Draft Drama: Barron over Claiborne? (1 Viewer)

[Premier]

I'm a huge Barron fan. I think in the end we'll consider both Claiborne and Barron elite players in the NFL. As of yesterday, however, Claiborne was clearly the more valuable player and TB didn't take advantage of that either by drafting him or maximizing trade value. I don't care what the trade chart says, Jacksonville was the 7th team picking in a draft that had 6 elite prospects. By definition, the 7th slot was the worst in the entire draft and should have commanded more than a 4th.

However you look at it, one of two things definitely happened:

1): Tampa actually wanted Claiborne and risked him for a 4th rounder.

2): Tampa wanted Barron all along and actually thought a 4th rounder was good value.

Who says their are only 6 premier prospects though? You? Mel Kiper? If the Bucs front office and their scouting staff thought there were 7 and had Barron on that list, then it's perfectly reasonable. People just spout their opinions or Kiper's or McShay's as if they are proven fact or something.

I'm not spouting off as if I know an NFL team's draft board because of what Mel Kiper told me.

 

[Grahamburn]

I'm a huge Barron fan. I think in the end we'll consider both Claiborne and Barron elite players in the NFL. As of yesterday, however, Claiborne was clearly the more valuable player and TB didn't take advantage of that either by drafting him or maximizing trade value. I don't care what the trade chart says, Jacksonville was the 7th team picking in a draft that had 6 elite prospects. By definition, the 7th slot was the worst in the entire draft and should have commanded more than a 4th.However you look at it, one of two things definitely happened: 1): Tampa actually wanted Claiborne and risked him for a 4th rounder.2): Tampa wanted Barron all along and actually thought a 4th rounder was good value.

Claiborne may have been more valuable to fans or draft experts, but he clearly wasn't more valuable to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Mark Dominik turned that 4th rounder into Doug Martin, and then later turned it into LaVonte David. That 4th round pick was extremely valuable in retrospect actually.

 

[cobalt_27]

I'm a huge Barron fan. I think in the end we'll consider both Claiborne and Barron elite players in the NFL. As of yesterday, however, Claiborne was clearly the more valuable player and TB didn't take advantage of that either by drafting him or maximizing trade value. I don't care what the trade chart says, Jacksonville was the 7th team picking in a draft that had 6 elite prospects. By definition, the 7th slot was the worst in the entire draft and should have commanded more than a 4th.However you look at it, one of two things definitely happened: 1): Tampa actually wanted Claiborne and risked him for a 4th rounder.2): Tampa wanted Barron all along and actually thought a 4th rounder was good value.

Claiborne may have been more valuable to fans or draft experts, but he clearly wasn't more valuable to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Mark Dominik turned that 4th rounder into David Martin, and then later turned it into LaVonte David. That 4th round pick was extremely valuable in retrospect actually.

Could have had Claiborne, Martin, and David. That 4th rounder didn't have magical powers of persuasion or anything.Either Mark Dominick was the only guy in the NFL rating Barron ahead of Claiborne, or he got way too cute and ####ed it up for you guys. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and guess it was the latter. People usually don't get in his position by being that stupid when it comes to player evaluations. Tampa just got too cute and mucked it up.Barron likely a good contributor, but a reach at 7.

 

[Premier]

I'm a huge Barron fan. I think in the end we'll consider both Claiborne and Barron elite players in the NFL. As of yesterday, however, Claiborne was clearly the more valuable player and TB didn't take advantage of that either by drafting him or maximizing trade value. I don't care what the trade chart says, Jacksonville was the 7th team picking in a draft that had 6 elite prospects. By definition, the 7th slot was the worst in the entire draft and should have commanded more than a 4th.However you look at it, one of two things definitely happened: 1): Tampa actually wanted Claiborne and risked him for a 4th rounder.2): Tampa wanted Barron all along and actually thought a 4th rounder was good value.

Claiborne may have been more valuable to fans or draft experts, but he clearly wasn't more valuable to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Mark Dominik turned that 4th rounder into David Martin, and then later turned it into LaVonte David. That 4th round pick was extremely valuable in retrospect actually.

Could have had Claiborne, Martin, and David. That 4th rounder didn't have magical powers of persuasion or anything.Either Mark Dominick was the only guy in the NFL rating Barron ahead of Claiborne, or he got way too cute and ####ed it up for you guys. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and guess it was the latter. People usually don't get in his position by being that stupid when it comes to player evaluations. Tampa just got too cute and mucked it up.Barron likely a good contributor, but a reach at 7.

I'm sure Dominik is psyched about getting the "benefit of the doubt" from cobalt 27.

 

[Grahamburn]

I'm a huge Barron fan. I think in the end we'll consider both Claiborne and Barron elite players in the NFL. As of yesterday, however, Claiborne was clearly the more valuable player and TB didn't take advantage of that either by drafting him or maximizing trade value. I don't care what the trade chart says, Jacksonville was the 7th team picking in a draft that had 6 elite prospects. By definition, the 7th slot was the worst in the entire draft and should have commanded more than a 4th.However you look at it, one of two things definitely happened: 1): Tampa actually wanted Claiborne and risked him for a 4th rounder.2): Tampa wanted Barron all along and actually thought a 4th rounder was good value.

Claiborne may have been more valuable to fans or draft experts, but he clearly wasn't more valuable to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Mark Dominik turned that 4th rounder into Doug Martin, and then later turned it into LaVonte David. That 4th round pick was extremely valuable in retrospect actually.

Could have had Claiborne, Martin, and David. That 4th rounder didn't have magical powers of persuasion or anything.Either Mark Dominick was the only guy in the NFL rating Barron ahead of Claiborne, or he got way too cute and ####ed it up for you guys. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and guess it was the latter. People usually don't get in his position by being that stupid when it comes to player evaluations. Tampa just got too cute and mucked it up.Barron likely a good contributor, but a reach at 7.

I'm miffed that you guys don't seem to be understanding this. If Tampa wanted Claiborne all they had to do was sit tight at #5. They had to know St. Louis had a need at CB, but they decided to move back to #7 anyway. If you really want a guy you don't trade back two spots to allow other teams the opportunity to take that player. It's ridiculous to even suggest it.It's pretty simple. Tampa had Barron rated higher than Claiborne, picked up a 4th round pick for their trouble, and drafted three players with 1st round grades.

 

[Grahamburn]

Could have had Claiborne, Martin, and David. That 4th rounder didn't have magical powers of persuasion or anything.

No, they couldn't have. Tampa didn't have a 4th rounder at the start of the draft. Trading back two spots allowed them to pick one up. They swapped 4ths to get Martin, and then traded the later 4th away to move up for David.

 

[BigTex]

You can take the safety, I'll take the elite corner. Safety is one of the more easily stocked positions. Elite cornerbacks worth more than elite safeties.

 

[Premier]

I'm a huge Barron fan. I think in the end we'll consider both Claiborne and Barron elite players in the NFL. As of yesterday, however, Claiborne was clearly the more valuable player and TB didn't take advantage of that either by drafting him or maximizing trade value. I don't care what the trade chart says, Jacksonville was the 7th team picking in a draft that had 6 elite prospects. By definition, the 7th slot was the worst in the entire draft and should have commanded more than a 4th.However you look at it, one of two things definitely happened: 1): Tampa actually wanted Claiborne and risked him for a 4th rounder.2): Tampa wanted Barron all along and actually thought a 4th rounder was good value.

Claiborne may have been more valuable to fans or draft experts, but he clearly wasn't more valuable to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Mark Dominik turned that 4th rounder into Doug Martin, and then later turned it into LaVonte David. That 4th round pick was extremely valuable in retrospect actually.

Could have had Claiborne, Martin, and David. That 4th rounder didn't have magical powers of persuasion or anything.Either Mark Dominick was the only guy in the NFL rating Barron ahead of Claiborne, or he got way too cute and ####ed it up for you guys. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and guess it was the latter. People usually don't get in his position by being that stupid when it comes to player evaluations. Tampa just got too cute and mucked it up.Barron likely a good contributor, but a reach at 7.

I'm miffed that you guys don't seem to be understanding this. If Tampa wanted Claiborne all they had to do was sit tight at #5. They had to know St. Louis had a need at CB, but they decided to move back to #7 anyway. If you really want a guy you don't trade back two spots to allow other teams the opportunity to take that player. It's ridiculous to even suggest it.It's pretty simple. Tampa had Barron rated higher than Claiborne, picked up a 4th round pick for their trouble, and drafted three players with 1st round grades.

It really is amazing, and awesome, that people continue to argue this point.

 

[sspunisher]

Forget about the players involved and how they might pan out, we can't measure that for years. So let's just focus on the one thing we can measure:

If you're going to validate the trade down because of what the trade netted you (Mark Barron and a 4th rounder/Doug Martin), then you also have to look at what you might have lost out on. Obviously Claiborne, but look how much Minnesota got from Cleveland just to move back 1 spot, and it's important to realize that Minnesota was still in the top 5 after moving back. TB moved back two spots, and more importantly, out of the top 5, yet they got significantly less in return than what Minnesota received.

Bottom line, TB should have gotten more than what Cleveland gave up, but less than what Dallas gave up. Easily could have gotten a 3rd rounder out of it. If Jacksonville was willing to use a 3rd rounder on a PUNTER, no doubt they'd give up that 3rd rounder for Blackmon if TB pressed them for it. And if not, bare minimum should have gotten exactly what Minnesota got, meaning they lost out on a 5th and 7th rounder from JAX.

My thought process revolved around one simple concept: The rewards from trading back were significantly lower than they should have been and TB couldn't have possibly planned it out like that, so I chalked it up to something unexpected happening.

 

[Grahamburn]

Forget about the players involved and how they might pan out, we can't measure that for years. So let's just focus on the one thing we can measure:If you're going to validate the trade down because of what the trade netted you (Mark Barron and a 4th rounder/Doug Martin), then you also have to look at what you might have lost out on. Obviously Claiborne, but look how much Minnesota got from Cleveland just to move back 1 spot, and it's important to realize that Minnesota was still in the top 5 after moving back. TB moved back two spots, and more importantly, out of the top 5, yet they got significantly less in return than what Minnesota received.Bottom line, TB should have gotten more than what Cleveland gave up, but less than what Dallas gave up. Easily could have gotten a 3rd rounder out of it. If Jacksonville was willing to use a 3rd rounder on a PUNTER, no doubt they'd give up that 3rd rounder for Blackmon if TB pressed them for it. And if not, bare minimum should have gotten exactly what Minnesota got, meaning they lost out on a 5th and 7th rounder from JAX.My thought process revolved around one simple concept: The rewards from trading back were significantly lower than they should have been and TB couldn't have possibly planned it out like that, so I chalked it up to something unexpected happening.

Cleveland gave up what they had to so they could outbid the Bucs for that pick. Jacksonville was the only team looking to move up to the #5 for all we know. If that's the case, and Jax said "we're only giving you our 4th," then Tampa was clearly fine with that considering they obviously weren't interested in drafting Morris Claiborne for whatever reason. I'm sure they had valid ones considering his former position coach is on Tampa's staff. MC actually has quite a few red flags that people are ignoring.

 

[cobalt_27]

It's pretty simple. Tampa had Barron rated higher than Claiborne...

Well, there you have it, folks. Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

 

[Premier]

It's pretty simple. Tampa had Barron rated higher than Claiborne...

Well, there you have it, folks. Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Claiborne's position coach at LSU works for the Bucs now. Call me crazy and all, but I'm going to guess he knows just a bit more about him than you do. Which is likely nothing, so I'll go even further and say he likey knows more about the guy than just about anybody.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

You can take the safety, I'll take the elite corner. Safety is one of the more easily stocked positions. Elite cornerbacks worth more than elite safeties.

I'm a huge homer and love the Claiborne pick, but I don't see the outrage in Tampa taking Barron over him.Claiborne is probably the better player from a pure snap to whistle perspective , but the awareness and leadership he shows might make him as valuable or more than Claiborne as a total package. With the Cowboys really needing a leader on D, I'm disappointed in some ways we didn't get him. I doubt anything the team says now or something someone here posts about the Bucs board is true. However, I believ they had to know that Claiborne would probably go at 6.It was a choice they made; we'll know in a few yearsa if it was the correct one, but I think it's wrong to call it a bad move know.

 

[flranger]

Long time Bucs fan, but in retrospect, I understand what Schiano is doing. Picking high character captains of football teams. He is getting control of the locker room after the "Ra" debacle. These guys, even if long term they aren't incredible have an impact on team chemistry.

I'm giving benefit of the doubt. It's not like we didn't need safety and Barron was highly rated. No idea what Barron got on the wonderlic (and I dont think the test matters much) but I know it wasn't a four. The four doesn't bother me near as much as Claibourne saying he blew it off. Dude sounds like a quitter.

 

[G-King]

Claiborne is going to be another Deion Sanders. Great cover guy who does not know how to read blocks to play the run ... tackling itself is optional.

If he is the next Deion then the Bucs, the Rams and any other team not closing the deal to pick him are idiots and Jerry Jones is a genius. Dallas fans are stoked if others say he is equal to HOF Sanders.

 

[Vrana]

Claiborne is going to be another Deion Sanders. Great cover guy who does not know how to read blocks to play the run ... tackling itself is optional.

If he is the next Deion then the Bucs, the Rams and any other team not closing the deal to pick him are idiots and Jerry Jones is a genius. Dallas fans are stoked if others say he is equal to HOF Sanders.

You can say that about anyone. If Barron is the a future HOFer then the Mark Dominik is a genius. If Jimbo John Smith (452nd overall) can punt the ball 90 yard and never misses a field goal then GM X is a genius.Sure, everyone thinks that Claiborne will be a great player (myself included), but the guy does have some issues and calling him the next Deion might be a little overboard.

 

[G-King]

Claiborne is going to be another Deion Sanders. Great cover guy who does not know how to read blocks to play the run ... tackling itself is optional.

If he is the next Deion then the Bucs, the Rams and any other team not closing the deal to pick him are idiots and Jerry Jones is a genius. Dallas fans are stoked if others say he is equal to HOF Sanders.

You can say that about anyone. If Barron is the a future HOFer then the Mark Dominik is a genius. If Jimbo John Smith (452nd overall) can punt the ball 90 yard and never misses a field goal then GM X is a genius.Sure, everyone thinks that Claiborne will be a great player (myself included), but the guy does have some issues and calling him the next Deion might be a little overboard.

My comment was tongue in cheek. I didn't say he was, but was amused that someone was comparing him to Deion as "a bad thing".

 

[Grahamburn]

It's pretty simple. Tampa had Barron rated higher than Claiborne...

Well, there you have it, folks. Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

There were a whole lot of people laughing at the Texans when they took Mario Williams over Reggie Bush and Vince Young too. I'll put it a different way. As a Buc fan I'm extremely happy with Barron, Martin, and David. Their positions were the 3 biggest needs on this team, and those spots have been filled with 3 players who graded out in the 1st round. That couldn't have happened if Tampa had drafted Claiborne. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

 

[bucsbaby]

It's pretty simple. Tampa had Barron rated higher than Claiborne...

Well, there you have it, folks. Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

There were a whole lot of people laughing at the Texans when they took Mario Williams over Reggie Bush and Vince Young too. I'll put it a different way. As a Buc fan I'm extremely happy with Barron, Martin, and David. Their positions were the 3 biggest needs on this team, and those spots have been filled with 3 players who graded out in the 1st round. That couldn't have happened if Tampa had drafted Claiborne. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

 

[Grahamburn]

By: Justin Pawlowski Between the 1st and 2nd rounds of the 2012 NFL Draft, I had the opportunity to speak with Buccaneers general manager Mark Dominik. While GMs typically do not say much, Dominik opened up to me about the trades and players the Bucs made and acquired in the 1st round. The Buccaneers opened up their evening by trading down from the 5th pick to the Jaguars 7th pick, while also acquiring the Jaguars 4th round selection. “You still target the guy you want,” Dominik said. “You certainly have your board and your list of the next guy in case something happens because anytime you trade back more than one spot, you better be prepared to pick. We had Mark Barron targeted. I felt I had the chance to move back just a little bit, but I knew I couldn’t move back much further. I knew the momentum had been building. The media got wind of how good Mark Barron is and I knew the teams knew, so you started hearing Mark Barron at 12, Mark Barron at 10, and even higher. I knew I could move back just a little bit. We had Mark Barron targeted. He’s a player we’re real excited to add. We were able to pick up that 4th round pick that helped us last night move back up in the first and still get Doug Martin.” While Dominik still had Barron targeted after the trade down with the Jaguars, but after the Cowboys traded up with the Rams to the 6th selection, Dominik was sweating a little. “I was nervous when Dallas moved up because there was a chance that was a guy (Barron) they were targeting because I had heard their name a lot. They got a good player, but we got the guy we wanted all along.” The player the Cowboys selected was a player that the Buccaneers had been linked to for the last two months in Morris Claiborne. The question on most Buccaneers fans minds was, why Barron over the popular Claiborne? “Athletic, physical, a presence. I think our town understands and really loves the safety position. Certainly that was a big part of it. I actually didn’t know that John Lynch had scouted him. I guess for another club. I read today all the things he said and it made me smile…I think anyone that really watches the film and saw this guy, he pops off the film, Justin, he makes big plays and big hits. He’s athletic, he can cover, he’s just a rare safety that comes around once in a while. We just felt this was a guy who could be an impact for us.” The Buccaneers made another trade late in the first round with the Denver Broncos to select Doug Martin. After the Vikings had just traded back into the 1st round by giving up a 4th round pick completely, Mark Dominik made the same move for the Buccaneers by only swapping positions in round 4 with the Broncos. “When we got around 22, 23 I started calling all the clubs at the back of the round. I realized there must be one team trying to trade up cause I kept hearing, ‘I got better than that.’ Well, as soon as the Vikings moved, I knew that offer wasn’t going to sit around for the clubs behind us anymore, so that’s when I went in and offered a lot less than what the Vikings did because those teams don’t have their offer anymore. I found a team in the Denver Broncos that were willing to move out of the first round and flip in the 4th, and I thought that was great value for us to sneak in there and get the guy we really wanted.”

 

[RJS113]

The elite CB vs elite safety argument doesnt even make sense. Some people here are forgetting that not everyone projected to be an elite player turns out to be elite. There are busts at the top of the draft every single year. With having LSU's former DB coach on the coaching staff, no team knew Claiborne better than the Bucs. Maybe the Bucs didn't think he's as great as everyone is saying. Maybe Ron Cooper saw something about Claibornes work ethic, ability to learn the play book, character, or whatever else that turned them off.

If only Tampa knew that Gaines Adams would bust, and "reached" for Patrick Willis instead.

There's going to be several Gaines Adams and Jamarcus Russels every year. Maybe the Bucs think Claiborne is another one, regardless of what Mel Kiper or anyone else says.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

By: Justin Pawlowski Between the 1st and 2nd rounds of the 2012 NFL Draft, I had the opportunity to speak with Buccaneers general manager Mark Dominik. While GMs typically do not say much, Dominik opened up to me about the trades and players the Bucs made and acquired in the 1st round. The Buccaneers opened up their evening by trading down from the 5th pick to the Jaguars 7th pick, while also acquiring the Jaguars 4th round selection. “You still target the guy you want,” Dominik said. “You certainly have your board and your list of the next guy in case something happens because anytime you trade back more than one spot, you better be prepared to pick. We had Mark Barron targeted. I felt I had the chance to move back just a little bit, but I knew I couldn’t move back much further. I knew the momentum had been building. The media got wind of how good Mark Barron is and I knew the teams knew, so you started hearing Mark Barron at 12, Mark Barron at 10, and even higher. I knew I could move back just a little bit. We had Mark Barron targeted. He’s a player we’re real excited to add. We were able to pick up that 4th round pick that helped us last night move back up in the first and still get Doug Martin.” While Dominik still had Barron targeted after the trade down with the Jaguars, but after the Cowboys traded up with the Rams to the 6th selection, Dominik was sweating a little. “I was nervous when Dallas moved up because there was a chance that was a guy (Barron) they were targeting because I had heard their name a lot. They got a good player, but we got the guy we wanted all along.” The player the Cowboys selected was a player that the Buccaneers had been linked to for the last two months in Morris Claiborne. The question on most Buccaneers fans minds was, why Barron over the popular Claiborne? “Athletic, physical, a presence. I think our town understands and really loves the safety position. Certainly that was a big part of it. I actually didn’t know that John Lynch had scouted him. I guess for another club. I read today all the things he said and it made me smile…I think anyone that really watches the film and saw this guy, he pops off the film, Justin, he makes big plays and big hits. He’s athletic, he can cover, he’s just a rare safety that comes around once in a while. We just felt this was a guy who could be an impact for us.” The Buccaneers made another trade late in the first round with the Denver Broncos to select Doug Martin. After the Vikings had just traded back into the 1st round by giving up a 4th round pick completely, Mark Dominik made the same move for the Buccaneers by only swapping positions in round 4 with the Broncos. “When we got around 22, 23 I started calling all the clubs at the back of the round. I realized there must be one team trying to trade up cause I kept hearing, ‘I got better than that.’ Well, as soon as the Vikings moved, I knew that offer wasn’t going to sit around for the clubs behind us anymore, so that’s when I went in and offered a lot less than what the Vikings did because those teams don’t have their offer anymore. I found a team in the Denver Broncos that were willing to move out of the first round and flip in the 4th, and I thought that was great value for us to sneak in there and get the guy we really wanted.”

Nice article by the commish. I love what the Bucs were able to do late in the round to recognize the shifting market price and jump in and steal Martin from the Giants. Giants fans who argue they wanted Wilson all along are delusional. Great picks by the Bucs GM Dominik and who cares what the media think.

 

[sspunisher]

I'm definitely willing to entertain the idea that Barron will be a great safety but there is a whole lot of post-purchase rationalization going on here. Not so much in building up Barron but more in trying to convince yourselves that there are faults with Claiborne and that's why you passed on him.

My whole conspiracy theory came about because I was 100% convinced that no team in its right mind would pass on Claiborne for Barron. I was sure something went wrong. Not trying to rile you Bucs fans up so I'll just say I very strongly disagree with Barron supposedly being higher on their board than Claiborne.

 

[Grahamburn]

I'm definitely willing to entertain the idea that Barron will be a great safety but there is a whole lot of post-purchase rationalization going on here. Not so much in building up Barron but more in trying to convince yourselves that there are faults with Claiborne and that's why you passed on him.

My whole conspiracy theory came about because I was 100% convinced that no team in its right mind would pass on Claiborne for Barron. I was sure something went wrong. Not trying to rile you Bucs fans up so I'll just say I very strongly disagree with Barron supposedly being higher on their board than Claiborne.

I guess I'll try one more time. Tampa knew Claiborne better than every other team in the NFL, and still decided to move back 2 spots in this draft. They had to know the Jaguars were going to take Blackmon. He's the only player they'd be moving up for. Who's that leave at 6 for the Rams, a team in dire need for help at CB? Claiborne. I don't know why this is so hard to understand? There's absolutely no way MC was going to be available with the 7th pick.

Tampa passed on him. He fell right in St. Louis' lap and they decided to pass on him.

I'm not really trying to rationalize anything, but clearly Tampa had their reasons to avoid drafting him. The move surprised me as well, but reflecting on it after the fact paints the picture of what really happened.

Obviously GMs lie and say "this is the guy we had targeted all along," but in this case I have to believe Dominik. He is on record saying Barron was his guy, and he was sweating when Dallas moved up to 6.

TB was in a prime position to take Morris if they wanted him. They decided instead to move back to pick up a 4th and draft Barron. If Claiborne was "their guy" then there is no logical reason to make that move.

 

[Premier]

Man people love to cling to their conspiracies.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

You can take the safety, I'll take the elite corner. Safety is one of the more easily stocked positions. Elite cornerbacks worth more than elite safeties.

That was always the feeling in the past but I'm not so sure anymore with offenses changing so fast....guys the size of TE's are lining up in the slot or out wide (Graham, Hernandez). Maybe more flexible safeties who can cover will become more important in the future.

 

[sspunisher]

I'm definitely willing to entertain the idea that Barron will be a great safety but there is a whole lot of post-purchase rationalization going on here. Not so much in building up Barron but more in trying to convince yourselves that there are faults with Claiborne and that's why you passed on him.

My whole conspiracy theory came about because I was 100% convinced that no team in its right mind would pass on Claiborne for Barron. I was sure something went wrong. Not trying to rile you Bucs fans up so I'll just say I very strongly disagree with Barron supposedly being higher on their board than Claiborne.

I guess I'll try one more time. Tampa knew Claiborne better than every other team in the NFL, and still decided to move back 2 spots in this draft. They had to know the Jaguars were going to take Blackmon. He's the only player they'd be moving up for. Who's that leave at 6 for the Rams, a team in dire need for help at CB? Claiborne. I don't know why this is so hard to understand? There's absolutely no way MC was going to be available with the 7th pick.

Tampa passed on him. He fell right in St. Louis' lap and they decided to pass on him.

I'm not really trying to rationalize anything, but clearly Tampa had their reasons to avoid drafting him. The move surprised me as well, but reflecting on it after the fact paints the picture of what really happened.

Obviously GMs lie and say "this is the guy we had targeted all along," but in this case I have to believe Dominik. He is on record saying Barron was his guy, and he was sweating when Dallas moved up to 6.

TB was in a prime position to take Morris if they wanted him. They decided instead to move back to pick up a 4th and draft Barron. If Claiborne was "their guy" then there is no logical reason to make that move.

Lol bro, some of you guys are still rationalizing it to me and to yourselves.. I was speaking in the past tense. I originally thought no way Tampa would be stupid enough to actually pass on Claiborne for Barron, was convinced something went wrong and that's why I made this thread. Now I'm willing to entertain the idea that they were stupid enough to have Barron ahead of Claiborne,, but me thinking that's stupid is just a very strong opinion I have and I'm not pushing it on anyone.

 

[Lash]

It's pretty simple. Tampa had Barron rated higher than Claiborne...

Well, there you have it, folks. Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Claiborne's position coach at LSU works for the Bucs now. Call me crazy and all, but I'm going to guess he knows just a bit more about him than you do. Which is likely nothing, so I'll go even further and say he likey knows more about the guy than just about anybody.

yeah, and Jay Cutler played college ball 2 miles from the Titans stadium and Fisher wanted him bad ... GM and owner trumped him and picked VY (we see how that turned out)sometimes coaches get trumped, how do we know it didn't happen to MC position coach?

 

[Mustang Man]

It's amazing Dallas drafts Claiborne at 6 and now he is iffy. There is not a team that did not have Claiborne as a top blue chip player this year. Barron on the other hand was considered a middle first rounder about 2 months ago and shot up the board in the last 3 weeks. Both good players but Claiborne is a special game changing talent. If the Patriots picked him at 6 there would be zero talk about how Claiborne is maybe not as good as advertised. You never know how things are going to play out but one thing is for sure Claiborne was the smart choice and the better player coming and going out of this draft.

 

[Mustang Man]

You can take the safety, I'll take the elite corner. Safety is one of the more easily stocked positions. Elite cornerbacks worth more than elite safeties.

I'm a huge homer and love the Claiborne pick, but I don't see the outrage in Tampa taking Barron over him.Claiborne is probably the better player from a pure snap to whistle perspective , but the awareness and leadership he shows might make him as valuable or more than Claiborne as a total package. With the Cowboys really needing a leader on D, I'm disappointed in some ways we didn't get him. I doubt anything the team says now or something someone here posts about the Bucs board is true. However, I believ they had to know that Claiborne would probably go at 6.It was a choice they made; we'll know in a few yearsa if it was the correct one, but I think it's wrong to call it a bad move know.

Agree 100% but Claiborne was the right choice for DALLAS though. They needed a play maker in the secondary REAL BAD. Claiborne is a playmaker the best in the draft defensively. Barron will be a solid player I am sure and maybe the right choice for Tampa but I really do not care all I care about is that the right choice was made by Dallas for Dallas. Team, Claiborne with Carr and you got an 100% upgrade on their biggest weakness and reason they lost multiple games last season. Cornerback play was horrid last year for Dallas and now it is a strength. Love the off season moves by Dallas, if you combine the draft with free agency then the Dallas off season has been off the charts!!

 

[cobalt_27]

It's pretty simple. Tampa had Barron rated higher than Claiborne...

Well, there you have it, folks. Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Claiborne's position coach at LSU works for the Bucs now. Call me crazy and all, but I'm going to guess he knows just a bit more about him than you do. Which is likely nothing, so I'll go even further and say he likey knows more about the guy than just about anybody.

yeah, and Jay Cutler played college ball 2 miles from the Titans stadium and Fisher wanted him bad ... GM and owner trumped him and picked VY (we see how that turned out)sometimes coaches get trumped, how do we know it didn't happen to MC position coach?

Yup. I love how Copper just became the GM in Tampa all of a sudden. But, it serves as a good story to ease the minds of Tampa fans when in the back of their minds, they know they passed on an elite cornerback.

 

[G-King]

I'm definitely willing to entertain the idea that Barron will be a great safety but there is a whole lot of post-purchase rationalization going on here. Not so much in building up Barron but more in trying to convince yourselves that there are faults with Claiborne and that's why you passed on him.

My whole conspiracy theory came about because I was 100% convinced that no team in its right mind would pass on Claiborne for Barron. I was sure something went wrong. Not trying to rile you Bucs fans up so I'll just say I very strongly disagree with Barron supposedly being higher on their board than Claiborne.

I guess I'll try one more time.

Tampa knew Claiborne better than every other team in the NFL, and still decided to move back 2 spots in this draft. They had to know the Jaguars were going to take Blackmon. He's the only player they'd be moving up for. Who's that leave at 6 for the Rams, a team in dire need for help at CB? Claiborne. I don't know why this is so hard to understand? There's absolutely no way MC was going to be available with the 7th pick.

Tampa passed on him. He fell right in St. Louis' lap and they decided to pass on him.

I'm not really trying to rationalize anything, but clearly Tampa had their reasons to avoid drafting him. The move surprised me as well, but reflecting on it after the fact paints the picture of what really happened.

Obviously GMs lie and say "this is the guy we had targeted all along," but in this case I have to believe Dominik. He is on record saying Barron was his guy, and he was sweating when Dallas moved up to 6.

TB was in a prime position to take Morris if they wanted him. They decided instead to move back to pick up a 4th and draft Barron. If Claiborne was "their guy" then there is no logical reason to make that move.

Lol bro, some of you guys are still rationalizing it to me and to yourselves.. I was speaking in the past tense. I originally thought no way Tampa would be stupid enough to actually pass on Claiborne for Barron, was convinced something went wrong and that's why I made this thread. Now I'm willing to entertain the idea that they were stupid enough to have Barron ahead of Claiborne,, but me thinking that's stupid is just a very strong opinion I have and I'm not pushing it on anyone.

This is awesome! I love good backhanded sarcasm.... Like Sheldon on The Big Bang Theory.

Greatness!

 

[Premier]

It's pretty simple. Tampa had Barron rated higher than Claiborne...

Well, there you have it, folks. Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Claiborne's position coach at LSU works for the Bucs now. Call me crazy and all, but I'm going to guess he knows just a bit more about him than you do. Which is likely nothing, so I'll go even further and say he likey knows more about the guy than just about anybody.

yeah, and Jay Cutler played college ball 2 miles from the Titans stadium and Fisher wanted him bad ... GM and owner trumped him and picked VY (we see how that turned out)sometimes coaches get trumped, how do we know it didn't happen to MC position coach?

Yup. I love how Copper just became the GM in Tampa all of a sudden. But, it serves as a good story to ease the minds of Tampa fans when in the back of their minds, they know they passed on an elite cornerback.

I have no doubts Clay is going to be a very good player. I've never said otherwise. He very well may be better than Barron. My main point though, and the point that the people here who failed reading comp continue to miss is, that the Bucs had Barron ranked higher than him for whatever reason. That really cannot be disputed by any seemingly right-minded person.

 

[Enraged Nerfball]

I'm definitely willing to entertain the idea that Barron will be a great safety but there is a whole lot of post-purchase rationalization going on here. Not so much in building up Barron but more in trying to convince yourselves that there are faults with Claiborne and that's why you passed on him.

My whole conspiracy theory came about because I was 100% convinced that no team in its right mind would pass on Claiborne for Barron. I was sure something went wrong. Not trying to rile you Bucs fans up so I'll just say I very strongly disagree with Barron supposedly being higher on their board than Claiborne.

Maybe the talent level between the two isn't as great as you suggest. First, Barron was targeted as a top 6-7 player by many teams. Here's 2 links:http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/25/report-many-teams-rank-barron-as-no-6-player-in-draft/

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120425-draft-analyst-multiple-teams-rank-mark-barron-as-6th-best-player-in-draft.ece

We can debate the meaning of the words many or several and miss the point that the Bucs were definitely not on an island in their desire for Barron. Second, five teams passed on Claiborne, including the Jags and Vikings who also needed CB help. Claiborne is definitely a talent but if the Bucs believe they have something special in Barron along the lines of a Ronnie Lott type player then I can't fault them for making the pick they did. (disclosure - the Lott comparison is mine )

 

[sspunisher]

I'm definitely willing to entertain the idea that Barron will be a great safety but there is a whole lot of post-purchase rationalization going on here. Not so much in building up Barron but more in trying to convince yourselves that there are faults with Claiborne and that's why you passed on him.

My whole conspiracy theory came about because I was 100% convinced that no team in its right mind would pass on Claiborne for Barron. I was sure something went wrong. Not trying to rile you Bucs fans up so I'll just say I very strongly disagree with Barron supposedly being higher on their board than Claiborne.

Maybe the talent level between the two isn't as great as you suggest. First, Barron was targeted as a top 6-7 player by many teams. Here's 2 links:http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/25/report-many-teams-rank-barron-as-no-6-player-in-draft/

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120425-draft-analyst-multiple-teams-rank-mark-barron-as-6th-best-player-in-draft.ece

We can debate the meaning of the words many or several and miss the point that the Bucs were definitely not on an island in their desire for Barron. Second, five teams passed on Claiborne, including the Jags and Vikings who also needed CB help. Claiborne is definitely a talent but if the Bucs believe they have something special in Barron along the lines of a Ronnie Lott type player then I can't fault them for making the pick they did. (disclosure - the Lott comparison is mine )

Good point but almost all of the teams that passed on Claiborne didn't have the luxury of picking him b/c they were in QB sensitive situations. They needed QBs, or to protect their QB, or to get a weapon for their QB. With the exception of Cleveland of course but I would rate Richardson above Claiborne anyway. As for talent level differences between Claiborne and Barron, I'll openly admit that I'm only considering their skills in pass coverage. That's not fair to Barron but if he can't cover a WR then I can't put him in that category in a league where rookie QBs are throwing for 4,000 yards. I do think Barron is underrated in his coverage ability though.

 

[RJS113]

Here is Mark Dominik's response (a week before the draft) to the assumption that the Bucs would choose between Richardson and Claiborne:

"I don't want to pigeonhole us because that's not the way I'm looking at our draft right now," he said.  "We as an organization will take the player that we think fits, whether that's in that top five or not.  If we don't think so, I have no problem making that selection.  Although the public perception may be, these are the four, these are the five players that we're considering, certainly we have evaluated other positions and there are guys we like at other positions."

Although you can't usually trust what a GM says the week before the draft, when I watched that press conference, I really believed the Bucs pick was going surprise a lot of people. I had assumed that guy was Kuechly, and even said that I wouldn't be surprised if the Bucs drafted him with Claiborne on the board. I wasn't surprised at all that the Bucs passed on Claiborne.

 

[Grahamburn]

Now I'm willing to entertain the idea that they were stupid enough to have Barron ahead of Claiborne, but me thinking that's stupid is just a very strong opinion I have and I'm not pushing it on anyone.

Time will tell. Several teams with pressing needs at CB passed on Morris Claiborne. Cosell's thoughts on these two players:

Morris Claiborne. Claiborne played both press and off coverage at LSU, and he also played in the slot. Claiborne was more of a mirror or shadow press man corner, much like Champ Bailey has been in his career. Claiborne was a smooth efficient mover, but he was not as physical as Gilmore, and I dont believe he provides the same slot versatility as a blitzer and run support defender.

Mark Barron. Barron is easily the best safety in this draft class. His tape showed a complete and multi-dimensional skill set, perhaps the most impressive attribute being his man-to-man coverage ability versus tight ends. He also played man-to-man against the inside slot receiver in 3×1 sets. The larger point is that Barron can play man coverage, and that has become increasingly important for safeties in today's NFL. Overall Barron offers tremendous scheme and position versatility. Safety has still not reached premium status in terms of NFL draft value, but I would argue that Barron is one of the 5 to 7 best players in this draft.

I'll trust his opinion over the armchairs in here.Keep this in mind as well. It's not really a Barron vs. Claiborne argument in a vacuum. The Bucs were able to get help at their 3 biggest areas of need because of this trade. Claiborne may turn out to be a "better" player than Barron, but if Barron, Doug Martin, and LaVonte David all become impact players for a successful team then Mark Dominik and the Bucs made the correct decision in this draft.

Are they really stupid if that turns out to be the case?

 

[Mustang Man]

Now I'm willing to entertain the idea that they were stupid enough to have Barron ahead of Claiborne, but me thinking that's stupid is just a very strong opinion I have and I'm not pushing it on anyone.

Time will tell. Several teams with pressing needs at CB passed on Morris Claiborne. Keep this in mind as well. It's not really a Barron vs. Claiborne argument in a vacuum. The Bucs were able to get help at their 3 biggest areas of need because of this trade. Claiborne may turn out to be a "better" player than Barron, but if Barron, Doug Martin, and LaVonte David all become impact players for a successful team then Mark Dominik and the Bucs made the correct decision in this draft.

Are they really stupid if that turns out to be the case?

I would rather have all 3 vs just 1. Good luck to them. Dallas gave up a second so for them it was a blue chip game changing player for Upshaw and second rounder. Looks to me like both teams made the right decision.

 

[Enraged Nerfball]

I'm definitely willing to entertain the idea that Barron will be a great safety but there is a whole lot of post-purchase rationalization going on here. Not so much in building up Barron but more in trying to convince yourselves that there are faults with Claiborne and that's why you passed on him.

My whole conspiracy theory came about because I was 100% convinced that no team in its right mind would pass on Claiborne for Barron. I was sure something went wrong. Not trying to rile you Bucs fans up so I'll just say I very strongly disagree with Barron supposedly being higher on their board than Claiborne.

Maybe the talent level between the two isn't as great as you suggest. First, Barron was targeted as a top 6-7 player by many teams. Here's 2 links:http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/25/report-many-teams-rank-barron-as-no-6-player-in-draft/

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120425-draft-analyst-multiple-teams-rank-mark-barron-as-6th-best-player-in-draft.ece

We can debate the meaning of the words many or several and miss the point that the Bucs were definitely not on an island in their desire for Barron. Second, five teams passed on Claiborne, including the Jags and Vikings who also needed CB help. Claiborne is definitely a talent but if the Bucs believe they have something special in Barron along the lines of a Ronnie Lott type player then I can't fault them for making the pick they did. (disclosure - the Lott comparison is mine )

Good point but almost all of the teams that passed on Claiborne didn't have the luxury of picking him b/c they were in QB sensitive situations. They needed QBs, or to protect their QB, or to get a weapon for their QB. With the exception of Cleveland of course but I would rate Richardson above Claiborne anyway. As for talent level differences between Claiborne and Barron, I'll openly admit that I'm only considering their skills in pass coverage. That's not fair to Barron but if he can't cover a WR then I can't put him in that category in a league where rookie QBs are throwing for 4,000 yards. I do think Barron is underrated in his coverage ability though.

I do as well. I'm not sure where the coverage issue came from but I don't think most knowledgeable sources or his stats at Bama support that contention. This is what Mayock had to say about Barron:"Boy, is this a solid pick," Mayock said. "I love this kid because his floor and ceiling are the same thing. His ceiling is to be a Pro Bowl safety; his floor is to be a Pro Bowl safety. That's how good this young man is."

He had 12 int's at Bama during his 4 years there, 7 his sophomore year. If you look closely his int. and pass deflected totals show a downward trend each year. Tells me teams stopped trying to throw on him.

Anyway , this horse has been beaten up pretty good. On to something else.

 

[cobalt_27]

He had 12 int's at Bama during his 4 years there, 7 his sophomore year. If you look closely his int. and pass deflected totals show a downward trend each year. Tells me teams stopped trying to throw on him.

Wow. That argument might work for a cornerback in some cases. But, that's a giant inferential leap to make for a college safety.A lot of grasping for straws in this thread.

 

[jurb26]

He had 12 int's at Bama during his 4 years there, 7 his sophomore year. If you look closely his int. and pass deflected totals show a downward trend each year. Tells me teams stopped trying to throw on him.

Wow. That argument might work for a cornerback in some cases. But, that's a giant inferential leap to make for a college safety.A lot of grasping for straws in this thread.

You can throw away from CBs, but not S. This is not a very solid argument IMO. That said, I live Barron as a player. He's the best S to come out since S. Taylor for me. He's not in Taylor's class though. While I like Barron I also find it hard to believe anyone had him rated higher than Claiborne. Claiborne is just as talented, perhaps more, and plays a much higher demand position.

 

[bucsbaby]

He had 12 int's at Bama during his 4 years there, 7 his sophomore year. If you look closely his int. and pass deflected totals show a downward trend each year. Tells me teams stopped trying to throw on him.

Wow. That argument might work for a cornerback in some cases. But, that's a giant inferential leap to make for a college safety.A lot of grasping for straws in this thread.

You can throw away from CBs, but not S. This is not a very solid argument IMO. That said, I live Barron as a player. He's the best S to come out since S. Taylor for me. He's not in Taylor's class though. While I like Barron I also find it hard to believe anyone had him rated higher than Claiborne. Claiborne is just as talented, perhaps more, and plays a much higher demand position.

While it remains to be seen what the Bounty scandal consequences will have on the Saints, they have been the team to beat in the division recently. The most powerful weapon Brees had on that offense recently is Graham -- a TE.It's already been pointed out that the Falcons and Panthers have very good weapons at TE as well. Granted, there are some good WRs in the bunch to be covered as well, but my point is that as TEs are becoming more prominent in offensive attacks, S is going to become a more "in demand" position. Things change in the NFL and sometimes very quickly.

 

[jurb26]

He had 12 int's at Bama during his 4 years there, 7 his sophomore year. If you look closely his int. and pass deflected totals show a downward trend each year. Tells me teams stopped trying to throw on him.

Wow. That argument might work for a cornerback in some cases. But, that's a giant inferential leap to make for a college safety.A lot of grasping for straws in this thread.

You can throw away from CBs, but not S. This is not a very solid argument IMO. That said, I live Barron as a player. He's the best S to come out since S. Taylor for me. He's not in Taylor's class though. While I like Barron I also find it hard to believe anyone had him rated higher than Claiborne. Claiborne is just as talented, perhaps more, and plays a much higher demand position.

While it remains to be seen what the Bounty scandal consequences will have on the Saints, they have been the team to beat in the division recently. The most powerful weapon Brees had on that offense recently is Graham -- a TE.It's already been pointed out that the Falcons and Panthers have very good weapons at TE as well. Granted, there are some good WRs in the bunch to be covered as well, but my point is that as TEs are becoming more prominent in offensive attacks, S is going to become a more "in demand" position. Things change in the NFL and sometimes very quickly.

I agree that S are becoming more and more vital to defensive success. By in demand I meant more along the lines of harder to find. Guys who can play CB at a high level in the NFL are harder to find than S.

 

[cobalt_27]

He had 12 int's at Bama during his 4 years there, 7 his sophomore year. If you look closely his int. and pass deflected totals show a downward trend each year. Tells me teams stopped trying to throw on him.

Wow. That argument might work for a cornerback in some cases. But, that's a giant inferential leap to make for a college safety.A lot of grasping for straws in this thread.

You can throw away from CBs, but not S. This is not a very solid argument IMO. That said, I live Barron as a player. He's the best S to come out since S. Taylor for me. He's not in Taylor's class though. While I like Barron I also find it hard to believe anyone had him rated higher than Claiborne. Claiborne is just as talented, perhaps more, and plays a much higher demand position.

Yup. Barron's gonna be a solid football player. Really sharp guy. Should pick up the defense really easily and make a positive impact day one.But, in positional hierarchy, CB > S. And, as good as Barron is at safety, he's not as good as Claiborne at CB. To resolve the cognitive dissonance, it appears Bucs fans are biting on two theories: 1. Copper, is so super influential in his first year as secondary coach that he was able to sell Claiborn as a bag of rocks to the HC and GM and...2. The trade down gave them a magical 4th pick that will turn the franchise around forever.The alternative explanation is that this was a terrible trade down.

 

[Premier]

Again, this thread (or at least my replies) didn't take off as an argument of Clay v. Barron. I literally have no idea who will be the better player, and despite all the fake message board bravado, nobody else here does either.

All I was saying is the Bucs had Barron rated higher, right or wrong.. That's clear as day.

 

[RJS113]

He had 12 int's at Bama during his 4 years there, 7 his sophomore year. If you look closely his int. and pass deflected totals show a downward trend each year. Tells me teams stopped trying to throw on him.

Wow. That argument might work for a cornerback in some cases. But, that's a giant inferential leap to make for a college safety.A lot of grasping for straws in this thread.

You can throw away from CBs, but not S. This is not a very solid argument IMO. That said, I live Barron as a player. He's the best S to come out since S. Taylor for me. He's not in Taylor's class though. While I like Barron I also find it hard to believe anyone had him rated higher than Claiborne. Claiborne is just as talented, perhaps more, and plays a much higher demand position.

Yup. Barron's gonna be a solid football player. Really sharp guy. Should pick up the defense really easily and make a positive impact day one.But, in positional hierarchy, CB > S. And, as good as Barron is at safety, he's not as good as Claiborne at CB. To resolve the cognitive dissonance, it appears Bucs fans are biting on two theories: 1. Copper, is so super influential in his first year as secondary coach that he was able to sell Claiborn as a bag of rocks to the HC and GM and...2. The trade down gave them a magical 4th pick that will turn the franchise around forever.The alternative explanation is that this was a terrible trade down.

Let's assume that Mark Dominik was telling the truth when he said he would have taken Barron at 5 (which should be obvious). Who knows if this is the case, but let's also assume that the Jags absolutely would not give up more than a 4th to move up, and were content to stay at 7 if Tampa wouldn't take the 4th rounder. Do you think the Bucs would have been better off staying at 5 and picking Barron instead of trading down because a 4th wasn't enough value?Regardless of what the trade value chart says, the Bucs got the guy they wanted, and then some. Barron + 4th round pick > Just Barron

 

[Grahamburn]

Could have had Claiborne, Martin, and David. That 4th rounder didn't have magical powers of persuasion or anything.Either Mark Dominick was the only guy in the NFL rating Barron ahead of Claiborne, or he got way too cute and ####ed it up for you guys. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and guess it was the latter. People usually don't get in his position by being that stupid when it comes to player evaluations. Tampa just got too cute and mucked it up.Barron likely a good contributor, but a reach at 7.

Well, there you have it, folks. Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Yup. I love how Copper just became the GM in Tampa all of a sudden. But, it serves as a good story to ease the minds of Tampa fans when in the back of their minds, they know they passed on an elite cornerback.

Wow. That argument might work for a cornerback in some cases. But, that's a giant inferential leap to make for a college safety.A lot of grasping for straws in this thread.

Yup. Barron's gonna be a solid football player. Really sharp guy. Should pick up the defense really easily and make a positive impact day one.But, in positional hierarchy, CB > S. And, as good as Barron is at safety, he's not as good as Claiborne at CB. To resolve the cognitive dissonance, it appears Bucs fans are biting on two theories: 1. Copper, is so super influential in his first year as secondary coach that he was able to sell Claiborn as a bag of rocks to the HC and GM and...2. The trade down gave them a magical 4th pick that will turn the franchise around forever.The alternative explanation is that this was a terrible trade down.

Why do you seem to be so vested in this? Why are the Bucs the only stupid team here? The Vikings, Browns, Rams, Jaguars, and Bucs all passed on Claiborne. Maybe he's not as all world as you seem to think he is? Several "experts" including Greg Cosell had Gilmore and Jenkins rated above Claiborne.It's also possible Dallas simply made a mistake. Claiborne may have continued to slide if the Cowboys didn't move up. They never interviewed or even worked Claiborne out.

"I think the important thing is that we didn't think it was realistic that we'd ever have a chance to get a player like that," Cowboys executive Stephen Jones said. How did it come together? What kind of homework went into such a blockbuster deal? How much investigating had Dallas done with Claiborne in order to make such a move? Well, almost none. Assistant secondary coach Joe Baker spoke with him at the NFL Scouting Combine, and so did some Cowboys scouts. But there was no Valley Ranch visit, no private workout, no extensive tests. There was no warning. No extra medical attention, even though Claiborne has a torn wrist ligament that knocks him out of Organized Team Activities. Nothing. "We didn't talk," said Claiborne, the 5-foot-11, 188-pound Shreveport, La., native who was a consensus All-American. "None. Not at all. That's why I was so shocked when I got the phone call."

The teams in position to take Morris Claiborne ALL passed on him. Two of those teams made trades to absolutely avoid taking him. Had Dallas actually talked to him maybe they would have known what these other teams seemed to know.