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DYNASTY: Top 2013 College Prospects (1 Viewer)

Kenjon Barner not just a product of Oregon Ducks' quirky system

By Bucky Brooks

Analyst, NFL.com and NFL Network

Is it the system or the player?

That's the question scouts must address when assessing the pro potential of Oregon's Kenjon Barner. The senior has emerged as one of the top running backs in college football, yet NFL evaluators are having a tough time determining his draft value, due to the prolific nature of the Ducks' spread offense.

Since head coach Chip Kelly's arrival in 2007 (originally as an offensive coordinator), Oregon has not ranked lower than sixth in the country in rushing. Most impressively, the Ducks' leading rusher has finished seventh or better in rushing yards in each of the past four seasons, with LaMichael James leading the country in 2010 and finishing second in 2011 (behind Wisconsin's Montee Ball). Barner currently ranks third in the country with 1,295 yards, and is poised to continue the trend with a strong finish.

Given the remarkable success of Oregon runners in Kelly's scheme, scouts are reluctant to credit Barner for his ridiculous production. Cynics suggest his success is a byproduct of playing in a scheme that features wide offensive-line splits, three- and four-receiver spread formations and a frenetic pace. This combination of factors means Barner routinely finds open lanes against fatigued defenses stocked with poor-tackling defensive backs.

While all of that certainly contributes to Barner's success, I believe he has all of the tools to be an effective pro back after watching his sensational performance against USC. Barner ran 38 times for 321 yards with five touchdowns. Most importantly, he provided scouts with a handful of highlights that showcased his immense talent and potential.

Here are three aspects of Barner's game that stood out to me on Saturday:

1) Explosiveness: Though he's routinely overshadowed by teammate De'Anthony Thomas, Barner is one of the most explosive runners in college football. Barner shows impressive stop-start quickness, and his instant acceleration ranks as one of his strongest traits. Although he lacks elite straight-line speed, Barner's short-area quickness and burst allow him to blow past defenders on the second level. Against USC, Barner finished with 11 runs of 10-plus yards while showing the capacity to turn the corner against a fast defense. Most impressively, he slithered past multiple defenders at the point of attack and exploded through cracks, displaying remarkable acceleration. Given the speed and quickness of pro defenders, Barner's ability to consistently reach the second level makes him a dangerous weapon in the backfield.

2) Body Control: Speed is routinely cited as one of the most important traits for a running back, but in my mind, balance and body control are more important. Elite runners can both avoid tacklers in the hole and run through contact. Barner displayed all of those traits against USC. He repeatedly used nifty footwork and fakes to elude multiple defenders in the hole, and also powered through contact when cornered in traffic. Barner's magnificent display of balance and body control will impress scouts when they study the tape, and should squelch some of the concerns about how his game will translate to a conventional pro system.

3) Vision: Elite runners are able to spot cracks in the defense and immediately make a hard cut to explode through an opening. Barner is one of the best runners I've seen in the 2013 class at finding creases on the backside. Against USC, he repeatedly took the handoff and headed in the assigned direction before making a quick cut and exploding through an alley on the backside. Although the Ducks' zone-blocking scheme creates huge alleys with deceptive action in the backfield, the fact that Barner was able to consistently find an open crease is a tribute to his outstanding vision and anticipation. Those traits will help Barner develop into a productive runner in any system, and should enhance his value on draft boards across the league.

The proliferation of the spread offense has certainly changed the way scouts evaluate offensive players, particularly running backs. They must determine if a prospect's production is sustainable in a system that is drastically different from his college scheme. With Barner emerging as one of the most productive runners in college football, scouts will spend a lot of time studying the Ducks' offense, to see whether his talent and production are real or they stem solely from the system. I'm convinced his game is ideally suited for the pros, but Barner's final draft value ultimately will be determined by his perceived fit within a conventional offensive scheme.

WORD ON THE STREET

Offensive guards typically aren't valued at a premium in the draft, but the 2013 class features a pair of notable senior prospects at the position -- Alabama's Chance Warmack and North Carolina's Jonathan Cooper -- who are expected to become difference makers early in their careers.

According to an AFC South executive, Warmack is a big, physical interior blocker with the strength and power to "move the furniture." The exec went on to rave about Warmack's physicality and toughness, and how his presence will dramatically improve the prospects of a team seeking to build a power running game.

The exec lauded Cooper's athleticism and movement skills, telling me that Cooper is the perfect fit for a scheme that features zone blocking. He added that teams seeking an athletic interior blocker will love the North Carolina star.

STOCK UP

Matt Barkley, QB, USC

After entering the season generally regarded as the No. 1 quarterback prospect, Barkley has seen his value fluctuate due to concerns about his arm strength and athleticism. However, he might have addressed those issues with a strong performance against Oregon. Barkley completed 35 of 54 passes for 484 yards with five touchdowns and two interceptions. He displayed impressive arm strength by pushing the ball down the field to Marqise Lee and Nelson Agholor on a pair of long touchdowns (both throws traveled 50-plus yards in the air). Barkley also showed impressive anticipation and awareness by routinely throwing Trojan receivers open. Although he made a few questionable throws that should've been picked off by Ducks defenders, Barkley's aggressive approach was needed to keep up in an offensive shootout (USC ended up losing, 62-51).

Le'Veon Bell, RB, Michigan State

Bell was widely considered the premier big back in college football following the season-ending injury to South Carolina's Marcus Lattimore, and the junior further cemented this notion with a 36-carry, 188-yard effort against Nebraska. Bell relentlessly pounded the ball between the tackles, displaying the kind of grit coaches love to see in power runners. He also used nifty footwork and vision to avoid defenders in the hole and consistently picked up positive yardage despite facing a host of eight- and nine-man fronts for most of the day. While some scouts still question his toughness, Bell's size (6-foot-2, 244 pounds) and consistent production throughout the season will earn him high marks from most evaluators.

Allen Chapman, CB, Kansas State

Ball-hawks are valued at a premium at every level, so any cornerback who grabs three interceptions in a game will certainly create a buzz in the scouting community. Chapman will emerge as the talk of the town this week following a big performance against Oklahoma State. The 5-foot-11, 176-pound senior recorded three picks on a prime-time stage, including a 29-yard pick-six that changed the game for the Wildcats. While Chapman's hands and ball skills were certainly impressive, his route recognition and awareness were what stood out to me. He floated underneath a corner route against a smash combination in the end zone for a pick, and grabbed another interception on a deep crossing route after anticipating the throw. These traits are hard to find, making Chapman an intriguing prospect to keep an eye on.

STOCK DOWN

Joseph Randle, RB, Oklahoma State

Randle entered last weekend as one of the most productive runners in college football, but he was shut down by Kansas State. He gained just 43 yards on 15 attempts, and didn't provide any balance to the Cowboys' offense. Although Randle's lackluster output can't be pinned on his play alone, the fact that he finished with fewer than 50 rushing yards in a big game warrants his inclusion in this section.
 
I was just looking over a 2013 mock draft sight and noticed something rather shocking. No RBs are mocked in rounds 1 or 2 for this draft. The 1st RB off the board is Ellington, Clem at pick 72. Then Taylor, Stan at pick 88 and Gillislee, Florida at pick 92. Pretty rare if this does in deed happen. I don't disagree with the mock or how low they are ranking this group of RBs. If you are in need of a RB in your rookie draft though, you could be in trouble.
I don't think there are any 1st round prospects this year with Lattimore down, I think a couple will separate and get early into day 2 though. If you told me I had to name 2 it'd be Ellington and Bernard...maybe Randle, but I don't see a big difference between them and several others. There are lots of good RB's in this class, but no one special. Most will probably be 2nd or 3rd stringers throughout their career, the trick will be to identify the couple that will become meaningful contributors - probably not top 10 but top 20 guys.
Lacy is being very overlooked. He could slip into the 1st round with a good showing at the combine. I also think the Rams will consider Le'Veon Bell in the 2nd as the thunder to go with Richardson/Pead.
I think Lacy is a solid backup in the NFL, but that's it. Just isn't anything special about his game. He's not a difference maker in any way on the field, good player - good head for the game - plays hard, tough, and smart - just not a special talent. I like targeting him late day 2 or early day 3 on a team that needs a hammer, but that's about it.
 
Another guy I'm watching is Christine Michael who is coming off a torn ACL. He won't be an early pick but he's got the talent to be a starter.
Speaking of hammer's, always been captivated by his skillset but his inability to stay on the field has hampered him a bit. He was the better RB while Gray was around...when he was on the field. He's a guy that could really benefit over the last handful of games + bowl game then dominate the offseason, he has the ability to. My problem with him is he just hasn't done it consistently yet. He needs a hot streak and now is the perfect time.
 
Toledo RB David Fluellen (JR) with his 3rd 200-yard rushing game this year. Reminds me a lot of Matt Forte with his cuts and footwork.

 
'MAC_32 said:
I think Lacy is a solid backup in the NFL, but that's it. Just isn't anything special about his game. He's not a difference maker in any way on the field, good player - good head for the game - plays hard, tough, and smart - just not a special talent. I like targeting him late day 2 or early day 3 on a team that needs a hammer, but that's about it.
Have to disagree here. He is very quick and agile for his size. I don't know that he is special, but this class might not offer a special back. I think the 1st is a stretch, but I think 2nd round sounds about right. And I think he is clearly talented enough to be a starter in the NFL.
 
LeVeon Bell just screams Pittsburgh steelers in round 3
I don't see him falling that far now, with Lattimore gone. I think he is in the race or first back off the board, now. But put him on the Steelers and he is a mid-1st rookie dynasty pick.
from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.8/31 Boise State W 17-13 44 210 4.8 35 2 6 55 9.2 20 09/22 Eastern MichiganW 23-7 36 253 7.0 40 1 1 -8 -8.0 0 011/3 Nebraska L 28-24 36 188 5.2 40 2 0 0 0.0 0 010/13 Iowa L 19-16 (2OT) 29 140 4.8 27 1 0 0 0.0 0 0These are what I would consider his best games.Look at those carries! the only impressive game to me was Iowa, they have a pretty solid defense this year.(and no...Nebraska does not have a good D this year)9/8 @Central MichiganW 41-7 18 70 3.9 8 2 1 0 0.0 0 09/15 Notre Dame L 20-3 19 77 4.1 15 0 4 20 5.0 7 09/29 Ohio State L 17-16 17 45 2.6 8 0 8 58 7.3 13 010/6 @Indiana W 31-27 37 121 3.3 19 2 3 7 2.3 4 010/20 @Michigan L 12-10 26 68 2.6 8 0 2 5 2.5 3 010/27 @Wisconsin W 16-13 21 77 3.7 9 0 4 8 2.0 5 1these are the rest of his games... Look at the YPC vs good teams. I don't think Bell is going to be a complete bust, but he is far from a feature back. I see him finding a nice niche as a goaline vulture. A slightly less powerful Brandon Jacobs would be my comparison.The best backs in the Big Ten are Carlos Hyde and Montee Ball
 
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from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back. Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
 
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from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back. Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I suppose we shall have to wait and see sir :) :football:
 
from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back. Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I suppose we shall have to wait and see sir :) :football:
I like LeVeon Bell. You don't have to run a 4.4 to be a factor at RB in the NFL(ask Doug Martin).
 
from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back. Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I suppose we shall have to wait and see sir :) :football:
I like LeVeon Bell. You don't have to run a 4.4 to be a factor at RB in the NFL(ask Doug Martin).
Bell doesn't have anywhere near the quickness or acceleration of Martin. He is more of a plodding power back, which is a dying breed in today's NFL.
 
Bell doesn't have anywhere near the quickness or acceleration of Martin. He is more of a plodding power back, which is a dying breed in today's NFL.
Not saying I disagree, but, between Rotoworld and here, "plodding" is quickly becoming the new "stud" or "just sayin'". Way overused. You would think every RB in college/NFL is a plodder.
 
'MAC_32 said:
I think Lacy is a solid backup in the NFL, but that's it. Just isn't anything special about his game. He's not a difference maker in any way on the field, good player - good head for the game - plays hard, tough, and smart - just not a special talent. I like targeting him late day 2 or early day 3 on a team that needs a hammer, but that's about it.
Have to disagree here. He is very quick and agile for his size. I don't know that he is special, but this class might not offer a special back. I think the 1st is a stretch, but I think 2nd round sounds about right. And I think he is clearly talented enough to be a starter in the NFL.
I tend to agree with this. I didn't like Lacy entering the season, but he has looked decent enough this year. Not an incredible talent, but compact and powerful with just enough quickness and agility. I think he can be something like a Shonn Greene or Law Firm type of player in the NFL. Maybe a little better than that.
 
from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back. Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I suppose we shall have to wait and see sir :) :football:
I like LeVeon Bell. You don't have to run a 4.4 to be a factor at RB in the NFL(ask Doug Martin).
I really see a combo of Issac Redman and Brandon Jacobs... somewhere inbetween. It's not a flashy comp that people who like him are going to like, but what qualities does he really have that are going to set him apart at the next level?
 
Bell doesn't have anywhere near the quickness or acceleration of Martin. He is more of a plodding power back, which is a dying breed in today's NFL.
I have to question the use of the term "plodding". The guy has very solid feet, and can make people miss, very good balance, great spin move, he'll jump over you, he can plant at full speed, he can catch, he can protect. I get that he doesn't have homerun speed, but that doesn't make him a plodder. I don't mean this out of disrespect; I really value your opinion on college players; you clearly watch more than I do. But I think the "big, slow, plodding, Brandon Jacobs" talk is kind of lazy. Watch the guy in the open field - he'll break runs in the NFL. This isn't Brandon Jacobs, who, again, was a good starting RB in the NFL for a couple seasons. This isn't Greg Jones.
 
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from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back. Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I suppose we shall have to wait and see sir :) :football:
I like LeVeon Bell. You don't have to run a 4.4 to be a factor at RB in the NFL(ask Doug Martin).
The other thing to mention here is how bad the Big Ten actually is this year. It is pathetic watching some of these teams play. Any elite prospect would be able to rip through all these Ds.Michigan ST is a young team but they are really talented, WRs and QB are freshman. Sims is a monster TE prospect also. The have arguably the most talent on offense in the conference.ETA: I absolutely hate Michigan state... the hail mary game and the OT game were crushing losses... the scary part is they are beating Wisconsin now... whats it gonna be like in a few years
 
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I think the reason's Bells ypc is so bad is that his offense is starting a true freshman at QB and the opposing D's have nothing to do but try n stop him. MSU's passing offense is down right horrible.

He's a throwback power-back, I stick by my 3rd round estimate, and in a year where there were more RBs to be had I think he'd go even later.

 
I think the reason's Bells ypc is so bad is that his offense is starting a true freshman at QB and the opposing D's have nothing to do but try n stop him. MSU's passing offense is down right horrible. He's a throwback power-back, I stick by my 3rd round estimate, and in a year where there were more RBs to be had I think he'd go even later.
I think 3rd round is right were I put would put him also
 
The other thing to mention here is how bad the Big Ten actually is this year. It is pathetic watching some of these teams play. Any elite prospect would be able to rip through all these Ds.Michigan ST is a young team but they are really talented, WRs and QB are freshman. Sims is a monster TE prospect also. The have arguably the most talent on offense in the conference.ETA: I absolutely hate Michigan state... the hail mary game and the OT game were crushing losses... the scary part is they are beating Wisconsin now... whats it gonna be like in a few years
This is very easy to say. But when you watch the games, where are the yards he is leaving on the field? I wish someone kept track of advanced NCAA stats, so we could see how often he is hit at the LOS.
 
from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back. Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I suppose we shall have to wait and see sir :) :football:
I like LeVeon Bell. You don't have to run a 4.4 to be a factor at RB in the NFL(ask Doug Martin).
Bell doesn't have anywhere near the quickness or acceleration of Martin. He is more of a plodding power back, which is a dying breed in today's NFL.
Didn't say Bell=Martin.Just that running a 4.4 isn't a requirement for a RB to be successful.
 
The other thing to mention here is how bad the Big Ten actually is this year. It is pathetic watching some of these teams play. Any elite prospect would be able to rip through all these Ds.Michigan ST is a young team but they are really talented, WRs and QB are freshman. Sims is a monster TE prospect also. The have arguably the most talent on offense in the conference.ETA: I absolutely hate Michigan state... the hail mary game and the OT game were crushing losses... the scary part is they are beating Wisconsin now... whats it gonna be like in a few years
This is very easy to say. But when you watch the games, where are the yards he is leaving on the field? I wish someone kept track of advanced NCAA stats, so we could see how often he is hit at the LOS.
That would be amazing... someone notify ProFootballFocus!
 
That would be amazing... someone notify ProFootballFocus!
At least for the major players. I am tempted to do it myself, but am too lazy. There is a Youtube channel that has captured just about all of Bell's carries from the season, and put them in single videos, broken down by game. Might be interesting. But without doing that to a large sample, there would be no reference.
 
from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.

He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back.

Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.

Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I suppose we shall have to wait and see sir :) :football:
I like LeVeon Bell. You don't have to run a 4.4 to be a factor at RB in the NFL(ask Doug Martin).
The other thing to mention here is how bad the Big Ten actually is this year. It is pathetic watching some of these teams play.

Any elite prospect would be able to rip through all these Ds.

Michigan ST is a young team but they are really talented, WRs and QB are freshman. Sims is a monster TE prospect also.

The have arguably the most talent on offense in the conference.

ETA: I absolutely hate Michigan state... the hail mary game and the OT game were crushing losses... the scary part is they are beating Wisconsin now... whats it gonna be like in a few years
You're kidding with this right? Regardless of how good Mich St.'s WRs and TEs are, Andrew Maxwell (who is a junior not a freshman like you and someone else have claimed) is quite possibly the worst starting QB of any team in a BCS conference. He has a 54% CMP% and a YPA of 6.01, that's beyond terrible. He completed just 33% of his passes against Nebraska's (supposedly) weak defense this past week, for a point of reference. Say what you want about LeVeon Bell's NFL prospects, but what he's been able to do with Michigan State this year given their complete absence of a passing game is nothing short of fantastic.

 
from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.

He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back.

Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.

Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I suppose we shall have to wait and see sir :) :football:
I like LeVeon Bell. You don't have to run a 4.4 to be a factor at RB in the NFL(ask Doug Martin).
The other thing to mention here is how bad the Big Ten actually is this year. It is pathetic watching some of these teams play.

Any elite prospect would be able to rip through all these Ds.

Michigan ST is a young team but they are really talented, WRs and QB are freshman. Sims is a monster TE prospect also.

The have arguably the most talent on offense in the conference.

ETA: I absolutely hate Michigan state... the hail mary game and the OT game were crushing losses... the scary part is they are beating Wisconsin now... whats it gonna be like in a few years
You're kidding with this right? Regardless of how good Mich St.'s WRs and TEs are, Andrew Maxwell (who is a junior not a freshman like you and someone else have claimed) is quite possibly the worst starting QB of any team in a BCS conference. He has a 54% CMP% and a YPA of 6.01, that's beyond terrible. He completed just 33% of his passes against Nebraska's (supposedly) weak defense this past week, for a point of reference. Say what you want about LeVeon Bell's NFL prospects, but what he's been able to do with Michigan State this year given their complete absence of a passing game is nothing short of fantastic.
wow I though Maxwell was a freshmen, my bad. He hasnt played much if at all when Cousins was there

 
from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.

He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back.

Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.

Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I suppose we shall have to wait and see sir :) :football:
I like LeVeon Bell. You don't have to run a 4.4 to be a factor at RB in the NFL(ask Doug Martin).
The other thing to mention here is how bad the Big Ten actually is this year. It is pathetic watching some of these teams play.

Any elite prospect would be able to rip through all these Ds.

Michigan ST is a young team but they are really talented, WRs and QB are freshman. Sims is a monster TE prospect also.

The have arguably the most talent on offense in the conference.

ETA: I absolutely hate Michigan state... the hail mary game and the OT game were crushing losses... the scary part is they are beating Wisconsin now... whats it gonna be like in a few years
You're kidding with this right? Regardless of how good Mich St.'s WRs and TEs are, Andrew Maxwell (who is a junior not a freshman like you and someone else have claimed) is quite possibly the worst starting QB of any team in a BCS conference. He has a 54% CMP% and a YPA of 6.01, that's beyond terrible. He completed just 33% of his passes against Nebraska's (supposedly) weak defense this past week, for a point of reference. Say what you want about LeVeon Bell's NFL prospects, but what he's been able to do with Michigan State this year given their complete absence of a passing game is nothing short of fantastic.
wow I though Maxwell was a freshmen, my bad. He hasnt played much if at all when Cousins was there
He certainly plays like a true freshman so I can understand the confusion.
 
'Time Kibitzer said:
'bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
'Time Kibitzer said:
from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.

He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back.

Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.

Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I suppose we shall have to wait and see sir :) :football:
I like LeVeon Bell. You don't have to run a 4.4 to be a factor at RB in the NFL(ask Doug Martin).
The other thing to mention here is how bad the Big Ten actually is this year. It is pathetic watching some of these teams play.

Any elite prospect would be able to rip through all these Ds.

Michigan ST is a young team but they are really talented, WRs and QB are freshman. Sims is a monster TE prospect also.

The have arguably the most talent on offense in the conference.

ETA: I absolutely hate Michigan state... the hail mary game and the OT game were crushing losses... the scary part is they are beating Wisconsin now... whats it gonna be like in a few years
You're kidding with this right? Regardless of how good Mich St.'s WRs and TEs are, Andrew Maxwell (who is a junior not a freshman like you and someone else have claimed) is quite possibly the worst starting QB of any team in a BCS conference. He has a 54% CMP% and a YPA of 6.01, that's beyond terrible. He completed just 33% of his passes against Nebraska's (supposedly) weak defense this past week, for a point of reference. Say what you want about LeVeon Bell's NFL prospects, but what he's been able to do with Michigan State this year given their complete absence of a passing game is nothing short of fantastic.
wow I though Maxwell was a freshmen, my bad. He hasnt played much if at all when Cousins was there
He certainly plays like a true freshman so I can understand the confusion.
Wow, I don't know where I got that info, my apologies. I could have sworn he was a TRUE freshman. woops :bag:
 
so i dont watch college football so i dont what these next years backs looks like

how does last years class compare to 2013 rb class

from reading this richardson would still be the clear cut #1 rb

but how did martin,wilson,hillman compare to next years backs

 
so i dont watch college football so i dont what these next years backs looks likehow does last years class compare to 2013 rb classfrom reading this richardson would still be the clear cut #1 rb but how did martin,wilson,hillman compare to next years backs
2012 was light years better than 2013 for QB,RB, overall depth.The WRs of 2013 have a chance to be as good as 2012, but the 2012 crop is off to a slow start, which is common for WRs. there are no Julio Jones, AJ green, Trent richardsons or Andrew Luck RG3 types in 2013
 
from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back. Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I don't think Bell moves laterally well at all, he has subtle moves that work well against college athletes but I don't see that being successful in the NFL. If he is going to have a long NFL career in a lead role he needs to be one of the toughest SOB's I've ever seen. Otherwise, he's looking at a Peyton Hillis type of career, maybe a big year or two but complimentary roles otherwise and the beating he'll take in a feature role may limit his effectiveness in that role.I can't see myself being too excited about him unless he goes to a good team that doesn't have a receiving downs or goal line RB that wants one guy and only one guy for those roles - maybe Tennessee?
 
I think Lacy is a solid backup in the NFL, but that's it. Just isn't anything special about his game. He's not a difference maker in any way on the field, good player - good head for the game - plays hard, tough, and smart - just not a special talent. I like targeting him late day 2 or early day 3 on a team that needs a hammer, but that's about it.
Have to disagree here. He is very quick and agile for his size. I don't know that he is special, but this class might not offer a special back. I think the 1st is a stretch, but I think 2nd round sounds about right. And I think he is clearly talented enough to be a starter in the NFL.
I tend to agree with this. I didn't like Lacy entering the season, but he has looked decent enough this year. Not an incredible talent, but compact and powerful with just enough quickness and agility. I think he can be something like a Shonn Greene or Law Firm type of player in the NFL. Maybe a little better than that.
Well, I agree with the Greene and Law Firm comp's, haha!That's why I said better backup and not a starter, those guys are two of the worst starters in the league. They belong as backups.
 
The other thing to mention here is how bad the Big Ten actually is this year. It is pathetic watching some of these teams play. Any elite prospect would be able to rip through all these Ds.Michigan ST is a young team but they are really talented, WRs and QB are freshman. Sims is a monster TE prospect also. The have arguably the most talent on offense in the conference.ETA: I absolutely hate Michigan state... the hail mary game and the OT game were crushing losses... the scary part is they are beating Wisconsin now... whats it gonna be like in a few years
This is very easy to say. But when you watch the games, where are the yards he is leaving on the field? I wish someone kept track of advanced NCAA stats, so we could see how often he is hit at the LOS.
That would be amazing... someone notify ProFootballFocus!
Given the talent disparity from one conference to another I understand why they don't. It's not like the NFL in which you can reasonably expect that every player on the field is great, there are just some special players mixed in with those great ones. The sample size is more reliable. It wouldn't be in college, a SEC RB's yards after contact would be significantly lower than a similar talent in the Big 12.
 
I realize this isn't in the 2013 prospect area but i'd like some info if anyone has any.

What's happened to Kyle Prater and George Farmer?

-Both 5 star recruit WRs

-Both went to USC

-Both are barely doing anything because Woods/Lee are in the way

Are they injured? Busts? Developing? waiting for playing time? redshirted?

Thanks

ETA: I googled and found out Prater had some injuries at USC. Then transferred to Northwestern

 
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so i dont watch college football so i dont what these next years backs looks likehow does last years class compare to 2013 rb classfrom reading this richardson would still be the clear cut #1 rb but how did martin,wilson,hillman compare to next years backs
2012 was light years better than 2013 for QB,RB, overall depth.The WRs of 2013 have a chance to be as good as 2012, but the 2012 crop is off to a slow start, which is common for WRs. there are no Julio Jones, AJ green, Trent richardsons or Andrew Luck RG3 types in 2013
:goodposting: I think Geno has a chance to be a very good QB but he's not in sight of Luck and RG3. I think Blackmon is a better talent than Keenan Allen, my favorite WR from this class, but work ethic trumps all and Blackmon doesn't have it. I'd take Allen over the entire 2012 WR class, several other strong options too but some (i.e. the Tennessee guys) may stay at school. I think they should.Whoever ends up being at the top of the RB class will be behind Richardson and Martin. I think the depth is stronger than last year though.Eifert's better than every TE from last year, a lot better. All in all, a very under whelming class. I have stock piled three 2014 #1's so far and depending on where my 2013 #1 ends up I may move it too. It's an IDP league so if I have a shot at Te'o I may wait it out, but him, Eifert, Allen, and Geno are really the only prospects I want right now. The last two probably go top 5 in rookie drafts, so it just depends on the Notre Dame guys. We'll see, draft picks are most valuable right before the draft so I'll decide then.
 
I realize this isn't in the 2013 prospect area but i'd like some info if anyone has any.What's happened to Kyle Prater and George Farmer?-Both 5 star recruit WRs-Both went to USC-Both are barely doing anything because Woods/Lee are in the wayAre they injured? Busts? Developing? waiting for playing time? redshirted?ThanksETA: I googled and found out Prater had some injuries at USC. Then transferred to Northwestern
Last I heard Farmer had been switched to a different position. Maybe RB. He is not in the picture at WR.I think Prater plays at Northwestern now. Five star recruits are kind of like first round picks. Only about half of them end up being worth the hype.
 
I think Lacy is a solid backup in the NFL, but that's it. Just isn't anything special about his game. He's not a difference maker in any way on the field, good player - good head for the game - plays hard, tough, and smart - just not a special talent. I like targeting him late day 2 or early day 3 on a team that needs a hammer, but that's about it.
Have to disagree here. He is very quick and agile for his size. I don't know that he is special, but this class might not offer a special back. I think the 1st is a stretch, but I think 2nd round sounds about right. And I think he is clearly talented enough to be a starter in the NFL.
I tend to agree with this. I didn't like Lacy entering the season, but he has looked decent enough this year. Not an incredible talent, but compact and powerful with just enough quickness and agility. I think he can be something like a Shonn Greene or Law Firm type of player in the NFL. Maybe a little better than that.
Well, I agree with the Greene and Law Firm comp's, haha!That's why I said better backup and not a starter, those guys are two of the worst starters in the league. They belong as backups.
Lacy can probably be better than those guys.And the reason those guys are starting is because at any given time there aren't that many 220+ pound backs with good feet and hips in the league.
 
I think Lacy is a solid backup in the NFL, but that's it. Just isn't anything special about his game. He's not a difference maker in any way on the field, good player - good head for the game - plays hard, tough, and smart - just not a special talent. I like targeting him late day 2 or early day 3 on a team that needs a hammer, but that's about it.
Have to disagree here. He is very quick and agile for his size. I don't know that he is special, but this class might not offer a special back. I think the 1st is a stretch, but I think 2nd round sounds about right. And I think he is clearly talented enough to be a starter in the NFL.
I tend to agree with this. I didn't like Lacy entering the season, but he has looked decent enough this year. Not an incredible talent, but compact and powerful with just enough quickness and agility. I think he can be something like a Shonn Greene or Law Firm type of player in the NFL. Maybe a little better than that.
Well, I agree with the Greene and Law Firm comp's, haha!That's why I said better backup and not a starter, those guys are two of the worst starters in the league. They belong as backups.
Lacy can probably be better than those guys.And the reason those guys are starting is because at any given time there aren't that many 220+ pound backs with good feet and hips in the league.
I've never been even somewhat excited watching BJGE or Greene. Both very underwhelming. Lacy might be a similar size but he's got more ability than either player. Certainly has starter potential if he combines well and lands nicely.
 
I think Lacy is a solid backup in the NFL, but that's it. Just isn't anything special about his game. He's not a difference maker in any way on the field, good player - good head for the game - plays hard, tough, and smart - just not a special talent. I like targeting him late day 2 or early day 3 on a team that needs a hammer, but that's about it.
Have to disagree here. He is very quick and agile for his size. I don't know that he is special, but this class might not offer a special back. I think the 1st is a stretch, but I think 2nd round sounds about right. And I think he is clearly talented enough to be a starter in the NFL.
I tend to agree with this. I didn't like Lacy entering the season, but he has looked decent enough this year. Not an incredible talent, but compact and powerful with just enough quickness and agility. I think he can be something like a Shonn Greene or Law Firm type of player in the NFL. Maybe a little better than that.
Well, I agree with the Greene and Law Firm comp's, haha!That's why I said better backup and not a starter, those guys are two of the worst starters in the league. They belong as backups.
Lacy can probably be better than those guys.And the reason those guys are starting is because at any given time there aren't that many 220+ pound backs with good feet and hips in the league.
He's more explosive than either of them. I actually think his 40 time will surprise some. He carries his weight well and runs behind his pads. Lacy in the 2nd to a team situation like Pitt/Cincy/Indy and I think we're looking at a top 3-5 standard pick, and 5-6 PPR pick.
 
from watching the big ten a lot this year... I think the combine will expose him big time. He is just not that impressive, certainly has power but vision and speed are very limited.He gets so many carries that his stats look impressive, but he only racks up good numbers against horrible teams.
He is the lone weapon on a bad team - his numbers are going to suffer because of it. The fact that he can take on so much, and keep MSU in games they would otherwise be blown out of, says a lot. MSU doens't get cute - they can't. It's Bell, Bell, and more Bell. And he produces.I don't know what his 40 time is, but the guy is very clearly athletic. He is not going to run away from people, and maybe that will scare some teams, but I do see workhorse, potential 3 down back. Also question your vision statement. I don't see it as lacking at all. And the Brandon Jacobs part (who was a good starting RB for a couple years). Bell is an athlete and not simply power. He doesn't have homerun speed, but he can make people miss, as well as run them over. He jumps over them from time to time too. His feet are much better than Jacobs'.Granted, if you are talking about Jacobs at Auburn or from clips is non-FBS days - I wasn't following him then.
I suppose we shall have to wait and see sir :) :football:
I like LeVeon Bell. You don't have to run a 4.4 to be a factor at RB in the NFL(ask Doug Martin).
I really see a combo of Issac Redman and Brandon Jacobs... somewhere inbetween. It's not a flashy comp that people who like him are going to like, but what qualities does he really have that are going to set him apart at the next level?
I don't see a great deal of upside, but I like that he catches a lot of passes (35 last year and 29 so far this year). He looks like a poor man's Bettis.
 
I don't see a great deal of upside, but I like that he catches a lot of passes (35 last year and 29 so far this year). He looks like a poor man's Bettis.
I see more Eddie George than any of the names being thrown around, personally. Slower and bigger. But he just doesn't run like a bruiser like jacobs/Bettis/Hills.
 
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I think Lacy is a solid backup in the NFL, but that's it. Just isn't anything special about his game. He's not a difference maker in any way on the field, good player - good head for the game - plays hard, tough, and smart - just not a special talent. I like targeting him late day 2 or early day 3 on a team that needs a hammer, but that's about it.
Have to disagree here. He is very quick and agile for his size. I don't know that he is special, but this class might not offer a special back. I think the 1st is a stretch, but I think 2nd round sounds about right. And I think he is clearly talented enough to be a starter in the NFL.
I tend to agree with this. I didn't like Lacy entering the season, but he has looked decent enough this year. Not an incredible talent, but compact and powerful with just enough quickness and agility. I think he can be something like a Shonn Greene or Law Firm type of player in the NFL. Maybe a little better than that.
Well, I agree with the Greene and Law Firm comp's, haha!That's why I said better backup and not a starter, those guys are two of the worst starters in the league. They belong as backups.
Lacy can probably be better than those guys.And the reason those guys are starting is because at any given time there aren't that many 220+ pound backs with good feet and hips in the league.
He's more explosive than either of them. I actually think his 40 time will surprise some. He carries his weight well and runs behind his pads. Lacy in the 2nd to a team situation like Pitt/Cincy/Indy and I think we're looking at a top 3-5 standard pick, and 5-6 PPR pick.
Explosion isn't the word I'd use, but I'd also be very surprised if his speed (short or long) times well. Where he has guys like Green-Ellis and Greene beaten is his wiggle. He moves well laterally, those guys don't. I think Ingram's better and given what I just got for him, probably cheaper. I know I said I was going to wait a couple more weeks before pitching an offer for him, but his owner came knocking so I tossed the idea out there. Got Ingram for a young LB3 KJ Wright and the cost was a draft pick downgrade from 3 to 5. I'm very comfortable with that risk/reward.
 

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