Email trading ethics? (1 Viewer)

[beerbarron]

14 team full dynasty.. Deep rosters..

Owner sends me an email stating would you trade player x for player y. In an email I say lets work something out.

So I send him an official offer.. player x for y plus his third round which is 3.05 for my third round which is 3.10.. He denies. Resend another offer the next day same players x for y plus his 4th, 4.05 for my 4th 4.10. Denied. So I send him the 'offer' originally mentioned in his email to me, player x for y straight up.. He sits on it, makes some other trades and then denies it.

Almost seems like he is mining for info on my values of his and my players and has no interest in trading.. just fishing for info..

Does this happen a lot to anyone out there and... it seems unessesary.. our draft starts shortly and its not a major player trade.. but frustrating...

 

[DoubleG]

Honeslty, I think you might be being a little over sensetive.

He probably sent out several emails and got either an offer he liked better or a quicker response. It's also possible that the "other trades" he made affected his team such that a trade with you didn't make sense. No big deal. BTW, the fact that he made other trades shows he is interested in trading and not "just fishing", just for whatever reason, didn't make a deal with you.

Nothing is "official" until it posts on the website. I don't care if a guy handshakes, double-pinky swears, and crosses his heart 43 times with one hand and his other hand on a Bible - I don't "expect" a trade until he hits "ACCEPT" on the league's website.

Email (and phone calls) are informational. Aint nothing wrong with throwing some offers out and if someone else responds with a better offer, oh well. The only thing I would consider being even remotely "bothered" (and even that's too strong a word) by is if he were trying to move Player A and you offered him a trade and another owner offered him a trade that he thought was better, and he didn't come back and give you a chance to beat the other offer. Part of that is just poor management by him though - if he's not smart enough to play two owners off against each other in a bidding war - oh well. Frustrating? Maybe. Intentionally screwing with you and "data mining"? Ummm...no.

 

[fruity pebbles]

14 team full dynasty.. Deep rosters..Owner sends me an email stating would you trade player x for player y. In an email I say lets work something out. So I send him an official offer.. player x for y plus his third round which is 3.05 for my third round which is 3.10.. He denies. Resend another offer the next day same players x for y plus his 4th, 4.05 for my 4th 4.10. Denied. So I send him the 'offer' originally mentioned in his email to me, player x for y straight up.. He sits on it, makes some other trades and then denies it. Almost seems like he is mining for info on my values of his and my players and has no interest in trading.. just fishing for info..Does this happen a lot to anyone out there and... it seems unessesary.. our draft starts shortly and its not a major player trade.. but frustrating...

Yeah he was probably on the fence with the offer and wanted your thoughts before thinking it through more. You lost a lot of leverage by officially proposing it as now he had a fall back deal he could spend time and better.

 

[Zimm]

When people ask me to iron out a trade by talking i always just say send me an offer, And i insure them i don't play the damn cat and mouse game of sending offers back and fourth (Kinda irks me)where they start by trying to pull your pants down around your ankles and then move to the back rub and eventually to the hand shake. If they want to talk trade the best way to do things so they don't get the upper hand is to say send me an offer and if its close ill counter if its not i have better things to be doing.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Honeslty, I think you might be being a little over sensetive.

 

[beerbarron]

14 team full dynasty.. Deep rosters..Owner sends me an email stating would you trade player x for player y. In an email I say lets work something out. So I send him an official offer.. player x for y plus his third round which is 3.05 for my third round which is 3.10.. He denies. Resend another offer the next day same players x for y plus his 4th, 4.05 for my 4th 4.10. Denied. So I send him the 'offer' originally mentioned in his email to me, player x for y straight up.. He sits on it, makes some other trades and then denies it. Almost seems like he is mining for info on my values of his and my players and has no interest in trading.. just fishing for info..Does this happen a lot to anyone out there and... it seems unessesary.. our draft starts shortly and its not a major player trade.. but frustrating...

Yeah he was probably on the fence with the offer and wanted your thoughts before thinking it through more. You lost a lot of leverage by officially proposing it as now he had a fall back deal he could spend time and better.

He has not traded the player we talked about trading with anyone else.. He has made other trades in the meantime, unloading players for picks but still has the player he emailed me about. This has happened before with the same owner as he sends me, what seem like feelers, and I make an offer after he inquires and it has been rejected. I know nothing is final until a trade is accepted and everything is talk and all is fair until the accept button is hit, etc. Its not a big deal.. but it has happened more than twice... and just feels like data mining to me... I was going to send an email stating.. Just send me offers from this point forward.. Please no more email questions but that seemed excessive.... perhaps not..

 

[beerbarron]

Honeslty, I think you might be being a little over sensetive.

I thought the same thing.. but this has happened more than two times with the same owner....

 

[Zimm]

14 team full dynasty.. Deep rosters..Owner sends me an email stating would you trade player x for player y. In an email I say lets work something out. So I send him an official offer.. player x for y plus his third round which is 3.05 for my third round which is 3.10.. He denies. Resend another offer the next day same players x for y plus his 4th, 4.05 for my 4th 4.10. Denied. So I send him the 'offer' originally mentioned in his email to me, player x for y straight up.. He sits on it, makes some other trades and then denies it. Almost seems like he is mining for info on my values of his and my players and has no interest in trading.. just fishing for info..Does this happen a lot to anyone out there and... it seems unessesary.. our draft starts shortly and its not a major player trade.. but frustrating...

Yeah he was probably on the fence with the offer and wanted your thoughts before thinking it through more. You lost a lot of leverage by officially proposing it as now he had a fall back deal he could spend time and better.

He has not traded the player we talked about trading with anyone else.. He has made other trades in the meantime, unloading players for picks but still has the player he emailed me about. This has happened before with the same owner as he sends me, what seem like feelers, and I make an offer after he inquires and it has been rejected. I know nothing is final until a trade is accepted and everything is talk and all is fair until the accept button is hit, etc. Its not a big deal.. but it has happened more than twice... and just feels like data mining to me... I was going to send an email stating.. Just send me offers from this point forward.. Please no more email questions but that seemed excessive.... perhaps not..

People get cold feet on trades and if they are looking to move a player to you....Chances are they are trying to move that same player elsewhere. For future references don't talk via email send out offers or if they are interested in a player direct them to send you an offer.

 

[Shanahanigans]

This is the danger that comes with the counter-offer. By countering you give the guy more time to rethink his trade and sometimes this results in the trade being taken off the table. Sure sometimes it is a good idea to negotiate to get the most you possibly can, but if you like his initial proposal enough often it is better to accept the trade and not give the other owner the chance or time to rescind the offer. I mean you let 5 spots in the 4th round get in the way from you getting the player you wanted.

On the opposite end of the spectrum is what I call the "Blow Them Away Offer". This is when you offer a guy a ton for the stud you want(probably more than he is generally accepted to be worth) in order to blow him away enough that he accepts the offer relatively immediately, and doesn't think about it too much.

 

[beerbarron]

This is the danger that comes with the counter-offer. By countering you give the guy more time to rethink his trade and sometimes this results in the trade being taken off the table. Sure sometimes it is a good idea to negotiate to get the most you possibly can, but if you like his initial proposal enough often it is better to accept the trade and not give the other owner the chance or time to rescind the offer. I mean you let 5 spots in the 4th round get in the way from you getting the player you wanted.On the opposite end of the spectrum is what I call the "Blow Them Away Offer". This is when you offer a guy a ton for the stud you want(probably more than he is generally accepted to be worth) in order to blow him away enough that he accepts the offer relatively immediately, and doesn't think about it too much.

He never made me an offer.. He sent an email stating.. Would you trade player x for player y.. I sent an email saying lets work something out.. So I sent and official offer with the draft picks in it.. He denied that. he never countered with any offer.. I sent three official offers.. all of which were denied and never countered.. and the last official offer was exactly what he sent me an email stating.. would you do x for y...

 

[Shanahanigans]

This is the danger that comes with the counter-offer. By countering you give the guy more time to rethink his trade and sometimes this results in the trade being taken off the table. Sure sometimes it is a good idea to negotiate to get the most you possibly can, but if you like his initial proposal enough often it is better to accept the trade and not give the other owner the chance or time to rescind the offer. I mean you let 5 spots in the 4th round get in the way from you getting the player you wanted.On the opposite end of the spectrum is what I call the "Blow Them Away Offer". This is when you offer a guy a ton for the stud you want(probably more than he is generally accepted to be worth) in order to blow him away enough that he accepts the offer relatively immediately, and doesn't think about it too much.

He never made me an offer.. He sent an email stating.. Would you trade player x for player y.. I sent an email saying lets work something out.. So I sent and official offer with the draft picks in it.. He denied that. he never countered with any offer.. I sent three offers.. all of which were denied and never countered.. and the last official offer was exactly what he sent me an email stating.. would you do x for y...

I see how it is slightly different. In this case I would have replied, "Sounds good I will put the trade through." Then it is on him to either be a jerk and say nevermind, or just roll with it and accept the trade. By responding with the added draft picks you were essentially counter-offering him, and once there is a new offer on the table the previous offer is out the window.

 

[Zimm]

Well it seems he was just trying to feel out the players value, and he probably got an offer better then yours so there is no reason to be upset about it. It seems you got a little greedy asking for a little more and then he changed his mind.....So that is on you not him. I have had this happen to me several times holding out to get that little extra, But hey on to the next deal.

 

[gianmarco]

Some owners also don't like the nickel and diming and squeezing for all you can. He asked about an offer and you tried to squeeze 3rd and 4th round picks out. I'm not saying you should never try to get max value, but when you do it, especially for such small items like those picks, you run the risk of losing a trade. And it seems you did. I'd venture to guess if you had just sent the offer over straight to begin with, you'd have a deal done.

 

[rizzler]

Some owners also don't like the nickel and diming and squeezing for all you can. He asked about an offer and you tried to squeeze 3rd and 4th round picks out. I'm not saying you should never try to get max value, but when you do it, especially for such small items like those picks, you run the risk of losing a trade. And it seems you did. I'd venture to guess if you had just sent the offer over straight to begin with, you'd have a deal done.

is it worth moving up from 3.10 to 3.05 to you?how does that minute a difference relate to player x and y? do you feel your player is 5 spots in the 3rd round better?nickle and diming kills ya sometimes.... but we've all done it

 

[DoubleG]

Some owners also don't like the nickel and diming and squeezing for all you can. He asked about an offer and you tried to squeeze 3rd and 4th round picks out. I'm not saying you should never try to get max value, but when you do it, especially for such small items like those picks, you run the risk of losing a trade. And it seems you did. I'd venture to guess if you had just sent the offer over straight to begin with, you'd have a deal done.

I like the "back and forth" of trading - but not everyone does (Zimm posted as much earlier). Some people want to get a deal done. Others want to toss about scenarios, include a bunch of players, tweak it to meet that need or include that last little bit of "value" to make it balanced or even or whatever. Some people like ketchup on their hot dogs.

 

[beerbarron]

Some owners also don't like the nickel and diming and squeezing for all you can. He asked about an offer and you tried to squeeze 3rd and 4th round picks out. I'm not saying you should never try to get max value, but when you do it, especially for such small items like those picks, you run the risk of losing a trade. And it seems you did. I'd venture to guess if you had just sent the offer over straight to begin with, you'd have a deal done.

is it worth moving up from 3.10 to 3.05 to you?how does that minute a difference relate to player x and y? do you feel your player is 5 spots in the 3rd round better?nickle and diming kills ya sometimes.... but we've all done it

I might not have explained it well enough.. He never made me an offer.. He asked in an email if I would trade player x for y. So I initiated the official offer from the league website with the upgrade in draft picks.. I still think my player will produce more so that is why I asked for draft pick upgrade.. he cancelled.. I sent another with an upgrade in a later round.. he cancelled... He never countered.. So my last offer to him was the player for player trade in and official offer that he emailed me about as a question a few days before.. He declined that and never countered as well.. It all started after he sends me an email asking if i would trade player x for y two days ago.. After two offers, he gets the official offer of exactly what he asked me about trading a day and a half later and says no??Im not bitter, upset, etc.. Its trading.. and I understand this happens.. but it seemed like he had no intention of trading.. He could have sent a counter or included commentary to my three offers.. never happened.. so be it...

 

[beerbarron]

Some owners also don't like the nickel and diming and squeezing for all you can. He asked about an offer and you tried to squeeze 3rd and 4th round picks out. I'm not saying you should never try to get max value, but when you do it, especially for such small items like those picks, you run the risk of losing a trade. And it seems you did. I'd venture to guess if you had just sent the offer over straight to begin with, you'd have a deal done.

I like the "back and forth" of trading - but not everyone does (Zimm posted as much earlier). Some people want to get a deal done. Others want to toss about scenarios, include a bunch of players, tweak it to meet that need or include that last little bit of "value" to make it balanced or even or whatever. Some people like ketchup on their hot dogs.

I like the back and forth of trading as well.. part of the fun.... I like ketchup on my hotdogs too.. Anyone have any openings in any full dynasty IDP's with traders in it!! been playing IDP since 03!! I know.. there is another forum for that.. jk.. YOLO...

 

[squistion]

Some owners also don't like the nickel and diming and squeezing for all you can. He asked about an offer and you tried to squeeze 3rd and 4th round picks out. I'm not saying you should never try to get max value, but when you do it, especially for such small items like those picks, you run the risk of losing a trade. And it seems you did. I'd venture to guess if you had just sent the offer over straight to begin with, you'd have a deal done.

is it worth moving up from 3.10 to 3.05 to you?how does that minute a difference relate to player x and y? do you feel your player is 5 spots in the 3rd round better?

nickle and diming kills ya sometimes.... but we've all done it

I might not have explained it well enough.. He never made me an offer.. He asked in an email if I would trade player x for y. So I initiated the official offer from the league website with the upgrade in draft picks.. I still think my player will produce more so that is why I asked for draft pick upgrade.. he cancelled.. I sent another with an upgrade in a later round.. he cancelled... He never countered.. So my last offer to him was the player for player trade in and official offer that he emailed me about as a question a few days before.. He declined that and never countered as well..

It all started after he sends me an email asking if i would trade player x for y two days ago.. After two offers, he gets the official offer of exactly what he asked me about trading a day and a half later and says no??

Im not bitter, upset, etc.. Its trading.. and I understand this happens.. but it seemed like he had no intention of trading.. He could have sent a counter or included commentary to my three offers.. never happened.. so be it...

Sorry, but I see this as some others do. The bolded was the offer. Your response with the upgrade in draft picks was a counter offer IMO. He rejected the counter offer. The fact that at a later point in time he didn't accept what would have been the original offer doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't sincere to begin with - sometimes people rethink things and change their mind, or get cold feet, or ask their friends about the trade and are told it isn't a good deal.Anyway, in the future just immediately send the x for y offer or if you can't, send an email and qualify it by saying "I can't do a straight up trade, but could we include a swap of 3rd round draft picks?"

 

[Dave Stauff]

Just because he asked if YOU would trade player X for Player Y doesn't mean HE would - maybe he just respects your opinion

 

[beerbarron]

Just because he asked if YOU would trade player X for Player Y doesn't mean HE would - maybe he just respects your opinion

Lolol....

 

[whatadai]

He made the initial offer. You made the counter-offer. He denied. His value for the players changed when you made the new offer. Too much butt hurt over something so little. Who were the players by the way?

 

[Gandalf]

This is the danger that comes with the counter-offer. By countering you give the guy more time to rethink his trade and sometimes this results in the trade being taken off the table. Sure sometimes it is a good idea to negotiate to get the most you possibly can, but if you like his initial proposal enough often it is better to accept the trade and not give the other owner the chance or time to rescind the offer. I mean you let 5 spots in the 4th round get in the way from you getting the player you wanted.On the opposite end of the spectrum is what I call the "Blow Them Away Offer". This is when you offer a guy a ton for the stud you want(probably more than he is generally accepted to be worth) in order to blow him away enough that he accepts the offer relatively immediately, and doesn't think about it too much.

I use both strategies. I especially like the blow them away offer because often times its just better to have the stud than a lot of depth. Sidenote, this is similar to throwing out a player in an auction draft for slightly below fair value. For example, starting the bidding on Arian Foster at $35. Sometimes you surprise the other owners and people pass.

 

[Chairshot]

The way I view this stuff is that I don't consider anything an offer until it's offered thru the trade function of the league website. It's annoying when owners agree to a trade via email and then back out when it's time to make it official but making the website the only official way of making a trade is the only clean way to do it. It gets messy if a league has to honor emails, texts, IMs, phone calls, etc.

I also echo the nickle and diming points others have made. I've screwed myself over plenty in the past by getting too cute with tacking on little things to a trade that ultimately make little difference. As an aside, I think it can be one of the downside of using FBG ratings for analyzing trades. If the value is a little off, sometimes the tendency is to try to make it perfectly eve based on the analyzer, which is a mistake I have sometimes fallen into.

If it's close and it meets your needs, just pull the trigger. In retrospect, you should have just offered him what he offered you in the email. You would have a little better case to be PO'ed if he had backed out at that point.

 

[Patroclus]

He made the initial offer. You made the counter-offer. He denied. His value for the players changed when you made the new offer. Too much butt hurt over something so little. Who were the players by the way?

I have to agree with this. There are way to many butt hurt fantasy managers these days. Just go check the "worst trade thread".

 

[Phenix]

Typical fantasy football ethics and I also cannot believe this is a thread.

 

[krsone21]

I don't negotiate via IM or e-mail. If someone is inquiring about one of my players I just tell them to send me an offer and if I like it I will accept it or counter the offer.

 

[Sabertooth]

I prefer to talk in person. You'd be surprised how many more deals you can make in person. Or at least on the phone having a conversation.

 

[comfortably numb]

I don't negotiate via IM or e-mail. If someone is inquiring about one of my players I just tell them to send me an offer and if I like it I will accept it or counter the offer.

you must be a blast at parties

 

[rizzler]

Seriously - OP:

Can you answer the following question for us all (and me especially)

who were the players invovled and WHY did you feel making the "upgrade" from 3.10 to 3.05 was so important that you had to counter with it?

Did you have a specific player in mind that you thought would be there at 3.05 that wouldnt at 3.10?

I'm not trying to be a #####, but I dont see the logic whatsoever, in trying to squeeze that little juice from a rhino's horn.

 

[squistion]

I don't negotiate via IM or e-mail. If someone is inquiring about one of my players I just tell them to send me an offer and if I like it I will accept it or counter the offer.

I am in a league with someone like that, and as a result I usually don't send him any offers at all. By the way, in most leagues I am in, 80% of the time I do send an offer without a prior discussion - but sometimes I would like to know where the owner is coming from in respect to a certain player.The problem with people who refuse to discuss a player via email is that the person on the other end quite often has no idea if a player is untouchable, what the other owner might want in return, and quite often even why an offer is rejected (this person who won't negotiate via email always just flat out rejects with no explanation).Yes, your approach will save time with people who aren't serious at all, but I have found that discussions sometimes will lead to a trade being worked out (perhaps even for another player entirely) where just some back-and-forth offer and rejections will not.

 

[beerbarron]

Seriously - OP:

Can you answer the following question for us all (and me especially)

who were the players invovled and WHY did you feel making the "upgrade" from 3.10 to 3.05 was so important that you had to counter with it?

Did you have a specific player in mind that you thought would be there at 3.05 that wouldnt at 3.10?

I'm not trying to be a #####, but I dont see the logic whatsoever, in trying to squeeze that little juice from a rhino's horn.

Rizzler.. and anyone who must be fn bored out of their skull reading this...Ok.. There is a difference between and email and a trade proposal.. Trade proposals are made with emails sent from the site which include actual offers. The owner contacted me originally with an email, not a trade proposal, just asking me if I would trade player x for y.. I replied with an email, not a trade proposal, that we can work something out. No trade proposals have been offered yet. His email to me was for information about a possible trade and I guess to see if our values on the two players were close.

The owner first contacted me about this with an email question asking if you would trade this for that, It was not a trade proposal.

I then sent him an official trade proposal from the site. This was the first offer. I sent the first trade proposal to him from the site. His email to me was not an offer nor did he ever send or counter with a trade porposal or offer. I made every trade proposal, all were denied, never countered and never explained if we were close or not.

It is an IDP league with defensive players that score a lot of points. 14 out of the top 30 point scorers last year were defensive players, they do have a lot of value in this league.. Makes trading a lot mroe fun when all players have value.

My player in the trade is a full time defensive starter at a position that wieghted for players to score a lot of points. The player on his roster I was trading for is a RB who is third on the depth chart. I liked my starter more than a rb burried on the depth chart, but its an RB and he has some upside, so in my first trade proposal to him I asked for the minor pick upgrade. The owner recieved the proposal and denied it, never countered. I sent another trade proposal with pick upgrades in the fourth roundshortly after. This proposal was denied and not coutnered as well. No explanation given. I now send him a trade proposal with the player for player trade offered that he sent to me in an non trade offer email questioning me if I would trade this player for that only a few days ago, probably less than 36 hours.. IDK This trade proposal was denied and not countered as well.

Probably less than two days ago from when you ask about a possible trade interest and then when the exact offer is made in an official trade proposal.. It was denied.

Yeah players values change by the minute.. I get it.. but when you get an official trade proposal that is exactly like the players you asked in an email about 36 hours ago. at least give me an explanation or.. a reacharound.. crickey...

Hope this helps....

 

[GregR]

Count me amongst those who think there isn't anything wrong, ethically or otherwise, with what went on.

The other owner didn't necessarily take things to the hard offer stage, he as likely could have been feeling you out on possibilities at the same time he's feeling out others about the same player/position. It would be nice if he was more clear, but that doesn't excuse jumping to conclusions he's ready to make a trade and getting upset when he doesn't.

When I'm looking to move a player or fill a hole I'll often contact multiple owners who seem like potential trade partners. Mentioning a few players or possible swaps I may see as being potential deals does not equate to committing myself to making those trades. I do try to set the expectation I'm talking to other owners about similar deals to avoid someone getting unnecessarily upset, but someone isn't unethical if they aren't that careful in their wording.

I've felt for a long time that negotiations should be done via email/phone/person and a website should only be used to consummate a trade that both parties have then given firm (but still non-binding) agreement on. About the only time I'll send offers on the site where we don't have an agreement in place is a rare owner who I've found balks at agreeing to most any trade in discussions, but who if you leave him an offer on the site for a few days he may finally get comfortable with it and accept.

 

[Patroclus]

Seriously - OP:

Can you answer the following question for us all (and me especially)

who were the players invovled and WHY did you feel making the "upgrade" from 3.10 to 3.05 was so important that you had to counter with it?

Did you have a specific player in mind that you thought would be there at 3.05 that wouldnt at 3.10?

I'm not trying to be a #####, but I dont see the logic whatsoever, in trying to squeeze that little juice from a rhino's horn.

Rizzler.. and anyone who must be fn bored out of their skull reading this...Ok.. There is a difference between and email and a trade proposal.. Trade proposals are made with emails sent from the site which include actual offers. The owner contacted me originally with an email, not a trade proposal, just asking me if I would trade player x for y.. I replied with an email, not a trade proposal, that we can work something out. No trade proposals have been offered yet. His email to me was for information about a possible trade and I guess to see if our values on the two players were close.

The owner first contacted me about this with an email question asking if you would trade this for that, It was not a trade proposal.

I then sent him an official trade proposal from the site. This was the first offer. I sent the first trade proposal to him from the site. His email to me was not an offer nor did he ever send or counter with a trade porposal or offer. I made every trade proposal, all were denied, never countered and never explained if we were close or not.

It is an IDP league with defensive players that score a lot of points. 14 out of the top 30 point scorers last year were defensive players, they do have a lot of value in this league.. Makes trading a lot mroe fun when all players have value.

My player in the trade is a full time defensive starter at a position that wieghted for players to score a lot of points. The player on his roster I was trading for is a RB who is third on the depth chart. I liked my starter more than a rb burried on the depth chart, but its an RB and he has some upside, so in my first trade proposal to him I asked for the minor pick upgrade. The owner recieved the proposal and denied it, never countered. I sent another trade proposal with pick upgrades in the fourth roundshortly after. This proposal was denied and not coutnered as well. No explanation given. I now send him a trade proposal with the player for player trade offered that he sent to me in an non trade offer email questioning me if I would trade this player for that only a few days ago, probably less than 36 hours.. IDK This trade proposal was denied and not countered as well.

Probably less than two days ago from when you ask about a possible trade interest and then when the exact offer is made in an official trade proposal.. It was denied.

Yeah players values change by the minute.. I get it.. but when you get an official trade proposal that is exactly like the players you asked in an email about 36 hours ago. at least give me an explanation or.. a reacharound.. crickey...

Hope this helps....

Yep, butt hurt.

 

[doowain]

Sour grapes?

This should be a learning lesson for you. Don't let something trivial like 5 spots in the 3rd round of a rookie draft keep a deal from getting done.

 

[whatadai]

Seriously - OP:

Can you answer the following question for us all (and me especially)

who were the players invovled and WHY did you feel making the "upgrade" from 3.10 to 3.05 was so important that you had to counter with it?

Did you have a specific player in mind that you thought would be there at 3.05 that wouldnt at 3.10?

I'm not trying to be a #####, but I dont see the logic whatsoever, in trying to squeeze that little juice from a rhino's horn.

Rizzler.. and anyone who must be fn bored out of their skull reading this...Ok.. There is a difference between and email and a trade proposal.. Trade proposals are made with emails sent from the site which include actual offers. The owner contacted me originally with an email, not a trade proposal, just asking me if I would trade player x for y.. I replied with an email, not a trade proposal, that we can work something out. No trade proposals have been offered yet. His email to me was for information about a possible trade and I guess to see if our values on the two players were close.

The owner first contacted me about this with an email question asking if you would trade this for that, It was not a trade proposal.

I then sent him an official trade proposal from the site. This was the first offer. I sent the first trade proposal to him from the site. His email to me was not an offer nor did he ever send or counter with a trade porposal or offer. I made every trade proposal, all were denied, never countered and never explained if we were close or not.

It is an IDP league with defensive players that score a lot of points. 14 out of the top 30 point scorers last year were defensive players, they do have a lot of value in this league.. Makes trading a lot mroe fun when all players have value.

My player in the trade is a full time defensive starter at a position that wieghted for players to score a lot of points. The player on his roster I was trading for is a RB who is third on the depth chart. I liked my starter more than a rb burried on the depth chart, but its an RB and he has some upside, so in my first trade proposal to him I asked for the minor pick upgrade. The owner recieved the proposal and denied it, never countered. I sent another trade proposal with pick upgrades in the fourth roundshortly after. This proposal was denied and not coutnered as well. No explanation given. I now send him a trade proposal with the player for player trade offered that he sent to me in an non trade offer email questioning me if I would trade this player for that only a few days ago, probably less than 36 hours.. IDK This trade proposal was denied and not countered as well.

Probably less than two days ago from when you ask about a possible trade interest and then when the exact offer is made in an official trade proposal.. It was denied.

Yeah players values change by the minute.. I get it.. but when you get an official trade proposal that is exactly like the players you asked in an email about 36 hours ago. at least give me an explanation or.. a reacharound.. crickey...

Hope this helps....

Stop trying to justify your counter offer by saying his wasn't the initial offer, the popular vote here says it is and if you don't trust us why even ask? Sucks the way it happened, but it's fake football, everyone else moves on. You need to move on too.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

 

[whatadai]

And seriously, why are you so against telling us who the players were? Trying to justify it by saying the player you were getting is a 3rd stringer with "upside" makes it sound worse than naming them outright. It just sounds like you're only giving select information to sway our judgement.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Count me amongst those who think there isn't anything wrong, ethically or otherwise, with what went on.The other owner didn't necessarily take things to the hard offer stage, he as likely could have been feeling you out on possibilities at the same time he's feeling out others about the same player/position. It would be nice if he was more clear, but that doesn't excuse jumping to conclusions he's ready to make a trade and getting upset when he doesn't.When I'm looking to move a player or fill a hole I'll often contact multiple owners who seem like potential trade partners. Mentioning a few players or possible swaps I may see as being potential deals does not equate to committing myself to making those trades. I do try to set the expectation I'm talking to other owners about similar deals to avoid someone getting unnecessarily upset, but someone isn't unethical if they aren't that careful in their wording.I've felt for a long time that negotiations should be done via email/phone/person and a website should only be used to consummate a trade that both parties have then given firm (but still non-binding) agreement on. About the only time I'll send offers on the site where we don't have an agreement in place is a rare owner who I've found balks at agreeing to most any trade in discussions, but who if you leave him an offer on the site for a few days he may finally get comfortable with it and accept.

I was going to type up a reply to the OP but it would sound like I was just plagiarizing this post.So I'll just give Mr. Russell a and say "ditto"

 

[N Zone]

I don't like the owner that does the feeling out trade negotiation stuff. Waste of time.

 

[DoubleG]

I prefer to talk in person. You'd be surprised how many more deals you can make in person. Or at least on the phone having a conversation.

While an email may start the process, nothing closes the deal like a phone call. You can work out things so much easier/quicker over the phone plus, it's much easier to read what hesitation is about on the phone. For example, you're offering players A+B and a 2nd rounder for player C and a 3rd rounder - the other guy balks. If you're doing this over email, it might take several exchanges (which the "I don't like to mess around back and forth" types hate) for you to realize that the reason he's hesitant is NOT because of hsi player or draft pick that he's giving up - not even Player A or the draft pick your sending, but he doesn't like Player B. Or, he might not even care about the draft pick - and here you keep switching the draft picks to fit what you think is his hold up. On the phone, that takes two seconds - he says "I don't really like Player B" or "the draft picks are no big deal..." - and you move on to get the deal done.I would say at least 75% of the deals that have actually gotten done by me have, at some point, talking either in person or over the phone to close the deal.

 

[comfortably numb]

I prefer to talk in person. You'd be surprised how many more deals you can make in person. Or at least on the phone having a conversation.

While an email may start the process, nothing closes the deal like a phone call. You can work out things so much easier/quicker over the phone plus, it's much easier to read what hesitation is about on the phone. For example, you're offering players A+B and a 2nd rounder for player C and a 3rd rounder - the other guy balks. If you're doing this over email, it might take several exchanges (which the "I don't like to mess around back and forth" types hate) for you to realize that the reason he's hesitant is NOT because of hsi player or draft pick that he's giving up - not even Player A or the draft pick your sending, but he doesn't like Player B. Or, he might not even care about the draft pick - and here you keep switching the draft picks to fit what you think is his hold up. On the phone, that takes two seconds - he says "I don't really like Player B" or "the draft picks are no big deal..." - and you move on to get the deal done.I would say at least 75% of the deals that have actually gotten done by me have, at some point, talking either in person or over the phone to close the deal.

Any of you FF freaks call me on my phone and I driving to your house and kicking you in the kidney.

 

[rizzler]

I prefer to talk in person. You'd be surprised how many more deals you can make in person. Or at least on the phone having a conversation.

While an email may start the process, nothing closes the deal like a phone call. You can work out things so much easier/quicker over the phone plus, it's much easier to read what hesitation is about on the phone. For example, you're offering players A+B and a 2nd rounder for player C and a 3rd rounder - the other guy balks. If you're doing this over email, it might take several exchanges (which the "I don't like to mess around back and forth" types hate) for you to realize that the reason he's hesitant is NOT because of hsi player or draft pick that he's giving up - not even Player A or the draft pick your sending, but he doesn't like Player B. Or, he might not even care about the draft pick - and here you keep switching the draft picks to fit what you think is his hold up. On the phone, that takes two seconds - he says "I don't really like Player B" or "the draft picks are no big deal..." - and you move on to get the deal done.I would say at least 75% of the deals that have actually gotten done by me have, at some point, talking either in person or over the phone to close the deal.

Any of you FF freaks call me on my phone and I driving to your house and kicking you in the kidney.

skype only?

 

[Lash]

probably just move on, but if he is a multiple offender ... next time he does it just fwd message to commish with your "Yes I would, i'll turn it in to commish" reply in the fwd

then watch him backpedal away or swallow his pride and take it

either way i bet he won't try the pricing with you anymore