Ebola (1 Viewer)

[MattFancy]

man you guys complain about everything.

Post #1

Doctors don't know what they are talking about

Post #2

Thanks Obama for doing nothing

Post #3

Obama appointed a Czar we don't need a Czar. We need to control our Southern border.

Post #4

How can they put a non Dr in charge of coordinating a national response?

The reality is, Ebola is probably not going to practically disable the country from a standpoint of cases.

But it is a serious disease that, in my opinion, is best managed at certain choke points to help containment. It seems to have been a more effective means of management historically than treatment, which is at best a 50/50 bet for the individuals carrying this.

However, the FEAR of Ebola is a significant threat that could within, ten days, from this day, disable this country for days or weeks if we get enough cases to spring up. That is a significant threat to our economy and our day to day life and structure.

So were I looking to inspire confidence in people, this guy delievers exactly, zero.

The vice presidential press secretary? And the guy so good in that role, he got to stay there for three presidents? This is like an NFL team hiring a coach who was unbeaten as a JV coach for ten years.

I was willing to be patient, and I would say prior to.. September, if you were polling me, I would say I am very confident in the abilities and judgement of the CDC. My faith in them is RAPIDLY dwindling, and I suspect I'm not alone. And if you tell me I'm crazy, please tell me what in their workflow or their info-flow to the public and industry professionals on this matter, is supposed to invite confidence.

This appointee didn't have to be a doctor, didn't have to be a epidemiologist but they needed to inspire confidence. He does not.

I give Obama a D on the handling of Ebola so far. Not because he is doing anything wrong, because I personally don't the policies around Ebola have been pretty spot on.

However, I agree with your last line but more so would apply it to Obama. The country is in a panic. I have spent most of the thread mocking those in a panic, but the president's job is to be confident and calm down the country. He has, so far, failed in that.

Unfortunately, I don;t think it matters what Obama says at this point. If he came out and said today that Ebola isn't a big threat, people would say he's lying and it's a bigger problem than he wants to admit. If he came out today and said Ebola is a serious threat to our country and needs to be taken seriously, everyone would go into even more of a mass panic and #### would hit the fan. He's pretty much in a no win situation.

Personally, I'm not the least bit worried about Ebola. I'm more worried about catching the flu than Ebola. Don't more people die a year from the flu than Ebola? Are we imposing travel restrictions on those people?

are you elderly or an infant? That is the majority of your flu deaths in America, lets compare apples to apples a bit.

Have you or someone you know been to West Africa?

 

[shader]

man you guys complain about everything.

Post #1

Doctors don't know what they are talking about

Post #2

Thanks Obama for doing nothing

Post #3

Obama appointed a Czar we don't need a Czar. We need to control our Southern border.

Post #4

How can they put a non Dr in charge of coordinating a national response?

The reality is, Ebola is probably not going to practically disable the country from a standpoint of cases.

But it is a serious disease that, in my opinion, is best managed at certain choke points to help containment. It seems to have been a more effective means of management historically than treatment, which is at best a 50/50 bet for the individuals carrying this.

However, the FEAR of Ebola is a significant threat that could within, ten days, from this day, disable this country for days or weeks if we get enough cases to spring up. That is a significant threat to our economy and our day to day life and structure.

So were I looking to inspire confidence in people, this guy delievers exactly, zero.

The vice presidential press secretary? And the guy so good in that role, he got to stay there for three presidents? This is like an NFL team hiring a coach who was unbeaten as a JV coach for ten years.

I was willing to be patient, and I would say prior to.. September, if you were polling me, I would say I am very confident in the abilities and judgement of the CDC. My faith in them is RAPIDLY dwindling, and I suspect I'm not alone. And if you tell me I'm crazy, please tell me what in their workflow or their info-flow to the public and industry professionals on this matter, is supposed to invite confidence.

This appointee didn't have to be a doctor, didn't have to be a epidemiologist but they needed to inspire confidence. He does not.

I give Obama a D on the handling of Ebola so far. Not because he is doing anything wrong, because I personally don't the policies around Ebola have been pretty spot on.

However, I agree with your last line but more so would apply it to Obama. The country is in a panic. I have spent most of the thread mocking those in a panic, but the president's job is to be confident and calm down the country. He has, so far, failed in that.

Unfortunately, I don;t think it matters what Obama says at this point. If he came out and said today that Ebola isn't a big threat, people would say he's lying and it's a bigger problem than he wants to admit. If he came out today and said Ebola is a serious threat to our country and needs to be taken seriously, everyone would go into even more of a mass panic and #### would hit the fan. He's pretty much in a no win situation.

Personally, I'm not the least bit worried about Ebola. I'm more worried about catching the flu than Ebola. Don't more people die a year from the flu than Ebola? Are we imposing travel restrictions on those people?

Irrelevant

 

[Niles Standish]

Thank you Doub B for the post on the travel ban. It seems it would be difficult to implement without agreements with other countries, and could be bad for the airline industry. We do not know the different kinds of traffic to and from W. Africa today to understand the possible impact.

What's interesting to me is that a lot of people think Duncan got into the U.S. because there were no kind of travel restrictions in place. However, there were travel restrictions in place, imposed by the Liberian government. Trouble was, it relied on the honor system -- Duncan needed only to affirm on a written form that he had not been in contact with an Ebola patient. Duncan fudged the form, and got his seat on a plane to Brussels.

Things may be different in EU airports now -- don't know -- but at the time, the Brussels airport was not on any kind of alert. Duncan's easy access to the U.S. via air travel was thus assured.

Of the 10's of thousands of things the government regulates, restricting travelers from Nigeria from entering the country is probably the easiest. This is a piece of cake compared to any attempt at regulating Guns, Drugs, Tobacco, Alcohol, or whatever. We have the infrastructure in place, just use it. This is a silly argument. It may not be 100%, but it would be pretty close. A few Nigerians sneaking in is much safer than a thousand getting in no matter what kind of screening or tracking is done. Asking a few questions on whether they have fever or if they had any exposure to Ebola is a waste of time.

Ebola is non-existant in Nigeria. I think WHO is supposed to announce it's fully stamped out today. IMO that's not a country to worry about in the least today (who knows a week from now or a month from now). Texas is more dangerous. Hell, I'd be more worried about travelers from Ohio than Nigeria.

Now obviously it's different if you're talking about one of the 3 countries with an outbreak.

 

[MattFancy]

man you guys complain about everything.

Post #1

Doctors don't know what they are talking about

Post #2

Thanks Obama for doing nothing

Post #3

Obama appointed a Czar we don't need a Czar. We need to control our Southern border.

Post #4

How can they put a non Dr in charge of coordinating a national response?

The reality is, Ebola is probably not going to practically disable the country from a standpoint of cases.

But it is a serious disease that, in my opinion, is best managed at certain choke points to help containment. It seems to have been a more effective means of management historically than treatment, which is at best a 50/50 bet for the individuals carrying this.

However, the FEAR of Ebola is a significant threat that could within, ten days, from this day, disable this country for days or weeks if we get enough cases to spring up. That is a significant threat to our economy and our day to day life and structure.

So were I looking to inspire confidence in people, this guy delievers exactly, zero.

The vice presidential press secretary? And the guy so good in that role, he got to stay there for three presidents? This is like an NFL team hiring a coach who was unbeaten as a JV coach for ten years.

I was willing to be patient, and I would say prior to.. September, if you were polling me, I would say I am very confident in the abilities and judgement of the CDC. My faith in them is RAPIDLY dwindling, and I suspect I'm not alone. And if you tell me I'm crazy, please tell me what in their workflow or their info-flow to the public and industry professionals on this matter, is supposed to invite confidence.

This appointee didn't have to be a doctor, didn't have to be a epidemiologist but they needed to inspire confidence. He does not.

I give Obama a D on the handling of Ebola so far. Not because he is doing anything wrong, because I personally don't the policies around Ebola have been pretty spot on.

However, I agree with your last line but more so would apply it to Obama. The country is in a panic. I have spent most of the thread mocking those in a panic, but the president's job is to be confident and calm down the country. He has, so far, failed in that.

Unfortunately, I don;t think it matters what Obama says at this point. If he came out and said today that Ebola isn't a big threat, people would say he's lying and it's a bigger problem than he wants to admit. If he came out today and said Ebola is a serious threat to our country and needs to be taken seriously, everyone would go into even more of a mass panic and #### would hit the fan. He's pretty much in a no win situation.

Personally, I'm not the least bit worried about Ebola. I'm more worried about catching the flu than Ebola. Don't more people die a year from the flu than Ebola? Are we imposing travel restrictions on those people?

Irrelevant

How so? You're more likely to catch the flu than Ebola. There's been what, 3 or 4 confirmed cases of Ebola in the US.

 

[Doug B]

Of the 10's of thousands of things the government regulates, restricting travelers from Nigeria from entering the country is probably the easiest. This is a piece of cake compared to any attempt at regulating Guns, Drugs, Tobacco, Alcohol, or whatever. We have the infrastructure in place, just use it. This is a silly argument. It may not be 100%, but it would be pretty close. A few Nigerians sneaking in is much safer than a thousand getting in no matter what kind of screening or tracking is done. Asking a few questions on whether they have fever or if they had any exposure to Ebola is a waste of time.

Nigeria is not one of the "Ebola zone" countries. They got a handful of cases in the same way the U.S. did -- through a small number of travelers -- but they are Ebola-free now (WHO declaration official in a few days per link).

 

[jon_mx]

Thank you Doub B for the post on the travel ban. It seems it would be difficult to implement without agreements with other countries, and could be bad for the airline industry. We do not know the different kinds of traffic to and from W. Africa today to understand the possible impact.

What's interesting to me is that a lot of people think Duncan got into the U.S. because there were no kind of travel restrictions in place. However, there were travel restrictions in place, imposed by the Liberian government. Trouble was, it relied on the honor system -- Duncan needed only to affirm on a written form that he had not been in contact with an Ebola patient. Duncan fudged the form, and got his seat on a plane to Brussels.

Things may be different in EU airports now -- don't know -- but at the time, the Brussels airport was not on any kind of alert. Duncan's easy access to the U.S. via air travel was thus assured.

Of the 10's of thousands of things the government regulates, restricting travelers from Nigeria from entering the country is probably the easiest. This is a piece of cake compared to any attempt at regulating Guns, Drugs, Tobacco, Alcohol, or whatever. We have the infrastructure in place, just use it. This is a silly argument. It may not be 100%, but it would be pretty close. A few Nigerians sneaking in is much safer than a thousand getting in no matter what kind of screening or tracking is done. Asking a few questions on whether they have fever or if they had any exposure to Ebola is a waste of time.

Ebola is non-existant in Nigeria. I think WHO is supposed to announce it's fully stamped out today. IMO that's not a country to worry about in the least today (who knows a week from now or a month from now). Texas is more dangerous. Hell, I'd be more worried about travelers from Ohio than Nigeria.

Now obviously it's different if you're talking about one of the 3 countries with an outbreak.

Of course. I am getting my African nations confused. Nigeria is where they just had the scare on the flight from JFK, but it appears to have been a false alarm.

 

[Smack Tripper]

man you guys complain about everything.

Post #1

Doctors don't know what they are talking about

Post #2

Thanks Obama for doing nothing

Post #3

Obama appointed a Czar we don't need a Czar. We need to control our Southern border.

Post #4

How can they put a non Dr in charge of coordinating a national response?

The reality is, Ebola is probably not going to practically disable the country from a standpoint of cases.

But it is a serious disease that, in my opinion, is best managed at certain choke points to help containment. It seems to have been a more effective means of management historically than treatment, which is at best a 50/50 bet for the individuals carrying this.

However, the FEAR of Ebola is a significant threat that could within, ten days, from this day, disable this country for days or weeks if we get enough cases to spring up. That is a significant threat to our economy and our day to day life and structure.

So were I looking to inspire confidence in people, this guy delievers exactly, zero.

The vice presidential press secretary? And the guy so good in that role, he got to stay there for three presidents? This is like an NFL team hiring a coach who was unbeaten as a JV coach for ten years.

I was willing to be patient, and I would say prior to.. September, if you were polling me, I would say I am very confident in the abilities and judgement of the CDC. My faith in them is RAPIDLY dwindling, and I suspect I'm not alone. And if you tell me I'm crazy, please tell me what in their workflow or their info-flow to the public and industry professionals on this matter, is supposed to invite confidence.

This appointee didn't have to be a doctor, didn't have to be a epidemiologist but they needed to inspire confidence. He does not.

I give Obama a D on the handling of Ebola so far. Not because he is doing anything wrong, because I personally don't the policies around Ebola have been pretty spot on.

However, I agree with your last line but more so would apply it to Obama. The country is in a panic. I have spent most of the thread mocking those in a panic, but the president's job is to be confident and calm down the country. He has, so far, failed in that.

Unfortunately, I don;t think it matters what Obama says at this point. If he came out and said today that Ebola isn't a big threat, people would say he's lying and it's a bigger problem than he wants to admit. If he came out today and said Ebola is a serious threat to our country and needs to be taken seriously, everyone would go into even more of a mass panic and #### would hit the fan. He's pretty much in a no win situation.

Personally, I'm not the least bit worried about Ebola. I'm more worried about catching the flu than Ebola. Don't more people die a year from the flu than Ebola? Are we imposing travel restrictions on those people?

are you elderly or an infant? That is the majority of your flu deaths in America, lets compare apples to apples a bit.

Have you or someone you know been to West Africa?

not intimately, but I work in NYC, so chances are I walk by several each day

 

[Doug B]

How so? You're more likely to catch the flu than Ebola. There's been what, 3 or 4 confirmed cases of Ebola in the US.

I'm not sure how many Ebola patients are currently bein treated in the U.S. There's NIna Pham, Amber Vinson, and another patient flown to Omaha from Africa a few weeks ago. Duncan passed away ... I guess he's be four.

The only two confirmed Ebola contractions to date on U.S. soil are Pham and Vinson.

 

[GroveDiesel]

According to Eugene Robinson's 10/16 column, the whole point of banning flights from Ebola-stricken West African countries is moot:

Let’s make a deal: We’ll all promise not to panic about Ebola if the experts — especially those at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — agree to get their stories straight.

They should begin by giving a better explanation of why they have concluded it would be wrong to “stop the flights” arriving from the Ebola “hot zone,” beginning with the fact that there are no such flights: There is no direct commercial air service between the countries at the epicenter of the outbreak — Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea — and the United States.

Travelers from those countries must make one or more intermediate stops to get here, meaning that any travel ban would have to target individuals based on nationality or recent visits to the affected countries. Experts should explain why this idea is neither crazy nor politically incorrect but simply, in their professional opinion, inadvisable.

The risk that limiting travel to and from West Africa would hamper efforts to control the outbreak is real. Saying that charter flights could be arranged for aid workers ignores the necessarily decentralized and ad hoc nature of responses to this kind of emergency. Doctors, nurses and other volunteers need to be able to go into a hot zone when they are ready, not when seats happen to open up on a charter.

They also need to know beforehand that they will be able to rotate out of the zone in a timely fashion. There is an obvious role that military or charter aircraft can play in evacuating aid workers who have been in close contact with Ebola patients. For those with less risk of exposure — those who, say, could advise health officials in affected countries but not actually treat victims of the disease — travel restrictions would serve no purpose except to make them think twice about going.

With polls showing majority support for some kind of travel ban, CDC Director Tom Frieden and others should not just state their position on the issue but show a willingness to engage with those who disagree. Experts should acknowledge that restrictions might help keep out the Ebola virus in the short run — but would, in their view, put Americans more at risk in the long run.

This argument is completely flawed. Most people aren't calling for banning flights, they're calling for banning visas to folks from those countries. That would have kept Duncan out.

And even a travel ban isn't as difficult as some of you are making it out to be. You don't just start hopping on planes traveling different places. You have stamped passports, computerized itineraries, etc. it's really not that difficult.

 

[TheIronSheik]

How many cases right now doesn't really matter. If all of a sudden 4 people showed up with smallpox in Texas, it would be a pretty big deal.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Someone send me a PM when we reach the point in the thread where Timmy shoehorns in his thoughts on immigration and / or blames the Tea Party for the ebola.

Didn't we cover the Tea party and the sequester a few pages ago?

It needs to be stressed. Both the CDC and the NIH received cuts in spending that don't help in situations like this. This Ebola situation is a clear example, IMO, of the Tea Party philosophy of the role and size of government being on trial- and found wanting. We need a stronger CDC, not a weaker one.

I see you're still ignoring the tens of millions of dollars wasted in ridiculous studies that had nothing to do with healthcare along with the GAO report that determined there is a huge amount of waste in the CDC and DIH and that they could easily sustain cuts and still carry out their core duties.So, basically, you're choosing to ignore the evidence and outside independent experts who say the CDC is at fault because they've mismanaged everything, and instead are choosing to believe the guy who is ultimately responsible for that mismanagement and wants more money to mismanage.

Got it.

The CDC failure here is actually a perfect illustration of the Tea Party's argument that big government agencies are wasteful and become ineffective because of their bloated nature.

I mean, seriously, how is it that there were no clear protocols or plans in place? How much would it cost to do that? They've been in incompetent on this from the very beginning.

 

[The Z Machine]

My wife leaves for a 12 day trip to Ghana tomorrow afternoon. She's flying through JFK and then on to Accra. Wish her luck!

How would you feel if tomorrow they refused re-entry, for 45 days, for anyone that recently traveled to Africa?

I would be pretty upset.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Fear mongers in this thread are disgraceful.

 

[Jim11]

Someone send me a PM when we reach the point in the thread where Timmy shoehorns in his thoughts on immigration and / or blames the Tea Party for the ebola.

Didn't we cover the Tea party and the sequester a few pages ago?

It needs to be stressed. Both the CDC and the NIH received cuts in spending that don't help in situations like this. This Ebola situation is a clear example, IMO, of the Tea Party philosophy of the role and size of government being on trial- and found wanting. We need a stronger CDC, not a weaker one.

MORE GOVERNMENT; it's the answer to everything.

 

[Jayrod]

Fear mongers in this thread are disgraceful.

Your anti-mongering is disgraceful.

 

[shader]

man you guys complain about everything.

Post #1

Doctors don't know what they are talking about

Post #2

Thanks Obama for doing nothing

Post #3

Obama appointed a Czar we don't need a Czar. We need to control our Southern border.

Post #4

How can they put a non Dr in charge of coordinating a national response?

The reality is, Ebola is probably not going to practically disable the country from a standpoint of cases.

But it is a serious disease that, in my opinion, is best managed at certain choke points to help containment. It seems to have been a more effective means of management historically than treatment, which is at best a 50/50 bet for the individuals carrying this.

However, the FEAR of Ebola is a significant threat that could within, ten days, from this day, disable this country for days or weeks if we get enough cases to spring up. That is a significant threat to our economy and our day to day life and structure.

So were I looking to inspire confidence in people, this guy delievers exactly, zero.

The vice presidential press secretary? And the guy so good in that role, he got to stay there for three presidents? This is like an NFL team hiring a coach who was unbeaten as a JV coach for ten years.

I was willing to be patient, and I would say prior to.. September, if you were polling me, I would say I am very confident in the abilities and judgement of the CDC. My faith in them is RAPIDLY dwindling, and I suspect I'm not alone. And if you tell me I'm crazy, please tell me what in their workflow or their info-flow to the public and industry professionals on this matter, is supposed to invite confidence.

This appointee didn't have to be a doctor, didn't have to be a epidemiologist but they needed to inspire confidence. He does not.

I give Obama a D on the handling of Ebola so far. Not because he is doing anything wrong, because I personally don't the policies around Ebola have been pretty spot on.

However, I agree with your last line but more so would apply it to Obama. The country is in a panic. I have spent most of the thread mocking those in a panic, but the president's job is to be confident and calm down the country. He has, so far, failed in that.

Unfortunately, I don;t think it matters what Obama says at this point. If he came out and said today that Ebola isn't a big threat, people would say he's lying and it's a bigger problem than he wants to admit. If he came out today and said Ebola is a serious threat to our country and needs to be taken seriously, everyone would go into even more of a mass panic and #### would hit the fan. He's pretty much in a no win situation.

Personally, I'm not the least bit worried about Ebola. I'm more worried about catching the flu than Ebola. Don't more people die a year from the flu than Ebola? Are we imposing travel restrictions on those people?

Irrelevant

How so? You're more likely to catch the flu than Ebola. There's been what, 3 or 4 confirmed cases of Ebola in the US.

If you don't get it, forget it.

 

[shader]

How many cases right now doesn't really matter. If all of a sudden 4 people showed up with smallpox in Texas, it would be a pretty big deal.

See MattFancy, he gets it.

 

[shader]

Fear mongers in this thread are disgraceful.

I assume you think that the UN, CDC, WHO, Obama, Ebola Czar are disgraceful too, right?

 

[Tom Servo]

I respect and understand the need to limit panic, and maybe in the early days, its wait and see. But trust is like cash in a casino, easy to burn and hard to get back. Your trust and faith in the machine has to be everything. There are cracks in that dam, and I wanted to see a patch so strong I could believe in it.

When your leading domestic health agency is putting out incorrect information, thats one thing and almost excusable. To see CONFLICTING information really makes you think they don't know what the hell they are doing.

This whole scenario may be the ultimate chicken little in America. In a culture of fear, from nightly news asking CAN YOUR DISH DETERGENT KILL? WE'LL TELL YOU ABOUT IT to the conspirateria on the net, here is a situation where we really should say, hey wait a minute and maybe really question some leadership, that message has been neutured by the din of a fatigued public.

So when the CDC DOES know something worth sharing, people are less likely to listen up for the public good.

There's a lot of good stuff in this post.

 

[Scoresman]

Someone send me a PM when we reach the point in the thread where Timmy shoehorns in his thoughts on immigration and / or blames the Tea Party for the ebola.

Didn't we cover the Tea party and the sequester a few pages ago?

It needs to be stressed. Both the CDC and the NIH received cuts in spending that don't help in situations like this. This Ebola situation is a clear example, IMO, of the Tea Party philosophy of the role and size of government being on trial- and found wanting. We need a stronger CDC, not a weaker one.

MORE GOVERNMENT; it's the answer to everything.

we'd rather have more jims. 11 is not enough.

 

[3C's]

Someone send me a PM when we reach the point in the thread where Timmy shoehorns in his thoughts on immigration and / or blames the Tea Party for the ebola.

Didn't we cover the Tea party and the sequester a few pages ago?

It needs to be stressed. Both the CDC and the NIH received cuts in spending that don't help in situations like this. This Ebola situation is a clear example, IMO, of the Tea Party philosophy of the role and size of government being on trial- and found wanting. We need a stronger CDC, not a weaker one.

MORE GOVERNMENT; it's the answer to everything.

we'd rather have more jims. 11 is not enough.

I disagree

 

[HellToupee]

Islamic burial rituals in west africa



wtf no wonder ebola is spreading there

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

So one of the nurses went on a Carnival Cruise? What did they all have vacations lined up just in case it might be their last?

I say sink the entire ship, that'll learn'em.

 

[Fennis]

How so? You're more likely to catch the flu than Ebola. There's been what, 3 or 4 confirmed cases of Ebola in the US.

I'm not sure how many Ebola patients are currently bein treated in the U.S. There's NIna Pham, Amber Vinson, and another patient flown to Omaha from Africa a few weeks ago. Duncan passed away ... I guess he's be four.

The only two confirmed Ebola contractions to date on U.S. soil are Pham and Vinson.

There were 3 aid workers who were cured, 2 at Emory and 1 in Nebraska.

Currently under treatment are two nurses who were infected by Duncan (who died). Also under treatment in Nebraska is the cameraman who came back from Liberia that half the thread wanted to leave in Africa to die.

Current mortality rate of Americans treated in US - 0%.

Current mortality rate of all treated in US - 14%

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Someone send me a PM when we reach the point in the thread where Timmy shoehorns in his thoughts on immigration and / or blames the Tea Party for the ebola.

Already past that into world war two analogies.

 

[HellToupee]

So one of the nurses went on a Carnival Cruise? What did they all have vacations lined up just in case it might be their last?

I say sink the entire ship, that'll learn'em.

they are taking her off the Flying Dutchman

 

[Doug B]

Current mortality rate of Americans treated in US - 0%.

Current mortality rate of all treated in US - 14%

This is something I've been wondering about -- does Ebola "naturally" have a death rate of 50%-90% no matter what measures are taken, or can Western medicine knock it down significantly?

I am also curious about the blood transfusions from Kent Brantly -- what's that do, get Ebola antibodies into the patients' bloodstream?

 

[Apple Jack]

Have to appreciate the fact that this is happening just as we get into flu season. Wingnuts are going to spin off the Earth.

 

[Fennis]

Current mortality rate of Americans treated in US - 0%.

Current mortality rate of all treated in US - 14%

This is something I've been wondering about -- does Ebola "naturally" have a death rate of 50%-90% no matter what measures are taken, or can Western medicine knock it down significantly?

I am also curious about the blood transfusions from Kent Brantly -- what's that do, get Ebola antibodies into the patients' bloodstream?

At this point the treatment in the US is mostly symptom management. I think keeping fluids in these patients that have severe diarrhea helps a lot. I know diarrhea kills like 1million + in Africa a year. US treatment also manages the pain, pain and shock kills a large number of people who do not have access to pain medicines.

My understanding is the blood transfusion is how they would get antibodies to people before antibiotics existed. There isn't studies that indicates it works, but they know it doesn't hurt, and I think anecdotically they think it is making a difference.

 

[Doug B]

At this point the treatment in the US is mostly symptom management. I think keeping fluids in these patients that have severe diarrhea helps a lot. I know diarrhea kills like 1million + in Africa a year. US treatment also manages the pain, pain and shock kills a large number of people who do not have access to pain medicines.

Good points. Taking care of the fundamentals ... it's easy to forget how much of a difference that makes.

I know people hate comparing the current Ebola events to outbreaks of other illnesses ... but on the mortality issue specifically, Ebola reminds me of the early days of the swine flu. The mortality rate in the initial epicenter, in rural Mexico, was very high and caused even seasoned doctors to consider it something new and dangerous. When patients started getting swine flu in the U.S., and being treated with modern medicine, it was revealed that swine flu was "merely" a strain of familiar influenza. My then 5-year-old son was diagosed with the dread swine flu ... he only missed a few days of school, and was spunky as ever when home. Fever was't even very high.

I fully understand that contraction of Ebola is radically different -- I'm not making that comparison. My comparison is on the report mortality rates at the original epicenters of the respective outbreaks, and whether or not Western medicine can change the numbers.

 

[Doug B]

Fennis (or matsuki or anyone who may know): I know that the internal bleeding caused by hemmorhagic fevers (e.g. Ebola) is caused by clotting in the small capillaries. Bloods can't flow, it builds up then bursts through the thing capillary walls.

Do you all know if anti-coagulants are being used in Ebola treatment? If so, and if they're having an effect, it reduces the severity of Ebola markedly.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

How so? You're more likely to catch the flu than Ebola. There's been what, 3 or 4 confirmed cases of Ebola in the US.

I'm not sure how many Ebola patients are currently bein treated in the U.S. There's NIna Pham, Amber Vinson, and another patient flown to Omaha from Africa a few weeks ago. Duncan passed away ... I guess he's be four.

The only two confirmed Ebola contractions to date on U.S. soil are Pham and Vinson.

Here is the run down: http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/17/us/ebola-us-list/

 

[HellToupee]

Why is Frontier Air tracking down all the passengers that flew after the infected nurse?

 

[Doug B]

Why is Frontier Air tracking down all the passengers that flew after the infected nurse?

Abundance of caution. Probably doesn't hurt to give these folks a heads up so they can self-monitor.

Beyond that, I feel confident that all those folks are completely in the clear. For what my confidence in the matter is worth

 

[TheIronSheik]

Good to see the FFA has figured out this whole Ebola thing. Has anyone emailed the CDC our findings yet? Why drag this thing out any longer?

 

[Apple Jack]

WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!

Some of us sooner than others.

 

[Doug B]

My understanding is the blood transfusion is how they would get antibodies to people before antibiotics existed. There isn't studies that indicates it works, but they know it doesn't hurt, and I think anecdotically they think it is making a difference.

You're spot on -- Washington Post article on this specific Ebola treatment:

The decades-old treatment that may save a young Dallas nurse infected with Ebola

In late July, when it looked like Dr. Kent Brantly wasn’t going to make it, a small news item escaped Liberia. It spoke of Brantly’s treatment – not of the Ebola vaccine, Zmapp, which Brantly later got. But of a blood transfusion. He had “received a unit of blood from a 14-year-old boy who had survived Ebola because of Dr. Brantly’s care,” the missive said.

Now months later, Brantly, who has since recovered from his battle with the virus, has passed on the favor. A 26-year-old Dallas nurse named Nina Pham, who contracted the illness while treating the United States’ first Ebola patient, has received Brantly’s blood. It’s not the first time it has been used to treat Ebola patients. Recovered Ebola victim Richard Sacra got it, as well as U.S. journalist Ashoka Mukpo, who last night said he’s on the mend.

Injecting the blood of a patient such as Brantly, who has recovered from Ebola and developed certain antibodies, is a decades-old but promising method of treatment that, academics and health officials agree, could be one of the best means to fight Ebola. Called a convalescent serum, it might also save Pham, an alum of Texas Christian University.

“Convalescent serum is high on our list of potential therapies and has been used in other outbreaks,” a WHO spokesman told Science magazine in August. “There is a long history of its use, so lots of experience of what needs to be done, what norms and standards need to be met.”

The treatment, in fact, is nearly as old as the disease itself. Peter Piot of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, who discovered Ebola in 1976 in Zaire, said the idea even back then was promising. “We had only one possible treatment option in the form of serum from convalescents who had very high levels of antibodies,” he explained to Science. The blood was later used to treat a researcher in Britain who infected himself while drawing blood from an Ebola-infected guinea pig. He survived.

There's more in the article, including potential pitfalls of concvalescent serum and the difficulties thus far of studying the efficacy of this treatment in the field (small sample size being a big one). Still, the article is promising IMHO.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Why is Frontier Air tracking down all the passengers that flew after the infected nurse?

Ham threatened to call the FBI

 

[Doug B]

Good to see the FFA has figured out this whole Ebola thing. Has anyone emailed the CDC our findings yet? Why drag this thing out any longer?

Mostly what's going on in this thread is researching what information is already out there for public consumption, and examining it critically. Beyond that, some opinions are being offered -- some more informed that others and some more hopeful than others.

 

[Apple Jack]

Never a bad idea to do a hazmat sweep of the entire Frontier fleet.

 

[Osaurus]

Never a bad idea to do a hazmat sweep of the entire Frontier fleet.

That airline does get around

 

[Doug B]

Further from my link in post #2496:

In 1999, the Journal of Infectious Diseases (JID) published an article that analyzed the success of blood transfusions on several patients infected with Ebola during a 1996 (sic) outbreak in Kikwit, Congo. The findings suggested something pivotal.Only one of the eight patients died. “All were seriously ill with severe asthenia, four presented with hemorrhagic manifestations, and two became comatose as their disease progressed,” the study stated. “Only one patient (12.5 percent) died; this number is significantly lower than the overall case fatality rate (80 percent) for the Ebola outbreak in Kikwit and than the rates for other Ebola epidemics.”

From the abstract of the JID article mentioned above, titled Treatment of Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever with Blood Transfusions from Convalescent Patients :

Between 6 and 22 June 1995, 8 patients in Kikwit, Democratic Republic of the Congo, who met the case definition used in Kikwit for Ebola (EBO) hemorrhagic fever, were transfused with blood donated by 5 convalescent patients....

In 1995 during an outbreak of EBO virus in Kikwit, DRC, there was a 12.5% case fatality rate among 8 EHF patients who received blood transfusions from convalescent donors. This rate differs significantly from the overall case fatality rate (80%) for the epidemic and from the case fatality rates for other epidemics.

The JID abstract presents several charts and gives a case history of the 8 patients. It also gives detail about other cases where convalescent serum didn't have the same effect on Ebola patients, and offers theories on conditions that may improve the efficacy of this treatment.

 

[Doug B]

The conclusion of the JID article Treatment of Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever with Blood Transfusions from Convalescent Patients . Keep in mind that this was written 15 years ago:

This study suggests that with adequate symptomatic treatment of EHF patients, the EBO case fatality rate may drop significantly, as seen with other life-threatening infectious diseases, such as cholera and dengue. Transfusions are probably useful for the treatment or prevention of shock and may provide coagulation factors to stop or to prevent bleeding. However, because of the small number of patients studied and the lack of control subjects, we cannot conclude that the neutralizing antibodies in transfused convalescent blood improves the outcome for EHF patients.Because the reservoir or vector of the EBO virus is not known, it is likely that in the future, there will be more EBO epidemics of EHF. It is hoped that the lessons learned during the Kikwit outbreak will enable us to reduce case fatality rates. Additional animal experiments with passive immune therapy are certainly needed; however, in the absence of an effective antiviral, plans should also be made to prepare for a more thorough evaluation of the efficacy of hyperimmune plasma treatment during a new EBO virus outbreak.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Just read an article that quoted Obama as saying he hugged and kissed the nurses that were working on the Ebola patient that was in Atlanta. WTF?!? This is like a joke.

 

[jon_mx]

Good to see the FFA has figured out this whole Ebola thing. Has anyone emailed the CDC our findings yet? Why drag this thing out any longer?

But it is sad that there are better ideas here we get for free than the $700 million a year CDC spends.

 

[shader]

Just read an article that quoted Obama as saying he hugged and kissed the nurses that were working on the Ebola patient that was in Atlanta. WTF?!? This is like a joke.

We ebola'd some folks

 

[jon_mx]

Just read an article that quoted Obama as saying he hugged and kissed the nurses that were working on the Ebola patient that was in Atlanta. WTF?!? This is like a joke.

Obama: "I kissed Ebola girl, and I liked it"

 

[Fennis]

Just read an article that quoted Obama as saying he hugged and kissed the nurses that were working on the Ebola patient that was in Atlanta. WTF?!? This is like a joke.

good, I'll move his grade from a D to a D+

 

[Fennis]

The conclusion of the JID article Treatment of Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever with Blood Transfusions from Convalescent Patients . Keep in mind that this was written 15 years ago:

This study suggests that with adequate symptomatic treatment of EHF patients, the EBO case fatality rate may drop significantly, as seen with other life-threatening infectious diseases, such as cholera and dengue. Transfusions are probably useful for the treatment or prevention of shock and may provide coagulation factors to stop or to prevent bleeding. However, because of the small number of patients studied and the lack of control subjects, we cannot conclude that the neutralizing antibodies in transfused convalescent blood improves the outcome for EHF patients.Because the reservoir or vector of the EBO virus is not known, it is likely that in the future, there will be more EBO epidemics of EHF. It is hoped that the lessons learned during the Kikwit outbreak will enable us to reduce case fatality rates. Additional animal experiments with passive immune therapy are certainly needed; however, in the absence of an effective antiviral, plans should also be made to prepare for a more thorough evaluation of the efficacy of hyperimmune plasma treatment during a new EBO virus outbreak.

Despite all the panic, nothing focuses people who can make a difference like having a well defined mission. One of the benefits of Ebola hitting here, is that will lead to some advances in treatment. Should be interesting to see what occurs.

 

[Doug B]

But it is sad that there are better ideas here we get for free than the $700 million a year CDC spends.

There's nothing factual discussed in this thread that the CDC (collectively) doesn't already know.

From where I'm sitting, the CDC doesn't look especially ... nimble. Looks like a lot of entrenchment and an undue difficulty in changing gears when needed.

They also seem to lack in information collection, "triaging" (ironically), and dissemination. I'm sure their specific medical knowledge is vast, but that's only a part of the puzzle.