This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
A dubious claim? So the Packers played Jones over Cobb on the outside even though Cobb was better? Maybe you should get them on the phone and let them know how dubious that is. Not everything you disagree with is dubious or fantasy. I don't claim that Wheaton plays like Cobb; I don't think they do. My point was that it is harder for guys their size to be productive on the outside.
What a player shows in college does not directly translate to the NFL. You know that.
Gordon wasn't on my radar at this point in the process last year, so I can't really say where he as a prospet falls in my opinion. As far as what his current value equates to in this draft, right now, I'd take him over everyone, except maybe Patterson. But the NFL's opinion is very important so draft spot/situation could change that.
You can't be serious.
Jackson ran a 4.29. Would you project that for Wheaton?
What's your source? 4.35 to me.http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=57210&draftyear=2008&genpos=WR
http://40-yard-dash-times.com/desean-jackson-philadelphia-eagles-40-yard-fantasy-football.htmlAnd we can use 4.35. 4.35 O/U for Wheaton?
He ran 4.29 at his Pro Day. The link you provided says his 40 "low time" is 4.27.
In big writing it says 40 yard dash time 4.29. I just remember that 4.29 number and thought it was the combine. I just "Googled DeSean Jackson 40 yard dash 4.29". As I said, we can use 4.35, he was the fastest guy in his class. You think Wheaton runs that?
Sweet! On name alone I traded my 2013 2nd round rookie pick for him after week 1 this past season. I wanted to draft him in our rookie draft, but since our draft was the week prior to the supplemental draft, I couldn't.
The fact that the Packers use Cobb in the slot doesn't mean that they are using Jones "over" him on the outside. All it means is that they think Cobb offers the most value to the team in the slot. Imagine that you have two receivers.Receiver A is a 100 in the slot and an 85 outside.Receiver B is a 80 in the slot and an 80 outside.If you put receiver A in the slot and receiver B in the outside, you get 180 value. If you put receiver B in the slot and receiver A on the outside, you get 165 value. So in this hypothetical example, you'd play receiver A in the slot even though he's a better outside receiver than receiver B. The overall problem with your take is that it assumes a linear hierarchy in which the outside WR spot is so important that you put your best WR there regardless of other considerations. Cobb had more targets than Jones last season, so the idea that Green Bay played Jones "over" him seems to miss the point a little bit. But that's completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Regardless of whether or not he can play outside, Cobb hasn't been asked to do it. And thus it's not a totally safe assumption to think that he can. However, Wheaton has always played on the outside. He's already shown that he can thrive there, so the idea that he's destined for the slot in the NFL doesn't really jive with me, especially when you read about him destroying corners at the Senior Bowl.
You're right, it is not 100% relevant, but I want to correct you. Playing Jones and Nelson as the 2 WRs in all 2 WR sets (with jennings out) is pretty clearly playing Jones over Cobb. In every game where one of the GB WRs was injured (most of them), Jones got more snaps than Cobb by a good margin. Jones played in 2 and 3 WR sets, Cobb played in 3 WR sets. Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I am using Cobb as an example of a smaller guy being limited to the slot and it hurting his opportunities.ETA: Jones had a lot more snaps than Cobb.
Even more disappointing given you stated you respected his claim
Meh. We're both big boys. I do have a lot of respect for EBF. And we've traded quips before. I certainly don't take them personally and don't think he does either.Even more disappointing given you stated you respected his claim
The low time is just an estimate not an actual recorded time.
Pro Day times are always inflated. I'll take the Combine time.I'll take the over, but Wheaton doesn't need to run a 4.3x. Chris Givens ran a 4.41 and he gets deep easily and so does Wheaton. AJ Jenkins ran a 4.39, but is nowhere that fast on the field. Mike Thomas ran a 4.30; I don't see the speed on the field either.
I am not suggesting Wheaton can't get deep on NFL corners, he certainly can.
My thinking is along these same lines.'tdmills said:
Nice move, too bad he didn't actually catch the ball
You mean too bad the QB didn't put it where he could actually catch the ball.
He's explosive, but doesn't have great lateral agility. Especially when compared to Tavon Austin, they're close to the same size. I'd say a mid to late round draft pick.
Gillislee/Jon Franklin/Andre Ellington are all built close to the same. But Franklin/Ellington>>Gillislee.
Not that familiar with him. I caught some of the bowl game and he looked like an interesting athlete. He had pretty modest production in college though and sometimes these track types don't have the right mentality or toughness for football. He's going to struggle with beating the jam and running routes because he's so raw, but you can't teach speed. I look for him to go 3rd-4th round ala TJ Graham and Jacoby Ford. Hard to see him becoming a #1 WR in the NFL. In the right offense, maybe you get something like Antonio Brown.
I still need to watch more, but right now I'm not that high on Gillislee. Not that big and doesn't have the quickness/speed to compensate. I think he's probably just a backup in the NFL. Doesn't have enough standout traits to be more than that.
All those guys have different builds and dimensions.Gillislee reminds me of Mike Goodson.
Mike Gillislee 5'11 210Andre Ellington 5'9 192Jon Franklin 5'10 198Granted no two players are ever the same, but BMI wise they're close(It's not like Robbie Rouse is in here). They have similar games: good speed, try to run inside, slashers. I think Gillislee is the better inside runner, Ellington the best outside guy, with Franklin having the best all around game.
If they do not have hands of stone. And don't know if Wheaton does or not
I thought Wheaton looked pretty good on Saturday. My thoughts and with EBF liking, he moves up my rankings all the time.
Not EBF, but my opinion:As a Gator fan, I've watched close to every game this year, one in person. He just doesn't have anything special about him. He has some nice balance and he is a smart runner. But again, nothing special. He doesn't look as strong or as feisty as Morris. And he looks smaller in pads, but not faster. He won't break nearly as many tackles as Morris at the next level.For one reason or another, the NFL comp that comes to mind for me is Tashard Choice.
I agree. He had a great cut on the 3rd and 4 near the end of the Senior Bowl. It was the best run of the game.
Personally, I could care less how many snaps my WR is getting if he's getting the most targets. My league doesn't give me points for my WR's blocking on a running play.
Well, if he ended up with the Cards or Vikings it certainly wouldn't move him up my FF draft boards, that's for sure.
He needs to be totally ignored as a prospect even after the draft to be this year's alfred Morris, but I think they have different styles anyway. Overall, I think there is a lot of nice to his game and could be a functional starter, but is more probably to be a 2nd part of committee or clean back-up. I am guessing something like a 4th/5th rounder in the NFL.
Which is fine. If his owners are treating him as though this was a baseline, or even a good year, I don't think Cobb is overrated. But Cobb has one of the best slot gigs in the NFL. Most teams aren't nearly as explosive as the Packers, so even if Wheaton (or whomever) is a Cobb level talent, it is not likely he provides Cobb level production. If we made a list of strictly slot players with WR1 fantasy potential, we couldn't count 5 guys. If (a big if; we'll see) Wheaton is strictly a slot guy, his fantasy value is kerriganed.
There are plenty of RBs on Alf's roster who could provide more out of the backfield; it's not saying much about Gillislee, who didn't have anything but average passing numbers. And a lot of that was due to the FLA staff not trusting their QB to throw beyond 5-7 yards very often. In other words, unless the prospect we are comparing Alfred to is starting level, it doesn't matter how they compare to him as a receiver.
attersonHopkinsAllen---------Huge fall off from here for me.
I'm not familiar with who runs track and who doesn't. Do you have examples of track guys who have put on muscle and then busted out in their 3rd year?
I agree with most of this. Chris Harper really stands out to me on tape and the Boldin comparisons are easy to see. Like Boldin he's also a converted QB.
