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Eli Manning HoF? (1 Viewer)

dcgangstas said:
Eli will get in .  

Troy Aikman's numbers are relatively pedestrian in comparison to his contemporaries,  but three SB Rings made him a first-ballot lock.  
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Aikman had 3 all-pro's.  Eli Manning has none.  Aikman was considered one of the best QB's of his era, Eli never was.

Brees, Peyton, Favre, etc.. had tons.

Even Roethlisberger has 1 2nd team all-pro.  Rivers has two. Ryan has a bunch.  Carson Palmer got some. Eli Manning has NONE.  Not so much a 2nd teamer on one of the various sites.  Never even cracked the top 30 on the NFL "Top 100 players" list.  I mean even Joe Flacco pulled in a #19 on that.

 
I sure hope not.

I have utter disdain for the Hall of Fame process. There is as many RBs in the HoF as there are OL - even though there are 5x as many OL on the field.

The HoF voters are ill-informed journalists. So Eli will get in because he has the rings. And like Aikman, he will be undeserving. 

 
babydemon90 said:
Aikman had 3 all-pro's. 
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Aikman made it to 6 Pro Bowl selections, but he never was All-NFL or All-Pro according to Pro Football Reference.  

He never threw for more than 3500 yards or 25 TDs in any one season.   That's not in Elway's or Marino's or Warren Moon's class.  

 
dcgangstas said:
Aikman made it to 6 Pro Bowl selections, but he never was All-NFL or All-Pro according to Pro Football Reference.  

He never threw for more than 3500 yards or 25 TDs in any one season.   That's not in Elway's or Marino's or Warren Moon's class.  
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Elway and Moon were also never All-Pro. At least not 1st team, which is the only one that matters.

 
I think Manning gets in because of Super Bowls and Marino and Kelly discussions previously.

I only think he was good to very good. Never the best, maybe not top 5. JWB would know.

I'm more inclined to suggest Brees, Rivers, Brady and others. Eli better get in quick because I think he'll lose to them in a don't vote 2 QBs in one year way

 
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Another thing that shouldn't matter but may help Eli is timing.

Looking at this by HOF induction timeline:

  • Aikman and Moon were inducted in the HOF class of 2006.
  • Favre and Stabler were the next QBs inducted, in the HOF class of 2016.
  • Warner was in the HOF class of 2017.
  • Peyton will be in the HOF class of 2021 (first ballot).
  • It seems safe to assume that Brady, Brees, Rivers, and Roethlisberger will all play in 2019 and maybe longer.
If Eli retires after this season, he will be eligible in the HOF class of 2024, after a period of 17 years in which just 4 QBs were inducted, only 3 of whom played in 2001 or later. (Assuming they don't come to their senses and induct Ken Anderson before then.) Lock/potential HOF peers Brady, Brees, Rivers, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers will not yet be eligible based on the assumption above.

I could easily see the voters putting Eli in first ballot in that scenario.

 
Bri said:
I only think he was good to very good. Never the best, maybe not top 5. JWB would know.
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He was definitely never top 5. Not when his career overlapped with all of Favre, Warner, Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers. At least 5 of them were playing and were better than Eli in every season of his career. That's without even getting into guys like Romo, Ryan, Wilson, Stafford, Newton, et al.

 
babydemon90 said:
Aikman had 3 all-pro's.  Eli Manning has none.  Aikman was considered one of the best QB's of his era, Eli never was.

Brees, Peyton, Favre, etc.. had tons.

Even Roethlisberger has 1 2nd team all-pro.  Rivers has two. Ryan has a bunch.  Carson Palmer got some. Eli Manning has NONE.  Not so much a 2nd teamer on one of the various sites.  Never even cracked the top 30 on the NFL "Top 100 players" list.  I mean even Joe Flacco pulled in a #19 on that.
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Just goes to show you that said list possibly should not hold that much weight then...

 
This is what I posted in the Eli Manning thread a couple of weeks ago:

I believe Eli Manning will get into the Hall of Fame. I believe his 2 Super Bowl MVP's, his overall numbers due to playing a long time and never getting hurt, and his family name recognition will get him in.

As to whether he should get in, I don't think so. His QB rating rank among QB's by year is as follows: 23rd, 18th, 25th, 15th,  11th, 17th, 7th, 14th, 35th, 15th, 13th, 22nd, and 25th. So only once in his career was he ranked in the top 10 in QB rating. So how about QBR, that is a little better (one less year because QBR started in 2005): 17th, 18th, 12th, 8th, 12th, 9th, 9th, 34th, 14th, 13th, 25th, and 26th. So 3 times in the top ten, none in the top 5. Keep in mind that QB rating and QBR factors in all the relevant passing stats: Completion %, TD %, Int. %, average yards per attempt, etc. If Eli were a running QB, you could say I am not factoring that in by looking at QB rating, but if there is anything Eli is not, it is a running QB.

So he is an average to good QB who had two good playoff runs at exactly the same time the Giants defense stepped it up. While I give Eli quite a bit of credit for the 2nd Super Bowl, the first one is due much more to the Giants defense holding Tom Brady and the Patriots offense to 14 points.

I think it is significant that other than the two super bowl seasons, Eli has not won a playoff game going 0-4. His QB ratings in those 4 loses? 35.0, 85.6, 40.7, 72.1.

Perhaps I have a bias against Eli because I am an Eagles fan and Eli's record is bad against the Eagles, 10-19 in the regular season and 0-2 in the playoffs. He is 4-17 in his last 21 games against the Eagles. Needless to say, I do not fear playing the Giants because of Eli Manning.

 
NeverEnough said:
Just goes to show you that said list possibly should not hold that much weight then...
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The top 100, of course not - but it IS a reflection that none of ELI's peers have ever held him in high esteem.  The complete lack of any All-Pro's (even a 2nd team)?  That should hold weight.

 
JohnnyU said:
Joe Namath is in the HOF with horrible stats and one game (albeit the most important game in NFL history) that put him in.  If he's in the HOF Eli has to be with what he's done.  /thread
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I think this is correct and the yardstick by which Eli does qualify.

I believe Namath has a losing record and is in the Hall. Good subsequent comments by @BobbyLayne, @JohnnyU, and @TheDirtyWord about how times/environment helped Namath, but regardless of those circumstances, this is the bar the Hall has set, and by that bar Eli seems to absolutely qualify.

Agree with those that say that Manning doesn't subjectively seem like a HOF QB, but his comparative stats and achievements seem to qualify him based on existing standards.

 
Allow me to retort . . . (and remember, I begrudgingly already said he will get in).

Here are Eli's annual passer ratings (based on QB's with at least 100 passing attempts in each season). Note that other peripheral things are not represented here (fumbles, winning %, sacks, rushing yardage, rushing TDs, poor decision-making, etc.), all of which would only serve to HURT his overall performance assessment.

2018 - 20
2017 - 29
2016 - 24
2015 - 14
2014 - 16
2013 - 40
2012 - 16
2011 - 7
2010 - 20
2009 - 12
2008 - 15
2007 - 32
2006 - 24
2005 - 26
2004 - 39

Yes, boys and girls, that's exactly one season in the Top 10 in FIFTEEN years. His average yearly QB rating in those seasons is 22nd.

Eli's total yearly stats look better because he always plays. There certainly are more reasons not to love Eli as a potential HOFer. The Giants have made 6 playoff appearances, and that means 9 times they did not make the post season with Manning at QB. That's a 40% playoff rate. By comparison, Brady is at 88%, Big Ben is at 73%, Brees is at 47%, and Rivers 40%  (giving all of them playoff spots for this year). Oh . . . I almost forgot that Eli has received a grand total of ZERO regular season MVP votes over his career (which matches Roethlisberger, by the way). I could go on, but it won't make any difference. It would just be piling on. But he'll still get in.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Don't even get me started about how shafted Plunkett is by not ever being considered for the Hall relative to others who have been considered/accepted.
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Collectively, we should all strive to have only the truly great players enshrined in Canton. Plunkett was a decent player, but he had a 72-72 record as a starter to go along with a 164 TD to 199 INT ratio. He won 10 regular games in a season once in 15 years. Like Eli, he had two great post season runs, but he was very vanilla the rest of his career. No All Pro selections (not even a single Pro Bowl selection). He was SB MVP once. If he won the other one, would that suddenly make him a HOFer?

 
Anarchy99 said:
Collectively, we should all strive to have only the truly great players enshrined in Canton. Plunkett was a decent player, but he had a 72-72 record as a starter to go along with a 164 TD to 199 INT ratio. He won 10 regular games in a season once in 15 years. Like Eli, he had two great post season runs, but he was very vanilla the rest of his career. No All Pro selections (not even a single Pro Bowl selection). He was SB MVP once. If he won the other one, would that suddenly make him a HOFer?
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I told you not to get me started. ;)

I definitely get the arguments against Plunkett, and keenly know that I'm in the vast minority opinion on this one. And agree that the Hall should be for the truly great, not devolve into what the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is (you let The Cure in, but no Jethro Tull?!?!?!).

That said, that's not what the HoF is, sadly, and it's simply my opinion that, given who else the Hall saw fit to let in its hallowed doors, Plunkett should be there as well. The only QB in NFL history to win multiple Super Bowls without being enshrined.

Moving on....

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
I think this is correct and the yardstick by which Eli does qualify.

I believe Namath has a losing record and is in the Hall. Good subsequent comments by @BobbyLayne, @JohnnyU, and @TheDirtyWord about how times/environment helped Namath, but regardless of those circumstances, this is the bar the Hall has set, and by that bar Eli seems to absolutely qualify.

Agree with those that say that Manning doesn't subjectively seem like a HOF QB, but his comparative stats and achievements seem to qualify him based on existing standards.
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Namath was a lot better than Eli though. He was arguably the 2nd best QB in the AFL for a few years, and led the league on passing yards on multiple occasions. 

Eli was Jim Hart on a better team. 

Stompin' Tom Connors said:
I told you not to get me started. ;)

I definitely get the arguments against Plunkett, and keenly know that I'm in the vast minority opinion on this one. And agree that the Hall should be for the truly great, not devolve into what the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is (you let The Cure in, but no Jethro Tull?!?!?!).

That said, that's not what the HoF is, sadly, and it's simply my opinion that, given who else the Hall saw fit to let in its hallowed doors, Plunkett should be there as well. The only QB in NFL history to win multiple Super Bowls without being enshrined.

Moving on....
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Rings speak louder than everything else for some really silly reasons when it comes to judging individual players, but Plunkett would be my 3rd choice just among Raider QB's who aren't in the Hall. Lamonica and Gannon are more deserving in my opinion. Gannon was an MVP candidate every year from 99-02, winning it once, and carrying a mostly over the hill Raiders team to a Super Bowl. Lamonica was the 3rd best QB in the AFL, and was in my opinion the best QB in Raider history. 

I think my argument is also that longevity is overrated, especially when so much of that time consists of mediocre performance.

 
His last name along with two magical playoff runs to the promise land are probably going to be enough. It's more about how you will be remembered and not what's forgettable.

I don't necessarily agree with it because I never felt he was one of the best QBs in a given year much less over the course of his career but he was a model citizen and when you couple that with the above, there's no way he gets denied IMO.

 
babydemon90 said:
Looking deeper - I don't think there is a SINGLE QB in the HOF without any All-Pro's to their name.  
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Roger Staubach, John Elway, Warren Moon, and Troy Aikman were never All-Pros. Joe Namath and George Blanda were never All-Pros in the NFL, but they were 1st Team All-Pro in the AFL (I guess Namath's award kind of counts because it happened in the Super Bowl era).

 
IMO Eli deserves to get into the HOF as much as he deserved to win his 1st Super Bowl MVP - not at all.  Unfortunately, just like with him winning that Super Bowl MVP, he will get into the HOF.

 
No way!  If Eli gets in, you'll have to put Aikman in, too!

eta:  The HOF is for The Best of the Best.  At no point in his career did he meet that criterion. 

 
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I still say no

the NFL is the ultimate team sport and judging guys by stats is dicey in many cases

Eli simply never passed the eyeball test..he had a few good seasons....the name, the rings and the cumulative s might put him over the top, but opponents never feared facing him.

 
The answer is no way.

All you have to do is go the Pro Football HOF website and look up the 26 QBs that are in the HOF during the modern era.  It's an amazing list of the best QBs of all time.  

Peyton Manning will be inducted in 2021.  Within the next 10 years, Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Roethlisberger will all get in.

Does anyone think that Eli should be compared to these all time greats?  No way.  Basically Eli was an average NFL QB that played for a long time and won 2 Super Bowls, more or less due to their defense.  There is nothing about Eli's game that signals "great".

That said, every NFL QB that has won 2 or more Super Bowls is either in the HOF or will be inducted soon, with the exception of Jim Plunkett (who is similar to Eli in that he was an average NFL QB that won two Super Bowls).  So Eli is very likely to get in.  But he's nowhere near one of the NFL great QBs.

 
Let's put it this way, I would rather have Ken Anderson, Phil Simms, Archie Manning, Boomer Esiason, Randall Cunningham, John Brodie, or Roman Gabriel over Eli Manning and none of them are in the HOF.

 
As a basis for comparison, Aaron Rodgers has only one season worse than Eli's best season in passer rating . . . so 11 of his 12 years as a starter. Using Eli's best year in passer rating as the barometer, Brees has had 13 seasons above that. Peyton had 11 and Brady has 10.

 
Just realized this thread was a year plus old.  Enjoy the likes and laughs everyone, you made some good points dissing the lesser manning last year.

 
Unfortunately, yes.

not gonna beat a dead horse. There’s 37 pages of debate about this on the ElI Manning topic. 

hes 1st ballot HOF & never led the league in the era in which he played in anything except interceptions. Twice. 
:deadhorse:

 
Aikman and Eli both played on teams that ran the ball and played defense.......if it came down to it though, in both of their primes, Aikman >>>>>>>>> Eli.......to put it another way, in their primes, if asked or needed to do more, I'd take Aikman every time.......don't forget that at the beginning and end of Aikmans career he was on HORRIBLE Cowboys teams.

 
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Eli will get into the HOF because in two seasons the team that he was QB on went on 4-0 runs to win the Superbowl. If you take away those two playoff runs, his career stats, team record, and playoff performances in other seasons (0-4) would not be near enough to get him into the hall of fame.

If I ruled the world, the football HOF would have a wing for great players and a wing for players with great accomplishments. The great players would still get busts on themselves, and the players with great accomplishments would maybe get a nice plaque. Eli would belong in the wing for players with great accomplishments.

 
Yes, because the NFL hall of fame let's everyone in. 

To clarify I don't think he should be in, but I think the NFL has pretty loose standards for making it.  It's not like baseball where the threshold is very high and you have to be truly one of the best players ever to play. 

 
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He's parlayed two tremendous late season/playoff stretches into 2 SB rings and a HOF enshrinement. There is no way a multiple ring winning QB is left out- that is just the reality of positional importance. 

Short of the rings and those two stretches- the epitome of mediocrity: a stat compiler who leverages longevity into enough yardage and TD passes to get in. 

He would not get my vote. 

 
Ack88 said:
He's parlayed two tremendous late season/playoff stretches into 2 SB rings and a HOF enshrinement. There is no way a multiple ring winning QB is left out- that is just the reality of positional importance. 

Short of the rings and those two stretches- the epitome of mediocrity: a stat compiler who leverages longevity into enough yardage and TD passes to get in. 

He would not get my vote. 
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Jim Plunkett won two SB's and won't sniff enshrinement. He had a .500 lifetime winning percentage (very similar to Eli) and was a SB MVP. But he tossed 20 TD's only one time and generally did not appear among the league leaders in key passing categories very often. He never was selected to a Pro Bowl but went 8-2 in the postseason. The only way Plunkett could get in would be as a Veteran's Committee selection (and I haven't heard much campaigning for him for that). He only started 10+ games in 8 of his 15 seasons (and in the prime of his career played an entire season as a back up and did not see the field).

A better question to me would be what would happen if Joe Flacco ended up on a team with a great defense, the starter went down, and then he led a miraculous SB winning run. That would give him 2 SB victories, at least one SB MVP, and potentially a 13-5 post season record. He already has won more road playoffs games than any other QB (7 wins).

 
Still blows my mind that Eli beat Brady twice and was MVP in both SB's......I mean, his defenses harassed the #### out of Brady, but he still won the MVP's......I think that gets him in, period.

 
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dhockster said:
Eli will get into the HOF because in two seasons the team that he was QB on went on 4-0 runs to win the Superbowl. If you take away those two playoff runs, his career stats, team record, and playoff performances in other seasons (0-4) would not be near enough to get him into the hall of fame.

If I ruled the world, the football HOF would have a wing for great players and a wing for players with great accomplishments. The great players would still get busts on themselves, and the players with great accomplishments would maybe get a nice plaque. Eli would belong in the wing for players with great accomplishments.
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You left out the most important stat: his last name. 💡 

 
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