ESPN Article on Brady & Kraft Sabotaging the Future for Brady's Ego (1 Viewer)

[Guest]

I didn't even know his sons were in coaching.

Interesting! 

Patrica has been DC for 6 seasons, he was LB coach 5 seasons, Safeties coach 1 season

Flores has been LB coach for 2 seasons, he was Safeties coach for 4 seasons

Belichick's son has been Safeties coach for 2 seasons 

All three have spent time as coaching assistant. Looks like if Patricia leaves Flores will become DC and Belichick's son LB coach.

 

[Anarchy99]

Interesting! 

Patrica has been DC for 6 seasons, he was LB coach 5 seasons, Safeties coach 1 season

Flores has been LB coach for 2 seasons, he was Safeties coach for 4 seasons

Belichick's son has been Safeties coach for 2 seasons 

All three have spent time as coaching assistant. Looks like if Patricia leaves Flores will become DC and Belichick's son LB coach.

I have seen reports that even Flores has been approached to interview with other teams. Not sure that they would mean for the DC position. BB might go back to not having one if that were the case.

 

[Anarchy99]

After getting caught up with more of the day's events and multiple Wickersham interviews, here's what I can thread together.

- He has multiple sources that confirmed that the atmosphere around the team this year has been strained and more stressful than in prior years.
- BB is upset and miffed he couldn't keep JG and had no other option but to trade him.
- The amount of influence Guerrero had on multiple players was getting out of control so he got booted.
- TB never asked for JG to be traded and Brady did not put his foot down insisting that JG needed to be gone.
- The new holistic, think positive thoughts Brady is now more sensitive to the gruff boot camp style of coaching that BB has utilized for years.
- No one that was interviewed mentioned anything about BB leaving.
- Wickersham stands by his reporting but has no idea what will happen moving forward and has no knowledge that BB is done or wants out of NE.
- Wickersham speculates that BB leaving is one of the possible outcomes that could happen as a fall out of this at some point in the future.

And as a sidebar, Adam Schefter still says none of his sources believes BB is going anywhere and they all believe he will be coaching in NE again next year.

People can conclude what they want from all of that. Fall of an empire, end of an era, click bait distraction, stirring of the pot fake news item, or a combination platter.

 

[NREC34]

As discussed in the many Jimmy G threads, what else were the Pats going to do? Brady won the SB last year and is going to be MVP this year. They realistically could not have afforded to pay both guys and would have had to franchise Garoppolo. No way were they shelling out $45 million on two players at the same spot. All they could do was trade JG.

Why couldn’t they cut or trade Brady?

He won’t play that much longer. 

 

[Anarchy99]

Why couldn’t they cut or trade Brady?

He won’t play that much longer. 

Would you cut the reigning SB MVP and likely the current regular season MVP (who could be on his way to the SB again)?

 

[TwinTurbo]

I read the article until this point and don't really feel like continuing  (with McDaniel's father and legendary high school coach in the stands  -  way too melodramatic for me):

"He was wide open," McDaniels said to Brady, referring to Cooks.  Brady kept walking, and glaring at McDaniels, so the coach repeated: "We had him open.  Brady snapped, pivoting to McDaniels and yelling at him, "I got it!" Everyone within earshot, including head coach Bill Belichick, turned to watch as Brady screamed. He removed his helmet, and as a Patriots staffer held him back -- and with McDaniels' father and legendary high school coach in Ohio, Thom, in the stands behind the bench -- capped off the exchange by yelling, "F--- you!"

OH NO - and F-Bomb on an NFL sideline with the guy's father in the stands  

All this drama is because BB and Kraft know the gravy train is over once Brady retires. Jimmy G isn't Brady either. The shark move would be for BB to leave the Pats once Brady retires and go to another team with a franchise QB. 

 

[NREC34]

Would you cut the reigning SB MVP and likely the current regular season MVP (who could be on his way to the SB again)?

Yeah. 

If they don’t get someone else as good as Garoppolo their future is screwed. 

Good qbs aren’t easy to come by. 

Green Bay had to do it with Favre. 

 

[JuniorNB]

Yeah. 

If they don’t get someone else as good as Garoppolo their future is screwed. 

Good qbs aren’t easy to come by. 

Green Bay had to do it with Favre. 

This would have been the smart move, but Brady held all the cards. And held the team over a barrel. In a year or two, Pats fans are going to realize it and they are not going to be very happy with how all this went down.

 

[Anarchy99]

Yeah. 

If they don’t get someone else as good as Garoppolo their future is screwed. 

Good qbs aren’t easy to come by. 

Green Bay had to do it with Favre. 

Go read all the other threads on Jimmy G from the past few years. Most felt he was a bust in waiting. Yet now he is a lock Hall of Famer. How quickly the narrative changes. No one knew much of anything when he was traded. Basically five quarters of play to go on. 

 

[Saboo]

I think there is probably a lot of truth in this article and someone (probably Bob Kraft) dropped the ball here. They should have gotten much more for Jimmy G if they were going to deal him + it should have been done in the off season when they could have gotten a significantly better package for him. Also, one would think that Kraft would have learned from his dealings with Bill Parcells not to get involved with football operations.

That said, this is not going to be the end of the Patriots. The three parties involved have already issued a joint statement that they are “united” and that this story is being completely blown out of proportion. Several local journalists feel that this is something the team will move on from.

At the end of the day the Patriots went 13-3, have home field and are the clear favorites in the AFC to get to the Super Bowl and the odds on favorite to win the SB for a 6th time...These are first world football problems

 

[Stealthycat]

motivation for Brady to win another ring

love it

 

[Guest]

After getting caught up with more of the day's events and multiple Wickersham interviews, here's what I can thread together.

- He has multiple sources that confirmed that the atmosphere around the team this year has been strained and more stressful than in prior years.
- BB is upset and miffed he couldn't keep JG and had no other option but to trade him.
- The amount of influence Guerrero had on multiple players was getting out of control so he got booted.
- TB never asked for JG to be traded and Brady did not put his foot down insisting that JG needed to be gone.
- The new holistic, think positive thoughts Brady is now more sensitive to the gruff boot camp style of coaching that BB has utilized for years.
- No one that was interviewed mentioned anything about BB leaving.
- Wickersham stands by his reporting but has no idea what will happen moving forward and has no knowledge that BB is done or wants out of NE.
- Wickersham speculates that BB leaving is one of the possible outcomes that could happen as a fall out of this at some point in the future.

And as a sidebar, Adam Schefter still says none of his sources believes BB is going anywhere and they all believe he will be coaching in NE again next year.

People can conclude what they want from all of that. Fall of an empire, end of an era, click bait distraction, stirring of the pot fake news item, or a combination platter.

It's one thing that BB wished things could have worked out and they could keep Jimmy G. It's another to write a hater click bait story.

NE signed Brady to a two year extension before the 2016 season. That's what tied their hands. If NE didn't do the extension, 2017 would have been Brady's final year. Lynch has said he asked BB if Brady was available after he was shutdown asking about Jimmy G.

Brady's cap numbers after extension 

2016    13.7 Million cap hit      40.8 Million dead cap

2017    14    Million cap hit      28 Million dead cap

2018     22   Million cap hit      14 Million dead cap 

2019     22   Million cap hit         7 Million dead cap

Guess the haters never heard BB tell reporters that one reason he's coaching is he'd like to see his sons established in coaching.

BB doesn't fall in love with players or worry about next year.

 

[Anarchy99]

Do some of you guys follow football? When was the last time a back up QB with five quarters of game experience was traded for a first round pick? After a month starting for SF, it appears JG may have been worth a high pick but that doesn’t mean anyone would be willing to part with one. 

As far as Brady goes, between last year and this year, NE has gone 27-4 (.871). He had the higher player efficiency rating in history last year, ranked #1 by a decent margin this year will likely win MVP this year, and has the team primed for another SB run. Talk about a drop off in performance. 

So the Pats should have walked away from that in favor of a guy that played five quarters of football. And Brady has been playing for 60 cents on the dollar to boot. 

 

[bostonfred]

I said it before but if a genie gave me my choice between one guaranteed Superbowl win with Jimmy g or a chance at one more with Brady, I'll take the chance at one with Brady without hesitating.  The difference between winning a sixth title with Brady or a sixth title with some other qb is easily worth mortgaging the future. 

I'd trade two guaranteed titles with Jimmy g for two elite Brady years and one more good one, then let the chips fall where they may. 

I understand why a fan who had never seen their team win a title would feel differently and there was a time I'd have felt differently too. Ask an older dolphins fan if they'd have traded all of their success since Marino... well that's not a good example.  But think about how meaningful one title would have been for him.  Think about how meaningful a sixth ring would be for Brady.  A record that will likely never be broken. It's the difference between Lemieux and Gretzky. 

I don't care if the article is true or not I think Brady should have wanted to keep playing and Kraft should have fought for him to. I can understand why belichick might want to set the franchise up with the next guy but Brady gives him s chance to further cement his legacy too. I'm glad they stuck with Brady. 

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

I don't think genies work that way.

 

[Hankmoody]

Why don't you post some opinions or points, or take a walk? Tolling does not help anyone here. 

How are those Ryan Trophies (AFC Championship Loss Trophies) working our for you? To you polish them with pride? 

I post opinions, I don't just troll people. He was just a bitter fan coming on to goat with no take. 

And here is the crux of it. Poor Jets fan...the only thing worse as maybe being a Browns fan....

As a wise poster once wrote, irony is indeed ironic.

 

[Guest]

The New York Daily News reports Bill Belichick could have interest in coaching the Giants.

This comes after reports of a growing rift between Belichick, owner Robert Kraft, and Tom Brady. Belichick spent the first six years of his career as the Giants' defensive coordinator. The Patriots have denied any fallout with Belichick, but there's rumblings he could force his way out of New England. It would ultimately be surprising if Belichick didn't return to the Patriots in 2018.

 

[rockaction]

The New York Daily News reports Bill Belichick could have interest in coaching the Giants.

This comes after reports of a growing rift between Belichick, owner Robert Kraft, and Tom Brady. Belichick spent the first six years of his career as the Giants' defensive coordinator. The Patriots have denied any fallout with Belichick, but there's rumblings he could force his way out of New England. It would ultimately be surprising if Belichick didn't return to the Patriots in 2018.

If Belichick goes to the Giants, does that mean they lose every Super Bowl they play to the Patriots? 

Just asking for a friend.  

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I said it before but if a genie gave me my choice between one guaranteed Superbowl win with Jimmy g or a chance at one more with Brady, I'll take the chance at one with Brady without hesitating.  The difference between winning a sixth title with Brady or a sixth title with some other qb is easily worth mortgaging the future. 

I'd trade two guaranteed titles with Jimmy g for two elite Brady years and one more good one, then let the chips fall where they may. 

I understand why a fan who had never seen their team win a title would feel differently and there was a time I'd have felt differently too. Ask an older dolphins fan if they'd have traded all of their success since Marino... well that's not a good example.  But think about how meaningful one title would have been for him.  Think about how meaningful a sixth ring would be for Brady.  A record that will likely never be broken. It's the difference between Lemieux and Gretzky. 

I don't care if the article is true or not I think Brady should have wanted to keep playing and Kraft should have fought for him to. I can understand why belichick might want to set the franchise up with the next guy but Brady gives him s chance to further cement his legacy too. I'm glad they stuck with Brady. 

Which is exactly what a Green Bay fan would have said in 2007 if you'd told them that Favre still had an elite 4200 yard, 33 TD, 7 INT season still in the tank.

And yet now, even with that knowledge, they'd slap their 2007 self in the face for letting their emotion get the best of them back then and thank all the gods that they didn't have that knowledge at the time.

Again, this report that Belichick was against moving Garoppolo makes so much sense, because he's better than that.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Would you cut the reigning SB MVP and likely the current regular season MVP (who could be on his way to the SB again)?

You asked me that, and I answered in detail, but you ignored it and just keep asking it over and over.

There is no way Brady has as much left in the tank as Peyton did (3 elite seasons, NFL record for passing TDs in a season) and barring a flukey botched surgery ending Luck's career early, even Indy doesn't regret letting HIM walk.  He may not even have as much left in the tank as Favre did (1 elite season) and there certainly aren't any Packers fans wishing they had traded the rest of Rodgers' (who had done less on the field than Garoppolo at this point) career to get that last elite Favre year in Green Bay.

 

[Nipsey]

Belichick to the Giants would be GREAT for the NFL. I'm all for it.

 

[zoonation]

Go read all the other threads on Jimmy G from the past few years. Most felt he was a bust in waiting. Yet now he is a lock Hall of Famer. How quickly the narrative changes. No one knew much of anything when he was traded. Basically five quarters of play to go on. 

I love your fair objective takes in here but this is disingenuous.  Bill clearly thought Jimmy was the future and his hand was forced.  

I agree everything is speculation going forward, but you have to concede that imo 

 

[zoonation]

I said it before but if a genie gave me my choice between one guaranteed Superbowl win with Jimmy g or a chance at one more with Brady, I'll take the chance at one with Brady without hesitating.  The difference between winning a sixth title with Brady or a sixth title with some other qb is easily worth mortgaging the future. 

I'd trade two guaranteed titles with Jimmy g for two elite Brady years and one more good one, then let the chips fall where they may. 

I understand why a fan who had never seen their team win a title would feel differently and there was a time I'd have felt differently too. Ask an older dolphins fan if they'd have traded all of their success since Marino... well that's not a good example.  But think about how meaningful one title would have been for him.  Think about how meaningful a sixth ring would be for Brady.  A record that will likely never be broken. It's the difference between Lemieux and Gretzky. 

I don't care if the article is true or not I think Brady should have wanted to keep playing and Kraft should have fought for him to. I can understand why belichick might want to set the franchise up with the next guy but Brady gives him s chance to further cement his legacy too. I'm glad they stuck with Brady. 

I get you feeling like this but business doesn’t work this way.  

 

[Guest]

I love your fair objective takes in here but this is disingenuous.  Bill clearly thought Jimmy was the future and his hand was forced.  

I agree everything is speculation going forward, but you have to concede that imo 

That doesn't make sense. So, Belichick came to this revelation after NE extended Brady's contract, Feb 2016? So, Belichick forgot that Brady would cost NE 14 million in dead cap if they got rid of Brady in 2018? Evidently, Jimmy G forced NE's hand by wanting starter's money in 2018. On top of that, when Jimmy G was traded Belichick called him a good QB and great teammate. Some praise for someone he thinks is a GOD.

 

[Godsbrother]

Yeah. 

If they don’t get someone else as good as Garoppolo their future is screwed. 

Good qbs aren’t easy to come by. 

Green Bay had to do it with Favre. 

Sorry but there is no way the Pats even considered trading Brady.  As good as Favre was he didn't have anywhere close the legacy that TB has with the Patriots and TB is still playing at an elite level.

The only option they had to keep JG was to franchise him or renegotiate Brady's and other players contracts to sign JG to a long term contract, something he was unlikely to do with TB still playing at a high level and no plans to retire.

The bottom line is that JG came a couple of years too soon for the Patriots

 

[rockaction]

The bottom line is that JG came a couple of years too soon for the Patriots

Yeah, it was really an intractable situation.  

 

[Bojang0301]

Sorry but there is no way the Pats even considered trading Brady.  As good as Favre was he didn't have anywhere close the legacy that TB has with the Patriots and TB is still playing at an elite level.

The only option they had to keep JG was to franchise him or renegotiate Brady's and other players contracts to sign JG to a long term contract, something he was unlikely to do with TB still playing at a high level and no plans to retire.

The bottom line is that JG came a couple of years too soon for the Patriots

I would bet anything BB thought about moving on from Brady. He’s seen and understands history. The 49ers didn’t regret moving on from Montana, the Packers didn’t regret moving on from Favre, the Pats will regret every snap from the rest of Garappolo’s career and I will love hearing the silence from these TB12 cry babies after he puts a stain on his legacy by ruining the franchise for a decade and driving the best coach in the history of the NFL out of town for his age 41 season. It will be something the NFL Network makes documentaries about years from now and as great and as high their run was, the fall from grace is looking pretty catastrophic.

 

[jabarony]

All this drama is because BB and Kraft know the gravy train is over once Brady retires. Jimmy G isn't Brady either. The shark move would be for BB to leave the Pats once Brady retires and go to another team with a franchise QB. 

Phil Jackson style?  I don't think BB has to do that.  He seems like an actual great coach, who could do well with any QB.

I wouldn't mind them both retiring after the year though and leaving Kraft with a trash team.

 

[Tool]

I would bet anything BB thought about moving on from Brady. He’s seen and understands history. The 49ers didn’t regret moving on from Montana, the Packers didn’t regret moving on from Favre, the Pats will regret every snap from the rest of Garappolo’s career and I will love hearing the silence from these TB12 cry babies after he puts a stain on his legacy by ruining the franchise for a decade and driving the best coach in the history of the NFL out of town for his age 41 season. It will be something the NFL Network makes documentaries about years from now and as great and as high their run was, the fall from grace is looking pretty catastrophic.

And why should Brady care what happens to the Pats after he leaves?

 

[JohnnyU]

 He seems like an actual great coach, who could do well with any QB.

Tell that to Cleveland.

 

[Snickers]

Tell that to Cleveland.

He did a pretty good job in Cleveland, had the team in the playoffs (beat the Pats in the first round). The rails came off after they announced the move to Baltimore but that was an impossible situation for any coach.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Tell that to Cleveland.

He took the Browns to the playoffs - imagine that?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I hate the Pats but anyone that doesn’t see Belichick as the greatest football coach (and probably any sport) of all time is not paying attention. 

Obviously Brady is also one of the all-time greats (and some would say the greatest) but I think Bill has more to do with the sustained success than Brady.

 

[JuniorNB]

I hate the Pats but anyone that doesn’t see Belichick as the greatest football coach (and probably any sport) of all time is not paying attention. 

Obviously Brady is also one of the all-time greats (and some would say the greatest) but I think Bill has more to do with the sustained success than Brady.

I think it was just a perfect match and that Brady would not be considered one of the top all time quarterbacks nor would Bilichek be considered one of the top all-time coaches if it weren't for their pairing.  I think they would have both been successful on their own, but not near the discussion of best ever.

 

[hardcoredx]

I disagree, we already know what BB is without NE- a failure in Cleveland. We don't know about Brady, but his ability to stay healthy for this long is certainly a HOF'er trait. I have 

 

[lod001]

I disagree, we already know what BB is without NE- a failure in Cleveland. We don't know about Brady, but his ability to stay healthy for this long is certainly a HOF'er trait. I have 

So hypothetically you are saying that if Belicheck had Steve Young or Jim Kelly or Aikman or even Favre, he would have sucked in the mid 90s with Cleveland?

 

[hardcoredx]

So hypothetically you are saying that if Belicheck had Steve Young or Jim Kelly or Aikman or even Favre, he would have sucked in the mid 90s with Cleveland?

Nope. I'm pretty sure any top tier or even above average coach would win. It amazes me without fail how many people overrate coaches in these forums (e.g Phil Jackson). Last time I checked, players play - not the coaches. 

 

[Guest]

I would bet anything BB thought about moving on from Brady. He’s seen and understands history. The 49ers didn’t regret moving on from Montana, the Packers didn’t regret moving on from Favre, the Pats will regret every snap from the rest of Garappolo’s career and I will love hearing the silence from these TB12 cry babies after he puts a stain on his legacy by ruining the franchise for a decade and driving the best coach in the history of the NFL out of town for his age 41 season. It will be something the NFL Network makes documentaries about years from now and as great and as high their run was, the fall from grace is looking pretty catastrophic.

Understand history? He also knows about the salary cap. The decision could have been executed in 2014 or 2015. After extending Brady it would be difficult without the help of Jimmy G. Fans and media always loves the player that isn't playing. NE controlled Jimmy G's contract for 4 years. I find it laughable that this is the last straw for Belichick. 

 

[Anarchy99]

I disagree, we already know what BB is without NE- a failure in Cleveland. We don't know about Brady, but his ability to stay healthy for this long is certainly a HOF'er trait. I have 

I guess people can disagree what is a success and what is a failure is. BB inherited a 3-13 team that ranked 27th in points scored and 28th in points allowed. In a few years, he got them to the playoffs with an 11-5 record and ranked 11th in scoring and 1st in points allowed. They went from a -234 point differential to a +136 point differential, a scoring swing of 370 points. The reconstituted Browns have had two winning seasons and one playoff appearance (since 1999) with a combined 88-216 record (.289). So sure, if every year is graded on a pass / fail basis on winning the Super Bowl or not, then BB failed in his time in CLE.

 

[Guest]

The Giants are going to give Belichick Jon Gruden level of money.  He's gone.

5 million for the first 5 years? You believe the hacks in the media way too much. Something he said in 2008 or 2009 is taken as he wants to go back to the Giants? The perfect place for Belichick in an executive position with the Naval Academy.  

 

[Anarchy99]

The Giants are going to give Belichick Jon Gruden level of money.  He's gone.

For starters, I don't see BB going anywhere. The reporter even admitted he has no knowledge of BB leaving, no one told him that, and it's the reporter's speculation that it's something that could maybe, possible happen at some point in the future. And BB is still locked up an under contract with NE. I don't see how BB just waltzes in and signs up with the Giants or any other team.

 

[JohnnyU]

I guess people can disagree what is a success and what is a failure is. BB inherited a 3-13 team that ranked 27th in points scored and 28th in points allowed. In a few years, he got them to the playoffs with an 11-5 record and ranked 11th in scoring and 1st in points allowed. They went from a -234 point differential to a +136 point differential, a scoring swing of 370 points. The reconstituted Browns have had two winning seasons and one playoff appearance (since 1999) with a combined 88-216 record (.289). So sure, if every year is graded on a pass / fail basis on winning the Super Bowl or not, then BB failed in his time in CLE.

What kind of years did he have in Cleveland after that one playoff appearance?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Nope. I'm pretty sure any top tier or even above average coach would win. It amazes me without fail how many people overrate coaches in these forums (e.g Phil Jackson). Last time I checked, players play - not the coaches. 

You really don't understand the different between players who are coached well and those who are not? 

The Patriots win so many close games because of how well coached they are when it comes to situational awareness.   Belichick's attention to detail is just ridiculous.  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What kind of years did he have in Cleveland after that one playoff appearance?

Just 1 season, the front office announced they were moving, the team collapsed to 5-11 and then they reset in Baltimore. It's been well documented.

 

[Anarchy99]

What kind of years did he have in Cleveland after that one playoff appearance?

He stayed one more year that did not come close to the year before. They started the year 3-1. However, part way through the season, the team announced they were moving to Baltimore and becoming the Ravens. The Browns mailed it in the rest of the season and went 1-7 in their last 8 games. Ultimately the team didn't win and BB was bounced, but it was a very unusual situation.

 

[JohnnyU]

Just 1 season, the front office announced they were moving, the team collapsed to 5-11 and then they reset in Baltimore. It's been well documented.

Thanks, didn't want to look it up

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Nope. I'm pretty sure any top tier or even above average coach would win. It amazes me without fail how many people overrate coaches in these forums (e.g Phil Jackson). Last time I checked, players play - not the coaches. 

In football coaching is way more important than in other sports. 

Bellichick hardly failed in Cleveland. He had them in the playoffs. He was 11-5 during the season Brady missed and 3-1 in 2016 without Brady. Of course having Brady is a large part of his success, but he’s a great coach.

 

[JohnnyU]

In football coaching is way more important than in other sports. 

Bellichick hardly failed in Cleveland. He had them in the playoffs. He was 11-5 during the season Brady missed and 3-1 in 2016 without Brady. Of course having Brady is a large part of his success, but he’s a great coach.

Have your team sign someone like Pagano and then you can appreciate having a good coach.

 

[Guest]

He stayed one more year that did not come close to the year before. They started the year 3-1. However, part way through the season, the team announced they were moving to Baltimore and becoming the Ravens. The Browns mailed it in the rest of the season and went 1-7 in their last 8 games. Ultimately the team didn't win and BB was bounced, but it was a very unusual situation.

What's amazing is according to Peter King, Modell didn't want Kraft to hire Belichick. He told Kraft to watch Belichick's pressers. Paul Brown thought Walsh wouldn't be a good head coach.

 

[JuniorNB]

The Giants are going to give Belichick Jon Gruden level of money.  He's gone.

I can't see Belichick doing that. He could greatly diminished his legendary status by going there. He's been very fortunate to have Tom Brady most of his career. Check out his record without him. Going into the NFC East without Brady, and facing two of the best young quarterbacks in the game in Wentz and Prescott?  I just don't see him doing that. If he comes out of there with a few 7-9 seasons, it will put a huge asterisk on his genius