Don't political outsiders usually win the white house? (1 Viewer)

[Riversco]

Just looking at the past:

1976 Carter was the outsider.

1980 Reagan was the outsider.

1984 Reagan won again.

1988 Bush was the establishment and won.

1992 Clinton was an outsider.

1996 Clinton won re-election

2000 Bush represented the establishment and won.

2004 Bush won again.

2008 Obama was the outsider.

2012 Obama won again.

By my count, establishment candidates have only won 3 of the last 9 (And in 2000 and 2004, both candidates were establishment guys). The rest were anti-establishment figures. In the last 6 races where at least 1 was an outsider, the outsider has won 5.

So why do people say this election is special because its about anti-establishment candidates? Isn't that the norm?

 

[tommyboy]

Hello President Trump...

 

[Limp Ditka]

Obama was an outsider?

 

[Mister CIA]

Just looking at the past:

1976 Carter was the outsider.

1980 Reagan was the outsider.

1984 Reagan won again.

1988 Bush was the establishment and won.

1992 Clinton was an outsider.

1996 Clinton won re-election

2000 Bush represented the establishment and won.

2004 Bush won again.

2008 Obama was the outsider.

2012 Obama won again.

By my count, establishment candidates have only won 3 of the last 9 (And in 2000 and 2004, both candidates were establishment guys). The rest were anti-establishment figures. In the last 6 races where at least 1 was an outsider, the outsider has won 5.

So why do people say this election is special because its about anti-establishment candidates? Isn't that the norm?

I always considered Jimmy Carter a bit of an outsider, but he was the governor a fairly large state.

Reagan pounded the rock for many years, and finally it broke. Surely had lots of influential contacts working in his favor.

Clinton, probably had lots of blackmail pictures.

Obama wrote his ticket in 2004 with THE single greatest political speech I've ever witnessed live.

...I think I'm just rambling. Pay me no mind.

 

[Christo]

They're all "Establishment."

HTH

 

[Gopher State]

Hello President Trump...

X2

 

[Marauder]

I don't see any way Obama could have been considered an outsider. He was the keynote speaker at the 2004 DNC and was being touted as a possible future Presidential candidate by insiders back then. When he ran in 2008 he was a Senator from a big state. He's the very definition of establishment.

 

[timschochet]

These days when somebody talks about "establishment" in either party, they're usually referring to the big corporate donors who give massive dollars to the campaigns they want to win. Under that definition, none of the people you named were anti-establishment. The last true anti-establishment candidates to win the nomination were, respectively, Barry Goldwater and George McGovern.

 

[rockaction]

And Reagan was governor of one of the largest, most populous, and wealthiest land masses in the world for many, many years. No way was he an outsider.

That said, I think I know what you're getting at with your comment. Well done.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Just looking at the past:

...2000 Bush represented the establishment and won.

...By my count, establishment candidates have only won 3 of the last 9 (And in 2000 and 2004, both candidates were establishment guys). The rest were anti-establishment figures. In the last 6 races where at least 1 was an outsider, the outsider has won 5.

So why do people say this election is special because its about anti-establishment candidates? Isn't that the norm?

People won't like it but actually GW Bush ran as an outsider in 2000 vs Mr. Insider, Gore. It wasn't that long ago but Bush was going to release your SS to your 401k and his big platform was avoiding nation building and improving education accountability.

 

[SIDA!]

Just looking at the past:

...2000 Bush represented the establishment and won.

...By my count, establishment candidates have only won 3 of the last 9 (And in 2000 and 2004, both candidates were establishment guys). The rest were anti-establishment figures. In the last 6 races where at least 1 was an outsider, the outsider has won 5.

So why do people say this election is special because its about anti-establishment candidates? Isn't that the norm?

People won't like it but actually GW Bush ran as an outsider in 2000 vs Mr. Insider, Gore. It wasn't that long ago but Bush was going to release your SS to your 401k and his big platform was avoiding nation building and improving education accountability.

W. was the definition of establishment.

Maybe we are all talking about different things and thus the disconnect. What constitutes an outsider?

Every politician runs as an outsider because that is politics 101. I wouldn't be surprised if Hillary has claimed to be an outsider this election cycle.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Just looking at the past:

...2000 Bush represented the establishment and won.

...By my count, establishment candidates have only won 3 of the last 9 (And in 2000 and 2004, both candidates were establishment guys). The rest were anti-establishment figures. In the last 6 races where at least 1 was an outsider, the outsider has won 5.

So why do people say this election is special because its about anti-establishment candidates? Isn't that the norm?

People won't like it but actually GW Bush ran as an outsider in 2000 vs Mr. Insider, Gore. It wasn't that long ago but Bush was going to release your SS to your 401k and his big platform was avoiding nation building and improving education accountability.

People won't like it because that argument is pretty flimsy. The son of a former president who may have been the most connected man in government over the past 50 years, is not an outsider by any definition.

Clinton, Reagan, and Carter were all known but were DC outsiders. Carter and Clinton weren't "establishment" by any means, they were both long shots to receive their party's nomination while Reagan had already run for president once before...and was a co-favorite with GHW Bush in the '80 election.

In the 20th century I'd guess Carter was about the biggest "outsider" of them all. Even guys like Hoover and Wilson who had interesting pre-White House lives, had deep connections to the establishment. Now in the 19th century, there is where you find "outsiders."

 

[SIDA!]

HFS. I was just being a little tongue in cheek about HRC. I try not to pay attention to that hag.

ABC news headline: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-political-outsider-president/story?id=33898281

She has a vagyna! She has a vagyna!

"I cannot imagine anyone being more of an outsider than the first woman president, I mean really, let's think about it," the Democratic presidential candidate said during an interview on CBS News' "Face the Nation."

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Just looking at the past:

...2000 Bush represented the establishment and won.

...By my count, establishment candidates have only won 3 of the last 9 (And in 2000 and 2004, both candidates were establishment guys). The rest were anti-establishment figures. In the last 6 races where at least 1 was an outsider, the outsider has won 5.

So why do people say this election is special because its about anti-establishment candidates? Isn't that the norm?

People won't like it but actually GW Bush ran as an outsider in 2000 vs Mr. Insider, Gore. It wasn't that long ago but Bush was going to release your SS to your 401k and his big platform was avoiding nation building and improving education accountability.

People won't like it because that argument is pretty flimsy. The son of a former president who may have been the most connected man in government over the past 50 years, is not an outsider by any definition.

Clinton, Reagan, and Carter were all known but were DC outsiders. Carter and Clinton weren't "establishment" by any means, they were both long shots to receive their party's nomination while Reagan had already run for president once before...and was a co-favorite with GHW Bush in the '80 election.

In the 20th century I'd guess Carter was about the biggest "outsider" of them all. Even guys like Hoover and Wilson who had interesting pre-White House lives, had deep connections to the establishment. Now in the 19th century, there is where you find "outsiders."

Ok, on Bush I'm talking about how he ran and portrayed himself. Different thing. On substance of course you're right.

eta - I guess it would be more correct to say that McCain positioned himself as the outsider in 2000, though he did not reach the final.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Nevermind, I'll say Clinton was establishment. He had some pretty deep roots in the DNC and was very popular among the nation's governors, so I guess that would be "establishment." He wasn't the establishment's favorite guy though when he ran for President, but they fell in line.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Trump probably is more entrenched in politics than anyone but Clinton or Jeb in this election. He's had to grease so many palms over the years to get stuff built he knows the intricacies of the game better than any of them. Being a billionaire means getting in the trenches/bed with lawmakers.

 

[Riversco]

So all we learned is that people have different definitions of "establishment". So I guess its all meaningless.

 

[irish eyes]

Yayyyyy!!!!!! Another political thread. Hey lets start a couple hundred more so there is nothing else to view on this board. Geez people

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

So all we learned is that people have different definitions of "establishment". So I guess its all meaningless.

Usually establishment is just used to mean "a regular party guy" who's won some actual elections. If you win election at the national level running as a Dem/Rep you're probably not an outsider.

Cruz is a Senator, but has spent every second in office doing everything he can to piss off the rest of his caucus. So not really a party guy.

Trump and Carson have never held elected office.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Yayyyyy!!!!!! Another political thread. Hey lets start a couple hundred more so there is nothing else to view on this board. Geez people

If only there was a way to not open a thread.