ESPN.com ranking of every Super Bowl team (1 Viewer)

[Power Monster]

The 85 Bears really should top that list.

Go read why number 1 is number 1. The 85 bears did not have that good of offense. McMahon, pulease. Hack.

That Bears team would have eaten the 49ers alive and if I can recall they put a hammer on Montana in 85. No team was going to stop that defense.

 

[My_Favorite_Team_is]

New England was the first Wildcard team I believe in NFL history to make the Superbowl.

Nope. 1980 Raiders.

New England was the first wild card to win three on the road in order to make it to the super bowl. and a step further...Pittsburgh was the only wild card to win three on the road and then win the superbowl.

 

[Sabertooth]

96 Packers a bit high IMO but it's an interesting article, thanks for posting

Number 1 offense and number 1 defense in the league. Most dominant defensive player of all time and one of the top QB's of all time in their respective primes. Won the Super Bowl by 14 points and all playoff games by 14 points.

 

[thesurfshop19]

I think the closest match to the 1998 Broncos on the list is the 2004 Patriots, who I think were slightly better. The 2004 Patriots, statistically and tactically, match up very closely to the 1998 Jets who the Broncos beat in the AFC Championship (and easily could have lost to if not for a bunch of fluky plays) but Tom Brady over Testaverde, even given Vinny's great year, is a huge advantage.

Tom Brady, 2004: 288/474, 60.8%, 3,692 yards, 7.8 Y/A, 28 TD/14 INT, 92.6 QBR, 14-2 recordTestaverde, 1998: 259/421, 61.5%, 3,256, 7.7 Y/A, 27 TD/7 INT, 101.6 QBR, 12-1 recordWhere exactly is the huge advantage for Brady?

I knew you'd jump on this the moment I posted it. Frankly, the 1998 Testaverde was so much better than the Average Testaverde that while he was incredible, it's just hard for me to put him in the same category.He definitely cut up the Broncos' defense that day, though. That was a great team.

 

[thesurfshop19]

1996:

The '96 Packers team was truly special.

1997:

The '97 Packers team was lucky to make the Super Bowl.

Good post.I don't necessarily agree with everything you write, but you have a lot of great points.

I think following a Super Bowl win with a Super Bowl appearance is harder than getting to the Super Bowl in the first place. Only a handful of teams have done it, and I can't think of a lot of teams that looked better the second time (some that did: 1989 49ers, 1998 Broncos, 2004 Patriots).

All that said, I've heard quotes from Favre saying they were more confident in 1997 late in the season. They finally knocked off the Cowboys that year, getting past that hurdle they'd never beaten before. And while they lost Desmond Howard, they had more consistent play at the skill positions (1 1000-yd RB, 2 1000-yd WRs after 0 of each the previous year).

The fact that they made it back to the Bowl with the target on their back counts a lot in my mind, but I see your point.

 

[Bri]

96 Packers a bit high IMO but it's an interesting article, thanks for posting

Number 1 offense and number 1 defense in the league. Most dominant defensive player of all time and one of the top QB's of all time in their respective primes. Won the Super Bowl by 14 points and all playoff games by 14 points.

I'm not saying they weren't great I just thought the ranking was a little high. It's not uncommon for Supe winners to have the top D or top O so that minimizes the accomplishment in this situation. Reggie was awesome but outside of him, no one on that D really bowls me over.

 

[saintsfan]

The list is OK, although I'm not sure both of the Bronco Super Bowl teams should be in the top 20.

I'm guessing that their relatively suspect defense is the main argument here, right? I think that's a legit point and one that the Broncos have generally been able to avoid because their defense came together at the right time in both seasons (particularly in 1998 when they allowed 4 field goals, a 1-yd TD drive following a blocked punt in the AFCC, a kickoff return TD in the Super Bowl, and a garbage time TD in the Super Bowl).I do think that the 1998 team belongs for sure. A 13-0 start as a defending champion is pretty impressive -- a feat that may never again be duplicated.In my opinion, the 1998 Broncos also have to be ahead of the 1999 Rams. They played a tougher schedule while being the defending champs, had a better record, and beat better teams in their final 2 playoff games by much more convincing margins.I think the closest match to the 1998 Broncos on the list is the 2004 Patriots, who I think were slightly better. The 2004 Patriots, statistically and tactically, match up very closely to the 1998 Jets who the Broncos beat in the AFC Championship (and easily could have lost to if not for a bunch of fluky plays) but Tom Brady over Testaverde, even given Vinny's great year, is a huge advantage.The 1998 Broncos also have to be considered fairly similar to the 1996 Packers, given that the two teams met in 1997 and the Broncos won.

I'm not saying neither team belonged. But, putting both just seems like they are giving extra points for being closer to the modern day. I would agree that the '98 team belongs.

 

[saintsfan]

The list is OK, although I'm not sure both of the Bronco Super Bowl teams should be in the top 20.

Also, any NFC team that won the Super Bowl in the 80's and into the early 90's are going to be a bit overrated compared to the teams in the 70's because the AFC was a joke in the 80's and into the early 90's.

While the 1989 49ers get points for drubbing their opposition in the playoffs, in the Super Bowl, they played a pitiful Broncos team, while the '78 Steelers, for example, had to beat the '78 Cowboys who were an all time great team.

For my money, the '78 Steelers were the best team of all time because they beat the best team in the Super Bowl. Even the '85 Bears, as dominant as they were, beat a pathetic Pats squad in the Super Bowl. Let's face it, that Pats team had no business in the Super Bowl. They got lucky and beat the only team that could give the Bears a game that season, Dan Marino and the Dolphins.

Anyway, with the possible exception of not having the '78 Steelers #1, the list is pretty solid.

Give the Pats their due. You do not travel on the road THREE consecutive weeks, win all three games convincingly, AND make a SuperBowl appearance without being a pretty good team.New England was the first Wildcard team I believe in NFL history to make the Superbowl.

I meant pathetic by Super Bowl standards. Obviously, they were a pretty good team. They didn't have a prayer against the Bears, though, and everybody knew it.I still say, considering the team they beat in the Super Bowl, the '78 Steelers were the best I've ever seen.

 

[Sabertooth]

96 Packers a bit high IMO but it's an interesting article, thanks for posting

Number 1 offense and number 1 defense in the league. Most dominant defensive player of all time and one of the top QB's of all time in their respective primes. Won the Super Bowl by 14 points and all playoff games by 14 points.

I'm not saying they weren't great I just thought the ranking was a little high. It's not uncommon for Supe winners to have the top D or top O so that minimizes the accomplishment in this situation. Reggie was awesome but outside of him, no one on that D really bowls me over.

But only the 72 Phins and the 96 Packers had both. Leroy Butler was awesome as well.

 

[Bri]

96 Packers a bit high IMO but it's an interesting article, thanks for posting

Number 1 offense and number 1 defense in the league. Most dominant defensive player of all time and one of the top QB's of all time in their respective primes. Won the Super Bowl by 14 points and all playoff games by 14 points.

I'm not saying they weren't great I just thought the ranking was a little high. It's not uncommon for Supe winners to have the top D or top O so that minimizes the accomplishment in this situation. Reggie was awesome but outside of him, no one on that D really bowls me over.

But only the 72 Phins and the 96 Packers had both. Leroy Butler was awesome as well.

ahhh combined...not enough coffee yet, I gotcha. I see your point

 

[saintsfan]

The 85 Bears really should top that list.

Go read why number 1 is number 1. The 85 bears did not have that good of offense. McMahon, pulease. Hack.

That Bears team would have eaten the 49ers alive and if I can recall they put a hammer on Montana in 85. No team was going to stop that defense.

And the 49ers beat them in '84. What's your point?

 

[Sabertooth]

The 85 Bears really should top that list.

Go read why number 1 is number 1. The 85 bears did not have that good of offense. McMahon, pulease. Hack.

That Bears team would have eaten the 49ers alive and if I can recall they put a hammer on Montana in 85. No team was going to stop that defense.

And the 49ers beat them in '84. What's your point?

Is an unstoppable defense similar to an immovable offense?

 

[thesurfshop19]

I'm not saying neither team belonged. But, putting both just seems like they are giving extra points for being closer to the modern day. I would agree that the '98 team belongs.

Fair point, and my bad for misreading! The 1997 team is borderline, IMO. One thing in their favor is that it was only a 24-22 loss @ Arrowhead that prevented the Broncos from being the #1 seed in the AFC and the prohibitive favorites to make it to the Super Bowl. That probably cost them 3 or 4 points for the Super Bowl line (which started at GB -14 and ended at GB -11.5 IIRC). They were also 13-3 the year before and 14-2 the year after.On the other hand ... not many Wild Card teams have won titles. And there have been more dominant runs than 14-10, 24-21, and 31-24 in their last 3 playoff games. They also dodged a lot of bullets (Elvis Grbac instead of Rich Gannon, Kordell Stewart instead of a real QB) so it's hard to see them as an all-time team.They probably get too much credit for their regular season statistical performance. The numbers actually are, relative to the rest of the league, slightly better than the 1998 team. I'd probably knock them out of the top 20 though.

 

[Fullback Fro]

The 85 Bears really should top that list.

Go read why number 1 is number 1. The 85 bears did not have that good of offense. McMahon, pulease. Hack.

That Bears team would have eaten the 49ers alive and if I can recall they put a hammer on Montana in 85. No team was going to stop that defense.

Conjecture much?

 

[Power Monster]

The 85 Bears really should top that list.

Go read why number 1 is number 1. The 85 bears did not have that good of offense. McMahon, pulease. Hack.

That Bears team would have eaten the 49ers alive and if I can recall they put a hammer on Montana in 85. No team was going to stop that defense.

Conjecture much?

So I am speculating on what basis Mr Fancy words? Ohhh yeah that 49er game- 183 total yards from the great 49er offense....

 

[Liquid Tension]

1-20

21-40

41-60

61-80

Interesting rankings all over.

What's the biggest surprise/snub?

Thanks for posting this. I found that it was very well done. There are always a few higher and lower, but I thought they did a real good job.

 

[The Jerk]

New England was the first Wildcard team I believe in NFL history to make the Superbowl.

Nope. 1980 Raiders.

You, sir, have a and are correct.

Sorry but you are both wrong.The 1980 Raiders were the first wild card team in the 5 playoff teams per conference format era to make the SB.However, the 1975 Cowboys were a wild card team (the first in the 4 playoff teams per conference format era) that also made the SB.But the 1969 Chiefs were the first wild card team to make (and actually win) the SB.The 1975 Cowboys lost SB X to the Steelers as a wild card. St. Louis Cardinals won the division.And the 1969 Chiefs won SB IV (over the Vikings) as an AFL wild card. Oakland Raiders won the division.So the Cowboys were the first post-merger wild card team, but the Chiefs were the first true non-division winner to appear in the Super Bowl.

 

[The Jerk]

Some stats inspired by earlier comments on the 1972 Dolphins, 1991 Redskins, etc.:

What do the following Super Bowl champions have in common?

1972 Miami Dolphins

1976 Oakland Raiders

1978 Pittsburgh Steelers

1982 Washington Redskins

1985 Chicago Bears

1989 San Francisco 49ers

1990 New York Giants

1991 Washington Redskins

Answer: All of these teams beat every team on their schedule that finished at 2 games over .500 or worse. The difference between the Dolphins and the others is that every team on the Dolphins 1972 regular season schedule finished 8-6 (or 7-5-2) or worse. Here's the stat breakdown:

1972 Miami Dolphins 14-0 (14 games)1976 Oakland Raiders 9-0 (14 games)1978 Pittsburgh Steelers 12-0 (16 games)1982 Washington Redskins 8-0 (9 games -- strike)1985 Chicago Bears 10-0 (16 games)1989 San Francisco 49ers 11-0 (16 games)1990 New York Giants 9-0 (16 games)1991 Washington Redskins 8-0 (16 games)The NFL made immense changes during the 1970s, with nearly all of the most important changes occurring in 1974. Here are some of the major differences between the modern NFL and the NFL of the 1972 Dolphins.No numbering system existed for jerseys (until 1973).

Goal posts were on the goal line (moved back in 1974).

No overtime in regular season (added in 1974).

Kickoffs were from the 40-yard line (moved to the 35-yard line in 1974 and eventually to the 30-yard line in 1994)

Holding was a 15-yard penalty (until 1974).

Clearly, the NFL was very different in 1972 than it is today. By the 1974 season, it was much more similar to today's game. Five changes in 1978 made another quantum leap and began what I consider the modern NFL era:

1. A seventh on-field official was added (unchanged since 1978).

2. The "Mel Blount Rule" establishing modern pass interference/illegal contact was enacted in 1978, greatly opening up the passing game.

3. The regular season expanded to 16 games.

4. The playoffs expanded to include two wild cards per conference along with the three division winners (expanded to six playoff teams per conference beginning in 1990).

5. The NFL began scheduling that favored parity in 1978 (which continues to this day, but the impact of which has been lessened by the expansion to eight four-team divisions in 2002 and also increasing player movement).

My motivation for noting all of these rules changes is simply to show the clear difference between the landscape of the NFL in 1972 vs. today. The "perfect season" is still worthy of recognition as a truly amazing accomplishment, but the circumstances in which it was achieved are practically unrecognizable compared to the current era. Another tidbit that reinforces the difference between 1972 and today is that the 1972 Dolphins remain the only Super Bowl champion that did not play a playoff team during the regular season. With the current scheduling format, it's literally impossible for that to happen.

I actually think that the 1972 Dolphins deserve to be ranked among the greatest teams in NFL history. As the argument goes, they beat every team they faced, and you can't do better than that. The problem is that so many of their players, coaches and fans -- and many in the media as well -- then extend this argument to mean that no losses equals best team and there's no room to argument, period. It's so obviously oversimplistic.

What gets missed is that there have been many teams whose greatness is probably underappreciated because they played a much more challenging schedule on their road to Super Bowl supremacy.

Try this question out:

Name the five Super Bowl champions whose opponents combined for a regular season winning percentage above .500:

1979 Pittsburgh Steelers 135-121 .527 12-41988 San Francisco 49ers 131-125 .512 10-61980 Oakland Raiders 130-126 .508 11-51991 Washington Redskins 129-127 .504 14-21996 Green Bay Packers 129-127 .504 14-2Bonus follow-up question:Name the only Super Bowl champion whose opponents combined for a regular season winning percentage of .500 or better, when adjusted for perfection (i.e., the records the opponents would have had if the Super Bowl champion had gone undefeated, like the 1972 Dolphins):

1979 Pittsburgh Steelers opponents adjusted record: 129-127 .504

In particular, the 1979 Steelers, having played the toughest schedule of any Super Bowl champion, and the 1991 Redskins and 1996 Packers, by virtue of their 14-2 records against strong competition, should be more widely recognized for their "single season" greatness alongside the 1972 Dolphins and 1985 Bears.

Edited to fix mistake pointed out by abrecher (thanks)

 

[thesurfshop19]

Jerk - great post! :X

I'm guessing the 1979 Steelers aren't usually brought up since people subconsciously think they're "represented" by virtue of the top-5 1978 team.

The 1991 Redskins are definitely underrated, but I think the 1996 Packers team is properly placed.

Very interesting insights though!

 

[The Jerk]

Jerk - great post! I'm guessing the 1979 Steelers aren't usually brought up since people subconsciously think they're "represented" by virtue of the top-5 1978 team. The 1991 Redskins are definitely underrated, but I think the 1996 Packers team is properly placed.Very interesting insights though!

I don't think the Steelers had any one team stand out from their four championship years. Most people in the organization believe the 1976 team might have been the best. In the final nine regular season games of 1976, the Steelers recorded five shutouts and allowed 28 total points (3.1 per game). However, due to a slow start, injuries to Bleier and Harris, and a great Raider team, they lost in the AFC championship.The 1975 and 1978 Steelers accomplished the most: both were 2-loss regular season teams who went on to win the Super Bowl.The 1978 Steelers are most likely the standard-bearer for the entire dynasty because the defense was still strong (although not quite up to the standards of 1974-76) but the offense was now much better with the dramatic improvement of the passing game. They also beat an excellent Dallas team in one of the best Super Bowls ever played.Here's a couple of bonus stats since you liked the others so much...The 1975 Steelers played six teams in the regular season that were 10-4 or better, and no Super Bowl champion before or since has played more teams that were 6 games over .500 or better (10-4 or equivalent for a 14 game season, and 11-5 or equivalent in a 16 game season). Four other teams have equaled this accomplishment, albeit in 16 game seasons. Here's the entire list:1975 Steelers (14 games)1979 Steelers1980 Raiders1991 Redskins2005 SteelersConversely, the 1966 Packers, 1971 Cowboys and 1972 Dolphins (there they are again) are the only Super Bowl champions in a non-strike season to play no teams that were 6 games over .500 or better.The following Super Bowl champions played 10 or more teams in the regular season that finished at .500 or better (all 16 games seasons):1979 Steelers (10)1980 Raiders (11)1991 Redskins (10)1993 Cowboys (10)1995 Cowboys (10)2004 Patriots (10)ETA: The 1979 Steelers played ten teams in the regular season that finished OVER .500 -- no other Super Bowl champion had more than 8 regular season opponents who finished above .500.

 

[AB in DC]

Answer: All of these teams beat every team on their schedule that finished at 2 games over .500 or better.

I think you mean "or worse".

 

[Byron_nyc]

91 Skins are ranked too low, at #10.

The writers here say "we can't see a team with Rypien ranked higher than 10," -- are they ranking quarterbacks' careers, or super bowl teams>

 

[The_Man]

91 Skins are ranked too low, at #10. The writers here say "we can't see a team with Rypien ranked higher than 10," -- are they ranking quarterbacks' careers, or super bowl teams>

Good point -- especially since Rypien's QB rating that season was 98.0 -- higher than most of the QBs on the list above him.The 86 Giants are wildly overrated at #8. Simms had more INTs than TDs that year for crying out loud.

 

[DrJ]

The 85 Bears really should top that list.

Go read why number 1 is number 1. The 85 bears did not have that good of offense. McMahon, pulease. Hack.

That Bears team would have eaten the 49ers alive and if I can recall they put a hammer on Montana in 85. No team was going to stop that defense.

And the 49ers beat them in '84. What's your point?

Steve Fuller QB'ed that playoff game and was a joke. McMahon wasn't a great QB, but the difference between him and Fuller was a heck of a lot bigger difference than there was between the 84 and 85 49ers.The 85 Bears punished Montana, forced a TON of turnovers, and the 49ers got their rears handed to them that day. Their basis for the argument was that the 85 Bears were suceptible to the pass. The only logical reasoning they could have for that would be the Miami MNF game though. They ranked 6th in pass yardage against, 4th in TD's, and 1st in Int's that season. They faced the #5/#6 passing team in the league in the 49ers and pounded them. They faced the #3 passing attack in Dallas, IN Dallas. And they allowed 0 points on their way to a 44-0 thrashing. They faced the #7 passing team in the NY Jets and allowd 6 points. Phil Simms still talks about how he was scared in that playoff game against them...

 

[The Jerk]

Answer: All of these teams beat every team on their schedule that finished at 2 games over .500 or better.

I think you mean "or worse".

Yeah I did. Thanks.

 

[redman]

Cool poll. I can't quibble with how they ranked the 'Skins teams relative to each other:

'91

'83

'87

'82

'72

I also can't quibble with any of the overall rankings except for the '91 team which was simply too dominant that year not to be ranked higher. They lost only one game that mattered, and that was to a Cowboys team that used an outstanding and creative combination of trick plays and a end-of-half Hail Mary, before going on to win the Super Bowl the following year.

Cool read though. Thanks to the OP for pointing that out.

 

[H.K.]

The NFL made immense changes during the 1970s, with nearly all of the most important changes occurring in 1974. Here are some of the major differences between the modern NFL and the NFL of the 1972 Dolphins....Clearly, the NFL was very different in 1972 than it is today. By the 1974 season, it was much more similar to today's game. Five changes in 1978 made another quantum leap and began what I consider the modern NFL era:1. A seventh on-field official was added (unchanged since 1978).2. The "Mel Blount Rule" establishing modern pass interference/illegal contact was enacted in 1978, greatly opening up the passing game.3. The regular season expanded to 16 games.4. The playoffs expanded to include two wild cards per conference along with the three division winners (expanded to six playoff teams per conference beginning in 1990).5. The NFL began scheduling that favored parity in 1978 (which continues to this day, but the impact of which has been lessened by the expansion to eight four-team divisions in 2002 and also increasing player movement).My motivation for noting all of these rules changes is simply to show the clear difference between the landscape of the NFL in 1972 vs. today. The "perfect season" is still worthy of recognition as a truly amazing accomplishment, but the circumstances in which it was achieved are practically unrecognizable compared to the current era. Another tidbit that reinforces the difference between 1972 and today is that the 1972 Dolphins remain the only Super Bowl champion that did not play a playoff team during the regular season. With the current scheduling format, it's literally impossible for that to happen.

The Dolphins can not be penalized for rule changes after they played.Everything is relative. In 1972 the Dolphins played by the same rules everyone else did at that time. They had no control over any changes after then.One of the big things not mentioned re: 1972 was there were only 26 teams in the league compared to 32 today. Having to be better than six additional teams today to win a Super Bowl is mathematically more challenging than being better than only 25.

 

[The Jerk]

The NFL made immense changes during the 1970s, with nearly all of the most important changes occurring in 1974. Here are some of the major differences between the modern NFL and the NFL of the 1972 Dolphins....Clearly, the NFL was very different in 1972 than it is today. By the 1974 season, it was much more similar to today's game. Five changes in 1978 made another quantum leap and began what I consider the modern NFL era:1. A seventh on-field official was added (unchanged since 1978).2. The "Mel Blount Rule" establishing modern pass interference/illegal contact was enacted in 1978, greatly opening up the passing game.3. The regular season expanded to 16 games.4. The playoffs expanded to include two wild cards per conference along with the three division winners (expanded to six playoff teams per conference beginning in 1990).5. The NFL began scheduling that favored parity in 1978 (which continues to this day, but the impact of which has been lessened by the expansion to eight four-team divisions in 2002 and also increasing player movement).My motivation for noting all of these rules changes is simply to show the clear difference between the landscape of the NFL in 1972 vs. today. The "perfect season" is still worthy of recognition as a truly amazing accomplishment, but the circumstances in which it was achieved are practically unrecognizable compared to the current era. Another tidbit that reinforces the difference between 1972 and today is that the 1972 Dolphins remain the only Super Bowl champion that did not play a playoff team during the regular season. With the current scheduling format, it's literally impossible for that to happen.

The Dolphins can not be penalized for rule changes after they played.Everything is relative. In 1972 the Dolphins played by the same rules everyone else did at that time. They had no control over any changes after then.One of the big things not mentioned re: 1972 was there were only 26 teams in the league compared to 32 today. Having to be better than six additional teams today to win a Super Bowl is mathematically more challenging than being better than only 25.

H.K.,I wasn't intending to penalize any team. I'm just pointing out factual differences between football circa 1972 and today. I think it's fair to say the game changed most dramatically between 1972 and the late 1970's. Just think about the offenses in the early 1970s vs. Air Coryell and Bill Walsh, then compare them to the last five years. Younger NFL fans might not know how much was different about the league in 1972. I think it's legitimate -- and hopefully thought provoking to some -- to point it out.

 

[Tom Servo]

The NFL made immense changes during the 1970s, with nearly all of the most important changes occurring in 1974. Here are some of the major differences between the modern NFL and the NFL of the 1972 Dolphins....Clearly, the NFL was very different in 1972 than it is today. By the 1974 season, it was much more similar to today's game. Five changes in 1978 made another quantum leap and began what I consider the modern NFL era:1. A seventh on-field official was added (unchanged since 1978).2. The "Mel Blount Rule" establishing modern pass interference/illegal contact was enacted in 1978, greatly opening up the passing game.3. The regular season expanded to 16 games.4. The playoffs expanded to include two wild cards per conference along with the three division winners (expanded to six playoff teams per conference beginning in 1990).5. The NFL began scheduling that favored parity in 1978 (which continues to this day, but the impact of which has been lessened by the expansion to eight four-team divisions in 2002 and also increasing player movement).My motivation for noting all of these rules changes is simply to show the clear difference between the landscape of the NFL in 1972 vs. today. The "perfect season" is still worthy of recognition as a truly amazing accomplishment, but the circumstances in which it was achieved are practically unrecognizable compared to the current era. Another tidbit that reinforces the difference between 1972 and today is that the 1972 Dolphins remain the only Super Bowl champion that did not play a playoff team during the regular season. With the current scheduling format, it's literally impossible for that to happen.

The Dolphins can not be penalized for rule changes after they played.Everything is relative. In 1972 the Dolphins played by the same rules everyone else did at that time. They had no control over any changes after then.One of the big things not mentioned re: 1972 was there were only 26 teams in the league compared to 32 today. Having to be better than six additional teams today to win a Super Bowl is mathematically more challenging than being better than only 25.

H.K.,I wasn't intending to penalize any team. I'm just pointing out factual differences between football circa 1972 and today. I think it's fair to say the game changed most dramatically between 1972 and the late 1970's. Just think about the offenses in the early 1970s vs. Air Coryell and Bill Walsh, then compare them to the last five years. Younger NFL fans might not know how much was different about the league in 1972. I think it's legitimate -- and hopefully thought provoking to some -- to point it out.

As usual, Jerk, .One other point about the '72 Dolphins. Even though today they would have been the #1 AFC seed, they had to play their divisional playoff game in Pittsburgh because of the way the NFL structured playoffs back then. IIRC, it was the AFC Central's "turn" to host a playoff game, or something like that. If you've got the skinny behind that, I'd appreciate it. After all, that was my first season watching football. I must not be as old as you.

 

[H.K.]

Mr. Servo is correct.

It sounds insane to have a higher seed play on the road in the post-season, but it happened back then.

IMHO the two biggest changes in the NFL have been Free Agency (1989) and Salary Cap (1994).

 

[The Jerk]

As usual, Jerk, .One other point about the '72 Dolphins. Even though today they would have been the #1 AFC seed, they had to play their divisional playoff game in Pittsburgh because of the way the NFL structured playoffs back then. IIRC, it was the AFC Central's "turn" to host a playoff game, or something like that. If you've got the skinny behind that, I'd appreciate it. After all, that was my first season watching football. I must not be as old as you.

Good point, and it also goes to show how long ago this was, and how different the early '70s were from the late '70s.The rule was changed to assign home field in the playoffs based on better regular season record in 1975.

 

[The Jerk]

Mr. Servo is correct.It sounds insane to have a higher seed play on the road in the post-season, but it happened back then.IMHO the two biggest changes in the NFL have been Free Agency (1989) and Salary Cap (1994).

Like I said to Tom, Miami @ Pittsburgh in 1972 just goes to show how different the league was in 1972... how "not modern" if you will.I agree that off the field, the two items you've listed have had a major impact. However, I still think the on-field rules changes from 1974-78 combined with the scheduling of division winners vs. division winners and last place teams vs. last place teams should not be underestimated. The scheduling was a major factor and was more significant given there was so little player movement in that era.If you want to try to see the difference and how much the NFL changed in just a few years, all you need to do is look at the difference between SB IX and SB XIV. Same team wins (Steelers) but the game has almost completely changed. And it wasn't just the Steelers that changed, but the whole style of play leaguewide. Great conversation -- thanks for your contributions, H.K.

 

[DrJ]

Mr. Servo is correct.It sounds insane to have a higher seed play on the road in the post-season, but it happened back then.IMHO the two biggest changes in the NFL have been Free Agency (1989) and Salary Cap (1994).

Gayle Sayers would tell you that it's when they moved the hash marks, since back in the day they'd put the ball almost on the sideline and the defense only had to cover one side of the formation.

 

[DrJ]

Incidentally, the move in hash marks happened in the 1972 season and for the first time in league history there were 2 1000 yard rushers on the same team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_NFL_season

ETA: 1 season later, OJ Simpson would run for 2K yards...

 

[DrJ]

Here's some pretty significant changes other than that right around that time period.

1974:

An eligible pass receiver can only be contacted once by defenders after the receiver has gone 3 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_NFL_season

1975:

After a fourth down incomplete pass goes in or through the end zone, the other team will take possession at the previous line of scrimmage. Previously, it resulted in a touchback.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_NFL_season

1976:

Players cannot grasp the facemask of an opponent. The penalty for an incidental grasp of the facemask is 5 yards. The penalty for twisting, turning, or pulling the facemask is 15 yards. A player can be ejected from the game if the foul is judged to be vicious and/or flagrant.

A defender is prohibited from running or diving into, or throwing his body against or on a ballcarrier who falls or slips to the ground untouched and makes no attempt to advance, before or after the ball is dead. This is sometimes called as the "Ben Davidson Rule" after the Raiders defender who almost seriously injured quarterback Len Dawson after the Chiefs passer fell to the ground and made no attempt to advance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_NFL_season

1977:

The head slap is outlawed. This change is referred to as the "Deacon Jones Rule"; The Rams defensive end frequently used this technique.

Defenders are only permitted to make contact with receivers once.

Offensive linemen are not allowed to thrust their hands to a defender's neck, face, or head

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_NFL_season

1978:

To open up the passing game, defenders are permitted to make contact with receivers only to a point of five yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Previously, contact was allowed anywhere on the field.

The pass blocking rules were extended to permit extended arms and open hands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_NFL_season

 

[ozark]

01 Pats @ 47 and 01 Rams @ 21 should elicit some interesting responses.

Correct; New England should be ranked FIRST in Corner Backs Holding the WR's and add RB M.Faulk. Pats played a great game of holding; Right, the Rams D should have held them at the end to go to overtime BUT the great Defense Coach that is the flavor of the week, Lovie, did so lovie his cover 2 that Manning with do the same this sunday. Short, under passes.Lovie, gave it away.Go ColtsRams team 2000...............

 

[Limp Ditka]

So where do the '06 Bears end up on this list?

There's no way I could put them below the '79 Rams, but anything above that is fair game IMO.

And while I don't think they were that bad going into this game, that abysmal performace is not going to shine a good light on this team as time goes on.

 

[AB in DC]

Not that low, no way. 75-80 were some pretty awful teams, by Super Bowl standards, and 67-74 were barely passable. I'd probably put them somewhere in the mid-to-lower 60s.

 

[Chase Stuart]

There aren't many teams that ranked in the top 3 in points scored and points allowed. Bears have to be at least in the top 60.

 

[aerolaw]

The NFL made immense changes during the 1970s, with nearly all of the most important changes occurring in 1974. Here are some of the major differences between the modern NFL and the NFL of the 1972 Dolphins....Clearly, the NFL was very different in 1972 than it is today. By the 1974 season, it was much more similar to today's game. Five changes in 1978 made another quantum leap and began what I consider the modern NFL era:1. A seventh on-field official was added (unchanged since 1978).2. The "Mel Blount Rule" establishing modern pass interference/illegal contact was enacted in 1978, greatly opening up the passing game.3. The regular season expanded to 16 games.4. The playoffs expanded to include two wild cards per conference along with the three division winners (expanded to six playoff teams per conference beginning in 1990).5. The NFL began scheduling that favored parity in 1978 (which continues to this day, but the impact of which has been lessened by the expansion to eight four-team divisions in 2002 and also increasing player movement).My motivation for noting all of these rules changes is simply to show the clear difference between the landscape of the NFL in 1972 vs. today. The "perfect season" is still worthy of recognition as a truly amazing accomplishment, but the circumstances in which it was achieved are practically unrecognizable compared to the current era. Another tidbit that reinforces the difference between 1972 and today is that the 1972 Dolphins remain the only Super Bowl champion that did not play a playoff team during the regular season. With the current scheduling format, it's literally impossible for that to happen.

The Dolphins can not be penalized for rule changes after they played.Everything is relative. In 1972 the Dolphins played by the same rules everyone else did at that time. They had no control over any changes after then.One of the big things not mentioned re: 1972 was there were only 26 teams in the league compared to 32 today. Having to be better than six additional teams today to win a Super Bowl is mathematically more challenging than being better than only 25.

H.K.,I wasn't intending to penalize any team. I'm just pointing out factual differences between football circa 1972 and today. I think it's fair to say the game changed most dramatically between 1972 and the late 1970's. Just think about the offenses in the early 1970s vs. Air Coryell and Bill Walsh, then compare them to the last five years. Younger NFL fans might not know how much was different about the league in 1972. I think it's legitimate -- and hopefully thought provoking to some -- to point it out.

As usual, Jerk, .One other point about the '72 Dolphins. Even though today they would have been the #1 AFC seed, they had to play their divisional playoff game in Pittsburgh because of the way the NFL structured playoffs back then. IIRC, it was the AFC Central's "turn" to host a playoff game, or something like that. If you've got the skinny behind that, I'd appreciate it. After all, that was my first season watching football. I must not be as old as you.

 

[aerolaw]

the dolphins played pittsburgh, at pittsburgh in the AFC championship game, in 1972. Do not forget also that the 'fins played from the 5th game on until halftime of that AFC title game with Earl Morall starting at QB. They also played on the road at Minnesota (perennial super bowl team those days) and KC in their first game at Arrowhead, after having beaten them in the playoffs the year before in the then longest game.

Simplistic or not, the measure of success in the NFL is wins/losses, not pollsters or what could have been, or might have been. By the only measure that matters and is in black and white, not gray, the 72 Dolphins, by definition, are the greatest team ever.

 

[The Jerk]

the dolphins played pittsburgh, at pittsburgh in the AFC championship game, in 1972. Do not forget also that the 'fins played from the 5th game on until halftime of that AFC title game with Earl Morall starting at QB. They also played on the road at Minnesota (perennial super bowl team those days) and KC in their first game at Arrowhead, after having beaten them in the playoffs the year before in the then longest game.Simplistic or not, the measure of success in the NFL is wins/losses, not pollsters or what could have been, or might have been. By the only measure that matters and is in black and white, not gray, the 72 Dolphins, by definition, are the greatest team ever.

I don't know what you mean with the phrase "by definition" -- by wins and losses, maybe. If it's your opinion that because the Dolphins did not lose a game they are the greatest team ever, then that's fine. I don't see how that is "by definition" or a fact or anything like that. Perhaps I place more value in the context than you do. While you're correct that the 1972 Dolphins are the only undefeated Super Bowl champion, they're also the only Super Bowl champion who did not face a playoff team during the regualr season. And only the 1999 Rams had opponents with a weaker cumulative regular season record among Super Bowl champions. From a certain statistical perspective, seven other Super Bowl champions managed to achieve the same feat of the 1972 Dolphins -- each defeated all of the teams they faced that finished 8-6 or worse (14 game seasons) or 9-7 or worse (16 game seasons) in the regular season. These teams simply weren't fortunate enough to have their entire regular season schedule fit into that category. To me, if you're going to include facts, then include ALL of the facts.If it's all about the season total of wins and losses, however, then that means that all we need to do is order up the 82 teams who have played in the Super Bowl by their cumulative record, including playoff games. We no longer need to concern ourselves with the caliber of opposition, margin of victory, etc.As an example, even though nearly everyone agrees that the 1989 49ers were the best version of the 1980's San Francisco dynasty, and superior therefore to the 1984 49ers, because the 1984 team went 18-1 and the 1989 team was 17-2, "by definition" the 1984 49ers are better. Some might say that it's only one game difference in record, and other differences between the teams make the 1989 team clearly superior. To that I would say: "Exactly!"Frankly, I don't think there's any way to compare these teams except if we could get a time machine and somehow make appropriate adjustments to the size and speed of the athletes involved... but it's fun to discuss.

 

[aerolaw]

the dolphins played pittsburgh, at pittsburgh in the AFC championship game, in 1972. Do not forget also that the 'fins played from the 5th game on until halftime of that AFC title game with Earl Morall starting at QB. They also played on the road at Minnesota (perennial super bowl team those days) and KC in their first game at Arrowhead, after having beaten them in the playoffs the year before in the then longest game.Simplistic or not, the measure of success in the NFL is wins/losses, not pollsters or what could have been, or might have been. By the only measure that matters and is in black and white, not gray, the 72 Dolphins, by definition, are the greatest team ever.

I don't know what you mean with the phrase "by definition" -- by wins and losses, maybe. If it's your opinion that because the Dolphins did not lose a game they are the greatest team ever, then that's fine. I don't see how that is "by definition" or a fact or anything like that. Perhaps I place more value in the context than you do. While you're correct that the 1972 Dolphins are the only undefeated Super Bowl champion, they're also the only Super Bowl champion who did not face a playoff team during the regualr season. And only the 1999 Rams had opponents with a weaker cumulative regular season record among Super Bowl champions. From a certain statistical perspective, seven other Super Bowl champions managed to achieve the same feat of the 1972 Dolphins -- each defeated all of the teams they faced that finished 8-6 or worse (14 game seasons) or 9-7 or worse (16 game seasons) in the regular season. These teams simply weren't fortunate enough to have their entire regular season schedule fit into that category. To me, if you're going to include facts, then include ALL of the facts.If it's all about the season total of wins and losses, however, then that means that all we need to do is order up the 82 teams who have played in the Super Bowl by their cumulative record, including playoff games. We no longer need to concern ourselves with the caliber of opposition, margin of victory, etc.As an example, even though nearly everyone agrees that the 1989 49ers were the best version of the 1980's San Francisco dynasty, and superior therefore to the 1984 49ers, because the 1984 team went 18-1 and the 1989 team was 17-2, "by definition" the 1984 49ers are better. Some might say that it's only one game difference in record, and other differences between the teams make the 1989 team clearly superior. To that I would say: "Exactly!"Frankly, I don't think there's any way to compare these teams except if we could get a time machine and somehow make appropriate adjustments to the size and speed of the athletes involved... but it's fun to discuss.

you are exactly right..you cant put the teams in a time machine. So if you have an objective standard by which to judge, which you do, its the only valid way to do it. Yes, i think an 18-1 team is better than the 17-2 team, because if they played the same year , the 18-1 team would be better than the 17-2 team. everything else, besides record, is meaningless in the NFL. Interesting side note is that most "experts"believe the 1973 dolphins were superior to the 72 team, however they are not the one's uncorking the bubbly every year. Also interesting to note that there were only 7 other playoff teams that year, when only 8 teams made the postseason, compared to 12 nowSo if record=measure of success..by definition, the best record of all time is the best team of all time.i have to add that the article makes the inane statement that the dolphins passing game was "ordinary". maybe with Morall at qb it was less than spectacular, but Griese to Warfield was the most feared combo of its day and was lethal when necessary. 2 hall of famers do not make for an "ordinary" passing game. Warfield was in jerry rice's class, hamstrung only by the rules they played under at the time.

 

[Challenge Everything]

you are exactly right..you cant put the teams in a time machine. So if you have an objective standard by which to judge, which you do, its the only valid way to do it. Yes, i think an 18-1 team is better than the 17-2 team, because if they played the same year , the 18-1 team would be better than the 17-2 team. everything else, besides record, is meaningless in the NFL. Interesting side note is that most "experts"believe the 1973 dolphins were superior to the 72 team, however they are not the one's uncorking the bubbly every year. Also interesting to note that there were only 7 other playoff teams that year, when only 8 teams made the postseason, compared to 12 nowSo if record=measure of success..by definition, the best record of all time is the best team of all time.i have to add that the article makes the inane statement that the dolphins passing game was "ordinary". maybe with Morall at qb it was less than spectacular, but Griese to Warfield was the most feared combo of its day and was lethal when necessary. 2 hall of famers do not make for an "ordinary" passing game. Warfield was in jerry rice's class, hamstrung only by the rules they played under at the time.

Is a team that goes 8-8 better than a team that goes 7-7-2? Curious.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

the dolphins played pittsburgh, at pittsburgh in the AFC championship game, in 1972.

Question: If the Dolphins were undefeated, why was this game played in Pittsburgh?????

 

[H.K.]

the dolphins played pittsburgh, at pittsburgh in the AFC championship game, in 1972.

Question: If the Dolphins were undefeated, why was this game played in Pittsburgh?????

I believe playoff sites were predetermined by rotating HFA among divisional winners prior to the current seeded format.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

the dolphins played pittsburgh, at pittsburgh in the AFC championship game, in 1972.

Question: If the Dolphins were undefeated, why was this game played in Pittsburgh?????

I believe playoff sites were predetermined by rotating HFA among divisional winners prior to the current seeded format.

thanks

 

[saintsfan]

The 85 Bears really should top that list.

Go read why number 1 is number 1. The 85 bears did not have that good of offense. McMahon, pulease. Hack.

That Bears team would have eaten the 49ers alive and if I can recall they put a hammer on Montana in 85. No team was going to stop that defense.

And the 49ers beat them in '84. What's your point?

Steve Fuller QB'ed that playoff game and was a joke. McMahon wasn't a great QB, but the difference between him and Fuller was a heck of a lot bigger difference than there was between the 84 and 85 49ers.The 85 Bears punished Montana, forced a TON of turnovers, and the 49ers got their rears handed to them that day. Their basis for the argument was that the 85 Bears were suceptible to the pass. The only logical reasoning they could have for that would be the Miami MNF game though. They ranked 6th in pass yardage against, 4th in TD's, and 1st in Int's that season. They faced the #5/#6 passing team in the league in the 49ers and pounded them. They faced the #3 passing attack in Dallas, IN Dallas. And they allowed 0 points on their way to a 44-0 thrashing. They faced the #7 passing team in the NY Jets and allowd 6 points. Phil Simms still talks about how he was scared in that playoff game against them...

Look, all I know is that the 49ers kept going and won two more Super Bowls. Theirs was a dynasty and the Bears was a one year thing.I'll take the best team of a dynasty over a one year team every time. One thing you failed to mention in your statement is that the biggest 49er weapon of them all was only a rookie in 1985. Jerry Rice would have made all the difference. The Bears wouldn't have had a prayer of covering 1989's version of Jerry Rice.It's not like the Bears couldn't be thrown on. Marino did it. They would have blitzed Montana and gotten eaten alive by the quick slant to Rice.