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ESPN Article on Brady & Kraft Sabotaging the Future for Brady's Ego (1 Viewer)

hoffman0001 said:
I will. Can't wait till the NFL stops that painful practice of keeping score, giving trophies, and keeping win-loss records. In fact it would be better if we just shut down the NFL so no one ever felt sad....
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Didn't you just suggest on the last page that people should band-wagon onto good team when they're team isn't winning? Your next screen-name should be "Mr. Irony."

 
Anarchy99 said:
Let's see how Brady does when he isn't banged up and with his weapons back. Way too soon, IMO, to conclude he has dropped off. He does this every December.
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you may be right.  i am a big TB supporter.  GOAT, no doubt.  but he looks in decline to me.  i would have let him walk.  nobody is bigger than the team.  not the right business decision IMO.

if i am right, and Bill walks, we will truly see what Brady has left next year under a new system.  if that goes poorly, i don't think you can credibly argue it tarnishes his legacy, but the chattering classes will no doubt start attributing his success to Bill.  unfairly in my view, but that is what will happen.

if Brady wanted to play until he was 45 he should have accepted going to a new team.  but the dude is a warrior and won the war.  the question is: will the spoils of that war be worth it in the end?  time will tell.

 
zoonation said:
No.  they could have traded Brady or let him walk, which was the prudent business move.   Brady will win (and deserves) MVP, but he is clearly in decline.  He ain't playing at a high level until 45, and Bill knows it.   The Pats always make the prudent business play.  Instead, in very un-Patriot like fashion, they sold out their future to reward the past.  I will be shocked if Bill is there next year.  He lost the war.  
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??

Brady's 2016 and 2017 seasons represent his best two year stretch since 2010-2011. Not sure how you can make the case that Brady is "clearly in decline". 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Didn't you just suggest on the last page that people should band-wagon onto good team when they're team isn't winning? Your next screen-name should be "Mr. Irony."
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No, what i said was when people COMPLAIN about how bad their team is, at some point they can simply choose not to support it. If I go have a burger, and it's a bad burger, and everyone tells the owner "make a better burger man", but they keep going back and eating the burger, why would the owner change anything? That is my point. As some point, a bad organization is just bad and you need to go where they serve a GOOD BURGER. You don't just keep eating the bad product just because your "loyal". 

 
Workhorse said:
??

Brady's 2016 and 2017 seasons represent his best two year stretch since 2010-2011. Not sure how you can make the case that Brady is "clearly in decline". 
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just going by what i've watched the last couple of months.  his QBR is right there with Tyrod Taylor's.  he is missing easy throws.  he is scared to take a hit.  not saying he won't go on a run here in the playoffs, but he has not looked good lately.

 
hoffman0001 said:
No, what i said was when people COMPLAIN about how bad their team is, at some point they can simply choose not to support it. If I go have a burger, and it's a bad burger, and everyone tells the owner "make a better burger man", but they keep going back and eating the burger, why would the owner change anything? That is my point. As some point, a bad organization is just bad and you need to go where they serve a GOOD BURGER. You don't just keep eating the bad product just because your "loyal". 
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I found something else you are bad at: analogies.

 
zoonation said:
just going by what i've watched the last couple of months.  his QBR is right there with Tyrod Taylor's.  he is missing easy throws.  he is scared to take a hit.  not saying he won't go on a run here in the playoffs, but he has not looked good lately.
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That says far more about QBR as a stat than about Tom Brady as a quarterback. 

 
zoonation said:
you may be right.  i am a big TB supporter.  GOAT, no doubt.  but he looks in decline to me.  i would have let him walk.  nobody is bigger than the team.  not the right business decision IMO.

if i am right, and Bill walks, we will truly see what Brady has left next year under a new system.  if that goes poorly, i don't think you can credibly argue it tarnishes his legacy, but the chattering classes will no doubt start attributing his success to Bill.  unfairly in my view, but that is what will happen.

if Brady wanted to play until he was 45 he should have accepted going to a new team.  but the dude is a warrior and won the war.  the question is: will the spoils of that war be worth it in the end?  time will tell.
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Where is the walk part for Brady? He is signed for two more years. Again . . . the SB champs are supposed to cut or trade MVP that positioned the team for another SB run and ranked #1 in all analytical metrics? And they were supposed to bench Brady in favor of an unproven JG? All this is bubbling over because of how the Niners ended the season. 

As an aside, Shefter was interviewed this morning, and even he doesn't see any evidence that BB will be gone and he expects BB will be back next year. IMO, the ESPN reporter connected dots and speculated BB won't be back all on his own without hard evidence. It's basically a click bait article.

 
JuniorNB said:
My point is, I'd rather lost Brady and his one or two more years than Garappalo and his 10-12.  The man has probably made 200 million dollars. His wife has even more money.  Asking him to play for 'only' 15 million is not exactly a slap in the face at the age of 41 next year.  If he bulked at the idea, then he asks to be traded or retires and he makes the decision for you. And he looks like the selfish one and the franchise comes out smelling like a rose.  Jimmy G looks as good as Brady right now. And they could have had him till 2030.  
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I guess this is where we disagree.  This isn't Joe Blow who sucked it up - we are talking the reigning SB champ who just took your team to a 13 win season and the #1 seed.  I don't care how much he has made in his career (and to be honest, he probably should have made more, but he made decisions to get other pieces to win those SBs) I absolutely think it's a slap in the face to ask him to know play for as much as Browns Qb so you can pay his backup more than him to take over in 2-3 years.  

I am not saying Kraft had an easy decision, but I just don't see your scenario being a very realistic one considering what Brady has done for the team, how he is still performing, and how many more years he claims he can play at a good level.  

 
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hoffman0001 said:
Have you ever posted anything positive? Your picture fits you perfectly. I'm done with you....enjoy your next 5-11 Jets season....yay...go J-E-T-S!
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Yes. I contribute way more in topics than your trolling. I'm sure you can search my history if you like. You came into this thread attacking my boy rock, and I like putting dumb bullies in their place.   

 
KarmaPolice said:
I guess this is where we disagree.  This isn't Joe Blow who sucked it up - we are talking the reigning SB champ who just took your team to a 13 win season and the #1 seed.  I don't care how much he has made in his career (and to be honest, he probably should have made more, but he made decisions to get other pieces to win those SBs) I absolutely think it's a slap in the face to ask him to know play for as much as Browns Qb so you can pay his backup more than him to take over in 2-3 years.  

I am not saying Kraft had an easy decision, but I just don't see your scenario being a very realistic one considering what Brady has done for the team, how he is still performing, and how many more years he claims he can play at a good level.  
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My point is, New England was in a tough spot. As everyone has said, they couldn't possibly pay both guys market value. But the bottom line is, they were most-likely going to lose one or the other.  My suggestion would have allowed the players to both sacrifice for the long-term good of the team.  You're probably right. Brady most-likely wouldn't have agreed to play for 15 million. But you put the impedes on him to ask for a trade. It would have been a PR nightmare if it looked like the team made the decision.  I don't think there's a single Patriots fan that doesn't think Garappalo was the best choice for the overall good of the team. Nothing I've seen on the field suggests they would have missed a beat with him at the helm. And he'll still be playing when Brady is close to 60. 

 
JuniorNB said:
That's not what I said. You sit Brady down and explain the situation. Maybe he plays for 15 million.  Maybe Jimmy G agrees to take a little less than market value to be ensured the starting position and big bucks in a year or two?  I think they got rid of the wrong guy if they couldn't get them both to work together. 
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Brady has a contract. This year it's 14 million cap hit or 28 million dead cap, next year it's 22 million cap hit or 14 million dead cap, the year after that it's 22 million cap hit or 7 million dead cap.

Jimmy G wanted starter money next year, why should he wait? The NFL is a business The starting point is 5 years, 135 million with 92 million guaranteed.

 
JuniorNB said:
My point is, New England was in a tough spot. As everyone has said, they couldn't possibly pay both guys market value. But the bottom line is, they were most-likely going to lose one or the other.  My suggestion would have allowed the players to both sacrifice for the long-term good of the team.  You're probably right. Brady most-likely wouldn't have agreed to play for 15 million. But you put the impedes on him to ask for a trade. It would have been a PR nightmare if it looked like the team made the decision.  I don't think there's a single Patriots fan that doesn't think Garappalo was the best choice for the overall good of the team. Nothing I've seen on the field suggests they would have missed a beat with him at the helm. And he'll still be playing when Brady is close to 60. 
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Fair enough, and maybe it does stroke Brady's  ego, but I like that Kraft maybe did what he thought was the right thing, and not was was the exact best thing for the long term for the business of the team.  It makes me cringe a bit the way some backbone players are treated by franchises at the end of their careers, and whether or not you think he is the GOAT, it's hard to argue that Brady and his 5 SB rings haven't done more for that franchise than just about any other player has done for theirs.  I have 0 issues with them sticking with Brady for the next couple years even if it means passing on Jimmy (which is still know guarantee despite how good he has looked).  I think he has earned the right to have the ownership back him, and then some.  :shrug:   I love seeing the rare players begin and end their careers with one team.  

 
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KarmaPolice said:
Fair enough, and maybe it does stroke Brady's  ego, but I like that Kraft maybe did what he thought was the right thing, and not was was the exact best thing for the long term for the business of the team.  It makes me cringe a bit the way some backbone players are treated by franchises at the end of their careers, and whether or not you think he is the GOAT, it's hard to argue that Brady and his 5 SB rings haven't done more for that franchise than just about any other player has done for theirs.  I have 0 issues with them sticking with Brady for the next couple years even if it means passing on Jimmy (which is still know guarantee despite how good he has looked).  I think he has earned the right to have the ownership back him, and then some.  :shrug:   I love seeing the rare players begin and end their careers with one team.  
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The loyalty from the team is a breath of fresh air.  But at the same time, it goes against one of the main reasons New England has stayed so good for so long. They historically have no problems cutting or dealing a hometown favorite if Belichick thinks he's slipping or is about to slip soon. He has made quite a few moves that raised eyebrows and he almost always ends up looking like the smartest guy in the room. 

But I do agree that it would be a shame seeing Brady play one more year in a different uniform.

 
fred_1_15301 said:
You assumed I was a Browns fan so there's that    :shrug:  
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Let's see you were mad that I posted true comments on the Browns failures...seem logical that your mad because you can't accept the reality of your teams issues. It's far easier to shoot the messenger then say "yeah my team is pretty bad",. 

 
hoffman0001 said:
Let's see you were mad that I posted true comments on the Browns failures...seem logical that your mad because you can't accept the reality of your teams issues. It's far easier to shoot the messenger then say "yeah my team is pretty bad",. 
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You assumed that I was a Browns fan because I went into the thread and noted how condescending you were (a sentiment that many others in here have already corroborated).  The funny thing is I haven't even made a single post in that thread.  Why am I not surprised that you would make that ASSumption?     

 
hoffman0001 said:
Let's see you were mad that I posted true comments on the Browns failures...seem logical that your mad because you can't accept the reality of your teams issues. It's far easier to shoot the messenger then say "yeah my team is pretty bad",. 
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 Do you truly think that Browns’ fans don’t know their team is bad? They were 1-31 during the last two seasons. I doubt any of them needed your “facts”.

 
Since when did BB become so interested in the future? In his pressers it's we're on to the next opponent. Whenever, he's asked about something that may happen next year he says next year is next year. The team will be different. BB called Jimmy G a good QB and a great teammate. Brady has a contract that runs through 2019. BB will be 66 in April.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
 Do you truly think that Browns’ fans don’t know their team is bad? They were 1-31 during the last two seasons. I doubt any of them needed your “facts”.
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He knows that.  His "point" is that they shouldn't be fans of the team anymore.  Riveting stuff I tell you.

 
I  vaguely remember a time in my life when what team a person rooted for was a meaningful factor in winning debates.

Then I got to middle school and developed a more rational approach to life.

 
What amazes me is how people think that a player with only 8 games left under contract is worth more than a 2nd rd pick.

Had the trade happened before the season started, say last years draft, ... one could argue the value being a 1st or more.

People are reading way too far into this deal.

 
gunther said:
Since when did BB become so interested in the future? In his pressers it's we're on to the next opponent. Whenever, he's asked about something that may happen next year he says next year is next year. The team will be different. BB called Jimmy G a good QB and a great teammate. Brady has a contract that runs through 2019. BB will be 66 in April.
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Yeah, I never thought he was going to be around for too much longer.  Maybe him supposedly being pissed at the Jimmy trade suggests otherwise, I guess.  

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Yes. I contribute way more in topics than your trolling. I'm sure you can search my history if you like. You came into this thread attacking my boy rock, and I like putting dumb bullies in their place.   
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It's all cool. I'm so used to the FFA that hoffman001 doesn't bother me in the least. But thanks, Doc Oc. I wonder when the next music draft is...

or the next Jets win.  

 
Dr. Octopus said:
 Do you truly think that Browns’ fans don’t know their team is bad? They were 1-31 during the last two seasons. I doubt any of them needed your “facts”.
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Yes they do cause the keep posting "were are one QB/Coach away from being in the playoffs". They need someone to tell them the truth. 

 
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Bossman said:
What amazes me is how people think that a player with only 8 games left under contract is worth more than a 2nd rd pick.

Had the trade happened before the season started, say last years draft, ... one could argue the value being a 1st or more.

People are reading way too far into this deal.
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your point is Moot. They always have the franchise tag to you...maybe you heard of a guy named Kirk Cousins?

 
fred_1_15301 said:
He knows that.  His "point" is that they shouldn't be fans of the team anymore.  Riveting stuff I tell you.
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Yep....if you keep filling the pockets of owners who don't produce they will never improve their product. They just mail it in and collect the $$$. If suddenly they saw their Jersey sales tank, or an empty stadium then they would take notice. 

 
hoffman0001 said:
your point is Moot. They always have the franchise tag to you...maybe you heard of a guy named Kirk Cousins?
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Here's another example of why you're a troll. The guy you quoted was giving an opinion.; Not attacking anyone. Not being a tool.  You quote him and talk down to him in a condescending way. If you talked like this to people in real life, you'd need your jaw wired shut. 

Be honest with us, are you a kid? Or an adult with social issues? A few of us have tried to help you out, but you seem resistant to growing.

 
hoffman0001 said:
your point is Moot. They always have the franchise tag to you...maybe you heard of a guy named Kirk Cousins?
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Maybe, maybe not. They would need to have $25 million in cap space available to be able to franchise JG. In the Redskins case, they had one QB to worry about. NE would have two, as Brady is on the books for a $22 million cap hit. They might have had enough cap room come March when the new league season starts, but they need to re-sign or extend a lot of players this off season. Tying up $47 million for two guys would be an issue for any team.

And as mentioned multiple times, by that point it would have been 18 months since JG actually played. His stock certainly wasn't going up any by not playing.

 
JuniorNB said:
Here's another example of why you're a troll. The guy you quoted was giving an opinion.; Not attacking anyone. Not being a tool.  You quote him and talk down to him in a condescending way. If you talked like this to people in real life, you'd need your jaw wired shut. 

Be honest with us, are you a kid? Or an adult with social issues? A few of us have tried to help you out, but you seem resistant to growing.
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Ok, is this better?

"Hey man great post, but i hope you don't mind I have a different opinion, is that ok with you? You see there is this thing called the franchise tag, and if you don't mind me saying so your statement might be factually incorrect, i hope it does not hurt you that I say that. You see the team can hold his rights as long as they want, and his contract does not matter in this case. I hope it's ok that I mentioned something that might make you feel like your wrong. It's ok your a great guy and I really respect your opinion",.

Is that ok manners police?

 
Anarchy99 said:
Maybe, maybe not. They would need to have $25 million in cap space available to be able to franchise JG. In the Redskins case, they had one QB to worry about. NE would have two, as Brady is on the books for a $22 million cap hit. They might have had enough cap room come March when the new league season starts, but they need to re-sign or extend a lot of players this off season. Tying up $47 million for two guys would be an issue for any team.

And as mentioned multiple times, by that point it would have been 18 months since JG actually played. His stock certainly wasn't going up any by not playing.
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No I was saying SF had the franchise tag to use not NE. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
Yeah, I never thought he was going to be around for too much longer.  Maybe him supposedly being pissed at the Jimmy trade suggests otherwise, I guess.  
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One of the reasons he has given to keep coaching is to get his sons established in coaching. If the DC gets a head coaching job maybe he'll name his son DC.

I see BB coaching through 2019, 20 years at NE. 

 
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JuniorNB said:
By that logic, every football fan should have jumped on the New England bandwagon by now.   :lmao:
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It's not too late.  We don't just get Superbowl wins we get epic historic games that come down to the final drive. It gets cold at the January games but they've got Dunkin donuts and you can sneak a bottle of Kahlua or Irish whiskey in if you want.  Glad to see you're keeping an open mind. 

 
hoffman0001 said:
Ok, is this better?

"Hey man great post, but i hope you don't mind I have a different opinion, is that ok with you? You see there is this thing called the franchise tag, and if you don't mind me saying so your statement might be factually incorrect, i hope it does not hurt you that I say that. You see the team can hold his rights as long as they want, and his contract does not matter in this case. I hope it's ok that I mentioned something that might make you feel like your wrong. It's ok your a great guy and I really respect your opinion",.

Is that ok manners police?
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That might be a little too far in the other direction.  Try this.

"Not necessarily. They could always buy a year or two by franchising him like Skins did with Kirk Cousins"

See?  To the point. Not condescending or disrespectful.

Also, kudos for asking for guidance.  That's a big step.   :thumbup:

 
bostonfred said:
It's not too late.  We don't just get Superbowl wins we get epic historic games that come down to the final drive. It gets cold at the January games but they've got Dunkin donuts and you can sneak a bottle of Kahlua or Irish whiskey in if you want.  Glad to see you're keeping an open mind. 
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I probably should have done that ten years ago. Would have saved me a lot of misery as an Eagles fan.  But why would I jump on board now that they won't have a decent quarterback for the next decade?    :P

 
JuniorNB said:
That might be a little too far in the other direction.  Try this.

"Not necessarily. They could always buy a year or two by franchising him like Skins did with Kirk Cousins"

See?  To the point. Not condescending or disrespectful.

Also, kudos for asking for guidance.  That's a big step.   :thumbup:
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Thanks so much. What did I do in life without you...

 
JuniorNB said:
I probably should have done that ten years ago. Would have saved me a lot of misery as an Eagles fan.  But why would I jump on board now that they won't have a decent quarterback for the next decade?    :P
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So you have someone to cheer for during conference championship week

 
gunther said:
One of the reasons he has given to keep coaching is to get his sons established in coaching. If the DC gets a head coaching job maybe he'll name his son DC.

I see BB coaching through 2019, 20 years at NE. 
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I didn't even know his sons were in coaching.

 
bostonfred said:
It's not too late.  We don't just get Superbowl wins we get epic historic games that come down to the final drive. It gets cold at the January games but they've got Dunkin donuts and you can sneak a bottle of Kahlua or Irish whiskey in if you want.  Glad to see you're keeping an open mind. 
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There are PLENTY of teams that reward their fans and put a quality product on the field and compete most years. I never said your team has to be a winner every year, but some teams have not even been competive for decades at a time. Why give them loyalty if they can't get the job done?

The NFL is a perfect fair playing field. Owners have the same $ to spend, access to the same players, and the same coaches. Some organizations get the job done and some do not. That's the bottom line. 

 
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