Dynasty: Josh Gordon is not a top tier player...right? (1 Viewer)

[Gandalf]

I think Concept Coop has it right.

If I were picking WRs in a start up dynasty league, I would go:

Green

CJ

Demariyus

Gordon

Dez

Julio (injury scares me a bit)

Honestly though. On any given day and any given matchup ANY of these players could be the #1 WR in the league. Really just get one on your team and you should be fine.

 

[ghostguy123]

His QB situation was as bad as it gets, but I think Norv Turner's offense was good for him.

He is a stud. He looked like a stud in the making his rookie season if you actually watched all the games (which us Browns fans tend to do).

Would I pay top price tag for him right now?? No. Would I right before the season starts if he stays clean? Yes.

Oh, and for the people comparing Gordon's #s to Rice, just stop. It makes you look really idiotic to say that a few more yards in 2013 is somehow better that what Rice got in like 1986.

May as well tell me next that Weeden is better than Troy Aikman cause he had more yards. pleaaaase

 

[Baeddel Moon]

The pro-Gordon folks seem to be underestimating Gordon's actual current market value. Saying you have him in the elite WR tier pretty much means nothing other than that you probably won't be getting him in any startups this offseason. The latest mocks have his ADP at #2... overall. Yeah, ahead of Calvin, Julio, Dez, DT, McCoy, Graham, and everyone else except AJG. How is he NOT over-rated once you account for the risks?

Luckily for us, that same ADP list has a parallel for Gordon's "risk" in Justin Blackmon, WR19. And that's based on roughly 4 games of production and some college hype. If Gordon gets suspended, he'll still have fans willing to pay WR10 prices for him. Can you say the same if Julio Jones has another foot flare up? And will Dez be able to keep his head on straight now that the Cowboys are entering cap hell? As an owner, I'd rather see my player get suspended with a year to heal their body than have to spend that time rehabbing an injury to get back where they started. It just depends on what kind of risk you prefer to take on your roster.

I couldn't disagree more strongly with this. Considering modern medicine vs recidivism rates among addicts, any injury (with the possible exception of multiple concussions) offers way less risk moving forward than a substance abuse problem.

I think the NFL does what it can to protect its star players. Aaron Hernandez didn't have a strike in the program, but there are all sorts of reports about his PCP usage. Drug addiction is a wide spread problem in the NFL, guys just smarten up about how to avoid getting caught. Marijuana, the drug Josh Gordon tested positive for, his drug of choice, stays in the body's system for longer, but is much less physically addictive than even say tobacco. It's unfair and unwise for your fantasy teams to lump all players with substance issue as the same level of "addict." Not every addict is a Matt Jones. They could be a Hall of Famer like Dan Marino (http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2011/01/dan_marino_smoke_pot.php) But, another thing I'd like to point out is modern medicine is not saving David Wilson's career. Often players are able to come back, but then have trouble regaining their prior form. I could list dozens of players like Ahmad Bradshaw or Bob Sanders who had young promising careers derailed by injuries. Medical decisions pop up, and many players and teams are short sited, and make moves that shorten their careers for short term benefits.

Agreed that Blackmon's ADP is off in those mocks, but if Gordon's being at ADP of 2 is fair game to discuss, then you have to bring in his closest parallel Blackmon into play. I still think that in case of a positive test, a Gordon owner could hold until the suspension is about to be lifted and then sell and make out fine. The real risk you're taking on as a Gordon owner is if the suspension comes down during a fantasy playoff run, because there won't be a comparable available piece.

 

[T with T]

Look at his QBs

Look at his numbers.

/discussion

If it was that simple, maybe. But it's really not. At all. If you told me his 2013 situation was going to continue for the next 10 years, I'd be doing backflips as a Gordon owner.

I watch him every. single. sunday.

I egt insta cred right there... watching the Browns. little to nothing to cheer for... so when the O is on the field I watch Gordon CLOSELY.

Believe me when I say, he hasnt scratched the surface of his potential. When he sorts out some of his drops, gets a legit QB - his fantasy value will be top 3 certified.

Just look at how few TDs he scores in the red zone - that's on piss poor QBing.

this thread is pointless and has no reason even being discussed.. Josh Gordon is a stud.

 

[buck naked]

C'mon man.. use your head a little. I was obviously being sarcastic

But statistically, yes... he's been better than Rice over their first two years.

Only if you ignore the fact that Rice only started 4 games his rookie season. He had 20 touchdowns and 2,500 yards and he only started 19 games during that span.

Wrong.

Very wrong.

I took Rices first two full seasons. 16+16

Gordon has a better yds/game average

If you put Gordon on those SF teams with Montana and Young at QB, he could put up the same numbers that Rice did. The one difference is that Rice worked really really hard to be great, and I'm not sure that is true for Gordon. He takes plays off.

 

[buck naked]

I'm not gonna sit here and say 'josh Gordon is not a deep threat'.

But you do realize a huge chunk of his big gains were all yards AFTER the catch. he MAKES the plays, more than the plays making him.

That's why I dont give too much credence to the Norv effect on JG

ETA: 619 yards after catch - good for #4 in the NFL

Gordon is one of the best WRs after the catch. You are right about that.

But you cannot discount the effect Norv Turner has on a player. Harstad is right about that. This pattern has gone on for years with Turner offenses.

I think both camps are right on this - Gordon is fantastic after the catch, but Turner helped him get great stats with a ton of 20+ yard catches.

 

[Concept Coop]

this thread is pointless and has no reason even being discussed.. Josh Gordon is a stud.

I think you missed the point of it, then. No questioned his status as a stud.

 

[Concept Coop]

If you put Gordon on those SF teams with Montana and Young at QB, he could put up the same numbers that Rice did. The one difference is that Rice worked really really hard to be great, and I'm not sure that is true for Gordon. He takes plays off.

Can we let the guy reach Moss/TO/Fitz/AJ level before comparing in to the best of all time?

 

[T with T]

Or Calvin to... Sorry maybe I missed the point you were saying is he truly a top 5 player and seeing what he did last year and his age(23) I think he is def a top 5 player in the league for now and future. I think he will get his #### together as far as off field problems. He should get better with a real qb this year.

 

[T with T]

the way the post read it says Josh Gordon is not a top tier player right? Well what do you consider a top tier player? someone who had 299 fpoints in ppr and 23 p/game second only to JC???? I consider that TOP Tier as he was only the second best fantasy player last year and no reason if he doesn't sure up some drops remain as good or better.

 

[T with T]

Josh Gordon is the only wr to even have a shot at Calvins throne for being top wr... I love guys like Julio, AJG, Marshall,Dez but Gordon is only real threat to Calvin next 4 years imo.....

 

[Concept Coop]

the way the post read it says Josh Gordon is not a top tier player right? Well what do you consider a top tier player? someone who had 299 fpoints in ppr and 23 p/game second only to JC???? I consider that TOP Tier as he was only the second best fantasy player last year and no reason if he doesn't sure up some drops remain as good or better.

Blackmon is a stud and put up crazy numbers too. Where is he in your rankings? Top 5?

 

[Concept Coop]

Miles Austin's 2009 numbers per start, pro-rated to 16 games: 101/1,653/13

Gordon wouldn't be the first to burst onto the scene with crazy numbers and never repeat them.

 

[Gandalf]

I think Gordon is getting a bit overvalued. A lot went right for him this year. He'll have a new QB to develop chemistry and defenses will be making him the top priority to stop in 2014. And safeties will respect his speed more or learn to pick better angles. I think that was a big part of it. He plays surprisingly fast and the cat is now out of the bag so to speak. I still think Gordon is immensely talented just am not ready to put him in the top 5 especially with the off field stuff. Top 10 definitely.

 

[Mene]

The hyperbole in this thread is getting close to out of control. The heir apparent to Calvin, could have matched Rice.... really?

Calvin is regarded as the best right now because there is really nothing like him physically. He separated himself from the pack when he came in because his size, speed, and athleticism were unique for the position... hell, for a human being. His work ethic and desire have allowed him utilize those attributes to put up numbers to support his claim as best in the game currently. There was never a knucklehead factor to be concerned with from him, he has always been humble and hard working.

Rice put up numbers that border on absurd, and did so during an era when DB's could actually play defense. There are no comparisons to him, and I've always felt that you immediately weaken your argument when you try to. The numbers, the "experts", his contemporaries, everyone pretty much agree's with this. Fans are about the only ones who ever try to knock him from that perch, and it's usually fans of another WR, who aren't looking at it objectively.

Gordon has nothing that distinguishes him from the pack of AJ, DT, Dez, Julio, Fitz... whoever you want to put in that second tier, other than one outstanding season. I do not dispute that the numbers were spectacular, but to deny that a large contributing factor was the situation, is just silly. Gordon is an elite WR, he belongs in the conversation with the second tier of WR's, behind Calvin, but lets pump the brakes here just a bit.

Gordon has firmly planted himself into that second tier of elite WR's currently in the NFL, but the declarations that he is now clearly number 2, nipping at the heels of number 1... is a little premature. What exactly does Gordon do, or what attribute does he have, that so clearly separates him? If all you can fall back on is the numbers from last season, I think you are disillusioning yourself. Examples have been given already of guys who have busted onto the scene with similar numbers.

If you want to take Gordon as the second WR off the board, I won't disagree. I also wouldn't disagree if you decided he was wr4, wr5, or even WR9 or 10 on your board. I will however question how you can so easily determine he is absolutely WR2, and will vehemently disagree if you try to compare him to Rice.

 

[salmonstud]

I acquired Josh Gordon in every league I'm in. Gordon didn't join the Browns until July last year & missed all of the May & June mini-camps. It took him awhile to become acclimated but he still showed flashes of monumental talent & was my #1 offseason & early season target. This year after a being able to attend a full pre-season of camps he looked phenomenal from game 1 (after a 2 game suspension). He led the league in fantasy points per game (22.5) at WR. The fact that he is 22 years old can't be overlooked from not only what he has done on the field but also his maturity off the field. I was getting into quite a bit of trouble myself at 20-21 but grew up. Some players do at some point wake up & seem to get it - see Chris Carter & Dez Bryant. I liked the fact that Gordon came out at the end of the season & said that he wants to be the top WR in the league in 2014. He seems like he is not content with just being a top WR. If he is serious he knows the only thing that will derail him is drinking/using. If he doesn't have anymore off the field issues I think he will be a top 10 WR for the next 8-10 years regardless of QB or offensive scheme. I wouldn't trade him for Calvin Johnson simply due to the age difference. I probably would move him only for DT & AJ Green. I'm all in on Gordon. Hell, even if he screws up again & gets a 1 year suspension next year - he would be only 24 if he was reinstated the following year.

 

[Concept Coop]

Hell, even if he screws up again & gets a 1 year suspension next year - he would be only 24 if he was reinstated the following year.

I think it could be more damning than that, however. That's a lot of risk for an NFL team to take on. He's talented, so he'll get plenty of chances, but I don't think it's as simple as him missing a season and then everything going back to normal.

What is strike 3? Another year? I thought it was more than that, but I could be wrong.

 

[KellysHeroes]

He is going to command the same price in August that he will now. I have absolutely no concerns about him once training camp starts, but between now and then? Oh yeah. Why bother paying the premium now when you don't know if he'll go dip #### between now and then? Wait it out and if he stays clean pay the same price in August that you will now. Imho, there is no issue with him on the field, regardless of all the changes.

pretty good posting

sell high if you fear the knucklehead factor

 

[Sabertooth]

Right now I have Gordon behind Antonio Brown and Desean Jackson.

 

[Soulfly3]

Right now I have Gordon behind Antonio Brown and Desean Jackson.

Are you sorting by league experience?

 

[Sabertooth]

No just don't think we've seen the last of Gordon's shenanigans. Both those other guys are young and have plenty of tread on the tires.

 

[Soulfly3]

No just don't think we've seen the last of Gordon's shenanigans. Both those other guys are young and have plenty of tread on the tires.

so given the choice of player you'd take DeSean over Gordon?

I have trouble believing anyone in their right mind would do that

 

[JAK Straw]

It's been stated in this thread that he's one mistake away from a year suspension, but apparently that's not clear. See the discussion in the other Josh Gordon thread starting around post 1846 on page 37:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=645846&page=37

 

[Coeur de Lion]

No just don't think we've seen the last of Gordon's shenanigans. Both those other guys are young and have plenty of tread on the tires.

so given the choice of player you'd take DeSean over Gordon?

I have trouble believing anyone in their right mind would do that

It's no more extreme than ranking Gordon at #1 overall. IMO, there's a time to roll the dice on upside / risk -- and that time doesn't include the 1st round, let alone at 1.01 overall.

 

[T with T]

the way the post read it says Josh Gordon is not a top tier player right? Well what do you consider a top tier player? someone who had 299 fpoints in ppr and 23 p/game second only to JC???? I consider that TOP Tier as he was only the second best fantasy player last year and no reason if he doesn't sure up some drops remain as good or better.

Blackmon is a stud and put up crazy numbers too. Where is he in your rankings? Top 5?

blackmon or gordon? Two diff guys. Gordon is not suspended is he?

 

[T with T]

No just don't think we've seen the last of Gordon's shenanigans. Both those other guys are young and have plenty of tread on the tires.

Gordon is def ahead of them two guy esp in a dynasty.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Some players do at some point wake up & seem to get it - see Chris Carter & Dez Bryant.

I know Dez was/is a little bit of knucklehead but was any of that related to drugs? And Chris played in a different time when NFL turned a blind to drug/alcohol abuse, again he didn't change until he just about lost everything and thankfully he got over his demons and had a great career.

 

[T with T]

No just don't think we've seen the last of Gordon's shenanigans. Both those other guys are young and have plenty of tread on the tires.

so given the choice of player you'd take DeSean over Gordon?

I have trouble believing anyone in their right mind would do that

It's no more extreme than ranking Gordon at #1 overall. IMO, there's a time to roll the dice on upside / risk -- and that time doesn't include the 1st round, let alone at 1.01 overall.

So Gordon isn't a first round pick in a ppr start up? early 2nd?

 

[KellysHeroes]

It's been stated in this thread that he's one mistake away from a year suspension, but apparently that's not clear. See the discussion in the other Josh Gordon thread starting around post 1846 on page 37:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=645846&page=37

Fact is he was suspended once already for something to do with the drug policy and was able to reduce it to 2 games (loss of 4 game checks); if he slips he'll miss a lot of time during the next suspension.

 

[Concept Coop]

the way the post read it says Josh Gordon is not a top tier player right? Well what do you consider a top tier player? someone who had 299 fpoints in ppr and 23 p/game second only to JC???? I consider that TOP Tier as he was only the second best fantasy player last year and no reason if he doesn't sure up some drops remain as good or better.

Blackmon is a stud and put up crazy numbers too. Where is he in your rankings? Top 5?

blackmon or gordon? Two diff guys. Gordon is not suspended is he?

No. But that is the point I was trying to make. You suggested Gordon is an elite talent, thus, a top tier dynasty player. My question was rhetorical; pointing out that more goes into your rankings that talent and age (rightfully so). Suspension and potential for suspension should both be considered.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

No just don't think we've seen the last of Gordon's shenanigans. Both those other guys are young and have plenty of tread on the tires.

so given the choice of player you'd take DeSean over Gordon?

I have trouble believing anyone in their right mind would do that

It's no more extreme than ranking Gordon at #1 overall. IMO, there's a time to roll the dice on upside / risk -- and that time doesn't include the 1st round, let alone at 1.01 overall.

So Gordon isn't a first round pick in a ppr start up? early 2nd?

I have Calvin, AJG, DT, Dez, and Julio definitely ahead of him at WR -- same talent IMO and less risk. Alshon Jeffrey maybe. Percy Harvin maybe. I'd definitely take McCoy and Graham ahead of him. Charles maybe. Martin maybe.

I can see a situation where he'd be the top guy on my board late in the 1st, but I wouldn't be thrilled about it and would likely try to trade down. Luckily I don't think it will matter -- there will likely be a huge Gordon fan or three in every league so he'll probably be going ahead of a handful of the WRs that I prefer to him.

 

[Soulfly3]

No just don't think we've seen the last of Gordon's shenanigans. Both those other guys are young and have plenty of tread on the tires.

so given the choice of player you'd take DeSean over Gordon?

I have trouble believing anyone in their right mind would do that

It's no more extreme than ranking Gordon at #1 overall. IMO, there's a time to roll the dice on upside / risk -- and that time doesn't include the 1st round, let alone at 1.01 overall.

So Gordon isn't a first round pick in a ppr start up? early 2nd?

I have Calvin, AJG, DT, Dez, and Julio definitely ahead of him at WR -- same talent IMO and less risk. Alshon Jeffrey maybe. Percy Harvin maybe. I'd definitely take McCoy and Graham ahead of him. Charles maybe. Martin maybe.

I can see a situation where he'd be the top guy on my board late in the 1st, but I wouldn't be thrilled about it and would likely try to trade down. Luckily I don't think it will matter -- there will likely be a huge Gordon fan or three in every league so he'll probably be going ahead of a handful of the WRs that I prefer to him.

So, instead of a guy who could be suspended for a year, you take the guy who is always injured for the year.



eta: you'd need to combine Harvin's two best receiving years to add up to Gordon's year this year, basically. No way Id even consider in my wildest dreams to take him before gordon.

The rest, ya an argument can always be made

 

[Sabertooth]

No just don't think we've seen the last of Gordon's shenanigans. Both those other guys are young and have plenty of tread on the tires.

Gordon is def ahead of them two guy esp in a dynasty.

No, not really. He could miss a whole season fully healthy soon. Look at Blackmon. Uber talented. Didn't help you win much though this year did he?

 

[T with T]

No just don't think we've seen the last of Gordon's shenanigans. Both those other guys are young and have plenty of tread on the tires.

so given the choice of player you'd take DeSean over Gordon?

I have trouble believing anyone in their right mind would do that

It's no more extreme than ranking Gordon at #1 overall. IMO, there's a time to roll the dice on upside / risk -- and that time doesn't include the 1st round, let alone at 1.01 overall.

So Gordon isn't a first round pick in a ppr start up? early 2nd?

I have Calvin, AJG, DT, Dez, and Julio definitely ahead of him at WR -- same talent IMO and less risk. Alshon Jeffrey maybe. Percy Harvin maybe. I'd definitely take McCoy and Graham ahead of him. Charles maybe. Martin maybe.

I can see a situation where he'd be the top guy on my board late in the 1st, but I wouldn't be thrilled about it and would likely try to trade down. Luckily I don't think it will matter -- there will likely be a huge Gordon fan or three in every league so he'll probably be going ahead of a handful of the WRs that I prefer to him.

Percy Harvin Maybe???? you kidding me that's laughable. You are not to be taken seriously. A guy who has a bad hip or headaches over a guy like Gordon is not even a question imo.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

No just don't think we've seen the last of Gordon's shenanigans. Both those other guys are young and have plenty of tread on the tires.

so given the choice of player you'd take DeSean over Gordon?

I have trouble believing anyone in their right mind would do that

It's no more extreme than ranking Gordon at #1 overall. IMO, there's a time to roll the dice on upside / risk -- and that time doesn't include the 1st round, let alone at 1.01 overall.

So Gordon isn't a first round pick in a ppr start up? early 2nd?

I have Calvin, AJG, DT, Dez, and Julio definitely ahead of him at WR -- same talent IMO and less risk. Alshon Jeffrey maybe. Percy Harvin maybe. I'd definitely take McCoy and Graham ahead of him. Charles maybe. Martin maybe.I can see a situation where he'd be the top guy on my board late in the 1st, but I wouldn't be thrilled about it and would likely try to trade down. Luckily I don't think it will matter -- there will likely be a huge Gordon fan or three in every league so he'll probably be going ahead of a handful of the WRs that I prefer to him.

Percy Harvin Maybe???? you kidding me that's laughable. You are not to be taken seriously. A guy who has a bad hip or headaches over a guy like Gordon is not even a question imo.

From week 8 of 2011 through week 8 of 2012 Percy Harvin was the best WR in PPR FF, in a situation every bit as crappy for a WR as any in the NFL. Since then he's been injured. Personally, I don't put a ton of weight on the whole "injury prone" thing. YMMV. I do have both years of professional experience and post-graduate education in psychology / mental health, and am quite familiar with the disease of drug addiction. The chance of relapse vs the chance of another unrelated season ending injury isn't even close based on my experience. If Gordon (and Blackmon) are addicts, it's unfortunately a matter of "when," not "if."

 

[Soulfly3]

Marijuana 'addicts' lol

 

[Baeddel Moon]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2137525

"I have used, you know, marijuana ... since I've been in the league," Moss said in an interview for HBO's "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel" scheduled to air Tuesday night. "But as far as abusing it and, you know, letting it take control over me, I don't do that, no."

When pressed whether he still smokes marijuana, the star receiver with the checkered past said: "I might. I might have fun. And, you know, hopefully ... I won't get into any trouble by the NFL by saying that, you know. I have had fun throughout my years and, you know, predominantly in the offseason. -Randy Moss, 2005

Such character risk. Take him off your board everybody.

 

[Concept Coop]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2137525

"I have used, you know, marijuana ... since I've been in the league," Moss said in an interview for HBO's "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel" scheduled to air Tuesday night. "But as far as abusing it and, you know, letting it take control over me, I don't do that, no."

When pressed whether he still smokes marijuana, the star receiver with the checkered past said: "I might. I might have fun. And, you know, hopefully ... I won't get into any trouble by the NFL by saying that, you know. I have had fun throughout my years and, you know, predominantly in the offseason. -Randy Moss, 2005

Such character risk. Take him off your board everybody.

That's a strawman, and I suggest you read a bit about the new banned substance policy.

 

[Concept Coop]

Marijuana 'addicts' lol

People are addicted to video games, porn, food, etc. If they are willing to risk their livelihood again and again, I think addict is the correct term.

 

[Baeddel Moon]

http://www.twincities.com/ci_20357723/vikings-percy-harvin-reportedly-had-drug-discipline-issues

Or the safe choice, Percy Harvin. He's surely matured and not just smarter about testing.

As for the substance abuse policy, there is no confirmation that Gordon is on stage 3 status. His suspension being reduced to two games makes me think that he is actually in stage 2. If he is indeed in stage 3, that's a value hit, agreed. But I'd still call him a top 3 receiver because I believe in his talent is superior to the likes of DT, and disagree about the golden situation you say he fell into.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Marijuana 'addicts' lol

First of all, the psychological components of addiction are every bit as real and probably far more dangerous than the physical side. It is absolutely possible to be addicted to weed.

Second of all, IIRC Gordon's most recent issue was with "purple drank." Alcohol and Codeine are definitely way less harmless than "just weed."

 

[Concept Coop]

But I'd still call him a top 3 receiver because I believe in his talent is superior to the likes of DT, and disagree about the golden situation you say he fell into.

What do you think he does better than DT? I think the two play a lot alike, and didn't notice mucht that Gordon did that DT can't also do. I watched more DT than Gordon this year, however.

 

[Baeddel Moon]

Marijuana 'addicts' lol

First of all, the psychological components of addiction are every bit as real and probably far more dangerous than the physical side. It is absolutely possible to be addicted to weed.

Second of all, IIRC Gordon's most recent issue was with "purple drank." Alcohol and Codeine are definitely way less harmless than "just weed."

Of course you can be addicted to weed. But that's where the philosophical disagreement comes into play. http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7819621/ncf-oregon-ducks-deny-drug-culture-eugene-espn-magazine

NEWS FLASH: COLLEGE kids smoke weed. That includes, according to an NCAA study released in January, 22.6 percent of athletes -- up 1.4 percentage points from the previous study in 2005. College football players (26.7 percent) ranked the highest among major sports.

If 1/4th of the college players are smoking it, it is easy to see how that can translate to the NFL. What's the general policy with these "addicts?" The players who aren't in the program are only tested once per year for illegal street drugs.

While the common perception is that the NFL employs a strict, random drug testing policy, when it comes to street drugs like marijuana that’s simply not the case. As former wide receiver turned convicted drug trafficker Sam Hurd told Michael McKnight of Sports Illustrated’s TheMMQB.com, he smoked pot “all day, every day” during his NFL career, and distributed weed to 20-25 of his teammates. It would seem beating the NFL’s marijuana testing was the least of their worries. As Michael David Smith broke down on ProFootballTalk.com, “According to Hurd, players know approximately what time of year they’ll get tested and just stop using when the test is coming up, then use again the rest of the year once they’ve provided their annual urine sample.” source http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/12/sam-hurd-cocaine-bust/8/

There is only one test a year for street drugs outside of the program, roughly around the beginning of training camp. It's a league full of addicts. Gordon was just stupid enough to get caught.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Yeah, I've smoked a ton of weed in my lifetime. But when I had a job that tested me, or when I've been looking for a job, and now that I have kids old enough to find my stash or smell it on me, I stopped. I agree that it should be legal, and that most of the time it's no big deal, less dangerous than booze, etc.

But the NFL doesn't see it that way. And when someone is continuing to burn in the face of possibly losing millions of dollars, that's an entirely different discussion than is college kids smoking all the time.

 

[menobrown]

I think Gordon is getting a bit overvalued. A lot went right for him this year. He'll have a new QB to develop chemistry and defenses will be making him the top priority to stop in 2014. And safeties will respect his speed more or learn to pick better angles. I think that was a big part of it. He plays surprisingly fast and the cat is now out of the bag so to speak. I still think Gordon is immensely talented just am not ready to put him in the top 5 especially with the off field stuff. Top 10 definitely.

Seems like a big stretch to me. I'd say just about nothing went right for him other than staying healthy the 14 games he was active.

For starters he missed two games.

Bringing up the QB as a positive factor for what he did this past season or a negative factor going forward makes no sense to me, especially the chemistry part. I mean he just played with a revolving door of crappy QB's he had little to no chemistry with.

Defenses knew about his speed and made stopping him a priority this year.

Way I see it other than staying injury free nothing really went right for him at all.

If suspension concerns for off the field behavior did not exist I'd place him as WR1 overall due to production and age so really for me any knocking of his rankings from that point on have nothing to do with on field performance and everything to do with suspension concerns. I don't get real bogged down with top 5 type rankings but I know for me he begins to enter the discussion exactly at WR5, after relatively young guys with no issues in Julio, Dez, AJ and DT. Does not mean I have him rated but 5 but that's where he enters the discussion with 2-3 other players so he's be no worse than WR7.

 

[Concept Coop]

Bringing up the QB as a positive factor for what he did this past season or a negative factor going forward makes no sense to me, especially the chemistry part. I mean he just played with a revolving door of crappy QB's he had little to no chemistry with.

I don't think anyone made such claims. All you have to do is Youtube his highlights to see how many of his TDs came from poor angles and single missed tackles. That is a result of his freakish speed and ability. I am not questioning that or chalking it up to luck. But those plays can vary year to year. Victor Cruz and Miles Austin both had like seasons and both came back down to earth. At one point in the season all of his 7 TDs came from 20+ yards out. That won't hold up year to year. What happens when it doesn't, and his production is a human 90/1300/7? Is he still worth more than safer option who are doing the same?

 

[menobrown]

There is only one test a year for street drugs outside of the program, roughly around the beginning of training camp. It's a league full of addicts. Gordon was just stupid enough to get caught.

I think he might have entered the league already in the substance abuse program. Reports vary on this. If so he's been randomly tested since he entered the league.

 

[Baeddel Moon]

But I'd still call him a top 3 receiver because I believe in his talent is superior to the likes of DT, and disagree about the golden situation you say he fell into.

What do you think he does better than DT? I think the two play a lot alike, and didn't notice mucht that Gordon did that DT can't also do. I watched more DT than Gordon this year, however.

They are similar, more similar than I would have said when I made that statement. I think Gordon is quicker in the open field and has better hands (despite a worse catch rate than DT this year, admittedly), I also have doubts about DT continuing on as a top 5 WR post Manning. I like Gordon because he did what he did with absolutely no one outside of Jordan Cameron to distract the defense. I have a hard time seeing what could get worse, especially with Kubiak rumored as the new Browns OC. He won't have 7 TDs from 20 out every year, but they were only from that far out because the rest of the offense couldn't move without him. A more productive offense would allow him opportunity for red zone targets, which he also excels in.

Yeah, I've smoked a ton of weed in my lifetime. But when I has a job that tested me, or when I've been looking for a job, and now that I have kids old enough to find my stash or smell it on me, I stopped. I agree that it should be legal, and that most of the time it's no big deal, less dangerous than booze, etc.

But the NFL doesn't see it that way. And when someone is continuing to burn in the face of possibly losing millions of dollars, that's an entirely different discussion than is college kids smoking all the time.

I think that the fact they're only testing for street drugs once a year in the general population of players means they don't care. It's a PR campaign essentially. Sometimes players will get martyred to that, but most of the addicts skate through with good advice.

 

[Baeddel Moon]

There is only one test a year for street drugs outside of the program, roughly around the beginning of training camp. It's a league full of addicts. Gordon was just stupid enough to get caught.

I think he might have entered the league already in the substance abuse program. Reports vary on this. If so he's been randomly tested since he entered the league.

Yes, Gordon is definitely in the program. The question is on what stage of the program. Players on stage two or lower eventually can get out after a number of clean tests. Stage 3 is permanent.

 

[menobrown]

Bringing up the QB as a positive factor for what he did this past season or a negative factor going forward makes no sense to me, especially the chemistry part. I mean he just played with a revolving door of crappy QB's he had little to no chemistry with.

I don't think anyone made such claims. All you have to do is Youtube his highlights to see how many of his TDs came from poor angles and single missed tackles. That is a result of his freakish speed and ability. I am not questioning that or chalking it up to luck. But those plays can vary year to year. Victor Cruz and Miles Austin both had like seasons and both came back down to earth. At one point in the season all of his 7 TDs came from 20+ yards out. That won't hold up year to year. What happens when it doesn't, and his production is a human 90/1300/7? Is he still worth more than safer option who are doing the same?

I felt like the person I quoted was making that claim.

As to your point about making long TD's being a part of his production I consider that positive in terms of his long term outlook. He's a natural deep threat receiver so I have confidence he'll continue to produce big plays but his production inside the red zone was next to nothing. I tend to look at him not from the perspective of what will happen if he makes less big TD plays, which will happen some years, but instead imagine his growth potential when he becomes more of a factor inside the red zone.