Draft Drama: Barron over Claiborne? (1 Viewer)

[sspunisher]

Definitely not buying this whole Tampa Bay wanting Barron all along BS. What I really think went down:

1. TB makes noise about wanting to trade with MIN for TRich.

2. They get too cheap in negotiations and lose him to CLE.

3. Greed sets in and they trade with JAX, thinking Claiborne will still be there at 7.

4. Completely overlook the fact that STL would move back if Blackmon was gone.

5. JAX takes Blackmon and Fisher feels he was screwed by a boneheaded TB trade. ETA: Fisher's Reaction when TB Traded Back

6. Fisher calls Jerry in order to screw TB right back and offers a surprisingly low price for a premium pick.

7. DAL drafts Claiborne.

8. TB is in shock, takes Barron and claims he was their pick all along.

Okay a little crazy of a scenario, but seriously, how do you justify taking Barron and a 4th over Claiborne?

 

[The Comedian]

Given what CLE gave to move up to #3 (almost nothing) I'm skeptical the Bucs were serious about moving up. Also I'm not sure if getting "greedy" makes sense when they only got a 4th to move down.

I think you have to assume they're telling the truth - if they really had Claiborne way ahead of the field, then one would hope they would not be so stupid to risk losing him for a 4th round pick.

But who knows.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

I think there might be some sense to what you wrote, but STL only hurt themselves in the long run if their goal at the most important part of their draft was to #### over Tampa.

 

[Deamon]

Given what CLE gave to move up to #3 (almost nothing) I'm skeptical the Bucs were serious about moving up. Also I'm not sure if getting "greedy" makes sense when they only got a 4th to move down.

I think you have to assume they're telling the truth - if they really had Claiborne way ahead of the field, then one would hope they would not be so stupid to risk losing him for a 4th round pick.

But who knows.

Almost nothing? Three draft picks is substantial. Even though they are late ones, it was only one spot.

 

[Shawnky]

Given what CLE gave to move up to #3 (almost nothing) I'm skeptical the Bucs were serious about moving up. Also I'm not sure if getting "greedy" makes sense when they only got a 4th to move down.

I think you have to assume they're telling the truth - if they really had Claiborne way ahead of the field, then one would hope they would not be so stupid to risk losing him for a 4th round pick.

But who knows.

Almost nothing? Three draft picks is substantial. Even though they are late ones, it was only one spot.

They had 12 picks. The likelihood of all those picks making the team is none.

 

[The Comedian]

Given what CLE gave to move up to #3 (almost nothing) I'm skeptical the Bucs were serious about moving up. Also I'm not sure if getting "greedy" makes sense when they only got a 4th to move down.

I think you have to assume they're telling the truth - if they really had Claiborne way ahead of the field, then one would hope they would not be so stupid to risk losing him for a 4th round pick.

But who knows.

Almost nothing? Three draft picks is substantial. Even though they are late ones, it was only one spot.

Yeah, almost nothing. Guys who are a stretch to make the roster.

 

[sspunisher]

Also I'm not sure if getting "greedy" makes sense when they only got a 4th to move down.

Well when I said greedy, I meant instead of taking Claiborne at 5, they thought they could still get him at 7 and risked that for only a 4th round pick. Didn't mean they asked the Jags for a lot of picks.

I think there might be some sense to what you wrote, but STL only hurt themselves in the long run if their goal at the most important part of their draft was to #### over Tampa.

I 100% agree with you, but just b/c he's hurting TB doesn't mean he's not helping himself. Taking Claiborne was still a very viable option for STL. Fisher felt that a 14 and a 2nd was more valuable for his team obviously. Maybe Tampa Bay thought STL would take Cox in that scenario?

 

[Premier]

Your #3 is ridiculous. Of course the Bucs knew Clay was going at pick 6. Who else would be going there?

 

[gump]

Your #3 is ridiculous. Of course the Bucs knew Clay was going at pick 6. Who else would be going there?

I have a friend who is swearing up and down the Bucs got screwed by Dallas...just before hanging up on him I told him its the dumbest thing he's ever said to me.That would be one of the most bone-headed moves in the draft history....it would also be on someone's radar in the media....don't over-think it.

 

[Sabertooth]

Definitely not buying this whole Tampa Bay wanting Barron all along BS. What I really think went down:1. TB makes noise about wanting to trade with MIN for TRich.2. They get too cheap in negotiations and lose him to CLE.3. Greed sets in and they trade with JAX, thinking Claiborne will still be there at 7.4. Completely overlook the fact that STL would move back if Blackmon was gone.5. JAX takes Blackmon and Fisher feels he was screwed by a boneheaded TB trade.6. Fisher calls Jerry in order to screw TB right back and offers a surprisingly low price for a premium pick.7. DAL drafts Claiborne.8. TB is in shock, takes Barron and claims he was their pick all along.Okay a little crazy of a scenario, but seriously, how do you justify taking Barron and a 4th over Claiborne?

I agree with you. Although you never know, that 4th might end up just as good or better than Barron or Claiborne.

 

[The Comedian]

I'm not getting why TB would not assume that STL could/would take Claiborne at #6.

 

[gump]

I'm not getting why TB would not assume that STL could/would take Claiborne at #6.

Some people apparently think Schiano's SID from Rutgers ran the draft room.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Pretty heady move by the Bucs to address safety in this draft. It was a huge hole in their defense. After the Schiano regime saw the game film of Tanard Jackson and decided to cut him, they were left with Ronde Barber possibly experimenting at the position. In a conference as stout as the NFC South for QB's, having to face Brees, Ryan, Newton 6 times a year....you can't be weak at safety. It makes a lot of sense now in retrospect, and I laugh at the notion that the Bucs thought Claiborne was going to fall to them at 7.

 

[gump]

Remember also that the Bucs hired the LSU DB coach in the offseason. There is no doubt the Bucs didn't want Claiborne.

 

[Grahamburn]

Pretty clear to me Tampa picked up a 4th rounder and got the guy they really wanted.

 

[rizzler]

Not a Tampa fan, whatsoever....

But it seemed clear to me they would have been 110% content with Barron or Claiborne and took a slight bounty to make it Barron.

Not a bad move at all for the Bucs.

 

[Prussian]

Sure tackling safety over a coverage corner? Um, I'd do it too.

The Cover2 requires a sure safety more than a coverage corner. Now is that what they really intended? Who knows. But don't believe you were screwed by Dallas because they played what the board offered. EVERYONE knew they were looking for corner help. Having claiborne slide past MIN, with TRich already gone, probablly had them ringing phones up and down the next five spots. Tampa Bay moving back at all just made them dial faster before someone else jumped in.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

From what I've read about him, Barron was the QB for the D in Alabama. It takes smarts and leadership ability to run the D for Saban.

From what I've read about Claiborne, he's a complete idiot.

I like TB's choice.

 

[rizzler]

From what I've read about him, Barron was the QB for the D in Alabama. It takes smarts and leadership ability to run the D for Saban.

From what I've read about Claiborne, he's a complete idiot.

I like TB's choice.

Wonderlic score aside, Claiborne is a BRILLIANT footballer. Don't confuse the two. Academic intelligence is not an indicator of footballing smarts.Add Claiborne's post draft comments, talking to Sanders in tears about being able to provide for his mom, and being adamant that being drafted is only the beginning for him... I fell in love with the guy.

He oozed determination and was incredibly humble, whereas most high draft picks ooze arrogance on the mic.

Claiborne will be a star. But Barron was a great pick for Tampa

 

[Grahamburn]

From what I've read about him, Barron was the QB for the D in Alabama. It takes smarts and leadership ability to run the D for Saban.From what I've read about Claiborne, he's a complete idiot. I like TB's choice.

Team Captain the past two seasons and obvious leader. Apparently he also requested a playbook last night so he could study it on the plane flight to Tampa. Big fan.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

From what I've read about him, Barron was the QB for the D in Alabama. It takes smarts and leadership ability to run the D for Saban.

From what I've read about Claiborne, he's a complete idiot.

I like TB's choice.

Wonderlic score aside, Claiborne is a BRILLIANT footballer. Don't confuse the two. Academic intelligence is not an indicator of footballing smarts.Add Claiborne's post draft comments, talking to Sanders in tears about being able to provide for his mom, and being adamant that being drafted is only the beginning for him... I fell in love with the guy.

He oozed determination and was incredibly humble, whereas most high draft picks ooze arrogance on the mic.

Claiborne will be a star. But Barron was a great pick for Tampa

I don't care about his Wonderlic scores, it's the fact that he wasn't prepared for the Wonderlic and then just admittedly blew it off when asked to take it. He wasn't prepared then so why should I believe he'll be prepared in the future.Apparently he didn't care enough to be prepared.

Don't confuse God given athletic ability with any kind of brilliance.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I don't care about his Wonderlic scores, it's the fact that he wasn't prepared for the Wonderlic and then just admittedly blew it off when asked to take it. He wasn't prepared then so why should I believe he'll be prepared in the future.Apparently he didn't care enough to be prepared.Don't confuse God given athletic ability with any kind of brilliance.

I don't put much stock in Wonderlic's either, but it is a red flag that a pre-draft test is something he would decide to "blow off". The NFL is not a place to go into on sheer athletic talent and no preparation. It takes study, diligence. I think Barron is head and shoulder going to be the better player.

 

[gump]

I don't care about his Wonderlic scores, it's the fact that he wasn't prepared for the Wonderlic and then just admittedly blew it off when asked to take it. He wasn't prepared then so why should I believe he'll be prepared in the future.Apparently he didn't care enough to be prepared.Don't confuse God given athletic ability with any kind of brilliance.

I don't put much stock in Wonderlic's either, but it is a red flag that a pre-draft test is something he would decide to "blow off". The NFL is not a place to go into on sheer athletic talent and no preparation. It takes study, diligence. I think Barron is head and shoulder going to be the better player.

Yea...I don't understand what Claiborne, and his agent Bus Cook, were thinking. In the end it didn't mean much, but it may have cost him a slot or two.

 

[rizzler]

I don't care about his Wonderlic scores, it's the fact that he wasn't prepared for the Wonderlic and then just admittedly blew it off when asked to take it. He wasn't prepared then so why should I believe he'll be prepared in the future.Apparently he didn't care enough to be prepared.Don't confuse God given athletic ability with any kind of brilliance.

I don't put much stock in Wonderlic's either, but it is a red flag that a pre-draft test is something he would decide to "blow off". The NFL is not a place to go into on sheer athletic talent and no preparation. It takes study, diligence. I think Barron is head and shoulder going to be the better player.

Yea...I don't understand what Claiborne, and his agent Bus Cook, were thinking. In the end it didn't mean much, but it may have cost him a slot or two.

meh, with rookie salaries the way they are now, he's not losing out on much money, if any.and hell, he went from going to a good team (Tampa), to a team that could potentially make a SB run. worked out well for him.

 

[Grahamburn]

Remember also that the Bucs hired the LSU DB coach in the offseason. There is no doubt the Bucs didn't want Claiborne.

Another major red flag here. There must have been something negative about the young man other than this Wonderlic score if Cooper couldn't convince Dominik and Schiano he's the head and shoulders best CB in the draft.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

I don't care about his Wonderlic scores, it's the fact that he wasn't prepared for the Wonderlic and then just admittedly blew it off when asked to take it. He wasn't prepared then so why should I believe he'll be prepared in the future.

Apparently he didn't care enough to be prepared.

Don't confuse God given athletic ability with any kind of brilliance.

I don't put much stock in Wonderlic's either, but it is a red flag that a pre-draft test is something he would decide to "blow off". The NFL is not a place to go into on sheer athletic talent and no preparation. It takes study, diligence. I think Barron is head and shoulder going to be the better player.

Yea...I don't understand what Claiborne, and his agent Bus Cook, were thinking. In the end it didn't mean much, but it may have cost him a slot or two.

meh, with rookie salaries the way they are now, he's not losing out on much money, if any.

and hell, he went from going to a good team (Tampa), to a team that could potentially make a SB run.

worked out well for him.

What about the Cowboys since the Switzer led team that Jimmy Johnson molded tells you they're more ready to make a SB run than the TB Bucs?

 

[Donnybrook]

The wonderlic argument is amusing to me. Asante Samuel had a wonderlic of 8 and Patrick Peterson had a wonderlic of 9. I am not worried about Claiborne.

 

[rizzler]

I don't care about his Wonderlic scores, it's the fact that he wasn't prepared for the Wonderlic and then just admittedly blew it off when asked to take it. He wasn't prepared then so why should I believe he'll be prepared in the future.

Apparently he didn't care enough to be prepared.

Don't confuse God given athletic ability with any kind of brilliance.

I don't put much stock in Wonderlic's either, but it is a red flag that a pre-draft test is something he would decide to "blow off". The NFL is not a place to go into on sheer athletic talent and no preparation. It takes study, diligence. I think Barron is head and shoulder going to be the better player.

Yea...I don't understand what Claiborne, and his agent Bus Cook, were thinking. In the end it didn't mean much, but it may have cost him a slot or two.

meh, with rookie salaries the way they are now, he's not losing out on much money, if any.

and hell, he went from going to a good team (Tampa), to a team that could potentially make a SB run.

worked out well for him.

What about the Cowboys since the Switzer led team that Jimmy Johnson molded tells you they're more ready to make a SB run than the TB Bucs?

Vegas 2012/2013:

Dallas: 11:1 to win NFC

Tampa: 67:1 to win NFC

Minimum effort. Maximum Oomf.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

The wonderlic argument is amusing to me. Asante Samuel had a wonderlic of 8 and Patrick Peterson had a wonderlic of 9. I am not worried about Claiborne.

The wonderlic score doesn't matter because he admits he quit after 15-18 questions. It's the fact that he wasn't prepared for the test, didn't like what he saw, so he quit. Why did he quit? Because he noticed there "wasn't any questions about football. I didn't see no point in the test. I'm not in school anymore. I didn't complete it."

 

[scrumptrulescent]

I don't care about his Wonderlic scores, it's the fact that he wasn't prepared for the Wonderlic and then just admittedly blew it off when asked to take it. He wasn't prepared then so why should I believe he'll be prepared in the future.

Apparently he didn't care enough to be prepared.

Don't confuse God given athletic ability with any kind of brilliance.

I don't put much stock in Wonderlic's either, but it is a red flag that a pre-draft test is something he would decide to "blow off". The NFL is not a place to go into on sheer athletic talent and no preparation. It takes study, diligence. I think Barron is head and shoulder going to be the better player.

Yea...I don't understand what Claiborne, and his agent Bus Cook, were thinking. In the end it didn't mean much, but it may have cost him a slot or two.

meh, with rookie salaries the way they are now, he's not losing out on much money, if any.

and hell, he went from going to a good team (Tampa), to a team that could potentially make a SB run.

worked out well for him.

What about the Cowboys since the Switzer led team that Jimmy Johnson molded tells you they're more ready to make a SB run than the TB Bucs?

Vegas 2012/2013:

Dallas: 11:1 to win NFC

Tampa: 67:1 to win NFC

Minimum effort. Maximum Oomf.

Guess I'll lay money down on TB this year.

 

[rizzler]

Guess I'll lay money down on TB this year.

as an avid gambler and seeing what TB did with their offseason and 1st rnd of the draft, I support that decision.

 

[Deamon]

Given what CLE gave to move up to #3 (almost nothing) I'm skeptical the Bucs were serious about moving up. Also I'm not sure if getting "greedy" makes sense when they only got a 4th to move down.

I think you have to assume they're telling the truth - if they really had Claiborne way ahead of the field, then one would hope they would not be so stupid to risk losing him for a 4th round pick.

But who knows.

Almost nothing? Three draft picks is substantial. Even though they are late ones, it was only one spot.

Yeah, almost nothing. Guys who are a stretch to make the roster.

Most 4th rounders make it. Still was only one spot, minny cleaned up there.

 

[cstu]

The Bucs didn't want Claiborne, it's as simple as that.

 

[cstu]

The wonderlic argument is amusing to me. Asante Samuel had a wonderlic of 8 and Patrick Peterson had a wonderlic of 9. I am not worried about Claiborne.

The wonderlic score doesn't matter because he admits he quit after 15-18 questions. It's the fact that he wasn't prepared for the test, didn't like what he saw, so he quit. Why did he quit? Because he noticed there "wasn't any questions about football. I didn't see no point in the test. I'm not in school anymore. I didn't complete it."

And that's supposed to be good answer from him about it?

 

[bucsbaby]

From what I've read about him, Barron was the QB for the D in Alabama. It takes smarts and leadership ability to run the D for Saban.From what I've read about Claiborne, he's a complete idiot. I like TB's choice.

Team Captain the past two seasons and obvious leader. Apparently he also requested a playbook last night so he could study it on the plane flight to Tampa. Big fan.

 

[sspunisher]

No doubt lot of Tampa Bay fans in here, some valid arguments were made about Barron but that's not my point. I think TB assumed STL would stay put and many in the league believed that Fisher would take Cox or Brockers at #6 if Blackmon was gone. Source

Apparently Fisher was definitely mad when he found out about the trade, so it makes my original theory at least possible. Fisher's Reaction when TB Traded Back

 

[Prussian]

Claiborne is going to be another Deion Sanders. Great cover guy who does not know how to read blocks to play the run ... tackling itself is optional.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

No doubt lot of Tampa Bay fans in here, some valid arguments were made about Barron but that's not my point. I think TB assumed STL would stay put and many in the league believed that Fisher would take Cox or Brockers at #6 if Blackmon was gone. Source

Apparently Fisher was definitely mad when he found out about the trade, so it makes my original theory at least possible. Fisher's Reaction when TB Traded Back

While it does appear that Fisher was mad the Jags stole Blackmon from him, this in itself provides no insight into what the Bucs were thinking. It's not so much they didn't want Claiborne, but there were 3 players on the board they liked and there was no risk in trading down 2 spots regardless what Fisher did with the pick.

 

[rizzler]

Claiborne is going to be another Deion Sanders. Great cover guy who does not know how to read blocks to play the run ... tackling itself is optional.

sooooo..... a hall of famer?Not bad.

 

[gump]

No doubt lot of Tampa Bay fans in here, some valid arguments were made about Barron but that's not my point. I think TB assumed STL would stay put and many in the league believed that Fisher would take Cox or Brockers at #6 if Blackmon was gone. Source

Apparently Fisher was definitely mad when he found out about the trade, so it makes my original theory at least possible. Fisher's Reaction when TB Traded Back

Our point is not about Barron though...its that our GM would not be stupid enough to risk the player they coveted for a 4th...that's nuts.

 

[Premier]

No doubt lot of Tampa Bay fans in here, some valid arguments were made about Barron but that's not my point. I think TB assumed STL would stay put and many in the league believed that Fisher would take Cox or Brockers at #6 if Blackmon was gone. Source

Apparently Fisher was definitely mad when he found out about the trade, so it makes my original theory at least possible. Fisher's Reaction when TB Traded Back

The 6th pick of the draft was going to be Claiborne. You're a little nuts if you don't think the Bucs knew that.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

No doubt lot of Tampa Bay fans in here, some valid arguments were made about Barron but that's not my point. I think TB assumed STL would stay put and many in the league believed that Fisher would take Cox or Brockers at #6 if Blackmon was gone. Source

Apparently Fisher was definitely mad when he found out about the trade, so it makes my original theory at least possible. Fisher's Reaction when TB Traded Back

The 6th pick of the draft was going to be Claiborne. You're a little nuts if you don't think the Bucs knew that.

Yeah, it's perfectly obvious now that it's already happened; it's called hindsight bias.

 

[Premier]

No doubt lot of Tampa Bay fans in here, some valid arguments were made about Barron but that's not my point. I think TB assumed STL would stay put and many in the league believed that Fisher would take Cox or Brockers at #6 if Blackmon was gone. Source

Apparently Fisher was definitely mad when he found out about the trade, so it makes my original theory at least possible. Fisher's Reaction when TB Traded Back

The 6th pick of the draft was going to be Claiborne. You're a little nuts if you don't think the Bucs knew that.

Yeah, it's perfectly obvious now that it's already happened; it's called hindsight bias.

It's called trading out of the 5th Pick because he's not the guy you wanted. If the Bucs wanted Claiborne, they would've taken him. It's pretty freaking clear. Not even sure how this can be disputed.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

No doubt lot of Tampa Bay fans in here, some valid arguments were made about Barron but that's not my point. I think TB assumed STL would stay put and many in the league believed that Fisher would take Cox or Brockers at #6 if Blackmon was gone. Source

Apparently Fisher was definitely mad when he found out about the trade, so it makes my original theory at least possible. Fisher's Reaction when TB Traded Back

Our point is not about Barron though...its that our GM would not be stupid enough to risk the player they coveted for a 4th...that's nuts.

very Let that sink in for a minute and marinate some.

Who risks "their guy" for an additional 4th rounder? C'mon! Thats friggin insane and you know it. No one exposes their pick in the hopes of adding a backup corner/special teams gunner later in the draft. What really happened is Tampa just didn't want to choose Claiborne, and like Minnesota took a free pick to get the guy they wanted all along. End of story, end of wild conspiracy theory. Simple as that.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

No doubt lot of Tampa Bay fans in here, some valid arguments were made about Barron but that's not my point. I think TB assumed STL would stay put and many in the league believed that Fisher would take Cox or Brockers at #6 if Blackmon was gone. Source

Apparently Fisher was definitely mad when he found out about the trade, so it makes my original theory at least possible. Fisher's Reaction when TB Traded Back

The 6th pick of the draft was going to be Claiborne. You're a little nuts if you don't think the Bucs knew that.

Yeah, it's perfectly obvious now that it's already happened; it's called hindsight bias.

It's called trading out of the 5th Pick because he's not the guy you wanted. If the Bucs wanted Claiborne, they would've taken him. It's pretty freaking clear. Not even sure how this can be disputed.

Didn't someone post in the draft thread that Tampa was afraid Dallas was gonna take Barron when they traded up for the 6th pick? If so, then the Buccaneers brass weren't as positive that Claiborne would go 6th as you were.

 

[sspunisher]

I'm a huge Barron fan. I think in the end we'll consider both Claiborne and Barron elite players in the NFL. As of yesterday, however, Claiborne was clearly the more valuable player and TB didn't take advantage of that either by drafting him or maximizing trade value. I don't care what the trade chart says, Jacksonville was the 7th team picking in a draft that had 6 elite prospects. By definition, the 7th slot was the worst in the entire draft and should have commanded more than a 4th.

However you look at it, one of two things definitely happened:

1): Tampa actually wanted Claiborne and risked him for a 4th rounder.

2): Tampa wanted Barron all along and actually thought a 4th rounder was good value.

 

[lbouchard]

You can take the safety, I'll take the elite corner. Safety is one of the more easily stocked positions. Elite cornerbacks worth more than elite safeties.

 

[Premier]

I'm a huge Barron fan. I think in the end we'll consider both Claiborne and Barron elite players in the NFL. As of yesterday, however, Claiborne was clearly the more valuable player and TB didn't take advantage of that either by drafting him or maximizing trade value. I don't care what the trade chart says, Jacksonville was the 7th team picking in a draft that had 6 elite prospects. By definition, the 7th slot was the worst in the entire draft and should have commanded more than a 4th.However you look at it, one of two things definitely happened: 1): Tampa actually wanted Claiborne and risked him for a 4th rounder.2): Tampa wanted Barron all along and actually thought a 4th rounder was good value.

Who says their are only 6 premier prospects though? You? Mel Kiper? If the Bucs front office and their scouting staff thought there were 7 and had Barron on that list, then it's perfectly reasonable. People just spout their opinions or Kiper's or McShay's as if they are proven fact or something.

 

[N Zone]

Talib and Rhonde Barber are still starters. Barron is an immediate starter and fills a hole at strong safety. Bucs got their guy.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

I'm a huge Barron fan. I think in the end we'll consider both Claiborne and Barron elite players in the NFL. As of yesterday, however, Claiborne was clearly the more valuable player and TB didn't take advantage of that either by drafting him or maximizing trade value. I don't care what the trade chart says, Jacksonville was the 7th team picking in a draft that had 6 elite prospects. By definition, the 7th slot was the worst in the entire draft and should have commanded more than a 4th.

However you look at it, one of two things definitely happened:

1): Tampa actually wanted Claiborne and risked him for a 4th rounder.

2): Tampa wanted Barron all along and actually thought a 4th rounder was good value.

Who says their are only 6 premier prospects though? You? Mel Kiper? If the Bucs front office and their scouting staff thought there were 7 and had Barron on that list, then it's perfectly reasonable. People just spout their opinions or Kiper's or McShay's as if they are proven fact or something.