Dynasty QBs - Who are the dark horses? (1 Viewer)

[hostile]

I'm just curious to know who the dynasty people are keeping an eye on to come from the bench to become long-term starters.

We all know about guys like Kolb, Leinart, Freeman, and just recently Henne, but I'm looking more towards guys who really aren't on the radar yet, who will have been in the league a year or two, who will become solid starters given the chance, but they are just trapped behind a quality starter or even a starter who's coach refuses to had over the reigns?

Personally, I've got my eye on Nate Davis. Despite the learning disability, everything I have read or seen on this kid says that he has all of the tools, but just needs some time. I'm also looking at Stephen McGee, but I don't see him getting out from behind Romo any time soon. Dennis Dixon is another, but Ben is still very young, and will be the franchise QB for a LONG time.

Who are your dark horse dynasty QBs?

 

[top dog]

Quinn if he get's traded?

 

[thriftyrocker]

Ratliff in Cleveland.

Davis is a good one but as SF keeps winning, Hill will keep starting.

 

[LionsFan78]

Probably not next year, but I have a feeling Troy Smith will be relevant some day

 

[spider321]

Probably not next year, but I have a feeling Troy Smith will be relevant some day

Too small. (and no, he is not the 6' he is listed as)

 

[Sanboy]

Qb-Mike Teel - Seattle

Qb-Nate Davis - SF

Qb-Charlie Whitehurst ( free agent after this year )

 

[FantasyTrader]

Sage Rosenfels.

 

[Tanner9919]

Matt Cassel...quietly getting it all together...once KC gets a stud WR, watchout..!

this team will be the next Cards/Saints with that offense..going thru the growing pains right now..but next year and beyond, lookout!

 

[hostile]

Matt Cassel...quietly getting it all together...once KC gets a stud WR, watchout..!

this team will be the next Cards/Saints with that offense..going thru the growing pains right now..but next year and beyond, lookout!

I thought they had one already in Bowe?Besides, Cassel is a starter. I'm talking about guys who are QB2 or QB3's, who just havent had an opportunity yet... guys who few people are aware of.

 

[Jokers]

Does anybody have hopes for Matt Moore? I know nothing about him, but how much longer will Delhomme stink up the joint before he is toast.

BTW, I drafted N. Davis in both my dynasty leagues that have a taxi squad.

 

[thriftyrocker]

I don't think there are any Chad Henne's right now because the only QB taken in the 2nd or 3rd round last year was Pat White. Also there could be 5 or 6 QBs taken early next year. A lot of the teams with QB issues will draft a QB next year.

 

[hostile]

I don't think there are any Chad Henne's right now because the only QB taken in the 2nd or 3rd round last year was Pat White. Also there could be 5 or 6 QBs taken early next year. A lot of the teams with QB issues will draft a QB next year.

... not even the aforementioned Ratliff?

 

[eric rymer]

Does anybody have hopes for Matt Moore? I know nothing about him, but how much longer will Delhomme stink up the joint before he is toast.BTW, I drafted N. Davis in both my dynasty leagues that have a taxi squad.

This is the guy I was going to talk about. Every time he gets on the field he seems to have great presence. seems to have a good enough arm. I think if he gets a real shot in Caolina he will be a solid QB. He just has that moxy when he's out there and you just know he's going to do good things. Sorry I don't have any outlandish numbers to back it up, but it's just what I see. Of course none of this matters anyway since Fox will probably stick with Delhomme until they both get run out of town. Edited for spelling and clarification

 

[thriftyrocker]

I don't think there are any Chad Henne's right now because the only QB taken in the 2nd or 3rd round last year was Pat White. Also there could be 5 or 6 QBs taken early next year. A lot of the teams with QB issues will draft a QB next year.

... not even the aforementioned Ratliff?

Haha, not to contradict my own post. I think Ratliff has a chance. I think his future depends on Mangini. If Mangini isn't fired, I fully believe Ratliff will start next year. And probably late this year. I think he is better than D.Anderson, and I think the team is bailing on Quinn. I don't think he is good as Henne (if that's the measuring stick), but obviously he's someone the current coaching staff believes in.I think Nate Davis has a chance. SF doesn't believe in Hill 100%, but if he goes 10-6 this year and wins the NFCWest, you don't argue with results. I think the most likely scenario is he is Josh Johnson next year. A guy with potential who gets an opportunity to show it, but ultimately will be pushed aside.I am rostering both Davis and Ratliff in my deepest league and might add them in other leagues later in the year.Guys like McGee, Brandstater, Teel, Null, Chase Daniel shouldn't be rostered unless it's a 2QB league, but all could end up getting a chance.Probably Colt Brennen should be mentioned too. In 2010 Campbell is out, Zorn is out, and Collins (Campbell's backup) is old. There is a definite opportunity next year, but Washington will either draft or sign someone. Snyder is not afraid to spend money. If you're looking for a week 16 add, I'd put him above a lot of the guys listed, but not Ratliff or Davis.

 

[Casting Couch]

Anyone owning Tom Brady, may want to stash Brian Hoyer in deep dynasty leagues.

 

[hostile]

I think Ratliff has a chance. I think his future depends on Mangini. If Mangini isn't fired, I fully believe Ratliff will start next year. And probably late this year. I think he is better than D.Anderson, and I think the team is bailing on Quinn. I don't think he is good as Henne (if that's the measuring stick), but obviously he's someone the current coaching staff believes in.

I find it interesting they have seemingly given up on Quinn. I recall reading last week that the Browns' brass have "lost patience" with him completely - whatever that means.

I think Nate Davis has a chance. SF doesn't believe in Hill 100%, but if he goes 10-6 this year and wins the NFCWest, you don't argue with results. I think the most likely scenario is he is Josh Johnson next year. A guy with potential who gets an opportunity to show it, but ultimately will be pushed aside.

I have been high on Davis for a while, but I think SF's success is due more to their defence improving rather than Hill outright winning games for them. This is the situation I am watching the closest.

I am rostering both Davis and Ratliff in my deepest league and might add them in other leagues later in the year.

I wish I had room to do the same.

Guys like McGee, Brandstater, Teel, Null, Chase Daniel shouldn't be rostered unless it's a 2QB league, but all could end up getting a chance.

I was specifically asking b/c this regarding a start 2QB league, but none of these guys are rostered. There's one team carrying guys like Garcia, Penny, and Booty, but no one in this list here.

Probably Colt Brennen should be mentioned too. In 2010 Campbell is out, Zorn is out, and Collins (Campbell's backup) is old. There is a definite opportunity next year, but Washington will either draft or sign someone. Snyder is not afraid to spend money. If you're looking for a week 16 add, I'd put him above a lot of the guys listed, but not Ratliff or Davis.

I was really keeping an eye on this heading into preseason, as a lot of dynasty people were talking him up. However, it seems like the issue is that (aside from him being out for the year w/ an injury) is he's arrogant, has apparently alienated a lot of teammates, and overall confidence in him is low. When Washington gets a new coaching staff though, who knows?I think Eric's take on Matt Moore just above here is unfortunately an accurate one.

 

[Onions]

Article on The Continuing Development of Nate Davis (SF - QB)

 

[MAC_32]

I think Nate Davis has a much better chance than any of them.

That said, if Romo has one of his typical December's, Stephen McGee deserves some consideration. Although I think if he's given a shot in Dallas it'd more likely be 2011.

 

[Andy Herron]

Does anybody have hopes for Matt Moore? I know nothing about him, but how much longer will Delhomme stink up the joint before he is toast.

This is the guy I was going to talk about. Every time he gets on the field he seems to have great presence. seems to have a good enough arm. I think if he gets a real shot in Caolina he will be a solid QB. He just has that moxy when he's out there and you just know he's going to do good things. Sorry I don't have any outlandish numbers to back it up, but it's just what I see. Of course none of this matters anyway since Fox will probably stick with Delhomme until they both get run out of town.

Matt Moore is one I will be watching closely as well. When Dallas cut him 2 years ago (final cuts) they had every wish he would slide thru waivers and they could sign him to their practice squad. Obviously it didn't work out. I know the organization was disappointed to say the least. I, myself, was crushed.

 

[Andy Herron]

I think Nate Davis has a much better chance than any of them.That said, if Romo has one of his typical December's, Stephen McGee deserves some consideration. Although I think if he's given a shot in Dallas it'd more likely be 2011.

McGee is a long way away from being ready. Not to say he won't be ready someday, but he needs a lot of work in preparation for the NFL.As a Cowboys fan, I hold every hope he can develop, but it's just too early to tell. He'll first have to prove capable of locking down the QB2 spot and then work from there.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

well we may see Null in action. either from Boller's injury or absolute ineffectiveness this week

 

[FUBAR]

My top two have already been mentioned and are fairly obvious - Moore and Davis.

Maybe Travaris Jackson.

 

[SSOG]

I'm not a big fan of Moore's. He hasn't looked good on the field, I haven't read much positive buzz about him, he has no pedigree whatsoever, and he can't manage to wrest the job from Jake Delhomme. There are a handful of off-the-radar guys I'd take before him. Which ones?

#1- Michael Vick. He might be off the radar, he might not be. In my mind, no other #2 QB in the league right now is as likely to be a starter next year as Vick (who technically isn't even a #2, he's a #3). And like I always used to say about Vick... a 2800 yard passer/800 yard runner is the same as a 4400 yard passer. Even if he's a shadow of his former self, he's head and shoulders above the rest of the longshots on my list.

#2- Brian Brohm. he's 24, he has a second round pedigree, and the only obstacle between him and a starting job right now is... Ryan Fitzpatrick. Sure, he's looked like horse poo in his first two preseasons... but it's preseason, and almost all young QBs look like horse poo. Not to repeat myself, but he's 24, he's a former 2nd rounder, and there are no NFL-caliber QBs on the depth chart ahead of him.

#3- Sage Rosenfels. He's a little long in the tooth (31), but we all know that Brett only has one or two more unretirement parties left in him, and we also all know that Tarvaris Jackson is not the answer. Rosenfels has looked competent in his NFL action, and he'll soon be lobbing footballs to Percy Harvin, Sidney Rice, and Visanthe Shiancoe (in between handoffs to Adrian Peterson). With Rosenfels there's pretty much no chance that you find the next Tony Romo, Tom Brady, or Marc Bulger... but, on the other hand, there's always a chance that you do stumble upon the next Jon Kitna or Damon Huard. Or Brad Johnson. Or Chad Pennington. Heck, it's an extreme long-shot, but there's even a chance of landing the next Trent Green or Rich Gannon. Just because a QB is a journeyman in his 30s doesn't mean he can't have any value if he's the best QB on the roster.

#4- Tyler Thigpen. Thigpen looked good in Kansas City last year. Like, really good. Not great, but definitely solidly good (as good as Alex Smith looks running the spread in SF this year). Sure, he's stuck behind Henne... but stuff happens. I'd rather roll the dice on a no-name who's already looked very good at the NFL level.

#5- Nate Davis. He's been discussed already. He's looking like more of a longshot now that San Fran is switching to the spread, but on the other hand... would anyone really be surprised if Alex Smith wasn't the answer? He could just be the next Kyle Boller, showing enough flashes at the end of the season for management to keep on holding out hope.

#6- Brett Ratliff. Read the paragraph on Brian Brohm, then take out all mentions of his draft pedigree, and you've got Brett Ratliff.

#7- Jamarcus Russell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. The 2009 Oakland Raiders at this point could really just rename their season to Jamarcus Russell and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad season. He's looked like stinky stinky dog poo all season long. Still, who would you rather bet on- a guy like Jamarcus Russell who plays like stinky stinky dog poo but who is 24 and a former #1 overall draft pick, or a guy like Matt Moore who can't manage to beat out a QB who plays like stinky stinky dog poo and who is a former undrafted free agent, to boot?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Second the TJax call if Favre re-re-re-retires - Rice and Harvin could a special combo.

Thigpen should get another shot at some point in his career, game was raw but effective, league caught up with him late last year

Moore looked good at the end of 07, should see him pass a lot more this weekend than we did last week vs TB. Deep ball to Smith looked real nice.

What about Gradkowski and Fitzpatrick - they may surprise and start week 1 in 2010

 

[lyon812]

I feel about Tarvaris Jackson the same way SSOG feels about Thigpen. I think Jackson showed signs of real progress, and I thought he ended 2008 well. They drafted him in 2006 knowing that he was a project QB--in fact, Childress deliberately targeted him as a developmental/raw talent that he could forge into the QB of the future. Childress kept talking up how he'd improved through 2007 and in 2008 they were pretty excited about him...then Jackson hurts his knee, misses half the preseason, struggles when he gets back for two games, but looks very solid in the final four games of the year, including nice performances against respectable D's in ATL and NYG.

I think if it had come down to a Rosenfels-Jackson competition, that Jackson had a good chance to emerge as the starter in 2009 and figured ok, if he doesn't continue to make strides we have a reasonable Plan B. When they realized they could have Favre, that plan changed. It would have been interesting to see if they'd have given Rosenfels a contract if they'd known about Favre earlier.

Regardless, Jackson is a raw talent that after 20 starts showed signs of putting things together. He's reportedly not a headcase, is a hard worker, has definitely improved since he came into the league, and has obvious talent. I think when Favre goes, Jackson would be in excellent position to succeed--and heck, he might have learned something from backing Favre up. Minnesota has a situation that's ripe for QB success. His time may have been postponed, but I think he could be a solid starter.

 

[Matt Waldman]

Probably not next year, but I have a feeling Troy Smith will be relevant some day

I agree. He has a great high release point on the football, moves well, and has a hell of an arm. I think he's a guy that gets a shot to start some day, somewhere.

 

[Matt Waldman]

Second the TJax call if Favre re-re-re-retires - Rice and Harvin could a special combo.Thigpen should get another shot at some point in his career, game was raw but effective, league caught up with him late last yearMoore looked good at the end of 07, should see him pass a lot more this weekend than we did last week vs TB. Deep ball to Smith looked real nice.What about Gradkowski and Fitzpatrick - they may surprise and start week 1 in 2010

I agree with Moore and Gradkowski. Moore has the physical skills and moves reasonably well in the pocket. Good instincts that just need more development and work. Gradkowski is bent on working his way into relevancy and I think he'll do it.

 

[Matt Waldman]

Most know I like Nate Davis...

Brian Brohm-Trent Edwards: just depends on who takes over in Buffalo and where one of these end up.

Matt Flynn: He flashed some real skills at LSU and nearly took the job from Russell early in his career. He's raw, but clearly not so raw that he couldn't beat out the much higher rated Brohm. Flynn is a gamer with the physical skills to be a real player. GB has a history of developing QBs who get shots elsewhere even though the coaching staff has changed over the years.

 

[D'OHtis]

#7- Jamarcus Russell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. The 2009 Oakland Raiders at this point could really just rename their season to Jamarcus Russell and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad season. He's looked like stinky stinky dog poo all season long. Still, who would you rather bet on- a guy like Jamarcus Russell who plays like stinky stinky dog poo but who is 24 and a former #1 overall draft pick, or a guy like Matt Moore who can't manage to beat out a QB who plays like stinky stinky dog poo and who is a former undrafted free agent, to boot?

There are several UFL QB's I'd take over Russell. Several that'll appreciate being an NFL QB [even as a backup]He's not going to get it. He has no desire to get it. He got paid & he's not worth the trouble of keeping around as a backup QB. If Al Davis weren't running things, he'd be cut this offseason. He'll probably get one shot after the Raiders as a backup ....and I don't expect that experiment to last long.

I realize you have him #7 on your dark horse list. I would not put him on the Top 100 QB's prospects. To answer your question, I'd take more undrafted stinky poo guy. I'd bank on Cade McNown, Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf making a successful comeback before rostering Russell.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Buffalo is a mess right now. Maybe Brian Brohm gets a shot? The Rams and Raiders are in disarray too, but I have no idea which QBs will get playing time.

If Matt Moore underwhelms in Carolina, I can see them cleaning house with the backups, getting rid of Moore, Feeley and McCown and bringing in a couple new guys to backup Delhomme. (Then when Delhomme starts sucking midway through 2010 we'll see one of the new guys take over).

Kevin Kolb will start a couple games next year, I would bet.

Jason Campbell is on the verge of being labeled "bust", and Todd Collins is a career clipboard holder. Colt Brennan maybe?

 

[SSOG]

#7- Jamarcus Russell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. The 2009 Oakland Raiders at this point could really just rename their season to Jamarcus Russell and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad season. He's looked like stinky stinky dog poo all season long. Still, who would you rather bet on- a guy like Jamarcus Russell who plays like stinky stinky dog poo but who is 24 and a former #1 overall draft pick, or a guy like Matt Moore who can't manage to beat out a QB who plays like stinky stinky dog poo and who is a former undrafted free agent, to boot?

There are several UFL QB's I'd take over Russell. Several that'll appreciate being an NFL QB [even as a backup]He's not going to get it. He has no desire to get it. He got paid & he's not worth the trouble of keeping around as a backup QB. If Al Davis weren't running things, he'd be cut this offseason. He'll probably get one shot after the Raiders as a backup ....and I don't expect that experiment to last long.

I realize you have him #7 on your dark horse list. I would not put him on the Top 100 QB's prospects. To answer your question, I'd take more undrafted stinky poo guy. I'd bank on Cade McNown, Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf making a successful comeback before rostering Russell.

I've seen him play, and I can fully understand that sentiment. He really is the worst QB I have seen play since Ryan Leaf. Some guys like Elie Manning are consistently overthrowing. Some guys like Donovan McNabb are consistently underthrowing. JaMarcus is an equal-opportunity screwup- he'll overthrow, he'll underthrow, he'll throw ahead of his target, he'll throw behind his target. He's got no pocket presence. He really looks like complete unsalvageable garbage out there.With that said... as terrible as he has looked, it's not like there's never been a #1 overall draft pick who looked irredeemably bad during his first few seasons yet later went on to become a Hall of Famer. Or even just a rosterable dynasty asset. While odds are phenomenal that Russell is the next Ryan Leaf or Tim Couch, I'd still say he has a better chance of becoming an actual fantasy relevant player than, say, a Tim Brandstater or Keith Null or Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

#7- Jamarcus Russell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. The 2009 Oakland Raiders at this point could really just rename their season to Jamarcus Russell and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad season. He's looked like stinky stinky dog poo all season long. Still, who would you rather bet on- a guy like Jamarcus Russell who plays like stinky stinky dog poo but who is 24 and a former #1 overall draft pick, or a guy like Matt Moore who can't manage to beat out a QB who plays like stinky stinky dog poo and who is a former undrafted free agent, to boot?

How many quarterbacks in the modern era have had decent careers after starting off as badly as Russell has?

 

[perry147]

Second the TJax call if Favre re-re-re-retires - Rice and Harvin could a special combo.Thigpen should get another shot at some point in his career, game was raw but effective, league caught up with him late last yearMoore looked good at the end of 07, should see him pass a lot more this weekend than we did last week vs TB. Deep ball to Smith looked real nice.What about Gradkowski and Fitzpatrick - they may surprise and start week 1 in 2010

I agree with Moore and Gradkowski. Moore has the physical skills and moves reasonably well in the pocket. Good instincts that just need more development and work. Gradkowski is bent on working his way into relevancy and I think he'll do it.

The raiders with Gradkowski are a good team, I think even Al Davis can see that. The question becomes can Al Davis shallow it and cut ties with JR.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

With that said... as terrible as he has looked, it's not like there's never been a #1 overall draft pick who looked irredeemably bad during his first few seasons yet later went on to become a Hall of Famer. Or even just a rosterable dynasty asset.

First, NONE of those guys were as bad as Russell is.Bradshaw was certainly worse his rookie year, but he showed improvements the next 2 seasons (which Russell hasn't done). Plus, it was simply a different era. Bradshaw threw 1.6 INTs per game and he wasn't even in the top-5 in the NFL! He was a top-10 QB by his second season.

Aikman also showed marked improvements from his rookie year to season 2 -- and made the Pro Bowl in his 3rd year!

Elway went 12-2 in his 2nd season and narrowly missed making the Pro Bowl. There was certainly no talk of Elway being a bust like you've seen with Russell.

And Smith? Smith had a solid 2nd season before suffering 2 consecutive season-ending injuries. Now that he's fully healthy, he's back on track. Russell doesn't have that kind of excuse to lean on.

Show me a guy who sucked for his first 3 years, failed to complete 55% of his passes, and threw 20% more interceptions than touchdowns -- who went on to have a decent career in the NFL.

 

[SSOG]

With that said... as terrible as he has looked, it's not like there's never been a #1 overall draft pick who looked irredeemably bad during his first few seasons yet later went on to become a Hall of Famer. Or even just a rosterable dynasty asset.

First, NONE of those guys were as bad as Russell is.Bradshaw was certainly worse his rookie year, but he showed improvements the next 2 seasons (which Russell hasn't done). Plus, it was simply a different era. Bradshaw threw 1.6 INTs per game and he wasn't even in the top-5 in the NFL! He was a top-10 QB by his second season.

Aikman also showed marked improvements from his rookie year to season 2 -- and made the Pro Bowl in his 3rd year!

Elway went 12-2 in his 2nd season and narrowly missed making the Pro Bowl. There was certainly no talk of Elway being a bust like you've seen with Russell.

And Smith? Smith had a solid 2nd season before suffering 2 consecutive season-ending injuries. Now that he's fully healthy, he's back on track. Russell doesn't have that kind of excuse to lean on.

Show me a guy who sucked for his first 3 years, failed to complete 55% of his passes, and threw 20% more interceptions than touchdowns -- who went on to have a decent career in the NFL.

First off, most of this post is revisionist history. We say that Bradshaw showed improvements his next two seasons because we have the benefit of hindsight and we know he turned into a decent pro. We say that Smith struggled because of consecutive season-ending injuries, but that's because we have the benefit of hindsight and know now that he's back on track (prior to the season, he got beat out by Shaun Hill and was completely written off by the fantasy community- he was on the waiver wire in my dynasty league). If we one day give Jamarcus Russell that same benefit of hindsight, we might be saying things like "His 6.6 ypa and 13:8 TD:INT ratio as a sophomore was a clear step forward, and his 2.2% int rate that year was very good". The simple fact of the matter is that Russell had a better QB rating as a second-year player than Elway, Aikman, Smith, or Bradshaw. He also averaged more yards per attempt than any of them but Elway, and outside of Elway (who came very close with 15 INTs), all of them threw at least TWICE AS MANY Interceptions as Russell's 8.As for your challenge... Elway completed 53% of his passes and had 52 INTs to 47 TDs after 3 seasons. Alex Smith completed 54% and had 31 INTs to 19 TDs. Bradshaw completed 48% and had 58 INTs to 31 TDs. I've already provided you with three guys who met your criteria (well, okay, Elway fell a bit short on the TD:INT criteria).

I'm not saying that I think Jamarcus is a hidden gem. I had him #7 on my list, behind Brian Brohm, Sage Rosenfels, and Tyler Thigpen! I'm just saying that it's not nearly as impossible for him to become a serviceable pro as everyone seems to imply that it is. It's a longshot, but it's not outside of the realm of possibility like the people who are saying they'd rather have a CFL QB are implying.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

The simple fact of the matter is that Russell had a better QB rating as a second-year player than Elway, Aikman, Smith, or Bradshaw.

Sure, if you want to cherry pick ONE out of THREE seasons. But how did Russell do in his THIRD season in comparison to Elway or Aikman? :crickets:Elway, Aikman, Smith, and Bradshaw all showed signs of progress into their 3rd season as a starter. Russell has not.

Besides, Elway and Bradshaw had solid passer ratings in comparison to their peers (both ranked about 16th among starting QBs). Passer rating didn't mean as much in the '70s and early '80s. Russell had the 26th-highest passer rating in his best season.

No player in the history of the NFL has made a comeback from the levels of suckitude that Russell has shown in his ~2 seasons as a starting quarterback.

 

[candymanvandyfan]

The simple fact of the matter is that Russell had a better QB rating as a second-year player than Elway, Aikman, Smith, or Bradshaw.

Sure, if you want to cherry pick ONE out of THREE seasons. But how did Russell do in his THIRD season in comparison to Elway or Aikman? :crickets:Elway, Aikman, Smith, and Bradshaw all showed signs of progress into their 3rd season as a starter. Russell has not.

Besides, Elway and Bradshaw had solid passer ratings in comparison to their peers (both ranked about 16th among starting QBs). Passer rating didn't mean as much in the '70s and early '80s. Russell had the 26th-highest passer rating in his best season.

No player in the history of the NFL has made a comeback from the levels of suckitude that Russell has shown in his ~2 seasons as a starting quarterback.

The Cowboys of Troy Aikman's years were a running team. Troy Aikman handed off better than anybody. He'd hand the ball to Emmitt Smith, and I'd say, "Great play, Troy." Over his entire career, Troy Aikman only had one season when his passing attempts were over 500 for his career. (Put in perspective, Marino had 11 such seasons and Brett Favre had 15 such seasons.) For the majority of his career, Aikman was protected and had season passing attempts in the 300s and 400s. He was the beneficiary of unbelievable supporting casts, a dominating line, and the most productive running back to ever play. Russell has none of that. To be fair, Russell also lacks many of the football skills and abilities that Aikman had, which leaves him a touch shorthanded.Through his first three seasons, though, Aikman had 31 touchdowns and 48 interceptions, and had thrown for 7082 yards. Aikman was protected with low attempts, just as Russell is, just as Mark Sanchez is this year, so that they can learn.

Jamarcus Russell is not Troy Aikman and will never be, but a lot of you would have missed on some of the great legends of the game by giving up on them while they were learning on the job. Also, playing for the Raiders and throwing to newbie receivers is not exactly a perfect opportunity to shine.

 

[DesmondBishop]

The simple fact of the matter is that Russell had a better QB rating as a second-year player than Elway, Aikman, Smith, or Bradshaw.

Sure, if you want to cherry pick ONE out of THREE seasons. But how did Russell do in his THIRD season in comparison to Elway or Aikman? :crickets:Elway, Aikman, Smith, and Bradshaw all showed signs of progress into their 3rd season as a starter. Russell has not.

Besides, Elway and Bradshaw had solid passer ratings in comparison to their peers (both ranked about 16th among starting QBs). Passer rating didn't mean as much in the '70s and early '80s. Russell had the 26th-highest passer rating in his best season.

No player in the history of the NFL has made a comeback from the levels of suckitude that Russell has shown in his ~2 seasons as a starting quarterback.

I don't think this was a "i'm right your wrong" thread, I think this was a "who is YOUR dark horses" thread. Why are you trying to grill the guy on his opinion? At least he puts it out there and backs it up with some proof that guys can turn around. I kind of agree that Russell is one of the worst ever and I think he does not even try to get better and that is why he won't. But to say after (2) playing seasons it's impossible is just stupid. Maybe he just needs a different team or QB coach or system that doesn't require him to hold the ball so long, who knows. I think he is a long shot to ever be good, but it's just lame to come in here and be a tool on other people opinions.

 

[SSOG]

The simple fact of the matter is that Russell had a better QB rating as a second-year player than Elway, Aikman, Smith, or Bradshaw.

Sure, if you want to cherry pick ONE out of THREE seasons. But how did Russell do in his THIRD season in comparison to Elway or Aikman? :crickets:Elway, Aikman, Smith, and Bradshaw all showed signs of progress into their 3rd season as a starter. Russell has not.

Besides, Elway and Bradshaw had solid passer ratings in comparison to their peers (both ranked about 16th among starting QBs). Passer rating didn't mean as much in the '70s and early '80s. Russell had the 26th-highest passer rating in his best season.

No player in the history of the NFL has made a comeback from the levels of suckitude that Russell has shown in his ~2 seasons as a starting quarterback.

Sure, if you want to cherry pick TWO out of the FOUR quarterbacks. How did Alex Smith and Terry Bradshaw do in their THIRD season in comparison to Jamarcus Russell. :crickets:No matter how you slice it, no matter what criteria you want to use (first season, second season, third season, first two seasons, first three seasons, QB rating, TD:INT ratio, ypa), Jamarcus Russell will never come out at the very bottom of any list of those 5 QBs. You want to play the era card, then I'm just going to play the Alex Smith card. A year ago, Alex Smith looked every bit as bad as Jamarcus. A year ago, Alex Smith was on the street in most dynasty leagues. A year ago, everyone thought that Alex Smith was a lost cause. Heck, a year ago, they felt the same way about Vince Young. Now both players are rosterable talents, at the very least.

It's very easy to say after the fact that "we've seen signs" that those guys were going to turn it around. The only reason we "see signs" is because those guys actually turned it around. If Jamarcus Russell turns it around, I'm sure 10 years from now when someone compares a player to him someone will come in and say "the difference is that we saw signs that Jamarcus was turning it around!".

Do I think it's likely that Jamarcus turns it around? If I did, I wouldn't be listing him seventh behind Brian Freaking Brohm (who has looked every bit as bad as Jamarcus, if not worse). To completely discount the possibility, on the other hand, is ridiculous. I firmly believe that there's a MUCH better chance that Jamarcus Russell becomes a solid pro than there is that Tim Brandstater does.

 

[D'OHtis]

I've seen him play, and I can fully understand that sentiment. He really is the worst QB I have seen play since Ryan Leaf. Some guys like Elie Manning are consistently overthrowing. Some guys like Donovan McNabb are consistently underthrowing. JaMarcus is an equal-opportunity screwup- he'll overthrow, he'll underthrow, he'll throw ahead of his target, he'll throw behind his target. He's got no pocket presence. He really looks like complete unsalvageable garbage out there.

With that said... as terrible as he has looked, it's not like there's never been a #1 overall draft pick who looked irredeemably bad during his first few seasons yet later went on to become a Hall of Famer. Or even just a rosterable dynasty asset. While odds are phenomenal that Russell is the next Ryan Leaf or Tim Couch, I'd still say he has a better chance of becoming an actual fantasy relevant player than, say, a Tim Brandstater or Keith Null or Ryan Fitzpatrick.

I'd take my shot at Brandstater/Null/Fitzpatrick being fantasy relevant. We're talking deeper than deep so difference of opinion means little here. Bringing up those names you did, I very well imagine Bruce Gradkowski was right amongst those names going into this year. Fat, lazy, blaming teammates, an indifferent attitude and dumb as a box of rocks isn't a recipe for a long NFL career. Who wants that leading their franchise? [Edit: Who wants that on their franchise period!]

A list can be created of QB's that Russell did more than in his first 2-3 years in the league. They had something Russell does not -- a work ethic, desire to get better & a brain.

I will never say one positive thing about Jamarcus Russell as I don't think there's anything positive to say about him as an NFL player.

 

[FUBAR]

My top two have already been mentioned and are fairly obvious - Moore and Davis.Maybe Travaris Jackson.

Aside from those who mentioned Vick, we did pretty badly here. But, Travaris has looked okay this year. Any thoughts going forward on him?

 

[thriftyrocker]

My top two have already been mentioned and are fairly obvious - Moore and Davis.Maybe Travaris Jackson.

Aside from those who mentioned Vick, we did pretty badly here. But, Travaris has looked okay this year. Any thoughts going forward on him?

Bloom repped Fitzpatrick. Other than Vick that's the only guy with true value.Tarvaris still stinks.

 

[Sabertooth]

I like both Josh Johnson and Matt Flynn to get shots to start next season.

 

[Instinctive]

Does SSOG being so on about Russell excuse the swing and miss on Fitzpatrick?

I still like Tyler Thigpen as far as rostering backup QBs go, along with Matt Flynn (like everybody and their mother), Josh Johnson, obviously Tim Tebow as well.

Some lesser guys I think are worth a chance include Brady Quinn, Matt Leinart, Vince Young - weren't they al drafted together, or was Quinn a different year? I just know that they've all got the pedigree, VY in Philly is nice, Leinart could get handed the reins to the HOU offense and Andre Johnson, and Quinn supposedly looked really good in camp.

 

[hostile]

TJax is still horrible.

Ya, I guess we did do pretty badly. Oh well.

As for Flynn, I have him rostered where it makes sense (one 2QB league, and one league where I own Rodgers). He's only played one game really of note, but I think he could be a Matt Schaub v2.0.

I thought Josh Johnson might be pulled to San Fran by Harbaugh this offseason, but no dice.

 

[FUBAR]

Does SSOG being so on about Russell excuse the swing and miss on Fitzpatrick?I still like Tyler Thigpen as far as rostering backup QBs go, along with Matt Flynn (like everybody and their mother), Josh Johnson, obviously Tim Tebow as well.Some lesser guys I think are worth a chance include Brady Quinn, Matt Leinart, Vince Young - weren't they al drafted together, or was Quinn a different year? I just know that they've all got the pedigree, VY in Philly is nice, Leinart could get handed the reins to the HOU offense and Andre Johnson, and Quinn supposedly looked really good in camp.

Why would leinatt he handed the reins in Houston? Schaub isn't old yet.

 

[domvin]

I'd add Kafka to the mix here.

As far as Texans and Schaub, I'd add TJ or Tyler Yates. He played at North Carolina.....

 

[Captain Hook]

was just going to add that I presume that Flynn and Kafka are both already rostered - if NOT they should be = highest potential backups in the league right now

 

[domvin]

was just going to add that I presume that Flynn and Kafka are both already rostered - if NOT they should be = highest potential backups in the league right now

I guess it depends on roster/league size.... I have Kafka in both my 14 and 16 team league, 25 and 22 man rosters.12 Teams, space is limited somewhat.

 

[dirk diggler]

I would add Brian Hoyer to this list. He is an RFA next year and the Pats like to flip their QBs for draft picks. They have Mallett to develop now as well.