Draft Day #1 winners/losers (1 Viewer)

[renesauz]

...Ingram is already the best RB on Supe contenders.. they didn't give up alot to get him-W...

They gave up a #2 this year and a #1 in 2012. That is a lot for a late 1st round pick. If it works out, it will be worth it. However, if something goes wrong, it will be a high price to pay.

Essentially they gave up the 24th pick in the 2nd round to accelerate a 1st round pick from 2012 to 2011, replacing a UDFA with a Heisman Trophy winner and consensus best back in the draft. I think that's a pretty reasonable price for a SB contender needing an upgrade at this position. That SB contender window doesn't stay open forever.

I don't particularly like the move because I think there's plenty of RB's available that could fit the need cheaper, but this wasn't that high a price. Hardly worth listing N.O. as a "loser" in the first round.

 

[FavreCo]

So let me get this straight... teams that do this for a living made their first round decisions yesterday after countless hours and dollars invested, and even they can't know how any of this will pan out for 2-3 years. Yet a bunch of nobodies sitting at their computers in their underwear, posting on a message board, can know right now who the winners and losers are, no doubt based primarily on opinions spewed by media talking heads who in most cases also know much less than the teams making these decisions. Okie dokie. Knock yourselves out.

Howdy. Carolina is the biggest loser. The team set itself back 3-5 years. Additionally because they took Scam Newton, they will miss out on Andrew Luck even thought there is a great chance they pick #1 again in 2012. Still won't be able to put up points with Sccam. Won't win a game in their division with Scam. One of the tougher divisions in NFL right now. Best hope is to be able to trade the 2012 pick to a team in need of a QB, then watch that team excel while they try and teach Scam how to play NFL QB.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

So let me get this straight... teams that do this for a living made their first round decisions yesterday after countless hours and dollars invested, and even they can't know how any of this will pan out for 2-3 years. Yet a bunch of nobodies sitting at their computers in their underwear, posting on a message board, can know right now who the winners and losers are, no doubt based primarily on opinions spewed by media talking heads who in most cases also know much less than the teams making these decisions. Okie dokie. Knock yourselves out.

Howdy. Carolina is the biggest loser. The team set itself back 3-5 years. Additionally because they took Scam Newton, they will miss out on Andrew Luck even thought there is a great chance they pick #1 again in 2012. Still won't be able to put up points with Sccam. Won't win a game in their division with Scam. One of the tougher divisions in NFL right now. Best hope is to be able to trade the 2012 pick to a team in need of a QB, then watch that team excel while they try and teach Scam how to play NFL QB.

 

[gianmarco]

So let me get this straight... teams that do this for a living made their first round decisions yesterday after countless hours and dollars invested, and even they can't know how any of this will pan out for 2-3 years. Yet a bunch of nobodies sitting at their computers in their underwear, posting on a message board, can know right now who the winners and losers are, no doubt based primarily on opinions spewed by media talking heads who in most cases also know much less than the teams making these decisions. Okie dokie. Knock yourselves out.

Nope....I don't wear underwear.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

O.K. So like most Vikings fans upon hearing the news I threw up and then it took my girlfriend about thirty minutes to talk me off my roof.After I get done washing off the hate and drying my eyes I started reading about Ponder. Injury history aside he was one of the more accurate QBs because of his good foot work and was excellent at anticipating throws. Arm strength remains a major concern, but the same was said about Drew Brees and I'm feeling like the Vikings did their homework here. So really then I'm just pissed that the Vikings didn't do something to acquire another pick, move down, and then draft him there. Assuming he's the guy that they want how far could they fall and still get him? My feeling is that Miami had their eye on him and if they were to pass then word was Washington moved down thinking we'd pick either Dalton/Mallet and they get Ponder at 16. Tough to say here if it's really as bad as my initial gut reaction led me to believe. At the end of the day I think the Vikings may not have helped themselves much but they didn't mortgage their future like some teams did either. Homer rationalizing or sound reasoning?Still the way things look now it's going to be a loooong season.

They could've traded down and got ponder at 2.16

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

You can tell people are reallllllllllllly bored this year. Winners/Losers after the first round!?!?!? C'mon guys.Minnesota may be the biggest WINNER. It shouldn't shock anyone if Ponder is the best QB taken in the 1st round. Wouldn't surprise me, at all.I will concede that Atlanta gave up a TON for a WR2. Jones has to be really special to justify that haul, and it's not like the Falcons -- in spite of their record -- don't have real needs at key positions.

secondary?

 

[shader]

So let me get this straight... teams that do this for a living made their first round decisions yesterday after countless hours and dollars invested, and even they can't know how any of this will pan out for 2-3 years. Yet a bunch of nobodies sitting at their computers in their underwear, posting on a message board, can know right now who the winners and losers are, no doubt based primarily on opinions spewed by media talking heads who in most cases also know much less than the teams making these decisions. Okie dokie. Knock yourselves out.

We're on a message board. What else are we supposed to do? Saying "oh well we'll see how it turns out, see you guys in September" would be kind of boring for a forum, don't you think?

 

[Couch Potato]

So let me get this straight... teams that do this for a living made their first round decisions yesterday after countless hours and dollars invested, and even they can't know how any of this will pan out for 2-3 years. Yet a bunch of nobodies sitting at their computers in their underwear, posting on a message board, can know right now who the winners and losers are, no doubt based primarily on opinions spewed by media talking heads who in most cases also know much less than the teams making these decisions. Okie dokie. Knock yourselves out.

We're on a message board. What else are we supposed to do? Saying "oh well we'll see how it turns out, see you guys in September" would be kind of boring for a forum, don't you think?

You didn't keep reading down the thread before you posted this, did you.

 

[Brothers Mayhem]

IMO - the only winner was Denver with the Vonn Miller pick. The rest of the draft (Rd.1) lost.

Cleveland gets 2 2nd rounders, an extra first, then goes and gets THE nose tackle in this draft? Winners, IMO.

It's my understanding they are gonna run a 4-3....not much need for a NT here.

 

[sho nuff]

O.K. So like most Vikings fans upon hearing the news I threw up and then it took my girlfriend about thirty minutes to talk me off my roof.After I get done washing off the hate and drying my eyes I started reading about Ponder. Injury history aside he was one of the more accurate QBs because of his good foot work and was excellent at anticipating throws. Arm strength remains a major concern, but the same was said about Drew Brees and I'm feeling like the Vikings did their homework here. So really then I'm just pissed that the Vikings didn't do something to acquire another pick, move down, and then draft him there. Assuming he's the guy that they want how far could they fall and still get him? My feeling is that Miami had their eye on him and if they were to pass then word was Washington moved down thinking we'd pick either Dalton/Mallet and they get Ponder at 16. Tough to say here if it's really as bad as my initial gut reaction led me to believe. At the end of the day I think the Vikings may not have helped themselves much but they didn't mortgage their future like some teams did either. Homer rationalizing or sound reasoning?Still the way things look now it's going to be a loooong season.

They could've traded down and got ponder at 2.16

So you know they could have gotten Ponder there? Care to tell me tomorrows Power Ball numbers?And it looked as though they tried to trade down.Fans always say "could have traded down"...but it takes another party willing to give up what you want in order to trade down.And neither you, nor I, nor Mel Kiper, nor any NFL GM knows if Ponder would have been there at 2.16.Not that I like the pick all that much for them...just think its funny the armchair GMs of the FFA think they know where a guy might go.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

If the draft was the Super Bowl, the Lions would be a dynasty. Seems like every year, people call them "winners" on draft day...and then they do nothing in the actual games. If they're always struggling, were they really winners?

I like Suh, but every draft I hear about how awesome the Lions did. When will it ever turn into anything?

 

[Faust]

Ravens to ask for draft compensation from the Bears for mixup?

SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- Before I get to the story of the night, the mega-trade between Cleveland and Atlanta that I'm sure made Sean Payton cringe, an explanation of the weirdness that happened with Baltimore on the clock at pick 26, weirdness that is not over:

Chicago, picking 29th, and Baltimore, at 26, finalized a trade that would have had them switch slots, with the Ravens getting the Bears' fourth-round pick in return. Chicago would take Wisconsin tackle Gabe Carimi, and the Ravens, if Colorado cornerback Jimmy Smith was still on the board, would take Smith at 29. With two minutes left in the Ravens' period, the deal was done.

Under NFL rules, each team has to report the trade to NFL draft headquarters at Radio City Music Hall. The Ravens called it in. They assumed Chicago called it in, but due to a miscommunication in the Bears' draft room, no one from Chicago ever called the league. As the clock ticked down to zero, and with Chicago on the phone with Carimi to tell him he was going to be their pick, Baltimore noticed no one at the league had announced the trade and Chicago's pick of Carimi. Meanwhile, Kansas City, with the 27th pick, rushed its card to the desk at Radio City, taking Pittsburgh wideout Jonathan Baldwin.

Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome, on an open line to New York, demanded to know why the trade hadn't gone through. Chicago never called to confirm it, Newsome was told. Baltimore was infuriated. The league didn't allow the trade. The Ravens picked Smith at 27 (not 26; Kansas City was awarded the 26th pick and took Baldwin, because the Chiefs got the pick in before the Ravens did), and the Bears got lucky, getting Carimi at 29.

"Whatever you hear, Baltimore did everything the right way," Bears GM Jerry Angelo told Chicago media. "There were a lot of things happening in the draft room. We were getting a lot of calls, we just ... dropped the ball. I dropped the ball. I can't say anything more than that."

All's well that ends well, you say? Not so fast. Angelo called Baltimore owner Steve Bisciotti to apologize, but Bisciotti wanted the fourth-round pick anyway, claiming it was part of the deal they'd agreed to. In fact, I'm told Bisciotti today will push to get the fourth-round pick, or to make the situation right in some way.

The league is under no obligation to do so, because the trade was never official. And maybe all's fair in love and draft-night trades, but as far as Baltimore's concerned, I don't think this one's over. I think the Ravens will ask the league to award them some compensation from Chicago before the draft resumes at 6 p.m. Eastern today. Stay tuned.

 

[saintfool]

You can tell people are reallllllllllllly bored this year. Winners/Losers after the first round!?!?!? C'mon guys.Minnesota may be the biggest WINNER. It shouldn't shock anyone if Ponder is the best QB taken in the 1st round. Wouldn't surprise me, at all.I will concede that Atlanta gave up a TON for a WR2. Jones has to be really special to justify that haul, and it's not like the Falcons -- in spite of their record -- don't have real needs at key positions.

secondary?

not so much there, i think. robinson isn't bad even if he hasn't had the impact they hoped right out of the gate. maybe safety but it's not huge. i might say DE or LB but no one is going to have the impact that Jones is going to have. he's a fantastic pick, i think, for that team.

 

[BigJohn]

So let me get this straight... teams that do this for a living made their first round decisions yesterday after countless hours and dollars invested, and even they can't know how any of this will pan out for 2-3 years. Yet a bunch of nobodies sitting at their computers in their underwear, posting on a message board, can know right now who the winners and losers are, no doubt based primarily on opinions spewed by media talking heads who in most cases also know much less than the teams making these decisions. Okie dokie. Knock yourselves out.

Howdy. Carolina is the biggest loser. The team set itself back 3-5 years. Additionally because they took Scam Newton, they will miss out on Andrew Luck even thought there is a great chance they pick #1 again in 2012. Still won't be able to put up points with Sccam. Won't win a game in their division with Scam. One of the tougher divisions in NFL right now. Best hope is to be able to trade the 2012 pick to a team in need of a QB, then watch that team excel while they try and teach Scam how to play NFL QB.

they've drafted a QB in the 1st round 2 years in a row. What's stopping them from doing it a third year?

 

[wadegarrett]

Cleveland: Holy cripe, what a haul for 1 pick! But on the other hand, WTF were they thinking taking Taylor? He totally doesnt fit their D.

X

 

[Caveman_Nick]

I disagree with the Patriots being winners so far. Yes they got great value, as they do every year when they trade down, but eventually they have to start making those picks pay off. To me they are a team that should be making moves to add a key piece or two that will put them in the Superbowl...not deferring to next year.

Amen to this... I guess hindsight is 20/20 and to look back on any team, we'd see, "if we had just drafted so and so" how much better off they may have been. But continually trading down generally seems to be better for a rebuilding team... **Hi Cleveland!** Curious to see how all this trading down will pay off for New England. (though trading up for Gronkowski seems like a recent win.)

I have to disagree with you here. If the Patriots keep taking lat first round picks, moving them to next year and parlaying them into extra second round picks this year, then they have a perpetual stream of extra talent from the top 64 picks. In the last 2 seasons they have done pretty well in rounds 2-420102nd Round (42nd Overall) – Rob Gronkowski, TE, Arizona*2nd Round (53rd Overall) – Jermaine Cunningham, OLB, Florida*2nd Round (62nd Overall) – Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida*3rd Round (90th Overall) – Taylor Price, WR, Ohio4th Round (113th Overall) – Aaron Hernandez, TE, Florida*20092/34 -- Patrick Chung, SS, 5-11, 212, Oregon*2/40 -- Ron Brace, DL, 6-3, 330, Boston College*2/41 -- Darius Butler, CB, 5-10, 183, Connecticut2/58 -- Sebastian Vollmer, OT, 6-7, 312, Houston*3/83 -- Brandon Tate, WR, 6-0, 183, North Carolina*3/97 -- Tyrone McKenzie, OLB, 6-0, 243, South Florida4/123 -- Rich Ohrnberger, G, 6-2, 297, Penn State**All contributers, some more than others.At this point, the only whiff in there is McKenzie. Butler was finally playing decently towards the end of last season, and I have not given up on him yet. Price didn't do much, but then I am not sure he was expected to or asked to as a rookie. The Jury is out. Tate showed some flashes. The Jury is still out.Gronkowski, Cunningham, Spikes, Hernandez, Chung, Brace, Volmer and Ohrnberger have all contributed in meaningful ways. Give me an extra one of these guys every year plus one first round talent instead of getting the one extra first round talent and being done. That sounds like a recipe for sustained excellence to me. All teams have to transition in the current league structure. The Pats seem to be one of the very few organizations that have not fallen off while trying to retool I think this kind of mindset is why.

 

[Tony Jabroni]

Still at the MIN Queens...

 

[FavreCo]

If the draft was the Super Bowl, the Lions would be a dynasty. Seems like every year, people call them "winners" on draft day...and then they do nothing in the actual games. If they're always struggling, were they really winners?I like Suh, but every draft I hear about how awesome the Lions did. When will it ever turn into anything?

It is pretty amazing how long it's been after big name 1st after big name 1st. All the while St. Louis rockets to worst in the league and rebounds quickly. of course, the Rams quickly addressed the #1 issue of every franchise, the QB. It all hinges on Stafford. Picks are a waste if you never can find the franchise QB.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

saying this is a bad pick shows me an uneducated person on the Saints. They needed him bad.Bush suxPierre is always hurtIvory has lisfrancThey were starting Julius Jones in the playoffs, yet you say drafting a Heisman winner and best runner in the draft at 28 is why they lost?

Not only is Thomas often hurt, but he averaged 3.2/carry last year meaning the injuries might have caused a permanent decline already. NO needed a RB. If Ingram is head and shoulders above the others then they made the right move.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I'm pretty happy with what the Falcons did. To be honest, we keep getting these great draft grades under Dimitroff, but he's missed on nearly every pick except for Matt Ryan so far. I'm pretty pumped about Julio and we can fill any necessary holes through FA. I think you'll see a necessary change to our offensive philosophy as well - finally taking the training wheels off of Ryan. Anyway, who knows who will be good and who will bust, but I'm not bothered by the deal to move up and get Julio.

me too. Surprised people are dogging the Falcons. Here's a team that was #1 in the NFC last year, is clearly IN the Super Bowl window, and have to fend off the Saints and the up and coming Bucs in their own division. When Gonzo came over and was still tops, it made a huge difference in how that opened up the run game. I think the Falcons got just what they needed and don't have any holes that they can't easiy address with the rest of the draft/FA. Like someone said above, great teams don't draft based on need. It seems like a lot of people dogging the falcons are looking at this like they are running their fantasy team. But in the real world, the falcons know their window and where they are as a team. To me, this looks like it has the makings of the Colts. Roddy on one side, Jones on the other, Matty throwing it around. The running game still good for a while. The defense solid. Maybe the Falcons take a TE and bring him up as the Colts did Dallas clark. I am happy with the Falcons because at the end of THEIR day, they are a top NFC team with a legit shot to win a Super Bowl and they paly in a tough division.I like what the Redskins did. I don't understand at all what the Chargers did.The Eagles' pick will be better than what people think.No One is talking about the Texans' pick and it might be one of the most impactful ones of the draft.

Look at how much they ave up? I just can't see how AZ (who had been shopping the 5) wouldn't take that deal. "great team don't draft on need" They do when they NEED another CB as everyone's wr3/4 torched us last year. Not saying I HATE the deal, as there is no doubt that this improves the Offense. I just personally think that largely our teams offense is fine and would prefer patrick peterson + 4th round/FA WR2 instead of Julio Jones + 4th rd/FA CB. Peterson is a stud. The NFL is littered with top 10 wr's that never pan out. Also surprised that hey didn't trade this package for 4 and take local guy AJ Green, as that is kind of how they do things down here, and a big time UGA guy on the falcons prolly pays for his salary in spades in marketing/tv revenue etc.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

O.K. So like most Vikings fans upon hearing the news I threw up and then it took my girlfriend about thirty minutes to talk me off my roof.After I get done washing off the hate and drying my eyes I started reading about Ponder. Injury history aside he was one of the more accurate QBs because of his good foot work and was excellent at anticipating throws. Arm strength remains a major concern, but the same was said about Drew Brees and I'm feeling like the Vikings did their homework here. So really then I'm just pissed that the Vikings didn't do something to acquire another pick, move down, and then draft him there. Assuming he's the guy that they want how far could they fall and still get him? My feeling is that Miami had their eye on him and if they were to pass then word was Washington moved down thinking we'd pick either Dalton/Mallet and they get Ponder at 16. Tough to say here if it's really as bad as my initial gut reaction led me to believe. At the end of the day I think the Vikings may not have helped themselves much but they didn't mortgage their future like some teams did either. Homer rationalizing or sound reasoning?Still the way things look now it's going to be a loooong season.

They could've traded down and got ponder at 2.16

So you know they could have gotten Ponder there? Care to tell me tomorrows Power Ball numbers?And it looked as though they tried to trade down.Fans always say "could have traded down"...but it takes another party willing to give up what you want in order to trade down.And neither you, nor I, nor Mel Kiper, nor any NFL GM knows if Ponder would have been there at 2.16.Not that I like the pick all that much for them...just think its funny the armchair GMs of the FFA think they know where a guy might go.

This sounds like what Miami fans said after Ted Ginn was drafted 10.But Ponder wasn't getting rafted in the first 20 picks. They could've probably picked up a 1st next year to drop back to where they could have gotten Ponder.You are right we never 'know', but did anyone else have Ponder higher than qb 6 on their boards? That's what I think a bunch of teams 'miss' about the draft. If you rate player X higher than everyone else and draft him according to your board and not the 'collective board' you miss out on a lot of value. Then again, I didn't get arian foster in any drafts last year because there was always one guy willing to to 'too early', so wth do i know?

 

[Cato]

I disagree with the Patriots being winners so far. Yes they got great value, as they do every year when they trade down, but eventually they have to start making those picks pay off. To me they are a team that should be making moves to add a key piece or two that will put them in the Superbowl...not deferring to next year.

Amen to this... I guess hindsight is 20/20 and to look back on any team, we'd see, "if we had just drafted so and so" how much better off they may have been. But continually trading down generally seems to be better for a rebuilding team... **Hi Cleveland!** Curious to see how all this trading down will pay off for New England. (though trading up for Gronkowski seems like a recent win.)

I have to disagree with you here. If the Patriots keep taking lat first round picks, moving them to next year and parlaying them into extra second round picks this year, then they have a perpetual stream of extra talent from the top 64 picks. In the last 2 seasons they have done pretty well in rounds 2-42010

2nd Round (42nd Overall) – Rob Gronkowski, TE, Arizona*

2nd Round (53rd Overall) – Jermaine Cunningham, OLB, Florida*

2nd Round (62nd Overall) – Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida*

3rd Round (90th Overall) – Taylor Price, WR, Ohio

4th Round (113th Overall) – Aaron Hernandez, TE, Florida*

2009

2/34 -- Patrick Chung, SS, 5-11, 212, Oregon*

2/40 -- Ron Brace, DL, 6-3, 330, Boston College*

2/41 -- Darius Butler, CB, 5-10, 183, Connecticut

2/58 -- Sebastian Vollmer, OT, 6-7, 312, Houston*

3/83 -- Brandon Tate, WR, 6-0, 183, North Carolina*

3/97 -- Tyrone McKenzie, OLB, 6-0, 243, South Florida

4/123 -- Rich Ohrnberger, G, 6-2, 297, Penn State*

*All contributers, some more than others.

At this point, the only whiff in there is McKenzie. Butler was finally playing decently towards the end of last season, and I have not given up on him yet. Price didn't do much, but then I am not sure he was expected to or asked to as a rookie. The Jury is out. Tate showed some flashes. The Jury is still out.

Gronkowski, Cunningham, Spikes, Hernandez, Chung, Brace, Volmer and Ohrnberger have all contributed in meaningful ways. Give me an extra one of these guys every year plus one first round talent instead of getting the one extra first round talent and being done. That sounds like a recipe for sustained excellence to me. All teams have to transition in the current league structure. The Pats seem to be one of the very few organizations that have not fallen off while trying to retool I think this kind of mindset is why.

Good points, maybe I need to reconsider or rephrase. Recently they seemed to have gotten the hang of this. And greatly so. I guess I can't get the memory, of the 2006-2008 drafts. The "lost Drafts" out of my head. "New England Patriots Lost Drafts of 2006-2008" http://internet128.com/index.php/2010/09/15/new-england-patriots-lost-drafts-of-2006-2008/

Should they continue along the path of 2009-2010 drafting, then yes, they would seem to be taken the rest of the league to school on how to potentially perpetuate a dynasty by moving up and down in the draft and recuperating value. Or at least attempt to.

 

[msommer]

So let me get this straight... teams that do this for a living made their first round decisions yesterday after countless hours and dollars invested, and even they can't know how any of this will pan out for 2-3 years. Yet a bunch of nobodies sitting at their computers in their underwear, posting on a message board, can know right now who the winners and losers are, no doubt based primarily on opinions spewed by media talking heads who in most cases also know much less than the teams making these decisions. Okie dokie. Knock yourselves out.

Howdy. Carolina is the biggest loser. The team set itself back 3-5 years. Additionally because they took Scam Newton, they will miss out on Andrew Luck even thought there is a great chance they pick #1 again in 2012. Still won't be able to put up points with Sccam. Won't win a game in their division with Scam. One of the tougher divisions in NFL right now. Best hope is to be able to trade the 2012 pick to a team in need of a QB, then watch that team excel while they try and teach Scam how to play NFL QB.

they've drafted a QB in the 1st round 2 years in a row. What's stopping them from doing it a third year?

Clausen was a second rounder. #48 if I remember correctly

 

[Caveman_Nick]

Good points, maybe I need to reconsider or rephrase. Recently they seemed to have gotten the hang of this. And greatly so. I guess I can't get the memory, of the 2006-2008 drafts. The "lost Drafts" out of my head. "New England Patriots Lost Drafts of 2006-2008" http://internet128.com/index.php/2010/09/15/new-england-patriots-lost-drafts-of-2006-2008/

Should they continue along the path of 2009-2010 drafting, then yes, they would seem to be taken the rest of the league to school on how to potentially perpetuate a dynasty by moving up and down in the draft and recuperating value. Or at least attempt to.

I hear you, although I think that those drafts need to be evaluated considering how they used all of the picks, which also means acquiring Welker and Moss.

 

[flufhed]

Howdy. Carolina is the biggest loser. The team set itself back 3-5 years. Additionally because they took Scam Newton, they will miss out on Andrew Luck even thought there is a great chance they pick #1 again in 2012. Still won't be able to put up points with Sccam. Won't win a game in their division with Scam. One of the tougher divisions in NFL right now. Best hope is to be able to trade the 2012 pick to a team in need of a QB, then watch that team excel while they try and teach Scam how to play NFL QB.

Too much namecalling here for my tastes, but this is my prediction as well - when all is said and done my guess is Carolina fans will want to collectively jump off a cliff when they think about this draft.I care nothing for Carolina, but I hope I'm wrong because I hate to see any teams' fans go through what I think could be a double whammy (stuck with a bust - forced to pass on a can't miss QB).

 

[Cato]

Good points, maybe I need to reconsider or rephrase. Recently they seemed to have gotten the hang of this. And greatly so. I guess I can't get the memory, of the 2006-2008 drafts. The "lost Drafts" out of my head. "New England Patriots Lost Drafts of 2006-2008" http://internet128.com/index.php/2010/09/15/new-england-patriots-lost-drafts-of-2006-2008/

Should they continue along the path of 2009-2010 drafting, then yes, they would seem to be taken the rest of the league to school on how to potentially perpetuate a dynasty by moving up and down in the draft and recuperating value. Or at least attempt to.

I hear you, although I think that those drafts need to be evaluated considering how they used all of the picks, which also means acquiring Welker and Moss.

Fair enough, but imagine, if they had gotten more value of the picks they had drafted with during those years. (on top of Moss and Welker) I think we're both on the same page, their draft manipulation is bar-none, and their drafting has much improved since the Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings days. (they could've picked Jennings had they stayed in their initial slot.) Hence it will likely lead to a strong team moving forward to use this approach.

 

[Boston]

I disagree with the Patriots being winners so far. Yes they got great value, as they do every year when they trade down, but eventually they have to start making those picks pay off. To me they are a team that should be making moves to add a key piece or two that will put them in the Superbowl...not deferring to next year.

Amen to this... I guess hindsight is 20/20 and to look back on any team, we'd see, "if we had just drafted so and so" how much better off they may have been. But continually trading down generally seems to be better for a rebuilding team... **Hi Cleveland!** Curious to see how all this trading down will pay off for New England. (though trading up for Gronkowski seems like a recent win.)

I have to disagree with you here. If the Patriots keep taking lat first round picks, moving them to next year and parlaying them into extra second round picks this year, then they have a perpetual stream of extra talent from the top 64 picks. In the last 2 seasons they have done pretty well in rounds 2-420102nd Round (42nd Overall) – Rob Gronkowski, TE, Arizona*2nd Round (53rd Overall) – Jermaine Cunningham, OLB, Florida*2nd Round (62nd Overall) – Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida*3rd Round (90th Overall) – Taylor Price, WR, Ohio4th Round (113th Overall) – Aaron Hernandez, TE, Florida*20092/34 -- Patrick Chung, SS, 5-11, 212, Oregon*2/40 -- Ron Brace, DL, 6-3, 330, Boston College*2/41 -- Darius Butler, CB, 5-10, 183, Connecticut2/58 -- Sebastian Vollmer, OT, 6-7, 312, Houston*3/83 -- Brandon Tate, WR, 6-0, 183, North Carolina*3/97 -- Tyrone McKenzie, OLB, 6-0, 243, South Florida4/123 -- Rich Ohrnberger, G, 6-2, 297, Penn State**All contributers, some more than others.At this point, the only whiff in there is McKenzie. Butler was finally playing decently towards the end of last season, and I have not given up on him yet. Price didn't do much, but then I am not sure he was expected to or asked to as a rookie. The Jury is out. Tate showed some flashes. The Jury is still out.Gronkowski, Cunningham, Spikes, Hernandez, Chung, Brace, Volmer and Ohrnberger have all contributed in meaningful ways. Give me an extra one of these guys every year plus one first round talent instead of getting the one extra first round talent and being done. That sounds like a recipe for sustained excellence to me. All teams have to transition in the current league structure. The Pats seem to be one of the very few organizations that have not fallen off while trying to retool I think this kind of mindset is why.

Good post but there's one caveat here...Tom Brady is not getting any younger...The good news is the Pats are making quality moves that are bringing in a lot of depth and will help keep them as contenders for as long as Brady has his fastball...the bad news is for this team to win another title they need some more studs/playmakers and they are not adding that type of player...this team is very close but right now they do not have a championship-level defense and on offense they could use a little more giddy-up...so while the trade last night is a very sound move when you ask the question does it bring you closer to a title in 2011 the answer is probably no...

 

[sho nuff]

This sounds like what Miami fans said after Ted Ginn was drafted 10.But Ponder wasn't getting rafted in the first 20 picks. They could've probably picked up a 1st next year to drop back to where they could have gotten Ponder.You are right we never 'know', but did anyone else have Ponder higher than qb 6 on their boards? That's what I think a bunch of teams 'miss' about the draft. If you rate player X higher than everyone else and draft him according to your board and not the 'collective board' you miss out on a lot of value. Then again, I didn't get arian foster in any drafts last year because there was always one guy willing to to 'too early', so wth do i know?

Im not a Vikings fan.So...he would not have gone in the first 20 picks...now = "they could have gotten him at 2.16"? Bit of a backpedal there.Could have probably picked up a 1st next year? According to who? I don't know where other teams had Ponder on their boards.The only info we get is from "experts" who don't work for NFL teams.Why do you think Gosselin does well on his mocks? Its because he does not just scout...he goes by what he hears from people who actually do work for the teams.

 

[Faust]

2011 Draft Analysis - 1st Round

Analysis By ColdHardFootballFacts.com

1. CAR - QB Cam Newton

Carolina took Jimmy Clausen with its first pick last year (in the second round). But they've obviously given up on him after a single year in which the Panthers fielded one of the worst passing attacks in recent memory (32nd in Passer Rating and Passing YPA). Cam Newton will certainly fill seats after a season for the ages at Auburn (2,854 passing yards, 30 TD, 7 INT, 1,473 rushing yards, Heisman Trophy, national title). But he's very thin on experience: just 292 pass attempts in college. He's a project with huge risk but great gifts and great potential upside.

2. DEN - OLB Von Miller

The Broncos made a necessary play to fix major holes on defense by picking Von Miller. He was a devastating pass-rushing linebacker for the Aggies, with 27 sacks over the past two years, including an incredible 17 as a junior in 2009. He's also versatile, and played defensive end. Miller was the top linebacker on most boards, including ours, that values onfield production over hype, headlines and combine workouts. Denver desperately needs the help: dead last in 2010 in scoring defense (29.4 PPG) and sacks (23).

3. BUF - DT Marcell Dareus

Dareus is a versatile interior lineman who played for the dominant defenses at Alabama under Nick Saban, one of the great defensive coaches in college football and a great producer of pro talent. The Bills certainly drafted smartly for need. They were dead last in 2010 in both run defense (allowing 4.76 YPA) and on our Defensive Hog Index, which measures defensive fronts in several key areas. The potential downside? There were several interior defensive lineman available who gave more dominant production inside than Dareus's 11 tackles for loss and 4.5 sacks.

4. CIN - WR A.J. Green

Bad organizations make bad draft-day decisions. The Bengals are a bad organization. And they made yet another bad draft-day decision. First-round wide receivers have an incredibly high rate of failure in the NFL. And the team has already tried and failed to win under the mistaken assumption that teams are built around wide receivers. Green is a great talent and could become a big-time NFL wideout. Regardless, the Bengals would have been better served with a stud interior lineman or pass rusher to shore up a defense that ranked 21st against the run (4.43 YPA) and 24th at rushing the passer (sack or INT on 7.95 percent of dropbacks).

5. ARZ - CB Patrick Peterson

The most obvious need was at quarterback, where the Cardinals failed miserably last year in their effort to replace Kurt Warner. But the uber-talented Peterson was just too appealing to pass up with the No. 5 pick. He's a big, fast and very young (turns 21 in July) playmaker at the most important position on defense, cornerback. He should instantly inject life into a unit that ranked 30th in scoring defense last year (27.1 PPG).

6. ATL - WR Julio Jones

Atlanta traded up with Cleveland for the No. 6 pick. They had two obvious needs: a playmaker in the passing game and a playmaker on the defensive line. They opted for the former with Jones, who was an open-field gamebreaker in Alabama's run-first offense. Again, picking WRs high in the draft is almost always a bad decision. There's a high fate of failure at a position that really has minimal impact on the success of a team, despite the NFL's obsession with the position. But the Falcons felt the need to give QB Matt Ryan some help: despite his big-time rep, Atlanta ranked just 19th last year in average per pass attempt.

7. S.F. - DE Aldon Smith

Smith was a defensive end at Missouri who projects as a pass-rushing outside linebacker with the 49ers. Size is an issue for the lanky defender (6-4, 263) in run defense. In either case, it's a very curious selection: the defensive front was San FRancisco's greatest strength in 2010. They were No. 2 in run defense (3.46 YPA) and No. 10 overall on our Defensive Hog Index. New coach Jim Harbaugh most love Smith's potential, because the team has much greater needs elsewhere, especially on offense, where they scored just 19.1 PPG last year.

8. TEN - QB Jake Locker

Locker is the first big shock of the draft: most experts had him projected as, at best, the third quarterback taken in the draft, after No. 1 pick Newton and then Blaine Gabbert. The Titans need help at the position, where Vince Young is out and Kerry Collins is old. Not sure Locker is the answer. He's very inaccurate. He completed just 55.4 percent of his passes in 2010, after a big effort by Washington coach (and former BYU QB and USC OC) Steve Sarkisian in the previous off-season to boost his accuracy.

9. DAL - T Tyron Smith

We suppose you can never have too many quality offensive linemen in the NFL. But with that said, drafting an offensive tackle was a bad decision by Dallas. The team surrendered a franchise-worst 436 points in 2010, and despite all the high draft picks and big names on defense, they desperately needed more help from front to back. Last we checked, Dallas averaged 29.1 PPG in eight games under head coach Jason Garrett. Yet they left a dominant defender like Auburn's Nick Fairley sitting on the board.

10. JAC - QB Blaine Gabbert

Two big problems with this pick. One, Gabbert was beloved by all the draft experts. But the truth is that he regressed badly after his prolific sophomore season of 2009. And two, the problem in Jacksonville was not at QB. The problem was the single worst pass defense in all of football: the Jaguars ranked 31st in what we call Defensive Passer Rating (a measure of pass-defense efficiency), 32nd in passing yards per attempt against (torched for 7.53 YPA every time an opposing QB dropped back to pass); and 31st on our Defensive Hog Index, which measures each defensive front. Anything but a big-time stopper on pass defense was a mistake.

11. HOU - DE J.J. Watt

If first you don't succeed, try, try again. The Texans have devoted incredible draft resources to big-name defenders throughout their history (DeMeco Ryans, Mario Williams, Conner Barwin, et. al.). It's produced scant results. The team is consistently one of the worst defenses in football, and 2010 was no exception. Watt brings great size and athleticism as an outside pass rusher. But there wasn't a lot of production at Wisconsin: just 11.5 sacks in two years. He appears to be a reach at the No. 11 pick and could prove another high-drafted underachiever on the Texans defense.

12. MIN - QB Christian Ponder

There's no doubt the Vikings needed a quarterback after the lost season of 2010. The team was 28th league wide in average per pass attempt and No. 30 in team-wide passer rating. So there's nowhere to go but up. But Ponder does not appear to be the answer. His track record at Florida State was non-descript and he's quite a reach at the No. 12 overall pick, especially with guys like TCU's Andy Dalton still on the board -- a proven winner with better production. But desperate teams do desperate things, and that appears to be the case with Minnesota.

13. DET - DT Nick Fairley

The Lions may have landed great value with Fairley at the No. 13 pick. He was the top defender on the national champion Auburn defense and a true train-wrecker of an interior lineman. He chalked up 11.5 sacks and 24 tackles for loss in 2010, incredible numbers for a DT -- better than many of the pure pass rushers in the draft, including several taken ahead of him. His stock appeared to drop in recent weeks over questions about work ethic. But if he lives up to the potential, the Lions will have the NFLs deadliest combination of young defensive linemen with Fairley and last year's No. 1, Ndamukong Suh.

14. STL - DE Robert Quinn

Coach Steve Spagnuolo has sent a very clear message to the NFL: he's going to win with his Defensive Hogs. He was the defensive coordinator for a Giants team that won a Super Bowl and shocked the Patriots in 2007 on the strength of the NFL's best defensive front. And last year, the improvement of the St. Louis Defensive Hogs was the great untold statistical story of 2010. Quinn brings plenty of speed and perhaps the best upside of any defensive lineman in the draft. But he has question marks: he did not play in 2010, suspended because of illegal contact with an agent.

15. MIA - G Michael Pouncey

The Dolphins certainly need help everywhere on offense, so you can't argue with an interior lineman, especially for a club that struggled so badly to run the football: with an average of 3.71 YPA, Miami was 29th in the NFL on the ground. Pouncey was a big force at Florida for two seasons at guard, before replacing his brother, Maurkice, now of the Steelers, at center last year. He even played a few games at defensive tackle.

16. WAS - DE Ryan Kerrigan

The All-America defensive end might be a big steal at the No. 16 pick. Kerrigan was the most productive defensive lineman in major college football last year, with a nation-best 26 tackles for loss, 12.5 sacks and five forced fumbles (second in the nation). It's also a great selection based upon need. The Redskins last year fielded one of the worst defensive fronts in football -- No. 26 on what we call the Defensive Hog Index. And they were 30th in the NFL rushing the passer, forcing a sack or INT on just 7.1 percent of dropbacks. Kerrigan has the potential to make an immediate impact.

17. N.E. - T Nate Solder

Nobody throws draft-day curveballs like Bill Belichick, and the Colorado tackle is yet another example. The Patriots fielded the best offensive line in football last year (according to our Offensive Hog Index) and one of the worst defensive fronts in football. The lack of a pass rush has haunted the Patriots for years, including in the 2010 playoff loss to the Jets. It's easily the No. 1 need. But the team must feel vulnerable protecting Tom Brady with OL stalwarts Logan Mankins and Matt Light big free agency question marks.

18. S.D. - DE Corey Liuget

The run on defensive lineman continues. Liuget is the seventh in the first 18 picks. He's undersized for an interior players (6-2, 298) and a stretch as a top 20 pick. He's brings great speed and athleticism to the position, but it's a curious selection: the Chargers boasted one of the most dominating defensive fronts in football last year tied with Pittsburgh for No. 1 on our Defensive Hog Index, despite the loss of Jamal Williams. Liuget certainly cannot fill the shoes of the massive Williams.

19. N.Y. Giants - CB Prince Amukamara

Big Blue just landed a great deal, at least if Amukamara lives up to his potential. A sizable but speedy (4.49 in the 40) cornerback, he was the best defender on Bo Pelini's revitalized Black Shirts defense in Nebraska. A great stat? Opponents completed just 18 passes against him all season. New York was stout on defense last year, but it can't hurt to add a potential shutdown corner.

20. T.B. - DE Adrian Clayborn

A great selection for a team on the rise. The Bucs boast a great young quarterback who's flying under the radar in Josh Freeman, their offensive line was stout and they have great offensive playmakers in RB LeGarrette Blount and WR Mike Williams. The glaring weakness was on the defensive front, where the Bucs couldn't stop the run (4.75 YPA against) and ranked No. 30 on our Defensive Hog Index. The first-team All America defensive end could instantly inject playmaking capabilities into a unit that desperately needs it.

21. CLE - DT Phil Taylor

The Browns scored just 16.9 PPG in 2010. Only the Panthers were worse. The Panthers drafted potential gamebreaker Cam Newton? What did the sad-sack Browns do to kick off the Pat Shurmur era with their first pick? Yup, they continued the run on defensive linemen. Taylor is a beefy fireplug of an interior defender with the potential to swallow offenses. He could be a great player. But he does little to add life to an offense that is consistently one of the worst in football.

22. IND - T Anthony Castonzo

The Colts know their bread is buttered by Peyton Manning. So they drafted a potential franchise left tackle in Castonzo to protect their quarterback. But it was the wrong pick, at least if you value need. The Colts were the best team in football last year protecting the passer, suffering a sack or INT on just 4.7 percent of dropbacks. They were woefully inadequate on the other side of the ball, forcing a sack or INT on just 7.1 percent of dropbacks. Only the dreadful Denver defense was worse at pressuring the passer. Sure, Manning will have plenty of time in the pocket again in 2011, but it won't help if the defense is pushed around the field, yet again, like a tackling sled.

23. PHI - G Danny Watkins

The Eagles grabbed one of the more interesting stories in the draft: a former firefighter from Canada turned big-time college offensive lineman despite the fact he never played high school football. With that said, it's a curious pick: the Eagles averaged 5.45 yards per rush attempt in 2010, making them one of the most effective rushing teams in the history of football. And QB Michael Vick has proven he can make plays even if the pocket collapses around him. The Eagles still need to find playmakers later in the draft or in free agency. The missed an opportunity to do it here.

24. N.O. - DE Cameron Jordan

That's now 10 defensive linemen in the first 24 picks (compare that not a single RB has been selected). The Saints could certainly benefit from Jordan's speed and athleticism on the edge: he chalked up six sacks and 12.5 tackles for loss last season. The Saints, meanwhile, struggled badly to pressure the quarterback in 2010 and their pass defense fell off badly from its championship form of 2009.

25. SEA - T James Carpenter

Carpenter was projected in many circles as a second rounder and has been criticized for a lack of athleticism. But he did prosper for two years at left tackle for great Alabama teams. He also represents a good, solid, needs-based pick for the Seahawks. Although everybody remembers Marshawn Lynch's incredible run against the Saints in the 2010 playoffs, Seattle was one of the worst rushing teams in the NFL last year (3.7 yards per attempt, 30th) and can definitely use the beef and brawn that Carpenter brings to the table.

26. K.C. - WR Jonathan Baldwin

Normally, wide receivers are bad first-round decisions. But the Chiefs were fairly stout in many areas last year, except in their downfield passing game. Matt Cassel and the Kansas City offense produce just 18 pass plays of 25+ yards, among the fewest in the league, and their statistical weak link was passing yards per attempt: 23rd league wide. They simply could not threaten defenses over the top. Baldwin is a very big target (6-4, 228) with 4.5 speed who can help Kansas City stretch defenses and open up lanes for the explosive Jamaal Charles to run the ball.

27. BAL - CB Jimmy Smith

A productive corner with good size, but many observers doubt his ability to be a shutdown corner in the NFL. In either case, the Ravens would have been better served beefing up the ground game and the offensive line. RB Ray Rice and LT Michael Oher have big-time name recognition, but the Ravens did not protect Joe Flacco particularly well and offered one of the least explosive rushing attacks in football last year (28th in average per attempt). And there was 2009 Heisman Trophy winning RB Mark Ingram, sitting there for the taking when Baltimore made its selection.

28. N.O. - RB Mark Ingram

The great Alabama running back and 2009 Heisman winner was just too rich a prospect and value for the Saints to resist at No. 28. In terms of need, New Orleans would have been better served with a gamebreaker in pass defense which dropped off badly in 2010 from its Super Bowl form of 2009. But Ingram is a potential franchise back in the physical mold of another SEC great, Emmitt Smith.

29. CHI - T Gabe Carimi

The Bears made the perfect pick, at least if the long and rangy OT lives up to his potential. Carimi was a four-year starter, and is a potential franchise LT, who is strong in both pass protection and in run blocking. His Wisconsin offense rushed for 48 TDs in 2010 and fell just a few yards shy of producing three 1,000-yard rushers in the same backfield. Chicago desperately needs that kind of production: the Bears were dead last in 2010 on what we call the Offensive Hog Index - the worst offensive line in football - as equally inept protecting the passer as they were rushing the football.

30. N.Y. Jets - DT Muhammad Wilkerson

Rex Ryan loves hid defensive linemen. And with Jets DL stalwart Shaun Ellis a potential victim of free agency, the team may need some help up front. Plus, the defense certainly didn't perform as well in 2010 (304 points allowed) as it did in 2009 (236 points allowed). Wilkerson probably doesn't have the size to be a fulltime nose tackle, but he's athletic and versatile enough to move around up front in Ryan's always-shifting base 3-4.

31. PIT - DE Cameron Heyward

The Steelers used this pick to accentuate a strength (the league's most productive Defensive Hogs) rather than fill an obvious need (a porous offensive line). Most teams deserve criticism for that kind of move. But Pittsburgh is consistently the best-drafting team in football and its strategy obviously works. Heyward, the son of former NFL running back "Iron Head" Heyward has great upside. But the Steelers may live to regret the pick if Ben Roethlisberger is forced to run for his life in the backfield yet again.

32. G.B. - T Derek Sherrod

The Packers were a statistical powerhouse on both sides of the ball in 2010. If we didn't see it in their 10-6 record in the regular season, we saw it In their impressive Super Bowl-winning playoff run. The only relative weakness? That's right: offensive line. The Packers ran the ball poorly and struggled to protect Aaron Rodgers at various times throughout the season. Green Bay looks like it found its franchise left tackle in Bryan Bulaga last year. But Sherrod, if he lives up to his potential, could challenge for the blindside spot and, at the very least, he can upgrade an already scary Green Bay offense. He was the best lineman lest year for the SEC's best rushing attack.

 

[T with T]

Minnesota is easily the biggest FAIL.

obviously for passing on Fairley, the most dominating player in college football and the best DL in college football I may add for a guy named Christian Ponder.... geez. they could have got fairly and taken mallet or someone else in the 2nd... dummies

 

[T with T]

The Vikings pooped in their mouths tonight.

sounds pretty disgusting, something like that... Whatever they did, they didn't think it thru smart.... Im sure they could have used Fairly, any team could, and even if they would have grabbed Amukamara 12, that would have been cool, but who they took and where they drafted him they really suck..winners Detroit by far got the steal of the draft.. Fairly can be as good as SUH... Fairly is like SUH while I think Dareus will be like a G. mccoy

 

[T with T]

OK serious question if Fairley is so good why did he slide to 13? seems odd, no? I wouldnt be all ready to claim Detroit the big winner yet.Personally I like what cleveland did, I wanted Phil taylor over Liuget for SD.

Fairley's work ethic has been questioned a lot since the combime. Rumors of him not finishing drills I think is one of the big reasons why he fell.

not to mention they say he is sort of a dirty player and didn't interview well... All that BS aside, I think Fairly is an absolute beast and came to play in the toughest conference in college football and dominated in the toughest conf in football... CHAMPION and MVP... look at numbers and results

 

[Caveman_Nick]

Good post but there's one caveat here...Tom Brady is not getting any younger...The good news is the Pats are making quality moves that are bringing in a lot of depth and will help keep them as contenders for as long as Brady has his fastball...the bad news is for this team to win another title they need some more studs/playmakers and they are not adding that type of player...this team is very close but right now they do not have a championship-level defense and on offense they could use a little more giddy-up...so while the trade last night is a very sound move when you ask the question does it bring you closer to a title in 2011 the answer is probably no...

I totally understand where you are coming from. I tend to try to look at things in terms of how they fit with the organizational philosophy. In this case I think that the organizational philosophy os that they don;t need another stud. They need a few of the players they already have to play better. They seem to have gotten back to the lunch pail paradigm that won them their first 3 championships. They went the route of adding studs on offense and defense, and it didn't get them where they needed to be.I would also add that (and I think people forget this) the team that lost in the playoffs last year after going 14-2 is getting back Leigh Bodden, Ty Warren, Nick Kaczur, Kevin Faulk and Brandon McGowan. Ty Warren and Leigh Bodden will make a nice difference starting on Defense and Nick Kaczur on the OLine. That's 3 high quality players that people are not accounting for.This thread is about the draft, and this gets off topic, but I like the way they handle the team. I'd prefer to maintain rather than swing for the fences. They are there every year, and frankly if TB had just played better vs. the Jets they would have been hosting the championship game. It wasn't a playmaker on defense that kept them out of it.I say stick with the philosophy and keep drafting and developing that second round talent. Makes me feel better about the cost of my season tickets

 

[Boston]

Good post but there's one caveat here...Tom Brady is not getting any younger...The good news is the Pats are making quality moves that are bringing in a lot of depth and will help keep them as contenders for as long as Brady has his fastball...the bad news is for this team to win another title they need some more studs/playmakers and they are not adding that type of player...this team is very close but right now they do not have a championship-level defense and on offense they could use a little more giddy-up...so while the trade last night is a very sound move when you ask the question does it bring you closer to a title in 2011 the answer is probably no...

I totally understand where you are coming from. I tend to try to look at things in terms of how they fit with the organizational philosophy. In this case I think that the organizational philosophy os that they don;t need another stud. They need a few of the players they already have to play better. They seem to have gotten back to the lunch pail paradigm that won them their first 3 championships. They went the route of adding studs on offense and defense, and it didn't get them where they needed to be.I would also add that (and I think people forget this) the team that lost in the playoffs last year after going 14-2 is getting back Leigh Bodden, Ty Warren, Nick Kaczur, Kevin Faulk and Brandon McGowan. Ty Warren and Leigh Bodden will make a nice difference starting on Defense and Nick Kaczur on the OLine. That's 3 high quality players that people are not accounting for.This thread is about the draft, and this gets off topic, but I like the way they handle the team. I'd prefer to maintain rather than swing for the fences. They are there every year, and frankly if TB had just played better vs. the Jets they would have been hosting the championship game. It wasn't a playmaker on defense that kept them out of it.I say stick with the philosophy and keep drafting and developing that second round talent. Makes me feel better about the cost of my season tickets

We agree to a point...they don't need to be swinging for the fences or going out and trading for a big name just for the sake of making a move...they have a very sound philosophy and it is paying off..that being said they are starting to turn into the Ray Bourque Bruins...a team that is very good in the regular season and capable of beating anyone but just not having enough horses to win a title...when the Pats lost guys like Willie, Ty Law, Vrabel, Rodney and Bruschi they didn't just lose good players, they lost playmakers...to continue winning without these guys is a testament to the organization...that being said they have not replaced those playmaking skills and that's been the difference between championships and loses...until this team adds more playmakers I truly believe they will not win another title...I am not advocating foolish moves or deals of desperation...just use all your assets while Brady is in his prime and put yourself in the best possible position to win another title or two because having a player like #12 may never happen again...

 

[stbugs]

Good post but there's one caveat here...Tom Brady is not getting any younger...The good news is the Pats are making quality moves that are bringing in a lot of depth and will help keep them as contenders for as long as Brady has his fastball...the bad news is for this team to win another title they need some more studs/playmakers and they are not adding that type of player...this team is very close but right now they do not have a championship-level defense and on offense they could use a little more giddy-up...so while the trade last night is a very sound move when you ask the question does it bring you closer to a title in 2011 the answer is probably no...

I totally understand where you are coming from. I tend to try to look at things in terms of how they fit with the organizational philosophy. In this case I think that the organizational philosophy os that they don;t need another stud. They need a few of the players they already have to play better. They seem to have gotten back to the lunch pail paradigm that won them their first 3 championships. They went the route of adding studs on offense and defense, and it didn't get them where they needed to be.I would also add that (and I think people forget this) the team that lost in the playoffs last year after going 14-2 is getting back Leigh Bodden, Ty Warren, Nick Kaczur, Kevin Faulk and Brandon McGowan. Ty Warren and Leigh Bodden will make a nice difference starting on Defense and Nick Kaczur on the OLine. That's 3 high quality players that people are not accounting for.This thread is about the draft, and this gets off topic, but I like the way they handle the team. I'd prefer to maintain rather than swing for the fences. They are there every year, and frankly if TB had just played better vs. the Jets they would have been hosting the championship game. It wasn't a playmaker on defense that kept them out of it.I say stick with the philosophy and keep drafting and developing that second round talent. Makes me feel better about the cost of my season tickets

Ummm, the Pats were one miracle play away from having an undefeated season with the studs. Doesn't mean that they should swing for the fences, but I think that every once in a while it isn't a bad thing. As you say, they could have 3 more quality players without the draft, so why not go for the fences? What if Ingram really is that good? They still had 2 more second round picks. What if AJ Green ends up being a Calvin Johnson/Andre Johnson? Maybe the Pats are ridiculous on offense again. They had enough to offer to move up.Randy Moss helped Brady get his best season by a long shot and they almost when 19-0. A 14-2 team with 3 quality starters doesn't need a lot, so maybe one year you shoot for the moon and become unstoppable instead of maintaining. They got a lot closer to winning it all in 2007 than they did last year.

 

[Polar Dude]

Atlanta's pick reminds me of the Saints giving up their entire draft for Ricky Williams or the Vikings handing multiple SBs to Dallas in exchange for Herschel Walker. I'm sure there are plenty of good examples of NFL teams giving up a ton of good picks for one guy, but I'm having trouble thinking of any.

 

[jurb26]

My "winners" so far:

Det & St. L - I had Fairley/Quinn rated as players 5a/5b in this class. For these teams to get them at 13 & 14 was great value. Det didn't need Fairely, but like they have done since 2009 they have drafted the BPA on their board IMO. I love the strategy and I think it's pretty clearly paying off. St. L also went BPA but Quinn also happens to fill a major need. Double bonus!

NYG - I haven't been a huge fan of Prince, as a matter of fact I've gone on record saying Smith was the better prospect. None the less, getting Prince as late as NYG did was huge value.

NO - Jordan is a top 15 player in this draft IMO. I'm surprised he fell all the way to all the way to 24 where NO even had a sniff at him. Then NO trades up to grab the best RB in the draft, Ingram. Ingram is also a top 15 player in this draft based on talent alone. RB value has been killed in the NFL however so the rich get richer here.

Honorable mention, Wash - I'm not super excited about the Kerrigan pick but it was certainly solid and nice value. Wash desperately needed more picks in this draft and they got them by trading down. I think they had 1 QB (more than likely Locker) high on their board and once he was taken they knew they were bailing out of the pick.

 

[Detroit Revival]

If the draft was the Super Bowl, the Lions would be a dynasty. Seems like every year, people call them "winners" on draft day...and then they do nothing in the actual games. If they're always struggling, were they really winners?I like Suh, but every draft I hear about how awesome the Lions did. When will it ever turn into anything?

To answer your question, this year. Also, a lot of us have scratched our heads in the recent past at Lions draft picks... Gosder Cherilus anyone? I also remember us drafting three WRs in three consecutive 1st rds... This is within the last 10 years. None of those were winners, and we knew it then. I'm satisfied to call this one what it is, a great draft so far for the lions.

 

[Bob Magaw]

obligatory, incorrigible rams homer pick...

but i think quinn will be a nice complement to long, who broke out in 2010...

medical is scary, but if it is stable, not like bowers knee question... a few teams took him off the board, but that means maybe about 30 vetted/greenlit him...

the off-field red flag not NEARLY as big a concern as BAL's CB...

he doesn't seem to have larger character questions... unlike recent horror stories with players missing a year (like clarett and BMW - who redeemed himself somewhat last year), he showed up at the combine in shape and ready to go...

there are questions about his size, power & effectiveness in run support, but as mayock pointed out, the last film on him was when he was just 19, and he has yet to grow into his body... anyways, if he becomes an elite edge rusher, they can live with him not being a justin smith in the run game... dwight freeney is a game changer, despite being a liability against the run...

he was a three time state champ as a heavyweight wrestler (first in SC?)... wrestling skills can translate well to the NFL, especially as lineman (lower body power, leverage, balance, stamina and endurance, etc)... rare physical specimen and tremendously gifted and explosive athlete... father reportedly an olympic caliber hurdler, and he broke julius pepper's mark in the 40 in college...

mayock thought he had the most upside of any pass rusher in the draft...

quinn has massive upside at a high impact position... where would he have gone with no medical questions, and if he had played last year at a high level... top 3-5?

the rams do need help on offense (especially at WR and backup/rotational RB), and they should get some in the upcoming rounds (only one RB & three WRs off the board so far, with STL having mid-round picks in 2-3), but they also need to close out games better on defense... if bradford starts where he left off last year, he looks like one of the better young QBs in the league, the offense is already vastly improved over the offenses that won just six games between 2008-2010...

* as to the rest of the league, without too much repetition of what has been said...

NE is masterful at accumulating picks and seemingly loaded for bear, not just every draft, but extending to the following year... nice place to be for what is already one of the premier teams in the league...

any team is going to look good getting two firsts like the saints... they did give up a first in 2012, but that should be a very low pick barring catastrophe, and they got better on both sides of the ball... with their passing attack, if ingram is as good as advertised (his physical tools and skill set look like they should translate extremely well to the next level - RB value has become marginalized in an increasingly pass-centric game, and there was a run on QBs and DL, pushing him down - lowest first RB selected in history of the common draft?), that offense could be unstoppable... they were decimated at the position last year...

as has been pointed out, ATL coughed up a lot to get jones, but if he really is a missing piece of the puzzle-type player that elevates them to the super bowl in the future, this looks brilliant and a stroke of genius... jones represents a slight upgrade over michael jenkins... i think ATL has been fairly conservative about moving around in the relatively brief dimitroff-era (albeit with great results), so interesting to see him make a bold move... the concentration drops are a concern...

sometimes moves are dictated by the divisional landscape... DET needs to put rodgers on the ground (HOUs inability to consistently get to manning, despite making multiple moves in this direction, has a been a rate limiting step on their ascension, despite a juggernaut offense - a lousy secondary, too, but they are related)... suh and fairly together are frightening, and could be the top interior DL in the league very soon... pressure from up the middle is the worst kind for a QB (they just need to box rodgers in from the sides, to prevent using his mobility)...

i like where the QBs landed... i think this will be a good class...

newton - has roethlisberger-like traits and attributes, as far as size and ability to keep plays alive with his feet and athleticism... they have the potential for a good OL and running game, despite last year's implosion... if he fulfills his potential, will be a handful for opposing defenses (assuming they get him more weapons)...

locker - good OL, didn't have chris johnson to hand off to in college, great intangibles and leadership ability... as with fellow running QB newton, they can tailor a passing game around his movement skills...

gabbert - garrard could start for a time still, but clearly the organization has seen enough and doesn't think he can get them to the mountain top... it wouldn't have been a big surprise if he had gone in top four, so good value... and with a few QB-hungry teams like WAS and MIN laying in the weeds, they were able to move up without breaking the bank, for a potential franchise QB... smart move.

ponder - i saw some throws in game highlights where he didn't have much mustard on his fastball, but perhaps he was hindered by injury... i saw other times in senior bowl practice where he was able to stick the throw on out routes... clearly musgrave (who came from ATL) sees some ryan in him, in terms of football IQ and intangibles... some scouts thought he was the clear best pick to implement a west coast type attack... i agree he could end up being the best fit of all the QBs in the first round... also, they could possibly get mcnabb as an interim solution for a year or so... if WAS was linked to ponder, than MIN probably had to take him about where they did... despite that, if it wouldn't have been a surprise for him to go somewhere around 20-25, not a massive reach, for such a high impact position, if they think he has the intangibles to be the guy... with the top three QBs off the board, how much longer was he going to last?

of course, the giants got awesome value for the CB...

 

[kstockwell]

Good post but there's one caveat here...Tom Brady is not getting any younger...The good news is the Pats are making quality moves that are bringing in a lot of depth and will help keep them as contenders for as long as Brady has his fastball...the bad news is for this team to win another title they need some more studs/playmakers and they are not adding that type of player...this team is very close but right now they do not have a championship-level defense and on offense they could use a little more giddy-up...so while the trade last night is a very sound move when you ask the question does it bring you closer to a title in 2011 the answer is probably no...

I totally understand where you are coming from. I tend to try to look at things in terms of how they fit with the organizational philosophy. In this case I think that the organizational philosophy os that they don;t need another stud. They need a few of the players they already have to play better. They seem to have gotten back to the lunch pail paradigm that won them their first 3 championships. They went the route of adding studs on offense and defense, and it didn't get them where they needed to be.I would also add that (and I think people forget this) the team that lost in the playoffs last year after going 14-2 is getting back Leigh Bodden, Ty Warren, Nick Kaczur, Kevin Faulk and Brandon McGowan. Ty Warren and Leigh Bodden will make a nice difference starting on Defense and Nick Kaczur on the OLine. That's 3 high quality players that people are not accounting for.This thread is about the draft, and this gets off topic, but I like the way they handle the team. I'd prefer to maintain rather than swing for the fences. They are there every year, and frankly if TB had just played better vs. the Jets they would have been hosting the championship game. It wasn't a playmaker on defense that kept them out of it.I say stick with the philosophy and keep drafting and developing that second round talent. Makes me feel better about the cost of my season tickets

A few other things to consider when evaluating the Pats picks. Even though I was hoping for a pass rusher with the first round picks, I think Solder was a very wise pick. Brady is critical to the success of this team and we needed to address this position. Given the fact that the league will most likely be going to an 18 game schedule, this makes this position all the more important. While drafting Ingram at 28 would have created some excitement, my head tells me that RB is not a position that you need to draft in the first round. There are still lots of good players in the 2nd round (maybe a RB that is almost comparable to Ingram with the Saints pick?). Lets hope the Saints don't finish well this year . There is still free agency and the pats should have some $$ to plug a hole or two if needed. I think next year is when we see them start to target positional needs with elite prospects (but I'm not betting any $ on this).

 

[Breesisdaman]

...Ingram is already the best RB on Supe contenders.. they didn't give up alot to get him-W...

They gave up a #2 this year and a #1 in 2012. That is a lot for a late 1st round pick. If it works out, it will be worth it. However, if something goes wrong, it will be a high price to pay.

Actually they traded number 1 picks with the Pats. Next years for this years and it cost them a second rounder to entice New England to go for it. Steep but not too steep IMO. If Ingram pans out it was best available player and a need position considering it was the injurys and inadequate play at RB that keep the Saints from going deep into the playoffs last year.Win

 

[Funkley]

Can we end the Mallet talk yet? Should be clear by now no one likes him.

 

[Couch Potato]

Too late to delete my controversial post I guess... ha ha haOK, here's mine. They all screwed up. Mallett will be the best QB and also the best rapper of this draft, and nobody took him yet!

uh... stuck behind Brady now. Scratch that.

 

[Donnybrook]

I hope we can preserve this thread for posterity.

 

[Donnybrook]

So let me get this straight... teams that do this for a living made their first round decisions yesterday after countless hours and dollars invested, and even they can't know how any of this will pan out for 2-3 years. Yet a bunch of nobodies sitting at their computers in their underwear, posting on a message board, can know right now who the winners and losers are, no doubt based primarily on opinions spewed by media talking heads who in most cases also know much less than the teams making these decisions. Okie dokie. Knock yourselves out.

This deserves a bump. Some of you wannabe scouts should try to keep your day jobs.I can tell you that I am not disdappointed that the Vikings passed on Nick Fairley for Ponder.

 

[Wadsworth]

So let me get this straight... teams that do this for a living made their first round decisions yesterday after countless hours and dollars invested, and even they can't know how any of this will pan out for 2-3 years. Yet a bunch of nobodies sitting at their computers in their underwear, posting on a message board, can know right now who the winners and losers are, no doubt based primarily on opinions spewed by media talking heads who in most cases also know much less than the teams making these decisions. Okie dokie. Knock yourselves out.

Howdy. Carolina is the biggest loser. The team set itself back 3-5 years. Additionally because they took Scam Newton, they will miss out on Andrew Luck even thought there is a great chance they pick #1 again in 2012. Still won't be able to put up points with Sccam. Won't win a game in their division with Scam. One of the tougher divisions in NFL right now. Best hope is to be able to trade the 2012 pick to a team in need of a QB, then watch that team excel while they try and teach Scam how to play NFL QB.

Sorry FavreCo, but this is too good to pass up.

 

[bucksoh]

So let me get this straight... teams that do this for a living made their first round decisions yesterday after countless hours and dollars invested, and even they can't know how any of this will pan out for 2-3 years. Yet a bunch of nobodies sitting at their computers in their underwear, posting on a message board, can know right now who the winners and losers are, no doubt based primarily on opinions spewed by media talking heads who in most cases also know much less than the teams making these decisions. Okie dokie. Knock yourselves out.

This deserves a bump. Some of you wannabe scouts should try to keep your day jobs.I can tell you that I am not disdappointed that the Vikings passed on Nick Fairley for Ponder.

What for I was right and still have my night job. Not saying I won't be wrong in 5 years but the immediate future, I was right.

 

[Donnybrook]

What for I was right and still have my night job. Not saying I won't be wrong in 5 years but the immediate future, I was right.

I was referring to the know-it-alls that were pre-judging the Vikings draft. I might be jumping the gun but I believe the Vikings can build around Ponder.

 

[Bankerguy]

Dallas gets an A for the Smith pick. He is already our best lineman.

 

[Topes]

I drafted Scam Newton in the 15th round of my redraft.

Guy two picks after me drafted Cam Newton.

I got scammed.