Dynasty Rankings (6 Viewers)

[editor47]

I'm curious on the dynasty ppr values of a few players. Westy/Mccoy. As a PACKAGE what is their value. I could trade Forte for them straight up (I get a few picks).What do you feel the PACKAGE of westy/mccoy is worth? Do you think it is worth a top back like Forte or do you think it is worth less because they might split.

i would take that deal in a nanosecond.

 

[jburns]

I'm curious on the dynasty ppr values of a few players. Westy/Mccoy. As a PACKAGE what is their value. I could trade Forte for them straight up (I get a few picks).What do you feel the PACKAGE of westy/mccoy is worth? Do you think it is worth a top back like Forte or do you think it is worth less because they might split.

i would take that deal in a nanosecond.

dynasty owner of westy/mccoy here. really? so you think mccoys long term upside is greater than or equal to forte?

 

[kremenull]

As a Slaton owner, you're not alarmed? Even if Slaton's underperformance is wholly and absolutely the result of a terrible offensive line... isn't he going to be straddled with this same line for a while? And if Slaton's performance is a result of the line, why is his coach giving more work to his backups (who, it must be noted, still play behind the same line)? Is Houston's offensive line really that much worse than it was last year? And is the offensive line the reason Slaton's on pace for 16 fumbles this season?Slightly different question. You've seen Slaton this year. Do you believe he's lost any explosiveness? What result has his additional weight had on his playstyle and effectiveness?

Well, alarmed equates to panic, IMO. And no, I'm not at that stage nor am I ready to celebrate his production to-date and the way he is looking compared to last season. However, I am willing to allow time for some things to get resolved. Such as Slaton finding the premium playing weight for him. I recall Gore attempting to play heavier a couple of seasons ago and not faring well in the explosiveness dept., either. Often, young RBs have to experiment with things like this to get a feel for their ideal weight they need to perform at. Also, the line is playing much worse than last year, and they need several upgrades to be added and I believe this will, at least should, be addressed in the next offseason.So in the end I am trying to practice patience here because I do believe in his talent in the long run.

 

[corpcow]

I'm curious on the dynasty ppr values of a few players. Westy/Mccoy. As a PACKAGE what is their value. I could trade Forte for them straight up (I get a few picks).What do you feel the PACKAGE of westy/mccoy is worth? Do you think it is worth a top back like Forte or do you think it is worth less because they might split.

.... you're assuming I/we think Forte is a top back I'd make the trade... I think McCoy has a very bright future, and as long as you have the roster space/cap space (if it's a cap space kind of league), I would strongly consider that.

 

[Biabreakable]

Interesting.

McCoy > Forte.

hmmm doubtful. Better team yes. Better player no.

 

[corpcow]

Interesting.McCoy > Forte.hmmm doubtful. Better team yes. Better player no.

I'm pretty sure you were involved in some respect in the Forte thread, but to summarize what myself, EBF and others have covered ad naseum so far: I/we don't think Forte is an extraordinary player, only that he had extraordinary opportunity last year (particularly in PPR with Orton aka Sgt Swing Pass aka Cpt Check Down). Forte is an average/above average back, but it is unlikely he will ever have the perfect storm of opportunity again like last year. Most rookies you sort of extrapolate an increase based on their improvement, but I personally think we've seen his peak. It's not about McCoy being greater than Forte, because from a fantasy perspective Forte still has more opportunity at this point. But, then, that wasn't the trade being discussed. Westbrook is, for as long as he stays healthy, capable of top 5 numbers.... and for me, I think McCoy has at least if not more upside and is more likely to be in a starting role in 3 yrs time.

 

[gorf]

I'm curious on the dynasty ppr values of a few players. Westy/Mccoy. As a PACKAGE what is their value. I could trade Forte for them straight up (I get a few picks).What do you feel the PACKAGE of westy/mccoy is worth? Do you think it is worth a top back like Forte or do you think it is worth less because they might split.

if i had westbrook and mccoy in a ppr dynasty, i don't think i would trade them for forte -- but then again i don't consider forte a top 5 ppr dynasty RB. if it were someone i *did* like as a top 5 dynasty RB, then yeah, i think i'd do the deal.conversely, if i had forte (and i thought he was a top 5 dynasty RB), i would not trade him for the package of westbrook/mccoy.

 

[Biabreakable]

Interesting.McCoy > Forte.hmmm doubtful. Better team yes. Better player no.

I'm pretty sure you were involved in some respect in the Forte thread, but to summarize what myself, EBF and others have covered ad naseum so far: I/we don't think Forte is an extraordinary player, only that he had extraordinary opportunity last year (particularly in PPR with Orton aka Sgt Swing Pass aka Cpt Check Down). Forte is an average/above average back, but it is unlikely he will ever have the perfect storm of opportunity again like last year. Most rookies you sort of extrapolate an increase based on their improvement, but I personally think we've seen his peak. It's not about McCoy being greater than Forte, because from a fantasy perspective Forte still has more opportunity at this point. But, then, that wasn't the trade being discussed. Westbrook is, for as long as he stays healthy, capable of top 5 numbers.... and for me, I think McCoy has at least if not more upside and is more likely to be in a starting role in 3 yrs time.

So you think McCoy has more talent than Forte?

 

[thriftyrocker]

It's not about McCoy being greater than Forte, because from a fantasy perspective Forte still has more opportunity at this point. But, then, that wasn't the trade being discussed. Westbrook is, for as long as he stays healthy, capable of top 5 numbers.... and for me, I think McCoy has at least if not more upside and is more likely to be in a starting role in 3 yrs time.

Westbrook past and presentFirst present. He is no longer capable of being a number 1 fantasy back. The team is going to protect him so he's there in January. They are not going to lean on him in tight games or go to him in a closer role. They did it last year, they won't this year. Expect a timeshare. He is a solid #2, that is it.Now past. Westbrook's past 3+ years have been kind of a perfect storm. The team invested nothing in WRs and stuck with a failed draft pick at TE, which meant the whole offense went through Westbrook. The team is different now. They invested two high picks in WRs. Celek may be a legit TE long term. They don't need the RB to catch 75 to 90 balls.The offense will not run through McCoy like it did through Westbrook. The team will still pass to the RB, but I'm doubtful McCoy will ever get anywhere close to a 90 catch year. Even 60 would seem high. There's still a lot of points there, but the upside is not as high. (If there's any PPR RB perfect storm brewing it's a little further south on 95)Of course that has little to do with the Forte for Philly comparison. If it was me, I'd take the Forte side, and that's coming from someone who believes in McCoy more than Forte. It's an opportunity play, but with Cutler playing like he is, it's a fluke Forte hasn't vultured more points. Forte scores more than the Philly starter this year, and he scores more next year unless Westbrook is done.

 

[munchkin]

Bernard Scott saw a little bit of time last week (in the third quarter I believe) and the comments I read in the FBG's breakdown was that he ran pretty well but went down "easily" on first contact. Does anyone else have any comments on his performance?

 

[crnerblitz]

So you think McCoy has more talent than Forte?

I cant speak for corpcow, but I believe that McCoy does have more talant and ability than Forte. If someone was to offer me Forte for McCoy straight up I would be hesitant to except the offer unless my team was on a last year run with loads of aging vets and Forte really filled the hole in my lineup. But thats a pretty extreme example. I believe that by this time 2011 McCoy will be one of the top 5 Runningbacks in the league AND the bears may be trying to replace Forte in the lineup. JMHO.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Love the work you do F & L. Your rankings blog is always a good and fun read...That said, I think you have Nicks too low. I would put him near the top of tier 4. I would rank him ahead of everyone in tier 5 and most everyone in tier 4 (with the possible exceptions of Smith and Crabtree).

Still curious to hear your thoughts on this... Nicks is loaded with talent and will likely be starting sooner rather than later. In every chance he's been given so far, whether in preseason or regular season, he has flashed his sick talent. He seems like a guy who can do it all.

Was waiting to hear some kind of reasoning from you first. I agree that he's a very good talent and has a bright future. I'm not sure about the starting gig, though.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Good stuff, geoff. I'll have to do more homework on our favorite French waiter.

I still question everybody writing off Gonzalez simply because he's momentarily out of the picture, but I'll keep an open mind on the future of the Colts receivers.

I'm not writing off Gonzalez, but I do think that Garcon has to be significantly higher than Austin Collie right now, based both on production/buzz to date and upside. I'd definitely put Garcon in Johnnie Knox / Mike Wallace territory. And I'm saying this as someone who just traded him away.

Are we sure about this?

 

[SSOG]

Good stuff, geoff. I'll have to do more homework on our favorite French waiter.

I still question everybody writing off Gonzalez simply because he's momentarily out of the picture, but I'll keep an open mind on the future of the Colts receivers.

I'm not writing off Gonzalez, but I do think that Garcon has to be significantly higher than Austin Collie right now, based both on production/buzz to date and upside. I'd definitely put Garcon in Johnnie Knox / Mike Wallace territory. And I'm saying this as someone who just traded him away.

Are we sure about this?

Of course not. We're talking about essentially a 3-game sample. If you asked me which of the two I'd prefer right now, though, it's Garcon by a noticeable margin. Not a huge margin, but a definitely margin.

 

[WFR]

Even after that 2nd TD?

 

[SSOG]

Even after that 2nd TD?

Sure. My preference has nothing to do with what they're doing on the field right now and everything to do with how likely they are to see the field once Gonzalez comes back (paired with Polian's man-crush on Garcon).

 

[EBF]

Love the work you do F & L. Your rankings blog is always a good and fun read...That said, I think you have Nicks too low. I would put him near the top of tier 4. I would rank him ahead of everyone in tier 5 and most everyone in tier 4 (with the possible exceptions of Smith and Crabtree).

Still curious to hear your thoughts on this... Nicks is loaded with talent and will likely be starting sooner rather than later. In every chance he's been given so far, whether in preseason or regular season, he has flashed his sick talent. He seems like a guy who can do it all.

Was waiting to hear some kind of reasoning from you first. I agree that he's a very good talent and has a bright future. I'm not sure about the starting gig, though.

I think it will be tough to keep him off the field. Watching him throughout the preseason and regular season, it's clear that all he does is make plays. At the very least I would expect him to eventually pass Manningham on the depth chart.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I think it will be tough to keep him off the field. Watching him throughout the preseason and regular season, it's clear that all he does is make plays. At the very least I would expect him to eventually pass Manningham on the depth chart.

Oh, I agree. But eventually is the key word. I was planning on moving him up after today's game -- it's just a question of how much.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Even after that 2nd TD?

Sure. My preference has nothing to do with what they're doing on the field right now and everything to do with how likely they are to see the field once Gonzalez comes back (paired with Polian's man-crush on Garcon).

From what I've seen, I have a hard time believing Garcon will have a bigger role than Collie once Gonzalez comes back.

 

[SSOG]

I think it will be tough to keep him off the field. Watching him throughout the preseason and regular season, it's clear that all he does is make plays. At the very least I would expect him to eventually pass Manningham on the depth chart.

Agreed. I was a skeptic at first, but I really like what I've seen so far from Nicks.

 

[SSOG]

Even after that 2nd TD?

Sure. My preference has nothing to do with what they're doing on the field right now and everything to do with how likely they are to see the field once Gonzalez comes back (paired with Polian's man-crush on Garcon).

From what I've seen, I have a hard time believing Garcon will have a bigger role than Collie once Gonzalez comes back.

Why? Garcon's skill set is more different than Gonzalez's than Collie's is.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Even after that 2nd TD?

Sure. My preference has nothing to do with what they're doing on the field right now and everything to do with how likely they are to see the field once Gonzalez comes back (paired with Polian's man-crush on Garcon).

From what I've seen, I have a hard time believing Garcon will have a bigger role than Collie once Gonzalez comes back.

Why? Garcon's skill set is more different than Gonzalez's than Collie's is.

Right. He'll be a situational deep threat with Gonzalez as the No. 2 and Collie the No. 3.

 

[Biabreakable]

So you think McCoy has more talent than Forte?

I cant speak for corpcow, but I believe that McCoy does have more talant and ability than Forte. If someone was to offer me Forte for McCoy straight up I would be hesitant to except the offer unless my team was on a last year run with loads of aging vets and Forte really filled the hole in my lineup. But thats a pretty extreme example. I believe that by this time 2011 McCoy will be one of the top 5 Runningbacks in the league AND the bears may be trying to replace Forte in the lineup. JMHO.

Thanks man.I havent seen McCoy yet this year so all I really know about the guy is from some highlight stuff and what scouts have said. Most of that has caused me to be skeptical of McCoy being a success. BUT. The Iggles did draft him 2nd round. They seem to like him more than the scouts ect. would have me thinking they should. He also seems like the kind of player who fits in with the high percentage passing game the Eagles have. The Eagles run a different offense than any other team in the league. They have always seemed to do things a bit differently even before Reid. McCoy is only 20 years old. I can't think of many coaches I would rather have developing him at this point in his career.I was a lot more skeptical of McCoy a month after the NFL draft than I am right now. And I had him ranked pretty low. But now that the smoke has cleared and I look at it objectivly again he could wind up being a very valuable player. I need to see him play. The little stuff not highlights to form any opinion about him.

 

[renesauz]

So you think McCoy has more talent than Forte?

I cant speak for corpcow, but I believe that McCoy does have more talant and ability than Forte. If someone was to offer me Forte for McCoy straight up I would be hesitant to except the offer unless my team was on a last year run with loads of aging vets and Forte really filled the hole in my lineup. But thats a pretty extreme example. I believe that by this time 2011 McCoy will be one of the top 5 Runningbacks in the league AND the bears may be trying to replace Forte in the lineup. JMHO.

Thanks man.I havent seen McCoy yet this year so all I really know about the guy is from some highlight stuff and what scouts have said. Most of that has caused me to be skeptical of McCoy being a success.

BUT. The Iggles did draft him 2nd round. They seem to like him more than the scouts ect. would have me thinking they should. He also seems like the kind of player who fits in with the high percentage passing game the Eagles have. The Eagles run a different offense than any other team in the league. They have always seemed to do things a bit differently even before Reid.

McCoy is only 20 years old. I can't think of many coaches I would rather have developing him at this point in his career.

I was a lot more skeptical of McCoy a month after the NFL draft than I am right now. And I had him ranked pretty low. But now that the smoke has cleared and I look at it objectivly again he could wind up being a very valuable player. I need to see him play. The little stuff not highlights to form any opinion about him.

I've watched every snap of every game this year, including pre-season. McCoy does everything well...he is a surprisingly good pass blocker, and has decent hands. He's very dangerous in the open field and has OK (not great) power. Everything I've seen leads me to believe he'll be an above average RB in the NFL when he get's the opportunity full time. He's still very young and should get better.As to the ealier question of Westy/McCoy for Forte....I'd take the McCoy side unless I was a true contender THIS YEAR AND was short of viable starting RB's. Forte will probably outscore either this year, but McCoy has a higher ceiling, IMHO.

 

[MAC_32]

Even after that 2nd TD?

Sure. My preference has nothing to do with what they're doing on the field right now and everything to do with how likely they are to see the field once Gonzalez comes back (paired with Polian's man-crush on Garcon).

From what I've seen, I have a hard time believing Garcon will have a bigger role than Collie once Gonzalez comes back.

Why? Garcon's skill set is more different than Gonzalez's than Collie's is.

Right. He'll be a situational deep threat with Gonzalez as the No. 2 and Collie the No. 3.

Collie's not going to sit because he's too similar to Gonz. Collie's better than Garcon. The fact that their skill sets are different is moot, the better player will see the field more.I like both, really like them actually, but Collie's better. He's a complete WR whereas Garcon is not.

 

[stevegamer]

So you think McCoy has more talent than Forte?

I cant speak for corpcow, but I believe that McCoy does have more talant and ability than Forte. If someone was to offer me Forte for McCoy straight up I would be hesitant to except the offer unless my team was on a last year run with loads of aging vets and Forte really filled the hole in my lineup. But thats a pretty extreme example. I believe that by this time 2011 McCoy will be one of the top 5 Runningbacks in the league AND the bears may be trying to replace Forte in the lineup. JMHO.

Thanks man.I havent seen McCoy yet this year so all I really know about the guy is from some highlight stuff and what scouts have said. Most of that has caused me to be skeptical of McCoy being a success.

BUT. The Iggles did draft him 2nd round. They seem to like him more than the scouts ect. would have me thinking they should. He also seems like the kind of player who fits in with the high percentage passing game the Eagles have. The Eagles run a different offense than any other team in the league. They have always seemed to do things a bit differently even before Reid.

McCoy is only 20 years old. I can't think of many coaches I would rather have developing him at this point in his career.

I was a lot more skeptical of McCoy a month after the NFL draft than I am right now. And I had him ranked pretty low. But now that the smoke has cleared and I look at it objectivly again he could wind up being a very valuable player. I need to see him play. The little stuff not highlights to form any opinion about him.

I've watched every snap of every game this year, including pre-season. McCoy does everything well...he is a surprisingly good pass blocker, and has decent hands. He's very dangerous in the open field and has OK (not great) power. Everything I've seen leads me to believe he'll be an above average RB in the NFL when he get's the opportunity full time. He's still very young and should get better.As to the ealier question of Westy/McCoy for Forte....I'd take the McCoy side unless I was a true contender THIS YEAR AND was short of viable starting RB's. Forte will probably outscore either this year, but McCoy has a higher ceiling, IMHO.

McCoy is also very young, IIRC. I'd take him over Forte, narrowly, and I'm a Forte owner in dynasty.

 

[SSOG]

Even after that 2nd TD?

Sure. My preference has nothing to do with what they're doing on the field right now and everything to do with how likely they are to see the field once Gonzalez comes back (paired with Polian's man-crush on Garcon).

From what I've seen, I have a hard time believing Garcon will have a bigger role than Collie once Gonzalez comes back.

Why? Garcon's skill set is more different than Gonzalez's than Collie's is.

Right. He'll be a situational deep threat with Gonzalez as the No. 2 and Collie the No. 3.

The Colts are more likely to have Garcon on the field with Gonzo than they are to have Collie.The Colts are more likely to have Gonzo on the field than Collie.Both have looked good with Gonzo out. Based on playing style, I think Garcon will get more snaps once Gonzo returns than Collie. I see a lot more people sky-high on Garcon than I do on Collie (including Polian). Both have essentially identical numbers so far this season, and I don't think that's any accident- Manning's the type of QB where everyone on the field is going to get theirs.

 

[Casper05]

I'm interested in some of the experts opinions on some backup running backs: Shonne Greene, Jerious Norwood, Darren Sproles, Tashard Choice.

 

[karmarooster]

Any thoughts on Tampa QB Josh Johnson? I tried to use the search feature but couldn't find him. Looking for some insight from those who have watched both games... I've only seen highlights and box score.

Obviously his situation isn't ideal, and he won't hold off Josh Freeman forever, but he does look like he has some talent. Compared to say, Seneca Wallace, he's got more touch and better accuracy. His second TD to Winslow against the Eagles was a nice bullet. Also has some nice wheels. Could he ever be more than a career backup, more than Seneca?

Through two games as a starter, he's put up 39 for 72 (54%) for 356 yards, 3 TDs and 4 INTs, 81 yards rushing. He's done about as much as could be expected of a small-school 5th round pick in his second year making his second start.

Is he worth rostering in a 12 man league when I've already got Schaub, Edwards, and Stafford?

here's an article about him from today's game where the eagles blitz him repeatedly:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/2009...verwhelmed.html

"This is by far the most we've ever blitzed since I've been here," said Brown, the Eagles' cornerback in his eighth season. "By far." The plan worked in the Eagles' 33-14 victory. Johnson was rarely settled in the pocket. The Eagles made three interceptions - two after the Bucs moved inside the Eagles' 20-yard line. His pass attempts (50) almost equaled his passer rating (53.8).

 

[EBF]

I'm interested in some of the experts opinions on some backup running backs: Shonne Greene, Jerious Norwood, Darren Sproles, Tashard Choice.

I would rank them like this:1. Shonn Greene - I think there's a lot to like here. The Rex Ryan era is off to a good start in New York and I have quite a bit of faith in this organization to make smart personnel decisions. By extension, I have faith that their selection of Greene will prove to be a good one. Greene is the new regime's hand-picked workhorse. They traded up to get him with the first pick in the third round (which is incidentally where Frank Gore and Kevin Smith were both drafted in recent years). They said he was far and away the top player left on their board when they took him. Thomas Jones is near the end of his career and Leon Washington has always been a committee back. Read the writing on the wall here. There will be a big opportunity for touches in this running game and Greene is the obvious candidate to fill that impending void. I'm pretty confident that Greene's FF value will rise over the next 1-2 years, but don't trade the farm for him. He lacks elite upside due to his mediocre long speed and will probably top out as a MB3/Rudi type of bruiser. 2. Tashard Choice - Choice has always produced when given the opportunity, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's destined for a starting job. I could see his career unfolding in a few different ways. He could end up like Mewelde Moore, perennially underappreciated and underutilized. Moore is a very similar player: college stud, middle round pick, B grade physical gifts, and consistent effectiveness. How much fantasy value does Mewelde have? Not much. On the flipside, Choice could end up like Chester Taylor. He could parlay his impressive committee work into a big contract and a starting job. He's a good player. Unfortunately, good isn't always good enough in the NFL. The risk with Choice is that he'll always be in a time share or, if he's lucky enough to find a starting job, he'll always be looking over his shoulder at a host of challengers hungry to steal his job.3. Darren Sproles - He has dynamic talent, but his size limits his upside. He had an opportunity to really step up this season with LT out of commission and he didn't capitalize. Even with his great performance in the playoffs last season, it seems clear that he belongs in a committee with a bigger back who can handle the heavy lifting. Someone might throw some money at him in free agency and give him more chances to make plays, but he'll probably never touch the ball 20 or even 15 times per game. 4. Jerious Norwood - He is what he is: a situational home run hitter who will never get enough touches to be relied on.

 

[editor47]

Any thoughts on Tampa QB Josh Johnson? I tried to use the search feature but couldn't find him. Looking for some insight from those who have watched both games... I've only seen highlights and box score.

Obviously his situation isn't ideal, and he won't hold off Josh Freeman forever, but he does look like he has some talent. Compared to say, Seneca Wallace, he's got more touch and better accuracy. His second TD to Winslow against the Eagles was a nice bullet. Also has some nice wheels. Could he ever be more than a career backup, more than Seneca?

Through two games as a starter, he's put up 39 for 72 (54%) for 356 yards, 3 TDs and 4 INTs, 81 yards rushing. He's done about as much as could be expected of a small-school 5th round pick in his second year making his second start.

Is he worth rostering in a 12 man league when I've already got Schaub, Edwards, and Stafford?

here's an article about him from today's game where the eagles blitz him repeatedly:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/2009...verwhelmed.html

"This is by far the most we've ever blitzed since I've been here," said Brown, the Eagles' cornerback in his eighth season. "By far." The plan worked in the Eagles' 33-14 victory. Johnson was rarely settled in the pocket. The Eagles made three interceptions - two after the Bucs moved inside the Eagles' 20-yard line. His pass attempts (50) almost equaled his passer rating (53.8).

i liked what i i saw of him in today's game. but you're right: he won't hold off freeman for long. did he sign a 3-year deal last year? he can probably start the rest of the year. i guess. it seems like the smart thing to do - let freeman sit and watch. young QBs don't do well against the eagles. they never have. they've gotten eaten alive. he didn't. he wasn't spectacular. he wasn't much above average, if at all. but he looked like he could play in the NFL.

he's not the worst starting QB in the NFL: he's better than edwards. better than derek anderson. better than jamarcus russell. better than shaun hill. maybe better than jake delhomme, jason campbell. beter than bulger/boller, probably. he's got some good weapons - Bryant, Winslow. Clayton blows. 11 targets, 2 catches today. Several drops. Multiple RBs.

don't feel like i can evaluate the OL based on the 1 game today.

in your case, i wouldn't rush out to get him, but i would rather have him than trent edwards.

 

[SSOG]

I'm interested in some of the experts opinions on some backup running backs: Shonne Greene, Jerious Norwood, Darren Sproles, Tashard Choice.

I would rank them like this:1. Shonn Greene - I think there's a lot to like here. The Rex Ryan era is off to a good start in New York and I have quite a bit of faith in this organization to make smart personnel decisions. By extension, I have faith that their selection of Greene will prove to be a good one. Greene is the new regime's hand-picked workhorse. They traded up to get him with the first pick in the third round (which is incidentally where Frank Gore and Kevin Smith were both drafted in recent years). They said he was far and away the top player left on their board when they took him. Thomas Jones is near the end of his career and Leon Washington has always been a committee back. Read the writing on the wall here. There will be a big opportunity for touches in this running game and Greene is the obvious candidate to fill that impending void. I'm pretty confident that Greene's FF value will rise over the next 1-2 years, but don't trade the farm for him. He lacks elite upside due to his mediocre long speed and will probably top out as a MB3/Rudi type of bruiser. 2. Tashard Choice - Choice has always produced when given the opportunity, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's destined for a starting job. I could see his career unfolding in a few different ways. He could end up like Mewelde Moore, perennially underappreciated and underutilized. Moore is a very similar player: college stud, middle round pick, B grade physical gifts, and consistent effectiveness. How much fantasy value does Mewelde have? Not much. On the flipside, Choice could end up like Chester Taylor. He could parlay his impressive committee work into a big contract and a starting job. He's a good player. Unfortunately, good isn't always good enough in the NFL. The risk with Choice is that he'll always be in a time share or, if he's lucky enough to find a starting job, he'll always be looking over his shoulder at a host of challengers hungry to steal his job.3. Darren Sproles - He has dynamic talent, but his size limits his upside. He had an opportunity to really step up this season with LT out of commission and he didn't capitalize. Even with his great performance in the playoffs last season, it seems clear that he belongs in a committee with a bigger back who can handle the heavy lifting. Someone might throw some money at him in free agency and give him more chances to make plays, but he'll probably never touch the ball 20 or even 15 times per game. 4. Jerious Norwood - He is what he is: a situational home run hitter who will never get enough touches to be relied on.

I always hate it when EBF beats me out and posts what I was going to say, because now it just looks like I'm parroting EBF.

 

[jdoggydogg]

I'm interested in some of the experts opinions on some backup running backs: Shonne Greene, Jerious Norwood, Darren Sproles, Tashard Choice.

I would rank them like this:1. Shonn Greene - I think there's a lot to like here. The Rex Ryan era is off to a good start in New York and I have quite a bit of faith in this organization to make smart personnel decisions. By extension, I have faith that their selection of Greene will prove to be a good one. Greene is the new regime's hand-picked workhorse. They traded up to get him with the first pick in the third round (which is incidentally where Frank Gore and Kevin Smith were both drafted in recent years). They said he was far and away the top player left on their board when they took him. Thomas Jones is near the end of his career and Leon Washington has always been a committee back. Read the writing on the wall here. There will be a big opportunity for touches in this running game and Greene is the obvious candidate to fill that impending void. I'm pretty confident that Greene's FF value will rise over the next 1-2 years, but don't trade the farm for him. He lacks elite upside due to his mediocre long speed and will probably top out as a MB3/Rudi type of bruiser. 2. Tashard Choice - Choice has always produced when given the opportunity, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's destined for a starting job. I could see his career unfolding in a few different ways. He could end up like Mewelde Moore, perennially underappreciated and underutilized. Moore is a very similar player: college stud, middle round pick, B grade physical gifts, and consistent effectiveness. How much fantasy value does Mewelde have? Not much. On the flipside, Choice could end up like Chester Taylor. He could parlay his impressive committee work into a big contract and a starting job. He's a good player. Unfortunately, good isn't always good enough in the NFL. The risk with Choice is that he'll always be in a time share or, if he's lucky enough to find a starting job, he'll always be looking over his shoulder at a host of challengers hungry to steal his job.3. Darren Sproles - He has dynamic talent, but his size limits his upside. He had an opportunity to really step up this season with LT out of commission and he didn't capitalize. Even with his great performance in the playoffs last season, it seems clear that he belongs in a committee with a bigger back who can handle the heavy lifting. Someone might throw some money at him in free agency and give him more chances to make plays, but he'll probably never touch the ball 20 or even 15 times per game. 4. Jerious Norwood - He is what he is: a situational home run hitter who will never get enough touches to be relied on.

I always hate it when EBF beats me out and posts what I was going to say, because now it just looks like I'm parroting EBF.

Yeah, I was totally going to say all that, too

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I'm interested in some of the experts opinions on some backup running backs: Shonne Greene, Jerious Norwood, Darren Sproles, Tashard Choice.

I would rank them like this:1. Shonn Greene - I think there's a lot to like here. The Rex Ryan era is off to a good start in New York and I have quite a bit of faith in this organization to make smart personnel decisions. By extension, I have faith that their selection of Greene will prove to be a good one. Greene is the new regime's hand-picked workhorse. They traded up to get him with the first pick in the third round (which is incidentally where Frank Gore and Kevin Smith were both drafted in recent years). They said he was far and away the top player left on their board when they took him. Thomas Jones is near the end of his career and Leon Washington has always been a committee back. Read the writing on the wall here. There will be a big opportunity for touches in this running game and Greene is the obvious candidate to fill that impending void. I'm pretty confident that Greene's FF value will rise over the next 1-2 years, but don't trade the farm for him. He lacks elite upside due to his mediocre long speed and will probably top out as a MB3/Rudi type of bruiser. 2. Tashard Choice - Choice has always produced when given the opportunity, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's destined for a starting job. I could see his career unfolding in a few different ways. He could end up like Mewelde Moore, perennially underappreciated and underutilized. Moore is a very similar player: college stud, middle round pick, B grade physical gifts, and consistent effectiveness. How much fantasy value does Mewelde have? Not much. On the flipside, Choice could end up like Chester Taylor. He could parlay his impressive committee work into a big contract and a starting job. He's a good player. Unfortunately, good isn't always good enough in the NFL. The risk with Choice is that he'll always be in a time share or, if he's lucky enough to find a starting job, he'll always be looking over his shoulder at a host of challengers hungry to steal his job.3. Darren Sproles - He has dynamic talent, but his size limits his upside. He had an opportunity to really step up this season with LT out of commission and he didn't capitalize. Even with his great performance in the playoffs last season, it seems clear that he belongs in a committee with a bigger back who can handle the heavy lifting. Someone might throw some money at him in free agency and give him more chances to make plays, but he'll probably never touch the ball 20 or even 15 times per game. 4. Jerious Norwood - He is what he is: a situational home run hitter who will never get enough touches to be relied on.

I always hate it when EBF beats me out and posts what I was going to say, because now it just looks like I'm parroting EBF.

Yeah, I was totally going to say all that, too

 

[WFR]

Even after that 2nd TD?

Sure. My preference has nothing to do with what they're doing on the field right now and everything to do with how likely they are to see the field once Gonzalez comes back (paired with Polian's man-crush on Garcon).

From what I've seen, I have a hard time believing Garcon will have a bigger role than Collie once Gonzalez comes back.

Where would you rank Wallace, PIT and Caldwell, CIN in regards to Collie, Garcon, Nicks, Britt?They are a couple I am targeting in my dynasty league.NicksCollieGarconBritt-man what I would give to see him with a real QB!WallaceCaldwell

 

[SSOG]

Where would you rank Wallace, PIT and Caldwell, CIN in regards to Collie, Garcon, Nicks, Britt?They are a couple I am targeting in my dynasty league.NicksCollieGarconBritt-man what I would give to see him with a real QB!WallaceCaldwell

NicksCaldwellBrittWallaceGarconCollieEdited to Add: This is not a totally hypothetical exercise for me. I added Collie, Garcon, Caldwell, and Wallace either over the offseason or after week 1 (along with Sims-Walker and Austin), and when faced with the choice of which young prospects to package for an older veteran who is producing right now, I actively shopped Collie, Garcon, and Austin with the intention of keeping and developing MSW, Caldwell, and Wallace on my roster.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Even after that 2nd TD?

Sure. My preference has nothing to do with what they're doing on the field right now and everything to do with how likely they are to see the field once Gonzalez comes back (paired with Polian's man-crush on Garcon).

From what I've seen, I have a hard time believing Garcon will have a bigger role than Collie once Gonzalez comes back.

Where would you rank Wallace, PIT and Caldwell, CIN in regards to Collie, Garcon, Nicks, Britt?They are a couple I am targeting in my dynasty league.NicksCollieGarconBritt-man what I would give to see him with a real QB!WallaceCaldwell

BrittNicks...Wallace.Collie/Garcon/Caldwell

 

[WFR]

BrittNicks...Wallace.Collie/Garcon/Caldwell

Thanks!If Young takes over for Collins does Britt's value go up or down?

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

I am wondering if Collie and Garcon are going to cripple Gonzalez's value. It appears to me that both can play. Manning is obviously a fantastic QB to distribute the ball, but how many receivers can realistically be started there? Clark and Wayne are averaging 18 targets combined. Manning is throwing 36 passes/game. The RBs are averaging 7.5/game. That leaves 10.5 for Gonzo, Collie and Garcon to split if the distribution remains consistent. Not pretty for any of the three IMO.

Curious on the opinions of Breaston. Just traded for him, and was a bit surprised to see him so far down F&Ls list.

 

[SSOG]

I am wondering if Collie and Garcon are going to cripple Gonzalez's value. It appears to me that both can play. Manning is obviously a fantastic QB to distribute the ball, but how many receivers can realistically be started there? Clark and Wayne are averaging 18 targets combined. Manning is throwing 36 passes/game. The RBs are averaging 7.5/game. That leaves 10.5 for Gonzo, Collie and Garcon to split if the distribution remains consistent. Not pretty for any of the three IMO. Curious on the opinions of Breaston. Just traded for him, and was a bit surprised to see him so far down F&Ls list.

I only own him in one league, but that league rewards punt return yardage the same as receiving yardage, which certainly makes a big difference for Breaston, Royal, Hester, and DeSean (who are essentially a lock for 200+ punt return yards a year).I don't see a lot of Arizona, so I haven't seen Breaston play much, but I like the fact that his production takes a step up when Fitz or Boldin are out (meaning he could be a legit NFL WR2), as well as the fact that Boldin is as good as gone. I don't like the fact that Breaston will likely soon be catching passes from Matt Leinart instead of Kurt Warner.

 

[BespokeJort]

Where would you rank Wallace, PIT and Caldwell, CIN in regards to Collie, Garcon, Nicks, Britt?They are a couple I am targeting in my dynasty league.NicksCollieGarconBritt-man what I would give to see him with a real QB!WallaceCaldwell

NicksCaldwellBrittWallaceGarconCollieEdited to Add: This is not a totally hypothetical exercise for me. I added Collie, Garcon, Caldwell, and Wallace either over the offseason or after week 1 (along with Sims-Walker and Austin), and when faced with the choice of which young prospects to package for an older veteran who is producing right now, I actively shopped Collie, Garcon, and Austin with the intention of keeping and developing MSW, Caldwell, and Wallace on my roster.

interesting to see caldwell above Britt...other than that we're on a similar page there. Two game-winning TDs through 5 weeks has me very excited about the rapport he's building with Palmer.EDIT: am developing Caldwell, Schilens, MSW (although he's pretty much a starter until Steve Smith shows me something) and Harvin im my main dyno. Almost cut Caldwell early in the season considering what a clusterf**k that WR group was, but am glad i didn't at this point

 

[THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA]

REGGIE BUSH in non ppr dynasty

How do you value him? He is avg about 37rush yrds/a game and 30rec yrds/a game.

Not sure what to make of him. Every non ppr league i am in no one starts him.

Is he droppable for maybe a possible budding star like Austin.

With Jones liking Austin and he saving the Boys butt this week they could move him to starter opposite ROY going foward and

he could be the teams new deep threat/playmaker. And probably would do more than 67yrds/a game???

Is this crazy thinking or am i not valueing R.Bush right?

 

[thatguy]

I think it will be tough to keep him off the field. Watching him throughout the preseason and regular season, it's clear that all he does is make plays. At the very least I would expect him to eventually pass Manningham on the depth chart.

Oh, I agree. But eventually is the key word. I was planning on moving him up after today's game -- it's just a question of how much.

Top if tier 4, like I said.

 

[EBF]

Where would you rank Wallace, PIT and Caldwell, CIN in regards to Collie, Garcon, Nicks, Britt?They are a couple I am targeting in my dynasty league.NicksCollieGarconBritt-man what I would give to see him with a real QB!WallaceCaldwell

NicksCaldwellBrittWallaceGarconCollieEdited to Add: This is not a totally hypothetical exercise for me. I added Collie, Garcon, Caldwell, and Wallace either over the offseason or after week 1 (along with Sims-Walker and Austin), and when faced with the choice of which young prospects to package for an older veteran who is producing right now, I actively shopped Collie, Garcon, and Austin with the intention of keeping and developing MSW, Caldwell, and Wallace on my roster.

I like this list. I have Nicks a notch above the rest of these guys. I'm not as high on Mike Wallace as most people are. He's a deep threat and not much else. I don't see him ever developing into a reliable FF WR. He's basically a lesser Bernard Berrian.

 

[SSOG]

I like this list. I have Nicks a notch above the rest of these guys. I'm not as high on Mike Wallace as most people are. He's a deep threat and not much else. I don't see him ever developing into a reliable FF WR. He's basically a lesser Bernard Berrian.

Yeah, Nicks is definitely a tier or two above the others. I wasn't big on Nicks at first, but I've really been coming around to him and I think he's going to be a very good dynasty WR going forward. I also think there's another big gap between Caldwell/Britt and the other three.As for Wallace... he's pretty tightly grouped with Collie and Garcon, I just gave him the edge because he's in a *much* better situation going forward, imo.

 

[WFR]

F&L,

Since your 9/17 Dynasty Rankings for RB's do you see Moreno moving up or down from #9RB?

Trying to gauge his value since he's finally getting some playing time in.

I'm considering trading Lynch for Moreno in a non-ppr dynasty league.

Also, does Pierre Thomas move up from #25RB?

 

[SSOG]

F&L,Since your 9/17 Dynasty Rankings for RB's do you see Moreno moving up or down from #9RB?Trying to gauge his value since he's finally getting some playing time in.I'm considering trading Lynch for Moreno in a non-ppr dynasty league.

I'm higher on Lynch and lower than Moreno than F&L is... but I'd still pull the trigger on that trade in a heartbeat, no question whatsoever.

 

[gregjcross]

Interesting.McCoy > Forte.hmmm doubtful. Better team yes. Better player no.

I'm pretty sure you were involved in some respect in the Forte thread, but to summarize what myself, EBF and others have covered ad naseum so far: I/we don't think Forte is an extraordinary player, only that he had extraordinary opportunity last year (particularly in PPR with Orton aka Sgt Swing Pass aka Cpt Check Down). Forte is an average/above average back, but it is unlikely he will ever have the perfect storm of opportunity again like last year. Most rookies you sort of extrapolate an increase based on their improvement, but I personally think we've seen his peak. It's not about McCoy being greater than Forte, because from a fantasy perspective Forte still has more opportunity at this point. But, then, that wasn't the trade being discussed. Westbrook is, for as long as he stays healthy, capable of top 5 numbers.... and for me, I think McCoy has at least if not more upside and is more likely to be in a starting role in 3 yrs time.

Forte is above average back, great hands, decent power and speed.

 

[corpcow]

Where would you rank Wallace, PIT and Caldwell, CIN in regards to Collie, Garcon, Nicks, Britt?They are a couple I am targeting in my dynasty league.NicksCollieGarconBritt-man what I would give to see him with a real QB!WallaceCaldwell

NicksCaldwellBrittWallaceGarconCollieEdited to Add: This is not a totally hypothetical exercise for me. I added Collie, Garcon, Caldwell, and Wallace either over the offseason or after week 1 (along with Sims-Walker and Austin), and when faced with the choice of which young prospects to package for an older veteran who is producing right now, I actively shopped Collie, Garcon, and Austin with the intention of keeping and developing MSW, Caldwell, and Wallace on my roster.

I like this list. I have Nicks a notch above the rest of these guys. I'm not as high on Mike Wallace as most people are. He's a deep threat and not much else. I don't see him ever developing into a reliable FF WR. He's basically a lesser Bernard Berrian.

Wallace = a cheaper Nate Washington

 

[BespokeJort]

Interesting.McCoy > Forte.hmmm doubtful. Better team yes. Better player no.

I'm pretty sure you were involved in some respect in the Forte thread, but to summarize what myself, EBF and others have covered ad naseum so far: I/we don't think Forte is an extraordinary player, only that he had extraordinary opportunity last year (particularly in PPR with Orton aka Sgt Swing Pass aka Cpt Check Down). Forte is an average/above average back, but it is unlikely he will ever have the perfect storm of opportunity again like last year. Most rookies you sort of extrapolate an increase based on their improvement, but I personally think we've seen his peak. It's not about McCoy being greater than Forte, because from a fantasy perspective Forte still has more opportunity at this point. But, then, that wasn't the trade being discussed. Westbrook is, for as long as he stays healthy, capable of top 5 numbers.... and for me, I think McCoy has at least if not more upside and is more likely to be in a starting role in 3 yrs time.

Forte is above average back, great hands, decent power and speed.

i like forte, but i've been avoiding him in all leagues because there's something about him that reminds me of chris browni don't mean that as an insult either, brown was a beast for awhile before he started getting hurt