny how "punch a bully in the mouth" turns to "well, I mean, if you're the same size...".

You find that odd?

"Ha ha" funny.

 

[Neofight]

At 6'5" and 315lbs you should be able to handle a bully..

How so? And why should size play a role?

It's funny how "punch a bully in the mouth" turns to "well, I mean, if you're the same size...".

You find that odd?

Going out on a limb here, but I believe the use of the word funny indicates he finds it humorous.

ETA: he beat me to it.

 

[RBM]

If Incognito went that route he would be brought up on real charges for assault. If Martin duked it out in closed practices every time Incognito opened his mouth, none of this would be in the news right now.

Would you have hit him?

You may not be aware, but players throw fisticuffs in closed practices all the time. Yes, if I were Martin, I would have repeatedly taken care of it on the field until it stopped off the field.

No. Would YOU hit him, if he was bullying you?

So the situation you are imagining is that Ritchie Incognito comes into my work on a daily basis and bullies me, so I have to make the choice? Or, is the situation that I am another lineman for the Dolphins and have to deal with him daily? You can see the problem with your question now.

Lets all face it. Incognito would kick the living ##### of out Martin if they got in a fight. I don't care how big Martin is, he wouldn't stand a chance. There is no doubt about that.

Why are you so sure of this? Incognito might turn into a ##### when a guy bigger than him steps up. We have no idea.

 

[drummer]

B) Yes, I would kick his dumb ### all over the place and it would not be the first time I tossed down with the pads on or off.

 

[KCitons]

If Incognito went that route he would be brought up on real charges for assault. If Martin duked it out in closed practices every time Incognito opened his mouth, none of this would be in the news right now.

Would you have hit him?

You may not be aware, but players throw fisticuffs in closed practices all the time. Yes, if I were Martin, I would have repeatedly taken care of it on the field until it stopped off the field.

No. Would YOU hit him, if he was bullying you?

So the situation you are imagining is that Ritchie Incognito comes into my work on a daily basis and bullies me, so I have to make the choice? Or, is the situation that I am another lineman for the Dolphins and have to deal with him daily? You can see the problem with your question now.

Lets all face it. Incognito would kick the living ##### of out Martin if they got in a fight. I don't care how big Martin is, he wouldn't stand a chance. There is no doubt about that.

Why are you so sure of this? Incognito might turn into a ##### when a guy bigger than him steps up. We have no idea.

Because. To use an analogy from earlier, if size mattered Ralphie wouldn't have been able to beat up Skut Farkus. Skut was bigger, stronger, and had a better 40 time. But Ralphie whooped him.

So, it doesn't matter if Martin is bigger than Incognito. The theory that good wins over evil regardless of size only applies to movies.

 

[Touchdown There]

At 6'5" and 315lbs you should be able to handle a bully..

How so? And why should size play a role?

It's funny how "punch a bully in the mouth" turns to "well, I mean, if you're the same size...".

You find that odd?

"Ha ha" funny.

Haha funny with no relevance. The question has nothing to do with "what would you do?" The question is what should Martin have done. If you bust a guy in his jaw every single day of practice, coaches will eventually sit you both down to let you know that the game is over. Then you move on like brothers and the issue is in the past. Coop can't seem to grab that "Concept".

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I hope Goodell comes down on them like a bag of bricks. I can't believe anyone would say I was defending the culprits here.

Respectfully: you're vulnerable to this criticism because you've mentioned several times that you believe Martin has sunk his own NFL career. It's easy to read between the lines that you feel he deserves to be shunned by other NFL squads. It's reasonable to read your posts and come to the conclusion that you have disdain for Martin's actions. And that, in turn, suggests siding with Incognito and friends.

If that's not reflective of your actual take, of course, there's ample opportunity to make oneself clear. If I may: I see you riding the fence a bit, and perhaps thinking Incognito & buds were 100% wrong, but that Martin was something like 80% wrong. Just a stab on my part.

I believe that is partially true but not without merit from him reacting to the torment from Incognito...I also have a big problem with "Big Weirdo" and I do admit that without the helmet on Martin is a bit goofy looking but to repeatedly call him that instead of say "gentle giant" and I realize that's hokie but "Big Weirdo" would get on your last nerve I don't care what your relationship with someone.

I get irritated when folks call me crazy on here and that's just one instance on post by a faceless poster, imagine being called Big Weirdo on a daily basis.

Incognito was wrong wrong wrong for doing much of this and clearly he thought he could pick on Martin and seemed to get joy out of doing so. What I don't want is people to assume I think we need to make wholesale changes in the NFL.

 

[LittlePhatty]

Can't wait for the Hollywood movie version. With a name like Incognito, I bet someone's already working on a script. Spoiler: they all shake hands and become buddies at the end, having learned valuable lessons.

 

[General Tso]

Dude, why do you insist over and over again in this thread on dragging Martin through the dirt? You just can't seem to help yourself I guess. You even posted rumors earlier about the guy's sexual orientation. Others have called you out on it but you still insist on doing it. Why don't you just accept the fact that your beloved Dolphins are a festering sore of an Organization and focus on how and why they allowed this type of thug atmosphere to pervade the clubhouse? Seriously.

Don't want to speak for MOP ... but I can understand having vitriol against the person perceived to have brought my team down, right/wrong be dam[n]ed. Felt that way about Gregg Williams at one time.

The guy who brought the team down was Incognito. To focus on the victim is at first strange, but then after it is done over and over, despite more evidence coming out that Martin probably did a good thing by exposing this thug-like behavior, it starts to resemble something almost sinister in nature. Read the entire thread and draw your own conclusion.

The only quotes we have from guys on the team have no issue with Incognito.

What about all the other evidence against Incognito?

 

[KCitons]

Can't wait for the Hollywood movie version. With a name like Incognito, I bet someone's already working on a script. Spoiler: they all shake hands and become buddies at the end, having learned valuable lessons.

As someone pointed out Chris Farley and John Candy are both dead, so not sure who will play Incognito.

 

[General Tso]

Can't wait for the Hollywood movie version. With a name like Incognito, I bet someone's already working on a script. Spoiler: they all shake hands and become buddies at the end, having learned valuable lessons.

As someone pointed out Chris Farley and John Candy are both dead, so not sure who will play Incognito.

Jarod Remy

 

[Neofight]

At 6'5" and 315lbs you should be able to handle a bully..

How so? And why should size play a role?

It's funny how "punch a bully in the mouth" turns to "well, I mean, if you're the same size...".

You find that odd?

"Ha ha" funny.

Haha funny with no relevance. The question has nothing to do with "what would you do?" The question is what should Martin have done. If you bust a guy in his jaw every single day of practice, coaches will eventually sit you both down to let you know that the game is over. Then you move on like brothers and the issue is in the past. Coop can't seem to grab that "Concept".

Or you could just go Harding on the knee. That'd show him.

 

[RBM]

If Incognito went that route he would be brought up on real charges for assault. If Martin duked it out in closed practices every time Incognito opened his mouth, none of this would be in the news right now.

Would you have hit him?

You may not be aware, but players throw fisticuffs in closed practices all the time. Yes, if I were Martin, I would have repeatedly taken care of it on the field until it stopped off the field.

No. Would YOU hit him, if he was bullying you?

So the situation you are imagining is that Ritchie Incognito comes into my work on a daily basis and bullies me, so I have to make the choice? Or, is the situation that I am another lineman for the Dolphins and have to deal with him daily? You can see the problem with your question now.

Lets all face it. Incognito would kick the living ##### of out Martin if they got in a fight. I don't care how big Martin is, he wouldn't stand a chance. There is no doubt about that.

Why are you so sure of this? Incognito might turn into a ##### when a guy bigger than him steps up. We have no idea.

Because. To use an analogy from earlier, if size mattered Ralphie wouldn't have been able to beat up Skut Farkus. Skut was bigger, stronger, and had a better 40 time. But Ralphie whooped him.So, it doesn't matter if Martin is bigger than Incognito. The theory that good wins over evil regardless of size only applies to movies.

We have no clue what would happen.

 

[wazoo11]

I always had a feeling Incognito was actually Posty.

 

[Native]

The part I find most interesting is the time line. From what I can gather the abusive text messages nd VMs occurred in April. Not sure about the Vegas trip. Yet the straw that broke the camels back seems to have been the lunchroom prank. In between the two seemed to be on OK terms, hanging out and even pranking others (the Josh Samuda incident stands out).

So my question is has the abusive bullying/threats persisted or is this now coming up as evidence

 

[Concept Coop]

Haha funny with no relevance. The question has nothing to do with "what would you do?" The question is what should Martin have done. If you bust a guy in his jaw every single day of practice, coaches will eventually sit you both down to let you know that the game is over. Then you move on like brothers and the issue is in the past. Coop can't seem to grab that "Concept".

The guy thought Incognito was capable of hurting him and his family. This isn't as black and white as you want to make it. Likely, he was also worried about what would happen if he crossed one of the "team leaders", and what that might due to his career.

 

[KCitons]

If Incognito went that route he would be brought up on real charges for assault. If Martin duked it out in closed practices every time Incognito opened his mouth, none of this would be in the news right now.

Would you have hit him?

You may not be aware, but players throw fisticuffs in closed practices all the time. Yes, if I were Martin, I would have repeatedly taken care of it on the field until it stopped off the field.

No. Would YOU hit him, if he was bullying you?

So the situation you are imagining is that Ritchie Incognito comes into my work on a daily basis and bullies me, so I have to make the choice? Or, is the situation that I am another lineman for the Dolphins and have to deal with him daily? You can see the problem with your question now.

Lets all face it. Incognito would kick the living ##### of out Martin if they got in a fight. I don't care how big Martin is, he wouldn't stand a chance. There is no doubt about that.

Why are you so sure of this? Incognito might turn into a ##### when a guy bigger than him steps up. We have no idea.

Because. To use an analogy from earlier, if size mattered Ralphie wouldn't have been able to beat up Skut Farkus. Skut was bigger, stronger, and had a better 40 time. But Ralphie whooped him.So, it doesn't matter if Martin is bigger than Incognito. The theory that good wins over evil regardless of size only applies to movies.

We have no clue what would happen.

Yet you keep saying that Martin should have stood up for himself.

 

[KCitons]

Can't wait for the Hollywood movie version. With a name like Incognito, I bet someone's already working on a script. Spoiler: they all shake hands and become buddies at the end, having learned valuable lessons.

As someone pointed out Chris Farley and John Candy are both dead, so not sure who will play Incognito.

Jarod Remy

He's busy.

 

[fatness]

• Mike Ditka: 'If Incognito did it he should be kicked out of the league'

Interesting that he would chime in, as this well-publicized hazing incident happened in New Orleans under his watch. To be fair, Ditka denounced the hazing immediately and cut the perpetrator from the squad.

"To be fair"?? The fact that Ditka took immediate is exactly the point, and the relevant reason for him to voice opinion here, isn't it?

I think that's one of the points. The other is that Ditka is a famous "tough guy", and his opinion puts him at odds with the handful of "tough guys" in this topic.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Jim Trotter is the source of those nameless GMs...

"Said one personnel man (who's not alone): "Instead of being a man and confronting him, (Martin) acted like a coward and told like a kid."

 

[RBM]

Dude, why do you insist over and over again in this thread on dragging Martin through the dirt? You just can't seem to help yourself I guess. You even posted rumors earlier about the guy's sexual orientation. Others have called you out on it but you still insist on doing it. Why don't you just accept the fact that your beloved Dolphins are a festering sore of an Organization and focus on how and why they allowed this type of thug atmosphere to pervade the clubhouse? Seriously.

Don't want to speak for MOP ... but I can understand having vitriol against the person perceived to have brought my team down, right/wrong be dam[n]ed. Felt that way about Gregg Williams at one time.

The guy who brought the team down was Incognito. To focus on the victim is at first strange, but then after it is done over and over, despite more evidence coming out that Martin probably did a good thing by exposing this thug-like behavior, it starts to resemble something almost sinister in nature. Read the entire thread and draw your own conclusion.

The only quotes we have from guys on the team have no issue with Incognito.

What about all the other evidence against Incognito?

Doesn't matter. Only thing that matters is what his teammates think when it comes down to it.

You and I can think he's a lowlife sack of crap, but if the other guys have no issues with him and are willing to suit up with him weekly then he has not brought the team down.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Jason Whitlock also said some hair raising stuff today

 

[Neofight]

Jim Trotter is the source of those nameless GMs...

"Said one personnel man (who's not alone): "Instead of being a man and confronting him, (Martin) acted like a coward and told like a kid."

Said like an entitled man with a problem on his hands.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP 37m

Rookie CB Will Davis said rookies aren't forced to pay for veterans and can say no.

Retweeted by Kevin Nogle
Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP 37m

Dolphins players backed Richie Incognito. Many of them seemed upset that he is gone and they don't seem to think it was warranted.

Retweeted by Kevin Nogle

Jeff Darlington ‏@JeffDarlington 45m Cam Wake says he was fine w/ Incognito but has line of the day: "You'd have to ask every guy individually. I can't speak for everyone else."

Retweeted by Kevin Nogle

 

[Concept Coop]

Jim Trotter is the source of those nameless GMs...

"Said one personnel man (who's not alone): "Instead of being a man and confronting him, (Martin) acted like a coward and told like a kid."

"He's a coward!! Don't use my name, please."

 

[Ministry of Pain]

More Trotter...

"interesting that of the half dozen personnel people/players i've spoken with, all feel martin should've handled this man to man."

 

[RBM]

Jim Trotter is the source of those nameless GMs...

"Said one personnel man (who's not alone): "Instead of being a man and confronting him, (Martin) acted like a coward and told like a kid."

That's not going to go over well with the "new 2013 brand" of dudes posting in here. Lots of guys watching The View too much these days.

 

[drummer]

Jim Trotter is the source of those nameless GMs...

"Said one personnel man (who's not alone): "Instead of being a man and confronting him, (Martin) acted like a coward and told like a kid."

"new 2013 brand" of dudes

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Jim Trotter is the source of those nameless GMs...

"Said one personnel man (who's not alone): "Instead of being a man and confronting him, (Martin) acted like a coward and told like a kid."

That's not going to go over well with the "new 2013 brand" of dudes posting in here. Lots of guys watching The View too much these days.

Over/under on how many posts before someone calls MOP a "victim blamer"?