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ESPN Article on Brady & Kraft Sabotaging the Future for Brady's Ego (1 Viewer)

Dr. Octopus said:
irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.
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How are those Ryan Trophies (AFC Championship Loss Trophies) working our for you? To you polish them with pride?  :D

I post opinions, I don't just troll people. He was just a bitter fan coming on to goat with no take. 

 
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rockaction said:
Not really. I've got the Pats winning the SB this year and likely next. But we can revisit in five years or so, and this will have been bad for the Pats dynasty.  
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If NE wins 3 years in a row and Brady ends up with 7 rings, how on earth could people say they kept the wrong guy?

 
menobrown said:
Ever since the trade went down, before Jimmy ever suited up in a game for SF, he's been railing non-stop that this trade just did not make any sense and he could not understand it. He spoke often of the succession plan referenced in the article, that he knew that was a big priority of BB's and he could not understand why he did this trade because Jimmy as the succession plan was always something BB wanted in place.
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What's not to understand?  It's really quit simple actually.  The succession plan was no longer possible because they couldn't keep both QBs after this year so they had to chose one of them.  I suppose an argument could be made to keep Jimmy over Brady, but even then it's simple enough to understand.  People may disagree with them keeping Brady of Jimmy (I'm not one of them) but it's all pretty straight forward.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
So now Pat fans are going to start claiming Jimmy G isn't the real deal after spending last offseason screaming how he was worth one of Cleveland's first rounders? Pat fans are so hysterical.
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I guess I don't spend enough time in the Shark Pool (thankfully).  

I thought that was more people people thinking that it was worth a 1st for a guy that has at least flashed some goodness in the NFL and is in a good system vs. spending a 1st on a donk that hasn't started in the NFL and less Pats fans thinking he was the GOAT.   If I were Cleveland I would probably be wishing we had done that right about now too.  

 
Anarchy99 said:
Some of the other comparisons I have seen aren't apples to oranges. 

"Well, the Niners traded Montana and went with Young." Sure, after Joe Cool missed a season and backed up Young for a season (when Young was the MVP).

"But the Packers went with Rodgers instead of Favre." Right after Favre had announced his retirement. Favre later changed his mind and GB basically said they had already moved on to Rodgers.

"The Cowboys picked Prescott over Romo." Dallas would have had a huge cap hit in keeping Romo, and he had basically missed almost two full seasons in a row and still had back issues.

None of these guys were anywhere near as productive as Brady has been this year or last year. Sure, at some point the wheels may fall off, but the fact remains they couldn't keep two QB's at full top tier starting salaries.
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While I don't think it's quite the same situation Favre did go on to have a MVP caliber seasons 2 years later with the Vikings.  I think the Favre/Rodgers situation is a close to this situation since Favre's last game in GB was the NFC championship game.  Certainly not an easy decision for the Packers front office.  Though I don't the JG is the next Rodgers either so still the Pats front office did have a tougher call to make.

 
KarmaPolice said:
I guess I don't spend enough time in the Shark Pool (thankfully).  

I thought that was more people people thinking that it was worth a 1st for a guy that has at least flashed some goodness in the NFL and is in a good system vs. spending a 1st on a donk that hasn't started in the NFL and less Pats fans thinking he was the GOAT.   If I were Cleveland I would probably be wishing we had done that right about now too.  
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You should spend more time in the SP, actually KP. There's a lot of good stuff here, IMO. Some serious stuff, some fluff, some rough, but all worth it, overall.  

 
Steeler said:
What's not to understand?  It's really quit simple actually.  The succession plan was no longer possible because they couldn't keep both QBs after this year so they had to chose one of them.  I suppose an argument could be made to keep Jimmy over Brady, but even then it's simple enough to understand.  People may disagree with them keeping Brady of Jimmy (I'm not one of them) but it's all pretty straight forward.
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Sorry, I"m not aware of the NFL rule which required the Pats to part ways with Brady or Jimmy G after this season.  So sorry have not seen that rule or the one that said Bill had to choose Brady when the season was over.

 
hoffman0001 said:
And here is the crux of it. 
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Yep. But I'm having fun in this thread. Have fun with me having fun gloat over getting only a 2nd for Jimmy G and Dorsett for Brissett.  

eta* It doesn't color my analysis that I think they got nothing for these guys. That's actually a serious point, and while people can keep drilling the franchise/cap hit home, you've got to find a way to do that. You might have to ask Brady to take another pay cut.    

 
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hoffman0001 said:
How are those Ryan Trophies (AFC Championship Loss Trophies) working our for you? To you polish them with pride?  :D

I post opinions, I don't just troll people. He was just a bitter fan coming on to goat with no take. 
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I've put my pants on each morning and lived my life.

 
menobrown said:
Sorry, I"m not aware of the NFL rule which required the Pats to part ways with Brady or Jimmy G after this season.  So sorry have not seen that rule or the one that said Bill had to choose Brady when the season was over.
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Seriously?  You are arguing the semantics of me using the word "couldn't"?  They decided not to keep both QBs at the salary both QBs would command at the end of the year - still very straight forward to understand which was my point.

 
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menobrown said:
Sorry, I"m not aware of the NFL rule which required the Pats to part ways with Brady or Jimmy G after this season.  So sorry have not seen that rule or the one that said Bill had to choose Brady when the season was over.
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:lol: come on, no one said that.  

Like anarchy said, no sane team would eat 30% of their cap on the QB position.  In that sense they "had" to do something with one of them. 

 
Steeler said:
Seriously?  Your arguing the semantics of me using the word "couldn't"?  They decided not to keep both QBs at the salary both QBs would command at the end of the year - still very straight forward to understand which was my point.
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Couldn't is a pretty easy word to understand.

Let me help you. NE could keep both if the wanted.

Think a little. If they never felt they could not keep both, or have the option to decide which one they wanted to keep, why deal Jimmy G for a second when they could have got more?

It's pretty rational thinking, if you tried.

 
Anarchy99 said:
If NE wins 3 years in a row and Brady ends up with 7 rings, how on earth could people say they kept the wrong guy?
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I don't really know. I think Jimmy G could have won next year, so maybe you can say Brady wins this year, you part ways, and Jimmy G goes on to win a bunch more with the best organization in football.  

Who knows?  

I'd still be worried about KC. Too bad they don't have Berry to cover Gronk.  

 
menobrown said:
Sorry, I"m not aware of the NFL rule which required the Pats to part ways with Brady or Jimmy G after this season.  So sorry have not seen that rule or the one that said Bill had to choose Brady when the season was over.
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To start repeating things, the only way NE could keep both guys was to franchise JG. As constituted, they would have to dole out $47 million to TB and JG next year. So based on what was posted earlier, the plan would have been to go to BRADY to take a pay cut (5 time SB winner, 4 time SB MVP, likely 3 time MVP, 7 or 8 SB appearances by then)?

So BRADY should be the one playing on the cheap and taking a massive pay cut, while Jimmy G got paid twice as much as Brady NOT TO PLAY next season? Really? This was the solution? Why on earth would Brady entertain that?

 
menobrown said:
Couldn't is a pretty easy word to understand.

Let me help you. NE could keep both if the wanted.

Think a little. If they never felt they could not keep both, or have the option to decide which one they wanted to keep, why deal Jimmy G for a second when they could have got more?

It's pretty rational thinking, if you tried.
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This is why i typically don't comment much in threads like this... I replaced the word couldn't since you are so hung up on it and said they decided not to keep both QBs.

 
rockaction said:
I don't really know. I think Jimmy G could have won next year, so maybe you can say Brady wins this year, you part ways, and Jimmy G goes on to win a bunch more with the best organization in football.  

Who knows?  

I'd still be worried about KC. Too bad they don't have Berry to cover Gronk.  
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Not 100% NE even plays KC (but that seems the most likely opponent).

 
hoffman0001 said:
And here is the crux of it. Poor Jets fan...the only thing worse as maybe being a Browns fan....
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Here's a clue: People that live in and around NYC have a lot going for them and don't base their self worth or their happiness solely on how their football team does. Only small pathetic trolls do that.

So when do you break out your next alias, @Brewtown, @CheeseCurds, @Mavis after this one gets banned?

 
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Anarchy99 said:
To start repeating things, the only way NE could keep both guys was to franchise JG. As constituted, they would have to dole out $47 million to TB and JG next year. So based on what was posted earlier, the plan would have been to go to BRADY to take a pay cut (5 time SB winner, 4 time SB MVP, likely 3 time MVP, 7 or 8 SB appearances by then)?

So BRADY should be the one playing on the cheap and taking a massive pay cut, while Jimmy G got paid twice as much as Brady NOT TO PLAY next season? Really? This was the solution? Why on earth would Brady entertain that?
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I'll just say this one last time so also don't have to keep repeating things.

If they never wanted to pay Jimmy G or give themselves the option of choosing why would they not take the better offer during the offseason.

Lastly why assume Brady had a choice.

That article stated they made Jimmy G and offer. I believe the article.

But what does Mike Lombardi now?

 
JuniorNB said:
You call Brady into the office and explain the situation. Simply tell him that we plan on using you as the starter as long as you want to be (or are no longer capable), but we've hit a salary cap problem. Can you work with us?

Pretty simple. Brady isn't stupid. He understands that New England has to think about 2 years from now, 5 years from now, 8 years from now. And he also practiced with Garappallo every day, so he knows how good he is. At that point, they will find out if Brady cares about the franchise or not. He's a filthy rich man with a wife who's even richer. The ball would be in his court then. And the Pats wouldn't look like bad guys if Brady decided he wanted out.
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Brady, in that situation, would have to play for free to make it work. The Pats have tough decisions coming on Lewis and Butler, among others. If you tie up two QBs at starter level money, you loose a bunch of other pieces in the process. You simply can't pay franchise QB money to a backup under any circumstances.

Again, the bigger picture here is that Jimmy G held all of the cards. Teams might have been willing to cough up better picks than a high 2nd rounder if they had any assurance that Garoppolo would sign a long term deal there -- Don Yee would have NEVER said to a team like say, the Browns, "sure, we'll re-sign in Cleveland". That would be agent malpractice.  There were very few teams that they would consider long-term, which limited his trade value.

 
Steeler said:
This is why i typically don't comment much in threads like this... I replaced the word couldn't since you are so hung up on it and said they decided not to keep both QBs.
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Huh.....I don't know how to tell you this but I'm not the one caught up on that word here.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Here's a clues people that live in and around NYC have a lot going for them and don't base their self worth or their happiness on how their football does. Only small pathetic trolls do that. When do you break out your next alias, @Brewtown, @CheeseCurds, @Mavis after this one gets banned?
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None of those are me. What would I be banned for exactly? Speaking the truth? 

YOU ARE the one who held up 2 AFC championships LOSSSES as a badge of honor about how great you team was. I measure success the same way the NFL does...it's spelled L-O-M-B-A-R-D-I. 2nd pace is simply the first loser...any NFL player will tell you the same. 

 
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menobrown said:
Couldn't is a pretty easy word to understand.

Let me help you. NE could keep both if the wanted.

Think a little. If they never felt they could not keep both, or have the option to decide which one they wanted to keep, why deal Jimmy G for a second when they could have got more?

It's pretty rational thinking, if you tried.
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Again, where is the "could have gotten more" coming from? There have been multiple reports the Pats were never offered a first round pick. There best offer has been said to be a 2nd round pick and a late round pick. At the trading deadline, there was no reason to believe teams would have offered more. The only reason people are now suggesting the Pats should have gotten more for him is how JG has performed AFTER he was traded. Sure, now that he played well in SF for a month, teams would be more like to give up the 40th pick in the draft. But they wouldn't have given a mountain of draft picks and draft capital when JG hadn't played in over a year.

 
rockaction said:
I don't really know. I think Jimmy G could have won next year, so maybe you can say Brady wins this year, you part ways, and Jimmy G goes on to win a bunch more with the best organization in football.  

Who knows?  

I'd still be worried about KC. Too bad they don't have Berry to cover Gronk.  
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KC and Jax could both be tough this playoff for sure.   It's key to get Hogan and Rex back and have a full arsenal.  

 
Workhorse said:
Brady, in that situation, would have to play for free to make it work. The Pats have tough decisions coming on Lewis and Butler, among others. If you tie up two QBs at starter level money, you loose a bunch of other pieces in the process. You simply can't pay franchise QB money to a backup under any circumstances.

Again, the bigger picture here is that Jimmy G held all of the cards. Teams might have been willing to cough up better picks than a high 2nd rounder if they had any assurance that Garoppolo would sign a long term deal there -- Don Yee would have NEVER said to a team like say, the Browns, "sure, we'll re-sign in Cleveland". That would be agent malpractice.  There were very few teams that they would consider long-term, which limited his trade value.
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That's not true. The Pats also would have had to make a few sacrifices in return for the luxury of having a chance to keep their dynasty going for me than another year or two. Cut salary in some other spots.  

 
Anarchy99 said:
Again, where is the "could have gotten more" coming from? There have been multiple reports the Pats were never offered a first round pick. There best offer has been said to be a 2nd round pick and a late round pick. At the trading deadline, there was no reason to believe teams would have offered more. The only reason people are now suggesting the Pats should have gotten more for him is how JG has performed AFTER he was traded. Sure, now that he played well in SF for a month, teams would be more like to give up the 40th pick in the draft. But they wouldn't have given a mountain of draft picks and draft capital when JG hadn't played in over a year.
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I won't go down that rabbit hole but I trust the sources  who reported they could have got a first plus, not like GM's confirm this things so you got to believe what you choose. I did not need to see this to believe it but when McCarron fetches you a 2 and 3  it's really not hard to believe but you maybe you don't buy that either.

But let's be real clear on something. A lot of people were stunned they only got a second BEFORE he ever suited up for San Fran.

 
KarmaPolice said:
KC and Jax could both be tough this playoff for sure.   It's key to get Hogan and Rex back and have a full arsenal.  
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The good news for NE is they can only play JAX or PIT, they can't face both. By all accounts, all the banged up NE players are expected back for the playoffs. Whether that means they will be 100% or 75% is another matter entirely.

IMO, NE should be decent favorites again whomever they face given that they are playing at home with TB and BB. But it would not shock me at all if they didn't win. They have had better teams than this one, but overall I think the other teams in the AFC are also weaker than in other years. I still see NE scoring in the high 20's (or more) and the defense capable enough to limit teams to the high teens or low 20's. That should be good enough to get to the SB again.

 
menobrown said:
I'll just say this one last time so also don't have to keep repeating things.

If they never wanted to pay Jimmy G or give themselves the option of choosing why would they not take the better offer during the offseason.

Lastly why assume Brady had a choice.

That article stated they made Jimmy G and offer. I believe the article.

But what does Mike Lombardi now?
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If Brady was playing well and Jimmy G played no more games during the season, why would they get better offers if the knowledge on him would be exactly the same as it was at the trade deadline?  Add to that the upcoming draft seems to be a little more top heavy with QB prospects.  

 
hoffman0001 said:
None of those are me. What would I be banned for exactly? Speaking the truth? 

YOU ARE the one who held up 2 AFC championships LOSSSES as a badge of honor about how great you team was. I measure success the same way the NFL does...it's spelled L-O-M-B-A-R-D-I. 2nd pace is simply the first loser...any NFL player will tell you the same. 
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I've seen your work in the Browns thread and now this thread.  Just about every one of your posts is a condescending, personal attack towards someone.  It is kind of surprising that you haven't received a timeout yet.  

 
menobrown said:
I won't go down that rabbit hole but I trust the sources  who reported they could have got a first plus, not like GM's confirm this things so you got to believe what you choose. I did not need to see this to believe it but when McCarron fetches you a 2 and 3  it's really not hard to believe but you maybe you don't buy that either.

But let's be real clear on something. A lot of people were stunned they only got a second BEFORE he ever suited up for San Fran.
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The whole JG fervor started when Adam Schefter was asked on live radio what he thought the Patriots could get for Jimmy G. He speculated that they should at least ask for a 1st and a 4th based on what MIN gave up for Sam Bradford. Somehow that got reported as the Pats were actually asking for that at a minimum. Then Mary Cabot in Cleveland said the Browns would offer more than that. That's when people went nuts about what the Patriots would actually get for Jimmy G., but that was all fueled and misreported by the media (shocking, I know). Maybe the Pats could have gotten more more Jimmy, but from whom and when who knows. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
If Brady was playing well and Jimmy G played no more games during the season, why would they get better offers if the knowledge on him would be exactly the same as it was at the trade deadline?  Add to that the upcoming draft seems to be a little more top heavy with QB prospects.  
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I'm saying they had better options to trade Jimmy G during the 2017 off-season. One of big reasons people said they would not was what if Brady went down? In the end they deal their second and third string QBs' in-season and I contend took less for Jimmy G then what they could have got for him in the 2017 off-season. Which again to me adds a ton of credence to the article because the timing and compensation of the trade both seem off.  It's apparent some people here don't believe the reports of what NE could have got for him this past off-season, on that to each your own.

Also, if you believe the article, and this part I've heard from solid sources, they did not shop him so much as offered him to 49'ers.

 
Anarchy99 said:
The good news for NE is they can only play JAX or PIT, they can't face both. By all accounts, all the banged up NE players are expected back for the playoffs. Whether that means they will be 100% or 75% is another matter entirely.

IMO, NE should be decent favorites again whomever they face given that they are playing at home with TB and BB. But it would not shock me at all if they didn't win. They have had better teams than this one, but overall I think the other teams in the AFC are also weaker than in other years. I still see NE scoring in the high 20's (or more) and the defense capable enough to limit teams to the high teens or low 20's. That should be good enough to get to the SB again.
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Good point.  Jax D scares me but then you step back and think "it's still Blake Bortles!"  Pitts O scares me, but NE seems to be in their head and they manage to blow games they should win somehow.  Should be a couple good games though, and I really hope Hogan and Rex are near full health then that opens everything up for the Pats.  

IF the Pats don't make it, for the sake of the NFL I actually hope it's the Jags or KC - it's gotta be tiring seeing the same 2 AFC teams there every year.  

 
fred_1_15301 said:
I've seen your work in the Browns thread and now this thread.  Just about every one of your posts is a condescending, personal attack towards someone.  It is kind of surprising that you haven't received a timeout yet.  
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So sorry the truth hurts SNOWFLAKE. Maybe we have sit around the fire and sing KUMBAYA...I can't help the fact that your not happy the I point out the FACTS around the fact that your team is a poorly run organization. I know....instead of the LOMBARDI trophy, maybe we can just given every team a participation trophy....or maybe just not keep score so everyone is a winner? 

 
hoffman0001 said:
So sorry the truth hurts SNOWFLAKE. Maybe we have sit around the fire and sing KUMBAYA...I can't help the fact that your not happy the I point out the FACTS around the fact that your team is a poorly run organization. I know....instead of the LOMBARDI trophy, maybe we can just given every team a participation trophy....or maybe just not keep score so everyone is a winner? 
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Wow    :lmao:  

 
hoffman0001 said:
So sorry the truth hurts SNOWFLAKE. Maybe we have sit around the fire and sing KUMBAYA...I can't help the fact that your not happy the I point out the FACTS around the fact that your team is a poorly run organization. I know....instead of the LOMBARDI trophy, maybe we can just given every team a participation trophy....or maybe just not keep score so everyone is a winner? 
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That surely doesn't prove him wrong. I give you about another hour or two as a member. Enjoy your stay.  

 
JuniorNB said:
That surely doesn't prove him wrong. I give you about another hour or two as a member. Enjoy your stay.  
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hmmmmm..so we get banned for speaking the truth? He is upset because I correctly stated: 

A. The browns are a poorly run organization (True)

B. They have only been in the playoffs one time this century (True)

C. They passed on Wentz and Watson (Both true)

I'm sorry the truth hurts feelings. Maybe we should bring this up to the NFL competition committee. They can address this and make sure everyone feels SPECIAL. 

 
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Anarchy99 said:
The whole JG fervor started when Adam Schefter was asked on live radio what he thought the Patriots could get for Jimmy G. He speculated that they should at least ask for a 1st and a 4th based on what MIN gave up for Sam Bradford. Somehow that got reported as the Pats were actually asking for that at a minimum. Then Mary Cabot in Cleveland said the Browns would offer more than that. That's when people went nuts about what the Patriots would actually get for Jimmy G., but that was all fueled and misreported by the media (shocking, I know). Maybe the Pats could have gotten more more Jimmy, but from whom and when who knows. 
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Pats fans were nuts.....there were those of us who didn't see JG as a "multiple one"/high one/1 + high mid round guy.......

 
rockaction said:
Dr. Octopus knows who I am, Snicks. Please. This hoffman/weird hostile alias guy can't even spell. I've got that going for me, at least. 

Bal San -- how'd you catch the ban, anyway? I'm not being hostile, just curious.  
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I posted a link the day of the Mayweather fight that said the fight was called off because Pac-man broke his hand. However, when you clicked on the link it was a picture of a naked, obese black guy with a giant schlong.

 
hoffman0001 said:
Like I said your time will come to be competitive again. Once BB and Brady ride off into the sunset. I figure you can maybe catch their LOMBARDI count by the end of this century....maybe. 
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I wouldn't bet on that as long as Woody owns the Jets. Ooof.  

 
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