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Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (7 Viewers)

While I do knock Tesla a bunch, I also give credit where due - the specs on the Roadster are insane, if that car performs at the advertised specs, I'd have it on my consideration list for an eventual supercar purchase (I need a dashboard in front of me though, that's a dealbreaker for me). 

 
jonessed said:
Out of curiosity, what price point would you be willing to pay up to?
I'm cheap.  But it would totally depend on the vehicle.  I personally can't really contemplate spending $50k+ on a vehicle.  My current daily driver is a used RAV4 I got 2 months before my only child was born - and spent $14k on.  I definitely could have afforded more, but knew a kid would shove cheerios into every possible orifice of the car, and probably throw up a few times in it as well -  so didn't want him destroying a new car. 

I wouldn't be looking at this purchase as a "super sports car" if you're trying to upsell me on an S or X.  Looking at it as something fun to get me from A to B (generally less than 30 mile each way trips) without the need for gas.  I'm coming at this from a financial "savings" point of view - not needing to spend ~$2k a year in gas, oil and filters, other stuff needed for an internal combustion engine. 

At this point, my biggest drawbacks are reliability (these just haven't been around long enough to know their usable lifespan), and that the car really doesn't completely match my lifestyle (I'd never put a dog in it, I don't know if I'd ever feel comfortable enough to mount a bike on the roof of it, wouldn't want to take it on any dirt roads). 

 
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I'm cheap.  But it would totally depend on the vehicle.  I personally can't really contemplate spending $50k+ on a vehicle.  My current daily driver is a used RAV4 I got 2 months before my only child was born - and spent $14k on.  I definitely could have afforded more, but knew a kid would shove cheerios into every possible orifice of the car, and probably throw up a few times in it as well -  so didn't want him destroying a new car. 

I wouldn't be looking at this purchase as a "super sports car" if you're trying to upsell me on an S or X.  Looking at it as something fun to get me from A to B (generally less than 30 mile each way trips) without the need for gas.  I'm coming at this from a financial "savings" point of view - not needing to spend ~$2k a year in gas, oil and filters, other stuff needed for an internal combustion engine. 

At this point, my biggest drawbacks are reliability (these just haven't been around long enough to know their usable lifespan), and that the car really doesn't completely match my lifestyle (I'd never put a dog in it, I don't know if I'd ever feel comfortable enough to mount a bike on the roof of it, wouldn't want to take it on any dirt roads). 
Just know the upfront cost installing a charger into your garage if it is a financial decision. I've read widely varying costs on this. 

From my research, it's somewhere in the neighborhood of $450-$600 for 15k miles a year in electric costs. If you're getting 30 mpg, at $2.50 a gallon, you're looking at $1,250 a year in gas. 

My gut says a good portion of Tesla owners aren't in it for the gas savings, they just want the car. 

 
I'm cheap.  But it would totally depend on the vehicle.  I personally can't really contemplate spending $50k+ on a vehicle.  My current daily driver is a used RAV4 I got 2 months before my only child was born - and spent $14k on.  I definitely could have afforded more, but knew a kid would shove cheerios into every possible orifice of the car, and probably throw up a few times in it as well -  so didn't want him destroying a new car. 

I wouldn't be looking at this purchase as a "super sports car" if you're trying to upsell me on an S or X.  Looking at it as something fun to get me from A to B (generally less than 30 mile each way trips) without the need for gas.  I'm coming at this from a financial "savings" point of view - not needing to spend ~$2k a year in gas, oil and filters, other stuff needed for an internal combustion engine. 

At this point, my biggest drawbacks are reliability (these just haven't been around long enough to know their usable lifespan), and that the car really doesn't completely match my lifestyle (I'd never put a dog in it, I don't know if I'd ever feel comfortable enough to mount a bike on the roof of it, wouldn't want to take it on any dirt roads). 
It isn't like it is fragile.  Model 3 has a roof rack available so not sure why it would be different than any other car.  Is it just because of the cost you'd be trying to keep it pristine?  And if so why?  If it is a car you're going to keep a long time then use it, don't save it for the next person.

 
It isn't like it is fragile.  Model 3 has a roof rack available so not sure why it would be different than any other car.  Is it just because of the cost you'd be trying to keep it pristine?  And if so why?  If it is a car you're going to keep a long time then use it, don't save it for the next person.
Specifically on bikes (mounted on the roof via a fork mount), my wife has had the fork slip off the mount when mounting it, causing the bike to fall onto the roof of the car and dent it.  A dent/nick in the metal roof of a car is one thing - cracked glass is another. 

For the dog we have now (and future dogs, we'll always have dogs) we'd still have an SUV for that.  So I'd prefer to them to be in that if we're taking dogs anywhere (which isn't too frequent honestly).

 
Just know the upfront cost installing a charger into your garage if it is a financial decision. I've read widely varying costs on this. 

From my research, it's somewhere in the neighborhood of $450-$600 for 15k miles a year in electric costs. If you're getting 30 mpg, at $2.50 a gallon, you're looking at $1,250 a year in gas. 

My gut says a good portion of Tesla owners aren't in it for the gas savings, they just want the car. 
I've got a buddy who's an electrician who can help with the charger install.  I think I'd just need a dryer type plug installed in the garage.  The garage interior wall is shared with the basement wall where my breaker box is, so it shouldn't be too difficult.  Less than $100 in parts (plug, breaker, 4 gauge wire would be all I'd think).  That, $100 or so in labor with a nice case of beer should take care of it.  Don't think I'll need one of those "at home super chargers."

My current 24/7 utility rate is about 11 cents per kWh.  Assuming 80% charging efficiency - and the smaller 3 has a 50 kWh battery and a 220 mile range....carry the 7....that's about 4.4 miles per kWh, which would be 11 cents at full efficiency, or more realistically 13.75 cents.  Works out to 3.125c per mile - or $375 a year for 12k miles driven.  But I did receive notice that my power company *may* be breaking out a program this summer with "off peak rates" aimed at EV drivers.  25% rate reduction would take the annual electricity costs down below $300. 

My current daily driver (the SUV) gets about 24 mpg.  It will still be used (which is why I'm estimating 12k miles for the EV rather than the full 17k a year I generally drive).  But the 12k miles I wouldn't be putting on it would have cost me $1,250 (12k miles @ 25mpg @$2.50 per gallon).  Add in being able to do one oil change a year rather than 2 and fewer transmission fluid changes and such, I'm looking at about $1k a year in "savings".  

Sure I'd love the car - but I'd also love to have lots of things.  "Saving" $1k a year in gas vs electricity makes that choice financially justifiable. 

 
I've got a buddy who's an electrician who can help with the charger install.  I think I'd just need a dryer type plug installed in the garage.  The garage interior wall is shared with the basement wall where my breaker box is, so it shouldn't be too difficult.  Less than $100 in parts (plug, breaker, 4 gauge wire would be all I'd think).  That, $100 or so in labor with a nice case of beer should take care of it.  Don't think I'll need one of those "at home super chargers."

My current 24/7 utility rate is about 11 cents per kWh.  Assuming 80% charging efficiency - and the smaller 3 has a 50 kWh battery and a 220 mile range....carry the 7....that's about 4.4 miles per kWh, which would be 11 cents at full efficiency, or more realistically 13.75 cents.  Works out to 3.125c per mile - or $375 a year for 12k miles driven.  But I did receive notice that my power company *may* be breaking out a program this summer with "off peak rates" aimed at EV drivers.  25% rate reduction would take the annual electricity costs down below $300. 

My current daily driver (the SUV) gets about 24 mpg.  It will still be used (which is why I'm estimating 12k miles for the EV rather than the full 17k a year I generally drive).  But the 12k miles I wouldn't be putting on it would have cost me $1,250 (12k miles @ 25mpg @$2.50 per gallon).  Add in being able to do one oil change a year rather than 2 and fewer transmission fluid changes and such, I'm looking at about $1k a year in "savings".  

Sure I'd love the car - but I'd also love to have lots of things.  "Saving" $1k a year in gas vs electricity makes that choice financially justifiable. 
correct.  basically a dryer plug, should cost you $200.  Don't shell out for the Tesla Wall Charger.

$.035 per mile is about right too.

 
correct.  basically a dryer plug, should cost you $200.  Don't shell out for the Tesla Wall Charger.

$.035 per mile is about right too.
Doesnt it come with a wall charger?  Or is this 2 different things?  

Sorry for the dumb question.  

 
correct.  basically a dryer plug, should cost you $200.  Don't shell out for the Tesla Wall Charger.

$.035 per mile is about right too.
Unless my power company follows through with their off peak rates.  Could set my dishwasher to run at that time, too.  Maybe even figure out a way for my tank water heater to run at that time as well.

 
Doesnt it come with a wall charger?  Or is this 2 different things?  

Sorry for the dumb question.  
Comes with a "cord" that can be used with a standard wall plug, or with a dryer type plus.  The "wall charger" is a separate $500 piece of equipment, and at least for me, wouldn't be needed.

 
Comes with a "cord" that can be used with a standard wall plug, or with a dryer type plus.  The "wall charger" is a separate $500 piece of equipment, and at least for me, wouldn't be needed.
So if you have the dryer plug in your garage you're good to go without buying the $500 Telsa Connector?

 
So if you have the dryer plug in your garage you're good to go without buying the $500 Telsa Connector?
Correct.  The $500 connector might be able to charge the car at say ~35-40 miles per hour, but the one that comes with the car with a dryer plug can likely charge it at ~30 miles per hour.  Good enough for most. 

 
If you are only driving a few miles a day then a dryer plug should be all you need.  If you're driving 100 - 150 miles then a Tesla charger might be worth it.  You'll need to recover more each night.

 
Correct.  The $500 connector might be able to charge the car at say ~35-40 miles per hour, but the one that comes with the car with a dryer plug can likely charge it at ~30 miles per hour.  Good enough for most. 
thanks.  My breaker box is already in my garage.  Should be pretty painless to get the plug ready.  

 
Do any of these models have cooled or ventilated seats? I couldn't find any info through a search, so I assume not.

I'm in FL and it's an important feature for me.

 
Latest software improves Tesla Supercharger times by up to 25% for all Tesla S/X/3 worldwide, incl original 2012 Model S. Not splitting power across 2 Supercharger stalls helps all cars up to 50%.
Elon announced by Twitter a major improvement to Supercharging.

 
Latest software improves Tesla Supercharger times by up to 25% for all Tesla S/X/3 worldwide, incl original 2012 Model S. Not splitting power across 2 Supercharger stalls helps all cars up to 50%.
Elon announced by Twitter a major improvement to Supercharging.
Tesla Raj checked out a version 3 Supercharger launch event last night

He's a breathless fanboi but this is pretty nuts. They were seeing charge rates of 1,000 mph @232kw. That's bonkers....the best I have seen in an S or an X was like 325mph.

 
So you can fill your car up in 15-20 minutes?
on supercharging you don't really want to hit the cells hard past 80% so 15-20 is realistic to get to 80%.  It slows down a lot at 80%, Model 3 max range 5% to full is 30 estimated and seen on youtubes and stuff.

 
was it this thread where someone gave the analogy that charging Li-Ion is like filling a milk jug with a pressure washer when you can’t spill any?

 
So you can fill your car up in 15-20 minutes?
No, that was the charging rate for Model 3s that were down to 20-30% state of charge. It tapers off & slows down at around 50%, and gets progressively slower - especially the last 10%.

But the goal is never to fill up to 100% when you are Supercharging. The route planner in the car will tell you how much you need to get to the next Supercharger (or the next one you want to stop at - often you will bypass several.) So if you charge up to say 70-75% (usually in the time it takes you to walk to/from the bathrooms & food), you drive until the car is back down to under 30% so you can charge faster. Its more efficient to not stop for SC until the car is ready to receive the fastest speed, and once it starts to taper off (you monitor it on your smart phone), you pack up & take off for the next one.

 
Model Y Unveil - Livestream 8pm PST

Tesla's fifth car gets introduced - think of it as the baby Model X, an SUV based on the Model 3 platform.

teaser was posted on Twitter earlier today.

Folks at the launch event will get rides in the Model Y, and the next gen Roadster (0-60 in 1.9 seconds.)

Base model price for the Model Y will come in....where? I have seen from $38.5K to around $45Kish? Probably the high end. 

That's $8-15K higher than a mid-trim Toyota RAV4.

Auto manufacturers have plans to launch over 200 new EV models between now and 2027.

Can't wait to see what happens to EV prices with that level of competition.

The cost of ditching carbon is much less than you think

 
Sorry if I missed this discussion but the full self driving upgrade was lowered to $2k. I guess there is a rumor that it is going to increase to $3k on Monday. Has anyone heard this? Has anyone purchased the upgrade?

 
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Sorry if I missed this discussion but the full self driving upgrade was lowered to $2k. I guess there is a rumor that it is going to increase to $3k on Monday. Has anyone heard this? Has anyone purchased the upgrade?
Things have been moving fast.

First on March 2nd:

Any customer who bought a Tesla prior to this week’s price adjustment will be able to upgrade to Autopilot for $2,000 or Full Self-Driving capability for an additional $3,000. In other words, for a customer who previously hadn’t purchased Autopilot plus Full Self-Driving, they will soon be able to do so for $6,000 less than before.
IOW, used to be EAP for $3K, and another $5K for FSD if you ordered it with the car, and more ($4K + $7K = $11K total) if you added it later. 

Switched to $2K and $3K on March 2, and everyone threw a hissy fit. WTF? I paid $8K and got butkus, now people can buy the same thing for less than I paid in 2018?

So Elon admitted he was wrong on Tuesday, March 12:

Tesla autopilot prices back to normal on Monday (3/18)

It's a cluster.

Anyway, current owners have a few days to grab AP for $2K and FSD for $5K (e.g., another $3K), then everything goes back to what it used to be on Monday.

 
FYI - freeroll intro video just started, 20 minutes late. This is the first time I've ever watched a launch event live.

 
Things have been moving fast.

First on March 2nd:

IOW, used to be EAP for $3K, and another $5K for FSD if you ordered it with the car, and more ($4K + $7K = $11K total) if you added it later. 

Switched to $2K and $3K on March 2, and everyone threw a hissy fit. WTF? I paid $8K and got butkus, now people can buy the same thing for less than I paid in 2018?

So Elon admitted he was wrong on Tuesday, March 12:

Tesla autopilot prices back to normal on Monday (3/18)

It's a cluster.

Anyway, current owners have a few days to grab AP for $2K and FSD for $5K (e.g., another $3K), then everything goes back to what it used to be on Monday.


Thanks. Looks like I'll be shelling out $2k tomorrow.

 
No falcon wing doors on the Model Y but it seats six adults (errr....6 adults got out....they're saying it will have 7 seat option but IDK if that means "comfortably seats"). 

0-60 3.5 seconds

0.23 Coefficient of Drag

Range 300 miles

Center display looks just like the Model 3

Std range $39K

Long range $47K

(think those will be RWD only)

AWD $51K

Performance $60K

 
& that's a wrap

time to let everyone go for free Model Y & Roadster rides

they'll be a gazillion YouTube videos up by morning

 
That thing is hideous. Seats 7.....you've got to be kidding me with that. The only way that seats 7 is if I'm driving 6 4th graders to and from school. 

 
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I hadn't really heard Musk speak before, I would have thought he would be more polished.  There wasn't anything bad with the press conference last night, but he didn't seem smooth.

 
Take_The_Shot said:
That thing is hideous. Seats 7.....you've got to be kidding me with that. The only way that seats 7 is if I'm driving 6 4th graders to and from school. 
Yeah, I had convinced myself to hold off on a 3 just to see what the Y had to offer.  I don't think its hideous, but the functionality of it is just not for me.  Obviously they've done their research and know this "compact SUV" market, but its not for me.  I'd rather the 3.  

Still think I'm putting off my purchase until about this time next year.  I want the service problems to show some signs of improving.  And I'm holding out a little hope the used Tesla market comes down.  I'm secretly holding out for an X.  

 
I hadn't really heard Musk speak before, I would have thought he would be more polished.  There wasn't anything bad with the press conference last night, but he didn't seem smooth.
That's how he always speaks. I think his brain never shuts down; he's always pondering 20 different alternatives and evaluating which is the optimal path. He can be very funny at times - not so much last night - but it's the same speech patterns whether it's an earnings call, answering interview questions in an open forum, speaking at a Commencement...always halting, self-correcting, over explaining with a myriad of caveats, then eventually meandering to his point.

He has told a story of running into a classmate who went to UPenn when he was there and they had a date when he was 18 or 19. She reminded him of how it went, because he had long forgotten about it. The very first question he asked her on their first dinner date was "Do you ever think about electric cars?" There was no second date.

 
Yeah, I had convinced myself to hold off on a 3 just to see what the Y had to offer.  I don't think its hideous, but the functionality of it is just not for me.  Obviously they've done their research and know this "compact SUV" market, but its not for me.  I'd rather the 3.  

Still think I'm putting off my purchase until about this time next year.  I want the service problems to show some signs of improving.  And I'm holding out a little hope the used Tesla market comes down.  I'm secretly holding out for an X.  
"It's a feature not a bug"

Their build quality has always been average, though to be fair they have always been known - prior to the Model 3 mass production - to go above and beyond to make things right.

Their panel gaps are horrendous and always have been, they had a fundamental design flaw in the Model S retractable door handles that took years to replace (2012-14 it was super common to 2, 3 or 4 handles fail within the first couple years), the falcon wing doors on the X had a litany of issues, Battery Pack series A was horrific, the 90 KwH packs have seen really bad degradation (far worse than any other battery), the aluminum body / their paint has always been soft leading to all manner of surface defects, leaks/squeaks/rattles like its a hoopty, condensation in the taillights....how we doing on time?....et al.

I think the best build quality was late 2014 through early 2016. After they started making the X, they had all kinds of new issues year one of that one. Then came manufacturing hell, ramping up the Model 3. You don't buy these cars because of the quality of the fit and finish. They're great tech, efficient, super fun, OTA (over the air updates) make the car get better all the time. I don't own one, but I have heard the same thing over and over for the last 7 years:

"I wish I would have pulled the trigger sooner. I'll never own an ICE car again."

That is in spite of all the quality issues.

 
@BobbyLayne I'm more or less talking about the guys that gets in a fender bender and is left without a car for 4 months.  That issue worries me even more being here in MS.  There is literally no service center within 400 miles.  I know the have mobile service, but still I feel being on this island here would work against me in a major event.  I won't buy another ICE car, I'm still sporting a 2010 Prius.  

I've never bought a new car.  The price tag has always made me nervous.  I'd like to see the price on some of these 2017 or 2018 3's this time next year.  There are plenty of the 2015 Model S out there less than $40k.  Not sure if the X will trend that low, but I want to see!

Wishful thinking I guess  :shrug:

 
@BobbyLayne I'm more or less talking about the guys that gets in a fender bender and is left without a car for 4 months.  That issue worries me even more being here in MS.  There is literally no service center within 400 miles.  I know the have mobile service, but still I feel being on this island here would work against me in a major event.  I won't buy another ICE car, I'm still sporting a 2010 Prius.  

I've never bought a new car.  The price tag has always made me nervous.  I'd like to see the price on some of these 2017 or 2018 3's this time next year.  There are plenty of the 2015 Model S out there less than $40k.  Not sure if the X will trend that low, but I want to see!

Wishful thinking I guess  :shrug:
Yeah, I gotchu, seems like it can be really painful waiting on Tesla parts. Definitely need a Plan B - second car, insurance that covers rental car, etc.

I'm a big fan of the Model X. They both have a ton of room, but the sight lines on the X are next level. Love the big sky windshield. Not quite as fun to drive as an insane or ludicrous Model S but still super quick, performance version or just standard AWD.

 
I'm kind of digging the look of the Y.  I wonder if it seats 6 comfortably? 
Man I don't know how they fit 7 people in there at the launch event (I should rewatch....I swore I saw 6 come out but they were all wearing black kind of faded into the background quickly.) I watched a couple test rides and people who shot the back row - nobody got to sit in the third row - said no way you're putting any adults back there. No headroom at all.

Wonder if they'll have a 6 seat version? For the Model X, the fold flat 5-seat is perfect if you are going to use it primarily to haul stuff, but the 6 is vastly superior to the 7. Even though the X is enormous that third row doesn't have much leg room. But in the 6 seat configuration one person can put their legs in the open space between the second row pedestal seats. Plenty of headroom even for tall people in the second row, third row is comfortable if your guests are 5'10" or under.

Since the Y is sort of a baby X, I am guessing the second row is gonna be about like the third row of the bigger SUV.

 
Texas legislation taking up this topic again, could get ugly.
They won't stand. There are thousands of Tesla owners in TX.

Interestingly, the federal government is on Tesla’s side in this thorny issue. In May 2015, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) urged Michigan lawmakers to repeal the state's third-party dealership mandate, arguing Michigan's auto practices are anti-competitive.

"In our view, current provisions operate as a special protection for dealers -- a protection that is likely harming both competition and consumers," said the FTC in a statement at the time.

In some states with third-party dealership mandates, Tesla maintains showrooms but is barred from selling cars directly, allowing test drives, and directing customers to the Tesla website. Many see Texas’ coddling of its car dealers as a free market issue because car dealers are using the law to protect themselves from competition and create a monopoly.
https://www.ibtimes.com/texas-ban-tesla-fixing-its-cars-state-service-centers-2776335

 
Couldn't stand it.  I've wanted a 3 since I first saw it.  

Just placed the order on a LR RWD, Midnight Silver with Aero Wheels.   :pickle:

 
I hadn't really heard Musk speak before, I would have thought he would be more polished.  There wasn't anything bad with the press conference last night, but he didn't seem smooth.
Go listen to an earnings call, speaking isn't his thing. A lot of brilliant people are bad at public speaking.

I'm secretly holding out for an X.  
The Model X is an SUV built on the same frame as the Model S, it's a mistake, they know it - I know two X owners, both were unhappy, both have moved on. 

In contrast, never really met an angry S owner.

 
Point of Information regarding the X:

They have delivered 70K + Model X since 2016 - roughly 85K Model S during the same period. 2018 they were roughly even (X = 26,100 vrs S = 25,745.)

I know many satisfied owners. Haven't ever known anyone to give up on it. Actually, I've never known anyone who drove a Tesla who ever bought an ICE again.

 

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