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Dolphin Players bullied Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito SUSPENDED (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter KellysHeroes
- Start date
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I'm kind of new to the whole story--anyone find it weird/odd that Martin still has a voicemail from April?
G
General Tso
Guest
That's just it. You never know these days who is poop crazy and who is nine crazy. I know people who were close to Aaron Hernandez and are shocked to this day that the dude was actually a murderer. Like someone said earlier in this thread, the days of settling things like men are over. Too many lunatics out there and too much access to guns.Wrong kind of crazy. Not like he will grab a nine and go gangsta. More like he will wipe his poop all over your locker.I wonder if Oden Lloyd ever had thoughts like this. Or Jarod Remy's wife. Or Nicole Simpson.Like my dad always taught me, you can't fight Crazy.Oh lord. Beat him up? Is this third grade? You would be lucky to get five or ten swings in before the team separates you. Then the coaches chide the both of you in front of everyone. No one learns anything. Rinse and repeat about ten times before the coaches call you both into an office to have a chat. In that chat you play the recording of his racist vm and let it be known you are no longer a rookie and will not be tolerating Incognitos #### anymore.Problem solved.Ministry of Pain said:@ the assumption that "man to man" still exists in today's age. If he beats Incognito and/or Pouncey up? It is not unreasonable to assume Pouncey would follow his buddy AHern's lead and come back with semi-automatic pistols.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Not if it sounded like that. I've got one saved from a guy who threatened me 1 year ago. If he ever shows up again, I'm recording everything.
jurb26
Footballguy
Absolutely not. He was smart to start compiling evidence then. All this does is make me wonder how much more evidence he has we don't know about.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Would this guy be smiling with you in pictures and carpooling with you as well?
Admittedly I don't know a lot about this story but something doesn't seem right. Any Dolphins coming out defending Martin at all?
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Martin own Twitter page
https://twitter.com/J_Martin71
-
Jonathan A. Martin @J_Martin7128 Oct
Gonna attack this Monday with EUTM
https://twitter.com/J_Martin71
mr roboto
Footballguy
We used to be friends. He got fresh with my wife when he got drunk one night. My wife told him to back off but he wasn't going to. I pushed him down, he got up to fight, but fell down again because he was so drunk. Next day I text that he has to apologize to my wife. He tells me to F off. Then he starts to stalk my wife on Facebook. Nothing criminal but really weird. I email him and make it clear he is never to contact either of us again. He calls me and left one of the most hateful and threatening voicemails you could imagine.
So yes, you could find pictures of us golfing, drinking, hanging out at friends' weddings etc. But it doesn't always stay that way.
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RBM
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
NFL lineman on the same team compiling evidence on each other? This is like Tobias Beecher compiling evidence on Vern Sillinger.
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gethugefast1
Footballguy
Jonathan Martin graduated from Stanford and his parents are both lawyers... this should be a doozy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Trotter on SI
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20131104/nfl-personnel-question-jonathan-martin-richie-incognito/
More on what was brought up earlier but folks were begging for links.
Whitlock really laid into the Miami Dolphins beat writers. I always say Miami is a pretty laid back environment, journalists here typically do not rock the boat but Selgeuro has been honest about this IMO and is asking good questions.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20131104/nfl-personnel-question-jonathan-martin-richie-incognito/
More on what was brought up earlier but folks were begging for links.
Whitlock really laid into the Miami Dolphins beat writers. I always say Miami is a pretty laid back environment, journalists here typically do not rock the boat but Selgeuro has been honest about this IMO and is asking good questions.
fatness
Footballguy
I learned from that article that NFL football is "testosterone driven" (shocker) and that to impress an "NFL personnel man" a player should be expert at fighting drunks.
I feel dumber after reading that.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Just get the feeling that martin isn't as pure as the driven snow as the media is currently trying to portray for their story.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
If Harvard gave athletic scholarships his would have been the first african american family with four generations of Harvard grads.
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eurotrashman
Footballguy
Why is this 19 pages??
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
don't get me wrong, i think incognito is probably a real humanitarian when not leaving racially charged death threats and threatening to assult family members...
possibly one of the few ACTIVE players to be a teammate of incognito's both at nebraska and in the NFL (with STL), NYG K josh brown, was not surprised by the news, and mentioned he had "demons". probably he can just be dismissed as a nancy boy, though...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/04/josh-brown-unsurprised-about-richie-incognito-allegations/
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Dizzy
Footballguy
Mort just reported that the Dolphins can't cut him (Incognito) because they would have to pay him his full contract value under the CBA. 4-game suspension is max penalty ($1.7 mil) for conduct detrimental... then he's back on the payroll.
Hard to believe there are no cancellation clauses in these contracts for extreme measures.
Hard to believe there are no cancellation clauses in these contracts for extreme measures.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
you mean, like he deserved the racial slurs and death threats?
i don't get demonizing martin?
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
yeah, thats what i said. is this the place where anyone questioning the medias portrayal of the story is demonized? i know i always pal around with people who i fear for my life from.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I think we may be reading the VM differently.jah77 said:
GregR
Footballguy
There are people who may say stuff to each other like what was in the voicemail, and not mean anything by it. Or it could be one guy means nothing by it but the people around him don't take it that way. Or it could be that it was meant in open malice.
I can't really say. With that uncertainty, it might be the lesser part of it for me. If he's bullying someone into paying $15k for others to go on a trip, and $100k over the full time Martin was on the team as alleged, that's a major issue, voicemail or not. If it comes to light that didn't happen, great. At the moment I'd give Martin the benefit of the doubt as there are reports of others who are alleging the same kind of abuse of the usual "rookies pay" hazing. There's the defensive player that the Miami Herald reported was heading towards going broke from it, the radio interview of Incognito himself saying he made a rookie pay for jet skis, and then "multiple other sources" in the Miami Herald story that rookies were basically paying for the veteran's nightlife. If it's more than paying for a team dinner that is reasonable by these standards, I think it's an issue. Regardless of how the voicemail was meant. If he's feeling pressured to pay exorbitant amounts in order to be able to have a normal chance on the job, that's gone way across the line.
I can't really say. With that uncertainty, it might be the lesser part of it for me. If he's bullying someone into paying $15k for others to go on a trip, and $100k over the full time Martin was on the team as alleged, that's a major issue, voicemail or not. If it comes to light that didn't happen, great. At the moment I'd give Martin the benefit of the doubt as there are reports of others who are alleging the same kind of abuse of the usual "rookies pay" hazing. There's the defensive player that the Miami Herald reported was heading towards going broke from it, the radio interview of Incognito himself saying he made a rookie pay for jet skis, and then "multiple other sources" in the Miami Herald story that rookies were basically paying for the veteran's nightlife. If it's more than paying for a team dinner that is reasonable by these standards, I think it's an issue. Regardless of how the voicemail was meant. If he's feeling pressured to pay exorbitant amounts in order to be able to have a normal chance on the job, that's gone way across the line.
mr roboto
Footballguy
All this crap I keep hearing about 'NFL locker rooms are different, you don't understand' really pisses me off. Really? It's like a frat house with multi millionaires and they are expected to handle conflict like they are in prison? Being tough on the field gives you no right to act like a barbarian to your own team.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Hey Bob, I can't speak for FB nor do I have to but I think what he means and I have eluded to and also Dan LeBatard today was that we might get more facts in the next few days.
Only 2 things are different about this story because many folks in the media and NFL teams have said this runs rampant but 2 things happened here that have never happened before.
1. Martin fled the scene...or left however you want to say it.
2. Details Details Details were leaked like no tomorrow. The cell phone call, text messages, racial epitaphs, etc...those details were strategically put out there on the internet.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
In my 35 years I've probably said it close to a million times in a not serious way.jah77 said:Maybe...I don't know. I've had some brutal ball busters in my life who've talked major trash but no one ever threated to kill me as a joke. But maybe that's what all the cool kids are doing these days?
HellToupee
Footballguy
Neofight
Footballguy
It really doesn't matter what you do or do not do; your life is in a completely different context from the lavish, excessive and often violent lifestyle of NFL players. Odin Lloyd and Kasandra Perkins had close relationships with their killers. Maybe, just maybe, Martin saw something headed in that direction. What would you do in that position, start a pissing match with someone who clearly isn't stable?
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Go to a football practice at any college level or your pro ones when they're open to the public.
Some "jobs" require a different resume.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
That would be Tannehill and LeBatard did the interview, played it again on his show today a couple times, it is pretty telling of the mindset for Incognito and Pouncey. DL asked them is if they shouldn't let Tannehill decide what he wants to buy them and Incognito said "Let me tell you how this works" and then he says basically they go to the store, pick out what they want and THill pays for it, end of story. It was shocking to listen to today now that these details have surfaced.
I get this...but it also seems like one of those situations that is tailor-made for a roster exemption so the Dolphins aren't hamstrung for four weeks on the roster.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Comparing what happens in the NFL to our desk jockey jobs is pointless. They play a game few if any of us could ever do professionally. You're applying your life to their lives and the two are very different and are not good for trying to make comparisons.
Please don't be offended Roboto, I'm not defending the Phins or Incognito and if you read the thread I have said more than a few times Incognito is a complete POS but to act naive about what happens n NFL locker rooms won't help anything.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
You should be more vague, because then you'll look like you REALLY know what you are talking about.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
I never equated my workplace to theirs. And I'm certainly not naive about how it is in the locker room. But basic human decorum and civility are still a prerequisite for being a good team player in any organization. Making a rookie carry pads? Fine. Pick up dinner or be the DD for the veterans? Fine. Pranked? Fine. But lets not pretend like there is something truly special about what they do that requires us to suspend basic expectations of conduct.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
pointing out that you may be demonizing somebody isn't demonizing you... it is just pointing out that you may be demonizing somebody...
it just seems to defy common sense.
his own team, after consultation with the league, have suspended incognito for conduct... not pending further investigation, but immediately... reports are that he is done with the dophins... there is reportedly evidence of death threats and racial slurs...
do you think this is media spin, and story portrayal, and everybody, including the team and league officials are making it up to frame somebody who is actually a kind, thoughtful, compassionate, sensitive individual who is just misunderstood?
and instead of taking the face value explanation that martin may have found the workplace toxic (not to mention harmful to his paycheck), and taken threats seriously because, i don't know, maybe incognito might actually be psycho, there are repeated insinuations that martin is some kind of bad guy... what are we supposed to think, that this was all calculated and orchestrated according to nefarious, sinister motives?
if we have a pretty good idea of what incognito did (team and league took it seriously enough to suspend him immediately), and aren't mind readers and can only speculate about martin's motives, and you weigh what you know (with what you don't know and are speculating about), and incognito's offenses seem to be worse (racial slurs, death threats) than martin's, why keep emphasizing how martin COULD be a bad guy? that sounds like more of a spin than the media...
elsewhere in the thread, there were plausible explanations why they car pooled... he DIDN'T go to vegas despite being extorted, so that doesn't sound pal-like... like somebody said, before getting a divorce, tina turner stayed with ike turner despite being repeatedly beaten by him... not too many people think she enjoyed being beaten... but you might have interpreted photos from the time that looked like they were "pals".
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
hey MoP,
1) fled one way to characterize it. not wanting to be murdered and have family assaulted maybe another. latter may seem far fetched, but imo post-hernandez possible triple homicide case, death threats may have a different complexion and tenor than before... also ask yourself, is it POSSIBLE, a reasonable person might think incognito has a screw loose for reals, and could be capable of some kind of reprisal down the road to "get even"... by putting it out there, it may well make future issues less likely (incognito isn't on team anymore, so mission accomplished there)...
2) it sounds like there were media reports that team AND league officials saw/heard evidence of racial slurs and death threats... so the "leaks" could have come from martin's camp, team or league... by more or less challenging martin and reporters like schefter that they were slanderous accusations (is it slander to accuse a reporter of slander when they are telling the truth, when accurate reporting is sort of their livlihood?), and ratcheting up the defiance, this may have led to a situation where schefter was highly motivated to find sources, and/or martin was in a position of having to clear HIS name as quickly as possible, and not let accusations by incognito that everything was a lie go unchecked... it would be adding insult to injury to not only harrass, extort and threaten somebody... but than accuse them of slander. i get why incognito might do this, especially if he was lying, but just trying to suggest that bringing more ammo and sooner than later to clear martin and/or schefter's name/s, was a possibility once incognito escalated the rhetoric in twitter and social media?
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
My guess as to what happened here is that Martin put up with routine hazing from Incognito. At some point Incognito went to far and Martin went to management. When management blew Martin off, being a presumably smart guy with two lawyer parents took on a "well that is gonna cost you" attitude.
At that point he started documenting everything for the better part of a year and probably goaded Incognito into bolder action. Now he has what he needs to drill people that don't know how to behave in Incognito and and the Dolphins who failed to address it.
Smart guys don't slug people, hurt their hands and then get them selves fined. They hurt people for real. Cost them their jobs and then get paid for exacting revenge.
It's what I did when my boss was banging a co worker and I had to do all her work so they could go #### on their 3 hour lunch, then he gives me a poor raise because I couldn't do her and my work. Middle management blew me off saying that this guy would never do that. It doesn't take long to gather evidence and give people the rope to hang them selves if you are trying to hang them, then blow things up.
For all the guys saying to punch the person in stronger position who has management backing so you are not a #####, what Martin is doing is laying the ultimate beatdown on Incognito and the Dolphins, whatever they did to Martin he is ####### them up 100 times worse now.
At that point he started documenting everything for the better part of a year and probably goaded Incognito into bolder action. Now he has what he needs to drill people that don't know how to behave in Incognito and and the Dolphins who failed to address it.
Smart guys don't slug people, hurt their hands and then get them selves fined. They hurt people for real. Cost them their jobs and then get paid for exacting revenge.
It's what I did when my boss was banging a co worker and I had to do all her work so they could go #### on their 3 hour lunch, then he gives me a poor raise because I couldn't do her and my work. Middle management blew me off saying that this guy would never do that. It doesn't take long to gather evidence and give people the rope to hang them selves if you are trying to hang them, then blow things up.
For all the guys saying to punch the person in stronger position who has management backing so you are not a #####, what Martin is doing is laying the ultimate beatdown on Incognito and the Dolphins, whatever they did to Martin he is ####### them up 100 times worse now.
FallenHero32
Footballguy
This. It's going to come down to a federal lawsuit. At this point, the dolphins are in damage control mode and they know it. Martin has them by the balls.
"You have posted more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text"
So, I will just summarize my many responses to this thread:
1) Social/emotional bullying is as, if not more, harmful than physical bullying. This has been shown time and again in the research literature on bullying
2) Lots of (implicit/explicit) condoning of bullying in this thread. Lots of victim blaming as well. Some really disgusting examples.
3) Resorting to physical violence should never be seen as the appropriate response to being bullied. No one should be put in the position that they need to expose themselves to harming or being harmed just because they are the victim of bullying. Unfortunately, because of people not recognizing #1 and because of #2, people who are bullied often feel they have no recourse but to resort to fighting back -- at which point they often face consequences (e.g., physical assault charge, being suspended/expelled from school, etc.)
4) Martin was being bullied by a GROUP of large guys with thug connections -- #3 doesn't sound so hot in that context, does it?
5) The comment about preferring the bully to the "rat" and the whole discourse around viewing whistleblowers as "rats" is just a disgusting commentary on the state of society.
6) +1 to the comments that being "a man" doesn't have to equate to pounding your chest and punching people.
So, I will just summarize my many responses to this thread:
1) Social/emotional bullying is as, if not more, harmful than physical bullying. This has been shown time and again in the research literature on bullying
2) Lots of (implicit/explicit) condoning of bullying in this thread. Lots of victim blaming as well. Some really disgusting examples.
3) Resorting to physical violence should never be seen as the appropriate response to being bullied. No one should be put in the position that they need to expose themselves to harming or being harmed just because they are the victim of bullying. Unfortunately, because of people not recognizing #1 and because of #2, people who are bullied often feel they have no recourse but to resort to fighting back -- at which point they often face consequences (e.g., physical assault charge, being suspended/expelled from school, etc.)
4) Martin was being bullied by a GROUP of large guys with thug connections -- #3 doesn't sound so hot in that context, does it?
5) The comment about preferring the bully to the "rat" and the whole discourse around viewing whistleblowers as "rats" is just a disgusting commentary on the state of society.
6) +1 to the comments that being "a man" doesn't have to equate to pounding your chest and punching people.
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"Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of s---. I saw you on Twitter, you been training 10 weeks. [i want to] s--- in your f---ing mouth. [i'm going to] slap your f---ing mouth. [i'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]. F--- you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."
[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]Interpretation of caveman-redneck speak:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]What's up bro? Saw you on twitter, you've been training for 10 weeks. You looking like a beast. But I still got you rookie. I'm going to show you how it's done when camp starts.[/SIZE]
Incognito seems like a jerkoff. But a death threat? Give me a break.
[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]Interpretation of caveman-redneck speak:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]What's up bro? Saw you on twitter, you've been training for 10 weeks. You looking like a beast. But I still got you rookie. I'm going to show you how it's done when camp starts.[/SIZE]
Incognito seems like a jerkoff. But a death threat? Give me a break.
