Eli is ELIte (1 Viewer)

[Uncle Leo]

He is almost perfect tonight. No Nicks, No Ahmad, No line, No problem for Eli. The guy is really good. Hell he makes people like Barden, Bennett, Brown look good. Yes, even the salsa dancer was made by Eli.

 

[Trenchcoat]

He is almost perfect tonight. No Nicks, No Ahmad, No line, No problem for Eli. The guy is really good. Hell he makes people like Barden, Bennett, Brown look good. Yes, even the salsa dancer was made by Eli.

Eli did not look that good. He made at least 4 throws that were in poor judgement and would have been picked off by competent CBs. Eli is good in spurts but he has questionable decision making ability when playing with a lead.

 

[Wadsworth]

He is almost perfect tonight. No Nicks, No Ahmad, No line, No problem for Eli. The guy is really good. Hell he makes people like Barden, Bennett, Brown look good. Yes, even the salsa dancer was made by Eli.

Eli did not look that good. He made at least 4 throws that were in poor judgement and would have been picked off by competent CBs. Eli is good in spurts but he has questionable decision making ability when playing with a lead.

Eli dominated that game. He was clearly the best player on the field.

 

[LTF]

No line? He had perfect pockets all night against an AWFUL defense.

I'm all for giving Manning props, but that game tonight had more to do with how truly bad the Carolina D was than being a statement about how good the Giants really are.

 

[Avery]

He is almost perfect tonight. No Nicks, No Ahmad, No line, No problem for Eli. The guy is really good. Hell he makes people like Barden, Bennett, Brown look good. Yes, even the salsa dancer was made by Eli.

Eli did not look that good. He made at least 4 throws that were in poor judgement and would have been picked off by competent CBs. Eli is good in spurts but he has questionable decision making ability when playing with a lead.

So he did not make every throw perfectly.Your standards for "that good" are rather ridiculous.

 

[Kenny Powers]

He is almost perfect tonight. No Nicks, No Ahmad, No line, No problem for Eli. The guy is really good. Hell he makes people like Barden, Bennett, Brown look good. Yes, even the salsa dancer was made by Eli.

No line?! He had a 5 yard radius around him 95% of the plays. Nice game certainly, but he had all the time in the world tonight.

 

[monk]

He is almost perfect tonight. No Nicks, No Ahmad, No line, No problem for Eli. The guy is really good. Hell he makes people like Barden, Bennett, Brown look good. Yes, even the salsa dancer was made by Eli.

Eli did not look that good. He made at least 4 throws that were in poor judgement and would have been picked off by competent CBs. Eli is good in spurts but he has questionable decision making ability when playing with a lead.

Said the Jackass

 

[Avery]

He is almost perfect tonight. No Nicks, No Ahmad, No line, No problem for Eli. The guy is really good. Hell he makes people like Barden, Bennett, Brown look good. Yes, even the salsa dancer was made by Eli.

No line?! He had a 5 yard radius around him 95% of the plays. Nice game certainly, but he had all the time in the world tonight.

Eli looked excellent tonight and it was a good example of what an elite QB can do with time in the pocket.

Giants fans have known this year that when Boothe was healthy, him and Locklear at the tackles are the best lineup for the OL they have.

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

Resume posting in here:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=622070&view=findpost&p=14092998&hl=eli+manning+elite&fromsearch=1

 

[Trenchcoat]

He is almost perfect tonight. No Nicks, No Ahmad, No line, No problem for Eli. The guy is really good. Hell he makes people like Barden, Bennett, Brown look good. Yes, even the salsa dancer was made by Eli.

Eli did not look that good. He made at least 4 throws that were in poor judgement and would have been picked off by competent CBs. Eli is good in spurts but he has questionable decision making ability when playing with a lead.

So he did not make every throw perfectly.Your standards for "that good" are rather ridiculous.

He doesn't have to make every throw perfect, just not make so many bad decisions. Like forcing it into quadruple coverage. Would have been a very different game if the CB closed his hands on time for the first one.

 

[netnalp]

He is almost perfect tonight. No Nicks, No Ahmad, No line, No problem for Eli. The guy is really good. Hell he makes people like Barden, Bennett, Brown look good. Yes, even the salsa dancer was made by Eli.

Eli did not look that good. He made at least 4 throws that were in poor judgement and would have been picked off by competent CBs. Eli is good in spurts but he has questionable decision making ability when playing with a lead.

So he did not make every throw perfectly.Your standards for "that good" are rather ridiculous.

He doesn't have to make every throw perfect, just not make so many bad decisions. Like forcing it into quadruple coverage. Would have been a very different game if the CB closed his hands on time for the first one.

At least one of those is on Bennett.

 

[Judge Smails]

Eli owner here. Little bit of both. Eli for the most part made GREAT decisions. Didn't force feed it into his #1 (Cruz) like some QB's would do. Went to the open man. Did make a couple of risky throws he got away with, but doesn't every QB? Got to take some risks, otherwise you're doing safe check downs all night. The O-Line gave him forever to throw the ball, and the Carolina D was awful against the run, and even worse against the pass. Every receiver was WIDE open.

Eli is elite to me because he's won 2 SuperBowls. Sure, he forces throws at times, but he's becoming very hard to defend and can put up huge numbers.

 

[footballnerd]

Eh. He looked good, buy give any NFL QB that much time and he'll pick you apart, wouldn't use that game as the turning factor

 

[otb_lifer]

Can't spell ELITE without ELI ...

I think he is clearly the top of second tier as of right now ... Stafford/Cam have some catching up to do.

 

[fred_1_15301]

He's been elite for a while now...............

 

[Squintz82]

People just don't like admitting Eli is elite. As a Giants fan, I actually like that he has so many haters. Less media pressure.

 

[jurb26]

Eli is now and has been for the last 2 years one of the most underrated QBs and players in the NFL. I just don't get why so many people want to dismiss how good this guy is. He's a top 5 QB in the game IMO. He isn't flashy or outspoken, he just gets it done consistently.

Last night he had a great pocket to work with and no matter how bad your weapons are an elite QB will pick you apart when he has time to throw. Which Eli did.

 

[Shutout]

Eli is now and has been for the last 2 years 5 years, at least one of the most underrated QBs and players in the NFL. I just don't get why so many people want to dismiss how good this guy is. He's a top 5 QB in the game IMO. He isn't flashy or outspoken, he just gets it done consistently.

Last night he had a great pocket to work with and no matter how bad your weapons are an elite QB will pick you apart when he has time to throw. Which Eli did.

He's always been a steady, top 12-14 fantasy QB even before these last couple of really good years. In general, he has always been very overlooked/undervalued.

 

[Khy]

Eli is now and has been for the last 2 years one of the most underrated QBs and players in the NFL. I just don't get why so many people want to dismiss how good this guy is. He's a top 5 QB in the game IMO. He isn't flashy or outspoken, he just gets it done consistently. Last night he had a great pocket to work with and no matter how bad your weapons are an elite QB will pick you apart when he has time to throw. Which Eli did.

It's mainly what you said, he isn't flashy. Analysts and fans think 'elite' means flashy. Your Brady, Rodgers, Brees' of the world. Guys who have just always had that amazing big play ability. A lot of people also hate on him for non-existent things... for example. A lot of people seem to have this impression that he is a bad leader and doesn't have enough emotion. Simple fact is that's just not who Eli is and at the same time it's also the best part of him. He's an amazing leader, he just doesn't put that stuff in the public light because in his opinion there is no need for that. You'll never see him screaming at an offensive lineman when the guy blows up a block, or a WR when the runs the wrong route. He does all of those things but they are all done on the sidelines quietly. You saw this last night when he almost through a pick because Bennett was supposed to continue up field and stopped short on the route. They showed him on the sidelines walking with Bennett and explaining what happened. Simple fact is Eli has an amazing arm with great accuracy, does he make bad decision from time to time? Yea sure but every QB does that, not a single QB is immune to it. The big upsides with Eli are that pretty simple, for example. There is no QB in the NFL who can forget his mistakes as fast as Eli can, he'll throw a pick 6 then come out that next drive and throw the ball in the exact same spot as the pick 6 occurred no more than 3 minutes ago. He doesn't get flustered about anything negative that happens in the game. You look at guys who are considered much better than Eli... Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Ryan. All of these guys get very flustered after they get hit a few times and it's often considered the game plan against them to just blitz a lot and try and keep them off balance. These things don't bother Eli one bit. Last week was a prime example of this, got hit a few times through 3 picks in the first half. Then comes out and has one of the best 4th quarter performances I've ever personally seen.The guy is Elite, he'll never get credit for it... one day though he'll be in the HoF and at that point maybe people will recognize him for what he was. This has nothing to do with fantasy just as a pure NFL QB he is among the best. Sure 'maybe' you don't put him above Brady, Rodgers and Brees. That's about it though, after those three it's Eli and nobody else is even close in my book.

 

[Bruce Hammond]

I think he's close to elite, but not quite.

More like e-lite.

 

[jurb26]

I think he's close to elite, but not quite.More like e-lite.

What would he have to do in order for you to say he is elite?

 

[UKColt]

My issue with Eli is that he'll have a game like this, and then he'll play like he did last week (in the first 3 quarters.)

He's too inconsistent to be considered in the top tier IMO, though he probably is the best one from the 2nd tier of QBs.

 

[Bruce Hammond]

I think he's close to elite, but not quite.More like e-lite.

What would he have to do in order for you to say he is elite?

TD : INT ratio greater than 2 : 1 (he's only done that once in eight seasons, in 2008 when he was 21 : 10). He was 29 : 16 last year, 31 : 25 in 2010, and is 189 : 132 for his career before last night. Elite QBs top that ratio most years, not just once. By the way, the 31 TDs in 2010 was the only time he has topped 30 TDs, another mark elite QBs regularly exceed.Overall INTs need to come down. He has 132 INTs in 123 career games before last night, and that includes 16 last year and 25 in 2010. Brady has 116 INTs in 163 games, P Manning 201 INTs in 210 games (and was consistently 10 INTs and under several years in a row in his elite seasons), Romo 74 in 101, Rodgers 40 in 71, Brees 150 in 156.Completion % improvement. He's never topped 63% for a season (his best is 62.8% in 2010), was 60.9% last year, and is 58.5% for his career before last night. For comparison, career completion % for these guys (and this takes into account the poorer "growing pains" years): Brady 63.9%, P Manning 64.9%, Romo 64.5%, Rodgers 65.5%, Brees 65.8%.I guess it depends on how one defines elite, but to me elite doesn't mean just being a top-12 QB. It means cream of the crop top-3 or 4 at his position. Otherwise we are just watering down the word elite. He's an above average QB, and he's been on two Super Bowl winning teams which, in the eyes of some but not me, makes him elite. If we're going to factor in wins, which I don't have the time or energy right now to do, it should be overall wins/losses, and on that count Eli would fall far short of guys like Brady, P Manning, Rodgers, Brees.

 

[jdubs952]

I think he's close to elite, but not quite.More like e-lite.

What would he have to do in order for you to say he is elite?

TD : INT ratio greater than 2 : 1 (he's only done that once in eight seasons, in 2008 when he was 21 : 10). He was 29 : 16 last year, 31 : 25 in 2010, and is 189 : 132 for his career before last night. Elite QBs top that ratio most years, not just once. By the way, the 31 TDs in 2010 was the only time he has topped 30 TDs, another mark elite QBs regularly exceed.Overall INTs need to come down. He has 132 INTs in 123 career games before last night, and that includes 16 last year and 25 in 2010. Brady has 116 INTs in 163 games, P Manning 201 INTs in 210 games (and was consistently 10 INTs and under several years in a row in his elite seasons), Romo 74 in 101, Rodgers 40 in 71, Brees 150 in 156.Completion % improvement. He's never topped 63% for a season (his best is 62.8% in 2010), was 60.9% last year, and is 58.5% for his career before last night. For comparison, career completion % for these guys (and this takes into account the poorer "growing pains" years): Brady 63.9%, P Manning 64.9%, Romo 64.5%, Rodgers 65.5%, Brees 65.8%.I guess it depends on how one defines elite, but to me elite doesn't mean just being a top-12 QB. It means cream of the crop top-3 or 4 at his position. Otherwise we are just watering down the word elite. He's an above average QB, and he's been on two Super Bowl winning teams which, in the eyes of some but not me, makes him elite. If we're going to factor in wins, which I don't have the time or energy right now to do, it should be overall wins/losses, and on that count Eli would fall far short of guys like Brady, P Manning, Rodgers, Brees.

Look at his starts 2007+ He is a quiet leader and when he had toomer, shockey, barber, burress - he was less effective. Once he began the unquestioned leader of the NY Giants and started working with HIS receivers - nicks, hixon, cruz, barden, bennett, ballard, boss, etc... he was able to get the offense on the same page. He had some pretty bad statistical years in the beginning but always showed poise and flashed greatness. Now he is backing it up with more consistent play - especially when it matters most.

 

[Koya]

I think he's close to elite, but not quite.More like e-lite.

What would he have to do in order for you to say he is elite?

Would have to be pretty amazing. A guy would need like, two Super Bowls with an MVP in at least one of them. Even better to have two. Maybe game winning drives in a Super Bowl. I'd say two, but that would probably mean the guy's eliteness wouldn't be in question.Now, if a guy was the most clutch player in the game, always having big 4th quarter games and winning games with his arm late, then you'd consider him elite.Or maybe all of the above, plus having not one, but two game winning drives last week when he had one of the worst first halves of his career, only to follow up in a short week and look absolutely dominating with half his starters (ok, not quite) injured.

 

[Koya]

I think he's close to elite, but not quite.

More like e-lite.

What would he have to do in order for you to say he is elite?

TD : INT ratio greater than 2 : 1 (he's only done that once in eight seasons, in 2008 when he was 21 : 10). He was 29 : 16 last year, 31 : 25 in 2010, and is 189 : 132 for his career before last night. Elite QBs top that ratio most years, not just once. By the way, the 31 TDs in 2010 was the only time he has topped 30 TDs, another mark elite QBs regularly exceed.Overall INTs need to come down. He has 132 INTs in 123 career games before last night, and that includes 16 last year and 25 in 2010. Brady has 116 INTs in 163 games, P Manning 201 INTs in 210 games (and was consistently 10 INTs and under several years in a row in his elite seasons), Romo 74 in 101, Rodgers 40 in 71, Brees 150 in 156.

Completion % improvement. He's never topped 63% for a season (his best is 62.8% in 2010), was 60.9% last year, and is 58.5% for his career before last night. For comparison, career completion % for these guys (and this takes into account the poorer "growing pains" years): Brady 63.9%, P Manning 64.9%, Romo 64.5%, Rodgers 65.5%, Brees 65.8%.

I guess it depends on how one defines elite, but to me elite doesn't mean just being a top-12 QB. It means cream of the crop top-3 or 4 at his position. Otherwise we are just watering down the word elite.



He's an above average QB, and he's been on two Super Bowl winning teams which, in the eyes of some but not me, makes him elite. If we're going to factor in wins, which I don't have the time or energy right now to do, it should be overall wins/losses, and on that count Eli would fall far short of guys like Brady, P Manning, Rodgers, Brees.

To the stats, you have a point - however that changed big time last year. His stats were great, catching up to his innate ability to somehow just win games (isn't that the real point here?)And talking about winning games, did you WATCH those super bowls? Eli wasnt "on the winning team" - he was one of the key, if not THE key reason they won.

Now, you can argue he is not quite elite, but to say he is "above average" is a huge, huge minimization of the most clutch QB in the game today, period.

 

[Ray_T]

I think he's close to elite, but not quite.

More like e-lite.

What would he have to do in order for you to say he is elite?

TD : INT ratio greater than 2 : 1 (he's only done that once in eight seasons, in 2008 when he was 21 : 10). He was 29 : 16 last year, 31 : 25 in 2010, and is 189 : 132 for his career before last night. Elite QBs top that ratio most years, not just once. By the way, the 31 TDs in 2010 was the only time he has topped 30 TDs, another mark elite QBs regularly exceed.Overall INTs need to come down. He has 132 INTs in 123 career games before last night, and that includes 16 last year and 25 in 2010. Brady has 116 INTs in 163 games, P Manning 201 INTs in 210 games (and was consistently 10 INTs and under several years in a row in his elite seasons), Romo 74 in 101, Rodgers 40 in 71, Brees 150 in 156.

Completion % improvement. He's never topped 63% for a season (his best is 62.8% in 2010), was 60.9% last year, and is 58.5% for his career before last night. For comparison, career completion % for these guys (and this takes into account the poorer "growing pains" years): Brady 63.9%, P Manning 64.9%, Romo 64.5%, Rodgers 65.5%, Brees 65.8%.

I guess it depends on how one defines elite, but to me elite doesn't mean just being a top-12 QB. It means cream of the crop top-3 or 4 at his position. Otherwise we are just watering down the word elite.



He's an above average QB, and he's been on two Super Bowl winning teams which, in the eyes of some but not me, makes him elite. If we're going to factor in wins, which I don't have the time or energy right now to do, it should be overall wins/losses, and on that count Eli would fall far short of guys like Brady, P Manning, Rodgers, Brees.

To the stats, you have a point - however that changed big time last year. His stats were great, catching up to his innate ability to somehow just win games (isn't that the real point here?)And talking about winning games, did you WATCH those super bowls? Eli wasnt "on the winning team" - he was one of the key, if not THE key reason they won.

Now, you can argue he is not quite elite, but to say he is "above average" is a huge, huge minimization of the most clutch QB in the game today, period.

I agree. his stats are above average. but he (as a player)is elite.

it doesn't always show because their system rarely requires him to perform at an elite level. He has a solid defense and he puts up pretty good numbers.

what the stats don't show is how he elevates his game at key points in the game (or season) to pull out a win when needed. You cant teach that, and most of the stats we look at for fantasy football wont show it.

 

[Zeff]

I think he's close to elite, but not quite.More like e-lite.

What would he have to do in order for you to say he is elite?

TD : INT ratio greater than 2 : 1 (he's only done that once in eight seasons, in 2008 when he was 21 : 10). He was 29 : 16 last year, 31 : 25 in 2010, and is 189 : 132 for his career before last night. Elite QBs top that ratio most years, not just once. By the way, the 31 TDs in 2010 was the only time he has topped 30 TDs, another mark elite QBs regularly exceed.Overall INTs need to come down. He has 132 INTs in 123 career games before last night, and that includes 16 last year and 25 in 2010. Brady has 116 INTs in 163 games, P Manning 201 INTs in 210 games (and was consistently 10 INTs and under several years in a row in his elite seasons), Romo 74 in 101, Rodgers 40 in 71, Brees 150 in 156.Completion % improvement. He's never topped 63% for a season (his best is 62.8% in 2010), was 60.9% last year, and is 58.5% for his career before last night. For comparison, career completion % for these guys (and this takes into account the poorer "growing pains" years): Brady 63.9%, P Manning 64.9%, Romo 64.5%, Rodgers 65.5%, Brees 65.8%.I guess it depends on how one defines elite, but to me elite doesn't mean just being a top-12 QB. It means cream of the crop top-3 or 4 at his position. Otherwise we are just watering down the word elite. He's an above average QB, and he's been on two Super Bowl winning teams which, in the eyes of some but not me, makes him elite. If we're going to factor in wins, which I don't have the time or energy right now to do, it should be overall wins/losses, and on that count Eli would fall far short of guys like Brady, P Manning, Rodgers, Brees.

Oh please.If Eli were in an offense where he dumped off 200 balls a year to TE's, RB's, and slot receivers like the guys who put up huge TD:INT ratios, he'd have those kinds of numbers, too.Eli runs an aggressive downfield passing attack. One which, by the way, has helped lead his team to multiple SB titles where he was almost obscenely clutch along the way.When you say you want him to put up numbers similar to guys running much lower-risk, higher-volume offenses, all you're really saying is that you don't understand anything about NFL offenses.

 

[Koya]

I think he's close to elite, but not quite.

More like e-lite.

What would he have to do in order for you to say he is elite?

TD : INT ratio greater than 2 : 1 (he's only done that once in eight seasons, in 2008 when he was 21 : 10). He was 29 : 16 last year, 31 : 25 in 2010, and is 189 : 132 for his career before last night. Elite QBs top that ratio most years, not just once. By the way, the 31 TDs in 2010 was the only time he has topped 30 TDs, another mark elite QBs regularly exceed.Overall INTs need to come down. He has 132 INTs in 123 career games before last night, and that includes 16 last year and 25 in 2010. Brady has 116 INTs in 163 games, P Manning 201 INTs in 210 games (and was consistently 10 INTs and under several years in a row in his elite seasons), Romo 74 in 101, Rodgers 40 in 71, Brees 150 in 156.

Completion % improvement. He's never topped 63% for a season (his best is 62.8% in 2010), was 60.9% last year, and is 58.5% for his career before last night. For comparison, career completion % for these guys (and this takes into account the poorer "growing pains" years): Brady 63.9%, P Manning 64.9%, Romo 64.5%, Rodgers 65.5%, Brees 65.8%.

I guess it depends on how one defines elite, but to me elite doesn't mean just being a top-12 QB. It means cream of the crop top-3 or 4 at his position. Otherwise we are just watering down the word elite.



He's an above average QB, and he's been on two Super Bowl winning teams which, in the eyes of some but not me, makes him elite. If we're going to factor in wins, which I don't have the time or energy right now to do, it should be overall wins/losses, and on that count Eli would fall far short of guys like Brady, P Manning, Rodgers, Brees.

To the stats, you have a point - however that changed big time last year. His stats were great, catching up to his innate ability to somehow just win games (isn't that the real point here?)And talking about winning games, did you WATCH those super bowls? Eli wasnt "on the winning team" - he was one of the key, if not THE key reason they won.

Now, you can argue he is not quite elite, but to say he is "above average" is a huge, huge minimization of the most clutch QB in the game today, period.

I agree. his stats are above average. but he (as a player)is elite.

it doesn't always show because their system rarely requires him to perform at an elite level. He has a solid defense and he puts up pretty good numbers.

what the stats don't show is how he elevates his game at key points in the game (or season) to pull out a win when needed. You cant teach that, and most of the stats we look at for fantasy football wont show it.

The stats also don't show that its a huge difference playing in Giants Stadium (yes, its still Giants stadium to some), especially second half of the year, as compared to N.O. or Dallas. How Rodgers does it I don't know, but he had been at a level above elite for a while - I presume he will regain that form this year but it has not quite looked that way, dating back to when the Giants dominated them last year in the Playoffs.The Giants also have been transitioning slowly into the passing orientation of the league. Coughlin would still prefer to have a more balanced attack, which had limited Eli more early on in his career. However, he's really taken his game to a new level beginning last year to provide consistency and stats along with an uncanny ability to find a way to win, late in games.

 

[netnalp]

Losing Plax may have been a blessing. Before that Eli would just feed it to Plax. After Plax was gone, Eli began to spread the ball around more. I think it helped make him a better QB.

As for the INTs, some of that might be on the young WR core he's been playing with. His most veteran WR is only in his 4th year.

 

[Ray_T]

I think he's close to elite, but not quite.

More like e-lite.

What would he have to do in order for you to say he is elite?

TD : INT ratio greater than 2 : 1 (he's only done that once in eight seasons, in 2008 when he was 21 : 10). He was 29 : 16 last year, 31 : 25 in 2010, and is 189 : 132 for his career before last night. Elite QBs top that ratio most years, not just once. By the way, the 31 TDs in 2010 was the only time he has topped 30 TDs, another mark elite QBs regularly exceed.Overall INTs need to come down. He has 132 INTs in 123 career games before last night, and that includes 16 last year and 25 in 2010. Brady has 116 INTs in 163 games, P Manning 201 INTs in 210 games (and was consistently 10 INTs and under several years in a row in his elite seasons), Romo 74 in 101, Rodgers 40 in 71, Brees 150 in 156.

Completion % improvement. He's never topped 63% for a season (his best is 62.8% in 2010), was 60.9% last year, and is 58.5% for his career before last night. For comparison, career completion % for these guys (and this takes into account the poorer "growing pains" years): Brady 63.9%, P Manning 64.9%, Romo 64.5%, Rodgers 65.5%, Brees 65.8%.

I guess it depends on how one defines elite, but to me elite doesn't mean just being a top-12 QB. It means cream of the crop top-3 or 4 at his position. Otherwise we are just watering down the word elite.



He's an above average QB, and he's been on two Super Bowl winning teams which, in the eyes of some but not me, makes him elite. If we're going to factor in wins, which I don't have the time or energy right now to do, it should be overall wins/losses, and on that count Eli would fall far short of guys like Brady, P Manning, Rodgers, Brees.

To the stats, you have a point - however that changed big time last year. His stats were great, catching up to his innate ability to somehow just win games (isn't that the real point here?)And talking about winning games, did you WATCH those super bowls? Eli wasnt "on the winning team" - he was one of the key, if not THE key reason they won.

Now, you can argue he is not quite elite, but to say he is "above average" is a huge, huge minimization of the most clutch QB in the game today, period.

I agree. his stats are above average. but he (as a player)is elite.

it doesn't always show because their system rarely requires him to perform at an elite level. He has a solid defense and he puts up pretty good numbers.

what the stats don't show is how he elevates his game at key points in the game (or season) to pull out a win when needed. You cant teach that, and most of the stats we look at for fantasy football wont show it.

The stats also don't show that its a huge difference playing in Giants Stadium (yes, its still Giants stadium to some), especially second half of the year, as compared to N.O. or Dallas. How Rodgers does it I don't know, but he had been at a level above elite for a while - I presume he will regain that form this year but it has not quite looked that way, dating back to when the Giants dominated them last year in the Playoffs.The Giants also have been transitioning slowly into the passing orientation of the league. Coughlin would still prefer to have a more balanced attack, which had limited Eli more early on in his career. However, he's really taken his game to a new level beginning last year to provide consistency and stats along with an uncanny ability to find a way to win, late in games.

Well, the reason Eli put up elite numbers last year was due to the injury to Bradshaw. When he went down, Eli had to elevate his game. What you got was a career year for Eli.I dont know that I'd want to consider those numbers as the new normal for Eli. I think with the running game putting up 100 yards + per game, his stats will drop down to his usual 260-270 yards per game on average. If the run game is ineffective, then I would expect his stats to go back up.

 

[habsfan]

Tough crowd in here but that seems to be Eli's destiny. No matter what the guy does, being "elite" always requires that he do something more.

 

[GeauxTigers]

He is almost perfect tonight. No Nicks, No Ahmad, No line, No problem for Eli. The guy is really good. Hell he makes people like Barden, Bennett, Brown look good. Yes, even the salsa dancer was made by Eli.

Eli did not look that good. He made at least 4 throws that were in poor judgement and would have been picked off by competent CBs. Eli is good in spurts but he has questionable decision making ability when playing with a lead.

Oh give me a break.

 

[Koya]

I think he's close to elite, but not quite.

More like e-lite.

What would he have to do in order for you to say he is elite?

TD : INT ratio greater than 2 : 1 (he's only done that once in eight seasons, in 2008 when he was 21 : 10). He was 29 : 16 last year, 31 : 25 in 2010, and is 189 : 132 for his career before last night. Elite QBs top that ratio most years, not just once. By the way, the 31 TDs in 2010 was the only time he has topped 30 TDs, another mark elite QBs regularly exceed.Overall INTs need to come down. He has 132 INTs in 123 career games before last night, and that includes 16 last year and 25 in 2010. Brady has 116 INTs in 163 games, P Manning 201 INTs in 210 games (and was consistently 10 INTs and under several years in a row in his elite seasons), Romo 74 in 101, Rodgers 40 in 71, Brees 150 in 156.

Completion % improvement. He's never topped 63% for a season (his best is 62.8% in 2010), was 60.9% last year, and is 58.5% for his career before last night. For comparison, career completion % for these guys (and this takes into account the poorer "growing pains" years): Brady 63.9%, P Manning 64.9%, Romo 64.5%, Rodgers 65.5%, Brees 65.8%.

I guess it depends on how one defines elite, but to me elite doesn't mean just being a top-12 QB. It means cream of the crop top-3 or 4 at his position. Otherwise we are just watering down the word elite.



He's an above average QB, and he's been on two Super Bowl winning teams which, in the eyes of some but not me, makes him elite. If we're going to factor in wins, which I don't have the time or energy right now to do, it should be overall wins/losses, and on that count Eli would fall far short of guys like Brady, P Manning, Rodgers, Brees.

To the stats, you have a point - however that changed big time last year. His stats were great, catching up to his innate ability to somehow just win games (isn't that the real point here?)And talking about winning games, did you WATCH those super bowls? Eli wasnt "on the winning team" - he was one of the key, if not THE key reason they won.

Now, you can argue he is not quite elite, but to say he is "above average" is a huge, huge minimization of the most clutch QB in the game today, period.

I agree. his stats are above average. but he (as a player)is elite.

it doesn't always show because their system rarely requires him to perform at an elite level. He has a solid defense and he puts up pretty good numbers.

what the stats don't show is how he elevates his game at key points in the game (or season) to pull out a win when needed. You cant teach that, and most of the stats we look at for fantasy football wont show it.

The stats also don't show that its a huge difference playing in Giants Stadium (yes, its still Giants stadium to some), especially second half of the year, as compared to N.O. or Dallas. How Rodgers does it I don't know, but he had been at a level above elite for a while - I presume he will regain that form this year but it has not quite looked that way, dating back to when the Giants dominated them last year in the Playoffs.The Giants also have been transitioning slowly into the passing orientation of the league. Coughlin would still prefer to have a more balanced attack, which had limited Eli more early on in his career. However, he's really taken his game to a new level beginning last year to provide consistency and stats along with an uncanny ability to find a way to win, late in games.

Well, the reason Eli put up elite numbers last year was due to the injury to Bradshaw. When he went down, Eli had to elevate his game. What you got was a career year for Eli.I dont know that I'd want to consider those numbers as the new normal for Eli. I think with the running game putting up 100 yards + per game, his stats will drop down to his usual 260-270 yards per game on average. If the run game is ineffective, then I would expect his stats to go back up.

So, Eli loses a running game and has his best season even though teams could squarely key on the passing game. And you hold that against him?Now, they would like to have more balance, but I'd expect that while you may see more of the 250-300 yard games (hardly poor), they will remain more efficient. He does seem to have a better handle on the TO's (although the first half of last week was a mess) and will always be a bit of a gunslinger - but I'd rather have Eli's gunslinging and ability to win in the clutch than any number of other gunslingers, even those in or on their way to the Hall (i.e Favre).

It seems typically unfair to hold last years lack of running game against him though.

 

[Koya]

Tough crowd in here but that seems to be Eli's destiny. No matter what the guy does, being "elite" always requires that he do something more.

As a Giants fan (so yes, I'm biased, but also especially critical), that destiny has included 2 Super Bowl victories that would never have happened without Eli (he was the MVP no just for the game, but for each of the marches to the Super Bowl, underdogs along the way for both) and quite possibly (probably at this point) a HoF induction.

 

[Sweet Love]

Eli is now and has been for the last 2 years one of the most underrated QBs and players in the NFL. I just don't get why so many people want to dismiss how good this guy is. He's a top 5 QB in the game IMO. He isn't flashy or outspoken, he just gets it done consistently. Last night he had a great pocket to work with and no matter how bad your weapons are an elite QB will pick you apart when he has time to throw. Which Eli did.

I agree...one thing I look at is "what have the guys you've helped to make famous done without you"...we have Manningham (7-57 through two weeks...the guy who replaced him just went off for 9-138 in Barden), Steve Smith (I get it, he got hurt, but there is a chance he does not even accumulate the 107-1220-7 he got in 2009 for the rest of his career) and finally, Kevin Boss...I believe if you open the fridge, you will see his likeness on the milk carton. No one has even maintained, let alone excelled without having Manning as their QB. That shows me what a QB can do. We credited Favre for putting Schroeder on the map, and Warner for making a career for Azir-Hakim, yet we question what this guy does for his "pieces"?

 

[Trenchcoat]

Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Matt Shaub, 2012 Peyton Manning, and Matt Stafford. I believe Eli is in that group somewhere below the median. Rodgers, Brady, and Brees are just on another plane. When he's clicking he's about the 6th best QB in the league and most of the time he's closer to 9th.

I hate the rings argument. There are quite a few QBs who could be SB winners in the correct situation. Where is Terry Bradshaw on the all time great QB list?

All the QBs I listed had the potential to take that Giants team the distance last year. The team itself seems to get so little credit. Did you remember that preseason last year the Giants were seen as one of the NFC's likely SB reps? Late in the season and through playoffs, the Giants front 4 on defense were unstoppable. I also think the Patriots were not as good as advertised coming into the SB last year. The quality of AFC teams has slipped in the past couple years. Half the NFC playoff teams would have taken that game.

I'm a 49ers fan, so I have no homerism for QBs. I know Alex Smith is average or below. Giants fans should just be happy they have a QB competent enough to get them there by making the plays he is able. This demanding that he be recognized as elite seems like resentment at being unfavorably compared to Peyton for years.

 

[jdubs952]

Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Matt Shaub, 2012 Peyton Manning, and Matt Stafford. I believe Eli is in that group somewhere below the median. Rodgers, Brady, and Brees are just on another plane. When he's clicking he's about the 6th best QB in the league and most of the time he's closer to 9th.I hate the rings argument. There are quite a few QBs who could be SB winners in the correct situation. Where is Terry Bradshaw on the all time great QB list? All the QBs I listed had the potential to take that Giants team the distance last year. The team itself seems to get so little credit. Did you remember that preseason last year the Giants were seen as one of the NFC's likely SB reps? Late in the season and through playoffs, the Giants front 4 on defense were unstoppable. I also think the Patriots were not as good as advertised coming into the SB last year. The quality of AFC teams has slipped in the past couple years. Half the NFC playoff teams would have taken that game.I'm a 49ers fan, so I have no homerism for QBs. I know Alex Smith is average or below. Giants fans should just be happy they have a QB competent enough to get them there by making the plays he is able. This demanding that he be recognized as elite seems like resentment at being unfavorably compared to Peyton for years.

122 active games streak, 2 superbowl mvps, a couple of nice TD passes against your 49ers after getting absolutely abused in that game, most road playoff victories, career year last year despite having the worst pass blocking offensive line from all advanced metrics around pass blocking, won 6 must win games to end the year last year with the 32nd rated rushing game, and you lump him in with Schaub, Romo, Rivers, etc?

 

[Trenchcoat]

Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Matt Shaub, 2012 Peyton Manning, and Matt Stafford. I believe Eli is in that group somewhere below the median. Rodgers, Brady, and Brees are just on another plane. When he's clicking he's about the 6th best QB in the league and most of the time he's closer to 9th.I hate the rings argument. There are quite a few QBs who could be SB winners in the correct situation. Where is Terry Bradshaw on the all time great QB list? All the QBs I listed had the potential to take that Giants team the distance last year. The team itself seems to get so little credit. Did you remember that preseason last year the Giants were seen as one of the NFC's likely SB reps? Late in the season and through playoffs, the Giants front 4 on defense were unstoppable. I also think the Patriots were not as good as advertised coming into the SB last year. The quality of AFC teams has slipped in the past couple years. Half the NFC playoff teams would have taken that game.I'm a 49ers fan, so I have no homerism for QBs. I know Alex Smith is average or below. Giants fans should just be happy they have a QB competent enough to get them there by making the plays he is able. This demanding that he be recognized as elite seems like resentment at being unfavorably compared to Peyton for years.

122 active games streak, 2 superbowl mvps, a couple of nice TD passes against your 49ers after getting absolutely abused in that game, most road playoff victories, career year last year despite having the worst pass blocking offensive line from all advanced metrics around pass blocking, won 6 must win games to end the year last year with the 32nd rated rushing game, and you lump him in with Schaub, Romo, Rivers, etc?

Guess I should have clarified I harbor zero resentment against anyone other than Kyle Williams for that game. Also, Rivers, Rome, and Shaub are pretty good company.

 

[Johnny Blood]

I think it is his stupid face and demeanor that has deflated his perceived FF value the last few years. This is probably the last year you can get him at such a discount. Despite last season it was easy and cheap to get him in my leagues.

 

[Dentist]

Eli is a very good QB who's been the leader of 2 of the flukiest teams ever to win the super bowl.

I'll give credit to him that he knows how to get hot in January. He's single-handedly kept Brady from being the undisputed GOAT...

In addition he has a major one-up over Peyton with that 2nd ring.... for that i'll give him props.

 

[Koya]

Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Matt Shaub, 2012 Peyton Manning, and Matt Stafford. I believe Eli is in that group somewhere below the median. Rodgers, Brady, and Brees are just on another plane. When he's clicking he's about the 6th best QB in the league and most of the time he's closer to 9th.I hate the rings argument. There are quite a few QBs who could be SB winners in the correct situation. Where is Terry Bradshaw on the all time great QB list? All the QBs I listed had the potential to take that Giants team the distance last year. The team itself seems to get so little credit. Did you remember that preseason last year the Giants were seen as one of the NFC's likely SB reps? Late in the season and through playoffs, the Giants front 4 on defense were unstoppable. I also think the Patriots were not as good as advertised coming into the SB last year. The quality of AFC teams has slipped in the past couple years. Half the NFC playoff teams would have taken that game.I'm a 49ers fan, so I have no homerism for QBs. I know Alex Smith is average or below. Giants fans should just be happy they have a QB competent enough to get them there by making the plays he is able. This demanding that he be recognized as elite seems like resentment at being unfavorably compared to Peyton for years.

122 active games streak, 2 superbowl mvps, a couple of nice TD passes against your 49ers after getting absolutely abused in that game, most road playoff victories, career year last year despite having the worst pass blocking offensive line from all advanced metrics around pass blocking, won 6 must win games to end the year last year with the 32nd rated rushing game, and you lump him in with Schaub, Romo, Rivers, etc?

Its a terribly spurious argument. It's one thing if you are Jim McMahon with an all time great defense and perhaps the best RB that's ever played the game. Eli WAS the reason, at least offensively, that the Giants both MADE each super bowl (on the road mind you) and WON each of them.To say he is below average in this list is either insulting, or not watching the realities out there: Tony Romo - Great stats, but where is the heart, the leadership - the playoff victories? It's not close. You'd really rather have Romo than Eli as your QB, all things considered? Jay Cutler - Stop it. Not worth justifying.Philip Rivers - Maybe he puts it together this year, and he has shown heart, but has nothing NEAR the career of Eli, and had one of the best RB's ever for a while early on.Ben Roethlisberger - Closest one on this list and his biggest issue is health moving forward. He's won two SBs, although he was awful in one, but has been clutch and a winner.Matt Ryan - Yes, he's been hyped this year. But the guy has had nothing of a career yet. Talk to me after two SBs. Or even one. Making it that is, not even winning. Matt Shaub - I think he's underated as well, but has perhaps the best RB in the game right now (certainly the best running attack) and well, needs to win, um, something2012 Peyton Manning - Really too early to tell. But even Peyton at his best was nothing close to Eli in the clutch, although he was a god during the regular seasonMatt Stafford - One great statistical season does not a career make.Eli is at WORST #2 on this list, and that would imo be the strong consensus of those who are in NFL circles. The only one you could argue above him would be Roeths, but how could you not prefer Eli moving forward with the health concerns. Romo might be in the discussion, but you have to win. It's not about looking cute and getting stats nor is it about going on vacation before choking it up in the playoffs. The others are not in the discussion. At all. Below the median. That's laughable here, sorry.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Eli is a very good QB who's been the leader of 2 of the flukiest teams ever to win the super bowl. I'll give credit to him that he knows how to get hot in January. He's single-handedly kept Brady from being the undisputed GOAT... In addition he has a major one-up over Peyton with that 2nd ring.... for that i'll give him props.

Last year's superbowl win was a fluke? Looked pretty clear to me that the Giants were the better team both before and after that game.

 

[Koya]

Eli is a very good QB who's been the leader of 2 of the flukiest teams ever to win the super bowl. I'll give credit to him that he knows how to get hot in January. He's single-handedly kept Brady from being the undisputed GOAT... In addition he has a major one-up over Peyton with that 2nd ring.... for that i'll give him props.

I don't know that you can say they were flukes. A fluke can happen in a game. Maybe over the course of two. But, for two SB runs, both on the road against great competition, including beating the in the discussion for greatest of all time (and gunning for undefeated) 1 lost Pack last year, and the undefeated, about to be GOAT Pats? Two of the most unlikely winners, but hardly flukes. Flukes are accidents by happenstance. The Giants may have been lucky to make the playoffs last year, but once they were in, there was nothing fluky about their ability - and without Eli, they'd not even be close.

 

[Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub]

And Bennett's gonna have the year people were saying Finley was going to have last year.

 

[Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub]

Eli is a very good QB who's been the leader of 2 of the flukiest teams ever to win the super bowl. I'll give credit to him that he knows how to get hot in January. He's single-handedly kept Brady from being the undisputed GOAT... In addition he has a major one-up over Peyton with that 2nd ring.... for that i'll give him props.

A very good QB.A future HOF QB.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Eli is a very good QB who's been the leader of 2 of the flukiest teams ever to win the super bowl.

I'll give credit to him that he knows how to get hot in January. He's single-handedly kept Brady from being the undisputed GOAT...

In addition he has a major one-up over Peyton with that 2nd ring.... for that i'll give him props.

This has gotten old. Why even have a playoffs? Might as well just say the team who has the best record at the end of the regular season wins.

Heck maybe we can revert to college and just put what "appears" to be the top 2 teams in the championship game.

 

[Dentist]

Eli is a very good QB who's been the leader of 2 of the flukiest teams ever to win the super bowl. I'll give credit to him that he knows how to get hot in January. He's single-handedly kept Brady from being the undisputed GOAT... In addition he has a major one-up over Peyton with that 2nd ring.... for that i'll give him props.

Last year's superbowl win was a fluke? Looked pretty clear to me that the Giants were the better team both before and after that game.

hot run in january. A 9-7 team shouldn't even qualify for the playoffs. Admittedly that flaw isn't the Giants or Eli's fault, it's the fault of the NFL for devising a playoff that is designed to generate revenue and not crown the best team

 

[Dentist]

I don't know that you can say they were flukes.

1) helmet catch2) wes welker drop2 fluke plays that led to them winning.admittedly the patriots should not have let the game be close enough for those plays to matter.

 

[Squintz82]

I don't know that you can say they were flukes.

1) helmet catch2) wes welker drop2 fluke plays that led to them winning.admittedly the patriots should not have let the game be close enough for those plays to matter.

Giants D forcing safety on Brady's first play of the game?Absolutely perfect pass to Maningham in double coverage?Could be played both ways