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Draft Chat With our Draftniks Matt Waldman and Sigmund Bloom Tonight D (1 Viewer)

The one non-football thing I really dislike (and being judgmental here)about Newton isn't he, but his father. This guy is overbearing, IMO. Every time I see him on a special or interviewed, it's like watching Michael Jackson's dad, Todd Marinovich's pop, or any other stage father who needs to let go.

Nothing wrong with being involved and helping, guiding, but his presence seems too preplanned and staged to show him as the brains of the operation that I think this could be dangerous.

 
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'Matt Waldman said:
'Sigmund Bloom said:
Im going to go against the grain here and say that I get the Newton pick and think it could work out very well. Look at what he did at Auburn - took a team without playmakers or much talent and turned them into a National Champion - in the SEC no less. Let's not forget that Vince Young instantly revived the Titans franchise before his lack of emotional maturity ruined him. There's a risk, yes, but the potential payoff matches it. You don't plan to be picking #1 in back to back years to get Luck, that's just ridiculous.
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Planning for Luck next year is ridiculous, but I'd counter there's a trend in the NFL where teams get taken off guard by athleticism or scheme just long enough that a team can benefit (Miami-Wild Cat; Browns using Derek Anderson; Titans w/Vince Young; etc, ) that once teams catch up these guys or offenses get exposed. It's going to be great to see how Newton does in Carolina, but I think Tennessee's situation was a little different defensively. But to see your point, Carolina can improve quickly offensively if the run game gets going. The defense isn't as far off as it looks to at least keep the team in the game if the offense improves (a precarious scenario much like Tennessee in this dynamic). Good points...
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To compound the general error on handling QBs these days, many forget that most QBs aren't ready for pro football in Year 1. They should redshirt most of the time, and many can get crushed for several reasons - literally and figuratively - as a rookie. The game is faster. The field has 22 pro players on it, not just a handful. WRs aren't wide open. Schemes by defenses are much, much better.Several recent QBs that wilted quickly may have fared far better with a mentor under center to allow them to mature on the sidelines for a year or two. Look no further than Aaron Rodgers.
 
'Matt Waldman said:
The one non-football thing I really dislike (and being judgmental here)about Newton isn't he, but his father. This guy is overbearing, IMO. Every time I see him on a special or interviewed, it's like watching Michael Jackson's dad, Todd Marinovich's pop, or any other stage father who needs to let go. Nothing wrong with being involved and helping, guiding, but his presence seems too preplanned and staged to show him as the brains of the operation that I think this could be dangerous.
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:goodposting:That was hard to watch
 
Great to hear from you guys. I think the panthers will make a great choice here. Bump Jonathan Stewart.

 
'Jeff Pasquino said:
'Matt Waldman said:
'Sigmund Bloom said:
Im going to go against the grain here and say that I get the Newton pick and think it could work out very well. Look at what he did at Auburn - took a team without playmakers or much talent and turned them into a National Champion - in the SEC no less. Let's not forget that Vince Young instantly revived the Titans franchise before his lack of emotional maturity ruined him. There's a risk, yes, but the potential payoff matches it. You don't plan to be picking #1 in back to back years to get Luck, that's just ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Planning for Luck next year is ridiculous, but I'd counter there's a trend in the NFL where teams get taken off guard by athleticism or scheme just long enough that a team can benefit (Miami-Wild Cat; Browns using Derek Anderson; Titans w/Vince Young; etc, ) that once teams catch up these guys or offenses get exposed. It's going to be great to see how Newton does in Carolina, but I think Tennessee's situation was a little different defensively. But to see your point, Carolina can improve quickly offensively if the run game gets going. The defense isn't as far off as it looks to at least keep the team in the game if the offense improves (a precarious scenario much like Tennessee in this dynamic). Good points...
Click to expand...
To compound the general error on handling QBs these days, many forget that most QBs aren't ready for pro football in Year 1. They should redshirt most of the time, and many can get crushed for several reasons - literally and figuratively - as a rookie. The game is faster. The field has 22 pro players on it, not just a handful. WRs aren't wide open. Schemes by defenses are much, much better.Several recent QBs that wilted quickly may have fared far better with a mentor under center to allow them to mature on the sidelines for a year or two. Look no further than Aaron Rodgers.
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Great points and we can add Steve McNair as the No.3 overall pick who sat at first, but has an MVP under his belt, 2-3 division titles, and a SB appearance. Drew Brees sat behind Doug Flutie - think that didn't help?
 
Jene - I think this is all about you tonight with all the IDP / DEs slated to go off the board this evening. After this Newton / Gabbert nonsense, right? ;)

 
Was the minority opinion in a Twitter discussion with Greg Cosell and Cecil this afternoon about Von Miller being a questionable fit for what should be a defense in transition to the 4-3 under John Fox in Denver.

Certainly can never have enough pass rushers, but 4-3 SLB or 4-3 RDE (though more reasonable) seems to be a questionable fit for Miller. He may grow into Demarcus Ware or Robert Mathis, but I don't think he's there yet.

 
So will Steve Smith be gone now? It'll be interesting where he winds up. Carolina should run a Double Wing with DeAngelo and JStewart behind Cam.

 
I wish Carolina took A.J. Green.

When a player as good as Steve Smith asks for help (like Ray Lewis did), you give it to him. Green w/Smith could be a great tandem that opens the ground game and gives their young QBs (or an acquired veteran) a real chance. This then helps the defense because the offense can stay on the field.

Mel Kiper continues to say (you can't misfire). We know this...Green is safer than all these QBs.

 
Ugh. My TweetDeck client keeps crashing and the furiously scrolling updates on my backup desktop client (Seesmic) are making me sick.

 
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'Jene Bramel said:
Was the minority opinion in a Twitter discussion with Greg Cosell and Cecil this afternoon about Von Miller being a questionable fit for what should be a defense in transition to the 4-3 under John Fox in Denver.Certainly can never have enough pass rushers, but 4-3 SLB or 4-3 RDE (though more reasonable) seems to be a questionable fit for Miller. He may grow into Demarcus Ware or Robert Mathis, but I don't think he's there yet.
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I heard that Fox uses the SAM as a rusher most of the time, making Miller a better fit... but it is an interesting mixture. Really thought that they'd go DT.
 
'Jeff Pasquino said:
'Jene Bramel said:
Was the minority opinion in a Twitter discussion with Greg Cosell and Cecil this afternoon about Von Miller being a questionable fit for what should be a defense in transition to the 4-3 under John Fox in Denver.Certainly can never have enough pass rushers, but 4-3 SLB or 4-3 RDE (though more reasonable) seems to be a questionable fit for Miller. He may grow into Demarcus Ware or Robert Mathis, but I don't think he's there yet.
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I heard that Fox uses the SAM as a rusher most of the time, making Miller a better fit... but it is an interesting mixture. Really thought that they'd go DT.
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Yeah, that was part of the Twitter argument.Not impressed with the pass-rushing SLB in Carolina over the past few years. I think it's a situational deal, Miller still has to play the run and pass on early downs.
 
'Joe Bryant said:
What do you think the odds are that Newton goes #1 to Carolina?Bigger question - Should Carolina take him at #1?I say odds are 60% he goes #1.And I say Carolina should not take him.Not so much a knock on Newton. They just have too many holes, too weird a situation with new coaches and limited OTA's, Clausen, etc.What do you guys think?J
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Newton will be the #1 pick..take it to the bank!
 
Can't wait for the dust to settle in a few days and see how the Top 12 rookies for fantasy drafts shapes up. I'd have to guess Newton is at best late end of the first, if that.

 
For the Broncos...Why would they pick Von? It seems like they have pass rushing covered. I think they need to take a DT. Looks like they are taking Miller as anticipated. I don't like this pick.

 
Mayock making my points for me, but the argument is that it's okay to draft a situational player with the second overall pick?

I think it's a much, much better risk than Aaron Maybin or Vernon Gholston, but I think it's a bit of a square peg - round hole for now.

 
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'Jene Bramel said:
Mayock making my points for me, but the argument is draft a situational player with the second overall pick?I think it's a much, much better risk than Aaron Maybin or Vernon Gholston, but I think it's a bit of a square peg - round hole for now.
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I see the logic if there is a DT in the 2nd that they love like Austin. But the pick just smacks of Aaron Curry to me.
 
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'Jeff Pasquino said:
'Jene Bramel said:
Was the minority opinion in a Twitter discussion with Greg Cosell and Cecil this afternoon about Von Miller being a questionable fit for what should be a defense in transition to the 4-3 under John Fox in Denver.

Certainly can never have enough pass rushers, but 4-3 SLB or 4-3 RDE (though more reasonable) seems to be a questionable fit for Miller. He may grow into Demarcus Ware or Robert Mathis, but I don't think he's there yet.
Click to expand...
I heard that Fox uses the SAM as a rusher most of the time, making Miller a better fit... but it is an interesting mixture. Really thought that they'd go DT.
Click to expand...
Glad you're arguing w/Cosell, Jene. He's a great resource about football and his film study makes him a great guy for an opinion. Tons of respect for the guy and hope I can watch film with him one day. But he spends hours studying multiple college players leading up to the draft. Most of his time is spent watching NFL so his takes are quick takes, like many...

I like Miller the player - love him as a character guy who will find a fit with the team eventually. Looking forward to hearing more about why you aren't sold on him for Denver. Can you say more about it here?

 
'Jene Bramel said:
Mayock making my points for me, but the argument is that it's okay to draft a situational player with the second overall pick?I think it's a much, much better risk than Aaron Maybin or Vernon Gholston, but I think it's a bit of a square peg - round hole for now.
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Agreed, just not seeing the other aspects of his game to justify this pick in a 4-3. Win-win for Buffalo as they get a beast in Dareus...
 
Think I might switch to ESPN tonight. Love Gruden and the NFL Network is skimpy with highlights so far.

 
'Sigmund Bloom said:
'Jene Bramel said:
Mayock making my points for me, but the argument is that it's okay to draft a situational player with the second overall pick?I think it's a much, much better risk than Aaron Maybin or Vernon Gholston, but I think it's a bit of a square peg - round hole for now.
Click to expand...
Agreed, just not seeing the other aspects of his game to justify this pick in a 4-3. Win-win for Buffalo as they get a beast in Dareus...
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Any chance they could stick with a 3-4 in Denver? Why pick Von if they aren't? Just a strange pick to me.
 
'Matt Waldman said:
'Jeff Pasquino said:
'Jene Bramel said:
Was the minority opinion in a Twitter discussion with Greg Cosell and Cecil this afternoon about Von Miller being a questionable fit for what should be a defense in transition to the 4-3 under John Fox in Denver.

Certainly can never have enough pass rushers, but 4-3 SLB or 4-3 RDE (though more reasonable) seems to be a questionable fit for Miller. He may grow into Demarcus Ware or Robert Mathis, but I don't think he's there yet.
Click to expand...
I heard that Fox uses the SAM as a rusher most of the time, making Miller a better fit... but it is an interesting mixture. Really thought that they'd go DT.
Click to expand...
Glad you're arguing w/Cosell, Jene. He's a great resource about football and his film study makes him a great guy for an opinion. Tons of respect for the guy and hope I can watch film with him one day. But he spends hours studying multiple college players leading up to the draft. Most of his time is spent watching NFL so his takes are quick takes, like many...

I like Miller the player - love him as a character guy who will find a fit with the team eventually. Looking forward to hearing more about why you aren't sold on him for Denver. Can you say more about it here?
Click to expand...
Projectable, but no guarantee he takes to run support and coverage as well as Demarcus Ware as an OLB. No guarantee he holds up at the point like a undersized RDE like Robert Mathis or Jared Allen. You're asking for teams to run at you all day with that LB corps. You either lose at the point of attack at SLB or he wears out on early downs as an RDE. You get none of the elite pursuit play and might hinder his closing speed on passing downs.Just looks like a situational 4-3 player right now. His best fit is as a pin-the-ears-back pass rusher who slowly learns how to integrate the other parts of linebacker play.

 
Wow lots of people hating on Newton for a perceived lack of intelligence. Did anyone actually watch the whole segment with Gruden?

Link

In the full segment, Cam diagrams a couple of plays and a couple of things were clear to me: (a) he’s a freak athlete, (b) he actually internalized his coaching quite well, as he remembered all the coaching points and axioms from Malzahn (and Gruden said he retained everything in their meeting quite well), and © he really does have a long way to go in terms of mastering a complicated NFL system.
Click to expand...
 
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'shader said:
'Sigmund Bloom said:
'Jene Bramel said:
Mayock making my points for me, but the argument is that it's okay to draft a situational player with the second overall pick?I think it's a much, much better risk than Aaron Maybin or Vernon Gholston, but I think it's a bit of a square peg - round hole for now.
Click to expand...
Agreed, just not seeing the other aspects of his game to justify this pick in a 4-3. Win-win for Buffalo as they get a beast in Dareus...
Click to expand...
Any chance they could stick with a 3-4 in Denver? Why pick Von if they aren't? Just a strange pick to me.
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Was some early discussion about hybrid elements in Denver, but they were never ready for the 3-4 transition anyway. That'a 4-3 team that still has holes at DT and LB.
 
Dareus and Kyle Williams will look nice together. Plenty of options for a team that is still looking for an identity (4-3 v 3-4). Big time help stopping the run, good pass rushing capability up the middle.

If you like your teams built from the line of scrimmage back, this is a good foundation to build on.

 
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Lance Zierlein, one of the best draft analysts out there, is saying Fairley here - that would throw a monkey wrench into a lot of projected top 10s. I think Gabbert's falls to at least 7 if he doesn't go here.

 
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