Donovan McNabb a sure thing HOF? (1 Viewer)

[Wadsworth]

This thread has gotten boring, can we talk about Hines Ward for the HoF for the 24th time instead?

 

[cobalt_27]

:IBTL:

 

[Tau837]

Looking at the last ten years at QB's who will make the HOF and you get names like: Manning Brady Brees Rogers And others who are highly likely: Warner Big Ben I just don't see McNabb as having the Resume to match the above

QBs who played within the last 10 years who are HOF locks: Favre, Warner, Peyton Manning, Brady, Brees. Rodgers and Roethlisberger are very close. McNabb doesn't come close to measuring up to that group.

 

[Tau837]

He will get in as he is the first kinda/sorta successful black quarterback.

Ever hear of Warren Moon?

 

[Sea Duck]

He will get in as he is the first kinda/sorta successful black quarterback.

Ever hear of Warren Moon?

Moon won less than 50% of his starts (including the playoffs) and never played in a Super Bowl. I think that's what Snook meant by McNabb being "sorta successful".

 

[cobalt_27]

He will get in as he is the first kinda/sorta successful black quarterback.

Ever hear of Warren Moon?

Moon won less than 50% of his starts (including the playoffs) and never played in a Super Bowl. I think that's what Snook meant by McNabb being "sorta successful".

Nevertheless, Moon was sorta successful by a longshot. Sheesh.

 

[Chaka]

This thread has gotten boring, can we talk about Hines Ward for the HoF for the 24th time instead?

I'm driving the Willie McGinest HoF bandwagon.

 

[Chaka]

because Namath is a HOFer so should McNabb.

Namath - 173 TDs 220 INTs - 50 CMP% - 27,663 yards

McNabb - 234 TDs 117 INTs - 59 CMP% - 37,276 yards

once you realize how low the bar is just about any QB belongs in the HOF.

I hope this post is fishing. Comparing numbers across such completely different eras is invalid. Furthermore, each player should be judged on his own merits and in comparison to his peers and his own era. The "player X is in, and player Y has better stats, so player Y should be in" is one of the worst ways to assess candidates; prevalent use of this method is a big reason why the baseball HOF is so diluted.

Its insulting that Namath is in the HOF. no one with 50 more INTs than TDs should be in the HOF regardless of era.my point is that the NFL HOF is a joke. Joe Namath was a bad QB, so if a bad QB is good enough to be in the hall then any one better then bad belongs. and McNabb is better then bad, so he belongs.

im not fishing, the NFL HOF is fishing by making Namath a member. and they are making my point valid.

http://www.pro-footb...om/blog/?p=6003HTH.

Oh ok then that settles it, LOL.any way 62 wins, 63 losses and 4 ties.

A .501 career completion percentage, QB rating 65.46. he averaged 10 games a year throughout a 13-year career.

When you look at his career stats and compare them to other Hall of Famers or future Hall of Famers, it becomes apparent that Joe Namath is the worst player in the NFL’s Hall of Fame. Namath rarely, if ever, threw the ball effectively. Jurgensen, Starr, Dawson all threw more TDs than INTs.

65.46 career passer rating for Namath that's 24th among Dead Ball Era quarterbacks, well below the efficiency of Dead Ball Era QBs that nobody considers Hall of Fame players, such as Frank Ryan (77.61), Don Meredith (74.84) and Roman Gabriel (74.29), among many others.

Namath is bad. I'm a bears fan I know bad QBs.

Your argument suggests you didn't read the link.

 

[Faust]

Donovan McNabb believes he's a Hall of Famer

By Gregg Rosenthal NFL.com

Around The League editor

Donovan McNabb has quickly fallen from an upper-tier NFL quarterback to a man without a job discussing his legacy. Yes, it's time to start the McNabb Hall of Fame debate.

First up in the discussion: Donovan McNabb.

"What happens a lot of times is we look at what the list says, so we talk about the five NFC Championship Games, the six Pro Bowls and then we come to the end, 'Well, he never won the big game,' " McNabb told Mark Kriegel of FoxSports.com, via the Philadelphia Daily News. Well, Peyton never won the big game until he won the Super Bowl. Dan Marino never won the big game. Does that mean his career is a failure? No, not at all."

Kriegel started the discussion by saying there would be "no debate" whether or not McNabb was a Hall of Famer if he had a title. McNabb was asked what makes a Hall of Famer:

"First of all is his numbers. How many times has he led his team to the big game?" McNabb said "The big game still is the NFC Championship Game, the game to lead you there, and most importantly of all, did he make the players around him better? In his time, in his era, was he a top-five, top-10 quarterback in the league?"

McNabb said he'd "absolutely" vote for himself to be in the Hall of Fame, which is a comment that will be mocked in Philadelphia. We don't think it's that crazy.

McNabb was a top-five quarterback for much of his career. The decline happened fast, but he still had a 10-year prime when he played at a Pro Bowl level for one of the best teams in the league.

There is no doubt McNabb has been a better overall pro than, say, Eli Manning. Eli has two more rings, but the Hall of Fame shouldn't be all about rings. McNabb made six Pro Bowls for a reason.

In the end, we see McNabb as a borderline Hall of Famer. He's not a guy who'll likely get in right away, but he deserves serious consideration, and we'd expect to eventually see him as a Hall of Fame finalist.

This debate is just getting started.

 

[cobalt_27]

Oh boy. Here come the crazy people again.

 

[Buck Stop]

Only if they start measuring most balls thrown in the dirt. If so, he's a shoe in!

 

[finito]

This debate is just getting started.

It's really not, I don't think. I'd be stunned if there was any serious consideration for him as a HOFer. He can lobby all he wants, but to me his legacy is in the waning minutes of the Super Bowl when he was simply too tired to play hurry-up offense. I've never seen than before and probably won't again.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

McNabb is one of the most delusional people I've ever heard.

 

[VA703]

Hall of the Very Good? Yes. Hall of Fame. No.

 

[Tau837]

This debate is just getting started.

It's really not, I don't think. I'd be stunned if there was any serious consideration for him as a HOFer. He can lobby all he wants, but to me his legacy is in the waning minutes of the Super Bowl when he was simply too tired to play hurry-up offense. I've never seen than before and probably won't again.

 

[mbuehner]

Let's just put everybody in the Hall of Fame so nobody gets their feelings hurt.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Kriegel started the discussion by saying there would be "no debate" whether or not McNabb was a Hall of Famer

Well, he's right. There's really not much of a debate about this.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

By Gregg Rosenthal NFL.com

Around The League editor

There is no doubt McNabb has been a better overall pro than, say, Eli Manning.

Wrong. What in the #### is this guy talking about??

Donovan played 16 games 4 times. And his legacy is that his fat ### was too out of shape to finish the biggest game of his life.

There's no debate.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I am not a big McNabb fan and I have limited internet access....

Can someone post his career averages to Troy Aikman's please. Not their TEAMS sucess...just the HOF QB from Dallas.

TIA

 

[SWC]

the only hall of fame he is going in to is the soup hall of fame and atually his mom was the best part of those ads so it doesnt matter maybe he can go in the hall of fame for dumb celebration show boating for that thing he did with the phone one time that was just stupid and still makes me feel embarassed for him and frankly when the old swcer is embarrassed for you its time to hang it up and go take up another hobby like model railroading i bet he would be awesome at that a who knows maybe someday he can go into the model train hall of fame take that to that bank rockstars and brohans

 

[Ghost Rider]

I am not a big McNabb fan and I have limited internet access....Can someone post his career averages to Troy Aikman's please. Not their TEAMS sucess...just the HOF QB from Dallas.TIA

Irrelevant. You can't compare players' numbers from different eras to one another. You have to compare them to those of their peers who played at the same time. And McNabb's numbers never stood out. Plus, he is a crybaby hypocrite who last month dogged Tebow and said that wins are all about the team, not the QB, and is now saying that him getting to five NFC title games matters. He is a hypocrite.

 

[Synesthesia]

Looking at the last ten years at QB's who will make the HOF and you get names like:ManningBradyBreesRogersAnd others who are highly likely:WarnerBig BenI just don't see McNabb as having the Resume to match the above

QBs who played within the last 10 years who are HOF locks:FavreWarnerPeyton ManningBradyBreesRodgersAnd Roethlisberger is very close.McNabb doesn't come close to measuring up to that group.

Wow, WAY too early to call Rodgers a lock. 1 ring, 2 PBs, 1 AP, 1 MVP, 17,000 yards, 130 TDs, and another 1000/16 rushing. That's not a HoF career, that's an incredible start to a HoF career. If Roethlisberger and Rodgers both got hit by a bus tomorrow, I think Roethlisberger is ever so slightly more likely to wind up in Canton than Rodgers. Give Rodgers another season (or, hell, another playoff win), and I think he passes Roeth. Give him another 2-3, and I think we can start throwing around the "L" word.

 

[griff321]

McNabb will make a bit of a hall run, but it'll bounce in the dirt three yards short.

Not to mention people just don't like him and his latest shtick isn't helping. It is a bit of a popularity contest.

 

[Gawain]

McNabb needs to hope that Warner makes it in quick and that there is a lull between Warner's election and Manning/Brady becoming eligible.

I believe that Warner was a much better QB than McNabb and deserves to be enshrined, while I don't believe McNabb does, but some of McNabb's stats compare favorably. If McNabb can enjoy a 5 year period where he is the best QB on the ballot and if he can emphasize that he has more yards, more TD's and fewer INT's than an enshrined Warner, stranger things have happened.

5 NFC Championship games isn't a terrible stat, nor is a 9-7 playoff record. 6 Pro Bowls helps as well.

I think a lot of McNabb's chances hinge on him being the best option for a few years, coupled with a quick election for Warner. If Warner stays on the ballot for a few years (possibly being enshrined right before the Manning/Brady 1st ballot), then McNabb has to try to persuade voters he belongs in over Kurt, a sell that not many voters will (hopefully) buy.

                comp    att     comp%   yards   TDs     INTs    PRat    Sck     Y/A     SkYrd   AY/A    ANY/A   YPGDonovan McNabb 	3170 	5374 	59.0% 	37276 	234 	117 	85.6 	410 	6.94 	2626 	6.83 	5.89 	223.2Kurt Warner 	2666 	4070 	65.5% 	32344 	208 	128 	93.7 	260 	7.95 	1669 	7.55 	6.71 	258.8

 

[cobalt_27]

There are two main issues here:

1. Should he get in?

2. Will he get in?

Should he get in with better-than-average stats, a few playoff highlights and lowlights and no rings? The answer is clearly NO.

Will he get in? It's a merit-based system first, beauty pagent second. Mcnabb doesn't have the resume to gain entry, and he clearly is not an endearing figure. Of course the answer is NO to whether or not he'll get in.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I am not a big McNabb fan and I have limited internet access....

Can someone post his career averages to Troy Aikman's please. Not their TEAMS sucess...just the HOF QB from Dallas.

TIA

Irrelevant. You can't compare players' numbers from different eras to one another. You have to compare them to those of their peers who played at the same time. And McNabb's numbers never stood out. Plus, he is a crybaby hypocrite who last month dogged Tebow and said that wins are all about the team, not the QB, and is now saying that him getting to five NFC title games matters. He is a hypocrite.

Then please take a look at that and let me know if his (Aikman's) number stood out.And I'm going to pretend I didn't read that part about them playing in different eras as well...

 

[cobalt_27]

I am not a big McNabb fan and I have limited internet access....

Can someone post his career averages to Troy Aikman's please. Not their TEAMS sucess...just the HOF QB from Dallas.

TIA

Irrelevant. You can't compare players' numbers from different eras to one another. You have to compare them to those of their peers who played at the same time. And McNabb's numbers never stood out. Plus, he is a crybaby hypocrite who last month dogged Tebow and said that wins are all about the team, not the QB, and is now saying that him getting to five NFC title games matters. He is a hypocrite.

Then please take a look at that and let me know if his (Aikman's) number stood out.And I'm going to pretend I didn't read that part about them playing in different eras as well...

Well, but they did. Big difference between 1992 NFL and 2002 NFL. To suggest they aren't markedly different eras suggests you're under the age of 25 or around thereabouts, because it's only kind of obvious.That said, the Cowboy offensive philosophy even for that era did not promote gaudy QB numbers. But Aikman was a critical piece to that juggernaut of an offense and a leader, which is simply can't be removed from the equation.

Mcnabb OTOH...well we all know the story. In his era, not a consideration. At all.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Well, but they did. Big difference between 1992 NFL and 2002 NFL. To suggest they aren't markedly different eras suggests you're under the age of 25 or around thereabouts, because it's only kind of obvious.That said, the Cowboy offensive philosophy even for that era did not promote gaudy QB numbers. But Aikman was a critical piece to that juggernaut of an offense and a leader, which is simply can't be removed from the equation.Mcnabb OTOH...well we all know the story. In his era, not a consideration. At all.

Way to many assumptions and way too many attempts to be the smart ### here...McNabb and Aikmen even played at the same time. Albeit for a couple of years they still played in the same era.I'm 34...saying I am around 25 and having that age in mind is like comparing their eras...Aikman gets a ton of credit for things that are often not seen.Being one of the most accurate passers ever despite a very common career completion percentageNot having gaudy numbers because of the offensive philosophy does not make him more established as a passer. It just means they didnt throw as much. He does not get credit for that.He has as many SB MVP's as Larry BrownI suppose he was the team leader, I'll take your word for that.I am not even a McNabb guy and I do NOT think he should go to the hall but it's hard to pass on him when you have Aikman in there with his mythical unseen qualities and average at best QB numbers...even for his "era"

 

[Gawain]

Well, but they did. Big difference between 1992 NFL and 2002 NFL. To suggest they aren't markedly different eras suggests you're under the age of 25 or around thereabouts, because it's only kind of obvious.That said, the Cowboy offensive philosophy even for that era did not promote gaudy QB numbers. But Aikman was a critical piece to that juggernaut of an offense and a leader, which is simply can't be removed from the equation.Mcnabb OTOH...well we all know the story. In his era, not a consideration. At all.

Way to many assumptions and way too many attempts to be the smart ### here...McNabb and Aikmen even played at the same time. Albeit for a couple of years they still played in the same era.I'm 34...saying I am around 25 and having that age in mind is like comparing their eras...Aikman gets a ton of credit for things that are often not seen.Being one of the most accurate passers ever despite a very common career completion percentageNot having gaudy numbers because of the offensive philosophy does not make him more established as a passer. It just means they didnt throw as much. He does not get credit for that.He has as many SB MVP's as Larry BrownI suppose he was the team leader, I'll take your word for that.I am not even a McNabb guy and I do NOT think he should go to the hall but it's hard to pass on him when you have Aikman in there with his mythical unseen qualities and average at best QB numbers...even for his "era"

I'm a Cowboy hater (comes from growing up a Bills fan), but there were big changes between when Aikman and Mcnabb played.Aikman's top finishesassing Yds1992 NFL 3445 (4)1993 NFL 3100 (10)1996 NFL 3126 (9)1997 NFL 3283 (8) Passing TD1992 NFL 23 (3)1993 NFL 15 (10)1997 NFL 19 (10) Pass Completion %1991 NFL 65.3% (2/68)1992 NFL 63.8% (5)1993 NFL 69.1% (1/8)1994 NFL 64.5% (2/86)1995 NFL 64.8% (2/80)1996 NFL 63.7% (2)1998 NFL 59.4% (8)1999 NFL 59.5% (9) 4 top-10 finishes in passing yards, with the highest total being under 3500 yards, yet still good for 4th that year. 3 top-10 finishes in TD passes, with one of those being an absurdly low 15. 5 top-5 finishes in pass completion, including the 8th best in league history. In six of those seasons, Aikman also placed in the top-10 in yards per attempt, so not only was he completing the ball at a tremendous clip, he also was throwing more than just short routes. (He only placed in the top-10 once in yards per completion, so he most decidedly wasn't only throwing long balls.)McNabbPassing Yds2004 NFL 3875 (8)2008 NFL 3916 (7) Two top-10 finishes, the lower still being more than 400 yards more than Aikman needed to finish 4th in 1992.Passing TD2000 NFL 21 (7)2001 NFL 25 (7)2004 NFL 31 (3/50)2008 NFL 23 (8) Four top-10 finishes, none in the teens and the sixteen years between 1992 and 2008 saw the value of 23 TD passes drop dramatically.Pass Completion %2004 NFL 64.0% (10) McNabb was never the most accurate of passers, but his 64% would have probably finished better than 10th during the 90s. Of the top-20 single-season completion-percentage stats, 15 of those have occurred after 2000.The passing game has certainly changed, even when we just look back 20 years.

 

[Hang 10]

I am not a big McNabb fan and I have limited internet access....Can someone post his career averages to Troy Aikman's please. Not their TEAMS sucess...just the HOF QB from Dallas.TIA

Irrelevant. You can't compare players' numbers from different eras to one another. You have to compare them to those of their peers who played at the same time. And McNabb's numbers never stood out. Plus, he is a crybaby hypocrite who last month dogged Tebow and said that wins are all about the team, not the QB, and is now saying that him getting to five NFC title games matters. He is a hypocrite.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I am not a big McNabb fan and I have limited internet access....

Can someone post his career averages to Troy Aikman's please. Not their TEAMS sucess...just the HOF QB from Dallas.

TIA

Irrelevant. You can't compare players' numbers from different eras to one another. You have to compare them to those of their peers who played at the same time. And McNabb's numbers never stood out. Plus, he is a crybaby hypocrite who last month dogged Tebow and said that wins are all about the team, not the QB, and is now saying that him getting to five NFC title games matters. He is a hypocrite.

Then please take a look at that and let me know if his (Aikman's) number stood out.

They did not, but Aikman was on THREE Super Bowl winning teams and was the Super Bowl MVP once. You don't need great stats when you have that on your resume.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I am not a big McNabb fan and I have limited internet access....

Can someone post his career averages to Troy Aikman's please. Not their TEAMS sucess...just the HOF QB from Dallas.

TIA

Irrelevant. You can't compare players' numbers from different eras to one another. You have to compare them to those of their peers who played at the same time. And McNabb's numbers never stood out. Plus, he is a crybaby hypocrite who last month dogged Tebow and said that wins are all about the team, not the QB, and is now saying that him getting to five NFC title games matters. He is a hypocrite.

Then please take a look at that and let me know if his (Aikman's) number stood out.

They did not, but Aikman was on THREE Super Bowl winning teams and was the Super Bowl MVP once. You don't need great stats when you have that on your resume.

So you're saying he had better circumstances then actual skill?TEAMS win SB's

Make no mistake about it..I know WHY he is in but I don't have to agree with it. Having him in opens the door for a lot of others IMO. Guys like Eli and Big Ben can call it quits right now and be sure fire first ballot HOFers because they have a better supporting cast then others QB's

 

[Sidewinder16]

TEAMS win SB'sMake no mistake about it..I know WHY he is in but I don't have to agree with it. Having him in opens the door for a lot of others IMO. Guys like Eli and Big Ben can call it quits right now and be sure fire first ballot HOFers because they have a better supporting cast then others QB's

Teams don't get inducted in to the HoF. Individual players do.I find it hard to understand how a 34 year old isn't keenly aware of the 90's Cowboys dynasty and Aikman's relevance to that dynasty. Even if you weren't paying attention to the NFL at the time, Aikman's place in NFL history is very well documented. Watch some NFL Films productions regarding him and the Cowboys in the 90's, read some books and/or newspaper/magazine articles regarding the subject, etc. The information is out there.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

TEAMS win SB'sMake no mistake about it..I know WHY he is in but I don't have to agree with it. Having him in opens the door for a lot of others IMO. Guys like Eli and Big Ben can call it quits right now and be sure fire first ballot HOFers because they have a better supporting cast then others QB's

Teams don't get inducted in to the HoF. Individual players do.I find it hard to understand how a 34 year old isn't keenly aware of the 90's Cowboys dynasty and Aikman's relevance to that dynasty. Even if you weren't paying attention to the NFL at the time, Aikman's place in NFL history is very well documented. Watch some NFL Films productions regarding him and the Cowboys in the 90's, read some books and/or newspaper/magazine articles regarding the subject, etc. The information is out there.

Maybe you should have actually read what I've been saying? Or even maybe the portion you quoted...

 

[sn0mm1s]

So you're saying he had better circumstances then actual skill?TEAMS win SB'sMake no mistake about it..I know WHY he is in but I don't have to agree with it. Having him in opens the door for a lot of others IMO. Guys like Eli and Big Ben can call it quits right now and be sure fire first ballot HOFers because they have a better supporting cast then others QB's

Teams win SBs - but QBs play such a huge role in their team's success that winning is factored into their career rankings. Also, let's not pretend that McNabb didn't have talent around him. His D was in the top 10 in scoring 7 times - same as Aikman. They both led top 10 offenses 6 times. Aikman played far better in the playoffs and has the rings to show for it.

 

[cobalt_27]

Well, but they did. Big difference between 1992 NFL and 2002 NFL. To suggest they aren't markedly different eras suggests you're under the age of 25 or around thereabouts, because it's only kind of obvious.That said, the Cowboy offensive philosophy even for that era did not promote gaudy QB numbers. But Aikman was a critical piece to that juggernaut of an offense and a leader, which is simply can't be removed from the equation.Mcnabb OTOH...well we all know the story. In his era, not a consideration. At all.

Way to many assumptions and way too many attempts to be the smart ### here...McNabb and Aikmen even played at the same time. Albeit for a couple of years they still played in the same era.I'm 34...saying I am around 25 and having that age in mind is like comparing their eras...Aikman gets a ton of credit for things that are often not seen.Being one of the most accurate passers ever despite a very common career completion percentageNot having gaudy numbers because of the offensive philosophy does not make him more established as a passer. It just means they didnt throw as much. He does not get credit for that.He has as many SB MVP's as Larry BrownI suppose he was the team leader, I'll take your word for that.I am not even a McNabb guy and I do NOT think he should go to the hall but it's hard to pass on him when you have Aikman in there with his mythical unseen qualities and average at best QB numbers...even for his "era"

I'm a Cowboy hater (comes from growing up a Bills fan), but there were big changes between when Aikman and Mcnabb played.Aikman's top finishesassing Yds1992 NFL 3445 (4)1993 NFL 3100 (10)1996 NFL 3126 (9)1997 NFL 3283 (8) Passing TD1992 NFL 23 (3)1993 NFL 15 (10)1997 NFL 19 (10) Pass Completion %1991 NFL 65.3% (2/68)1992 NFL 63.8% (5)1993 NFL 69.1% (1/8)1994 NFL 64.5% (2/86)1995 NFL 64.8% (2/80)1996 NFL 63.7% (2)1998 NFL 59.4% (8)1999 NFL 59.5% (9) 4 top-10 finishes in passing yards, with the highest total being under 3500 yards, yet still good for 4th that year. 3 top-10 finishes in TD passes, with one of those being an absurdly low 15. 5 top-5 finishes in pass completion, including the 8th best in league history. In six of those seasons, Aikman also placed in the top-10 in yards per attempt, so not only was he completing the ball at a tremendous clip, he also was throwing more than just short routes. (He only placed in the top-10 once in yards per completion, so he most decidedly wasn't only throwing long balls.)McNabbPassing Yds2004 NFL 3875 (8)2008 NFL 3916 (7) Two top-10 finishes, the lower still being more than 400 yards more than Aikman needed to finish 4th in 1992.Passing TD2000 NFL 21 (7)2001 NFL 25 (7)2004 NFL 31 (3/50)2008 NFL 23 (8) Four top-10 finishes, none in the teens and the sixteen years between 1992 and 2008 saw the value of 23 TD passes drop dramatically.Pass Completion %2004 NFL 64.0% (10) McNabb was never the most accurate of passers, but his 64% would have probably finished better than 10th during the 90s. Of the top-20 single-season completion-percentage stats, 15 of those have occurred after 2000.The passing game has certainly changed, even when we just look back 20 years.

Good work on the data compilation. I don't know why he's arguing the point, when the discrepancy is pretty obvious.That said, Aikman did not get into the HOF on his regular season resume. I personally think he was an integral part of their success. Replace him with 95% of the other QBs in his era, and the Cowboys don't win 3 SBs. McNabb didn't exactly have gaudy numbers either for his era, AND he never won a SB, AND he was a cancer on the team, AND he continues to be a malcontent even though he's out of the game. He wouldn't get in on merit, alone, and he certainly isn't helping his miniscule chances by being a cry baby about everything.

 

[moleculo]

Aikman: 6-1 in championship games (NFC CG + SB)

Mcnabb: 1-5 in championship games

That's what separates these two. Pretty stark contrast, no?

 

[Jobber]

Aikman: 6-1 in championship games (NFC CG + SB)Mcnabb: 1-5 in championship gamesThat's what separates these two. Pretty stark contrast, no?

Not to mention, HOF quarterbacks don't mail it in for a paycheck and not even bother learning the playbook (Vikings).

 

[cobalt_27]

Aikman: 6-1 in championship games (NFC CG + SB)Mcnabb: 1-5 in championship gamesThat's what separates these two. Pretty stark contrast, no?

You know, I had no idea. Absolutely no idea McNabb was that inept.There's no room in the HOF with that black mark on a resume. That's pitiful. Reflective of his whole career, personality...everything, actually.

 

[CalBear]

Stats aside, what sticks out to me about Aikman is his clutch performances on the biggest stages. see '92 NFC conf. championship @ Candlestick.

And, a few weeks later: 22/30/273 and 4 TDs to earn Super Bowl MVP that began the Cowboys' run.

Did any quarterback have a bigger jump from regular season stats to playoff stats than Aikman? He averaged 40 more yards per game in the playoffs and his passer rating jumped by 8 points.

Joe Montana regular season: 211 yards/game, QB rating 92.3Joe Montana playoffs/Super Bowl: 251 yards/game, QB rating 95.6.

 

[Synesthesia]

Stats aside, what sticks out to me about Aikman is his clutch performances on the biggest stages. see '92 NFC conf. championship @ Candlestick.

And, a few weeks later: 22/30/273 and 4 TDs to earn Super Bowl MVP that began the Cowboys' run.

Did any quarterback have a bigger jump from regular season stats to playoff stats than Aikman? He averaged 40 more yards per game in the playoffs and his passer rating jumped by 8 points.

Joe Montana regular season: 211 yards/game, QB rating 92.3Joe Montana playoffs/Super Bowl: 251 yards/game, QB rating 95.6.

Montana's got nothing on Bart Starr. 126.1 yards per game and 80.5 rating in the regular season. 175.3 yards per game and 104.8 rating in the postseason. He lost his first postseason game, then never lost again, finishing 9-1 in postseason play. Jim Plunkett had an even bigger gain in yards per game (165 to 229), but his passer rating gain was "only" 17 points- 64.5 to 81.9. Also, two rings and an 8-2 career playoff record.

 

[Raider Nation]

Quarterback Donovan McNabb says there's "an 80 to 90 percent chance" he'll play this season.

"I do want to play," McNabb told "NBC SportsTalk" on Thursday. "The most important thing is I have about three teams I'm looking at. ... We won't name those three teams."

Cool. I have 32 teams I'm looking at.

 

[Bankerguy]

I am not a big McNabb fan and I have limited internet access....Can someone post his career averages to Troy Aikman's please. Not their TEAMS sucess...just the HOF QB from Dallas.TIA

SureAikmanBeing the leader of 3 Super Bowl wins on arguably one of the best teams EVER. The most accurate passer I have ever watched.Played in a run first system that severly hindered his passing totals. Anyone with half an IQ should know this.McNabbBarfed on the teams final SB drive in a loss.Rode T.O. to make him seem like a good passer.Consistently threw ground balls to wide open RB's and WR's.Couldn't moon walk worth a turd.Didn't know the rules to overtime.Does this sound HOF worthy?

 

[Manster]

Well, but they did. Big difference between 1992 NFL and 2002 NFL. To suggest they aren't markedly different eras suggests you're under the age of 25 or around thereabouts, because it's only kind of obvious.

That said, the Cowboy offensive philosophy even for that era did not promote gaudy QB numbers. But Aikman was a critical piece to that juggernaut of an offense and a leader, which is simply can't be removed from the equation.

Mcnabb OTOH...well we all know the story. In his era, not a consideration. At all.

Way to many assumptions and way too many attempts to be the smart ### here...McNabb and Aikmen even played at the same time. Albeit for a couple of years they still played in the same era.

I'm 34...saying I am around 25 and having that age in mind is like comparing their eras...

Aikman gets a ton of credit for things that are often not seen.

Being one of the most accurate passers ever despite a very common career completion percentage

Not having gaudy numbers because of the offensive philosophy does not make him more established as a passer. It just means they didnt throw as much. He does not get credit for that.

He has as many SB MVP's as Larry Brown

I suppose he was the team leader, I'll take your word for that.

I am not even a McNabb guy and I do NOT think he should go to the hall but it's hard to pass on him when you have Aikman in there with his mythical unseen qualities and average at best QB numbers...even for his "era"

First of all, we've already gone over the McNabb and Aikman thing.Second, I'm thinking this is mostly a fishing expedition by an Eagles fan/Cowboys hater.

Of course I'm biased toward Aikman as a Cowboys fan, and will defend him as one of the all-time greats. What you fail to consider is, Aikman gets his "one the most accurate passers of all-time" label because made great passes at the biggest moments. He made GAME CHANGING plays on a regular basis, and took what defenses gave him. Was he as flashy or exciting as Favre? NO. Aikman was a great team leader, and a very smart QB. His QB play elevated at the biggest moments. Thats the definition of clutch.

 

[CalBear]

Aikman was a great team leader, and a very smart QB. His QB play elevated at the biggest moments. Thats the definition of clutch.

You mean like in 1996 when threw 3 INTs against a second-year expansion team to lose to Kerry Collins, ending the Cowboys dynasty? Or in his last two chances at glory, in the 1998 playoffs when he handed Arizona (Arizona!) its first playoff win in forever, throwing 3 INTs and 27 incompletions at home, and in the 1999 playoffs when he lost to Jeff George (Jeff George!) after throwing another INT, with no passing TDs and no scoring at all in the last three quarters.The definition of "clutch" as it's used by sports fans is "won some games." And while QBs contribute more to the success of their teams than other positions, they still need a very good team around them to win Super Bowls.

 

[babydemon90]

Way too many of McNabb's ProBowls he got in as an alternate. Maybe they still count, but imo, they have an asterisk. Or maybe David Garrard is really a pro bowl QB?

 

[Manster]

Aikman was a great team leader, and a very smart QB. His QB play elevated at the biggest moments. Thats the definition of clutch.

You mean like in 1996 when threw 3 INTs against a second-year expansion team to lose to Kerry Collins end the Cowboys dynasty? Or in his last two chances at glory, in the 1998 playoffs when he handed Arizona (Arizona!) its first playoff win in forever, throwing 3 INTs and 27 incompletions at home, and in the 1999 playoffs when he lost to Jeff George (Jeff George!) after throwing another INT, with no passing TDs and no scoring at all in the last three quarters.The definition of "clutch" as it's used by sports fans is "won some games." And while QBs contribute more to the success of their teams than other positions, they still need a very good team around them to win Super Bowls.

Yea ok. You forgot to mention Aikman was 0-11 in '89 as a starter, the TEAM sucked. He also spent a lot of time on his back. As he did in the latter half of the '90s. Everyone knows the Cowboys were on the decline, as a TEAM, in the late 90's. Aikman took many vicious hits and seemed to getting concussed on a regular basis. The guy was never very mobile. He was a pocket passer, and when the Cowboys couldnt keep him upright in the pocket, bad things happened.Look, his career wasnt perfect, but he's a HOF'er, and very deservedly so.

 

[CalBear]

Yea ok. You forgot to mention Aikman was 0-11 in '89 as a starter, the TEAM sucked. He also spent a lot of time on his back. As he did in the latter half of the '90s. Everyone knows the Cowboys were on the decline, as a TEAM, in the late 90's. Aikman took many vicious hits and seemed to getting concussed on a regular basis. The guy was never very mobile. He was a pocket passer, and when the Cowboys couldnt keep him upright in the pocket, bad things happened.Look, his career wasnt perfect, but he's a HOF'er, and very deservedly so.

Yes, he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. I just don't think it's likely that we'd be having this debate if Aikman were on McNabb's Eagles teams and McNabb were on those Cowboys.But, they were where they were, and McNabb's career won't warrant HOF inclusion unless something bizarre happens at this point.

 

[Raider Nation]

McNabb's career won't warrant HOF inclusion unless something bizarre happens at this point.

Maybe they'll retroactively count one-hoppers as completions.

 

[Manster]

Yea ok. You forgot to mention Aikman was 0-11 in '89 as a starter, the TEAM sucked. He also spent a lot of time on his back. As he did in the latter half of the '90s. Everyone knows the Cowboys were on the decline, as a TEAM, in the late 90's. Aikman took many vicious hits and seemed to getting concussed on a regular basis. The guy was never very mobile. He was a pocket passer, and when the Cowboys couldnt keep him upright in the pocket, bad things happened.Look, his career wasnt perfect, but he's a HOF'er, and very deservedly so.

Yes, he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. I just don't think it's likely that we'd be having this debate if Aikman were on McNabb's Eagles teams and McNabb were on those Cowboys.But, they were where they were, and McNabb's career won't warrant HOF inclusion unless something bizarre happens at this point.

They were very different QBs. If you are implying that McNabb would have had as much success as Aikman if he were a Cowboy, and Aikman woulda fallen short as an Eagle, well thats a huge leap. First of all, if they are swapped, that changes your entire offensive philosophy, so who knows what the rest of the personnel would have looked like on either team.