Dynasty: Josh Gordon is not a top tier player...right? (1 Viewer)

[menobrown]

There is only one test a year for street drugs outside of the program, roughly around the beginning of training camp. It's a league full of addicts. Gordon was just stupid enough to get caught.

I think he might have entered the league already in the substance abuse program. Reports vary on this. If so he's been randomly tested since he entered the league.

Yes, Gordon is definitely in the program. The question is on what stage of the program. Players on stage two or lower eventually can get out after a number of clean tests. Stage 3 is permanent.

No one really knows what stage is he's in but that was not my point.

Point was while failing a drug test when your career is on the line is stupid it's still not as stupid of failing a drug test when you only have to pass one a year and you know when that test is coming. You indicated Gordon was stupid enough to get caught after stating you only get tested once a year for street drugs. In his case that might not have been true because if he entered the league already in the substance issue program he was never limited to the one pre-season test per year. He would have entered the league getting randomly tested all year.

 

[Jercules]

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

RIcky Williams

 

[KellysHeroes]

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

RIcky Williams

aaron hernandez, justin blackmon, bountygate

the new NFL doesn't care who you are

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I have no idea what this ... ... expedition is all about but anyone arguing Josh Gordon isn't a top FF WR is insane.

Jerry Rice and Josh Gordon at the Pro Bowl.

Great stuff here to remind folks that football is fun, oh and Josh Gordon is really f'ng good.

Link to short video:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Gordon-Goes-One-on-One-with-Jerry-Rice/32e059f3-9d1b-4d32-9067-b426b4bd32f5

Gordon Goes One-on-One with Jerry RiceHall of Fame Wide Receiver Jerry Rice gets with Josh Gordon after practice to instruct him on how to be an even better player in 2014.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

all kinds of wrong here

 

[Soulfly3]

Jerry Rice: "you big. you fast. you gonna be unstoppable"

 

[Buffaloes]

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

the league suspended Von Miller just last summer

 

[Jercules]

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

RIcky Williams

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

RIcky Williams

aaron hernandez, justin blackmon, bountygate

the new NFL doesn't care who you are

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

the league suspended Von Miller just last summer

Ricky Williams' last 'stud' year was 2003. He retired, was forced to come back for the money, and after one middling season got suspended for a year.

Aaron Hernandez was indicted for murder... come on.

Blackmon isn't a star.

Bountygate? I don't know about you, but I've never watched a Saints game for the brilliant linebacking of Scott Fujita. That was a different thing altogether.

Von Miller? Probably the only name that has made me think. The guy is A) a defensive player, and B) was caught trying to cheat a PED test--they've got to draw a line somewhere.

So I concede, if Josh Gordon goes out and murders someone, and becomes the Scarface of weed, etc., then he may face a league suspension.

To make my point crystal clear: Too many people are discounting the fact that Gordon is a bonefide star, the only one for that particular fanbase, and is maybe the most exciting young player in the league. He is not going to get suspended without doing something a little more serious than puffing a joint, don't be naive people!

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Yeah, when I think of Ricky Williams, the guy I consider most like him is Scarface. That was a pretty accurate illustration.

 

[Jercules]

Yeah, when I think of Ricky Williams, the guy I consider most like him is Scarface. That was a pretty accurate illustration.

The 'scarface' point was not necessarily a reference to Williams in my comment. Is this the best you can do?

 

[Buffaloes]

Von Miller? Probably the only name that has made me think. The guy is A) a defensive player, and B) was caught trying to cheat a PED test--they've got to draw a line somewhere.

no, he was in the system due to recreational drugs (same as Gordon) not PEDs.

There is no indication he has ever been involved with PEDs or tried to cheat a so-called PED test.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Yeah, when I think of Ricky Williams, the guy I consider most like him is Scarface. That was a pretty accurate illustration.

The 'scarface' point was not necessarily a reference to Williams in my comment. Is this the best you can do?

I play to my level of competition.

 

[Concept Coop]

I have no idea what this ... ... expedition is all about but anyone arguing Josh Gordon isn't a top FF WR is insane.

You beat the hell out of that strawman. And I've never seen you and Batman together at the same time.

 

[Jercules]

Von Miller? Probably the only name that has made me think. The guy is A) a defensive player, and B) was caught trying to cheat a PED test--they've got to draw a line somewhere.

no, he was in the system due to recreational drugs (same as Gordon) not PEDs.

There is no indication he has ever been involved with PEDs or tried to cheat a so-called PED test.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9707976/von-miller-denver-broncos-urine-collector-tried-cheat-test

He attempted to cheat an NFL drug test, fair enough?

 

[Buffaloes]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9707976/von-miller-denver-broncos-urine-collector-tried-cheat-test

He attempted to cheat an NFL drug test, fair enough?

so I guess that answers the question that sparked this discussion:

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything?

the answer being it happened just this past offseason.

 

[Soulfly3]

Jerry Rice says he's unstoppable.

So whatever knuckledraggers on here think, means sweet F all to me.

I love you all... but my man Jerry speaketh

 

[Jercules]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9707976/von-miller-denver-broncos-urine-collector-tried-cheat-test

He attempted to cheat an NFL drug test, fair enough?

so I guess that answers the question that sparked this discussion:

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything?

the answer being it happened just this past offseason.

I would argue Von Miller, a defensive player on a star-studded team, did not have the 'star caliber' in 2013 of Josh Gordon today, arguably the best receiver in football. Still though, Miller is the only reasonable 'exception' to the point I made, so fair enough, I agree to disagree.

 

[Buffaloes]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9707976/von-miller-denver-broncos-urine-collector-tried-cheat-test

He attempted to cheat an NFL drug test, fair enough?

so I guess that answers the question that sparked this discussion:

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything?

the answer being it happened just this past offseason.

I would argue Von Miller, a defensive player on a star-studded team, was not a comparable ticket draw in 2013 to Josh Gordon today, arguably the best receiver in football.

meh, Miller is arguably the premiere pass rusher in the league and was coming off a runner-up DPOY. he's a legitimate star and his situation is virtually identical to Gordon's in that each of them are 1 strike away from a 1 year suspension due to multiple failed recreational drug tests. and he was suspended coming off his best year for the same thing Gordon has been suspended for--failing drug test. the point is there is no evidence the league covers for its star players. only evidence to the contrary. I have Gordon in a keeper, but I'm not going to pretend that he's teflon. he's in stage 3 of the league's substance abuse system for the rest of his career--meaning if he so much as misses a drug test, fails one, or attempts to cheat one he's done for the minimum of 1 year. saying that the league protects its star players from suspension with no evidence to back it up isn't changing that imo.

 

[menobrown]

Jerry Rice says he's unstoppable.

So whatever knuckledraggers on here think, means sweet F all to me.

I love you all... but my man Jerry speaketh

Don't think anyone could have given them praise Irvin gave him a few months ago when he called him the best receiver in the NFL his season, said he tought he could have multiple 2,000 yard seasons and went so far as to throw down that he could be the greatest of all time:http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/12/hall_of_famer_michael_irvin_ca.html

To repeat what I said in a post yesterday. If the valid suspension concerns did not exist he would not only be my WR1 overall but it would not really even be that close. I'd take it a step further and say if suspension issues were not a concern I'd probably pick him as the first player overall in a PPR dynasty startup.

 

[Jercules]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9707976/von-miller-denver-broncos-urine-collector-tried-cheat-test

He attempted to cheat an NFL drug test, fair enough?

so I guess that answers the question that sparked this discussion:

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything?

the answer being it happened just this past offseason.

I would argue Von Miller, a defensive player on a star-studded team, was not a comparable ticket draw in 2013 to Josh Gordon today, arguably the best receiver in football.

meh, Miller is probably the premiere pass rusher in the league and was coming off a runner-up DPOY. he's a legitimate star and his situation is virtually identical to Gordon's in that each of them are 1 strike away from a 1 year suspension due to multiple failed recreational drug tests. and he was suspended coming off his best year for the same thing Gordon has been suspended for--failing drug test. the point is there is no evidence the league covers for its star players. only evidence to the contrary. I have Gordon in a keeper, but I'm not going to pretend that he's teflon. he's in stage 3 of the league's substance abuse system for the rest of his career--meaning if he so much as misses a drug test, fails one, or attempts to cheat one he's done for the minimum of 1 year. saying that the league protects its star players with no evidence to back it up isn't changing that imo.

So if Gordon is in a situation identical to Von Miller, why would a failed/cheated drug test net him a one year suspension? It didn't for Miller! (But then again, Miller's pretty gosh darn good, isn't he?

 

[mr roboto]

Vick?

Jercules is trolling. Goodell loves to suspend big players. Raise the shield and the brand.

 

[Buffaloes]

So if Gordon is in a situation identical to Von Miller, why would a failed/cheated drug test net him a one year suspension? It didn't for Miller! (But then again, Miller's pretty gosh darn good, isn't he?

because when Miller failed that test he joined Gordon in stage 3. Miller entered that stage when he failed that test.

 

[Jercules]

Vick?

Jercules is trolling. Goodell loves to suspend big players. Raise the shield and the brand.

Vick? VICK? Are you insane? The guy got caught running a massive dog fighting operation! He got sent to jail! You think that by giving an obvious sociopath like him a suspension, Goodell proved he won't give anybody star treatment?

 

[Soulfly3]

So if Gordon is in a situation identical to Von Miller, why would a failed/cheated drug test net him a one year suspension? It didn't for Miller! (But then again, Miller's pretty gosh darn good, isn't he?

because when Miller failed that test he joined Gordon in stage 3. Miller entered that stage when he failed that test.

Gordon isnt in stage 3

 

[Jercules]

So if Gordon is in a situation identical to Von Miller, why would a failed/cheated drug test net him a one year suspension? It didn't for Miller! (But then again, Miller's pretty gosh darn good, isn't he?

because when Miller failed that test he joined Gordon in stage 3. Miller entered that stage when he failed that test.

You're the one poster I'm indulging because Von Miller is the one decent contrary example I've heard. My point is that star players get special treatment--nothing crazy, and now that Gordon is a bonefide star you can rest assured he'll be taken care of (which isn't absolute of course. I mean, for all we know he runs a dog-fighting ring, or has been busy murdering people, and if any of that stuff comes to light in the press I'm sure Goodell will be the tough guy he always is).

 

[Buffaloes]

So if Gordon is in a situation identical to Von Miller, why would a failed/cheated drug test net him a one year suspension? It didn't for Miller! (But then again, Miller's pretty gosh darn good, isn't he?

because when Miller failed that test he joined Gordon in stage 3. Miller entered that stage when he failed that test.

Gordon isnt in stage 3

interesting. i thought i read that he was, but after doing some cursory digging it looks like it's a bit of an unknown. the best i could find was an Oct '13 PFT post stating he might be in stage 3. i will defer to you as you are a Cleveland fan and likely have better info on Gordon's situation.

anyway, my point is i think we can agree that he's an elite talent, but i think the possibility of a lengthy suspension should be taken into consideration. how much weight ppl want to give to that is up for debate, but it's a real possibility, imo.

 

[mr roboto]

Vick?

Jercules is trolling. Goodell loves to suspend big players. Raise the shield and the brand.

Vick? VICK? Are you insane? The guy got caught running a massive dog fighting operation! He got sent to jail! You think that by giving an obvious sociopath like him a suspension, Goodell proved he won't give anybody star treatment?

I am saying that even the biggest stars, if they disgrace the shield and bring shame upon the league, can and will be suspended by Roger Goodale. I'm actually in favor of most of the suspensions that are passed down, and think that it's good for the NFL.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Jerry Rice says he's unstoppable.

So whatever knuckledraggers on here think, means sweet F all to me.

I love you all... but my man Jerry speaketh

The Browns should hire Jerry Rice as GM.

 

[Jercules]

Vick?

Jercules is trolling. Goodell loves to suspend big players. Raise the shield and the brand.

Vick? VICK? Are you insane? The guy got caught running a massive dog fighting operation! He got sent to jail! You think that by giving an obvious sociopath like him a suspension, Goodell proved he won't give anybody star treatment?

I am saying that even the biggest stars, if they disgrace the shield and bring shame upon the league, can and will be suspended by Roger Goodale. I'm actually in favor of most of the suspensions that are passed down, and think that it's good for the NFL.

So your point is if a guy does something so heinous that he faces certain jail time, and an NFL suspension is the least of his worries, 'Roger Goodale' has the stones to suspend him... to "defend the shield" and all that. Thanks.

 

[mr roboto]

Yes, and all the other players who have ever been suspended without doing something so heinous as to get jail time. Keep fishing.

 

[Jercules]

Yes, and all the other players who have ever been suspended without doing something so heinous as to get jail time. Keep fishing.

Don't come on here and accuse people of trolling when you've got nothing but nonsense to add to the discussion. You're lucky 'Roger Goodale' doesn't run FBG.

 

[mr roboto]

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

Please read you own post. You are moving your own goal posts. You were given examples of star players who had been suspended for something. Blackmon, Gordon himself, Vick, Von Miller, Harrison, Suh, Burress, V Jackson, Roethlisberger. Your claim was that the NFL doesn't suspend star players for anything. #### it, here, read for yourself. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_players_and_coaches_suspended_by_the_NFL

 

[Jercules]

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

Please read you own post. You are moving your own goal posts. You were given examples of star players who had been suspended for something. Blackmon, Gordon himself, Vick, Von Miller, Harrison, Suh, Burress, V Jackson, Roethlisberger. Your claim was that the NFL doesn't suspend star players for anything.#### it, here, read for yourself. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_players_and_coaches_suspended_by_the_NFL

Look, I admire your pluck, but this is ridiculous. Josh Gordon is not going to get suspended for smoking weed because he's too big a star to be sidelined for something so small; that's the star treatment he'll be afforded, that's my point. If he's publicly outed as a dog-fighting mastermind, or a straight-up murderer, or a rapist, then he will face suspension... obviously!

Forgive me if my initial post didn't say that in big neon letters, but I was assuming my audience wasn't comprised of complete morons (or more pertinently, people willing to be deliberately obtuse to try and save a losing argument).

 

[Andrew74]

Since when did Gordon become a "star"? Besides to us FF nerds. I think you're way over inflating the importance of this guy.

 

[KellysHeroes]

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

Please read you own post. You are moving your own goal posts. You were given examples of star players who had been suspended for something. Blackmon, Gordon himself, Vick, Von Miller, Harrison, Suh, Burress, V Jackson, Roethlisberger. Your claim was that the NFL doesn't suspend star players for anything.#### it, here, read for yourself. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_players_and_coaches_suspended_by_the_NFL

Look, I admire your pluck, but this is ridiculous. Josh Gordon is not going to get suspended for smoking weed because he's too big a star to be sidelined for something so small; that's the star treatment he'll be afforded, that's my point. If he's publicly outed as a dog-fighting mastermind, or a straight-up murderer, or a rapist, then he will face suspension... obviously!

Forgive me if my initial post didn't say that in big neon letters, but I was assuming my audience wasn't comprised of complete morons (or more pertinently, people willing to be deliberately obtuse to try and save a losing argument).

Ben was One of the faces of the league and he was suspended while not being charged

 

[Coeur de Lion]

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

Please read you own post. You are moving your own goal posts. You were given examples of star players who had been suspended for something. Blackmon, Gordon himself, Vick, Von Miller, Harrison, Suh, Burress, V Jackson, Roethlisberger. Your claim was that the NFL doesn't suspend star players for anything.#### it, here, read for yourself. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_players_and_coaches_suspended_by_the_NFL

Look, I admire your pluck, but this is ridiculous. Josh Gordon is not going to get suspended for smoking weed because he's too big a star to be sidelined for something so small; that's the star treatment he'll be afforded, that's my point. If he's publicly outed as a dog-fighting mastermind, or a straight-up murderer, or a rapist, then he will face suspension... obviously!

Forgive me if my initial post didn't say that in big neon letters, but I was assuming my audience wasn't comprised of complete morons (or more pertinently, people willing to be deliberately obtuse to try and save a losing argument).

You're evidently completely missing the fact that the league office doesn't have any discretionary power in determining suspensions relating to substance abuse issues. It's not like a domestic violence arrest where it's up to the commissioner. The responses to violations are mandatory and written directly into the CBA. If Gordon fails another test, or has an alcohol or drug related arrest, he WILL receive the appropriate suspension based on which stage of the program he is in.

You should probably refrain from calling other people morons when you are obviously totally ignorant as to league policy on the issues being discussed.

 

[mr roboto]

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Since when did Gordon become a "star"? Besides to us FF nerds. I think you're way over inflating the importance of this guy.

The average fan could not tell you what Gordon even looks like. His "star power" barely extends outside of fantasy football circles.

 

[Jercules]

Since when did Gordon become a "star"? Besides to us FF nerds. I think you're way over inflating the importance of this guy.

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

Please read you own post. You are moving your own goal posts. You were given examples of star players who had been suspended for something. Blackmon, Gordon himself, Vick, Von Miller, Harrison, Suh, Burress, V Jackson, Roethlisberger. Your claim was that the NFL doesn't suspend star players for anything.#### it, here, read for yourself. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_players_and_coaches_suspended_by_the_NFL

Look, I admire your pluck, but this is ridiculous. Josh Gordon is not going to get suspended for smoking weed because he's too big a star to be sidelined for something so small; that's the star treatment he'll be afforded, that's my point. If he's publicly outed as a dog-fighting mastermind, or a straight-up murderer, or a rapist, then he will face suspension... obviously!

Forgive me if my initial post didn't say that in big neon letters, but I was assuming my audience wasn't comprised of complete morons (or more pertinently, people willing to be deliberately obtuse to try and save a losing argument).

Ben was One of the faces of the league and he was suspended while not being charged

When's the last time a player of Gordon's star caliber got suspended by the league for anything? After the season he's had, trust me, the NFL isn't going to shelve him for the world.

Please read you own post. You are moving your own goal posts. You were given examples of star players who had been suspended for something. Blackmon, Gordon himself, Vick, Von Miller, Harrison, Suh, Burress, V Jackson, Roethlisberger. Your claim was that the NFL doesn't suspend star players for anything.#### it, here, read for yourself. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_players_and_coaches_suspended_by_the_NFL

Look, I admire your pluck, but this is ridiculous. Josh Gordon is not going to get suspended for smoking weed because he's too big a star to be sidelined for something so small; that's the star treatment he'll be afforded, that's my point. If he's publicly outed as a dog-fighting mastermind, or a straight-up murderer, or a rapist, then he will face suspension... obviously!

Forgive me if my initial post didn't say that in big neon letters, but I was assuming my audience wasn't comprised of complete morons (or more pertinently, people willing to be deliberately obtuse to try and save a losing argument).

You're evidently completely missing the fact that the league office doesn't have any discretionary power in determining suspensions relating to substance abuse issues. It's not like a domestic violence arrest where it's up to the commissioner. The responses to violations are mandatory and written directly into the CBA. If Gordon fails another test, or has an alcohol or drug related arrest, he WILL receive the appropriate suspension based on which stage of the program he is in.

You should probably refrain from calling other people morons when you are obviously totally ignorant as to league policy on the issues being discussed.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2013/10/29/5041534/josh-gordon-and-the-mythical-season-long-ban

That's the tale of a Browns follower who wanted to know more about Gordon's situation. As it turns out, the NFL can put a player in the substance abuse program and advance them 'stages' despite zero positive tests, and they can hold them at certain stages despite multiple positive tests (the medical director advises the NFL what to do). What stage is Gordon in? We don't even know, because the NFL keeps that information under wraps. Who exactly is the "NFL" here? We don't know that either. What did Gordon test positive for? The article says codeine, but under the current CBA that information can only come from the player, and I don't know about you, but if I failed a drug test and it went public, I'd say it was for something innocuous like codeine or adderall regardless of what it actually was.

Sure there's a gigantic rule book that everyone can pretend is sacrosanct (like the indignant french guy above), but the truth of the matter is the 'NFL' has staggering discretionary power over these matters and no independent body to make sure they follow their own rules. They'll do what they want, and the last thing they want to do is suspend a marketable young star like Josh Gordon.

It's sad I have to mention this last part, but I do: All of that comes with the caveat that Gordon does not out himself as a total sociopath!

If anyone has reason to believe he's a murderer (Hernandez), or a dog-fighter (Vick), or a rapist (Roethlisberger), then pipe up! As long as he's merely a pothead, don't worry!

 

[mr roboto]

The funniest part of your argument Jercules is thinking that a WR on a terrible team with a suspension history is somehow above the brand. Yeah, those are the guys the NFL loves to highlight and protect.

 

[Jercules]

The funniest part of your argument Jercules is thinking that a WR on a terrible team with a suspension history is somehow above the brand. Yeah, those are the guys the NFL loves to highlight and protect.

He's not above the brand, he's good enough that they'll give him extra leash for doing something that isn't even very taboo anymore. So you think the quality of the Browns has something to do with this? You're the one who doesn't even know the commissioner's name, right?

 

[mr roboto]

Yes, keep pointing out a typo I made. That's really important to this discussion.

 

[karmarooster]

This argument has gotten way off track. The average NFL fan has no clue that some guy from Cleveland led the league in receiving yards while only playing 14 games. Unless you're name is "Manning" or "Brady," there's no preferential treatment coming from the 'league office' in case of a DUI, another weed test, weapon's charge, club brawl, whatever. Another strike likely means a multiple game to year long suspension.

A more relevant topic... where do people put Gordon among his WR peers? Where's the cutoff for other WRs you'd take straight up for him?

Personally, I rank him at about dead even with Julio as the 'Blackmon-cloud' hanging over Gordon is roughly equivalent to Julio's injury cloud. Their risks are balanced out by both having supreme top-5 NFL WR talent, but I simply place more value on AJG, Calvin, Dez, and Thomas given that they have roughly as much talent as Julio/Gordon, but come with less risk. All have demonstrated elite ability, and picking among them is based more on flavor rather than talent.

Jeffery is another toss up, but I feel like the argument in his favor over Gordon is based mostly on having less risk; Gordon could be slightly more talented. Continuing, the next tier of Cobb/Brown/Cruz/Marshall/Harvin is probably a half-step down in talent, and each carries their own risk in the form of injury or age or uncertainty. I think Gordon is squarely above this tier even discounting for the potential suspension.

 

[simey]

A more relevant topic... where do people put Gordon among his WR peers? Where's the cutoff for other WRs you'd take straight up for him?
Personally, I rank him at about dead even with Julio as the 'Blackmon-cloud' hanging over Gordon is roughly equivalent to Julio's injury cloud. Their risks are balanced out by both having supreme top-5 NFL WR talent, but I simply place more value on AJG, Calvin, Dez, and Thomas given that they have roughly as much talent as Julio/Gordon, but come with less risk. All have demonstrated elite ability, and picking among them is based more on flavor rather than talent.

Jeffery is another toss up, but I feel like the argument in his favor over Gordon is based mostly on having less risk; Gordon could be slightly more talented. Continuing, the next tier of Cobb/Brown/Cruz/Marshall/Harvin is probably a half-step down in talent, and each carries their own risk in the form of injury or age or uncertainty. I think Gordon is squarely above this tier even discounting for the potential suspension.

In my standard league this past season, I had Gordon, Marshall, and Dez. Marshall was second in points behind Gordon, and Dez was last (something like 5 points or so behind Marshall). Marshall came in 5th overall out of all the Wrs in my standard league. He isn't as young as some of the top WRs, but he has been consistently good since joining the Bears a couple years ago. Even with Jeffrey making a name for himself this past season, and playing with two different QBs, Marshall still got plenty of targets and performed well. Anyway, I notice that he gets left out of the elite tier often on this site, even though he has been a top 5 WR over the last two years. As for Gordon, I'm not worried about him getting suspended again, but I am curious about what his offense will look like this season.

 

[mr roboto]

Calvin

AJ/Dez/DT/Julio

Gordon/Jeffrey

Marshall/Cobb

Cruz/Harvin/Brown

Just off the top of my head.

 

[Jercules]

This argument has gotten way off track. The average NFL fan has no clue that some guy from Cleveland led the league in receiving yards while only playing 14 games. Unless you're name is "Manning" or "Brady," there's no preferential treatment coming from the 'league office' in case of a DUI, another weed test, weapon's charge, club brawl, whatever. Another strike likely means a multiple game to year long suspension.

A more relevant topic... where do people put Gordon among his WR peers? Where's the cutoff for other WRs you'd take straight up for him?

Personally, I rank him at about dead even with Julio as the 'Blackmon-cloud' hanging over Gordon is roughly equivalent to Julio's injury cloud. Their risks are balanced out by both having supreme top-5 NFL WR talent, but I simply place more value on AJG, Calvin, Dez, and Thomas given that they have roughly as much talent as Julio/Gordon, but come with less risk. All have demonstrated elite ability, and picking among them is based more on flavor rather than talent.

Jeffery is another toss up, but I feel like the argument in his favor over Gordon is based mostly on having less risk; Gordon could be slightly more talented. Continuing, the next tier of Cobb/Brown/Cruz/Marshall/Harvin is probably a half-step down in talent, and each carries their own risk in the form of injury or age or uncertainty. I think Gordon is squarely above this tier even discounting for the potential suspension.

Your first paragraph is a typical, naïve, two-seconds-of-thought assessment of things that I no longer have the energy to debunk (please see above).

Gordon was on par with D. Thomas and Megatron last year as the most productive receiver in the league. Arguments about his inflated targets and substance abuse issues are both massively overblown, and he's probably in line for a few more TDs next year as the Cleveland offense can't conceivably get worse. With steadier QBing and a running game, he should be in line for a smaller slice of a much bigger pie. He's definitely undervalued.

 

[Jercules]

Yes, keep pointing out a typo I made. That's really important to this discussion.

See, that's the thing: A typo would've been "Goodall", or "Godell", or something. You called him "Goodale", which is actually a somewhat common last name--maybe you had a brain fart, but I'd appreciate it if you could post the man's name once and for all so I can rest assured I haven't wasted all this time arguing with a total fool.

 

[menobrown]

A more relevant topic... where do people put Gordon among his WR peers? Where's the cutoff for other WRs you'd take straight up for him?

Julio, Thomas, Green and Dez are the only ones I could say for sure I would do it for right now. As I've said a few times if not for suspension concerns the list would be no one.

Everyone has their own criteria for risk. You listed concerns about Julio's injury and for me he is my WR1.

Many people list Calvin as their WR1. His age and need to manage his knee for much of the past few seasons concern me.

As an example of how we might interpret risk differently. Gordon MIGHT get suspended again but we know for sure Calvin will be 29 next season and Gordon is 6 years younger. To me that represents risk for Calvin, risk in that in a 2-3 year window we might see a drop off in production and risk that as a trade asset his age will lower his value. For some people, me included, it already has.

None of these people have a Blackmon cloud hanging over them IMO and Gordon really should not be put in that same suspension risk. Think about the fact that Blackmon was really only able to stay active for a few weeks. Gordon on the other hand as far as we know has been clean for a year.

 

[mr roboto]

Yes, keep pointing out a typo I made. That's really important to this discussion.

See, that's the thing: A typo would've been "Goodall", or "Godell", or something. You called him "Goodale", which is actually a somewhat common last name--maybe you had a brain fart, but I'd appreciate it if you could post the man's name once and for all so I can rest assured I haven't wasted all this time arguing with a total fool.

It was an autocorrect of my iPhone. I don't really care if you believe me though. And I'm not going to type his name correctly for you just because it's funny that it truly bothers you.